H

Been trying to get a hold of you on the recovery board. Need some advice again. Let me know if you get this. Post me back please. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NY

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: HopefulinNY ]</small>

^^bump^^

Hope
Yes I am here and there too but I have been too busy to post(painting...yippee). I ve been hit amd miss. I'll look out for your posts or this one. OK I am rolling up my sleeves now... what's your question?
H

Oh my where to start!

I have been talking with Lostbird also as he is also a FWS. I had a talk with WH tonight about our R and his R with my DD. Did you get all that?

He is very confused still. Says he loves me, thinks about coming home at least twice a week. Really was sad about not being here for Easter, and thought about me all day on our Anniversary. He even cried when we hugged and said happy anniversary to each other.

He said so many things I don't know where to begin with the questions. He said he feels like two different people one when he is with her and one when he is with me and at his moms farm. Is this a normal feeling? I asked him where he felt more wanted, he said with us. I asked him where he felt more loved, he said with us. I asked him where he felt more at home, he said no place. He cried a lot and is very sad.

He doesn't get along with OW son, but he loves the way she makes him feel. He said that he didnt feel like he could do things he wanted when he was here with me. I said that that is what you sacrifice when you have kids. There are lots of things I have never done because I was married with kids. He cried a lot. We didn't talk about his depression, but we did talk about the fact that he is trying to fill a void in his life. The fact that he has never had a relationship with his father.

He left and went to OW house. He was running late. He didn't tell her it was our anniversary, so she didn't know. He didn't tell her I cut his hair. He said he doesn't talk to her anymore than he did me. Can you explain any of these feelings? Do you recognize any of them. Can you give me some insight before I go nuts here. Thanks.

NY

Hopeful

I think that I can relate to some of his feelings so perhaps you might gain some insight through what I have to share with you.

One of the things that stood out for me was that he didn't have a relationship with his father. The relationship your h is missing is significant in that I didn't have much of a relationship with my father either. My dad was a hard worker (construction) but remained distant all of my life. I think that is one of the reasons I have difficulty with intimacy. My dad was an alcoholic and remained so until he died.

I can't relate to your H in that he's living with the OW right now (is that correct?). So I never had to struggle with that issue. But in the midst of the A I definitely was two different people. When my W had discovered e-mails that I had written to OW she had to keep looking up at who wrote it... she couldn't believe that it was me that was writing. It wasn't that it was to the OW it was my language (profane) that shocked her in addition to the realization that I was having an A. I know I was more "wanted" by my W but I felt that I was more accepted by OW. I did not live with OW but I think I can guess what it might have been like. It would have taken me a very long time, if ever to feel at home. Since I wouldn't have changed my basic make up significantly eventually I would have begun to relate to her the same way I relate to my W. So if your H didn't talk much at home he probably would talk much around OW. Continuing on with this "what if" scenario. The OW in my life had 2 children, a son and a daughter. I could see how her D would have hated me, it seemed that she had a healthy relationship with her father. I am not sure about her S.

Of course I loved the way OW made me feel that was why I was so addicted to her and the A. But there were a time when she totally ignored me and that was not a good feeling. I need lots of approval and I can see how that would have created a problem for me and most likely her in this made up scenario.

I felt that there was a "void" in my life. I think most WS do feel that way. There is a hole and you are trying to fill it. A long comes this other person and voi la it's filled (yeah right). The void in my life is the distance that I put between others and me. I am working to bring that down, I am a very lonely person. Perhaps there might be a piece of your H that can relate to that.

I have addressed my depression on his board many times. Sometimes I think I am OK. My new shrink says I am not. He says I am still depressed and if I am truthful I see evidence in my life of that condition everyday. I want out of it, the depression. I want to be off meds so I can feel like a normal person again. Honestly you have not heard from me much lately because I don't ever remember a time being so depressed. I was teary eyed one day last week... I could hardly speak to people... and that is what I do all day. My Dr says it was rage. That was the reason for the tears. Currently there is a terrible situation that exists with my 87 year old mom, it is very hard for me to handle. I guess I am not handling it well at all. My W has been a real comfort to me. I am glad she is patient because I know I am driving her nuts the way your H is seems to be doing to you.

