I haven't posted much lately because I have been reading as much as possible trying to get to my next step. Something has to change with my relationship with H, I think my efforts are making it easy for him to continue with this A. I need someone from the outside to look at things and give me some direction. But, I warn you, I am skeptical, hardheaded, and lonely; so this won't be easy for me.

Background: H (31) and I (30) have been married for 3 1/2 years. We don't have children yet. I applied for a new job in a different area so we could improve our standard of living. H was not thrilled but went along with it. He doesn't like the new town now and blames me for his unhappiness to the point of planning to leave me then having an A with a coworker as an escape. D-day was in September. H and I still live together.

Unmet needs according to H: sexual fulfillment (he's right), financial security (he wants me to make enough money so he can pursue more fun activities; our debt is high because we bought a new house and didn't have to pay for housing with my previous job)

Plan A: I started plan A in October after realizing that fighting about the A wasn't working (we didn't argue before D-day). I started in Plan A and did a great job. So great that when we were together it was just like there was no A, but then H would go off with OW and spend the night. It was all I could do to keep myself together and I did some crying to my H. Sometimes he cried too, other times he was annoyed. I contacted OW's H, but he is fed up with her (2nd A) and has filed for divorce. I told two of his four sisters (one admitted her own affair, the other tried to talk to H).

I have been in Plan A for over six months. I know from MB that Plan B is next but I have been able to go there. I am so happy when H is with me that the thought of having day after day without him fells awefull. I have been willing to deal with the affair so I wouldn't be alone. I have struggled so much with asking my H to leave and I just haven't been able to do it. I know what H is doing is wrong, but I can't abandon him when I vowed to be there through better or worse.

H says he doesn't know which way to go. I asked him to stay home everynight out of courtesy to me until he made his decision to stay or leave. He said that was reasonable, but hasn't followed through with it.

Since I knew I was stuck, I read Divorce Busting to learn more about 180's. I have been trying them more so lately. My newest within the last two weeks, is that when H comes back from being with OW all night, I don't question or accuse him. I have just been pleasant. We was taken back the first two times I did this and even asked "Why aren't you mad at me?" I thought this was a good sign and kept it up, especially since OW is always mad at him. Now I feel like I'm just making it too easy for him to stay out all night. However, it has also made me more happier, because I don't get upset about his where-abouts.

I started the month of April with the thought that I would use this month to mentally prepare to tell H to end the affair or leave. Every day I try to convince myself a little more. Somedays I think I could do it tomorrow and other days I think I won't ever do it.

Last night we didn't come home again. I was hurt and disappointed. I need direction and guidance. I'M STUCK!!! and scared and tired and lonely and everything else that comes with this.

Also, should I contact OW's parents about A and should I speak with his friends that already know asking for their assistance? Is it better to do this in writing or in person? When should I do it?

There is so much more on my mind, but I'll start with just this first. Please give your comments.

Sincerely,
firefly

FF73,

You say you are so happy when you two are together? Do you just block out of your mind what he's doing to you and the hurt he's causing you with the OW? I can't imagine being "happy" at any time when H is doing this, no matter how nice or sincere he is when you are together. Enlighten me.

i'm really feeling for you and i'm sure others will respond as well. i'm still new at this and learning but i think it's time for counseling. you didn't mention that this has happened and if it hasn't you need to do this asap! w/someone from MB if at all possible. i'm more inclined to think that if/when you counsel w/MB they would probably say you need to plan B but i am by no means and expert and can't really speak for them. they will be able to give you immediate professional feedback specific to your situation and that is always helpful. prayers to you.

Firefly,
I am 4 years in recovery.

I did a long Plan A, 18 months through our first 6 separations. The beginning of our 4th separation was a little like you are describing, H moved into the downstairs bedroom and we shared the house, but were "separated". I still cooked, did his laundry and he was never out later than 1 am...and after 2 weeks, he moved out and I had never been so glad for a separation!

