RR, please bang me. I need that.

But one thing I don't understand. Don't I show him I care and love him about asking him? If I don't call, does it mean I don't care? Oh, how I want to do it right.

I feel the trembling again. I guess that I am trying to seek security from WH, which is the wrong place. Nut how do I get out of that. I know that I have to seek that from GOD. I wish I can talk to someone now.

okay, BANG BANG BANG BANG!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

" But one thing I don't understand. Don't I show him I care and love him about asking him? If I don't call, does it mean I don't care? Oh, how I want to do it right."

I understand what you're saying and i think you can definitely show him you care and love him in other ways. i think you are doing a terrific job at that except when it comes to where he's going to be at night. like i said leave a note for him for when he does come home. make the guest room where he sleeps nice like turning down the covers or spraying some of your perfume on the sheets. or cooking a nice meal for him and leaving it on the stove.

i don't think that if you don't ask him if he's coming home that you are giving him the impression that you don't care and i think others would agree. yes, us BS want to do what is right. but can you see how your H might see that by you asking him that question that he is perceiving it as a LB? to the point that he dreads talking to you because you might ask him this. of course i'm just guessing here but i feel like there is some validity to what i'm saying. i am trying to "give" you what you need to continue in this marathon race and part of that is saving you from the continued grief that asking your H that question gives you.

it's a chipping away process not a chip away and then glue it back on process. again maybe i'm wrong on this but i don't think so. maybe you could find more reasons or things for him to WANT to come home. like renting a movie you know he would like, cooking a meal he would like, asking him to help to do something around the house or w/the kids. but if he turns you down then move on or change the subject. i think in your situation that you need to continue to make the environment a place where your H wants to be. maybe some people would say that by not asking your H that you are enabling him to continue his behavior and maybe that's true. but it's also been said that if doing what we're doing isn't working then we need to change what we're doing.

that probably doesn't make a lot of sense and maybe someone can say it better than me. i still say you need to write down the same questions you ask here and ask SH, when you want to know what to do to handle a situation, write it down and type it here. maybe i'm putting too much stock into what SH says, i've thought of this myself. maybe i should stop counseling w/SH so much and trust more on God. but i feel that God has led me here and to SH, but is that because that's what i want to believe? maybe so but until I receive a bigger sign myself or i feel that SH is steering me in a direction i don't want to go, i'll just have to continue to pray that God will reveal things to me whether it is here, w/SH, in church, in the Bible, etc.

i'm going to have to be signing off soon but i hope you get what i'm trying to say and will check back again before i leave for the day. i haven't really got anything done for work. oh well..but maybe that's wrong, i'm in essence cheating my employer by not doing my work so maybe i need to stop doing that before God will let my H come back. well that's a whole different topic. prayers to you.

RR, I hear you.

But he is not coming home means NOT COMING home over night. I don't know where he is. He won't take my call, so I stop calling him. But one day he made the comment that I didn't call him. I asked these question to SH, he said that I have to feel it, it is very delicate, I have to find out what is right to do.

Now I really feel like marriage is an art, just like music, same piece of music, played by different person, it sounds very different. I guess i don't have the talent of doing it well, so I fail now. I really want to learn to do it. So many times, i don't know what to do. A piece of music, if you didn't do it well, you can do it again. But if I lose the M, it is gone for good. My sister already siad that since this ordeal, I am changed. I am not as confident, I am afraid of everything, maybe I would do it wrong. I need GOD's help to overcome all the difficulty, only he will guide me to the right direction.

RR, you are really GOD sent. I know that GOD sent you, believer and many other friends here for me. I will listen and practice.

well i guess when you put it this way:

"But he is not coming home means NOT COMING home over night. I don't know where he is. He won't take my call, so I stop calling him. But one day he made the comment that I didn't call him. I asked these question to SH, he said that I have to feel it, it is very delicate"

it makes me think more of what i told you and now i'm confused. of course SH is right, it is very delicate and i'm not sure what to tell you now. does he come home first thing in the morning? when he says that you didn't call him did he mean that you didn't call him that day or does he mean that you didn't call to find out where he was and if he was going to be coming home? those are 2 very different questions. i he just meant calling every day then i think that would be easy to do but if it's that you didn't ask whether or not he would be coming home then i think that's more difficult to answer. maybe just ask him every other day? maybe another way to treat the situation is just to expect the worse and then change the subject. i don't know, beginning to feel a little out of my league here.