I am trying to be open to you in hope that you might be able to see a little of your H in me. He doesn't know what he is feeling. He is torturing himself by bouncing back and forth to you and then to the OW. He can't make up his mind; he wants to know that his decision is the right one. If he is with her of course it isn't but as long as he allows her to be part of his life he will always be unclear as to where he belongs.

My kids are grown. One is married and next week my youngest will be married (at last). But I don't think that I could leave our grandson just to be with OW.
Perhaps there is some help for you in this. I do want to help. I am sorry that you are going through this mess
H

Hiker,

I am sorry that you are going through this very rough time. I also have depression of a sort and I know how it can hit you all at once and then you can be fine another day. My WH does not live with OW. He stays with her about 3 days a week but he lives with his brother 45 minutes away from both of us. My Grandmother is 88 so I know how it can be with the elderly. Feel free to talk to me about your mother if it will make you feel better, I may be able to help you in that situation. I am certainly willing to try in any way.

My WH is very torn. He says he knows it isn't right being with her as he is still married, but he likes the way he feels when he is with her. He has left his 3 year old son for her. I spoke firmly to him last night. I told him that in no way was I going to ever give up my son for any holiday, that I would fight him with every core of my body. He just stood there and cried. I told him that I didn't do anything wrong and I am not going to suffer through another holiday without my kids. I had to share my daughter until she was old enough to say she didn't want to go. WH went without our S on easter and he said it was very hard and very sad. So much so he couldn't even call here to see how he was. I explained that him and the OW were going to suffer through the holidays not me. I said don't even ask me to wake up on Christmas without my son not once. I will never ever be without my child on a holiday. I told him you chose her over him, and that isn't his fault. I am not going to let her make me suffer without my kids. He can suffer instead. He didn't like the things I said, but they are true and he knows it. He never fought he never said a word, just tears. I also told him my son would never be around OW as long as I am alive. I will get extension after extension to make sure of it. He didn't fight me on that one either. I told him she had no morals and my son will not be around someone like that, he shook his head yes. My question is, I am going dark again. I don't want to see him again. It is just too painful. Do you think this is best for him? I am doing it for me anyway, but I just want to get your prospective on how he would feel if he was just left alone again like before? He didn't like it, but he dealt with it. Thanks for the help.

NY

Hopeful,

I applaud you for taking the stand that you have w your H. You need to protect your child and I would say that you are going about it in the right way. The OW in my life was plagued by guilt, it got too much for her to bear(not bare or is it? No that's naked
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> oh well you get it) so she ended the A. I knew that she was right to do what she did, it was better for both of us. It sounds to me that your H like me is addicted to the feeling. Perhaps like me he has never allowed himself to feel much of anything. The feeling he gets from her is so powerful he needs to keep feeding his addiction. I think that some of us are predisposed to being addicted. When the chemicals get flowing in our brains we want it to never stop. But it takes more and mopre to keep it going. I have no real facts to support my idea this is just the way it seemed to happen to me. It has made it very difficult for my W to understand what was going on inside of me during the A. Those who are addicted to things like cocaine and heroin nedd more and more to produce the same "feeling" in side of them. They will sell their souls for another fix. In the same manner those who have allowed themselves to become mired on an A find theselves needing more and more until they are willing to give up everything to keep that "feeling".

Yes I think it is best for him that you do not allow him back in your life. He cannot have her and you too. He needs to feel that pain of the seperation from both you and his child. We cannot protect others from the consequences to their behaviors. Yes you must do this for you. Like my W you didn't cause this situation and there is only so much pain a person can take. I have been blessed in that my W is still hanging in there with me... Now that is true love. I hope this helps.

My mother is being taken advantage financially by my bro and sister-in-law. It has gone on for years. Mom has grown dependant on them for her daily care. They have lived in a house behind her's for the last 18 years rent free. Taken her cars, used her credit card etc. It's a soap opera that my older bro and I are trying to stop. I am so angry over the situation and have been for years. I am thinking about starting conservatorship proceedings. More needless money spent but I have to figure out a way to protect her. This is a good example of not setting boundries. You have set boundries with your H for your own peace of mind. I think that it can only turn out for the best. Keep me updated...Perhaps there may even be some help for someone else in this thread.
H