I think you need to be very careful. You are in reality condoning and supporting his affair. And, in meeting his needs at home and allowing the OW to meet his needs wherever that is...he's actually going to be fairly content with the situation...call it being a cake-eater, call it fence-sitting, call it limbo. He's not likely to end this situation if you are accepting it.

Continue Plan A if you want, but he needs to have his own place if he doesn't come home.

Don't do his laundry, don't cook for him.

You've got to set up the natural consequences. Plan A is not being a doormat, no matter how happy his presence makes you feel, his actions are disrespectful of the one condition you set--that he comes home.

You can contact the OW if you want. Just remember she is not your friend, she is not on your side, she has NO loyalty or feelings for you. She doesn't care about your feelings.

Plus given that he doesn't come home, your H has probably told her that you guys are "about" divorced. It might be interesting to tell her that there is no divorce in action, other than that...what is it you want to communicate to her?

You can ask friends for assistance, but...many WS's friends are unwilling to step in. I wouldn't expect a lot...YOU aren't even willing to tell him staying out all night is wrong.

<small>[ April 08, 2004, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

Firefly -

I'm so glad to hear from you again. I know I told you to go to Plan B, and you probably should.

But I have changed so much by posting here. My WH has been out of the house since July. He has his own place and still with OW. But I had a change of heart when he was offered a retirement incentive.

I called him and told him that I wanted him to have a nice life, because I would always love him. So even though he had turned down the offer, he went in and asked if he could still retire. So now he is going to retire and is so happy.

So I am no one to give advice. But I hope you will keep posting here. It really does change you.

Well, we had a very nice 4-day weekend together. We went to church and visited family and cuddled. It was great. Time with me is time away from her.

But, then the other shoe fell. Late last night he went for drive and came in around 1:30 am to tell me that he was going to go stay with her for a few days while he tries to figure things out. I was devestated but I think I handled it well. I told him that I didn't beg him to marry me and I wouldn't beg him to stay now. I told him that I thought our marriage was built on a solid foundation that could be rebuilt into something new. He said the same things about not being about me, it was more about our financial situation and where we live. I said a prayer for us and our marriage aloud. He then took his bag and left saying he'd be back on Thursday for the appraisal of the house next to us and will either get the rest of his things or come back to me. I stayed up all night crying and praying.

I guess this is where I need to be strong. I have to not let him back until he agrees to end his relationship with her. I am scared and lonely. The thought of going home to an empty house after work hurts so much. I keep telling myself that this is for the better, because now he has made the first move and I just have to respond with requirements for reconcilliation. If I can't get a committment on Thursday, I suppose it will be time to plan B.

The hardest part is that he may never come back and I don't think I am prepared for that. I always thought that if something like this ever happened in my marriage, I would be so much stronger and concrete about ending the relationship. But things are different on the other side.

I keep telling myself that the end isn't here just yet, but I am impatient. How long do I wait? How do I make it through the waiting? Can I fall out of love for him because he left me and then not want him if he wants to return.

I am not angry. I am just HURT and DEVESTATED beyond belief. How could the man who promised to be with me forever have an affair as a way to deal with his unhappiness?

I am tired of playing games. I just our lives back. I want this to be over and our marriage restored. We were planning to get pregnant in September 04. Are my plans for having a family with him over? I don't want to be divorced...I don't believe in divorce! But I don't want to be alone forever!!

I cannot afford counseling so I look to the people here for guidance.

Firefly - Most do not come back in Plan A. It takes Plan B to wake them up. So get your letter ready for when you see him Thursday.

Also try to post more, it really does help you stay strong. I've been here since September, WH is still gone, but my days are good.

firefly, post, post, post until you are blue in the face, a lot of times it helps to reply to other posts as well. i think i figured out that you go from a "junior member" to a "member" when you've posted a certain number of times, i really don't know. i understand about the expense of counseling thing. have you talked to your dr. about getting on medication? not that this is what is needed but most of the time the SSRI anti-depressants don't really change your behavior per se but allow you to think and act more clearly. not sure how to explain it but a certain amount of worry goes away.

sorry i don't have much more to offer, i'm still new at this myself. read some of the other plan B letters and get an idea of what you can write and then come up with something yourself. post it here and ask for feedback. remember it's never too late and God is w/you if you let him, prayers to you.

I made it through another night without him. I went to bed at 9pm and got up at 7am so I wouldn't have think too much. I really thought he might call me, but I guess he is having too much fun with OW...out of sight, out of mind.

I am trying to psych myself up to follow through with plan B on Thursday after we speak. It is going to be hard, but maybe he needs this. I am just so afraid that he really won't come back.

I'm going to work on a plan B letter today and also write down what I want to say when I see him on Thursday.

I am still considering speaking with her parents. I guess it can't hurt. I've already spoken with OW's H and he only wished me luck because he was divorcing her.

I had hoped that by hanging on so long that OW would get annoyed and do something to end the relationship with H because she wants to get married to him. H says he doesn't want to get married to her, so I was hoping that their would be enough conflict to cause the end while I was still in Plan A.

I don't know that H could end a relationship with her if he wanted to. One time he was talking about how he had tried to end it with her and she was too persistant. H said that he had never broken up with anyone before and he didn't know how to go about it. I am worried that once she is with him all the time, she will be influencing him to get a divorce. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself or maybe I'm just trying to weigh all the options.

firefly

you could also think of it that if she does influence or push him to D that would be an LB to him and we all know that withdrawals LU and if you're not LBing him all the better. I think of that sometimes (sometimes more than others) that that's what it might take for my H to end the A, is when the OW starts to LB my H for whatever reason. keep coming here and much prayers to you.

Firefly...

you can't make him do a thing....

You are in great danger of falling in to the trap of the insane and the irrational state of your marriage...becoming acceptable to you...

you accepting behaviors in your universe which are unacceptable to your core beliefs...time to take all focus and energy off of your husband and place it back on you...

time for boundaries
time for standing up what you believe in
time to pull yourself way out of the fog you are in...

here are your words....

I know what husband is doing is wrong but I can't abandon him when i vowed to be there for better or worse... ...
active affairs and disrepect do not fall in to the category of better or worse....
these are his direct choices and actions...and as long as you place no consequances on them in your universe...you remain part of his twisted triangle...

It also made me more happier...because i don't get upset about his where abouts...

so...is this acceptable for you to continue this path...
another week
another month
another summer
another year.....
sounds appealing to you does it....
or is is time for you to take control of what is your destiny and your life...

I don't know that husband could end the relationship with her if he wanted to...

dangerous fog talk on your part...ofcourse he could and can..he is not a victim here....don't give him victim status....

this is all about you firefly...all about defining you and what is good and noble in your universe....

If i were you I would not be HOME on thursday when he come over at first...

I would breeze in 15 minutes AFTER his arrival...looking marvelous and CONFUSED statind is it THURSDAY already?????

Then i would hand him your plan b letter..because it is here and now you decide if you are going to be part of their triange or not...

there is nothing you can do or not do to control him...
plan b though received as one is NOT an unltimatum...give him an ultimatum and it will fail...give him plan b...that says...I love you..
I want to be with you..
but I can not be with you if you are with someone else....
it is not telling him what he should do..
it is all about telling him what YOU are doing or not doing in this case.....

Lor's post is good..that your other option is to continue plan A...but i think it is coming to the point that it is doing more damage to YOU.....

ARK

What if you were to keep doing what you are doing, be patient a bit longer. It may be that your husband will discover in the next few days that the reality of living with this woman is not what he thought it would be. He might realise very quickly that it was a mistake.

Chances are he will want to be where he is loved and cared for.


Are you willing to move if that is what he wants? You could be thinking about this. (For me, I would move to the ends of the earth in a second if that was in the way of my relationhip with my husband.)

This sounds to me like a time to be patient, and not give him any ultimatums.


Maybe you can use this next few days to pray for him and for guidance.

When I read Shul's response I thought "Yeah, that is all the support I need to not go to plan B." How wonderful, someone to support me letting him do what he wants.

However, I have been contemplating what a plan B would mean all day. And maybe I'm not going to let myself off the hook with Shul's remark, even though I appreciate what she has to say greatly.

I do need to use this time to continue praying. Maybe I can tell him he has to pick but not cut off communication with him completely if he leaves and go to Plan B in one month.

I guess I really do know that I need to set some boundaries with him. Now is my chance to do it. I just don't know if a formal plan B is most appropriate just yet. Hey, I have come a long way in the last few days. Thoughts?

I just did something for me that I am happy about. I called today about becoming a weekend foster parent. If H goes then it would be nice to have someone to look forward to and share my love and time with.

firefly

I know it is frustrating, doing nothing and waiting for them to come to their senses.

But I can see some hope in this situation. He has said that he is confused, and that he is not sure how to break it off. Maybe he doesn't want to hurt her. At least he is thinking about it, yes?

It is so frustrating not to be able to control these things; we can influence their decision, but if we try to control them, they will generally pull away.

What if you said to him, "Yes, I know you are having a bad time. Take some time away, and maybe you can sort some of this out. I have some things I want to think about, too. "

Thanks, Shul. That is a good option to consider.

I keep going back and forth on this. One minute I want to go to Plan B, the next I don't. I called H this AM and asked him to call me today to confirm that the appaiser is still coming for the house next door tonight (H wants to purchase as rental property) and to ask about a bill that needs paid. H hasn't responded to my message and I'm getting worried that maybe he isn't coming over at all now. Perhaps he will sneak home today while I am at work and move out--my worst and continual fear! I've asked him not to do that and have enough consideration for me to notify me before he does such a thing.

Last night was the night H was going to a concert with OW. I put two and two together to realize why this was the week we wanted to "try things out with her." He sneeked home on Tuesday while I was work to get his dress clothes to wear. Last night I realized that the his dress clothes were missing and that those really were wet foot prints on the floor Tuesday evening. I made myself busy going to the gym and cleaning the basement.

I also called OW's H for the second time for an update. He is stalling the divorce because he doesn't want OW to try to get alimony which would mean he'd lose his house. But he still has no plans to take her back (her 2nd A). He also said that OW's work hours got cut back to 18 hrs per week. Since my H is unemployed, if they live together that could be a real financial strain (which is another reason to Plan B and financial support is one of H's top needs). I also got the number for OW's parents, who OW's H says are very nice people but not influential over their daughter. My only reason to call them would be to clarify that I really do want work on our M and H and I have been together through all of this.

I got H's wedding ring out of his car (it is parked at our house and won't run) and put it in my jewelry box. I just could not stand the thought of his wedding ring being abondoned outside for the last month. It seemed kind of symbolic to his thoughts on our marriage and committment. I feel better that it is safe now.

While in the car, I did snoop and found a letter from OW from March 3rd, indicating how they met and how this all started. It even said that H kissed OW first, contrary to what H told me. That was certainly a strike for H.

I guess my next update will be whether H shows up tonight or even contacts me.

firefly

Well, I spoke with H at 3:30 pm and he drove me home from work. I asked him if he had made a decision regarding staying or leaving and he said no. So I told him that he was free to leave if he wanted to. He could not use the excuse that he was staying to pay the bills (he is even unemployed) and that he could walk away from me and our finances right now and start a new life with OW. I told him that if he was going to stay it was of his own free will and he had to be with me 100%. I was tired of sharing him and it was time for all three of us to move on with our lives whatever that would mean for us. I said I love you and that we have a good foundation to build upon. I talked for about 10 minutes and God must have guided my words because at one point, I realized that I wasn't even thinking. The message was: you have to make a decision and this will have to hurt you.

H went to lie down and came back ten minutes later in a very good mood. We had dinner and the appraiser came. H then asked me to drive him to play basketball with his friends (we only have one car right now). I said I would but I would also pick him up because I was not going to be disrespected by him getting a ride to see OW. No objection from H.

We went to bed later that night and I took H's hand and said "All I can say is that I love you. You have to decide the rest. You have to get over one of us." H then said that what I had said earlier in the evening really got him thinking, but he didn't want to talk about it right now.

Then this morning H and I talked about some past mistakes each of us had made. We discussed that we couldn't change the past. I brought up that he has become very secretive and it is built a great wall between us. It was a good conversation, but he says he's still conflicted because he knows we are each meeting different needs and he said that he has to figure out which needs are most important to him. I said that I could fulfill all his needs if he'd let me.

Maybe we are still stuck in the same place, maybe H is one step closer to ending it. I feel better because I have made clear that he can go if he wants to and he seemed suprised by that. I took away his reasons to complain:

* You don't like our finances? You can leave and be free of them (let OW and her part time job take care of you) or you can stay and we can continue working together on them. You have a choice.

* You don't like where we live? You can leave and live somewhere else (in a worse town 45 minutes away where you know no one) or you can stay and we can make plans to move. You have a choice.

It is frustrating because H says that it really isn't about me, it is about our circumstances. Lack of SF made his fantasize about leaving, but he uses our circumstances to justify OW as a "distraction." Life won't be better with her, just a different set of problems.

I feel like I have put myself in a better place to tell H to leave now. I am going to give him a week or two and then I will make him decide if he hasn't already. Hopefully, I can maintain my strength to do that.

firefly

The weekend was ok. We had some good times together, but H was moody and kept wanting to go see OW. I diverted him from going out twice to see her and it worked out well. I just explained how his actions would really hurt me. I would not have done that in the past.

H also talked about his trying to decide. He said that OW's personality annoys him at times.

I'm not going to plan B just yet.

firefly

Hang in there. You've done well so far. Most A's die a natural death. You can make it safe to talk to you about his feelings. I'm sure OW will start LBing since she doesn't have the marriagebuilders plan and support.

How long has H been out of work?

H is a massage therapist and met OW at the spa where they worked together. She is a fitness and yoga instructor.

H quit at the spa in November and enrolled in real estate school. He got a part time job in December working as a security guard, but cut back his hours to one day a week because he doesn't like it. H has sent out a number of resumes for different things. However, his inability to find employment has depressed him, sending him to see OW as a distraction, and then spending less time looking for a job...endless cycle. He truly has too much free time.

firefly

I picked up H from work last night and as we drove home he was affectionately caressing my arm. I thought this is going well.

We get home and H suddenly says that he wants to leave tonight and since he said that the next time he leaves it will be for good, then he anticipated that this was final. I couldn't handle it. I talked and cried and held him. He went to the car and talked to OW on his cell phone. When he returned I talked and cried some more. Then he got ready to leave and so did I. H went outside and I followed stating that I was going with him. He said he was driving to meet OW and I could take the car home. We stopped once to talk about him really needing a separation for awhile and it not being about he doesn't love me. I then cried all the way to the destination. He called OW when we got there and she hadn't left her apartment and there was other chit chat. He said he'd talk to her in the morning. I convinced him to come home with me rather than spend the night in the parking lot as he wanted to do. H was silent the whole way home. During this whole thing I did act crazy...crying and telling him I didn't want him to do this. (I know that it was bad, but it was different from my usual passive nature.)

This morning I told H that I realized he still wanted to move out and I hoped that if he did he'd call me at work to say so. I also stated that I did not want OW to come into our home if she was helping him get his things. He agreed to it all and said that "after what happened last night" (meaning with me or OW?) that he wasn't so sure he wanted to leave. (It was really wierd that she didn't meet him--is this God at work.)

I prayed for God to give me strength and I actually have this strange sense of peace right now that I will be ok if he does leave. Feeling this way is new to me and just hope it lasts.

I guess I'll wait and see what comes next.
-firefly