i think your analogy about music and marriage is good and continue to pray and practice.

oh sweetie, when you said i was a God send, i truly hope that i am and thank you for saying that it really touched my heart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . like i said i'm beginning to think i am coming here too much and i'm not relying on God enough but i don't have any other computer access. i do try to take stuff from work to do at night that way i'm making up for all the time i spend here. but i still feel guilty and i feel that way for a reason.

well i gotta go for the day. i have church tonight, which i'm looking forward to, wish i had it everyday. hope you have a good night, God bless and prayers to all those here, RR

LNR,

My two cents..

Stop calling him. Let him call you. Sure, he'll wonder why you aren't calling anymore, but let him wonder. Let him wonder what you're up to. Right now, when you call, he knows he can do whatever he wants and get away with it because you are always there...always worried about him...always wondering what he's doing.

Also, if you call all the time, it can be perceived as nagging or treating him like he's a child--you know, always having to check up on him. I totally understand that you want to know where he is and if he's coming home. But I think you need to let go just a little.

Why can I say all this? Because THIS WAS ME A FEW MONTHS AGO!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I did all this. I knew I shouldn't call, but I did. He wouldn't answer his phone, so I left a message. I always asked when or if he was coming home. And all it did was upset me. I was upset if I called and couldn't get him. I was upset if he said he was coming home at such-and-such a time and then didn't show. (And he never showed at the proper time!)

And I think it just made him feel like he was under my nose all the time. The more I tried to hang on to him, the more he pulled away to gain his independence.

My pastor was actually the one who said "quit chasing him...let him pursue you." You can still be very caring when he's home and still do a good Plan A, I believe, without calling or asking if he's coming home. Just be attentive when he is there.

At this point you and RR are far stronger people than I am, being able to deal with a WS at home and still do a great Plan A. I actually enjoy the fact that my WH is not at home (as long as he's acting like the horse's rear-end that he is). It's peaceful. To have him coming home late each night and know (or even suspect) that he was still in an A would be driving me nuts!

I think going through what I did for those months with him, God taught me to be strong--that I could survive even when I felt like I wouldn't, so that now even though I' essentially alone, I don't feel so bad. I do still pray for my WH daily if I remember. I really do want him to come back to God. But until or unless his heart changes and he really desires to work on our marriage, I really don't want him back at home.

LL

<small>[ May 19, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

RR, I hope you have a good time in church. I know that every one is confused by WH's act and words. I guess that best way is to put it behind like all the experts said. RR, may GOD be with you tonight.

LL, I know what you mean. I actually don't call him and not to leave any messages either. But I think that he thought I am too cold, not cool. He thought I was too cold. I just don't know what is the best way tobe around. In my heart, I am screaming, please have my H back, please have my M back. On the other hand, I know that I have to be patient, GOD is working on his schedule.

So now I am trying to be busy, vucuming, going outside to work on the yard, cooking etc. i was supposed to have someone sign up for mortgage tonight. But he found someone else to get 1/8 point lower and went away. I used to care about that a lot, but I don't care any more. My M is more important.

LL, how did you deal with your DD?

Now the kids are fighting. D is very nasty. She hit S, and calling her names. She said that I did not love her. Oh, how do I deal with it?

LNH,

On the DD issue, I'm not sure I have any good advice. Mine has sort of settled down a bit as our family has settled into a routine finally. She's NOT perfect. She's still very hard to control and comes and goes as she pleases, and no matter what I do it doesn't seem to stop that.

She's VERY disrespectful and uses bad language if she feels like it, uses my makeup and wears my clothes without permission, leaves the house whenever she pleases, etc.

But through all that, at least she's no longer just yelling and crying and being hateful toward everyone. This is an improvement. And she is getting along fairly well with her brother, though he is older than her, not younger like yours, and I think that makes a BIG difference.