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

Hiker,

Thanks for your honesty. I truly appreciate it. Now about the addiction and how you need more of it. If I stay back will he crash and burn from an overdose? He has already given up everything he owns, he wants nothing in the house, nor the house, the kids or me. There is nothing else for him to lose except himself. When will the addiction end? I thought it was strange how he stood there crying telling me that he felt like two people in one body. One when with her, and one when with me and the family. And he didn't know where he belonged. It made me kind of feel sorry for him. But then when I woke up this morning, I felt mad. Mad because it was so selfish of him to do this. If you noticed all of our conversation last night was about him. It wasn't about how he was concerned about my feelings, or the kids feelings. All about him, so that tells me: He is still in the fog very deeply. When he can come around and see that others have feelings too, then I might think he is seeing the lighthouse (me). But he is so deeply out there, even the light from the lighthouse is not visible to him yet. I often wonder if it ever will be? Or will he just go further out to sea deeper into the fog and never see the lighthouse or hear the foghorn?

Now about your mother. My uncles did the same thing with my Grandmother. She bought a house for my one uncle and then he pretty much booted her out. He left her alone for hours and hours, never took care of her or anything until she was forced to move up here with us. Now she lives in a small apt. and she has aides that come and bathe her and take care of her. My mother is in charge of everything now. She does all of her grocery shopping and does her checkbook and all. They totally took advantage of my grandmother. She has nothing now. She sold her house in FL and has nothing to show for it. Not one penny. When she came here she had just enough money to buy a mosque (SP) for when she dies. The best thing you can do is take control of everything. If I was you and this is just my O, I would sell everything she owns that she can't take care of anymore including their place they live in and move her into something more suitable. Maybe a small trailer or an nice apt. When you get old it becomes too hard to take care of things and then others take advantage of your oldness. In order for this not to happen it sometimes is necessary to take control of things, sell stuff for the money and put the money in the bank for her needs. If she needs medical care, or needs to go into long term care anything at all. Ask her what she wants done with the money when the good lord comes calling for her. Maybe she will give it to a charity or something instead of the greedy relatives who have already sucked off of her like fleas for years. I know it is better if someone that wants what is best for her takes control of everything, and that sounds like you. I would spend the money and go for it. One less tragedy and stress in life you won't have to worry about. Good Luck and I will keep you posted. As we are back in Plan B because that is what I chose to do for me, it is what works for me and my emotions.

NY

NY, you are strong. I even feel envious about your Wh crying.

My WH still asked for a D or seperation. He is so cold, he just said that I don't love you. He would leave without anything like your WH. He would have nothing to lose except himself.

Hike, if you have time, can you please help me too? You can read my thread in PlanA/Plan B. It is a long one, but we had a short conversation today. I am confused again. NY, sorry to steal your thread. Please e-mail me if you want to talk. THinking of you all the time. Prayers for you.

Lost,

As hard as I know that this is for you right now, you seriously need to Plan B. The reason I am saying this is because you need to show your WH what it is like without you, just like I do. I was in Plan B for a while and I was doing great. Then this happened and here we are again. I am back in Plan B as I don't foresee any contact in the future ever again. He can contact my attorney for anything further. I am pretty much done emotionally and mentally. I have put it in GODS hands now. That is all you can do. Just go on with your life. Be the strong woman that you are. Hiker can give great words from experience, but every experience is different. I feel very close to Hiker as he is very similar to my WH. They both have depression and are filling voids in their lives. I am not sure how much Hiker can help you as you really don't know what your WH is even thinking these days.

I got a glimmer of what mine is going through. We spoke very calmly and lovingly yesterday about his feelings towards his father and lack of feelings about his father and so on. Please try to keep an open mind with any advice you receive as it can be very confusing at times. I know your pain. I am there with you. Just light a candle and pray as I do. I do this several times a day. Just for sanity and guidance.

NY

^^bump^^

NY, thank you so much. I do want to go to Plan B. I will just hang in for few more days. On 4/23, I will go to the cruise, then MB weekend. I guess plan B will be in effect after that unless something maricle happens which I don't expect. I do pray many time a day, I will light a candle to pray too like you. i just send an e-mail to you.

Good Morning NY!

BACK to the DARK ! thats my vote. Its what brought him to this point now , starting to see things , he is starting to confront the 2 world thing .

He needs to not start cake eating now , this would be back ,. JMHO don't allow him back in , he is trying to get a glimpse of where YOU are so he can gage to see if he will tottaly lose you .

So now he knows the 2 people thing good , so let him have more of her and none of you . You see with time that addiction turns to reality , the things he will not get from her that he has with you will start the process of him to realize that OW is not the PARTNER she is an escape .

AND you know the saying, "you can run but you can't hide"

AS said has it is and as hard as it is he must crash and burn . ON his own .

YOUR doing great that was a great talk the both of you had consider that shot scored in your court LOL

WHY? cause he is thinking , thats an amazing thing in FOG ! I am sure you where shocked he still has a brain in there !

STAY the course ,, you are strong and worthey of only the best !

3

How are you? I am doing great today! You are right in so many ways. It was a good talk we had, and yes there is still a brain in there. It is still all about him as you can see. I figured once he said I think about asking to come home every day instead of just twice a week he is really getting ripe. I think it is funny how he doesn't get on with her son. Did he really think he would? He didn't get on with my daughter for years, now she loves him to death. He is such a fool. I can't wait until he wakes up one morning and looks at the face beside him and throws up.

I am in the dark now. It did work wonders, if not for him, for me. I loved Plan B. It was hard having to come out of it even if only for a week. But the week gave me some idea of where he is and where he is standing in his life. So you have heard of the two people thing? It is strange so many people have. I he could see himself as Hiker, and LB have. What a great insite everyone here has been for me. Thanks for replying it is always encouraging to hear new from anyone with experience. I love getting posts back that are at least a little encouraging. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HINY

Hopeful

I am so impressed with your strength. Overall. it seems to me, that women are stronger than men emotionally ( one l/two ll's?). Or is it that the strongest women post on this board?
At least it seemed that I had a more difficult time with withdrawl than OW (but I don't know for sure). Is that a sign of strength?

If OW's H discovered the A through her e-mails would she have seemed like two different people? If the answer to that is yes then I really didn't know her at least not like he knows her. Realisticaly how could I? He's known her for 20+ years and my W has known me for 34+ years(I was a child bride you know). There are so many details that there just wasn't enough time spent to really know eachother.

Your H thinks he knows her, but he really doesn't. He may even think that she understands him like no other person ever has, but how is that possible? That kind of understanding takes time; it takes years to really know someone and over that time we change dramatically. My W has seen me at my best and my worst moments. She has seen me come home from work in triumph and in utter defeat. She watched as I succeeded and failed as a father. She experienced me in control and out. She suggested what I say at my father's funeral and although the words came from me the idea was hers Afterwards family members wanted copies of what I had said that day. She told me his illness was terminal, she held me as I tried to understand what was happening. The tears are just rolling right now because she has always supported me in both my good and bad ideas. Some of us see all of this too late, some may never see it. I pray that your H will see all that you have given to him. It is there in his heart... he just has to reach for it... for his sake and yours I hope he does.
H

Hiker,

Thank you so much for all of that. I actually told him the other day that exact same thing. I said I have been here to hold your hand for 10 years. I have been through everything with you death, birth, marriage, sickness, health. He just looked at me like he was stupid or something. I also asked him if he had a stroke tomorrow would she feed, water and wipe his [censored] for him? He said I don't know. I said well there you go, I would do it for until I couldn't do it anymore physically. He just looked at me. He never knows what to say.

He is a totally different person now. I know either one of us will ever be the same. The hardest things in life I have gone through with him. He loved his grandfather dearly and he passed away from Parkinsons it was hard watching him go downhill so fast. I have been here for him and I will continue to be even if we never get back together. I know she doesn't know him like I do, and I know he isn't himself with her. He is what he wants her to see and that is all. I am so glad you were smart enough to go home and realize how much your W has been there for you. You will have the best life ever now, I know it. You speak to me from your heart and I can see that you truly love your wife from your toes on up. That is the way I feel about my WH, in fact I even love his toes. The thing is the more time that goes by the less feelings I am finding that I have for him. Last night I laid in bed thinking what it would be like to be with someone new. All the butterflies, and the excitement. Someone who actually wanted me. Not being second to anything. I have never had that, not even in the beginning of our relationship. There was always something more important than me in his life. Whether it be motorcycles, snowmobiles, races, friends always something. I wonder if I would ever be first? Do I want to sit and wait to see or do I just move on? Life is so confusing. I wish he could talk to me like you do, but he never has. And yes women are stronger than men. It has something to do with the whole having kids thing I think. All of the women on this board are extremely strong or they wouldn't be here, that is how I see it anyway.

I really appreciate you taking the time out of your life to help me, a perfect stranger in the hardest thing I have ever had to go through in my life. My pain is that of unbelieveable amounts at times. Speaking with you on what my WH might be feeling at times has helped me alot. Please do not disappear. I will keep you posted as things go along. For now I am back into Plan B. It works for me, and my daughter.

HINY

NY, I am glad that Plan B worked for you. I will do that pretty soon. What do you do in weekends? Friday nights?

L&H

Well on the nights that I don't have my kids, every other Sat. nite I usually sit and have a good cry. I have tried to find other things to do, but I am just not ready. One night I went out looking for something, anything, sex, love, booze any kind of fun I could have. I couldn't find the darn place all the girls were meeting and I got this funny voice in my mind, I don't know if it was god talking to me or what and I am not crazy. It kept saying just turn around you aren't ready to do this. So that is what I did. I turned around and came home alone. Best choice I have made so far. I haven't regretted it yet. I would have probably gone home with some loser and never saw him again. Soooo, here I am faithful me. I haven't been with anyone but my WH in 10 years. Unless of course you want to count the fact that he was with OW during the A and I didn't know about in which case I was with OW too without knowing it I guess in a round about way. Anyway I don't do much. I am trying to find stuff to do. Last weekend without the kids I went to my sisters, we went and got Whopper Jrs. at BK and did the Ouija board. It was fun I guess. I might try actually going out and being around people soon. I just don't want to make any mistakes while I am out there. When you haven't felt loved in a year you really start to look for it anywhere I guess.

My sister said something to me that shocked me, she said you know you used to be able to get any guy you wanted when we were younger and now here you are heartbroke over one guy. It struck me kind of funny. She has never been in love or married so she has no clue and it shows.

L&H just keep plugging away at it. Life is short it can only get better.

HINY

Hiker,

Well my MIL called this morning and we spoke. I thought that WH left and went to OW house the other night after our talk. She said he came to her house and they talked until 11 pm. She said he cried and he told her everything. About how he feels like two people. And they also spoke about his father. She said he knows he is missing something in his life and that is why he feels the need to cheat. He also said he knows he will never have the same relationship with his father as his brothers do.

I think it was good for him to go and talk with her. He told her he is seriously thinking about coming home. She said she told him he would have to give up OW totally, and that when we had fights I would never be able to use the A against him. I couldn't dredge up the past constantly. But that just isn't going to happen that way. This is my life and my relationship and I am doing it my way or no way.

If he does come and ask to come home, he isn't moving right back in here. He needs to get some IC for his problems, and we need to get some MC for our problems. I can't have him move in here and hurt our kids again. My DD has been through enough for now. I will keep you posted in all of my goings on here. Thanks for your insite.

HINY

Well , this sounds good ! I think he is at first stage on the ropes. Going to his mom or anyone for that matter is good ,,,,, BUT be careful , like you said, this coming home thing is your way , His mom MAY be putting out the feelers for him ,. Ya know what I mean ?

Her telling him you can't use this against him , well I am sorry ,, I know she is right for it to work in recovery that is true it is not a weapon .


BUT it will happen ,, and most of all it will not just be OH I AM HOME LETS JUST GET OVER IT !WHAM its gone .

I know you know that , but if he comes home to soon (still fogged out ) then that sometimes becomes the thought process .

I do not know if you ever read any of MIMIS threads from when she was in PLAN B ,, but look some up . They can start to let you see this new world of PLAN B you are entering .

Also MORTEMAN was/is great at this , I do not know if he has been around much any more .

Stay calm and focused , not is not the time to get off track its an important time to stay focuused and n ot read to much into anything .

THis could be a day or 2 thing then he goes into that world of retarted again . So don't dwell into to all this new info to fast OK ?

YOur doing great and if anything tell him to refer back to the PLAN B letter .YOU did write one didn't you ?????????

SO be well , strong and focused .YOU are worthey of a life of happiness and more !