All I can say is when your DD is in one of her moods, try and distract her and get her involved in something else, even if it's just helping you with something. See if she wants to go to a store with you. Having one of the kids ride in the car alone with me seems to be the thing that is most apt to get them to open up and talk freely with me.

And when all else would fail and my DD was so angry that all she could do was fling hurtful words at me and cry and walk in her room and slam the door, I left her alone. Usually she either cooled off after a few hours or she fell asleep and slept off the grumpiness, and then would emerge in a slightly better mood. When I tried to scold her for her disrespect or punish her, she became that much more unbearable.

I also think that as they get older they settle down a little emotionally (at least I'm hoping they do). Your DD being a bit younger than mine is probably just getting into the really difficult early adolscent years.

Did I tell you we found out that my DD isn't taking her Zoloft after all. She's been hiding it again for weeks. We saw her psychiatrist today. He said lets just see if her mood continues to stay improved and if it does, we'll hold off on the meds for now.

School is almost out. That for me is worrisome, because my DD will be free all day every day with no one keeping an eye on her. That is probably when our problems will really start again.

LL

LL, I think that you do better than I do. I feel that I am absolutely controlled by her. No matter what i said and what I do, she can have things to bounce back.

So I just took them out for grocery shopping, just bread and milk. Then she wanted to go to Dollar store. I said that it is getting late, we have to go home. She was not happy again and said you ALWAYS not let me go there. She just use always, never. I am really afraid what will happen when she really goes to her teens.

I feel so empty now. WH is gone, D is acting, S not behave. It seems that everything goes in the wrong direction. I miss our time last year this time. After dinner, we either walked or rode our bikes after dinner. But now?

Since WH said he can not make it tomorrow for D's conseling. I rescheduled it. The conselor just called and told me she only had appointment in late M, or T., which will require Wh to her to. Should I call him about it or wait till tomorrow?

I don't want to call him and get a message.

lostnhurt - Don't call WH. What you need to do is get something from Victoria's secret. Then lure your WH into the bedroom.

Sorry your D is being such a pill, but the teens kinda start at about 12. You will find that nothing you do is right. Her job right now is to pull away from you, and it seems like she is doing great.

Believer, I will get the Victoria Secret for Father's day, how is that?

DD is crazy, and she is driving me crazy. Yesterday, the mom of the boy she babysit wanted to know whether she can do it Friday. So I left a written note to her to call back. Whne I came home, I asked her whther she got the note and called back. Shesaid you just don't trsut me, do you? How do I get a D like that? How do i deal with her?

lnh,

Your D sounds like she needs to spend more time with her dad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What???? Well when one acts like a WS (that 'you don't trust me babble'), then they need to give that line of babble to another babbler and not you. See you take it personally and get hurt. She needs to give it to her dad, who by now s/b used to dishing that stuff out. Trust me, he won't like it but you shouldn't have to deal with it either.

As for her mouth, maybe she isn't good company for anyone's kid. Cancelling it isn't the end of the world but maybe a good lesson or 2 learned.

As for the no-show WS, I would not reward him with anything nice. He doesn't come home and gives you grief, then you can choose how to handle it. Be cordial but not too sweet. No nice stuff, otherwise he will think the more he stays away the nicer you will be. It is hard to balance in the fog. Respect yourself.

I would not say much when he comes home. When he wants you to meet a need or 2, think before you do so. He isn't allowed to shirk his family obligations so don't cut him slack on that. As for his meeting your needs, thank him when he does but I wouldn't make a lot of effort to meet his when he is being disrespectful to you.

My motto: Plan A the spouse but plan B the Ws. Times will overlap but need to be able to differentiate between the 2 characters inhabiting the same body. When in doubt err on the side of caution (be nice but not close).

JMHO,
L.

Rochid, thanks for your valuable advice. I really appreciate your help in the time your family needs to be taken care.

As for D, WH had that already. One day, he told D: you have to change, you see and take everything negative, you said no one loves you. What did you learn in church? Jesus said to love everyone. I am not going to church, I even know that. I am better than you, I love everyone(OW, not his wife) and think everyone loves me. I don't need to go to church to get that. What do you go to church for?

Now you see what kind of example he set her for. D is so disrepectful, judgemental and bad temper. She acted like she is the mom of her brother, critizing him. Yesterday, she even hit him. She said the conseling didn't help her. Probably one day she gets in jail, that will help her. I just have to pray for more wisdaom of that.

As for WH, I don't know what to do. He was ok when he is around. But this disappearance is the most disrepectful, thoughtless act. I do think that Plan B is in the near future.

Last night, I fell asleep at about one and didn't wake up till 6am. Praise the Lord. I thanked HIM for that. it is another day, it is going to be good. I hope everyone have a good day today.

lostnhurt -

I would not take daughter's behavior personally. Her job during teen years is to pull away from her family. That is what she is supposed to do. Usually they get most of their support from friends, and then later go on to be more independent.

Make sure she has good friends. I always had my boys friends over to our house. That way I knew what they were like.

Your daughter has given you something she likes to do - the dollar store. So now you can plan a trip just with her there. She will see that you are listening to her complaints.

not much time to post but wanted to clarify to LL that my H and i are not in the same house so maybe that's why i seem so strong. because i'm not actively in his behavior or thoughtlessness.

lost, glad you got some sleep, i was going to be writing a letter to my H today and putting it in the mail and then he called just a few minutes ago. he just keeps catching me off guard. i think i handled the situation okay but i did lie and say that i hadn't got the letter because i'm house sitting (which i am) but he did agree to talk to SH again (praise God) but he said he couldn't do it until monday. i told him htat i would go and get the mail and read the letter. after work. so now i'm trying to get another appt for myself w/SH and one for H asap. i shouldn't have lied but darn it i was going to send a letter and then he just had to call me. i knew it was him calling so maybe i shouldn't have answered the phone ughhhhhhh! oh well.

i'll update you guys later, pray for me as i pray for you.

I went to have my hair colored. Not the color color, just my grey hairs are showing. I feel much better after that. When I came home, I took a hot shower. It feels good with the hor water like someone was bracing me warmly.You know how we women need affection. That is one way I cope. I could have use my hot tub, but the hot water tank maybe too small, when it is half full, there is no more hot water.

I brought along a book Parenting with Love and Logic with me to read. I had this book for a long time, but never bother to read it until now. So now I am reading several books at a time: Divorce Remedy, Prayers, Acoomuniion with Our Creater, the above one, Bible, HNHN, GOD Calling, meanwhile, I am listening Gospel tapes on Humble while I am on line, and listening a book called Awakening. Don't you feel overwhelmed? I do, but I enjoy it.

However, I do feel that I am doing something like a Chinese saying: You only dig the well when you are thirsty. I am digging it so hard, even I don't have the well yet, I already taste some water.

It was the first time I felt the joy of inner self. I really get rid of my own thought and let GOD come in my heart, so I could sleep. Today, I prayed like the book said for truth and meditate. I really feel a flow of love, clear water in my heart. I feel so good. I kept talking to my sis that I want to reach the state of joy, I want to have the joy Bible said, but I couldn't get it. Now I finally have a taste. Aii the sudden, I have a feeling to share this with H, I don't want to educate him, just want to tell(share) how I feel.

I had too much pride on myself, I thought I could do everything. Everything I had I earned it myself. Now GOD gave me a great lesson, what kind of grace of GOD. I am not good for my M, I failed in parenting, but GOD is teaching me to be himble. Humble will get me where HE wants me to be. Put down my own pride, be humble, I will be a good wife and a good mom. What a good feeling.

I called H about D's appointment and tonights concept. He didn't answer the phone. So I left a message. I just prayed for him, with no worry. He called me back with a very soft tone. He explained why he didn't answer the phone first, then he said he would do all those. Even h has a training session tonight, he will take D to her concert. I thanked him. But the feeling is good. I feel the calmness. I just want to praise GOD. GOD is so good. Now I know that I can put everything on him, not to worry by myself.

good lost, i'm happy and proud of you. this is probably one of the calmest posts you have written. you know how i'm feeling right now and i just have to try harder from this point on. i've got to go for today but will check back tomorrow. have a good night and prayers as always to you.

got your email address and will email you in a few minutes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />