Soon to be in Plan B - Marriage Builders® Forums

Hi, if you know my story, you know that I was very scared about going to Plan B. We just came back tom MBW. But Wh still disappeared to thin air and refused to do any lesson. I was suggested to go to Plan B in few weeks.

I need all the support, advice, critiques and anything. I couldn't sleep again last night b/c of his disapperance. But I know I can go through it.

HUGS to you lostnhurt! We can support each other! My H is here and TYRING, but i am not sure he can actually fall in love with me. I guess I will give him the allotted 4 weeks as Dr Harley suggested and see what happens. I dont think I explained myself though very well to Dr harley. H WANTS to love me but he is not letting me in.

In any event, we will all be here to support you. My H didnt' call me last night, which is very unusual for him. He was wroking in the ER and he always calls me from the ER, he hasnt' called yet this mroning either. I am not going to call him though! Stay strong!

Thanks, Mom. I supposed you read my correspodance with Dr. Harley. I am very very sad now. I am crying. But I am strong.

I am in the library try to find the books Kayla recommended. I hope these reading will help me through everything. I am so sick and tired of this whole thing.

Good luck to you and Dad. He will let you in, just be patient.

I made the appointment to talk to SH tomorrow, then called WH to see whehter he can talk to him. He actually said ok.

Then I asked him what happened last night, did he get a good sleep. He said yea, but I didn't ask him where he was about, but just told him to come home. He said if I come home, you will ask me to do those lessons. I said that you agreed. He argued that yesterday was not the schduled time, so he didn't have to be home. what an idiot! I said don't you want to spend time with me? The kids miss you too. He said is that true?

Then I asked him whehter I can join him for lunch, he said no, I don't want to. My heart broke. Why there is such person in the whorld? Why do I still want to be with him?

Lostnhurt,
I have been following your thread. I thought that the MBW was unlikely to be the turning point for your H. For whatever reason, you accomodated his thoughtless behavior. The affair was "the straw that broke the camel's back", not an addiction which developed due to lack of self-protection against developing a love relationship with another woman (something that I think may have been the case with dadto3boys).

I'll give you something to consider from my own story. When the A came to light, I was close to nervous breakdown. I told my family about not just the A but also that he had broken my arm four months previously and that he had been physically abusive during most of our M. That was a shock to my family and somewhat to his. They took the position of "You need to do the Christian thing and forgive him", and my family took the position of "Throw the bum out."

A very wise friend of mine told me at the time to go into a long-term separation and plan for it to be permanent. I remember telling her that he had said I didn't meet his needs, and her reply was "Did he meet yours?" There was no consideration of that! Nevertheless, I knew that I contributed to problems in the M, so I was unwilling to go to Plan B.

BIG mistake. As long as he was in my company, he could blame me for his behavior. He didn't have to face his own behavior.

I did throw him out of the house for two months, but it was hardly a separation. He would come back home to cut his hair. I wasn't willing to give him up. What I really wasn't willing to do was FACE THE REALITY that his choices are his choices and not mine. As long as I wasn't facing that reality, he didn't have to face that reality either.

That went on and on from May 4, 2002 (D-day) until December 9, 2003 when I sat him down and said I was ending MC but we could try the MB program. I do have a thread in the private forum which is long and to which Harley basically says to follow the program of 15 hours per week together. Believe it or not, my H is starting to meet my EN of affection but only because his alternative is that I will file for D.

You know what? You aren't in the M for financial reasons. You can force your H to support his children. You are in this M to get your ENs met and to meet those of your H. You tolerated thoughtless behavior for years and now he has done the ultimate thoughtless thing of having an A. If you let him know, gently, kindly, that you are willing to go through the MB program of recovery with him and he makes the choice not to, then your Plan A may be interpreted by him as your willingness to tolerate his utter disregard for the impact of his choices on you and your children. The MBW is a decision point for him. It sounds like he is trying to it just a diversion.

I wish I could save you and your children the pain that I went through for more than 18 months as I tried to influence his behavior. IMHO, the most influential thing you can do is to make it clear that his behavior is intolerable, and the way to do that is to go to Plan B.

After what you've already been through, I wouldn't give him even a few weeks! You've had the MBW. He's disappearing. It's sad to face. It's hard to face. You can let him know that you are willing to have him back if he is willing to go through this program of recovery, and that's it.

Do you really want to continue in your M as it is? If not, Plan B.

I don't think I could have gotten through to myself in the state I was in in May, 2002, so I don't expect to get through to you. Harley is right.

I will hold out this to you in hope. I gained 60 lbs. between when Tom and I were dating and last month, 40 of them gained in the two years since 1/3/02 when the A still wasn't exposed but I said "I want you to care about me more than Sophia" and he said "If it wasn't for the kids, I'd have been long gone.

Well, I have lost 10 of those pounds. Do you know why? I was starved for affection, and food was a poor substitute for what he gave to this other woman but didn't give to me after we were M. He is really having a hard time with being affectionate. He has no problem with sex but finds something as affectionate as French kissing to be inappropriate because of the lack of connection between us. Nevertheless, he is starting to be affectionate, I am starting to enjoy it, and my weight is starting to drop. I even felt a fleeting moment of love -- that in-love feeling that I haven't felt since the month we were M.

Follow Harley's advice. If you persist in Plan A, he will persist in thinking he can get away with thoughtless behavior. Plan B protects you. He and he alone will make the decision to go through MW program with you. By going to Plan B, you are making it clear that your old M is dead. You are open to a new M when your needs are met.

Cherished

[ May 06, 2004, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Thanks, Cherished. I posted on other thread.

My sister kept telling me that he needs to have consequences for his behavior. But I don't know what kind of consequences are. The only thing is a D, that is D. Is that a consequence?

Lostnhurt,
D is a consequence. Harley has a book called "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders". As a very amateur therapist, I would say that you and I have had similar marriages -- we have been Renters married to Freeloaders. We have thought that by sacrificing (you have two jobs, for example), we would earn our husband's willingness to meet our needs, but our husband has had the Freeloader philosophy that he'll do what he pleases and things should work out fine if the wife is an appropriate fit.

I taped Harley's advice from his radio show (I'm blessed to be in the Twin Cities area) to a woman whom he labeled as a Renter who was engaged to a man he labeled as a Freeloader. I will put it on the MB forum as soon as I type it up. Basically, you are arguing with him that he should go through the program, and he doesn't care what you think. He cares about doing what he pleases. If you think in his terms, which is those of a selfish adolescent, then your best approach is to make him grow up by making him realize that your M will only survive if he is willing to consider the needs and feelings of the other members of his family and not just do what he pleases and blame whoever it is convenient to blame.

Telling you this reminds me of what my H said when OWH told me of the A: "I think Sophia is trying to destroy our marriage." Sophia did not control Tom's actions, and neither do/did I... HE was the one to make the choices, just as he is now.

Personally, I think the sooner you go to Plan B, the better. I hope to post that radio program dialogue for you within a few days.

You'll feel calmer if you realize that it's up to him. You can only do your part.
Cherished

PS I also recommend that book -- "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders".

[ May 06, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Its okay to be in plan B

I was afraid to go into it too in first place. I was afraid of losing him. I was afraid that i will be pushing him to OW. You think plan B is about them but it is NOT. Plan B is for us.

Now you feel lost and helpless. Plan B will make you feel good and happy again. Dont you want to feel happy and at peace again? No need to worry about WH??? Read all the postings from all those doing plan B and you will see a big difference.

I saw that book in the seminar. But I didn't realize that is what about. I may check in the library. Now I am concentrate on my own grwoth, I mean in wisdom.

My sis said the same thing, Wh has to grow up. he can't act like as he is now. But Believer has another point of view, she said that he is better than many other WH b/c he is alway available for the kids. He is kind to the kinds. Whne he is home, he is more willing to share the work. She was confused by how he answer the En questionare. She said that he couldn't find any major issues, but picked small things. Is this foggy or just his personality?

My WH dots on our daughter very much. If you see them together you will definately say they love each very much. He was also very giving and helps a lot at home. He still maintains until today that i am a good wife and he could not find anything WRONG with me. He was a devoted catholic. He was a caring person etc etc.

Now he dont care one bit about how this affair is destroying our marrige. He does not feel anything about our daughter asking when he will come home. He does not care that this affair is causing me pain and humiliation. He no longer pray or go to church. He shows no respect to me by talking to her and answering her calls in FRONT of me. He is so proud OW gave him a new Handphone.

IT IS ALL FOG.

This is the same symptom each one of the WS out there goes through.

Zizzy, I mean that he actually is better after D-day. He is nicer to kids, takes more responsibilities for chores. When I came home late, he would cook for me and have dinner waiting for me, given that if he is home.

The biggest problem is his thoughtless acts when I was availble for kids, he would xoom out for his pleasure, and he doesn't want to be with me. He is so withdraw and distant. He just want a D. I think in my case, a bad M is worse than the A. He claimed that the A is over, but at the same time he said our M is also over. He kept saying it is not OW, it is between us. I don't know whether a Plan B will work in this case. Plan B will just seperate us forever.

If you are in recovery then hang on there. Give him EN as much as you can. Plan A the best you can.

If you are in plan A while the affair is still going on then it is time to consider plan B if you have had enough.

If you havent tried plan B...then you should consider. Plan B is for you. Enough of giving and giving. In plan B you work on yourself and make yourself happy. If you keep to plan B long enough eventually you reach a point where YOU DONT GIVE A DAMN about WH anymore. You will no longer feel afraid of WH leaving. You will no longer feel afraid of WH marrying OW. You will feel strong. Dont you remember feeling happy and at peace one time ago??? Dont you miss feeling calm? Dont you wish you no longer feel or care so much about WH?

If you want all this then do plan B. Keep dark for 2 months and you will see what i am talking about. Now you are so full of emotions you dont understand what i am trying to say about plan B. You need to do plan b then you will understand.

ZZizy, I know what you mean. I am more toward to go. I need to pray very hard and need help in the concrete steps.

1. How to deal with children?

2. How deal with financial? We have a lot of stocks, how to split them?

3. I do I approach him about it? He talked about moving out few times, but never had action. Do I just tell him to move?

I am very very confused and hurt.

Is he still having the affair or not?

If not then you should give your relationship a chance to work. Plan A the best you can.

You will be okay. Dont rush it. Take oneday at a time.

Are you very sure he has ended it? Since i have had 3 false recoveries...i know the symptom of WH being withdrawn...empty...miserable with you...etc etc...to me it all points out to WH still doing the Affair behind your back. Maybe you should make sure about that first.

If you are very very sure it has ended then work hard on recovery. Dont give up so easily. You fought hard for WH right? So give him some time. Just plan A okay

Hugs to you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Is he still having the affair or not?
<hr /></blockquote>That is the part i don't know and that is why I hastitate. He claimed the A ended and the M ended too.

Do I hire a PA to chack out first?

sorry lost that i'm just now getting to reply to you today. you pretty much know where i'm coming from and that even though we both have a WS we're not in the same position, does that make sense? well anyway, what i'm trying to say is take from what i say as you will but know i want to support you in your decisions.

however, i'm just going to gently remind you of some of the things you have said in your posts,

remember, you can't have any expectations of your H right now

didn't you say that if he went to the MBW and afterwards he still wanted to separate then he could do it then?

continue to do the lessons because you are still to try and make yourself better and strong so that when/if he comes back you're prepared and also that this never happens to you again regardless whether or not things work out in your M.

i still see some signs in your H that i would consider "good." still don't think it's hopeless and i don't think that you want to give up even though you are getting extremely exhausted. if you understand and believe in the MB concepts and you are counseling w/SH then continue to do those things and these are all to help you! but if you feel that you can't plan A anymore then it's time for plan B. just because you're in plan B doesn't mean you have to get a D either. when you talk to SH tomorrow bring him up to date and tell him what Dr. Harley is also telling you (IMO it sounds like they differ a little in their counseling to you). If your goal is still to rebuild your M, which i believe it is then you know SH (and us) will help and support you in that even if you do plan B.

i think just working on a plan B letter will help you out. so do some drafts and post it here and we will let you know what we think. but until you give your H the PBL still do plan A!!!!!!!1 don't give him any reason to not think your actions are following your words and that you say you want to work on the M but are now going back to the way you were, does that make sense? remember again, that this is a race, a marathon and not a sprint, the cruise gave you some energy to get through the next leg of the race. your H DID go to the MBW, a lot of us don't have H's that did that. also keep in mind that you want to be able to look back and say that you did everything you could. so now you can take comfort in knowing that your H at least went to the MBW and you won't think back down the road, "if only my H had gone to the MBW that would have made a difference."

as SH said this is a chipping away process, and you're still doing a beautiful job, this will be a masterpiece when you're done! start comparing yourself to Job from the old testament and think of all he endured and he still plugged along, you've got to do the same. you know that God is all powerful and all knowing and you are one of his children. we all have our moments when we have doubts and weaknesses because we're are still wounded and not getting much in return from our H. you could also ask SH if there are any more books that he would recommend you read. i'm going to do this myself next week.

still wishing you much strength, and sending you continued prayers and hugs and wish i could do more to help, we all wish we could do that for each other. but we can pray and "the effectual prayer of a righteous man availeth much." God is still the best counselor of all, he's free and always available, and will always give you what you need. leave your worries at his feet and let him carry you to where you need to go. love, RR

RR, you know that i DO want to stay in Plan A and i am good at it. At leasrt from WH's comments. But all the other advices are telling me to go to plan B, even Dr. Harley.

What do I do?

If I stay in Plan A, people said that you are a doormat, you've suffered enough.

If i am in Plan B, I risk the chance to jump into it too soon, plus, I even don't know he is still in his A.

I will pray really hard and have GOD make the decision for me. I will also talk to SH, WH will talk to him too. WH said he willlisten to the CD tonight as scheduled.

you are a lot like me and want things to be specific and i'll try to be more that way but again, i can only give my opinion. ultimately you have to go w/what you are comfortable w/because AGAIN, you want to be able to look back and say that you did all you could. the only regrets that are allowed is on the behalf of the WS, that they DIDN'T GIVE THE BS A FAIR CHANCE. I'm sure God will continue to reveal his plan for you in some way it's just hard to wait, nothing will ever make it more easier to wait.

I would hire a PI to make sure he is still having an A. you don't really need a lot of evidence to convince you so it shouldn't cost that much. i hired a PI to find out the OW address and names of her parents (she lives w/them) and it only cost $50.00.

i would stay in plan A until you feel comfortable going into plan B.

talk to SH and be ecstatic that your H is going to as well.

i don't know about you but i write down stuff between my sessions w/SH so when things come to mind i will be able to relate them to him and then get his advice. it could be anything about if my H says or does this then what do i do or say? ask him to be specific w/you. SH has told me exact things to say, he's repeated it and given me time to write it down and i feel this is a great help to me. i don't know if you were going to talk to SH first then your H or if you were both going to be on the phone at the same time. be confident in the fact that if your goal is still to save your M that SH will help you do what is needed. so if given your situation he feels that plan B is needed then you've got to pray on it and then do it. ask SH to tell you if he thinks it's time for that or not. to be technical that's what we pay counselors for is to help us and "tell us what to do." for lack of a better way to say it.

AGAIN, take one day at a time, chip away the best you can, and stay the course. walkingoneggs has been dealing w/his WW waffeling for 2 years, he has amazing resolve and maybe he'll pop in here and give you suggestions as well. i personally think 6 months of plan A is a good timeline to have, others would probably disagree. so if you feel comfortable w/that timeline too then that would bring you into july (6 months past DDay), so consider that too, prayers to you.

[ May 06, 2004, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Lostnhurt,
I am comparing my feelings and experiences to yours, which may be unfair. We did not separate because I wanted to be in Plan A and work out our M. In actual fact, I was not a doormat. I was a Renter. I thought that my sacrifices would influence him. WRONG!

I needed to become a Buyer who looks for win-win solutions and expects them. H disappearing is not win-win. It is win-lose, you sacrificing for your H's pleasure. A Buyer doesn't tolerate that sort of disregard.

I had a long, long thread on private e-mail with Harley about sacrifice and Christian view of sacrifice as holy, and he convinced me that sacrifice is disasterous in M. The more you sacrifice, the more your Freeloader H takes advantage of you.

Lostnhurt,

Let me recommend waiting on the Plan B for now. Why, you ask? I think there needs to be a time showing him a solid Plan A.

In this Plan A, make sure there are NO LB's. I would recommend that you start to take care of yourself and show him that you are willing to be happy with him or without him. I found that once my wife saw that I was able to be happy with or without her things began to change. Do things with the kids away from the home. A happy spouse is an attractive spouse.

I know that much of what we post her allow us to vent. Please ask yourself if the anger, hurt or depression is visible when he looks at you. Does he hear these feelings in between the lines of your conversation? I'm not saying ignore your feelings. I'm saying that in the Plan A phase show him everything that he "says" he's willing to give up so easily. Be the best wife, friend and lover in Plan A. Remember when/if you do go dark you want to look back at your Plan A with no regrets or "what if's?".

Titleist

LNH,

I posted to your other tread, but my comment on Plan B--don't do it until you're ready. If you're sure you're not ready and you try, you may blow it like I did. I wasn't ready. I still had too much love left.

However, don't wait TOO long. As you Plan A with him acting selfish and immature, it will drain your love. If you start feeling like you'd like to just get out, you better jump to Plan B immediately.

I'm sort of stuck now. I ended up waiting and now I'm not sure I care if WH comes back. Also, what Cherished wrote about renters and freeloaders hits home. My WH, while he was my life, was a definite freeloader. It has been brought to my attention by many people (including the IC that we both saw) that he is very immature and extremely self-centered. All things must revolve around him or benefit him or he wants nothing to do with them, and has no qualms about letting others know that.

It is rare for him to take the blame for anything. He shifts the blame for why he's angry, why he drinks, why he ran into the car in front of him, and why he is having the A to other people. It frustrates me when he isn't willing to "own" his behavior.

I agree with Cherished that the only way to make these people grow up is probably to set down rules of what it's going to take. If you Plan A forever, they'll just take advantage of you forever.

Lot's of rambling. Probably not much advice. I guess, I'm just saying I understand, and I believe you will feel better in time. Keep taking it day by day.

LL

LL, your advice is very valuble. I know what you mean that he is taking advantage of me. That wass how I felt, but I didn't know how to deal with it. I am ready for Plan B and not ready. I will not make any decision now. I will see whar Steve has to say.

We also have another lesson time to go. i don't know what his reaction will be. We also have to decipline DS to. Please check my other thread about S and add comments. Hugs.

Lostnhurt, I finished the transcript of the Renter/Freeloader relationship and put it on its own thread so that I wouldn't clutter up yours. Thinking like a Renter, you may want to convince your Freeloader husband to go through the program. Thinking like a Freeloader, he may think that the very fact that the program is necessary means that the marriage is over. He shouldn't have to change for you. There's nothing wrong with him. He just hasn't found the right woman. There is an underlying assumption to a Freeloader's view that he shouldn't have to change. You can sacrifice all you want and it makes no difference to him. You can try to convince him all you want and it doesn't matter.

Hope this helps --

Cherished

One more P.S. It doesn't matter if he is still in the A or not. What you see is enough to prove that he is willing to disregard your feelings and do what he pleases.

[ May 06, 2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

LNH,

I did read your other post about your S's discipline issues and my heart goes out to you. He sounds like he's acting out and I'm sure the things going on in his life right now are difficult for him.

I didn't feel qualified to offer any advice because I struggle frequently with my DD's behavior. She's had issues before this A started (and now looking back, I'm sure the chaos of the house when WH was drinking off and on didn't help).

I'm hoping all the people that have posted advice to me for DD will see your thread and give you some wonderful ideas as well.

LL

just checking in w/you today and see how you're doing? keep your chin up, you are capable of more than you ever dreamed. prayers to you, RR

Last night I didn't get home till 9pm. WH took care of the kids, it seemed things were little bit in order. Kids did their homework and dinner was waiting for me. Except that Wh was withdraw, when he saw me came home, he head straight to the coputer. I was left to deal with everything. Then D asked him whether she can sit her friend's dog for next week. He said ask mommmy. She turned around to ask me. I told her I have to discuss with dad. She said he told me to ask you. I said dad want to respect mommy's opinion, that is why. When we discuss it, we will let you know.

I took very short time to finish my dinner and clean up, check their homeworks, and had them brush their teeth to go to bed. But S has to come down to talk about his action. When they were brushing their teeth, I talked quickly with WH.

First about the dog, he said a week seems too long, but it is hard to refuse her, how about weekends. I said good idea, I thought a week is too long, but couldn't come up with a better idea than rejecting her. Bingo, POJA. It ended up her friends said dogsitting was not needed when I told D about our decision. But we were all happy about the solution.

Then we talked about S's consequences. He said that there is not much to take a way from him, he has no computer game, not much TV watching, going outside to play is necessary for him. He sort of complaining about no Cable. I told him that I am thinking to put the cable back, but waiting for promotion, then I will discuss with him. he said that you don't need to rush about that, they don't need the cable, their study is more important. I told him that I was thinking to change the TV in kitchen too, it is very old, we bought it used when we first got married. He said that you can decide. So we came back the subject about S's consequence. About his lying(he didn't tell me the truth until the teacher told me), he can not watch TV for a week. Then he has to write a paragraph to appolozgize to the girls and a list of 10 positive things to do. He has to read it to the girls during recess today.
When S heard about these, he was so angry and cried. He said that I am mean to him. I told him that these are mom and dad's decision and you have to take consequence for what you did. if you don't want to have these consequence, then don't do bad thing again. I told him that it is ok for him to feel bad, but mom and dad love him, what we do is tough love. I hope he understands, of course i am talking to WH too.

After S went to bed, I quickly came down and got the CD of lessons out. We just sit there listened, this time he didn't whine. But the assigment was to read the book HNHN the frist 2 chapters, but he doesn't want to, just kept listening. Until, it said you need to stop here to do something else. I asked him to read the book with me, he just acted like a little kid who doesn't want to work, but don't know how to say no. So finally I said, why don't you turn the computer off, we will read it upstairs. He did. Praise GOD, it is not like the old him. So I went upstairs first, but for a while, he was not up yet, well, he was there doing dishes. i said I can do it tomorrow. He said it is not a hard task, just putting the dishes to dish washer and turn it on, you were not doing it, I will do.(????) Finally he got up, while he was brushing his teeth, I was praying so hard that to have him stay and read the book. When his done, he said he want to go to bed in the guest room, he was too tired. I said how about the reading. He look so reluctant, I said how about i read it too you, you just listen. He said ok. I read the first chapter of HNHN which is about the affair. I really praise GOD, I couldn't do it myself.

This morning, I told him that I was listening a book on the tape THE four agreement, a practical Guide for personal Freedom. I said that it is a good one, do you want to listen? He said what is it? I knew he is afraid that it is marriage thing again. But I said it is about personal growth. I already listened to the first tape and listening the 2nd one. He took the tape. Whehter he listens in the car, I don't know, but at leat he didn't refuse. I just feel so amazing. I am not overly enthusiastic, I just see a little bit attitude change. I keep prasing GOD.

Now I am listening to the message about Obediance. It is so good, for some moment I want to cry, not the sad one, but some movement.

We will talk to SH at 12 ET. He will talk first half hr, I will be the 2nd half. He will call Sh from work. Please pray for us to have good talk. Like RR suggest, I have to write down the the things I want to talk first.

okay sweetie, definite big time prayers coming your way for your session today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RR, can you give me some idea what to ask SH? I am very confused myself, it maybe easier for someone else to see it clearly.

well i will try, I feel like you are doing such a good job that you are so much more of an expert then i am. just w/reading some of the things that you say to your H in response to what he says or does is just amazing. it's great that you can think on your feet. but anyway, you've been following how my sessions are going so far so these are some of the things that i'm going to ask next week.

how should i act? like a friend, loving wife, hard to get-my concern is acting too eager

should i share some of the insights and changes that i've had? if so, how?

are there any other books that SH would recommend?

what to say when my H says things like "i was just so unhappy for so long and i gave you years to change and this is what it took." or "i just can't go back" or "you'll meet someone else."

how should i approach the subject of another session w/SH now that my H know it's w/MB? (my initial approach was that the counseling was to help me and that it would mean a lot to me if SH could get his perspective to help me but know that he knows it's MB and has talked to SH once, what can i say or when should i say to see if he would talk to him again).

how do i handle the upcoming special occasions? anniversary next month, H's bday in july, he will be graduating from college this year.

the other things i have written down are really specific to my situation. but if i were you i would want to ask SH about how to act or what to say when your H doesn't want to do the lessons or is dragging his feet or is continuing to come home late or not at all. but honestly, i think you are doing such a good job already. i guess my concern now would be after your H talks to SH today and SH gets his perspective then what? SH will be able to tell you just how much you should initiate or push things, does that make sense? he might tell you to be extremely cautious when it comes to asking your H to participate in the lessons, i don't know, maybe he'll just keep telling you to do what you're doing.

ask SH how much you are enabling your H to continue his behavior and if you are still on the right track w/plan A based on his discussion w/your H today. i would ask SH to be specific w/you and even ask him to tell you exactly what to say. now again, these are just my opinions and suggestions and i'm just basing these on my interactions w/SH and what i've read on the forums. i could totally be off base. but i think if Sh can be specific w/you that will help you a lot. just one quick example, say for instance your H is out all night and doesn't come home until 2 am, would leaving a note in a place where he would see it be a good idea that just simply says "hope you had a good night and thank you for doing the dishes, see you tomorrow, lostnhurt." nothing mushy, but something caring and appreciative and hopeful for the future.

i hope this gives you some ideas, i'm just kind of pulling things out of the air. just continue to remind yourself not to have expectations of your H and sometimes expect the worse that way you will always be prepared. hugs and prayers to you, RR

[ May 07, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

RR, you are such a good friend. Thank you so much. So are good one to ask, I will put them in my list.

Just called Wh and remind him to talk to Sh. He said he forgot the phone #, so I e-mail it to him. I have to pray now.

Wh called and told me that SH was not there. You know how SH is running late usually. He was using that as excuses for not talking to him.

Just got a hold of SH now and gve him WH's cell number, I hope that they talk. I will be home waiting for Sh to call back. Please pray for us.

lostnhurt I will give you my take on Plan B. I really didn't want to go into Plan B either, but after Jennifer explained to me that I could do plan A but the blatent disrespecting of my feelings being done by my W by living with OM and all the LB'ing I was doing I would be better off in Plan B. I know my first thoughts were how will my W know that I care about her if I don't talk to her. Then after I wrote my Plan B letter (which Jennifer said was a great one) I thought that if my W can't see that I care for her after I poured my heart and soul into that letter, then there is something really wrong with her. The first week is really hard because there are so many thoughts running through your head. The second week gets better and the third week I was actually getting back to being my old self. My wife sent me an email into week 3 saying she wanted to talk, it was about one of those easy DV places on line. Anyways my wife broke my Plan B for me when she came in our house on her own and disreguarded my boundries. So to make a long story short I think that my W wanted to see me, the paper she had in her hands she could have easily sent me the link via email, mailed it to me, or just dropped it off in the mailbox when she came to pick up her mail. After contact I went right back to square one but it only takes a couple of days to get over that as opposed to the three weeks it took to get to that point. Hang in there lnh.

lostnhurt,

Inthe mist of this storm in your life ... keep this promise for you ...

"For I know the plans I have for you,'declares the LORD,' plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plan to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11.

As painful as my life experience it was, I know that I will have a fullfiling M with my next mate and a fullfiling R with HIM.
-rh-

great verse RH, thanks a lot for sharing that, it's amazing how these verses mean different things at certain times in our lives.

lost,
i hear what you're saying about SH running behind, i understand that every call is important, but at the same time if you are a BS who's spouse is trying to call SH and can't because he's running behind, it gets extremely anxious and nerve racking and i wish there was a better solution to this. SH was running so far behind the last week that i had to reschedule. i think this is disrespectful in a way. i'm not rying to lessen anything someone is going through but we all need to keep this in mind when we talk to SH and keep our eye on the clock and i think SH needs to at some times needs to really keep people to the time limit. if he can't do this then he needs to stop having appointment so close together.

anyway, that's a totally different subject along w/the cost of the counseling session. i sure pray that your H ended up talking to SH and that you were able to get some clarity from your session w/SH. prayers to you, your friend, RR

RH, thanks for sharing the wisdom from above.

RR and my other friends, thank you for all the prayers.

Sh was late to call WH. But he did talk to him, the conversation ended short b/c WhH had a meeting, and the boss was there. So SH called me back. Here is what his advice:

1, Keeping doing what I've been doing. B/c whatever I was doing, it made significant progress. I was a little bit doubt about it. But he said, look, your WH turned from an absolutely unwilling person, to talkingto SH, and attended the MBW. Sitting there for 10 hr., and did the lessons, even unwillingly. I need to give him credit and time to digest.

2. I have to be very careful. Not to push him.

3. Be very caustious for Plan B, b/c we don't know what it is going on with him. We can not make assumption. He said, maybe he was sitting in a bench over night, or in a bar, or casino, or A. Who knows. But have to find out what it is first. Then we talked about whether we need to find out. He said that if he continues disappearing like this for couple more weeks, it maybe time. Then to decide for Plan B or not.

He told me that as long as Wh listening to the CD, he will be exposed to the ideas, seeds are planted. It takes time to grow. In terms of meeting his need, I need to be creative b/c he is not letting me.

After finished talking to SH, it was almost 2pm. My father had an appointment with Dr. at 2. SO I rushed to his apt. It was 2:30 when we wer in Dr. office. We waited for 2 hrs. to be seen. So I called WH and asked him whether he can go home to take care of the kids. He said ok. But when we got out of the Dr. office at about 5:15pm, he called. he said his boss asked him to the bar, he can not refuse. Do I believe that? No. But I said ok. But he has to send the kids to Chinese school tomorrow, b/c I have to teach. He said he will be home tonight. It is 10:20pm, where is he? I don't know. I don't care.

I had to take my father to the pharmacy. He doen't drive and doesn't speak English. It took me more than an hours to come back home for a 25 min. drive in regular traffic. By the time I was home, it was almost 7pm. I was exauhsted. Then I cooked dinner and had the kids take the bath. Then they had to finish their Chinese home work. I was so mad at WH. Those home work were from the week I went to cruise. Last week we went to MBW, they even didn't get the hwk. So that means the whole week when I was out, he just took them to Chinese school, but didn't have them to do the home work. This week, I work 3 evening and came home at 9pm. He didn't help them to do anything. So the kids only worked on Wed, and tonight. They couldn't finish.

Now I think that I will continue a little bit long on Plan A. Whenever it is time to Plan B, I will go for it. SH said that Plan B is not to punish WH, it is to protect myself. If I can do Plan A longer, I should.

LNH,

I read your post. I'm too tired to write my normal novel to you. I'm eating a late dinner (thank you "carry-out") and am going to bed early for me.

You are a very strong woman (and a very dedicated mom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). I agree with SH. Give it a couple weeks and see if things improve or if they just stay the same and then make your decision. I think there is still a lot of love left in you for your WH, and based on my own experience, if you still have very strong feelings for your WH, it is very hard to do Plan B without caving in if they call you all the time.

LL

I am extremely weak now, physically and mentally. He didn't come home now since last night, no phone call. I couldn't sleep again. The anxiety level was so high. I kept praying and reading the Bible whole night.

Now I have to go teaching. Class starts at 8am, he is still not home. he said he would take the kids, where is he? DO I just leave?

I paged him. He just call back and told me he is coming. I was so mad, but didn't LB. I told him I am very hurt by his act. He said why do I have to report you? I said you are still my husband, it is very inconsiderate to be like this. He said he just want to be away.

I cried so hard on the phone. DId I LB? He said we will talk this afternoon.

Lostnhurt -

Sorry you had such a miserable night. You are right, it was very inconsiderate of your H. He is still in the fog, and I think still addicted to OW.

I think I would start writing Plan B letter. Don't look at it as a failure, just the next step in saving your marriage. Try to time it right, where it will be convenient for you. That way you will get off to a good Plan B start.

Just start working on a letter, and then bide your time to give it to him. Many WS's will continue the affair in Plan A. But Plan B wakes them up.

It also gives you peace and comfort.

You are not LB'ng at all.

Does your WH acknowledge your plan A ?
Acknowledge that you are changed ?

-rh-

Believer, I feel so sad now. I don't know how to write this Plan B letter. I even don't know he has the A or not. What is the condition for contact?

RH: he told me today. He feel that I bacame very strange now, he doesn't what I think and what I want. I asked him that is the change good or bad. He said that there is no standard for good or bad. Than I said do you like my change. he didn't answer. He just said he didn't know how long it will last. He said let's seperate and see what happen.

Believer, did you recieve my pictures?

LNH,

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it seems to me if he's acting this way (staying out all night, talking about separating, not recognizing the effort you are making) that he is either still in the A, or thinking that if he gets out he might be able to continue it.

It's some of the behavior I got from my WH after the first time he and OW became physical, and was when he was telling me that was all over with and that it only happened once. He was still seeing her and being honest about it, but was telling me nothing was going on. (It was before I found MB).

I found later that things were still continuing on a very physical level the whole time.

I have no room to talk about Plan B and when to do it, obviously! But I agree that you should be preparing your letter. As a starting point, use some of the examples on here, or the one in SAA, if you have the book.

LL

Sis and talk about how to Plan B.

1. How to due with kids. We think that he should be responsible for them, but don't want him to get away to easy. But don't want him to just visit lightly with no responsibilities. She suggested to have the kids each person per week, is that fiar for the kids? If I take care of kids all the time, is that fair to me?

2. I still don't want to do it, is there alternatives?

I am weak, very weak. Please help.

LNH I think your weak because of all that your H has put you through. How many more sleepless nights will you go through? I think you need to go into Plan B. I want to tell you something Jennifer told me. Plan B is not selfishly just for you, it's for you and your WS, might be the eye opener that he needs to realize that with or withour him you are moving on. If you don't like the way he's treating you and he's hurting you so much, how much more can you take? JMHO

Timan, I know all your said. My sis said the same thing. I told him that my emotion and logi are fighting. I need to pray very hard.

I will pray for you also lnh.

Timan, thank you for the prayer.

I have these symptoms aain, shaking, cold hand, sad and headache. But I managed to drive home safely. Praise GOD. Sis was worried. I called her.

When I came home, WH was here. But now he is taking a nap. What do I do with an H like this. If I talk to him, what should I say? Talk about how to seperate? Since this is what he wants, he will get it. Do we come up with an agreement of some sort?

Lostnhurt -

I really think it is time to write the Plan B letter. Your WH is going to make you sick. You can do this. Plan B will make you stronger.

It is obvious to me that your WH is still having an A. Married men do not stay out all night, unless something is going on. I know you don't want to hear this. But it is the truth.

Don't look at Plan B as the end. It is the best way to get your H back. It will force him to depend on OW for all of his needs.

Letter should be something like this:

Dear H -

I love you and always will. I am sorry for the things I have done to bring our marriage to the state it is in.

When we married, it was my desire to be with you for the rest of our lives. It has now come to the point that you are unhappy. As a wife who loves you, I cannot keep you here against your will.

To preserve my love for you, please have no contact with me unless you feel you can truly commit to the marriage.

The children love and need you. I am confident that we can work out a schedule for them to spend time with you.

Should I discuss the seperation with him today and hand him the letter?

Lost..listen to Believer and the rest...they have been there and know what they are talking about...you know with the way WS is treating you now is affecting your health ...you need to be strong for your children hon...you will be in my thoughts and prayers...

[ May 08, 2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]

MO, thank you. I will do it. But when? I don't knwo whether I should wait till Monday to talk to Dr. Harley or SH, or just just do it today.

Lostnhurt -

There is no hurry. Wait til Monday and talk to the Harley's. But you do need to start thinking about Plan B. Also get your letter ready.

You may be able to work out the start of Plan B so it is the best timing for you. When are you done teaching?

Plan B is wonderful. You will be able to concentrate on you and family, and will not be sick and hurting all of the time.

My WH is still with OW, but I am doing fine. I am closer to my boys than ever. We do things together and have fun. I don't have to worry about what WH is up to.

Today I got the tub for a pond. I am going to have a backyard pond with koi. I have some water plants from last year and am going to work on pond today.

Hope you can move on to Plan B, and get your life back. I am very worried about you. You work too hard, and get too little sleep. Let your WH go, I really think he will be right back. Right now, he is not thinking about you and family. But that can change.

I am not in hurry at all. I will be done teaching by the end of June. Then I will be free. New semester will start in Sept., but that is too far.

Wh slept fo 3 hrs this afternoon, who knnow what he did last night.

When he got up, he sat in front of the computer again. After sedning D to her friend' Bar Mitsva, I asked Wh to take a walk, he refuse. So I asked him what he likes for dinner, he said anything. So I cooked chickend wing and cauliflower. Wh said S wants McDonald's checken nuggets, I said let's ride a bike there. He said, you can go with him. I decide to just not go. S loved what I cooked.

After dinner, S asked whether dad and mom can go a bke riding with him. Once again, Wh sai d mom can go with you. S just went out, he already used to be w/o dad. By the time i went out, he was playing ball with neighbor's kids. So I told him to keep playing, b/c I want him to have more interaction with the kids.

When I came in, I found WH was clean up S's room. S had nose bleeding so much, the few spots in the wall was full of bloody boogers. I tried to clean few times, but they all sticked there. I was thing to paint over them. He was trying very hard and complaining, how could you stand such ugly things. I said you are really good at cleaning, you did a good job. let me help. He stopped his complain. Then he tried to to the headboards in the guest room's bed, but the bed was bigger then it, he had to give up. I thought at least it is an excercise that can get him moving.

Then his sat in front of the computer again. I got out the lesson CD, we did our 3rd lesson. When we almost done, D called and asked to pick her up. So he left to picked her up now. I said I will read him one more chapter of HNHN. He said ok. I hope he will when he came back.

lostnhurt -

I cooked chicken too. Also made some potato salad. It was yummy.

I went to the garage sales this morning with my 2 friends and found "His Needs, Her Needs" for only 50 cents. I read the first couple chapters.

Hope your H will do the homework with you.

Sounds like there was some good food being prepared. On my end, I was busy with the house and forgot to eat this evening. I ended up painting my fingernails (trying to get ready for this Florida trip I don't want to take on Monday), and then I fell asleep on my bed waiting for them to dry.

I woke back up at 3:45am and couldn't sleep so have been up since then. Normally I'd try to sleep some more, but I have to get up at this time Monday morning to catch the flight I'm on, so figured if I stay up now, I'll be good and tired early tonight.

LNH, I think it's promising that your WH is willing to listen to the lessons. I know he's not where he needs to be yet, and Plan B may well be in your very near future. But if he didn't care at all I don't think he'd do the lessons at all.

LL

LNH,

You've been silent on this thread today. I haven't had time to check your others.

I hope things are going better for you and that you and your H got a chance to do your lessons.

I am flying to Florida early tomorrow morning so am taking care of some last minute posts on here and then I won't be back on until Wednesday night or Thursday.

I'll miss all you guys!

LL

hello lost,
i don't have computer access away from work so i'm just now getting caught up on your posts and wanted to check in with you. again, i think you know pretty much from where i stand but in regards to what has transpired lately this is my opinion.

as long as your h is doing part of the lessons and talking to SH,i wouldn't plan B. that's not to say that you can't work on a letter and at least be prepared to give it should the need arise. you have talked to SH and agree to what he says so continue to do that.

you can still plan A if your H is out of the house and just because he moves out, it doesn't mean that is when you give him the PBL. that may be indeed when you give it to him but i'm just saying that a + b doesn't always = c in these cases. go w/what SH says. you know you can't control or change your H so if he leaves then let him but SH said not to do things to help it along. now of course, i don't have kids so i don't necessarily have that to worry about. but we have a lot of bills and a house, we're not in the same state, and my H's income is not the greatest.

i still don't think in your heart that you are ready to do plan B. because when and if you do that you have to stick to it until he agrees to the terms you have laid down. i think if you did plan B and your H contacted you or did something then i think you wouldn't be able to stick to NC w/him and that's not what you want to happen. you didn't get to talk to SH very long friday so talk to him again this week and get more focused. but always stay the course.

keep up the prayer and keep working on you, continue not to have any expectations of your H, and continue your great plan A. prayers to you, RR

RR, thank you for your insight. I am not ready for Plan B at all. My emotion wants Plan A, my logical thinking wants Plan B. But if I have to I will, I know that it the right plan.

Yesterday was a long and good day, I considered. In the mornig, kids gave me gifts. They seldom gave me gifts, except cards made by themselves. Wh never gave me anything, b/c I didn't give him too much etiher. I thought whateve he wants he can tell me to buy, boy I was so wrong. Kids told me that Wh took them out to buy the gifts when I was in cruise. I was so moved.

The gifts were six different color polo shirts. They were all size S, but were definitely too big for me. When I put them on, kids said it was like my sleepware. I just thank the kids and him and smiled a lot. I really wanted to returned them and changed. But Wh said it lloked good on me, and said that if I washed them they will shrink. So I put all od them in the washer and left for Church. I did invite Wh to go with me, he said that you father doesn't go to church, why do i have to go. I told him that whehter he wants to go, it is his decision.

After we came back from church, it was almost 3pm. He was home. I asked him that whether we can go to buy the computer for my dad he promised a while ago and spend some time with my parents. He said ok. While we arrived the computer store, the roads were blocked by poilicy. We saw them standing behind the policy car and holding guns to one direction, one policy was holding a shut gun infront of the store. But it didn't see to be to tense. So we decided to go grocery shopping fisrt. After we came back, the police were gone, but the store was closed. It was after 5pm.

Then we went to parent's apartment for dinner. Wh was fixing my dad's computer. He cleaned all the cluster and said that it can be used for a while, but he still needs a new one. We will have to go to the store some other time again. It was good time for the whole family sitting together for dinner. I cooked most of them. One the way home, he complimented me about the food, he said that it was healthy and tasted good. We talked many different things, he kept using the word "we".

When we get home, we had a lot to unload from the car. He was doing all of them while I get the kids for a shower and put them to bed. He usually didn't do any of those things. It was 10pm when the house was quiet and settled down. I asked him whether he wanted to watch a movie. he said ok. So we watched a Chinese movie bought from Toronto. Oh, it was the most boring one I ever saw. The motion was so slow, for almost an hour, there was about 20 sentences talked. Finally he said he was too tired to watch such a boring movie. I agreed and stopped. I asked him whehter he want to sleep in my room, he said no, I can not sleep with you. I said ok, good night.

This morning, I realized that I forgot one thing. So i told him right away. I told him that I was very happy yesterday and appreciate everything he did.

I wish everyday is like yesterday. Even though I want him to be more intimate to me. Every time he is with us, he is depositing LU to my bank, but when he disappears, it hurts me more. I don't know what to do. If I don't love him, it may hurt less.

it sounded like a good day to me too, remember it's a chipping away process and things will take time and you are doing such a good job. also remember you want to be able to look back and say you did all you could. the best way i can explain to anyone why i'm "doing" what i'm doing is that because i would rather continue to plan A and drag my feet and then still be hurt by things down the road when/if it doesn't work out than having to live w/the pain that i didn't do all that i could and always wondering what if.

have you talked to your pastor lately and given him an update? when's your next session w/SH? yes, you can be glad at your H's behavior yesterday, the seeds are being planted, you are following your words w/your actions, but don't set yourself up for disappointment by expecting your H to do more of that, okay? hang in there and prayers to you.

OW'H just called. He told me that his W stayed at home most(just most) of the time. But relation is not good. She did not say to move out. I recommend him to come to MB. He said he will look into it.

I don't know what my WH is up to and where he was about for the nights he was out. No contact? not sure, they work in the same company(not the same location), they can have all kinds of contact they want, e-mail, phone, etc.

lostnhurt -

Well it does sound like your WH is trying. He is probably torn, and not knowing what to do. I still think it might be time to get Plan B letter ready.

That way you will know that you have the next Plan ready to go into action, just in case.

Believer, you are very right about everything. Wh kept telling that we need to seperate for a while to see how things go. I think I am ready for that if he insists. I will copy the PNL you wrote and edit it, then post it here for advice.

Plan B might do the trick for you. I have been in my not very good Plan B since September. But it has been enough that I have good days mostly.

WH keeps coming around every 10 days. When he first left, he had no feelings for me. And that was the case for a long time.

Now he is extremely remorseful, says he wishes he had never done what he did, has sleepless nights, and says he just wants our marriage back. So far it is just talk, but he has completely changed the way he talks to me.

Also he now criticizes OW - he says it can never work, it is just a fantasy, she is not a good mother, she claims to be a Christian, but he doubts it.

So I think that just giving them time away to see what they are losing is a good thing.

good morning ladies,
hope your starting the new day fresh. God did give us a new day and we need to use it well. I just had a session w/SH this morning and will post that under my "session" thread. it will take me a while to type everything. i emailed one of the moderators to find out how to change the title. Lost, when is your next session w/SH? have a good day and prayers to all.

Good evening, ladies, especially RR, Believer, LLL and all other friends.

It is a long and busy day for me, just finished teaching. I have to prepare my class a little bit and get the tests ready too.

This morning, S's school has invited all moms for breakfast. So I went with S. His teacher told me again that he needs conseling, but WH doesn't agree, now I am in between.

After that I went to see a client for mortgage paper. It was a long drive, they are in the northern part of the town. After getting all the documents and signed papers, i had to drive to the southern part of the town to the company for processing. I drove 100 miles today and haven't had lunch yet, only a big breakfast(a big bagel). When I arrived home, it was 2pm. I took a little rest, and picked up D for a physical. She needs that for her track.

Then I dropped her back, and rushed to the office and get ready for my classes. I even didn't have enough time to copy the tests, the secretary left the office 5pm on time. So I have to wiat till Thursday. Now just get out of class. What a day, I want to sleep. But found a message left by D. She said S did not behave again.

I just called home. D said Wh is cutting the lawn. I wish I can sleep now and forget everything. Even today I was so busy, I just couldn't get rid of all the thoughts. How I wish everything is over, my H is back.

lostnhurt -

Hang in there. If teacher says S needs counseling, I would get it for him. Your WH's behavior is starting to effect the whole family. Of course he sees no problem. He is too guilty to admit to his bad behavior.

I want you to get more sleep. I'm worried about you.

Please pray for us. We are supposed to have our lesson now. Please pray that Wh not refuse, and listen and practice.

Lostnhurt -

My prayers are with you and husband. I hope that you will also take care of you.

hoping you were able to do the lesson together and that you got some sleep. if things didn't go well, just start today fresh and remember God has the strength to carry you through all this. prayers to you.

Believer and RR, thank you for your prayers.

We did do the lesson. But we just listen to the CD with no action. It required us to make the list of affections each of us need and practice it. So I asked him what he needs, he said get me off these lessons. I almost laughed. But we got off in about 25 minutes. We both were very tired.

Before the lesson, I talked to S and asked him what is going on with him. He cried so hard and told me that he has a lot of stress and life is miserable for him every year. I was shocked to hear that from an 8 year old. i asked him what made him so stressful and miserable. He said that he did not like school, he is slow, he did not like Chinese school either. I asked him what he liked, he said entertainment(I am very surprised that he didn't use the word play). I told him that I would like him to have entertainment, but also want him to enjoy school work too. I also told him to pray to GOD. He cried again and said I never got anyanswer from GOD. Oh, my poor child. I think I need to talk to him more and get to his insight. Dr. Harley adviced me to put his couseling off a while until WH agrees,b/c I am still in Plan A, I have to show him that I am willing to listening his opinion.

Last night, before the lesson, we discussed a little bit about S. WH said: he doesn't listen to me, you didn't listen to me either. I said when didn't I listen to you? He didn't answer. This morning I told him that I like to hug him and hold him, he said when I wanted to do that you refused. I feel that he started a little bit of complaining now, not like couple months ago, even didn't let me know what it is. It is like going toward the state of conflict now. I hope that it is not my wishful thinking.

RR, you are right about staying in Plan A for a while. I need to follow SH's advice. Please keep praying for me. I will pray for you and all others too. RR, you are doing excellent. You grew so much spiritually. I remember your posts when you just got in. Let's stick together and grow together.

I prayed very hard for Plan A or Plan B. I tried to get rid of my own thought. I will keep praying to get a clear answer.

This morning, after waving good bye to S and WH, I started working outside. I vacumed my van, I vavume his car before he got up. Then I planted some flowers. When I cam in, Wh left me a message asking me whehter to go to S's boy scot camp Sunday. I told him yes. Now he send me an-email confirming about that. We also had a department picnic Saturday, he said he can go too.

I do see that he is willing to go to family functions. But how much is he willing to work on the M? I predivt today is his disappearing day again, becasue I am home. I need to talk to SH about it.

I copied MOM's plan B letter, and edited. Please give me some advice. I hope that I don't have to use it.

Dearest WH,

It is with the greatest pain and tearful eyes that I sit here and write this letter to you. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life! It is truly sad what has happened to our marriage and us. The path that I must take now is not one of choice but one of self-preservation. Please let me explain.

I would first like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I have made many mistakes in the past that cannot be changed. What I have been able to do is recognize those mistakes in judgment and have learned from them so that I can take steps to ensure that they will not occur again. I neglected your needs of sexual fulfillment, failed to give you the praise that you deserved, and judged you disrespectfully. I was selfishly caught up in myself, and with my selfishness and foolishness I helped create a void in our marriage. I failed to recognize the needs that you so badly needed. I ignored your feeling for a long time.

I was too focused on taking care of the kids and not focused enough on taking care of our marriage. I have made it clear to everyone that my time with my family, especially for my wonderful husband, is and will be my number one priority. You will always come first. I want to learn even more about how to be a supportive and loving wife. The type of woman that I hope you would be proud of to call your wife. The same pride I felt so many times when I called you my husband. I want us to build a life together that is built on meeting each others emotional needs and to avoid the things that got us to the place we now find ourselves. I love you, more than you will ever know. I know I have hurt you in the past and I never want to make you feel that way again.

When we married, it was my desire to be with you for the rest of our lives. I love you and always will. It has now come to the point that you are unhappy. As a wife who loves you, I cannot keep you here against your will. The children love and need you. I am confident that we can work out a schedule for them to spend time with you.

To preserve my love for you, please have no contact with me unless you feel you can truly commit to the marriage. Please have any of our communication through our friends D and A, their numbers are: 313-xxx-xxx, their e-mail:
In case of emergency, you can call my cell phone or e-mail me.

I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are willing to commit to our marriage. Meantime, I will continue to keep my faith that I will someday see my Husband again and watch him walk through the doors of the home that was once filled with so much love and laughter. I love you so much and I want nothing more than to rebuild our marriage. I know we CAN have a great marriage and life together!

I will always love you!

Your Loving Wife,

I know that WH is not going to come home. He told me by defaut, he is not coming on the nights I am home. He didn't call. But why do I feel the panic attack? Why do I care? I hate this feeling. I like to feel peaceful. I know that Plan B may get me there.

Believer, are you out there? Please talk to me.

Lostnhurt,
When I went to Plan B, my H eventually figured out he could use just about any excuse to come home -- including cutting his hair.

Go to Plan B with full force. In case of emergency, he can call the third party's numbers, not yours. Plan B means no contact, ever.

Best of luck -- Wish I had done it. It would have been better for me and the children. BUT now the time is past, now for me it is time to be a Buyer as we go through the lessons. Hope your Plan B makes your WH grow up!
Cherished

Cherished, thank you. Long time no talk. How are you doing?

I am not in plan B yet. I have to pray very hard and try to get an answer from GOD. I don't want to get in to ugly situations like arguing.

lostnhurt -

Here I am. What's up? I have been very busy lately. I got a promotion, and more work.

Also remember the little boy that I am teaching English to? Well his mom and dad are having problems. Mom thinks that dad is cheating. Can you believe that? I have been trying to teach her the MB principles in Spanish.

Believer, congradulation on your promotion!

I can't believe so many of these things are happening. I feel sorry for the little boy.

I was just having another panick attack. I hate that WH not coming home. He said he would not come if I can take care of the kids. It sounds that he is doing me a favor. While he was home, he was doing all sort of things which deposits LU. It is killing me. He cut the lawn yesterday. We will go for picnic Sat, boy scout day Sunday. Then he will disappear again. What am I sopposed to do? Do I still have hope? Do i have to go to Plan B to get him back? Dr. said Plan be is to prepare me for D. He post to all others to tell people not to depend on their H.

Lost, you know how badly I was hurting in SF...I love my WH dearly, but his A was killing me...Now that I am in Plan B, I feel much better. I dont have to hear the hurtful babble he says to me...although you saw what happend today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I assure you Plan B is solely to protect US the BS from any more torture. My WH is hurting right now, I am sure of it. I can see the confusion in his eyes, the pain he is feeling, although he says s otherwise. Hang in there sweetie

lostnhurt -

Who told you that Plan B is to prepare you for divorce? To me it is to let WH realize what he is losing.

The other thing it does is let the BS get their self-esteem back, and get stronger. I was so hurt at first, but since being in a fair Plan B, I am doing well everyday.

I've been really busy with my neighbor. She is LBing like crazy. I keep telling her to stop, but she can't.

I just think that you need to detach a little from your WH. It sounds to me like he is trying to do just enough to keep you hanging on.

Mom, thank you for your encouragment. You are hurting so badly, but you still help others. You are really a good person. I do feel that Dad will come back one day.

My Wh is very different. His mind is already set. He thought we were seperated already. He is coming home just to help. He is very distant to me.

lostnhurt -

Chin up, girl. Since I have been here, I have heard many people in your situation that are now happily reconciled. And their WS was just as bad as yours, or worse.

I do think it is going to take Plan B to shake him out of his addiction, but if you can wait until it is more convenient for you, I would do that.

Lost, Dad has been seperated from us for a long time. He was gone months ago...I saw something in your WH in SF...he was much more attached to you than my WH is to me...he was kind and seemed genuinely interested. You saw mine leave before it was even over. Chin up girl. Yes, I am hurting, but so are you. I am not hurting nearly as badly as I was yesterday because I was sitting here waiting for the phone to ring for it to be WH or watiing for him to come home. Now I know he wont call me and I know he wont come home. It is a releif. I am not encouraging you to go into Plan B, but I will tell you that I do feel much better now. I can finally be free and not wait for him.

believer, Dr. H said that Plan B is a preparation for Divorce...

Lost,
It sounds like you are in the same situation as I am. I really need to wait until summer to plan B my H. He watches the kids in the mornings and picks up oldest from kindergarten. I teach and can't take anymore days off and can't deal with all this and work. So, when summer gets here and I don't have to worry about a babysitter every day...plan B. Until then I am going to give my marriage every chance I can.

I feel the same way about Plan B...it's going to drive them away, but eventually something has got to change and that seems the only logical step left.

Wh just called, I didn't picked up the phone. He was asking D to pick up the phone.

I finally went in and asked him where he was about. GUess what he said, by hte lake watching other people fishing. That is the funniest thing I ever heard of.

lol, he has no place to go! Plan B hime!

lostnhurt -

Yikes, so many excuses. Girl you have to detach, detach, detach. Your WH is in the fog - find some things to do until you can Plan B him.

Kids are not behaving. D didn't want to do her homework, she said she did most of them in the librayr before I picked her up. But she has to do HCinese, and play her violin. SHe did not do it. I just don't know what to do.

I know I have to detach, but the thing he was doing keep hooking me back. Do I just not go to family activities with him? Do I not allow him to do any work around the house. I am confused and torned.

Lostnhurt-

One of you is completely lost in the fog. The other one (you) is temporarily the strong one. Come along side your children and help them. Forget about WH. You can do this.

I am quite sure your WH will be back, but until then, you have to detach.

You need to get your emotional/self esteem needs met elsewhere. You have been going too long without.

Take up a hobby - Stained glass, horses, dance, body building, fishing, astronomy, basket weaving, cooking, something.

I know you have a mortgage broker job. I work full time, and also started my own property management company. Plus I do volunteer work at the hospital, help my neighbors son learn English, joined a women's support group, etc.

So I suggest you get busy. You can do this, but right now are too tied up with WH

Believer, you are very right from the bebinning. I know I have to detach. I am working very hard on it. But he kept doing these things making me feel more that he is the H I want. Oh, it is so hard.

How is your WH? Does he still knock on your door?

Last night, I prayed so hard when I went to bed. I prayed that I could sleep without any pilss. But I was semi asleep. S had nose bleed 2 times before bed, then one time after he went to bed while I was still posting. At 1am, I finally took a Xenax to help me calm down my anxiety.

But when I finally fell asleep, WH came back at about 2am. He saw me awake and asked me, there is nothing wrong with the computer, why did you have D call me? I was no idea what he was talking about. Then I said that the computer she had her file in was not working, that I knew. But I didn't have her call you. Now I found out that when he called last evening was not because he thought about D, he just returned D's call. D told him that she has to print her homework out which is due today. He thought I was using D to get him home. I won't do things like that, but I didn't explain. Why would I make things more complicated.

Then at 2:30am, S came to my room, he had nose bleed again, I was semi concious. When he settled down, I fell asleep in his bed. I had to get up at 6am. Now my head is nodding, I think I need to get some more sleep.

This morning, when igot up, WH was up to, I asked him whehter he can send D to school, first he didn't say anything, later he asked me whehter I still need him. I said that I am ok. He went straight to bed again. A church friend called, her husband took her car keys, she was asking me to pick up her D's to two different schools. I drove like being drunk for more than 30 min.

I am tired. I need a rest.

You are tired, and you do need a rest. Can you go to bed earlier? I am concerned about your health or you falling asleep at the wheel.

My WH only comes around every 10 days, just like clockwork. Although the last time it was only 9 days. Then he completely disappears again. So next week I am going to be gone on the 9th and 10th day. Hee Hee.

Did you hear about Mom's WH crawling through the doggie door? Too funny.

lost, i hope it's a good morning for you. i'm sorry i didn't reply more to you yesterday but i just seem to be in some kind of funk and i left work really early and just went home and slept. i'm sure satan has his hand in the way i'm physically feeling and hope that it only lasts a few more days. i know that i need to workout and continue to improve myself physically but finding it's getting harder to do. anyway, that's a whole other topic.

thanks for your words of encouragment and know that i really want to do the same for you. i don't want to keep telling you to stay in plan A if you just don't feel like you can. i just still don't feel that you're ready for plan B. it's good that you did the letter and i won't post that in a separate thread to get more responses. it looked good to me but i'm not exactly the best one to probably critique it. maybe it would be better to just give yourself a timeframe to work with? like someone said above that she's waiting until the kids are out of school, maybe that is a better way to look at it.

i would still write down the questions that you are asking here and discuss them w/SH the next time you talk. about whether or not to continue to do family activities together or let your H do things around the house, etc. I guess i'm kind of confused about why your H says he's not going to come home at night as long as you are there, why wouldn't you be there? it's not like you have a night job or that you are having an A and need to stay out all night. but anyway, ask SH how you are supposed to handle the situations and what you are supposed to say.

again, i don't know how you are feeling and how hard this is for you, i don't have kids and i'm not even in the same state as my H. i don't know why but i actually don't think a lot about what he's doing everyday and if he's going to call etc. SH said that my H can't meet my needs right now so i'mm trying to treat it that way. also i have the experience of being separated from my H many times during our marriage due to the military and i'm kind of used to doing things myself. don't get me wrong, thoughts still come in my head and i do get wrapped up in them sometimes but for me i just have to tell myself that it's God's will for me and my H to rebuild our M and i just have to be patient and continue to work on myself. I would rather live w/the hurt of doing everything i could to rebuild my M and it still not working out then to not do everything i could and looking back and realizing that i didn't and feeling regret. does that make sense?

i think about giving myself time frames but now i'm more thinking that the longer i can hold out than the greater liklihood that the OW won't be able to hold out. but again, i still get discouraged and i just want to do a lot of sleeping lately and just want my H to give me a chance to show him what i've learned and now i know what it means about HN/HN and LB's, and how things can be better than ever. i just have to keep clinging to the hope that i will be given that chance. maybe i'm naive but if i can believe that God saved my soul and that i'm going to heaven then what's wrong w/believing that God can work a miracle and allow my H to come back?

there's a lot of ways to look at what's going on and the best thing you can do is to continue to pray. pray for you, your kids, you H, the OW, etc.
you know that you have our prayers and if nothing else gets you throught the day then just take one day at a time. God bless, RR

Slept for almost 2 hours like death. Next time I have to remember take half of the Xenax only. I still did not want to get up, but I have to take D for conseling at 2:30pm, then have to teach.

I tool a shower which made me feel better, but still shaking. I got to eat something. Wh didn't call me at all. I know that he will be pretty good at it if in Plan B. I am sure he won't be here or call at all.

WH just called and asked whether he needs to pick up D. I told him no, I will pick her to conseling. He said what kind? Her headache? I said that you know how unstable her mood is? Since conseling she is better. D told the conselor about our R. She just worried.

Then he heard my voice and asked me you don't feel well. I said yes, I didn't sleep well last night. He said that did I bother you? I said not you entering the bathroom midnight, but your not coming home. I couldn't sleep until you came home. Later S woke me up too. He sighed.

{{{{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

RR, thank you for the huge hug. As i said before, I feel so much love of GOD through you. Hugs for you too.

I have to go now to pick up D for conseling. BTW, I teach at evenings, that is why Wh has to come back to take care of the kids. I am a college prof.

right back at you kiddo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I knew you were a professor but didn't realize you taught at night. do you teach every week night? do you teach all year long? what do you teach?

remember you're in a marathon and you got to take care of yourself in order to stay the course and finish the race. Pray to God w/confidence and dedication and expect him to answer your prayers and for his will to be done but don't expect it to happen anytime soon. that way if it does you will be even more glad. remember we are talking years here. say your H comes back tomorrow under all the right conditions (NC, POJA, etc.) it's been said here that the average recovery time is 2 years. neither one of us is in recovery but we are both still in the first leg of this race.

we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow and maybe we should be glad that we don't. if i knew that my H was definitely not coming back i think i would be having a lot more difficult of a time than i am right now. i wish i knew the words to say to you or knew what to tell you to do but just know we are here to support you and things (the M and your H) are not hopeless. go back to taking your walks and following your words w/your actions, set an example for your kids and get some sleep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> if you have to take a break from the forums in order to sleep, then do it, we will understand. you know i can't do the forums at night or on the weekends and that probably is a good thing. but we all have to do what we have to do.

i'm really missing my dogs and it makes me really sad to think that they are probably not even getting a scratch behind the ears every once in awhile. i have no idea if my H is just leaving them outside for days and not coming home and they don't deserve what's going on anymore than i do. i'm planning on being in my own place by july 1st so that i can have them. i sent a box of dog biscuits to my H and asked him to give them some every once in awhile, the poor things are probably pretty lonely and neglected and i know how that feels. anyway, i gotta go myself and wrap thing up at work. take care and i'll talk to you tomorrow, luv & a prayer, RR

Lost, I think we aer on the same wave length. I have had to start taking my Xanax again too. I had stopped for about 5 weeks. I didnt' take one in SF and you saw how I was. A blubbering idiot.I take 3 a day now...Last night my WH called at 1:00 AM...Then my oldest son had nose bleed this morning. Baby wet the bed twice. I am exhausted right now. I hope you are diong better now. I tlaked to Steve today. I will updat in a bit. STay calm!

RR, I teach math, caluclus, Stat. etc. Probably too boring. Just finished teaching. I teach M. T. TH. evenings and Sat. morning for summer. I will be totally off by the end of June.

Mom, I knnow how anxious we are. I can not take too much Xenax, you see the effect. I have to take half pill in stead of one. Be strong and staty in Plan B.

lost, hope you are getting caught up on your sleep and that you and your family are doing okay. you teach match subjects huh? wow, at least you can help your kids w/their homework. i know my parents never could. i actually like algebra if i'm doing it but it's true that if you don't use it you lose it and basically have to start over learning it every time i have to use it. i actually didn't mind statistics too bad either when i had it (i had psychology stats). now the calculus is just way over my head. at least the subjects you teach don't take a lot of preparation for class, am i right? sometimes it's those small comforts that get us through.

i think i finally got caught up on my sleep. hoping today is better for you it's a new day none the less. God gave it to us so let's use it. is there anyone that you can talk to frequently for support? i know you have your sister but didn't know if you had anyone else. you know we are all pulling for you, prayers to you.

RR, good morning. I am feeling very very sad now. I just found from his cell phone he called OW yesterday. I didn't know what to do, should I congront him? I wrote the phone number down and put it in the island and hope he sees it. But he didn't or pretent didn't.

His heart is NOT here at all. He is very very distant from me, he doesn't not want this M. I just feel doomed.

Last night 0pm when I got home, he was cooking the fish I like. I asked him why he was so late, he said that the kids ate already, but he was waiting for me. I thanked him and had dinner together.

After that I loked at S's stuff. He wrote something that his teacher didn't like. I will post in the ohter thread. I told Wh about it, he didn't think it was a big deal and thought S was joking. But anyway, by the time kids went to bed, it was already 11pm. Wh was watching basket ball. I sat down to watch with him for last few minute, usually I don't do that. It was Laker against Spurs. I was saying that Lk is gong to lose when there was only 0.4 sec left, Laker was 1 point behind. But they made it, they got 2 points in the almost impossible 0.4 sec. It really ispired me. I will work till hte last minute.

Then I said that we have to have our lesson, he sat down in front of the computer. I read chpt 3 of HNHN. I don't know how much got in his hears. He said that you didn't want me to touch you at all, why now? Do you just want to have me back? I said that I want to have you back and want you to be happy. But he went to sleep by himself.

I am receiving all these confusing messages. I feel sad and sad.

lostnhurt -

Your H is still home. Don't give up. The reason he behaves like he does is that he is still addicted to OW. I think you can make it another month, and then go to Plan B. That is what will wake him up.

And just keep loving him back to the marriage. Do not give up. Seeds have been planted, and they will grow. On this board, I've seen many, many happy outcomes. And often they are very sudden. Someone will go through months of trying without hope, and then all of a sudden the miracle happens.

I would like to see you do more with your children or by yourself. You need to detach from the outcome of this and start enjoying your life.

Basketball is an exciting game. You never know what will happen till the last second. And you are right, never, ever give up.

Believer, what do I do with myself and children? Do i just abandon him and go out by ourselves? I am very confused.

He is going to picnic with us tomorrow, Sunday we all go to boy scout outing. the more he goes with us, the more I want him. How do i detach?

Go with him and do things when he will go. But also plan some things to do with kids, invite him, and if he will not go, to alone with your children.

He needs to see that he is not your whole world. Also it will give you something to think about besides him.

I am listening to the tapes about humble. I really need to be humble, obey GOD's will and have joy in my heart. I pray to GOD, please work on me.

you can never go wrong w/prayer, you're strong lost, just look at what you've gone through. but things don't work in our time frames but work in God's time frame. He will reveal things to you and if nothing else look at how close you are to him right now and how much you can help others w/what you know and in your continued growth in Christ. totally immerse yourself w/things of God and get your kids involved and all will come together.

RR, I am working so hard on myself. But why am I still so sad? I asked GOD to change me, come in my heart, give me patience and wisdom. But I still feel so bad.

I made an appointment with SH for next Monday, then called WH to see whether he can talk to him. He just called back and said in an very angry tone. I am busy, I don't want to talk to him anymore. It doesn't help. You can talk to him if you feel comfortable. I was so shocked. But I just simply say that it is next monday at noon, I hope you can talk to him. He softened down and said, well, I will see next week. Then hung up.

WH just called me and asked me to make appointmnet for S's nose bleed. I did and called him back. He just said thank you and ready to hang up. I wanted to talk more. I guess I am so addicted to him. I asked him whehter he will come home tonight, he said maybe. I said what is that mean, do I wait for you for dinner? He said that you never wait for me(????), why now. You just go ahead to eat, you don't have to wait for me. He sounded angryly lately when never I tried to offer something to him. He always said you didnt do this before, or why didn't you do this before, then he just walked away.

Oh, what did I do to make him so angry and so unhappy? What can I do to make him happy?

He is angry and unhappy. That is his problem. Who knows what he is thinking about?

I would stop calling him and go out and do things. Take kids out for dinnner, or to events, sports, something. Go out with your friends, or join a support group.

Believer, I know I know. I am working hard on this. But he kept depositing LU to me while doing other things. I just have to pretend I did see it.

I just sorted out some pictures. Now I am going to paint the doors with lots of finger prints.

LNH,

Sorry I haven't posted much since I got back. I've been really tired, and there's so much catch-up work to do here the office.

In response to your post of:

Oh, what did I do to make him so angry and so unhappy? What can I do to make him happy?

YOU didn't make him so angry and unhappy. Oh sure, maybe some of the things you did may have, but HE is the one allowing himself to remain angry and unhappy. If he let you think you did something nice or good, then he'd feel guilty for what he's doing. If he stays angry and unhappy, he can blame it all on you and keep from feeling guilty.

My WH is this way, and keeps telling me how the OW has nothing to do things, and how he is unhappy and all our problems are because the house wasn't clean enough, the kids didn't show enough respect, blah, blah. Those WERE issues, but not big enough issues to make him go have an A. He chose to do that on his own. He feels guilty because he knows it's wrong. He convinces himself that it's my fault, and that way he isn't the guilty one.

Sounds exactly like what your WH is doing. Try not to take it to heart. Instead, concentrate on the fact that he still is willing to come home and do things with the kids and you, and maybe even talk to SH again.

I think he still cares about his M. On the other hand, if he keeps this up and things don't improve, I think it's going to be very hard on you if he stays there and you have constant contact. Like I said over and over, my WH's moving out has allowed me to start to find a life of my own with the kids, and it's been much more calm and peaceful.

He was at my place all night last night because he helped assemble DD's waterbed and then it was late and he stayed. He actually came in and gave me a hug before he left this morning and then text'd me to "have a good day". I almost feel uncomfortable now because I don't want to let feelings come again for him only to have them dashed. He's still seeing, or at least communicating with OW, because there were two messages on his phone when I saw it before bed.

I'd rather just stay away from him for the most part until things either change in a big way one way or the other.

LL

Lost, just hang in there and if you remember what SH said to me in my last session (tuesday) in which i posted on when i asked him a similar question. when my H brings up that he gave me years to change or that i wasn't like this before or why am i like this now is that (pretend i'm talking to my H) "i had a different belief system that no matter what i did you would be there. i'm not trying to justify it but just that i'm sorry and that part of me is gone. did SH talk about conditional love? it's not about right or wrong, it's more how we are wired and feelings are conditional. if i expect you to feel about me a certain way than i need to give you a reason to feel that way and if we work together things can be better."

if my H were to say something like "i just don't feel that way about you anymore" i could say something along the lines that "i'm sorry for and the person i was doesn't exist anymore and i believe that there is a way for you to get those feelings back, especially if we work together." if he asks how then that is where SH steps in and you tell your H (or i tell my H) to talk to SH because we (the BS) are not really in the position to explain or educate our WS. but we need to continue to create the conditions that would allow our WS to be in love w/us.

i'm taking all this from SH but granted this is for my situation but i still think you can apply it to yours. i'm glad you have a session w/SH on monday. so between now and then any time you think of something you want to ask or anytime a situation comes up that you want to discuss right it down. make sure you also have paper and pen to take notes on what SH tells you. SH can be specific w/you because he knows your situation and has talked to your H as well. don't expect your H to take care of any of your needs because he can't right now and continue the chipping away process.

listen to what believe says too, post your plan B letter in a separate thread in order to get more replies and maybe just working on your PBL will help you feel some control and feel prepared for if and when the time comes to give it to your H. Stop asking him what he is going to do and if the opportunity arises that you invite him or he asks you something then you can go w/that lead. does that make sense? especially stop asking him wether or not he is coming home but that is JMO.

sounds like you have a good project going w/the pictures and painting, just worry about getting through today and take one day at a time. prayers to you.

RR, thank you so much. I am working very hard to do the things you said. I know that Satan is working on me. I have to gather my strength from GOD to kick him out.

Pictures are done. Doors are painted too. I will do few more next week. I just went to pick up D, and we got in a huge storm. Nut now it is sunny. I think that I am in storm now, when will the sun come out? I just have to be patient.

I want to talk to someone so much. But I don't have any one to talk to now. Everyone is busy. I want D to do her homework, but she doesn't want to. S will be home soon, then I will have a homework issue. One line in the poem S wrote me is : SHe always says: DO your homework.

do you mean your son or your spouse says that you always say "do your homework?" well anyway, help them w/their homework and always do your own homework which is 1)praying and trying to do God's will 2) taking care of you so that 3)you can take care of your kids and 3)eventually be able to take care of your M. taking care of you includes getting enough sleep, enough to eat, exercise of the body and mind, and preparing for your session w/SH, and try to find someone else to be supportive. Hopefully, God will send someone your way soon that you can talk to in person.

develope a routine that doesn't include your H but always includes God. Just say, "satan get behind me, i don't want to deal w/you anymore." this may sound funny and i do hope it made you smile a little. but it's true, just pray to God that he will take whatever thoughts, words, and actions away from you that prevent you from doing God's will. even though i question it myself sometimes, it is God's will for you and your H to be M. Well, I gotta go, you know i won't be able to post over the weekend but know i will be thinking about you and praying for you along w/everyone else on the MB forum. These weekends can be tough. God Bless, RR

RR, thank you. I will do that. Have a great weekend. I miss you. See you next week.

I am not very fond with Plan B, Michelle Davis called it "after the last -resort techniqe", Penny called it the Protection Phrase. Whatever name it is, Dr. Harley said that it to prepare you for a D. Here is what Michelle said:

You shouldn't do it unless you are prepared to end your marriage because that is just what it might do. However, it might serve as a wake-up call to your spouse. It is hard to predict what it will happen.

I think that a lot of people think that Plan B will bring the spouse back. It is very risky, SH warned me too.

Lostnhurt,
My IC said that people D when they are willing to give up the trappings of M. A wise priest told me that he respects my commitment to M, but I don't have a M. Are you willing to settle for how your H treats you? God asks us to forgive but does not expect us to continue to be hurt.

Cherished, I understand your concern. I can't make decision right now, I am still hoping, hoping one day he will wake up. But it won't last forever.

The reason is that I still see him willing to commit to his family. He is more willing to do things than before. He didn't say or mention M any more. I don't know I am putting myself in a false hope, but I don't want to give up now. But who knows, someday I may lose my patience and hope. Then it will be it.

lostnhurt - My WH came back by tonight - still full of the same old, same old. Hang in there, yours will come around.

Believer, I am hanging there. I hope you have a good time. I know how tough you are, you won't get caught by your H's fog. Just have fun.

I just took S out to rent a movie, SHanghai Nights. SO we are going to enjoy it. I will have to get up early tomorrow to teach. I am going to take half Xenax to fall asleep.

lostnhurt,

i agree w/ Zizzycool: "Plan B will make you feel good and happy again."

i feel much more in control w/ plan "B". i let WS think about what am I doing and where am i at for a change. focusing on the care of myself and the kids. if WS wants to self distruct, so be it.

hang in there!

lostnhurt -

Well, I got rid of WH in short order. He wanted to "talk about our relationship" again. I told him that there is really nothing to talk about until OW is gone.

He wanted to know if I still love him, said I was a good wife, he has messed up, and blah, blah, blah. I repeated that until he has NC with OW, there is nothing to talk about.

Then he left and said "I know we can have a better marriage than before". So apparently he is still reading on this board.

Believer, good for you. Are you in Plan B or what? I wish I can be at a stage like you, totally detached.

I feel ok now. I was watching the movie with kids, but it doesn't seem too exciting to me. SO I come here to peek.

When I am watching this movie Shanghai Nights by Jacki Chen. It really reminds me how he is, this guy is a serial cheater. I feel disgusted. He married his wife for 20 years. She was a famous actress, but retired after married and stayed behind him with a S. Jacki never told the media he was married and had numorous GF. He finally came back home last year and told the world that his wife is the best. I can't believe this.

lostnhurt -

What are we going to do with you? I have been through this so long that it doesn't bother me. You will get there too.

I have been in a not too great Plan B. But it has been good enough to make me feel good about everything, and get my self-esteem back.

Wh is with an OW that is 16 years younger than me. He is telling me that he is miserable, and wants to get the marriage back. But basically he does not want to quit having fun with OW.

Believer, the best thing you can do to me is to knock on my head, when I wake up, it is 3 years later.

lostnhurt -

I may do that. Hopefully you will sleep tonight.

Believer, I took half of a Xenax and feel very sleepy now. GOod night. Have a good weekend.

L&H...are you still stuck in BS fog? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It is really time you get out of that fog yourself and do something.

I am not an expert but i know what it is like to hope and get disappointed time and again.

Take care

Zzizy, how are you doing in Plan B? I am still struggling. My heart is torn. Plan A or Plan B? One day I am ready, next day i am not.

Just finished teaching for 4.5 hours. I am exauhsted.

lostnhurt -

Maybe you can take a nap. I will be here all day, in and out. I am taking a trip to see my family in Seattle in 10 days, so trying to get things cleaned and organized before I go.

I'm in the middle of cleaning out the refrigerator. Yikes!

Believer, I hope you have a good a time. I will keep posting.

Lostnhurt,
I didn't get to the point of willing to be in Plan B until December 9, 2003, that was nearly 2 years after a broken arm and 20 months after D-day. I didn't go to Plan B because my H agreed to go through the MB program.

What I am saying is this -- you and you alone can make the decision to go to Plan B. It is a very serious decision. I think it is a mistake to go to Plan B before you are ready. I did that in September 2002, and it was not a true Plan B because he came to the house whenever he pleased. Plan B is only effective if you are ready for it.

Cherished

LNH,

Sorry it's been so long since I posted to your thread. I've been running around all day trying to find slipcovers or something to cover my furniture in my family room. It's absolutely TRASHED but I can't afford to buy a room full of new furniture. I have to get it looking decent for DS's graduation reception next Saturday. I wasn't very successful in my quest. I found some, but they're a creamy beige and will really make the room look dull. If they work, I'll really have to accessorize with pillows.

But enough about my shopping... Let's talk about you.

I agree with Cherished's comment:

you and you alone can make the decision to go to Plan B. It is a very serious decision. I think it is a mistake to go to Plan B before you are ready.

Don't do it if you not sure you can hold to N/C with him. I did it in February because I thought it was the right thing to do, but not because I was ready. And I failed. In fact, even though I'm really not sure at this point that I even want to reconcile with him, I'm not sure I could do an absolute N/C Plan B either. I still like to know he's okay.

You're stronger than you think you are. I know you are still in a lot of pain. But look back at how long you've survived this way already. It's been almost 5 months, right? I know you don't want to think about another 5 months of this agony, but for me just being able to say, "If I've done it for this long, I can do it for a little longer" kept me going when I was feeling really awful.

How are your kids doing? Is your D doing better emotionally?

As for you, if you're still not sleeping well, have you tried taking a regular-strength Benedryl about 1/2 hour before you go to bed? I bought some for a cold I had a couple months ago, and ended up using most of them as sleep aides. They worked really well. I was able to cut my Xanax dose way down, and actually haven't taken it at all for quite a while now. I am still on A/D's though--Lexapro at this moment.

I was enjoying a grilled steak and grilled veggies and a nice glass of wine with classical music this evening, but I just heard the door open. DS and friends appear to be here to play poker, so my relax-time is now over. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Take care of yourself. I'll check back in tomorrow.

LL

well good morning lost and all other ladies,

lost, this may sound harsh to others who reply to you but i think you need to include in your sig line "i'll let you know when i'm ready to plan B"
like others have said that only you can decide when you are ready and you after all are the one that is going to have to live w/whatever comes after going to plan B (could be good or bad). but anyway, you kind of trust my judgement right? i don't think you're ready for plan B and while i think that maybe keeping plan B in the back of your mind and even having a plan B letter prepared is good, that you really shouldn't entertain the idea right now. but again, these are just my opinions and if anything i would go w/what SH advises you.

i'm not very good about posting quotes here or being able to say who said what but again, look at how far you have come since DDay, looking back are there a lot of things you regret having done since that time? if so learn from them on move on, if not then good and contiue what you're doing. you are strong because it would be easier to give up and walk away and not everybody can do what you have done. i don't really think i'm strong either but my sister pointed it out to me last night that i am strong because she doesn't think i could be doing what i'm doing and that she doesn't know of how many other people could either.

i think as long as you are going back and forth as to whether or not to plan B then you need to stay in plan A. but when all you want is plan B and SH feels that it may be time for plan B then you can do it. i really like hearing when plan B works for bringing the WS back and that gives me some hope too but we also know that these "plans" don't work the same for everyone. again, you want to be able to look back and know that you did all you could and not regret. i think it would be really bad to go to plan B before you were ready and not be able to stick to it like someone else mentioned above.

continue to follow your words w/your actions and take care of you. now, why is what i'm saying any different or more meaningful than what other people are saying? well, that's something you have to decide. God's will is for you and your H to be married and I know you want to do God's will and we need to give God the chance to work his plan in our lives. what has happened to all us BS has happened for a reason and why should we think that God has to answer our prayers for recovery within a certain time frame? we can't because we're not even guaranteed that we will have another day on this earth.

also, if we give up, in my opinion, then the OW has won and i personally can't let that happen. so again, take what i say for what you will but know that we all will continue to support you. if i remember correctly you have a session w/SH today so good luck w/that and write down stuff ahead of time to talk or ask SH and make sure to take notes and ask him to be specific. let us know how it goes. as always continued prayers to you.

GOod morning friends, thank you for your kind words and understanding. Especailly RR, Cherished, Believer and LL. I've been thinking about you and prayed for you.

I had typed a very long post on the other computer. After I finsihed, I was logged out amd the computer was frozen. Now I have to retyped everything again.

Sat. after teaching, I came home with hunger and tireedness. But there was no lunch and the kids said they didn't eat either. I asked them why. THey said that they were waiting for the picnic. So we went to meet my coleagues in the park and BBQ in 50 degrees. WH was very good at putting up the fire and grilled the hamburger and hot dogs. So my chairman's wife told me what a good H I have. I just smiled and agreed. I told WH too. THen we went t nature walk in hte park, it was good. On the way back, we rented a movie called" Red Violin" WH wanted to see. I wonder how he knew about this movie. He said that he learned it from one of his training. I hopw it is not form OW. After putting the kids to bed, we watched the movie in bed. I felt very close to him, but I don't think he felt the same. When D came to our room, he asked her to stay between us. But I told D to go back to sleep, she was not happy about that. I had a good night sleep.

Sunday morning, WH woke up early. He said that he got lots of calls at night b/c problems with their network. He managed to fixed them at home remotely. When I get the kids up, he was done with them, I was very proud of him. We arrived tha boy scout camp at about 9:30am. THe weather was cold and gloomy. But the kids went in water fishing. WH was good at hooking the worms. I would have big trouble with that. DS got 2 fish and DD got 1. I didn't get any. Wh was too busy hooking the worms. THen he helped S and D clean up their feet after. After that, the kids went for archary. Wh was patiently helping the kids on that too. Then he volunterred to cook hot dogs. During lunch, people were talking a headline news in our town couple days ago we both missed: a 4th grade teacher smashed her WH's head with an ax and stapped him 20 times. I commented that there must be something very extreme happened, but it didn't justify her action. WH was so shocked about it.

After lunch, WH went to the car to sleep. I joined the kids and other parents to play catch the flag. I was the only mom to play. Lots of running. THen went for a nature walk. In the morning, we already had a walk by looking for poeple in S's den. Then the kids shot BB gun. Once again, WH was so patiently in helping S and D. Finally, they had a closing ceremoney. Wh and I walked away to use the restroom. It was then I saw a creature I wanted to see the the least, a snake. I was screaming and grabbed Wh so hard. He said that the snake didn't scare you, but you scared the snake and were killing me.
Anyway, he was so nice to the kids and acted so good the whole day. He got some calls and didn't answer them. I don't know whether they were form OW. I tried to put it behind.

We ate in the restraunt after the camp. We were all so tired and felt good for the whole day. After the kids went to bed, we watched the SHang Hai nights together. We didn't do the lesson, instead practicing the assignment of affection by watching movie togehter. I guess that is ok. I hope we can do the lesson again tonight.

Yesterday, I called sis and talked about this Plan B again. SHe had the same opinion. If I don't feel good and comfortable it yet, then hang on with Plan A. She said that she has faith that WH will be back, but doesn't know when and how. We just have to turst GOD, work on GOD's time and will. SHe also told me that WH's willingness to spend time with the family is good. I should just enjoy it and creat a good atmosphere to make WH feel good about it.

Just called WH aboout SH's session, he kept saying that he is too busy. I said that I will call him again when SH is available. He said ok. Please keep praying for us.

all in all sounds like a very good weekend and i'm glad for you. still more reason for me to believe that you're not ready for plan B. but whenever you think about it just work on your letter and go throught the pros and cons of it.

the logging off of the forums is getting very annoying to me as well. but the it's not my computer so i can't do a lot of what was suggested on the forum homepage to keep this from happening. now what i do is if i type anything that is significant or long or whatever, i highlight the text and copy it that way if when i click on "add reply" if it says i'm not logged on then i just start a new post and paste what i copied and that way i don't have to type everything all over again.

good luck w/the session, RR

gotta go for the day, will check back tomorrow and i really pray that your H talked to SH today. i will need to be asking my H soon to talk to SH again and i'm really scared to do it. it almost seems funny to feel that way but i do. i haven't talked to my H in over a week maybe even close to 2 weeks. i still attempt contact every other day like SH wants me to. sometimes it's through the mail, via email, or leaving messages on the phone. anyway, now that my H has talked to SH once (april 12th), he knows it's through MB, i'm not sure he will do it. i went from the approach before that it was to help me and that even though it was MB that it was counseling for me and that MC takes both spouses.

anyway, i have no idea where my H is at right now, both mentally and physically. i talked to SH about talking to my H about talking to SH again. i have to make it a request from SH not from me when i talk to my H. but do i just call him up and tell him SH would like to talke to him? or do i wait until i get him on the phone about something else and then tell him about talking to SH? well anyway, i guess i'm asking for some special prayer about that. for God to put the words in my mouth that i need to say and that God will help my H to be receptive and more seeds will be planted. but this whole thing about trying to arrange a counseling session is kind of difficult. first, me and my H aren't in the same house or state, you have to make the appt for the WS, if it you don't cancel the appt by noon the day before you're charged $95, plus the big thing of SH usually always running behind and making it that much harder for the WS to call or making it easier for them to change their mind. you know what i mean?

well, now i really gotta go, hope you have a good night and talk to you later, prayers to you, RR

RR, see you tomorrow.

Believer, when will you go to Seattle? I will miss you. Have a good trip.

lostnhurt -

I'm going to Seattle on the 25th of this month. I can hardly wait. I left home when I was 17 and have only been back once, when my oldest son was 1. He is now 22.

My parents and sister have come down to visit over the years. I talk to them every weekend. Now my dad has prostate cancer that has spread to his spine and legs. So I really want to see him while he is still getting around.

I have missed posting to you. I've been so busy at work, and in the afternoon I've been trying to help my neighbor with her cheating H.

I'm glad you had a nice weekend. Hopefully things will get better.

In church this Sunday, the sermon was from Luke 6:46-49, about the man who build his house on the rock, and the man who built his on sand. Both houses were useful and seemed the same, until the storm came.

It made me think of the place we BS's are in. Our lives looked fine, until the storm of adultery came. But those who have built on the rock will survive the storm.

LNH,

I'm really sleepy for some reason tonight so am only going to post a brief note, but wanted to tell you I finally read your weekend post. It sounds like, considering the situation you and WH are in, that you actually had a fairly decent weekend. And it's great that he takes such an interest in participating in his childrens' activities. That's something my WH never really did, even during the best of times.

Stay strong. There are no guarantees in life, but your situation sounds more hopeful than it did.

Mine is the same as it was. WH sends text messages, but rarely calls. I rarely call him either--just text back.

There hasn't been much substance to the messages either lately. In reading RR's post to you, I sort of feel like I'm taking the easy way out now and just giving up, but I don't seem to have any energy left to do a warm & fuzzy Plan A anymore. I'd say it really is more like a modified Plan B with text contact.

I don't know what I'm doing anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

LL

hello ladies, i'm going to be starting a new thread today so please take a look at it if you can but only if you feel up to it. i'm not sure what i'm going to say but i'm not doing to well.

lost, hope you were able to get some sleep last night and update us on the session w/SH when you get a chance.

believer, you truly are a great support and thank you for continuing to post to so many people here.

LL, i hope my post to LNH wasn't discouraging to you. that's the last thing i want to do these days. if you do "give up" it's okay but only if you're ready. i guess a lot of where i'm coming from is because even though i am the BS that if i had been the kind of wife i should have been or even half that then i probably wouldn't be in the situation i'm in. so part of what i say is that i'm trying to make things right and because of that i can't give up and want to try and help others who aren't ready to "give up." i just wish i had known about HN/HN a long time ago but if my wishes came true then i wouldn't be here in the first place.

wishing you all strength and prayers.

Good morning, my friends. Thank you for your posting. RR, I will definitely read your thread. But it may not happen till this evening. I am going to a seminar now. Believer, have a good time, being busy is a good thing. LL, I know how you feel, when I am done with this posying you know what I mean. Sometimes our feeling is so strange, how can we not to follow our feeling?

That was what I talked to SH.

Here is where I am and why I am confused:

1. WH went to MBW seminar, and listen to the CDs.
2. He is available to take care of the kids whenever I request.
3. When he was home, he did all the house work, more than what he did before.
4. He cooked dinner for me.
5. He watched movies with me.
6. We had SF, not very frequently.
7. He does not say D any more.
8. He gave me mother's day gifts.
9. He helped my father for his computer.
10. He went to my company picnic, boy scout day camps, etc.
11. He kept saying why didn't you do this before? Meaning it is too late to do that.

These are all positive things deposit LU.

Now:
1. He is still distant from me, he slept in different room.
2. This is killing me: He disappeared in some days, he was somewhere out there over night. He didn't tell me where he was.
3. All his personal belonging were home.
4. When he came back, he did not change his clothes.
5. He claimed his A was over, how do I know?

These all withdrew LU.

Why did he behave such conflict? Why si he thinking? Even SH is confused. I don't know what I should do.

So now I don't have a plan. SH said keep doing what I am doing, one way it seemed to have some positive signs, on the other hand, his disappearance is very destructive. I need to find out what he was doing. I am leaning to find a PI. During the session, SH kept asking what I think I should do, how I feel what to do. I guessed he is as confused as I am.

We missed one lesson Sunday night, so last night we made it up by listening the CD. The second CD was about affection, which he didn't care to practice. What we listened last night was the sencond half of it. It was about SF. He wanted to practice that but without affection.

So there we went, straight to sex. I was ok the first time. But he kept waking up at night, came straight to me two more times. I just couldn't do it. I told him to hug me, and touch me, especially my shoulder. Guess what he said, why do I need to touch your shoulders, I have shulders too, I need to touch something I don't have. Oh, my gosh. How am I going to deal with this. It is back to where we were. That was how our problem occured. Now I know that I didn't have my need of family commitment, domestic support, and affection met. He is doing the other two, which made me feel good, but withour affection, I just don't see how we can have sex. I felt that I lost lots of love to him. I couldn't imagine being with him like that for the rest of my life. He kept asking me, am I too strong? I lied. But I thought so, it seemed that he lasted forever. Can someone invent something like anti-viagra? We both agree to sleep seperatly tonight so we can have better sleep. Please give me some advice, I feel very frustrated now. I think that he is disappointed too.

well lost, i'm not sure what to say about last nights events for you. but i still see it as tremendously hopeful that your H wants to be w/you. again, i don't know how you feel, i hear your frustrations w/your H being the way that he is (confusing) and how you feel. i say that i wish my H would be w/me that way but maybe it's best that i am indeed living in another state. God only knows and that's the truth, only God knows. I just have to resign myself that others have been in our positions and are now in recovery and i also hope that the OW starts LBing my H, i'm doubtful but i can hope.

prayers to you.

I am feeling these anxiety again. Maybe I am so afraid that he is going to disappear again tomorrow. I canit just live in this fear constantly. WH is so cold, like a stone. I think that he can't wait to get out of the trap. I just have to pray to get more strength.

LNH,

I do feel very bad for you. You are in a tough spot. On one hand, you aren't ready for Plan B--I believe that. On the other hand, it's very difficult for you to constantly have to deal with your WH's coldness and fears of him not coming home at night. I lived that.

All I can tell you is that I do believe eventually you will become more numb to it all if it continues. I didn't believe people when they told me I would, but it has happened. I was helped significantly when my WH moved out, even though we didn't Plan B, and even though it really took a while after that for me to feel better.

Obviously, I'm still not in great shape, or I wouldn't have had the emotional breakdown today where I was unable to stop crying for a while. But I feel SO much better than I did.

One way or another, you have to get to the place where your life doesn't revolve around him. Easier said than done when he's around, but I believe that's the key. If I sit around and think about my WH and where we are now, I get sad. If I keep busy, I don't think as much about things, and I don't get sad.

And then it's sort of like a cycle. When I was sad and depressed, I didn't eat well and didn't sleep well which made me feel that much worse. Once I've started to eat better, (and I've been sleeping better for a couple months now--ever since he moved out), my appetite has come back and I've put on about half the weight I lost, I have a little bit more energy, and I feel better.

Are you getting enough rest, or are you still having problems sleeping? (Last night doesn't count--I read your comment about "anti-viagra" and had to laugh. I know it wasn't meant to be funny--it's a serious subject. But the idea did provide a chuckle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

I will keep you in my prayers. Stay focused on God and just keep remembering he doesn't allow any of this to happen without a reason. Somehow, it's for our benefit--maybe here on earth, or maybe in Heaven, but there is a point to it all.

LL

[ May 18, 2004, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

Yikes lostnhurt, no wonder you are tired all the time. I think SF is good - even without the affection. So just do it, and think about some math problems in your head.

Believer, I only had this one after the MB weekend. I was tired b/c of his disappearance. I am sorry to hear about your father. Please spend some good time with him.

LL, thanks for sharing your experience. I do have up and downs now. But as Believer told me couple months ago, the down time is shorter and the up time is longer. I will get over it. I just have to trust GOD.

lostnhurt - Hang in there. You just have to hold on a little longer. I think there have been encouraging signs lately. But don't get your hopes up.

When I pulled in the neighborhood at 9pm, I saw WH's car. He stopped and told me he got a call from work(not OW?). He had to go to work to fix computer network problems and told me that he would be back in 30min to an hour. But it is 10 45pm. There is no trace of him. I am too tired to think of anything. I don't care if he comes home or not any more.

hello all,
today is another day.
lost, when you say that your H is just waiting to get out of this trap, what do you think he is waiting for? is it that maybe you will give up and stop the changes you have made because he knows they wouldn't last anyway? just more reason for you to continue to do what you're doing. just expect him not to come home that way if he does you'll be surprised instead of disappointed. i know easier said then done but believer and LL have said some good advice and i hope i have too. prayers to you, RR

RR, we post to each other at the same time.

WH did come home at arounf 11pm. I was so tired, I guess he was too. So we didn't do our lesson last night. He told me that he had to work Saturday. I asked him how about the kids. He said he will take the kids to Chinese school, then go to work, and will pick them up too. I thanked him for being so responsible. He IS really changed. He was not like this before, I was the only one taking kids to places and run around. But he is more willing to do all these work. But he is just distant to me.

This morning, I checked his cell, he called OW at 6pm yesterday, it was less than one minute. But she can call back to his work. I don't know. I am very disturbed.

S had another nose bleed. I will take him to the Dr. Friday. When he came down, I gave him milk and cereal bar. But he said that he wanted chicken noodle soup. I said it is too late, but WH cooked for him right away. Monday, WH cooked a dish for D at 9pm at her request. I don't know what was going on in his mind. But after eating the soup, S threw up everything. He was ok and sent to school.

Hmmm. Sounds like he is changing. I would have a nice dinner Friday night, put the kids to bed and lure WH into the bedroom. Then I would keep him up half the night and send him off to work Saturday.

Believer, good idea. But the problem is that I even don't know whehter he will be home Friday night. Becasue that will be the day I am off, he said by default, he is NOT coming home.

hey lost and others <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> just got off the phone w/SH so i'll be posting on that in my 2 threads. but i wanted to say i still have some energy left and so do you lost. do what you can to give yourself more energy whether it be by praying, coming here, talking to SH, etc. the truth is that we are still going to go through a lot of negatives before the positives start to happen (per SH) and we just need to use time as best we can.

thanks lost for pointing me to buttonzoo's post it was a good one. make several plans for friday night. by that i mean, have several contingency plans. no matter what have something for you to do if your H is not there or until when and if he comes home, have a plan that if he comes by this time we can do xyz, if he comes home but not until 3 am then just leave a note where he will see it that just says something that is pleasant/thankful/affectionate, etc. continue to reinforce the principles and follow your words w/actions.

love, hugs, prayers, RR

Just call WH to remind him to take DD for conseling tomorrow. But he forgot and told me that he can not do it. I just said that I am glad I called. I had to reschedule the appointment next week. I asked him whether he will come home tonight, he said don't wait for him. Another night of disappearance. I don't when is the end of it. I just feel so baaaaaaaaad.

okay, big 2x4 coming your way lost !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why do you keep asking your h if he is coming home?! don't do it!!!! you are just setting yourself up for disappointment and grief. any time you start to ask him that question, just think to yourself "don't do it lost" and think of the pain you are saving yourself. not to mention that your H might be seeing this as an LB and we don't want to be doing that!!!!!! you want to be doing everything you can to work on your M and yourself right? then consider that by you asking your H if he is coming home is sabotaging all your efforts and any ground you have covered so you are in fact NOT doing everything you can.

please know that i'm only trying to support you and maybe i'm way off base but i don't think so. continue to pray to God to help you have the words to say when these instances occur and for goodness sake ask SH what to say. well, okay enough of the 2x4's. continue to work on yourself and balance b/w taking care of what is necessary like SLEEP and doing what you need to do to stay busy. continued prayers to you, love and God bless, RR

RR, please bang me. I need that.

But one thing I don't understand. Don't I show him I care and love him about asking him? If I don't call, does it mean I don't care? Oh, how I want to do it right.

I feel the trembling again. I guess that I am trying to seek security from WH, which is the wrong place. Nut how do I get out of that. I know that I have to seek that from GOD. I wish I can talk to someone now.

okay, BANG BANG BANG BANG!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

" But one thing I don't understand. Don't I show him I care and love him about asking him? If I don't call, does it mean I don't care? Oh, how I want to do it right."

I understand what you're saying and i think you can definitely show him you care and love him in other ways. i think you are doing a terrific job at that except when it comes to where he's going to be at night. like i said leave a note for him for when he does come home. make the guest room where he sleeps nice like turning down the covers or spraying some of your perfume on the sheets. or cooking a nice meal for him and leaving it on the stove.

i don't think that if you don't ask him if he's coming home that you are giving him the impression that you don't care and i think others would agree. yes, us BS want to do what is right. but can you see how your H might see that by you asking him that question that he is perceiving it as a LB? to the point that he dreads talking to you because you might ask him this. of course i'm just guessing here but i feel like there is some validity to what i'm saying. i am trying to "give" you what you need to continue in this marathon race and part of that is saving you from the continued grief that asking your H that question gives you.

it's a chipping away process not a chip away and then glue it back on process. again maybe i'm wrong on this but i don't think so. maybe you could find more reasons or things for him to WANT to come home. like renting a movie you know he would like, cooking a meal he would like, asking him to help to do something around the house or w/the kids. but if he turns you down then move on or change the subject. i think in your situation that you need to continue to make the environment a place where your H wants to be. maybe some people would say that by not asking your H that you are enabling him to continue his behavior and maybe that's true. but it's also been said that if doing what we're doing isn't working then we need to change what we're doing.

that probably doesn't make a lot of sense and maybe someone can say it better than me. i still say you need to write down the same questions you ask here and ask SH, when you want to know what to do to handle a situation, write it down and type it here. maybe i'm putting too much stock into what SH says, i've thought of this myself. maybe i should stop counseling w/SH so much and trust more on God. but i feel that God has led me here and to SH, but is that because that's what i want to believe? maybe so but until I receive a bigger sign myself or i feel that SH is steering me in a direction i don't want to go, i'll just have to continue to pray that God will reveal things to me whether it is here, w/SH, in church, in the Bible, etc.

i'm going to have to be signing off soon but i hope you get what i'm trying to say and will check back again before i leave for the day. i haven't really got anything done for work. oh well..but maybe that's wrong, i'm in essence cheating my employer by not doing my work so maybe i need to stop doing that before God will let my H come back. well that's a whole different topic. prayers to you.

RR, I hear you.

But he is not coming home means NOT COMING home over night. I don't know where he is. He won't take my call, so I stop calling him. But one day he made the comment that I didn't call him. I asked these question to SH, he said that I have to feel it, it is very delicate, I have to find out what is right to do.

Now I really feel like marriage is an art, just like music, same piece of music, played by different person, it sounds very different. I guess i don't have the talent of doing it well, so I fail now. I really want to learn to do it. So many times, i don't know what to do. A piece of music, if you didn't do it well, you can do it again. But if I lose the M, it is gone for good. My sister already siad that since this ordeal, I am changed. I am not as confident, I am afraid of everything, maybe I would do it wrong. I need GOD's help to overcome all the difficulty, only he will guide me to the right direction.

RR, you are really GOD sent. I know that GOD sent you, believer and many other friends here for me. I will listen and practice.

well i guess when you put it this way:

"But he is not coming home means NOT COMING home over night. I don't know where he is. He won't take my call, so I stop calling him. But one day he made the comment that I didn't call him. I asked these question to SH, he said that I have to feel it, it is very delicate"

it makes me think more of what i told you and now i'm confused. of course SH is right, it is very delicate and i'm not sure what to tell you now. does he come home first thing in the morning? when he says that you didn't call him did he mean that you didn't call him that day or does he mean that you didn't call to find out where he was and if he was going to be coming home? those are 2 very different questions. i he just meant calling every day then i think that would be easy to do but if it's that you didn't ask whether or not he would be coming home then i think that's more difficult to answer. maybe just ask him every other day? maybe another way to treat the situation is just to expect the worse and then change the subject. i don't know, beginning to feel a little out of my league here.

i think your analogy about music and marriage is good and continue to pray and practice.

oh sweetie, when you said i was a God send, i truly hope that i am and thank you for saying that it really touched my heart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . like i said i'm beginning to think i am coming here too much and i'm not relying on God enough but i don't have any other computer access. i do try to take stuff from work to do at night that way i'm making up for all the time i spend here. but i still feel guilty and i feel that way for a reason.

well i gotta go for the day. i have church tonight, which i'm looking forward to, wish i had it everyday. hope you have a good night, God bless and prayers to all those here, RR

LNR,

My two cents..

Stop calling him. Let him call you. Sure, he'll wonder why you aren't calling anymore, but let him wonder. Let him wonder what you're up to. Right now, when you call, he knows he can do whatever he wants and get away with it because you are always there...always worried about him...always wondering what he's doing.

Also, if you call all the time, it can be perceived as nagging or treating him like he's a child--you know, always having to check up on him. I totally understand that you want to know where he is and if he's coming home. But I think you need to let go just a little.

Why can I say all this? Because THIS WAS ME A FEW MONTHS AGO!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I did all this. I knew I shouldn't call, but I did. He wouldn't answer his phone, so I left a message. I always asked when or if he was coming home. And all it did was upset me. I was upset if I called and couldn't get him. I was upset if he said he was coming home at such-and-such a time and then didn't show. (And he never showed at the proper time!)

And I think it just made him feel like he was under my nose all the time. The more I tried to hang on to him, the more he pulled away to gain his independence.

My pastor was actually the one who said "quit chasing him...let him pursue you." You can still be very caring when he's home and still do a good Plan A, I believe, without calling or asking if he's coming home. Just be attentive when he is there.

At this point you and RR are far stronger people than I am, being able to deal with a WS at home and still do a great Plan A. I actually enjoy the fact that my WH is not at home (as long as he's acting like the horse's rear-end that he is). It's peaceful. To have him coming home late each night and know (or even suspect) that he was still in an A would be driving me nuts!

I think going through what I did for those months with him, God taught me to be strong--that I could survive even when I felt like I wouldn't, so that now even though I' essentially alone, I don't feel so bad. I do still pray for my WH daily if I remember. I really do want him to come back to God. But until or unless his heart changes and he really desires to work on our marriage, I really don't want him back at home.

LL

[ May 19, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

RR, I hope you have a good time in church. I know that every one is confused by WH's act and words. I guess that best way is to put it behind like all the experts said. RR, may GOD be with you tonight.

LL, I know what you mean. I actually don't call him and not to leave any messages either. But I think that he thought I am too cold, not cool. He thought I was too cold. I just don't know what is the best way tobe around. In my heart, I am screaming, please have my H back, please have my M back. On the other hand, I know that I have to be patient, GOD is working on his schedule.

So now I am trying to be busy, vucuming, going outside to work on the yard, cooking etc. i was supposed to have someone sign up for mortgage tonight. But he found someone else to get 1/8 point lower and went away. I used to care about that a lot, but I don't care any more. My M is more important.

LL, how did you deal with your DD?

Now the kids are fighting. D is very nasty. She hit S, and calling her names. She said that I did not love her. Oh, how do I deal with it?

LNH,

On the DD issue, I'm not sure I have any good advice. Mine has sort of settled down a bit as our family has settled into a routine finally. She's NOT perfect. She's still very hard to control and comes and goes as she pleases, and no matter what I do it doesn't seem to stop that.

She's VERY disrespectful and uses bad language if she feels like it, uses my makeup and wears my clothes without permission, leaves the house whenever she pleases, etc.

But through all that, at least she's no longer just yelling and crying and being hateful toward everyone. This is an improvement. And she is getting along fairly well with her brother, though he is older than her, not younger like yours, and I think that makes a BIG difference.

All I can say is when your DD is in one of her moods, try and distract her and get her involved in something else, even if it's just helping you with something. See if she wants to go to a store with you. Having one of the kids ride in the car alone with me seems to be the thing that is most apt to get them to open up and talk freely with me.

And when all else would fail and my DD was so angry that all she could do was fling hurtful words at me and cry and walk in her room and slam the door, I left her alone. Usually she either cooled off after a few hours or she fell asleep and slept off the grumpiness, and then would emerge in a slightly better mood. When I tried to scold her for her disrespect or punish her, she became that much more unbearable.

I also think that as they get older they settle down a little emotionally (at least I'm hoping they do). Your DD being a bit younger than mine is probably just getting into the really difficult early adolscent years.

Did I tell you we found out that my DD isn't taking her Zoloft after all. She's been hiding it again for weeks. We saw her psychiatrist today. He said lets just see if her mood continues to stay improved and if it does, we'll hold off on the meds for now.

School is almost out. That for me is worrisome, because my DD will be free all day every day with no one keeping an eye on her. That is probably when our problems will really start again.

LL

LL, I think that you do better than I do. I feel that I am absolutely controlled by her. No matter what i said and what I do, she can have things to bounce back.

So I just took them out for grocery shopping, just bread and milk. Then she wanted to go to Dollar store. I said that it is getting late, we have to go home. She was not happy again and said you ALWAYS not let me go there. She just use always, never. I am really afraid what will happen when she really goes to her teens.

I feel so empty now. WH is gone, D is acting, S not behave. It seems that everything goes in the wrong direction. I miss our time last year this time. After dinner, we either walked or rode our bikes after dinner. But now?

Since WH said he can not make it tomorrow for D's conseling. I rescheduled it. The conselor just called and told me she only had appointment in late M, or T., which will require Wh to her to. Should I call him about it or wait till tomorrow?

I don't want to call him and get a message.

lostnhurt - Don't call WH. What you need to do is get something from Victoria's secret. Then lure your WH into the bedroom.

Sorry your D is being such a pill, but the teens kinda start at about 12. You will find that nothing you do is right. Her job right now is to pull away from you, and it seems like she is doing great.

Believer, I will get the Victoria Secret for Father's day, how is that?

DD is crazy, and she is driving me crazy. Yesterday, the mom of the boy she babysit wanted to know whether she can do it Friday. So I left a written note to her to call back. Whne I came home, I asked her whther she got the note and called back. Shesaid you just don't trsut me, do you? How do I get a D like that? How do i deal with her?

lnh,

Your D sounds like she needs to spend more time with her dad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What???? Well when one acts like a WS (that 'you don't trust me babble'), then they need to give that line of babble to another babbler and not you. See you take it personally and get hurt. She needs to give it to her dad, who by now s/b used to dishing that stuff out. Trust me, he won't like it but you shouldn't have to deal with it either.

As for her mouth, maybe she isn't good company for anyone's kid. Cancelling it isn't the end of the world but maybe a good lesson or 2 learned.

As for the no-show WS, I would not reward him with anything nice. He doesn't come home and gives you grief, then you can choose how to handle it. Be cordial but not too sweet. No nice stuff, otherwise he will think the more he stays away the nicer you will be. It is hard to balance in the fog. Respect yourself.

I would not say much when he comes home. When he wants you to meet a need or 2, think before you do so. He isn't allowed to shirk his family obligations so don't cut him slack on that. As for his meeting your needs, thank him when he does but I wouldn't make a lot of effort to meet his when he is being disrespectful to you.

My motto: Plan A the spouse but plan B the Ws. Times will overlap but need to be able to differentiate between the 2 characters inhabiting the same body. When in doubt err on the side of caution (be nice but not close).

JMHO,
L.

Rochid, thanks for your valuable advice. I really appreciate your help in the time your family needs to be taken care.

As for D, WH had that already. One day, he told D: you have to change, you see and take everything negative, you said no one loves you. What did you learn in church? Jesus said to love everyone. I am not going to church, I even know that. I am better than you, I love everyone(OW, not his wife) and think everyone loves me. I don't need to go to church to get that. What do you go to church for?

Now you see what kind of example he set her for. D is so disrepectful, judgemental and bad temper. She acted like she is the mom of her brother, critizing him. Yesterday, she even hit him. She said the conseling didn't help her. Probably one day she gets in jail, that will help her. I just have to pray for more wisdaom of that.

As for WH, I don't know what to do. He was ok when he is around. But this disappearance is the most disrepectful, thoughtless act. I do think that Plan B is in the near future.

Last night, I fell asleep at about one and didn't wake up till 6am. Praise the Lord. I thanked HIM for that. it is another day, it is going to be good. I hope everyone have a good day today.

lostnhurt -

I would not take daughter's behavior personally. Her job during teen years is to pull away from her family. That is what she is supposed to do. Usually they get most of their support from friends, and then later go on to be more independent.

Make sure she has good friends. I always had my boys friends over to our house. That way I knew what they were like.

Your daughter has given you something she likes to do - the dollar store. So now you can plan a trip just with her there. She will see that you are listening to her complaints.

not much time to post but wanted to clarify to LL that my H and i are not in the same house so maybe that's why i seem so strong. because i'm not actively in his behavior or thoughtlessness.

lost, glad you got some sleep, i was going to be writing a letter to my H today and putting it in the mail and then he called just a few minutes ago. he just keeps catching me off guard. i think i handled the situation okay but i did lie and say that i hadn't got the letter because i'm house sitting (which i am) but he did agree to talk to SH again (praise God) but he said he couldn't do it until monday. i told him htat i would go and get the mail and read the letter. after work. so now i'm trying to get another appt for myself w/SH and one for H asap. i shouldn't have lied but darn it i was going to send a letter and then he just had to call me. i knew it was him calling so maybe i shouldn't have answered the phone ughhhhhhh! oh well.

i'll update you guys later, pray for me as i pray for you.

I went to have my hair colored. Not the color color, just my grey hairs are showing. I feel much better after that. When I came home, I took a hot shower. It feels good with the hor water like someone was bracing me warmly.You know how we women need affection. That is one way I cope. I could have use my hot tub, but the hot water tank maybe too small, when it is half full, there is no more hot water.

I brought along a book Parenting with Love and Logic with me to read. I had this book for a long time, but never bother to read it until now. So now I am reading several books at a time: Divorce Remedy, Prayers, Acoomuniion with Our Creater, the above one, Bible, HNHN, GOD Calling, meanwhile, I am listening Gospel tapes on Humble while I am on line, and listening a book called Awakening. Don't you feel overwhelmed? I do, but I enjoy it.

However, I do feel that I am doing something like a Chinese saying: You only dig the well when you are thirsty. I am digging it so hard, even I don't have the well yet, I already taste some water.

It was the first time I felt the joy of inner self. I really get rid of my own thought and let GOD come in my heart, so I could sleep. Today, I prayed like the book said for truth and meditate. I really feel a flow of love, clear water in my heart. I feel so good. I kept talking to my sis that I want to reach the state of joy, I want to have the joy Bible said, but I couldn't get it. Now I finally have a taste. Aii the sudden, I have a feeling to share this with H, I don't want to educate him, just want to tell(share) how I feel.

I had too much pride on myself, I thought I could do everything. Everything I had I earned it myself. Now GOD gave me a great lesson, what kind of grace of GOD. I am not good for my M, I failed in parenting, but GOD is teaching me to be himble. Humble will get me where HE wants me to be. Put down my own pride, be humble, I will be a good wife and a good mom. What a good feeling.

I called H about D's appointment and tonights concept. He didn't answer the phone. So I left a message. I just prayed for him, with no worry. He called me back with a very soft tone. He explained why he didn't answer the phone first, then he said he would do all those. Even h has a training session tonight, he will take D to her concert. I thanked him. But the feeling is good. I feel the calmness. I just want to praise GOD. GOD is so good. Now I know that I can put everything on him, not to worry by myself.

good lost, i'm happy and proud of you. this is probably one of the calmest posts you have written. you know how i'm feeling right now and i just have to try harder from this point on. i've got to go for today but will check back tomorrow. have a good night and prayers as always to you.

got your email address and will email you in a few minutes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ive been following your threads for sometime. I have a daughter who is nearly 16 and since she was 12 she has really put me through a bad time with disobedience and rebellion. Finally now she is becoming a civilised human being and one of my best friends! Dont take your daughters behaviour too much to heart: as believer says, she is really just doing what girls that age do. Just keep on an even keel with her and let her know that you love her unconditionally (but that doesnt mean that you approve of or reward bad behaviour!). In a few years she will have settled down and you will have your daughter back. Keep your energy on working on your marriage as best you can and looking after you. Getting stressed over your daughter will not help your situation, you just need to let her hormones take their course! A big hug for you too!

Thank you Debbra. Your advice and others are really valuable to me. I feel that GOD is sending me all of you to me. How blessed I am. I will concentrate on my M. I need to learn a lot.

LNH,

I am SO glad to see you post a positive post!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!

You sound like you really did find a time of peace and tranquility with God. Remember that time when you are feeling low again. Remember that God helped you to feel better, and remind yourself that he will do it again. The "up" days will come more and more, and the "down" days will be less. It just takes a long time to get there.

Keep up what you're doing. You did sound a little overwhelmed with all the books and all, but at least you're filling yourself with helpful, good things.

LL

yes, it will take a loooooooooooooooong time and it will be a rough road (pun intended) but w/God everything is possible.

Lost, i emailed you and told you about a radio station that i think will help you out a lot and would others as well. it's the Bott radio network and they have a website of the same name bottradionetwork.com it's has helped me out tremendously and i listen to it all the time, i'm addicted to it. it's also free as compared to buying tapes to listen to. of course my mom tried to get me to listen to it for years and now we have turned my sister onto it as well. i'm pretty sure you can get it where you live. you can go to the website and find out what radio station in your area carries the bott radio network.

it has programs that deal w/marriage, parenting, our walks w/God, etc. it truly is very powerful and has changed me tremendously. it has speakers on it such as Dr. James Dobson, Dr. Charles Stanley, etc. check it out and you won't be sorry.

hope you had a good night and i hope everyone has a good day because it is afterall another day. continued prayers to all.

I've been sitting here for more than one hour. There is so much going on my mind, I even don't know where to start.

This morning, I took S to Dr. for his physical, and concerns on nose bleed and his behavior. Basically, he is healthy, no bleed should be treated by vaseline. But his behavior is a concern. Dr. gave me a form for me and a form to the teacher to fill out, then we will have to go back to see him. he said S may need medicine. When I came back, I called WH about it.

He said he has problem with medication. He said how about a second opinion. I said that is a great idea. I am still in the old habit of trying to do things on my own. I told him that I am glad to talk to him about it. I appologized for what I've done before, there was no POJA. Like taking D for conseling, put her in Zoloft etc. He said that do you remember when S was 2 months old, he had fever. We took him to the Dr., then he was sent to the hospital. He was against it. He said that he shouldn't go through the torture of getting the bone marrow to be tested. My heart immediately sank, I was right, it was for precution. But I turned myself off, and said that you were right. Why should I argue now? But anyway, I thanked him for communicating.

What happened last night was really strange. I don't know what other words I can use. I came home 9pm and found out WH mowed the lawn. I help D to her math homework. They all went to bed at 10:30pm, that was the time we started our lesson. This time, I continued reading the book HNHN. It is on the SF. We talked about our own situation. He had a lot of resentment and angry about it. I said that I was sorry for what I did. I asked him whether he felt frustrated when he was rejected and how he coped with it. He said I used prostitute. I was shocked, SHOCKED. But I was very calm and not angry at all, I knew that GOD has worked on me. I asked him when was it and did he use protection. He said it was 1994 when we visited China, he did use protection. He said you didn't know? I said that I trusted you. He said, you never asked. I just didn't know what to say. I asked him, how about now? Do you still do it? What did you do on the nights out? He said that he would if he needs it and would use protection. He said that if I didn't use protection, I may have died. If you are afraid, we don't have to have SF. I am so bad, why don't you just D me? I said that I look at the real you, not your actions. This was said to me by the Pastor few days ago. Now I know what it means, GOD said that to me. Our M will only work if WH is saved and reborn again. I just have to trust GOD. After that I went to bed, kept thinking about what he said. I was very sad, but the sadness didn't last very long because I prayed. I told Wh that I am glad that he told me, but I was upset by what he did. He said that what do you want? You couldn't satisfy me. I am doing all my shares(he meant all the house work) and give you money. I said that I want my H back.

I don't know what to do and what to believe. Should I just out it away and let GOD work on it? Am I wasting my time on a person GOD does not please? But after praying, i was able to sleep through the night. But I still need all of your advice.

This morning, he got up early. When I dropped D to school, he was up. So I asked him whehter I could share something with him. He immediately guarded himself, but said ok. So I shared with him what I posted yesterday, my thought on humble, tasting the joy, and trying to get rid of self, putting down my pride. First he looked at me very strangely. Then he said that you did earn everything yourself, including me. I said that it was not me, it was GOD. GOD gave everything to me. But I took all of them granted and didn't know how to take care of everthing GOD gave me. Now it is a lesson to learn. After this talk, he seemed to soft a little. That is why we had a good converation of this morning.

Still I feel that my head is spinning. My heart is ponding. I really have to pray hard to get GOD's advice. Please help.

I just don't feel well now b/c all those things Wh told me. My hands are cold in 80 degree temp here. I am shaking. My feeling is numbed.

Can someone please talk to me?

RR, I checked the bott radio network, there is no braodcasting in my area. I am sort of disappointed b/c I can't listen from the car. But I can get it from the internet.

Sister just called from her friends house. This friend is so faithful to GOD. When she heard my story, she talked to me and told me to put everything to GOD, really ALL, everything. We have to totally trust GOD. Then we prayed togehter. Oh, GOD is really amazing. HE is sending love to me from everywhere, I praise and thank HIM, for everything, for WH, for OW and her family.

lostnhurt - You are doing extremely well. Your WH does seem to be changing. I can see it day after day. Hang in there and don't give up. Maybe you won't have to go to Plan B. Remember SS? She never went to Plan B and is recovering now.

Believer, did you read what he said last night? I am still feeling the pain even though I just prayed that I am putting everything to GOD. I work hard on myself to let go, let GOD.

lost, what amazing night you had, can you not see how well you did? God is putting the necessary words in your mouth and guiding you in your actions. i know that you still have the feelings but you are not acting on them and that is something to be so proud of and I AM proud of you. I'm sorry that i didn't respond to your posts earlier today but i had lots of meetings today and i am trying to stay off the computer because i'm at work.

i know what you say about being w/someone who many not be pleasing to God. i have thought about this a lot and my mom, God Bless her, has also talked to me a lot about this. she says that my H may not be the one that God wants for me. she does hope he is but she just wants me to understand that God may have a different plan for me and the way that this will turn out. and i do believe that to a certain extent especially from the aspect of marrying my H in the first place because we did not believe in the same things. but the fact of the matter is we did marry and have been M for almost 11years. my pastor and SH have assured me that it is God's will for me to be M to my H and i don't think they would tell me this if it wasn't so, especially my pastor.

however, the way i look more at it now is the fact that what a great testimony i could be to my husband NOW and what a great M we could have NOW that i know what i need to do to be the W that my H and God wants me to be. i have a hard time believing that God would allow all this to happen just so that i could change or reconnect w/God and for my M end. i do understand that is possible. but that's why i continue to pray that God will make things more plain or obvious to me what his plan is. Also, i would be a hypocrite if i say that i believe that God sent his son to die for us and save us and that he can do anything but yet doubt that he can turn my M around.

that's just how i feel but i feel like this is true and according to the Bible. we all still see so much promise in your M and w/the changes that your H is making and that you are making. i know i can't speak for you and i have no idea how it feels to be told that my H used a prostitute but look at how wonderfully you handled the situation and considering all that's happened do you think him telling you that makes the situation worse? i don't think so and i don't think others will either.

i'm sorry that you couldn't get a radio station in your area that plays the bott radio network. i've heard people call the radio and they said that they were from michigan so that's why i thought you would be able to get it. but anyway, yes, you can listen to it via the internet and please start to do that, it will bring you even more peace then you are already feeling and you are believe it or not. re-read your posts if you have to and see how far you have come and just keep it up. i am so glad that you talked to that person today and that she prayed w/you, it was a true blessing. but you already know that God continues to bless us no matter what, even if it's just allowing us to wake up in the morning.

i've got to go pretty soon for the weekend but just again wanted to say a few words and encourage you to keep doing what you're doing. continued prayers to you.

L&H

I think that it is good that you are opening up to each other.

About the prostitute thing....I hate to say this, but I would rather of had WH go to a prostitute where there is no EA, than with a coworker where there was the EA. I think the EA hurt me worse than the PA. You put this in Gods hands now. Let him mull it over, he will tell you what to do with this information. And you are talking about in the past, if you are satisfying his SF now he won't need to go out and get it with a prostitute, right? Or did I miss the boat here? Prayer to you also.

HINY

NY, you are very right about SF. We did not have it, that was how our conversation started and the P things popped up. I am putting it to GOD now.

RR, thank you for your encouragement. I know that I am taking very hard lesson now. One day when I look back, I will know how blessed I am to grwo up in this pain. I know that GOD would not give us anything we can not bear.

Prayers for you. Have a great weekend. NY, have a great vacation.

I need to find something fun to do tonight with kids. But D has a lot of Chinese hwk to do which due tomorrow, she didn't do it during the week. Any suggestion?

Plan B gets better and better the longer you are in it. So hang on. All my days are happy now. Yours will be too.

Yes, believer is right. I was there for 7 weeks and everyday was starting to be happy. Just don't break it no matter what until you are sure he is ready to R. Which is what so many of us have fallen for.

HINY

I was going to tell you to ask Believer, there she is. NY is also a veteran. I am not ready at all. Another thread to read is this We are in Plan B and doing Well.

Of course, WH is out somewhere again. I have to be the one to be the bad parent. I have to have them do the home waork, Wh never, he made their life too easy. So left me the home work for whole week. I am so frustrated with DD screaming and yelling and crying. Should I give up or not?

L&H

I got the same thing here. It is the age I think, all my DD does is whine, cry and scream about how life isnt' fair. Hmmm. Is life ever fair? Don't give up, just keep plugging away at it.

HINY

I know I have to hang in there. But when you deal with her, it is a pain in the ****.

lostnhurt -

Poor girl, you are just at the beginning of this with daughter. Her job is to pull away from you right now. And seems like she is doing a good job.

When my son was 12, I was in a Bible study group with 12 other women. When they heard that son was 12, they told me to lookout, our relationship was about to hit bottom. In my foolishness I thought to myself, this would never happen to me and my firstborn. Wrong. He put me through HELL.

I could give you lots of stories, like me chasing him down the street in my bathrobe, with a spatula. But I won't bore you. Just let me tell you that it was awful between 12 and 18. Now he is 22 and we are best friends again.

And girls go through this earlier and earlier. So hang on, it's gonna be a rough ride. But later she will be her own sweet self again.

Believer, she was crying in bed. I asked why. She told me that she has anxiety attach. Her day said it is an excuse. I think it is both.

But anyway, she said she want me to talk to her. SO I did. I asked her what she want,a nd how I can help her. She said you are not helping. I told her if she said that our conversation has to stop. Then she cried again. I said that I love you so muc, I am trying to help you. But if my ways are no helping, can you tell me what I can do. She said I don't know. This afternoon, when I asked her to do her homework, she said I don't want to. I said it is ok, then don't do it. She said I have to do it, thenI said ok, then do it. SHe said no. So you see what is going on here? How did you deal with it?

How I wish a H can coperate to raise a child. Where is he?

Good morning everyone.

WH just called and said that he will come home to take care of the kids. I asked him where he was, he said at work. I said that were you at work the whole night. He said no. Where was he? That is my biggest question. Do i see any hope here?

Yes, there is lots of hope. He is slowly changing. Keep Plan B on the back burner for the end of June.

Your daughter sounds like she doesn't know what she wants. You did well by coming along side of her and letting her know you are there for her.

Have you taken her to the dollar store yet? Just think, you can spend time with her, and get 20 things for $20.

L&H

I also have noticed big changes in my DD since this happened. She is begging for attention in so many ways. Crying all the time, she had anxiety attacks also, but they have gone away now. I spent big money trying to figure out what was wrong with her. They thought it was milk allergy and everything else. Just take your time and spend lots of time with her. Sounds like she needs lots of attention right now. Try not to focus on WH so much and focus on her. Sometimes if I can tear myself away from the computer and the Yankees....LOL......I will do something with her, just her, like go to the mall or eat lunch with her and then she is different for a couple of days. It is the age too, all those hormones, peer pressure. Don't you remember being young? I had a terrible childhood, I was raised by an alcoholic mother, with an alcoholic boyfriend. The f word was common use in our house, as was seeing the ashtray fly of the table every evening in rage. So listen just do the best you can do. I turned out okay through all of that. My sister ended up doing drugs and going to goodhope and all of that. She still smokes weed at 38 and is very immature, but she is okay too. You will do a fine job even if you have to do it alone. Have a good weekend.

HINY

I grew up very differently in China. The material world was extremely poor, but we were all happy. We had no toys, no fuel, not running water. We need to pick sticks and leaves to cook, we need tocarry water from well. Never heard of TV until I was in college. Everything was luxury, even a piece of candy. But I was HAPPY. I couldn't imagine what my D is going on with. Maybe she has too much.

Your D has too little. Her father is treating her mother with complete disregard, not even being thoughtful enough to let her know where he is.

If you boot your H out (Plan B) or he turns around and starts to treat you like a human being, I think your D may feel like there is something in life to look forward to other than complete disrespect.

Lostnhurt, I admire your willingness to put up with his poor treatment of you without having angry outbursts. I think momof3boys saw that she couldn't handle it and went to Plan B. I kept trying to handle it and failed. You are doing just beatifully. Give him some time to consider the consequences of his thoughtless behavior (whether he is continuing in the affair or not).

Cherished

lostnhurt - You are living the story of moving from the old world to the new. I know you have read Amy Tan's wonderful books, The Kitchen God's Wife, and The Joy Luck Club.

Your story is the same as Amy's mother. Remember when she talked of all her good intentions? I loved those stories. But I imagine it is hard to live them.

Cherished, you see I don't have the courage to kick him out. B/c I am afraid that he will be gone with the wind. But I just have to calm myself to not to take his action personaly.

Believer, I have many stories for this transaction from old to new. The kids always want to listen to them. Maybe I can write a book about it. It was not hard to live at all. I think it was much easier then. We even didn't know what was happening outside. We thought we were the happiest bunch in the whole world, and we would grow up to rescue the rest who suffered. Well that was the education of Chiarman Mao.

I think you should write about it. Try writing a magazine article first. There is a lot of interest in China, because for years we in the U.S. never saw pictures, or had too much info. Heck, no one could even go there.

Hang in there. My WH is coming over today for more financial discussions. This should be good.

Believer, I may write something.

Our class started late today due to power outage. We were all informed few days ago. But lots of students were late. I asked them why, few said that b/c of the schedule changed. I didn't understand they logic, they wouldn't be late if class started at 8am, but they would be late if it started at 9. People just find excuses or blames for their onw action.

Wh took the kids to school, went back to work. He called me 7am from his office. He call my cell b/c it had caller ID. Then he came home to take kids to school, after that he them to his work. I went to his work to pick up the kids. He left me some pizza for lunch there. Now I will have to take the kids to a BD party. I am just so tired. He told me so SINCERLY(??), I am sorry that I can't take them to the party, you can take them out for dinner, i may not be able to join you. I am very confused. When did he want to be with me? He could if he wanted. Where was he last night and the other nights? The more I dwell on this, more more headahce I have.

Try to forget about him and have a nice night with the kids. Rent a good movie or something.

Your WH is going back into the fog again. Keep Plan B on the back burner.

Believer, he was never out of fog at all.

Well, just came home from friend's house. I dropped the kids to the BD party, then went shopping for grovery. Shopping is not my hobby at all, if I don't have to do it, I won't.

WH and I called each other at the same time. He told me that their computer problem was very big, looked like he had to work over night. I told him to take it easy. He said that lots of people were working, he had to supervise them. He is taking care of a big computer network for a very large and reputable company.

Then after the BD party, the kids wanted to go to firends house to continue playing. So we went. I was so tired from 4 hours of teaching today and told the kids to cut the play time short. They were not happy. How do I make them happy? Is that my responsibility?

But anyway, WH just called. He sounded so tired and told me that the problem was getting bigger, he didn't know when he can come home. That is one of the nights when he worked, he would call. Otherwise, there was no trace to be found. I told him that kids school bags were in his car. he said that you can come over to pick them up. He just tried to prove to me that he was at work. I said thanks, it is too late. You can bring them home tomorrow. I feel like I am a single parent already.

I jsut received an e-mail, an colleague died yesterday. She was sick few years ago and retired. I haven't seen her for a while, but I used to share an office with her. It made me feel sad. I ordered flowers for her, may go to visit tomorrow.

LNH,

I just caught up on your posts. A lot has happened since I last checked in on your thread. I'm SO sorry to hear about the P thing that your husband admitted to. That had to have been painful. But it was a number of years ago and I agree with NY or whoever it was who said they'd rather their WH had found a P with no emotional attachment than their OW.

And I'll bet it would be very interesting to read or hear about your life growing up in China and your transition to America. I go to church with a woman from Korea. She came to the US shortly after she got married in her late teens and has told me a few interesting stories about growing up in Korea.

You are becoming stronger. I know you still hurt, but you're starting to sleep through the night, and you are just sounding better in your posts. Keep praying for God's guidance for both your relationship with your WH and with your children. You're doing well!

LL

I read something like this in Chinese:

A conversation between a man and Buddah about affair:

M: Dear buddah, I am a married man, but I am deeply in love with OW, I don't know wht to do.

B: Can you be sure that this OW you love now is the last ONLY woman in your life?

M: Yes.

B: Then divorce, and marry her.

M: But my wife is kind, gentle and nice. Arn't I a bit cruel and imoral to do that?

B: A loveless marriage is cruel and imoral. You already love someone else, but her. It is right to D.

M: But my wife loves me, really loves me.

B: She is happy.

M: I will D her and marry OW, she should be painful. How can she be of happy?

B: In your M, she has love for you, but you already lose the love for her because you love OW. Having is happy, losing is painful. It is you who is painful.

M: But I will D her and M OW. So she is losing me, she should be the one who is paiful.

B: You are wrong. You were just an subject of her true love in the M. When this subject does not exist anymore, her true love will extend to another subject, because she never lose her true love in her M. So she is happy and you are painful.

M: But she said that she only loved me in her life, never anyone else.

B: Did you say that too?

M: Me, me, me,...

B: Look into the thress candels in front of me, which is the brightest?

M: I can't tell, it seems that they are all bright.

B: These thress candles are like thress women, one of them is the OW you love now. There are so many women in the world, you even cannot tell which candel is the brightest, how can you be sure OW is the last ONLY women in your life?

M: I, I, I, ...

B: Now take a candle close to you, use your heart to see which one is the brightest.

M: Of course, it is the one in front of me.

B: Now put it back, and see which one is the brightest.

M: I really can't tell.

B: The candle you took out is the OW you thought the last only women in your life. The so-called love is from your imagination. When you feel you love her, you use your heart to look at her, you think she is the brightest. When you put her back, you can not find any brightness. Your so-called loast only love is just a fantasy.

M: Oh, I understand now, you didn't ask me to D my wife, you were educating me.

B: I did not say that, just go.

M: Now I know whom I truely love, she is my wife.

Well, there is no religious meaning here. I just feel that no matter, where, people all think A is a fantasy.

LnH,

I love your story. Can you put this in it's own thread? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks for sharing. It really drives the point home. Also it is not as invasive since it is about a third party.

Mahalo,
L.

WH came home 3:30am. He said he was at work and I took his word. he didn't have to explain anyway.

Now he got up already and is calling his parents from home. He prooved to his parents by having the kids talk to them, so he is a good boy. He is preparing to disappear again later when we leave for church. He even couldn't tell me whehter he is coming home for dinner!

Relax and do something with your kids. Dollar store? Your WH is still in the fog. It may take Plan B in June to wake him up.

In the meantime, rest up and gather your strength. You will need it for Plan B.

We just went to church. I taught 3-4 year olds there. It was a fun job even though it is tiring. But I couldn't get my mind off WH. How can I do that? People kept commenting me losing weights.

After church, we saw some garage sale signs and went. D bought two books she liked, chicken soup serious. Now we are in the library. It is one of their favorite place to go.

This morning, I asked Wh whether he can watch the kids b/c I want to visit the colleague who died. He said that I can leave the kids home alone and go. I start feeling that he is more unwilling to take my request. I am going to back off. But I really don't want to go to Plan B.

Now we are home, of course, WH is gone. I feel so blank. I know that my life can not be rely on him, but I don't know what I can do. I feel sick, tired, and saaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

lostnhurt - You are too smart, too pretty, too wonderful to go through all of this. You have done a solid Plan A, like the MB poster wife.

I want you to seriously consider Plan B. I think that is what it is going to take for WH to wake up. I hope you can wait til June, but maybe not.

You need to take care of you and your kids. Forget about WH. He will be back.

Believer,

I know all you said. I was lying on bed and thinking, what my life would be if WH is gone forever. But I couldn't think of anything. It is very boring. I can't think of anything fun. I took the kids to garage sale, library, dollor store, etc. Still feel so empty. But now I am going to take a walk, with S.

I just call you, your line is busy. I know you must be on line. I just want to talk to somebody. I will be ok after the walk.

Believer, I am back from walking. I tried to call you, your line is busy. It is ok. Kids are hungry, I have to make them dinner now. I can try again, stay online, do get off for me. We can talk here.

LNH,

I feel your pain when I read your posts. I wish there were some way to make you feel better.

I know it isn't what you want to hear, but if your WH isn't ready to commit to your M yet, I believe your feeling better will come when you distance yourself from him. I can't go so far as saying Plan B, because I really haven't even done that yet.

But distance and time made the difference for me. It did me good to be away from WH so I wasn't wondering about him each night. And then I'd say mid-April was my real turning point where I started to feel good on my own and realized I didn't need him to make me happy. I really haven't started doing anything too exciting yet. I haven't even made it to Al-Anon in the past couple months. I stay busy around the house and working in my garden and at work.

I actually have a lot of things I'd like to do. I am thinking about taking a beginners motorcycle riding class at our local community college. I'd like to learn how, even though I may never get a bike of my own. I have some redecorating I'd like to do with my house now that I have the new furniture in the family room. If I can find a short painting class, I might look into that this fall.

I have a lot of ideas--just a lack of time and money.

Truthfully, I think time will make a difference for you, even if this thing with your H drags out. If I found out about WH's A in October, and my turning point was April, then by my calculations you should start feeling better by about July. That's just over a month. It may seem forever, but I'll bet when you get to that point you'll be able to look back and see you ARE better.

Actually, even though you're very sad, I think you're sounding better now and coping better than you were just a month ago.

Hang in there. God will never give you more than you can handle!

LL

praying that my H is talking to SH right now, his appt was at 8am.

lost,the only thing that i want to say now is that you know that all this is not about that it will take for your H to make you happy. i can tell this from your posts and i know that is not your goal. i know that i can go on and evenutally be happy again but the point here for US is that we want to do all that we can to save our M. that is what it is for you and me (as well as others) and therefore the hesitancy of going to plan B. SH tells me to do what i can for as long as i can because w/time many things can change and as you also know it is a chipping away process that takes a long time to happen.

your goal and mine, is still for M recovery. i can talk all i want about that you need to do this and that but as you know when it comes down to it, it's you who have to decide and be able to handle whatever comes what may. I think that at this point you need to give yourself a timeframe, deadline, goal, etc. believer keeps referring to the end of june, is this what your "deadline" is for plan b implementation? if so, then you NEED TO JUST SWITCH GEARS AND STICK TO IT. which means continuing to plan A until plan B. if you don't have a timeframe in mind then i think you need to think and pray on this RIGHT NOW. i think this will help you and give you some control of YOU. because we know we can't control the WS.

so pick a date, work on the plan B letter, and continue to plan A until then. i liked the story about the candles and it makes sense. i'm curious though about your transition from china to the U.S. and your transition from Budhism to Chritianity. pray to God the first thing in the morning and make it the last thing you do in the day before you go to bed. we are here for you and want to support you. when is your next session w/SH? prayers to you, RR

Hi, friends, I know what you are talking about getting ready for Plan B.

I am afraid that he is getting close home, but I am pushing him away by doing that. Everyone is different, I know he is the kind of people who only takes the soft approach, I have to know the right dose. When Believer mentioned end of June, it is b/c I ma done of teaching that time. I will be home for the next two months.

Yesterday, Wh called when we had dinner at 6:30pm. He said he is coming home for dinner in 30 min. I said that we are eating already. He said ok, I will just make some noodles for myslef. I told him that he could have the left over. I knew that it would take him much longer than 30 min. to arrive. So I made another dish for him and he finally arrived at 8pm. The kids got Man in Black II from the library, we watched that movie together, Wh joined us.

After kids went to bed, I read the HNHN again. I don't know how much he heard that. his attitude wreally made me sick. You are right, maybe when I am more distant to him, I will feel better.

hang in there kiddo, sounds like another "good" night last night. for what it's worth I would give your H to 7/6/04. that's 6 mos post DDay for you and you will be done w/teaching for the summer. you will need all the free time you can get in order to start taking control of your life and learning/coping with doing things on your own (mowing the lawn, driving kids places, etc.). so okay, now we have a date right (well i just suggested that date)? doesn't that make you feel better?

of course lots of things can happen between now and then but again, you just have to contiue doing what you can for as long as you can. plan A, plan A, plan A until plan B. if/when you go to plan B because you can always change your mind BEFORE you start plan B. anyway.....i've got to sign off for now and get some work done, since i am at work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Thanks for the prayer for my H this morning. SH didn't call me to take the session for myself so i'll take his lack of call to mean that my H did talk to him.

strength and prayers to you, RR

I pretty much just sit here and read other's posts today. I can imagine what will happen when summer comes and kids out of school. What do i do with them. I could not remember what I did before, my mind is so blank now.

D just called me from school asking whehter she can go to her friend's house after school. I said no. She said why? I told her that she needs to be home woth her borther before her father is home. She said daddy leaves us alone, why can't I go? I just told her the same thing repeatedly and calmly. She finally said ok.

But what kind of example WH is setting here? I am just so mad.

On the other hand, WH called earlier and asking whether he needs to take D for conseling. I said yes and told him the time. But after that I had nothing to say to him. I feel very frustrated that I have nothing to say to him, and how to have a conversation? Without conversation, how do you build a relationship?

maybe that's what you should be doing at this point, not having a conversation w/him unless there's a reason. not sure.

anwyay, i printed out the pictures from the email they didn't all come out okay but i one of them that has the 2 signs on it was good enough so i have that taped up on my wall next to my computer.

if you have a chance go to learning lots post titled "help help help" he's wanting some encouragment from those who have a strong faith. i know you probably don't think you are strong but you are. many people in our positions wouldn't have done what we have done, plus you always say you have to give it to God and rely on him and you can't go wrong w/saying that.

luv and hugs, RR

RR, I know that I have to trust GOD. But I still have these weak moments. I need to ask GOD's forgiveness. In the lesson, one of top 4 needs to be fullied is conversation. That is why I want to have converation with him, especailly when he called.

i understand totally sweetie where you are coming from about your need being conversation. but unfortunately plan A is not about our needs being met <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> unless the WS is willing to meet your needs (i.e. wants to work on the M) then he will not be able to meet your needs or take care of you. SH told me not to expect my H to care for me now because he can't. i think the same thing applies for you. it really stinks i know. or you could look at it from the love bank standpoint. yes, that when he doesn't meet your need for conversation then he is making withdrawals but he still has a pretty hefty balance in your love bank. on the other hand you have to consider what makes withdrawals from your account w/him. it's very hard to make deposits in someone's account when they won't let you. i think it's more helpful to look at it in this way, that as long as you are not making any WITHDRAWALS in their account then you are doing good. it's when his account w/you get's too low is when you need to go to plan B and that's why you just do what you can for as long as you can.

sounds like his account w/you is draining but what do you think your account w/him looks like? if your H is still w/the OW no matter how little or how much hopefully she will began to make withdrawals from her account w/him or at the very least not making any deposits. it might get to a point where all the accounts yours, his, hers are all the same (maybe they are close to that already) and that's when the steps you take are most important, if all the accounts are equal then what you say or do next will either make a deposit or withdrawal from his account.

again, i know that this is not the way that it's supposed to be. that we are supposed to be meeting each other's needs no matter what but all of us know here that's not the case. when it comes to needs being met, our concentration has to be on making deposits/meeting needs to the WS and/or not making any withdrawals/LB's to the WS. the feelings of the BS are valid, honorable, and acceptable but unfortunately those have to be put aside to a certain extent in our attempts to do all that we can do chip away at our spouse.

i hope this isn't discouraging to you and i don't see anything wrong w/going to plan B at the end of june. we will do what we can to keep you in plan A until then if that is what you want. if you want to just take one day at a time, then you have to let us know and you have to be prepared w/the letter. i have just started to think about my needs a lot lately, not sure why. i've never been one for SF, i'm mean i was always glad when it happened and was always glad afterward but never really saw that as one of my top needs. i'm starting to get a little depressed since i haven't had SF since last october and not sure when or if i will ever get to be w/my H again and the thought of being w/someone else just make me sick. yet, he's continually getting his SF, it's not fair. i'm also starting to have dreams about us, about them, about stuff in general and i haven't had those until now. what does all this mean? i don't know, only that i'm really wanting to be w/my H right now and mostly for the SF, is that wrong? i know it's not wrong to want to be w/your H but it's just kind of weird that i'm really starting to feel this way now 3 months after dday.

anyway, again, i'm spending too much time on the computer and not doing my work. prayers to you, RR

oops double post

[ May 24, 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

RR, thanks for writing such a long post to me. I feel that I need to learn more about how to write and how to talk.

When I said that I feel that I had nothing to say to WH, I meant I didn't know what to say. My topic of conversation dried out. I am a quiet person, even in parties, I just listen. WH probably felt bored, he said he had a lot to say with OW. So I need to train myself to have converation with him. I showed my concern to my sister too, she said that I have to find topics. But there was no much going on here except reading a lot in this forum. I don't think it is appropraite to tell him what is happening here, except some of my thoughts.

Good morning friends.

Last night when I came home, the whole house is a mess. Kids didn't finish their homework. I spent more than an hour to get their hwk done. I was exauhsted when they finally went to bed.

WH was very very distant to me. He never hug me, just a gentle hug. I felt so tired lately and fell asleep right away. Didn't know when he went to bed. He was like usual, took out gabage, did not want to talk to me. But he did one thing that is good for me, renewal of the internet subscription.

I got to pray more to detach from him.

IMHO, GOD asks us to FORGIVE but not to TOLERATE. Plan B is for those people who are willing to forgive but not to tolerate. It sends a clear message. The message is that you are a human being who deserves respect and consideration, and you are not the blame for your husband's inconsiderate and thoughtless behavior. The basis of love is care and under care is manners.

I think it is in Matthew that Christ tells his followers that, if someone does not welcome them, shake the dust from their feet. Leave!

hello lost, i have to make this quick because i have a lot of work to catch up on and i'm not having a good day already. i hit a pole in the parking lot at work (i got too close to it when i was turning) well it messed up one side of my truck. it's still drivable but it's ruined now. i don't have the money to fix it even w/the deductible. but i'll still call my insurance to let them know.

anyway, while i respect the opinion of Cherised and what she wrote, we do have to accept the fact that we are dealing w/human behavior. we BS are trying to get the WS to do something they are not interested in doing or are motivated to learn about. God did make us the way we are for a reason. maybe it would be easier to deal w/if our WH treated us badly and then we could detach more or altogether but when you have a H that is nice or at least decent w/his interactions w/you no matter how "cold" they are,, it still gives us hope that things will be turned around.

if you believe in the MB concepts and are in the counsel of SH then that is what you should go w/in addition to trying to do God's will. plan A is not for wimps and clearly puts all the work on the BS so that when the WS sees the changes and needs are "met" or that there are no LB's or lovebank withdrawals then the M can be worked on TOGETHER. but you and i both know that plan B is not for wimps either and we must be prepared entirely for what is to come once that plan B letter is given to the WS. we are talking about a 6 week period approximately to the end of june if that is the time you have chosen to implement plan B if things don't change in the mean time. so pick a date and prepare accordingly.

of course, don't let your H know what you are planning but just continue to plan A the best you can. if you don't know what to say or how to bring up topics, ask those questions here or ask SH. i'm very specific w/SH and ask him what to say if this topic is brought up or what should i say if my H should say this. we have known each other for 12 years so i would like to think i know some of how he is thinking. i write down what SH says in my notebook and have it w/me at work and then if i talk to my H i take it out and refer to it and say some of the things that SH has advised me to say. because AGAIN, we are dealing w/human behavior and we are supposed to be using marketing techniques so that our WS will eventually become convinced to work on the M. we are supposed to always be re-inforcing our positives, making ourselves attractive, and giving the WS a reason to come back when if fact they don't want to.

sorry if this post was kind of blunt but felt it kind of needed to be today. if you want to go to plan B sooner than you have got to tell us. you could even put it in your signature line "plan B on june 30th if things don't change." then we will help you w/your letter and help keep you in plan A until plan B. toleration is an ugly word in my book right now. what would we do if God didn't tolerate what we do on a daily basis? this is a "roughroad" but God has given us the tools and the armor to get through it. prayers to you, RR

Thank you friends for you opinions.

RR, I feel bad for you. But don't be beaten by an inccident like this. We may not know what is after, it maybe a blessing afterward for the things we see bad now. I know you have a seesion with SH today, I will pray with you.

I totally agree with you about Plan B. Cherished, I know your good intention. There is a fine line between toleration and Plan B. SH told me that there are three elements for a good plan A, feel like being a doormat, unfair, feel like forever. He said that I am doing a good one. Since I am a human being, I cannot LB WH, so I come here to whine, complain and vent. I admit that I don't have a courage to go for a Plan B now, but some day, I will.

Lostnhurt, I wrote that post too hurriedly because I gave impression that I think you should move to Plan B. You are giving your H the opportunity to turn a corner, and while it can be very disturbing to see him vascillating, that seems to be what he is doing. Your H is showing some willingness to participate while at the same time showing great inconsideration. A gentle hug, after all, is still a hug.

I think you are doing a GREAT Plan A!
Cherished

[ May 25, 2004, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Cherished, thank you so much for your understanding. When I told everybody about WH's action, they all said that he is sending a mix signal to me. Even Sh was confused. One way he is willing to do something, on the other hand he is being so thoughtless. That is my major mix up. I guess I will continue doing this Plan A for a while, then if things are not turning around, then Plan B.

yep, keep it up, God is w/you always and it is his will for you to be w/your H. However, many pastors and counselors will tell you that at some point you will come to a fork in the road and have to make a decision. what's frustrating is just knowing how long it is till we reach that fork because it's different for everyone.

i spoke w/SH this afternoon and i'll update my thread w/what we talked about. i'm just so sad and disheartened that i don't know when i will get to talk to him again. because every time i do talk to him i feel so much better and more focused. but maybe that's because i don't have a mixed signal sending husband like you do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> if SH is confused, i think that says a lot and just means you need to stick in there for a little while longer. i think you have class tonight so good luck w/the lesson and prayers to you.

RR, I am glad you talked to SH. Please don't feel sad if you can't talk to him andmore. GOD will help you in some way.

Not much happening today. Before I left home, WH called and said: I am leaving work to pick up S and D now. I thanked him and told him that I have dinner cooked for them. He is taking D to the conselor. However this morning, I asked him whehter he can go to D's concert tomorrow evening(remeber it is his desinated diappearing night), he said no, he will go to bar to watch basket ball game. I just ?????.

Yes, I have few minutes before my class.

well then make sure you know how the game went, the scores and any particular good points of the game and then you ask your H about it. for example, "can you believe the play that kevin garnet made in the third quarter last night? the pistons really had a lot of turnovers but the pacers made a lot of good plays too." i have no idea what basketball game your talking about but i think talking to him about the game would be an excellent idea.

get yourself familar w/the players on the teams, or at least the players on the team he likes and learn more of the language of the game (ie. turnovers, field goal, technical foul). maybe you are a basketball fan and don't need to be educated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> just trying to give you an idea of how to handle the situation.

i gotta go, have a good night, and Lord willing tomorrow is another day. prayers to you, RR

When I came home, WH was dressing up. Before I asked him, he dashed out and said I will go to the bar to watch the game. I said that you told me it is tomorrow, he it is tonight. Then are you going to D's concert tomorrow? He said maybe. Will you be home tonight? No? How about our lesson? Well, maybe tomorrow.

I just feel angry and sad. I don't know how to work on an M like this. Is there still an M? Should I just give up?

Today it just occured to me that our anniversary is July 8. Should I wait till after that to go to Plan B? Plan B this word is popping more often to my head now. I hope I can sleep tonight.

I was angry with WH for his thoughtless leaving. So I was impatient with DD, but she was so GOOD and calm tonight. She said to me quietly, mom I know you don't feel goo, please don't yell at me. I felt so guilty. So we just had a little talk before bed time. SHe told me what the conselor told her. SHe said that as long as parents are happy, it is ok to have a D, she understands. This is a good conselor. I didn't mean that D likes parents to have a D, but for her understanding. I sincerely appologize to her and told her that mom doesn 't want a D. I want a whole family. We prayed together, we both prayed that WH will open his heart to GOD, and then come home to his family. I cried really hard. I really praise and thank GOD for all this. My prayers are answered.

Lnh,

Your H is being disrespectful. Your children know it. It is up to you how long you will tolerate this type of treatment.

He knows he has the lesson but has made other things more important than you and your family.

Plan B maybe needed before your anniversary. I know this sounds harsh but really you and the rest of those around you know this is your anniversary but he may not care. Will that knowledge hurt you? If you wait to plan B until then, you may use up all your love bank and leave yourself vulnerable to more hurt.

Think about it and discuss it with Steve or your MC. I am glad your daughter was able to have a chat with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

Orchid, I know that he is being disrespectful. I know that I have to go to plan B. But my faith is so weak. I am so afraid.

Also, should I ask him to move out? I don't know. It is killing me.

Yesterday, he mowed the lawn. I am not going to take away his job yet sicne he liked it so much.

Orchid, I want to have my love bank level drop to negative, would that be easier and less painful to go to Plan B.

Lostnhurt,
You will know when you are ready to go to Plan B. For me, there came a time when I realized that I didn't have a M and that I was willing to give up the trappings of M rather than settle for disregard. A man is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church.
Cherished

Chrished, how long were you in Plan B? When did he return?

I don't know I am ready or not. When I say I want the love bank level drop to zero or negative, maybe that is the time I don't want the trapping M. Maybe that is the time to go to Plan B.

Should I call him to tell him how I feel about his direspectful act? Is that LB?

Lostnhurt,

I never went through Plan B. In December, I said we can go through MB or not -- your choice. I was ready to file for legal separation.

Last week, I told him that we have been tracking our hours together for 19 weeks and we have never been alone together for 15 hours, which is what the MB program requires. I said we need to do that -- we need to give this program a chance. He said, "If we only go to 14 hours, do you divorce me?" and I said, "I think so." We made it to 15 last week and are on track to make it to 15 this week. Again, I was at the point of quitting before a change was made.

I have a long e-mail exchange with Dr. Harley on the private follow-up under the topic of affection, so you can see what he says.

People are different. This is just my experience. I had to get to the point where I was ready to file before there was progress.

As for whether you are ready for Plan B or not, I think that Plan B doesn't work very well unless you go into it not with the intent to save your M but with the intent to protect yourself from additional harm. If you use it as a ploy to regain your H, you may find yourself receptive to any indication from him that he is willing to reconcile. You fall for token gestures of consideration which are distractions from the entrenched attitude that "I am a separate human being and so I have the right to make my own decisions regardless of their impact on you."

It's the entrenched attitude which needs to go. I do see that my H is working on it. I tried to be the self-sacrificing wife who was always willing to have sex, so he never had to be concerned about my enjoying sex; who spent as little money as possible, so he could enjoy golf and lunches out, including with another woman; who tried not to impose on him in any way, so we went a year without a bathtub when we had a toddler and a baby, etc., etc. I ran out of energy, and finally fell apart emotionally, as I clung to the illusion that I was doing what was best for our family. I clung to the memories of being in love with him even though he was openly showing more concern for another woman and being violent. But that is my story... It seems to me, and the reason why I follow your story, that your H and mine have something in common, which is the willingness to show complete disregard for his wife's feelings.

Cherished

[ May 26, 2004, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> As for whether you are ready for Plan B or not, I think that Plan B doesn't work very well unless you go into it not with the intent to save your M but with the intent to protect yourself from additional harm. If you use it as a ploy to regain your H, you may find yourself receptive to any indication from him that he is willing to reconcile. <hr /></blockquote>Cherished, you hit the point. I know that I can not let go yet.

Our situation is a little different. He wants a D and still wants it. He was not like this before. He always told me where he went and let me know. Of course, most of time, he was home just after work. He would call if he was out of town for business. He support the family finacially well, even now he gave me most of the money. My major complain before was that he did not support me for house work, and did not pay much attention to the childres.

However, things are opposite now. He cared about the children and talked to them, take them to places. He participated family activities. He did all the house work he could when he was around including cooking, laundry, mowing, shoveling snow and taking out of garbage, etc. But he acted so disrespectfully. That is why I feel confused, and love bank unit did not drop. I don't know what to do. I do want this M, but I don't know how to get around it.

today is another day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

lost, i just emailed you back. words can't say of how i feel about what you had to say and i'm truly touched.

just take it one day at a time and look what a great night you had w/your daughter, look at what a good example you are setting for her and also how much you can learn from her.

i think you will need to ask your h to move out when and if you go to plan B as for my understanding of what plan B is. gotta go, prayers to you, RR

[ May 26, 2004, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Oh, I forgot to mention that D was selected the student of the month by the Sheriff. I am so proud of her.

lostnhurt - Well here I am up in Seattle. My boys and I had a nice trip on the airplane. I used to be terrified of flying. I just kept telling myself that Brett (here on MB) said Southwest was a good airline, and the plane a good plane. It really made me relax.

It is beautiful up here, with tons of trees and lakes. I had forgotten how lovely in is.

Hope you are hanging in there. I would like to see you (STILL) doing more things on your own, instead of just waiting for WH.

That will give you some self esteem and also something to feel good about, and something to talk about.

Believer, I am so glad to hear from you. I am vry happy that you are safe and sound now.

Seattle is beautiful. We were just there last July. We went crabing and MT. Renaine. It hurts me a lot when I think about that. Will there be more of family fun time like that?

I still have hard time finding things to do for myself. Basically I did a little yard work, then I sit here to listen to some messages and read books. I am listening on the topic of Praising GOD. After listening so much, I know that I need to get rid of my own bitter feeling and let GOD in, have joy. I am trying so hard, but still not there yet. I had a little taste of it last week, now I have to regain it again.

I know that I should take care of myself. But I can't control it now. I am chill, heart beats up, shaking again, I want to cry. Oh, GOD please help me. I am listening to this tape Praise GOD. It said that praising GOD is to accept everything HW gave you. I knwo that. But I just can not control myself.

I have no one to talk to. Every one is at work.

I couldn't stop crying, very hard. I am ver ver saaaaaaaaaaad and depressed. I prayed so har, but why do I still feel so bad?

{{{{{{{{{{{lostnhurt}}}}}}}}}}}}

i'm so sorry that no one (besides God) is right beside you for you to talk with. i got your reply to me and i'll still reply via email but will also say some things here. maybe you start another thread about "things to do." just an idea. what do i do in my free time? let's see...... actually pretty pathetic but i don't have kids so i have to take what i can get. mostly i work out although not as much as i should be. working out doesn't take the thoughts about my h and the situation away unfortunately but just gives me something to do.

i do like to watch TV and movies. i have some favorite programs like "the golden girls" on lifetime and any of the "law and order" shows. i rent some movies and i go to the movies by myself. i also take some work home and work on things that i wasn't able to get done at work. i take a lot of baths and i talk on the phone a lot to my mom and my sister. although my last phone bill was almost $200 so i might have to "chill" out about that a little bit. i try to read things that are interesting to me like stuff about forensics. i also just read entertainment type magazines and i love to look at catalogs.

i go to church 3 times a week. twice on sunday and then on wednesday night. i work monday through friday so going to work and going to church takes up most of my time. if nothing else i just sleep. i've never had a problem w/sleeping. i probably sleep too much but sometimes that's my only outlet. i really don't have too many dreams about my H or the situation, just every now and then. they seem to come in spurts. so i'm lucky in that regard.

other than that i haven't been real motivated to do anything else. i've had an article published in december and was working on another one but when DDay happened i just kind of let it go. maybe i'll start working on that again. i also have a cross-stich project that i've been working on for years that i really need to finish. i probably haven't touched it in at least 2 or 3 years. once i get in a place of my own. it will give me more stuff to do like unpacking and decorating, cleaning, etc. the place where i live now w/my friend we have only lived in since october so nothing is really dirty plus most of the stuff belongs to my friend so i'm not really motivated in doing things w/her stuff and she probably doesn't want me to anyway.

once i get a place i'll soon be having my dogs and can't wait to spend time w/them. i plan on going camping some when i get them. i really like being in that kind of atmosphere and i love the smell of a campfire and roasting marshmellows and hotdogs. of course i would love to be doing that w/my H but i'm okay w/it just being me. i just love the smell of the outside air, looking at the stars and listening to the bugs churp (as long as they're not on me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) i tried to go camping (first time in probably 4-5yrs) in march when i was at our house but i ended not being able to stay the night because the zipper on the tent broke and i couldn't keep the dogs inside the tent and at the campground i was at said that the dogs had to be on a leash. so needless to say i miss camping.

there's a really good zoo near where i live that's free and i plan to just go by myself one saturday when i get a chance. i love animals and just watching them brings a smile to my face, especially squirrels they just crack me up and are so cute. i've even taken a loaf of bread and went and fed some geese that are near where i live and they were all too glad to gobble up what i had.

i would probably go to the mall more or to the store more if i had more money but at the same time i'm really trying to change that part in me. my H and i have not been good w/money. i've always just kind of bought what i wanted even if it was just stupid. i didn't realize how much i did this until i had a yard sale in march at our house and i went through our house and just gathered all this stuff that i had collected. it just made me sick and sad to look at all this stuff. there was just so much that i bought without any regards to how it would impact our financial situation and without any regard to my H. i made so many decisions w/out him. well needless to say i sold the stuff at rock bottom prices. i actually made almost $300, even though all that stuff cost probably $1000. but i have bough a few books to read which i feel are good investments and i also bought a few clothes. not a whole lot because i do have a lot of clothes they are just at our house in another state. i still can't wear a lot of them because of my weight but i'm on my way. the clothes i did buy was because i had lost so much weight and i wanted to look good for my H when i saw him in march. i let myself go in our M and i'm trying to remedy that as well.

anyway, so after all this i probably didn't give you a lot of ideas of things to do. i'm not sure of just how much time you have to yourself or if you're not able to because of your kids. i'm not really one to tell you about the kids stuff and how much time you should spend just by yourself. but that is just my take on everything and now i'm praying hard for you as you do for me.God bless, RR

RR, all your ideas are great.

The problem is that I don't want to do them or I have no interest. I have to work hard to bring up my interest.

Today, I had whole day by myself. I try to call sister, she was in a friend's house. Called another friend, found out that her father died yesterday. Another friend was at work. Called the pastor, probably he was out of town, I left a message with no answer. Of course, called Wh no answer either. I just feel so lonely. I felt like I am forgotten by this world. Just my feeling, i know it is not true. I know that GOD always loves me and be with me. So I was listening to the Christen messages.

I wanted to go shopping. But all the stores are the same, I had no need to buy anything. I have so much at home, why spend more money on the item I don't need. I don't want them either. I even did want to go out of the door.

I read a lot, but after so much, it is enough. I don't feel like to watch any movie at all, even there are bunch of them in the draw. I guess that problem is me. I need to make myself to want to do things.

The only thing I like to do is gardening. I planted tomoatos, rose, trim the bushes. There is only so much to do. I am done with them.

I will restrat my celexa, it may make me feel better.

it is so funny (well maybe not funny) that you said that about the medicine because that was going to be my next question <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> if you were on any medications. yes, start it tomorrow! and i'm sure it will start to help. if it doesn't (not sure what your previous experience w/it was) then talk to your dr. about trying a different one.

you've got some very valid reasons or repsonses in your post (about shopping, reading, etc.). you are very valid in what you feel and say and that says a lot. everything you are feeling or going through is so "normal" in the situations we're going through. of course knowing that doesn't necessarily make us feel better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

i just had an idea, what about starting a thread on a MB get together? i know we kind of talked about that before along w/some of the other posters like believer and lordslady like a cruise or something. coordinating something like that could really take a lot of your time. i know i would absolutely love meeting you. i kind of want to do something special for myself. i had really considered going on a trip to belize by myself but you know how that went, my finances just doesn't give room for that. anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> who's to say that going on a cruise every 3 months is a bad thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> i'm just throwing stuff out there. things we do for ourselves doesn't have to be anything for a great lenght of time. what about planning another trip to toronto? of course, minus the WH. yes, you can feel sad that you want him to go w/you but you and i know as well as others that we have to be realistic and that maybe kicking him out on the street <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> is what it will take to make him WAKE UP!!!!!!

i'm starting to get into using these smiley faces <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> i guess it just sounds to me like you are so busy already that i can't imagine wanting to be busier. w/both of your jobs and especially your kids. sounds like w/the size of your house that you probably have a lot of upkeep in that aspect. it's kind of weird but i actually like organizing things. i used to go through each room at least once a year and just organize like getting rid of stuff, putting pictures in photo albums, espcially going throught the files and separating out closed accounts, etc. i'm not exactly sure what your H does for a living or what his interests are but maybe that's something you could try to learn more about? i don't know just thinking outloud. like what i said about the basketball game and trying to come up w/things to talk about.

well it's past my time for leaving work and i have church tonight so i need to get going. have a good night and prayers to you. Love in Christ, RR

My mom just called. My sister was with her this morning and I talked to her for a little bit. So mom sensed something and called me. I felt bad thta I didn't let her know. But on the other hand, I didn't feel that bad. When I told her, she was crying. I totally understand her feeling, but I don't want to hear her cry. I had to comfort her. That is the major reason I did not tell her.

She started reasoning why Wh did it and said why can't we sit down to talk things over. I told her that I am looking for ways to resolve the problem. But whatever the outcome is, we have no control. Only GOD will know and we just have to trust GOD. She felt sorry for the children. I said that I will take care of them.

I love mom, but I don't know why I don't feel close to her. I have to pray hard to connect with her.

WH is a big fat liar. He told me he would go to D's concert tonight and do lesson. But where is he? I am too stupid to believe him.

I am getting angrier now, I think that is good to prepare me for Plan B.

Last night, I restart my celexa and Xenax. Now I still don't feel good. How I miss those few days I felt good.

hey lost, i emailed you and replied to you on my post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> i didn't realize that your mom didn't know about the situation. does she and your sister live in MI also? it is hard for a lot of people to understand why we can't just sit down and talk things over. if it were that simple we would have done it already right? you gave the best response you could by saying that it is up to God. is your mom a Christian too? Go w/your own judgement but maybe just talking to your mom about the situation when she brings it up would be better. not sure. introducing her to the MB concepts probably wouldn't hurt either. does she know that you guys went to the MB seminar?

well i have a meeting in a few minutes but wanted to re-iterate some ideas that have been suggested previously about some things you can do. you could always volunteer at a animal shelter, soup kitchen, red cross, etc. couldn't hurt to get your kids involved in that either. but i'm not sure how open your kids would be to that. but anyway, i know someone also suggested you writing a book or writing about your life. i was thinking about this more and i think it's a good idea. more of your transition to america. you could do it in english and chinese that would double the work. you could also start a recipe book for your daughter for when she is grown. my sister and i have always said our mom was the best cook in the whole world (i'm getting teary eyed just thinking of what that means to my family-i'll explain more later). but anyway i gave my mom some blank recipe books for christmas one for me and one for my sister. the book says "from mom's kitchen" and on each i attached a note from me and my sister with the recipes we requested for her to put in the book. of course she was very touched and so was my dad. because she truly is the best cook in my world.

anyway i have a meeting to go to in 5 minutes so i gotta go for now. remember the bad day i was having tuesday? well yesterday was so much better for me and a lot of that had to do w/you. so keep your chin up, restart your medication, and pray for me like i pray for you. luv ya, RR

Lostnhurt,
MC #2 told me something very true. You cannot control your husband. All you can do is look at what he is doing and decide how you are going to act. Reaction is bad. Reaction implies that what you do might influence him.

We had a blow-up. I said that the program means we spend 15 hours per week together, and we need to do that. He said, "If we spend 14 hours per week, do you divorce me?" I said, "I think so."

Last week, we spent 15.7 hours together. We are on track to spend 15 hours together this week.

My H has told me that the A ended two years ago when it was exposed. He has had four contacts with her since, two of which were with me and had to do with a harassment order she filed on me. (Long story: I was blaming her for my H's behavior.) Anyway, I have no reason to believe that he isn't telling the truth. Still, the end of the A does not mean the beginning of recovery.

I think you may get to a point where you realize that you cannot influence your H. He needs to make his own decisions. If he decides to be thougthless towards you, it doesn't really matter if he is in an A or not. The fact is that a thoughtless H is no H. If you get to the point that you are not willing to settle for a thoughtless H, then you can go to Plan B and that forces him to look at his own actions. He doesn't have the choice of being neglectful and thoughtless. He's out. Period.

I am giving you my perspective and it may be way off base in your situation, but I think that the anger may be the last emotion before resolve, resolve which you will need in order to stay in Plan B. I remember once hearing that you are ready for D when there is no more anger. I think that may be true with Plan B as well. Anger means you are trying to influence him. Anger is gone when you realize that he makes his own decisions, and so do you.

Think about it. The other thing to think about, something which I knew as I went through the worst of the A, is that things change. You're in the worst of it now, but when you get through it, whether you remain M or not, there will be better days.

I had an image in my mind which got me through. My D wasn't even 1, and I remember thinking of her as an old lady in a nursing home telling someone else that her mother had killed herself even before she turned 1. I even told this story to OW (before I knew there was an A) as a way to tell her how much her "friendship" with my H was affecting me. That image, of my D all grown and old, with her life saddened by the suicide of her mother, kept me going. I knew I had love to give, even if it was being totally rejected by my H.

Cherished

[ May 27, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Cheirshed, I am getting close to my limit. I am closer to Plan B. But I am afraid that he is going to spend this memorial weekend with us, then it will drive me back. Actually, I am more liking his thoughtless behavior now which will set a ground for me to go to Plan B. It is a paradox I know. Please keep talking to me from your perspective. I am glad that you are getting the 15 hours. I don't see any hope for doing lesson here.

RR, yes, maybe volunteer in the animal shelter. D loves animal.

Lostnhurt,
What I am saying is that getting to your limit may be exactly what you and your H need.

I will try to keep posting, but we'll be out of town this weekend.

GOD will be with you. GOD loves you. Your D and S need you. Your life can be very full and loving even if your H decides to leave his family.

Cherished

Cherished,

Thank you. Have a great weekend.

I will have to be firm and stand for myself now. Looks like Plan B is in the horizon.

RR, my mom was in MI, but she is in Toronto visiting my brother. Sis is in upstate NY, she is visiting brother too. SHe took the whole week off before her vacation expired. She offer to visit me, I should have taken it. But it takes her long time to drive here.

I feel like calling WH now. Should I call him? Oh, I just don't know how to stop thinking about him.

hey lost, just wanted to tell you that i'm going to start a new thread for myself. i don't want anyone to get the wrong idea when they read my thread on my sessions w/SH. by that i mean i want to keep that to be a discussion on my sessions. that way if i suggest to someone to go and read my thread on my sessions to give them an idea of what to expect then they won't have to read all the stuff in "between" does that make sense?

Cherished made some very good points so pray on those.

thanks for the info about the phone cards and let me know what you find out. you have to be a member of sam's club or costco in order to buy things there, so i wouldn't be able to do that.

are you being able to stay dry w/all the storms? i don't know if it's really affecting you or not. when i was in church last night the tornado warning sirens were going off. of course i was in the best place i could be for a storm, spirtually as well as physically (building is very sturdy).

look into the animal shelter or animal rescue league they need all the help they can get. i used to think that emotionally i just could not volunteer at a shelter. i just could not stand to see any animal being mistreated, or see an animal who was abused, see an animal i knew was going to their death, or going there with only being able to take one animal home. the emotional toll would be too much and is one of the reason why i didn't become a veternarian or work in a vet's office because of all the pain that animals go through and them not being able to tell us what's wrong. i just simply cannot stand to see an animal hurt, even more than i can stand people hurt, i know that's kind of crazy and i'm a nurse. but people for the most part can tell us where they hurt or point to it and there are so many people that just treat animals like garbage or property.

anyway, i'm getting on my soapbox here. but i have a very good friend who is just as much an animal lover as i am maybe even more extreme. she wouldn't buy eggs from a store if she didn't know what condition the chickens were treated. but she was a big volunteer in animal shelters before she had a child. she diligently volunteered as much as she could, donated what she could as far as food and blankets, and she even made bandanas for the animals. she explained volunteering at an animal shelter this way to me "if i can spend time w/an animal that may have not known anything good then maybe i can be the one person who shows them an act of kindness and i owe it to them to do that. even if an animal is put to sleep, at least i know that i can pet them, walk them, or play w/them until that happens and give them some good experiences in their life." so when she put it to me that way that changed my mind about volunteering in an animal shelter. now you can probably understand a little of why i miss my dogs so much <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

i thinking caring about and caring for animals says a lot about people. of course, some people can go a little far and what animals some one can like or care fo versus others varies from person to person. like i don't mind snakes and lizard and would hold them and care for them. but they are not exactly cuddly. i wouldn't want to have to feed a snake mice either so i would probably choose a lizard over a snake. i love ferrets, i used to have 4 of them at one time. but unfortunately they got old and they died but some people just think they smell too much and are too much like rats. well, i like rats too. all ferrets you get (except from a breeder) are descented. yes, they do still have kind of a musty smell but i still liked it, it made me feel warm and fuzzy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> i mean after all some people like the smell of gasoline <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

i've even thought of getting a pet praie dog or skunk because they can be really affectionate if they are raised right but that costs money and i want to give my dogs all the attention right now. i've never known a guinea pig that's affectionate. i'm not really a bird person because some of them can live too long (some up to 75 years), they are expensive, they make too much noise, and they are not cuddly in my opinion.
i do wish i could have a pet squirrel or at least one that i could hand feed around where i live.i abolutely love squirrels and frequently thank God for allowing me so much joy from just watching them. no matter how bad i am feeling, and as you know i've felt pretty bad especially as of late, when i see a squirrel I smile. the same thing w/horses.

horses are i think the most majestic creatures on this earth. every time i see one, i just think, "wow God, they're wonderful." i've been around horses my whole life in one way or another, even won some "races." i have one so to speak but she's w/my parents because neither my sister or I have a place to keep her. i just love and miss the smell of horses. kind of weird huh? to miss the smell of horse pucky but it's more of the smell of the actual horse. i make sure every time i visit my parents i have an apple or a carrot to give to our horse. i haven't ridden her in years but still hope she'll be around a few more years. the only thing that makes me sad now is that the OW apparently rides horses and is very involved w/them, so now i'm a little disgusted w/knowing that i try not to think about that too much.

they only different mindset i have now about animals is that people can be arrested for animal abuse and neglect but our WS don't get into trouble for what they do to us and the emotional pain we go through is like no other. i mean adultery is WRONG no matter what society you live in. if you are in the military you can get into some serious trouble if you are committing adultery. everyone will evenutally have to pay for the sins they committed, including me. yes, we still go to heaven because God forgave us for those sins and died for us but when we get to heaven we will still have to answer for what we have done and look into God's face and be shown what we did in our lives that made him sad. well i gotta go and get some work done. hope you're have a better day, prayers to you, RR

[ May 27, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

if you are on the computer lost then turn on the bott radio network and listen. it will be such a blessing to you and will act like medicine. peace to you , RR

RR, there are a lot of speakers, which one do you suggest?

You will have a lot of topic to talk with my D. She loves animals.

you mean i have to choose? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> that is a really tough decision. but i would probably start w/dr. dobson's webiste family.org he has lots of different issues. 2nd Chuck Swindoll's webiste insight.org deals mostly our walk w/God, his series on "job, a man of endurance" is excellent and i feel will help you out a lot. 3rd Chip Ingram's lote.org has a lot of messages on M. i think you can take a lot of what he says to use now but also save what you learn for the future. because even when you are in recovery it will still take a lot of work.

start w/those. i could always tape things and send them to you if you want. i'm able to listen to the bott radio network which has all those programs on there all day long. i listen to it when i'm driving and when i'm at work. keep the faith lost, God is carrying us through these times, RR

[ May 27, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Ladies-

I'm still having fun, fun, fun with my family in Seattle. It is very good for me. I haven't thought at all about WH and his problems. Mainly I am thinking about all of the time I wasted being miserable.

I hope everyone here can get busy doing things. It is hard at first, you have to MAKE yourself. That is what I did. But the more satisfaction you find elsewhere, the more self-esteem you get back.

Each day you need to make yourself do something fun. Find a project, activity or new interest, and do it. Let's all have an activity support group, and do something everyday.

We can use this site as an accountability check in. What do you think?

RR, it is very generous of you to offer me the tapes. Thank you. I am able to listen to it now. I am listening to the family life now. I will keep trying until I find one that fits to my situation now. It seems that this one is pretty good.

My WH is not a believer, D and I and many others are praying for him, Please pray for him too. Thank you.

yes prayer for your H will definitely be on my list. the more the prayer the better right? prayer is powerful.

i like Dr. dobson's family.org because he has the same message on at 7am, 1200, and 8pm CST. that way if i miss it at 7 then i can listen to it at another time. in fact, the messsage today was on dead marriages. i know that a lot of the messages you may not feel like they apply to you. that's a lot of why i hadn't listen to these types of programs over the years but usually you can still get something out of them.

for instance, Hank Hannegraf's programs from the Christian Research Institute mostly deal w/questions people have about certain aspects of Chritianity. i know that a lot of people say that kids are being taught about evolution in school but i never thought i was. but after listening to the program the last couple of days about the "case for creation." it suddenly dawned on me that i was taught evolution in school even though it wasn't called that. my teachers called it natural selection or survival of the fittest.

you and i know that if we follow God and do his will then all areas of our life will benefit. it is very hard to know exactly what God's will is and we have to pray daily for discernment that his will be revealed to us. yes, we have the Bible but people still interpret that differently but hey at least we have the Bible. there are many people out in the world who don't have a bible, or it's against the law for the gospel to be preached where they live.

so even though you might not see right away how the messages will help you, i know eventually you will be able to use them in helping you in your walk w/God. you can also use what you learn to help others. look at the wonderful testimony you are about finances? and think what a wonderful example you have set for your children and what you have said to me. so even something like a message about finances, prayer, raising kids, what the Bible says can help you in all areas of your life, not just your M. because even though it is very painful and extremely difficult what we are going through in our M, we both know that there is more to our lives than the M and what our real purpose on this earth is for and who we will have to answer to someday about what we did or didn't do on this earth.

even the programs on politics helps me understand what other people think and how i can talk to them. so don't discount anything you hear. but start and do what you can and continue what you are doing because you are doing better EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD WHO POSTS TO YOU SEES THE PROGRESS YOU HAVE MADE AND THE PERSON YOU ARE BECOMING. you are a blessing to us as much as we are to you. God is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, and his sacrifice of his son for us is the best thing that could have happened to us despite all the PAIN THAT HE WENT THROUGH. sometimes that's what get me through feeling sorry for myself is by remembering what God has done for us and what Jesus went through and the least i can do is try to do his will. but i'm honest w/God and tell him frequently i just don't know what your will is so please help me to know what that is and reveal to me what your plan is. God is our friend too and knows our hearts.

talk to you later, RR

RR, thank you for the prayers. I feel that I am very incapable of writing something like you wrote. It is so deep and touching. I feel that GOD has his plan on me for this whole ordeal. I was not very close to GOD before, I just went to church, seldom read the Bible. Now I know how important it is to read it everyday. i feel the thirsty and want to be fed but HIS words. I constantly talk to HIM. I was talking to GOD on the car today after dropping S to school(this used to be Wh's job), that I cried so hard. I kept praising GOD and thanked him. I know that GOD is watching me and leading my way. He will give me the best.

Wow, I just caught up with your entire thread...took me all lunch.

You asked if you should wait till your LB was negative to move to Plan B? No...before. You have to move to Plan B while you still have LU's left for S or else there will be nothing to build on when/if recovery begins. You are losing steam FAST and i would encourage you to begin to think of the timing for Plan B. I copied this from a may 12th post of yours...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I hate this feeling. I like to feel peaceful. I know that Plan B may get me there.
<hr /></blockquote>That's what Plan B is all about, protection...it protects the love you have left, and preserves your M just where it was last left. It protects you from all the hurt and OW nights your WH is spending.

Your DD and DS are barometers for what is happening in your M...listen to LL, her family settled and became calm once the chaos of the OW was out of their lives (and firmly in place with the WH...but now gone!!!)

I can't see you keeping this up much longer, and can't see your family able to handle the stress much longer either.

You are probably not pleasant to be around, taking it out on your kids, and a twist of emotions all day and especially night...lack of sleep. I can promise that Plan B will bring peace, and an earlier demise to the A.

You are holding on because WH is keeping up with your family commitment EN...but it's not enough, his independent behavior is taking out ALL the LU's he's putting in, +.

What will Plan B give you? Clarity, the ability to pray and learn with a clearer mind, calmer emotions, sleep, order with the kids, can love and calm kids easier...better. Is it worth it?

So what is the fear? That he will never come back. That is always a possibility when you move to Plan B, that's why SH says you need to try Plan A first. But some situations need to move to Plan B so the S can get a glimpse of what life would be like without you, and with the OW...yeah, she's fine one or two nights a week...but any more than that?

RR,

I HAD to respond--sorry I'm a little late jumping in here--and it's not exactly MB material...

I am a fellow animal lover! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I love them all, and I totally understand your comment about sometimes feeling worse about animals hurting than people hurting (I will lump small children with animals, though, since they also can't tell us what's wrong).

I would take in any lost animal if I lived in the country. I've taken in enough as it is. We currently have 2 dogs, 2 cats, and 2 painted turtles. We've temporarily had rabbits (before we found the good homes on the farm), and we also had two pet rats. And rats are great! They're clean and ours didn't even think about biting. They are very curious and cute.

When I was little, if my goldfish died, I buried it and held a funeral for it.

I've often said if I didn't have to work, I'd be volunteering my time at animal shelters.

My dogs were wonderful through the early days after WH and I separated. While kids are great, mine are teens and around around much. The two dogs, though, sensed something was wrong. They wanted to be around me all the time, and each night when I shut off the lights, they jumped up in bed, one on one side of me and the other on my other side, and they "sandwiched" me in the bed.

I truly believe if you want a tiny taste of God's unconditional love, spend time with a dog. They never hold a grudge when you get angry with them (btw: cats DO, but I love them, too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

And yes, I also don't mind snakes, as long as they're not poisonous, though I wouldn't want to feed them if they require live food.

I pretty much only draw the line at spiders. HATE 'em!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As a final statement, unless plans change, my DD is bring home a baby opossum to "babysit" over Memorial Weekend. Her science teacher has won Golden Apple awards for being such a great teacher, and he's really into animals. Now most people would probably cringe at the thought of a opossum being in their house. I'm sort of looking forward to it. She says it's cute.

LNH,

I agree that it would be great to do some animal volunteering. I'll bet there are shelters that will let you bring your DD. Great therapy for you and your daughter. Mine, who is 14, does volunteer work through her school, and two of the places she goes are a humane society and to a private 'no kill' shelter here in town. She doesn't get to go to the Animal Rescue League (our biggest shelter) only because they require some training classes before you can volunteer and she hasn't had them.

LL

SHM, thank you for reading my tedious thread, I hope that your lunch is still tasty after reading all those ugly things WH did. Yes, I do have a timeline, end of June. But if things are like this, it maybe before that. I need to pray hard to let go, totaly let GOD take care of it. I just don't why WH does all those family commitment things. Does he feel guilty?

LL and RR, I am not a big animal fan. But I don't hate them. Maybe through volunteering, i can fall in love with them. But snake is my biggest fear, I would be shaking when I see them.

Perhaps it is time to give WH some warning...it may take him a month to find an apt. and you wouldn't want to stretch out the disappearances for ANOTHER month (Aug?) because he couldn't find a place right now. Tell him you think it would be best if you both separated by the end of June then you can hit him with the Plan B then, in June.

You are SOooooo strong, but that strength is waning, time to start working for a LNH plan.

Lostnhurt - We were posting at the same time. See my post. I want us all to get busy doing something each day.

I am at sister's house. She is a partner in a fancy law firm in Seattle. She took off work while I am here, to show us around. Right now we are waiting for some men to put a new stove in at her house.

Talk to you later. Hang in there.

LL, FELLOW ANIMAL LOVER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> loved your post too!
so i'm sure you can imagine why i'm missing my dogs so much. one of my dogs usually slept on the bed and the other usually slept under the bed. he didn't want to sleep on the bed unless you were petting him the whole time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

i don't know why opossum's get such a bad rap. i think they are cute (kind of rat and ferret like) and it's so neat the way they have their babies and raise them. also how they play dead and they really do! i think it's truly special for your daughter to have an opportunity to animal-sit. i'm always jealous when i read about how someone found a baby squirrel and raised it. the only thing w/some wild animals is the whole rabies thing. but you don't have to worry about that w/squirrels because in almost all cases the animal who attacks them who is infected ends up killing them (hence, the squirrels can't bite you) however, additionally, the distance between the front and back teeth prevent the transfer of saliva which is what carries the rabies.

so just a little trivia for you. i have mixed feelings about no kill shelters. i think it's great that they don't "kill" the animal. but unfortunately they can only take so many animals so then the animals they can't take are forced to go somewhere else. certainly if i had to give up an animal (i gave a dog away once to a family and i have regretted it every day since because I didn't have to, i didn't feel i could pay a pet fee at the apt that me and my H was moving too so i gave her up-i know she was in a good place but still) i would want to take it to a no kill shelter only after my attempts to give the animal away had failed.

anyway.....i guess the way i look at is that the animals at a kill shelter may not have much time left to be loved by someone where as at a no kill shelter those animals will be loved and cared for until they are adopted or die of natural causes. so i would encourage you to help your daughter to get into some classes in order to volunteer anywhere. afterall, knowledge is powere and maybe the more involved she became then them more she could educate others on adopting from shelters and looking into other options before just talking them to the pound.

it's still very admirable that your family volunteers and i think that says volumes that your daughter voluntteers at all. not many kids now a day can say they are contributing to society if you know what i mean.

i ditto on the whole spiders thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
i'm perfectly comfortable w/my fear of spiders. but i'm not so afraid not to kill them at least if i'm the only one around or the other person (like my H) is too afraid to kill the spider themselves.

i know that everything exists for a reason but has anyone really thought of why ticks exist. i mean, what eats them? i can understnd spiders, grasshoppers, and sharks, all of which i don't like but ticks? or even fleas and chiggers? they don't eat any other bugs and nothing eats them. anyway JMO and maybe God can explain that to me some day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

lost, i think the jury is out w/the volunteering w/animals. so do your homework and go to it. maybe even see about volunteering at the zoo, i'm sure detroit has a zoo. well maybe they don't but just something else to consider. good luck and we expect a full report <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> well i'm not getting much done at work again, so i'll sign off for now, prayers to all, RR

nope i just thought of something else that would totally crack you guys up. i have a voice that i talk to animals in, i'm sure many others do to but on one occasion when my friend who's an animal lover and her husband were over at our house, my H, and my friend and her H were upstairs talking, and i went downstairs for some reason and i went into one of the bedrooms and was petting the ferrets and talking to them and my friend thought something was wrong by the sound of my voice (very high pitched) and we all just had a big laugh when they found out i was talking to the ferrets. i'm just so silly......

who cares if her WH could find another place or not, he has made choices and continues to make them. i'll just leave it at that.

yes, lost maybe this is a way for you to get to know animals and what a great way to develop an even closer relationship w/your daughter. i know how i feel w/a spider so i can imagine the way you feel w/a snake. i think as long as you don't enounter too many snakes then having a fear of snakes is nothing to have to worry about.

chin up my friend, still got a few more days of the month of may left and who knows what the the next few days will bring.

[ May 27, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Believer, thinking of you. I need to force myself to do something. TOday I trimed the Japanese Maple tree. Yesterday I trimmed some rose bushes. I want to save couple burning bushes for tomorrow. It is raining anyway. I am looking into volunteering in the animal shelter. I will bring the kids with me. But I still need to get busier, only if I can get more clients. Just got a call from an old client, he still remember me.

SHM, you are very right. Anyway, he had asked for D and seperation few times already. I will just tell him that I agree. Guess no more lesson.

Just finish teaching a little while ago. Now I am sitting here and have a feeling: I don't want to go home b/c Wh was there. I am afraid that if I come home, he would leave. I would rather he didn't come home at all. It hurts so much to see him leaving just like that, no respect at all. Oh, I think that I need to go to Plan B.

hello lost,
thinking of you, sounds like you are getting ready for plan B and that is okay. don't rush getting home when your H is there, let him deal w/all the everyday stuff and let him wonder about you! you can go to the movies or go to the book store, you don't necessarily have to buy anything. most book stores have areas where you can sit down and look at or read books. take a pen and paper and write down any ideas you come across.

while i was listening to focus on the family last night they had a message on their from a lady named "patty ashley" and it was a great message about marriage and that first we must submit to God before we can submit in our M and that if we follow God's will in our lives then things in our M will follow. anyway, at the end of the program the suggested a few books for people to read. of course one of them was HN/HN by dr. harley and the other was "blessing your husband." i'm not sure who the author is but if you go to their webiste family.org you can find that book and order it if you want.

they also mentioned a "focus on your child membership" that you can get and you will get newsletters every month and other things of encouragement in helping you deal w/children. just a thought.

were you able to get in touch w/the animal shelter? if they didn't answer the phone maybe that's something you can do for them! is answer the phone. you and your daughter don't have to commit to a whole day at the shelter, just start off w/a couple of hours and then just go from there. if 1-2 hours is all you do, it is still something for you to do and will help the animals.

hang in there, enjoy anytime you visit w/your H this weekend. remember plan A until plan B. then starting next week start working on your plan B letter again and post it in a separate thread in order to get the most responses. prayers to you, RR

Good morning, I sould say afternoon. I just got up b.c I don't feel well at all. Maybe it is cold or something, headache, sore throat, fatigue, even shaking, maybe a little temperature too. I got up at 6 and send D to school. When I came back, i went straight to bed. WH sent S to school. But he said that he is not coming home tonight but he will send the kids to Chinese school tomorrow. He just told me to take a good rest today, here I am, falf day in bed.

Mom just called again, she just worried and offer help. I really appreciate, but I told her that if I need her, I will let her know. We just talk about putting the whole thing to GOD and go with GOD's time.

Last night, I came home about the same time. Kids still hadn't finished their homework as usual. So I rushed for my dinner and helped with homework. It was 10:30pm by the time they went to bed. Wh was infront of the computer again. I asked him whehter we do the lesson, he said ok. But I decided not to do the HNHN now, b/c we are no there yet. So I read SAA the first two chapters, he listened very carefully. After that I said this is a long story, do you know what happened to Sue and Jon. He said, they D. I said no, do you want to know what happened? he said yes, so i told him briefly and read the last chapter about Sue's side of story and Jon's side of story. He was silent. I siad that it took them 2 years, it is a long road, but they made it. Then we said good night. I hope that I had planted some seeds.

Maybe he really took in the Sue/Jon story; maybe he didn't. But the fact that he listened at all is a good thing, I would think.

I'll type more later. BUSY, BUSY at work!

LL

lostnhurt - Have you advertised your business? You might look for some creative ways to do that. Since you are looking for things to do, why not join some kind of networking group - Property Owners Assoc, realtors group, women business owners group, etc.

I'm still having fun in Seattle. We are constantly busy. I need to go home to rest. Take care and I will talk later tonight.

Believer, I am glad you are having fun. Please send some sunshine to us. We have storm here everyday. I didn't go to the basement to check whether it is flooded, just pretend it didn't.

I didn't advertise at all. First there are too many ad., second if I do, there will be people calling around to ask but no business. I would rather prefer referrals. The sucess rate is much higher. Maybe joining the group is a good idea.

lost, you have a very good head on your shoulders and you will make the right choices about your business. i think it is awesome that your H listened to the lesson. i can't even imagine doing that w/my H. i haven't suggested coming to MB at all. i don't think he is at that point. anyway, like you said, it's seeds. we may not see the effects for a long time but we will someday. it's just a matter of time.

yes, this is a long road and a "rough" one. the best thing you can ask your mom to do is to pray and to ask others to pray for you and your H as well. but we have been given the tools by God and by MB to get through all this and we will come out better on the other side regardless whether or not our H's come back. listen to me, i know it's easy for me to say that right now but i'm also trying to convince myself of many of the same things.

if you are on eastern standard time then you are one hour ahead of me. don't worry about getting anything in the mail just take care of yourself, things are taking a toll but you can do it. try to see if you can listen to chuck swindoll's message on Job and how he was a man of heroic strength, i think that will help give you some faith and peace.

gotta go, stay dry! prayers and hugs to you, RR

i meant to say Job being a heroic man of ENDURANCE. anyway, i'm about to head out for the weekend. i'm thinking about coming into work on monday for a few hours. don't know, will just have to wait and see how things turn out.

i had an esitmate done on my tuck last night and it came to over $2000 my dedudctible is only $250. i wasn't going to get it fixed for awhile but they told me it could take up to 2 weeks for them to fix and i would have to have something in the mean time to drive. i can't afford a rental car and i don't think my insurance covers it (i will have to check). i certainly can't afford taking the time off of work. so my friend is still deployed and as far as i know won't be back until the middle to end of june and i have the use of her car. she told me to drive it to keep the tires and belts in good shape. so if i drive it now when she's gone i won't be putting a burden on her because she's gone. so i'll probably make an appt some time soon to have it fixed.

i do have the money right now. i was saving it to get a place of my own but maybe i should just wait a little longer and the Lord is telling me this through my truck (kind of weird though). i really miss my doggies and maybe i'll ask my friend how long i could keep the dogs at her place if she is still gone until august (she said she was going to try and extend her tour).

but anyway, i will be thinking of you often this weekend and keep your armor on that God provided you w/and listen to those programs when you get a chance. hugs, prayers, and love to you, RR

I feel miserable again, both physically and mentally. I went out to shop a little bit, then went to S school. His teacher was telling me that he didn't behave again. He got $500 debit in his acount.(fake) It is a serious wrong act, I don't know what to do. While I was there, he mack the tree with a stick, and got another $100 debit. I was going to rent a movie, but with this, I don't know how to exclude him, so I didn't rent. I tried to call WH to tell him this, but he even didn't answer the phone.

How I wish to get out of this whole mess. I feel so frustrated and the suicide thought came out. I just want to end all of these. I know that I am weak and satan sneak in. Please pray for my strength.

LOST, DEEP BREATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! call me tonight. i'm going to email you the number to call and when to call okay. hang in there kiddo, i've been there w/the suicide thoughts (and i tried it right after DDay) and i know you can't help it but there are so many ways to look at this:

1) if we take things into our own hands then we are lying to God that we are going to rely on him and we are calling God a liar because by doing that we are saying that we don't believe he can do everything and take care of us. 2) what would your kids think, do you want them to be stuck w/a thoughtless father and possibly have them be raised by the OW 3) you would be making yourself out to be a liar to your H by saying that you can't follow your words w/your actions 4)you would be allowing the OW to win 5) we need you here at MB.

hang in there and give me time to get home and get something to eat, go through the mail, etc. okay, prayers and hugs, RR

RR, thank you so much. I will hang in here. I won't do anything. But just can't get rid of the thought, the scene and everything. I still have to cook for my children, help them with theri homework, actually, I need to pick up D in few minutes.

But I know that I am losing grip now, I even call the kids name wrong.

Hi LostNHurt,

Hope you're feeling a bit better.

Before I started on an AD (Lexapro) I was having trouble staying out of bed. It was like the bed was a magnet - if I went in the bedroom with clean laundry, then let myself lie down for just a minute... Next thing you know it'd be several hours later and another day wasted.

I've been doing outdoor chores on sunny days and cleaning/organizing indoors on rainy days.

Sometimes it's frustrating that we can't invite the folks we meet here over for a cup of tea and a hug. You're not alone.

lost ok here's the deal no person is worth the S word, no one period. You really need to go into Plan B it's not that bad and trust me you will start to feel better about yourself. I feel so much better now then I did about 5 weeks ago. If you go into Plan B you don't have to go through the pain of watching your H leaving your house because he won't be there to do that. As you know talking to a WS does no good just make's you feel terrible. Everytime I talked to my W my stomach twisted up and I would feel terrible after she left. Now that I don't have to deal with that anymore I'm doing really well. I mean really there is no sense in talking to a WS and trying to reason with them, only when the WS is ready to recommit to the M will any kind of talking do any good. Hang in there ok hugs and prayers to you.

lost, I am so sorry you are feeling bad today, but please don't talk about suicide. This will get better and if you off yourself, you will miss the future good times!! Besides, your kids need you too much.

So please no more talk like this or I will have to open up a can of Texas whoop [censored] on ya and it won't be pretty!

Keep coming here and talking to us when you feel bad. There will be a few of us around this weekend. Hang in there, girl! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lostnhurt,

I am not sure of your whole story (am not here very often) however I certainly could not leave a call for help...

Please believe me, I too have thought that I waould just like to end this. My OD is certainly a handfull, everyday life is stressfull enough some days and then to have this to deal with, oh it would be so easy. But would it? On the news this morning there was the report of body found (drowning) she was a mother of three children (were those children too a 'handful'?). I thought to myself what would have happened to my Ds if I had 'followed through on this fleeting wish'. I taught a child (13 yr) today that shared his confusion and pain from when he was taken away from his mother bc she drank her pain away...he cried in class as I read his work/confession (I have only know him for a few weeks - and he trusted me a virtual stranger with his pain) This event happened almost 8 years ago!!

Lostnhurt, there is hope, always ther is hope. It might not come in the form that your think it should but it will come....do not loosen your grip on it.

Sorry this is so disjointed (many distractions)

I shall think of you, and send you strength and clear thought.

AG

Thank you friends, I am still hanging here.

I am about to give up everything. I may not just let the kids do homework which is due tomorrow, and let them watch a movie. But that way, am I losing my authority over the kids. But If I stick with the rules, it is too painful with me now. This thought just keep haunting me. Please help.

Tell them that they have to work on thier homework for 1/2 hour and then for a treat they can watch a movie...hey what can I say a due date is a due date and the teacher probably has to get final marks in very soon. Althought that depends on the grade.

Glad you are here

Hi {{{lost}}},

I can understand your hopelessness and those feelings.They seep in and start to take over.The best thing to do is get busy and do anything.I had similar down thoughts this morning and MADE myself go out and mow the lawn again.I kept myself busy all day until I am now feeling better about things.The feelings will pass you just have to know how to get through it.

It's a heavy load we all have to carry,keep asking for God's help.HE is there for you at all times.Keep talking to HIM.I am thinking of you.Hang in there.

O

LNH,

Been busy today and am just getting around to catching up on your posts.

DON'T even think seriously about S! If you find yourself thinking about it, think also about how your kids would react and how they would feel if you were gone. It's entered my mind in months past, but along with my feeling its Biblically wrong, I also tried to imagine my kids' and my loved ones' reactions. That helped me to regroup.

God will give you the strength you need. Remember, take things minute by minute if you have to.

As for kids and rules, if you can make them follow rules, that's great. If they don't on occasion, don't beat yourself up. Mine have gotten away with way more than they should have through all this because I didn't have the energy to deal with them, especially with DD. She still has LOTS of issues that need worked out, and she shows no respect to me (although she's friendly about not following the rules now).

My point is that you can't do EVERYTHING all the time. Sometimes a few things have to slide or I'd go nuts.

LL

hi lost,

you've posted to me in the past so i'm returning the favor. i like alot of others i've had the thouhts to. its not wirth it,if you do get into plan b and it dosent work out its better to get revenge(just a joke)by being their all the time and moving on with your life.

so hang in their,ok
wishing you peice of mind. dmb1967

I appreciate all your support so much.I just don't understand why the one I love would hurt me so much, but everyone here I even don't know could love me so much. I can't help crying.

I still feel miserable. Headache, chill, fever, and shaking. The worst is this thought. I have to stop it. I am going to read the Bilble now.

I question myself, what do I live for? I have to make my day minute by minute. Each moment just to say I survive another minute or another day? Why so i feel so hopeless?

Lost,

Listen.You have to know that what you are feeling is normal ok?? It really is an awful feeling but a normal one just the same given how horribly you have been hurt.I know.We all know.It is unfathomable how our loved ones could hurt us this way.There are just no words to really describe it.That's when I really feel down too.The one person that I really need to be able to understand the pain is the one who caused it!

Right now you live because you need to.You have children that need you.This may sound severe but when I am feeling that down,I think about what it would be like for my children at my funeral and BOY does that snap me back.My girls NEED me like your's do too.They need a stable loving parent that is looking out for them FIRST.Not some selfish hurtful spouse looking out for their OWN self interests.

Please think of your kids.Think of how worthy YOU are.I was so wrapped up in my WH all my life that when he did what he did,I was hopeless too.Had I ever really lived for me? That I qestioned in the beginning and I realized that I did.I was happy if my family was happy.That was how I wanted to live my life.That is changed now only minus one,my WH.Think about what it is in life, other than your WH, that inspires you.Surely you had thoughts and dreams before you married.Think about that for awhile.

O

[ May 28, 2004, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

There are two of myself inside me. One is emotional, one is logical. I just took a shower, oh, it was terrible. I was thinking what kind of letter to write to each person, how my life insurance will go, and all my money will be going to my children. I have to shake my head to get them off me.

Then D asked me, are you really going to D? I almost cried. I said that mom will be with you. She said that is not enough. How do i give her enough?

You need to get YOU strong before you can be strong for the kids.

A verse for you:

"I can do everything through him who gives me strength." Phillipians 4:13

I know you don't feel strong right now. Can you go out somewhere with your kids, to a store or something, just to get away from the house right now?

LL

LL, thank you for the verse. I need it. I just took a Xenax, now feel very sleepy. But the kids are restless.

This is serious, lostnhurt. I replied on the other thread about how your might want to die. But you are really thinking about this, planning it out.

YOU NEED HELP NOW. CALL A LOCAL SUICIDE PREVENTION LINE.

Where in MI are you? I am in MI too.

~ Snow

Snow, I am in the metro Detroit area. I just want to sleep now. Like a peaceful sleep and forget everything. But I am ok, these are just thoughts. I am a christan, I can't do that, right? I have to fight with it.

I am near Ann Arbor, lostnhurt. If you ever need a get-together...

I am a Christian, too. But Christians commit suicide every day. I have a sister who has tried to commit suicide three times so I have a little experience here.

Take your nap. But promise me that if you are can't stop thinking along these lines that you will to call for help, immediately.

~ Snow

[ May 28, 2004, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Snowbelle ]

Oh, that is great. I am in the wext side. So probably about 40 min from Ann Arbor. I had few clients over there.

I promise you that I won't do that. But these thoughts just kept coming. You know that they just come, with no warning. I know that satan is working on it. I need to gather strength to fight with it.

I do want to get together. I am so lonely, no one near I can talk to. How I wish someone can hug me. All my relatives are far away. My mom could only cried and be sad, which made me feel worse. My tears keep coming out now.

My e-mail is kzmath@hotmail.com

I'll email you my phone number in case you want to chat. Call anytime! Hang in there.

~ Snow

Hi lostnhurt,

I don't know what to say that might help, but I wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you.

Take care

Girl...listen...I want to remind you of something.

The bible says in John 10:10 "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

Think about this. The devil would love nothing more than to break up your marriage (which, by the looks of it, he is accomplishing). But, hold tight, because we know our God is mightier than any unclean spirits that may have and influence over your husband, through his fogbound emotions, thoughts, and "feelings" right now.

And, don't you think it really pisses satan off to see you holding your head up high, trusting God, having faith, that everything will work out for GOOD in the end?

Or, do you think he is dancing with glee at the thought of trying to plant thoughts of suicide, hopelessness, or doubt in your mind.

Girl, I want you to say a prayer, OUT LOUD, that says "In the name of Jesus Christ, I bind any unclean spirits, any spirit of hopelessness, rejection, abadonement, or suicide. And I cast you out, to dry, uninhabited places, NEVER to return. In the name of Jesus. And in it's place, I fill myself with the grace of God and cover myself with the blood of Jesus. I trust his words, spoken in Roman's 8, that says "14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory." And I trust that God, my father, will gather me up like a child, now in all my pain, and sooth my hurts, and reward my faithfulness, and defeat my enemies by fighting my battles for me."

And then, KNOW that you are not going to stand there and let those evil, destructive thoughts bother you anymore.

There is a song that we sing at church, that I sing at the top of my lungs, especially when I am really hurting from my present circumstances. It says "I am going to go to the enemies camp, and I will, TAKE BACK WHAT HE STOLE FROM ME. I WILL TAKE BACK WHAT HE STOLE FROM ME. I WILL TAKE BACK WHAT HE STOLE FROM ME!

And then, we sing the chorus that says "He's under my feet, he's under my feet, he's under my feet, he's under my feet, satan, is under my feet."

Look, this may sound kooky, but I FELT LIKE YOU DID when this was starting a few months back. And I have tried, unsuccessfully to committ suicide before in my life almost 11 years ago, due to disruptions in my relationship to THIS VERY SAME MAN (my then boyfriend, my now out of his mind cheating husband).

And, I will not let the devil destroy me. he is not going to destroy me. Greater is He that is in me, than he that is in the world.

I love you and am praying for you.

All my friends, I feel better now. Expecially saying the prayer from Serendipity. How I appreciate this board. So many helps from GOD. Thank you. I will take a good night sleep and pray for a good day tomorrow.

Lostnhurt -

I am praying for you too. I am praying that the demon of despair will be cast out of your life in the name of Jesus Christ.

I will pray for you continually. The Lord has sent you here for help. If you cannot shake this suicide idea, you must be admitted to the hospital for awhile. WH will have to watch your kids.

I went into the hospital for depression about 15 years ago. I was thinking seriously of giving up. My doctor told me that people can get to the point where suicide seems like the only way out. This is not true. So I beg you to get some professional help. Please at least talk to your doctor.

LNH,

I agree with Believer and the others. If you ever are in doubt that you might do something serious, get help. You've been through a lot over the past months. It's very draining. You've been strong for your kids through it all. There's nothing wrong with you needing a little help to keep you going, too.

By the way, I was reading your post just before I left work a couple hours ago. I said a prayer for you too, that God would lift you back up and set you back on your feet again.

I understand missing hugs. My son gives them out every now and then, and some of the ladies I go to church with give me hugs on Sunday morning. I know how bad you need one. All I can do is wish you a cyber hug. {{{{{{{{LNH}}}}}}}}}}}}

But hey, you found someone in Michigan who doesn't live too far away! (I used to travel to Michigan several years ago on business. I flew in to Detroit and drove to Jackson, so am familiar with where a few of the cities are.)

I hope you are sleeping as I type this. My kids are both out and I have no idea where either of them are. DS is 18 and out of school now, so I have to let go and let him be a man. DD is, well...you know. She's a bit of a pistol these last couple days. I'm sure she took off with her boyfriend and they're at a show downtown or something. I regret not being a more strict parent when they were little, but I can't turn back the clock.

I just pray to God that he keeps them both safe and brings them home. I feel sort of guilty going to sleep before they get here (and not staying up like ALL worried parents should) but it really does no good. I had a very tense, stressful day at work trying to meet a couple critical deadlines, and am mentally exhausted, so am going to bed now.

Hope you have a good Memorial Weekend. Any plans? Is the weather in Detroit supposed to be nice?

We're supposed to have storms off and on and they have flood watches out again. They don't affect my house--it's on high ground.

But all the rain has made my back yard (which is more clay than dirt) so wet that when it rains heavily, water just stands in spots for days, and the dogs run through it and then track it all in. I'll be really glad when the rains move in and the summer sun comes and dries things out a bit!

I'll check back in on you tomorrow morning. Take care of yourself!!

LL

Good morning friends, I am still here. After talking to Roughroad and prayed togehter, and receiving a lot of supporting e-mails, I felt better. But now my nerve breaks down again, I know it is satan. I will use Serenpity's way to cast it out, pray out loud, read verses.

It is the same symptom, heart beats crazy, shaking, lonelyness, hopeless, chill. Santa go away! I want Jesus to come to my heart.

lost and hurt,

When I get to feeling the way you described, one of the thngs I check is whether I have been eating properly.

I have hypogycemia (low blood sugar). When I am stressed out- which is pretty often these days!- I have to be careful to eat or I get the shakes and very depressed and upset, thoughts of suicide, despair, the same as you described.

It is worse in the mornings, after several hours without eating.

Just in case this is what is happening with you, even if you don't feel hungry, go and eat something, some carbs; fruit, toast, cereal, orange juice. Back off on the sugar for a day or two.

We have to take especially good care of ourselves right now in order to cope with all the stress we are going through.

Shul

ps: God loves you very much. You are not alone, and whats more He is continuously at work in your husbands life, bringing him to a place of repentance and righteousness. In all our lives. We have to remember that and be patient. Adultery is a sign, a symtom , if you will, of spiritual darkness, and it takes time to deal with the attitudes of the heart. Don't give up, God is at work in this situation right now. And His love never fails.

Hi LostnHurt,

Glad to see you are feeling a little better this monrning, and using SerendipIT's prayer for strength. I am worried that you are slipping back and forth so much. It is a sign of serious depression, my friend.

Please see a doctor this week and describe to him/her your symptoms. You might need something much more than Xanax. You need help.

Please take care of yourself!

~ Snow

LNH,

Just quickly checking in on you this morning. I'm glad to see you're up and around. Keep praying.

But interesting comment made by Shul about the low blood sugar: During the early months of my WH's A, I ate very little because I couldn't make myself eat. And I felt horrible, and weak, and I could barely get out of bed. I know part of it was depression, but I also found that once I started eating, I felt better emotionally as well as physically. I also felt worse in the mornings--very weak. Altough I've never been diagnosed hypoglycemic, I'm sure not eating played a part in my emotional as well as physical health.

Are you eating better than you were? I know you were having problems eating a few months ago? If you're not eating, have you tried Ensure or Boost or some of the nutritional drinks. You can force yourself to drink them quickly and get a lot of calories and nutrients.

Please go see your doctor again if this doesn't pass very soon! Are you on A/D's? You may need a different one or an anti-anxiety medicine.

LL

lnh,

Bad thoughts. I learned an interesting thing lately. I was reading about how some people couldn't understand that it wasn't actually them saying the thoughts, even though it was in thier mind, even though it sounded like them. It wasn't them.

To illustrate this, imagine two people seated across from each other. Whisper in the ear of one, "go over and push him out of that chair, as hard as you can!" Your subject looks at you incredulously. "I don't wan't to do that!" So you tell him again. Again the same response. Then tell your subject that he should ask for God's forgiveness for thinking about doing it. Again, he looks at you incredulously and says "It wasn't even my thought. You told me to do it!"

You see? Even though the thought of pushing the guy out of the chair entered his mind, and was probably briefly thought about (Should I? Wait, no!) it was never truly his thought.

lnh, stay strong. It becomes difficult for all of us at times. But if you get a bad thought, stop and think of where it's coming from.

Good luck,
Ethan

lostnhurt - Hope you are better today. I am praying for you and your family. If you continue to feel bad today, please see your doctor. That is why the Lord made doctors, to take care of the sick and broken-hearted. Don't try to tough this out alone.

hello lost,
i have to make this short but i had to come into work today to get my notes from my sessions w/SH before i could call my H (so no i didn't call him this morning like i said i was going to). i'll be trying to call him tomorrow morning w/my notes in hand. so i thought i would check the forums while i was here at work.

it seemed like by the time i talked to you last night you were doing better and i hope that has carried over today. you said such a wonderful prayer w/me last night. i kind of feel like my prayer wasn't very good. but just keep coming here and going to God Lost and you can't go wrong. don't let satan who is a roaring lion, devour God's sheep which is you.

i think you need to post about what we talked about last night about plan B. i don't have time right now but like i said last night, it's time and you are ready for plan B, you are just not prepared.

so can everyone start to chime in and help lost w/devoloping her plan b letter and instructing her on things she needs to do like finding an intermediary, finding a lawyer, dealing w/the bills and the house hold things, how to deal w/the kids, etc. i don't have the knowlege or advice to instruct her on the plan B thing but i think most would agree it's time. i figure it will take her 2-3 weeks to get all her ducks in a row before she can implement plan B. so please help her in this process. i told her she should post the plan B separately in order to get the most responses.

lost, i'm sending a cyber hug to you {{{{{{{{{{lost}}}}}}}}}}} it was so good to talk to you last night and even though we are learning some tough lessons like you said, that if we stay in a constant attitude of prayer, then we will be okay. i will see what i can find out next week about the nose bleeds and a different church in your area. prayers to you and i'll "see" you on tuesday. love and God bless, RR

I am still alive. But it is chaos here. The kids are fighting.

WH came home yesterday, and we went out. I didn't feel too well to be around him, actually I liked the family time, but I was constantly afrais that he was going to leave again. Here it is, he said he is going again. I am very agnry and sad, what a stupid man, why do I love him? What for? Just go forever.

Lostnhurt - Glad to see you are doing okay. I think it is really time to seriously think about Plan B. Have you seen your doctor yet? You might want to do that and get some anti-depressants.

Plan B is very hard at first, but does bring peace.

I am seriously thinking Plan B now. What do I need to do besises the letter? Do I have to seperate legally?

Today we went to church. Of course Wh disappeared again when we came back. I expect that already. But I was so tired, physically and mentally. So I just went to bed, then waken up by the kid's fighting. I know that this whole deal is taking a toll of my health. How much can a dr. do? I just have to be strong by myself, through GOD.

It is so quiet here. I wish everyone have a good time. I am ok, Wh disappeared. But The kids and I are ok, we will make it.

LNH,

I've been being BAD today. I don't have problems with an A or drinking like WH does, but I have problems once I start SHOPPING! I have a hard time stopping. I spent all day yesterday and today trying to update my wardrobe. I have a few cute clothes, but also have a lot of things that should have been tossed a long time ago.

I haven't owed a balance on a credit card of any size for a long time. Now, between the furniture I bought and DS's birthday gift, and my two days of clothing shopping, I'm going to hate myself next month. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm going to go through all the clothes again just to make sure I really want the rest of them. I already have three bags of things I'm going to take back.

But that's quite enough about me....

I do think a doctor could help you. Are you taking antidepressants right now? If not, you might talk to your doctor about them. They don't kick in right away. They take time. But they might be what you need to get you over the hump. And if you are on A/D's and they're not helping, you should tell your doctor and he'll probably switch you.

I do think you're getting closer to Plan B. I can't offer advice because I haven't done a good one, but as I've said all along, it IS easier to not be living in the same house as the WH.

LL

LL, I wish we are close so we can go shopping together. I don't like shopping at all, so if we averagae together, it will halp both of us.

I am taking Celexa, I stopped for a month, I thought I was ok, but now it is getting worse. So I started few days ago. But i am very tired lately. I can eat, but not as normal. I ate less than my DD. My weight was stable.

Just hung up with sis discussing Plan B. We decided to just ask him to move out, then give him the letter. I don't know about the children. She suggests we take turn to have the kids each week. I don't know whehter that is good idea and it is good for the kids. Please give me some idea. I decided not to talk about the financial. I am incontrol all of the money, there is no point to seperate it now.

LNH,

I can browse stores forever just daydreaming. That's one of the things that used to really annoy WH. My best friend at work hates to shop--it's her H who actually likes to. You don't like it. Isn't it funny how we're all so different?

I do wish we were closer. You would have gotten me out of the stores in a fraction of the time (and I'd have spent a fraction of the money I spent! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) And then we could have gone somewhere and enjoyed a nic meal or something together and just visited.

As for your Celexa, that's what I used to take. I liked it, but also like Lexapro (I had to switch because my insurance dropped Celexa). They're very similar, and I actually think I have slightly less anxiety on the Lexapro. Either way, if you stopped taking it, it will take a couple weeks at a minimum to start helping you again. I'd advise you to stick with it for a few months, unless it starts giving you side effects. Then if things settle down, you can wean back off and quit again.

I'm not sure I have much Plan B advice. I didn't legally separate. Ours is all "unofficial". I do need my WH's child support to get by so that complicates things. I have to stay in good enough with him so that he doesn't stop paying.

If you can make it on your own without financial assistance from WH you are in good shape. (Not saying he shouldn't pay something toward the kids--I think he should--but it will be easier if you don't absolutely have to have it to live).

I don't really like telling anyone to tell their spouse to move out. But on the other hand, you are really suffering with him there and acting like he is. If he does move, and you really want your marriage to have a chance, learn from my terrible Plan B and do a better one yourself. I have not done my M any favors by just letting the love slip away. (But I do feel better!)

I guess that's about all I can tell you right now. Oh, and because your children are younger than mine, I do think both you and your WH should take turns with them. He will always be their dad, no matter what happens with the two of you.

LL

lostnhurt -

Well I feel very bad for you. I am still in Seattle, and enjoying time with my sister. I have to go back home on Tuesday and am dreading it.

This has been such a good vacation for me. My boys and I have had a great time here.

Hope you are hanging in there.

Hang in there L&H...plan B will be good for you.

Your WH has controlled your emotions long enough...it is about time you take control of it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Believer, I am glad you have a good time for your vacation. You need it. You are right, it is hard for me, Wh is controlling my emotion. I have to end it soon.

Zizzy, how do you do your plan B? My concern are the children now. I don't know how to deal with it. Please give some advice.

It is summer now, I am off, I am supposed to take care of them. But then WH is off the hook and have fun all the time, is that fair? How can he get a fair share for taking care of the children?

L&H...Fix the time and days for the children to meet their dad. Make sure you do not meet him when he picks up the kids so find a good pick up place like say grandma's house perhaps. Or if you dont have that possibility then sent the kids out the moment you see him at the gate. Make sure you stay out of sight. If he cannot make it on those days tell him to contact you via text message or email. Better yet if you can get an intermediary to help out in communication.

Since my new boundaries were put up, i do not even reply or contact WH. He knows the time and date. If he cannot make it then that is too bad. WH loves DD very much but lately i doubt he cares enough for her.

Remember this...you can handle the kids without WH...you need not tell WH everything...this is absolute important during plan B because those contact with WH regarding children can cause you to fall off the wagon many times. You will get upset when WH show less concern about the children so try not to tell him everything unless it is an emergency.

I hope you find some peace soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lostnhurt,
I booted my H out of the house, and it was three days before they realized he was gone. Your children may be RELIEVED that the chaos is over. You can establish calm. Your children may be acting up and needing counseling because of the constant lack of uncertainty that comes of your H's disappearing acts.

Cherished

lostnhurt -

I'm still having fun in Seattle. But I have to go home tomorrow afternoon. It has been a wonderful vacation. We did all the regular Seattle things, plus lots of fishing, crabbing, clamming and kyaking.

We stayed with my sister, and had a great time every day.

The funny thing is, that since I have been so surrounded by family, I have not thought about WH at all.

I think you really need to get your ducks in a row for Plan B. Get a letter ready, figure out how you are going to do the childcare and visitation thing.

If you are not feeling better, please see your doctor. You can go into an inpatient program and let WH worry about the kids. That might be good for him.

I will talk to you again tomorrow night, when I am back home. Still praying for you.

Dear friends, thank you. I think I am closer to Plan B emotionally now.

I already had a Plan B letter drafted, and an intermediary. The only thing I need is to fighure out about the kids. Probably he can only see them Saturday. I want them back Sunday so I can take them to church. Weekdays, they have to stay with me b/c I will be home. But sometimes I think that is not fair. When I feel better, i will post the letter in a different thread to ask for opinion. Another thing I need is how do i initiate the conversation? How do i tell him to move out. I wish he askes for moving out by himself, instead of me asking him out. Well, whatever it is, he has to be out.

I just don't feel well enough these few day, extremely tired. That is why I didn't post much yesteday. I may go to bed again now. I just feel so weak, and shaking. I did eat, so I don't know what it is.

hello lost,
i did have a pretty good weekend. i'll talk more about it on my thread.

as far as your situation goes there's a few points on what to hit on...

a doctor can help a lot, whether it is just for medication management or by seeing a counselor to help you as well. the usual length of treatment of "depression" w/medication is 12-18months. i think in your situation you would need a MINIMUM of 6 months on a medication. now of course, as many others have said, sometimes it takes a couple of tries to find the medication that best for you. so any time you "try" a medication it should be for at least 2 weeks. that gives it time to start working and time for you to see how you feel. if during the 4th week you still can't see a difference then your doctor can either increase the same medication or change you to another medication. the purpose of medication (anti-depressants) is not really to make you feel "better" but more to stabilize your mood and when that happens a lot of times you can feel "better." then you can use the xanax when you are having bad days or having a hard time going to sleep. i'm not saying that everyone here has to be on medications only that i think in your situation, i would very much like for you to consider it (treatment for at least 6 months) and that's coming more from my nursing background.

yes, please post the plan b letter in another thread to get more responses. i think i even saw a thread here recently that had sample B letters. what's more, i think you should let us know more of all the specifics. such as, you say you have an intermediary, well, who is it (not their name) but who are they to you and your family, do they understand their purpose and what your goal is? also, if you are concerned w/all the free time your H has and the unfairness of it (rightfully so) then tell us what his schedule is and what thoughts you have. i think saturdays are good for him to have but if he has to work, then what? i think wanting the kids on sunday in order to takt them to church is EXCELLENT. after all they are being molded to be believers as well.

the reason why i say to post the specifics is because people here will be able to read and ask you questions that you may not have considered before. i am one for being prepared, that's probably part of my problem in all this is that i don't want to feel unprepared again and that boils down to control. anyway, that's my issue. so by posting the specifics and exploring all the issues w/the people here who have gone through siimilar situations, you will be the most prepared you can be, even if it's just about the issue of kicking him out and then giving him the letter or if it's giving him the letter then kicking out. i think you get what i'm saying.

enough about that...were you able to get in touch w/the animal shelter? if not, that's okay maybe just concentrate on getting plan b prepared right now and then you can do the animal volunteer thing after plan b is started.

i've got some questions for you that i will email to you. i probably won't be able to do it until the end of the day. but anyway, hang in there and prayers to you, God Bless, RR

I just don't feel well at all. But I don't know what it is. I am so tired, feeling very cold and fatigue. I went to bed 10am, with 3 layer of covers, and still felt cold. But I felt asleep for almost 2 hours. I finally prayed and asked Jusus to help me. Now I got up, but still feel shaky. Is it just the side affect of Celexa? But it was not like this last time I tool them.

Believer, wishing you a safe trip home. Prayers for you.

LNH,

Those symptoms you mention, while I may be totally wrong, don't sound like anything that Celexa should cause. When I first start A/Ds, sometimes I get more anxious or nervous. I have problems sleeping. Some forms (Paxil) made me yawn really bad, and then when I'd yawn I'd have tremors. Once in a while I'll have little "electrical zap" feelings in my arms or legs when I move.

All of those either never happened or passsed quickly on Celexa.

Your feeling cold and tired could be depression, or it could be from you lacking vitamins or minerals if you're not eating well. Are you taking vitamins with minerals or iron?

LL

LL, I take multivitamin everyday. This morning I had a bagel and tea. But I just felt so cold. I had lunch too. Now I just vacumed the house to have some excersice, I feel a little bit warmer, but still shaking. Wish some Dr. here to tell me what it is.

LNH,

I was cold all day today. Had my space heater on at work and had it up to almost 80 in my office. I also had no energy. I could have fallen asleep with my head on the keyboard. No concentration either.

The chill must be emotionally-related. I had an emotional meltdown tonight. You can check out my "fog" post. I won't bore you on here.

I do feel for your pain. How I felt tonight I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have felt if I were in a good, dark Plan B. I didn't think I had any feelings left for WH. I do.

LL

Hello Ladies, today is another day, prayers to you.

Lostnhurt,

I think that at least some of your physical symptons may improve with a move to Plan B. Like you, I had a religious commitment to marriage that was so great I was willing to "forgive" behavior from my husband that was thoughtless.

Reflect on the fact that there is a hell for those who do not repent (turn away). God does not tolerate our persisting in treating others badly, and I don't think he asks us to tolerate thoughtless behavior from our spouse. Disappearing acts are thoughtless.

I went through a lot trying to reconcile my religious commitment to a convenantial marriage with staying married to a man who betrayed me and hurt me physically and then turned around and told his family "It's all up to Kathy to forgive me". If it had been all up to me, then that was easy: I was the one who had to change! My physical reaction was to gain 40 pounds, but everyone is different. Now I know it is up to my H to change, and I can't make him. I can change to accomodate his needs, but he also has to change to be a good husband for me.

Plan B is not giving up. Plan B is recognition of your own dignity that you don't deserve to be treated this way.

Cherished

Cherished, LL and RR, good morning. I am working on my Plan B letter now. I can't wait to move to Plan B. WH was talking about cutting the lawn for the whole sumer, trimming the tree, etc, like he has plan here for the whole summer. I hope that he will wake up soon. Otherwise he will be cutting someone else's lawn.

Believer, Are you home safe and sound? Just check on you. Miss you and prayers for you.

lostnhurt - Good morning. I was mixed up on the day we are going home. It is today. I will be home in Oceanside at 8:00PM your time.

Hang in there. You will get through this..

Believer, I am glad that you didn't mix up the flight the other way. Guess I am not the only one who mixed up days and times. I do that often. But you will be home soon. Hope you have a happy flight.

My only concern is that my situation is different than others. My WH wants out of the M, the A maybe over, other WHs wants to reconcile, but can not break off the A. SO if I kick him out to Plan B, do I just push him away? Please help me, my faith is so weak.

regardless whether the A is over or not it's time for plan B. this poem is for you:

One night a man had a dream. he dreamed he was walking along the beach w/the Lord. across the sky flashed scenes from his life. for each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand: one belonging to him and the other to the Lord. When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand. he noticed that mnay times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints. he also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times in his life. this really bothered him and he questions the Lord about it.

"Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you, you'd walk w/me all the way. but i have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footprints. i don't understand why when i needed you most you would leave me. the Lord replied, "my son, my precious child, I love you and would never leave you. during your times of trial and siffereing, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you."

I'm sure you've read and heard this Footprints poem before but it never hurts to read/hear it again. God Bless, RR

RR, thank you for the encouragement. I do feel that GOD is carrying me. Otherwise, I would have fallen already. But I still feel so weak. Please keep me in your prayer.

I will definitely counsel with SH again before going to Plan B. I will need to talk to my intermediary too about the details. But most important,I need to get myself moving. I need to get busy physically!!!

I think that I will do pretty good for no contact in Plan B. Wh did not call whole day yestreday and today. Of course, when he disappeared, he did not call either, he owuld not take call either. I just feel that my heart is shattered.

LNH,

The only teeny piece of advice I could offer right now regarding going to Plan B is something that was told to me several times...

"If what you're currently doing isn't working, it's time to change plans."

I probably should take this to heart, too, since I had my little emotional breakdown last night. I know I also need to do a true Plan B. I didn't think being in contact was a problem since my feelings have been so missing and since I'm still not sure I want him back, but when I'm feeling weak and vulnerable and I do something non-thinking like go to his shop and plant a hug on him, I fall to pieces. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Makes me miss what once was...

I think you're doing great. You've Plan A'd long enough that your LB is now low enough that you're ready for Plan B. I also think it's probably a good idea to talk to SH one more time, just to make sure you have a good solid plan.

LL

LL, I know. My sister said the same thing too. But whenever I thought of not having an H, my heart just goes so sore. I feel terrible now.

Don't think too far into the future. No one knows what is going to happen.

Don't think of not having a H anymore. Think of Plan B as temporary.

I haven't read my Al-Anon books for a while, but happened to read one of the daily readings just a few minutes ago, and it's fitting to your (and my) situation.

Here it is, paraphrased:

"In the face of seemingly impossible problems, it is easy to believe that our most negative thoughts reflect the truth..... No matter how insistent a feeling may be, it is just a feeling, not a prophecy.....We can try to make wise choices today, but what will happen in the future is out of our hands."

We need to trust that God will direct us and help us make our decisions, and that whatever happens, that he is using it to help us grow as Christians.

I know it's hard to see any of that when you're hurting so badly. I've been there, too. Thankfully, I'm feeling a little better tonight than I did last night. I believe the reason is that I have been focusing on God and trying hard to NOT think about WH.

I will say a short prayer for you before I go to bed.

LL

lostnhurt -

Well I am back home. Everything went well. I stayed with my sister for 9 days. We had a wonderful time. She cried and cried when we left today.

My father is extremely sick with congestive heart failure and prostate cancer that has spread. So I really needed to see him too.

I also talked to my mother and sister about what would happen when my father gets much sicker. My mother did not want to talk about it. My sister did not want to talk either.

So it was real hard. My mother said that she is the boss of her house, and she will do what she has to. But she is almost 80. I told her that she is the boss, but I want to help.

I can take 6 months off work to take care of my father, and still get paid. I told my mother about this, and she finally agreed. My sister agreed too. She is a partner in a law firm, and works constantly. So the plan is that I will go stay with mother and father, and help them.

During all of this, I did not think about WH at all. I need to help my family. I will do that. WH is just a distant memory for me now.

Sorry to hijack your thread. The last 10 days have been wonderful for me, but also sad.

Believer, I've been thinking of and praying for you all the time. I am so glad that you are home safe and sound. I am sorry for your father's situation. But your family is realy blessed by GOD that you can have a chance to take care of him. You are such a wonderful gift from GOD. It reminds me that I need to be closer to my parents.

LL, thank you so much. I know that I don't ned to worry, there is no need to worry. I can't controll everything. Why do I worry the thing that I can not control? I love your prayer. I am thankful for everything you mentioned. I knew all these and prayed and thanked GOD. But I still feel so bitter, sad, and down. SO, this morning, after dropping DD to school, I prayed out loud in the car: Jesus, I praise you, thank you. Help me to cast satan away. Tears came out, I felt better.

I know I am whining again.

I just feel so sad and hopeless, from inside. Why don't I feel the joy? I prayed so hard to get the inner peace, but satan keep coming. I feel so hopeless. I question myself why do I live? What do I live for?

do you need some more 2x4's? thinkin that you might, you need to get out of this negative thinking and yes, you are whining a little.

i put something in the mail for you yesterday and hopefully that will put a smile on your face and your daughters. i don't have much time to post today, i'm starting to get really behind and need to do a lot of catching up. but anyway, my mom has sent me a lot of cards over the past few months and some of them have been so perfect, beautiful, supportive, etc. that it seems they were just written for me. God sent those cards to me through my mom and i'm going to type one of them here now.

"when you are hurting, come to me and i will bind your wounds. when you need to be assured, come to me and i will give you my embrace. when you can no longer go on, come to me and i will carry you. when you need comfort, come to me and i will wipe your tears. when you are uncertain of my love, come to me and i will speak my heart to you. always rmember that in your need you are coming to the one who came for you. may you be comforted by the one who invites us to come to him (God)."

matthew 11:28 "come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and i will give you rest."

God bless, RR

RR, please bang me. I need 2x4's. I need to wake up. But I couldn't lift myself up. I don't feel like to do anything. Nothing is meaningful and worth doing. I even have no one to talk to. The phone doesn't ring either. I felt that I am forgotten by the world.

Believer, you are home! How was your flight?

I am down again. Please bang me with a 2x4 for whining. I called the animal network again and left a message,s till no answer. I called the community school where offers classes, they are closed for the summer. DO you have more idea for what to do to get rid of WH in my mind? I can't help thinking him. I haven't heard of his voice since yesterday morning. I know it is nothing, but it is so hard for me. Tell me what I should do?

lostnhurt -

Give yourself a break. Of course you are going to be sad. You are going through a sad time right now, but it will not always be that way. That is what you need to remember.

I have been trying to call you, but realized that you are not home. Hang in there and believe that you will have brighter days again.

Believer, I am home actually. That is why I am so sad. But I am going to take a walk now and hope to lift my mind a little bit.

Believer, I got your message. Thank you for calling. It was my cell phone I left upstairs, that was why I didn't hear it.

Just got an e-mail from WH, he asked me whether to go to boy scout picnic tomorrow evening. I really don't know whether I want to go. First, I may meet my intermedairies tomorrow evening, or Sat. evening. Second, the picnic place is about 1 mile from his work, he will drive by himself there. I am afraid that after the picnic he will be gone again, that hurts a lot.

Should I go or not? Or just have him take the kids to go?

LNH,

Are you okay today? Your threads have been very silent...

Just checking up on you.

LL

checking in too.

prayers to you, RR

Friends, thank you for checking into me.

Last night, WH was home. But I didn't have much chance to talk to him, and he was so cold anyway. I don't want to be annoying, one way I felt sad too. I asked him whether he wanted to do the lesson, he said, no. I fuessed that is about it in our M. I went to bed.

This morning, I woke up feeling chill again. After dropping D to school, I went back to bed and told WH to take care of S. But S didn't like him, they fought. It ended up I had to get up to take care of him, he dropped him to school. I went back to bed, shivering with 3 layer of covering and a hot pad. But I felt asleep. THen my mom, sister's boyfriend and sister called. They all comforted me. I finally got up at 12:00.

Yesterday, I talked to the pastor in Canada. He told me to praying and fasting. SO I didn't eat anything today except drinking some tea. I felt ok, just headache. I want to sleep again.

After I got up, I went grocery shopping and just came back. On the way, I listening the radio of family life. One message was talking about the eternal life, surprisingly, my mom, sis and her boyfriend all told me the similar thing. I think GOD is talking to me today with this subject. I need to rely on him more.

I am not going to sit in front of computer too much, otherwise I will clue to it. But I will come back to check once a while. THanks, friends. I still don't feel very strong yet, but I will.

lostnhurt - Glad to see you posting. Yes, you will feel good again. You just have to go through the pain. I was completely, totally miserable. Now I feel great. You will too.

Believer, thank you. You always give me the best encouragement. Are you still at home? When do you go back to work? Did you receive the e-mail I sent to you a while ago?

Hope you have a great day.

didn't i tell you the programs on that radio network are good? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> sounds like you are doing better and i am so very glad. yes, it is a "rough road" we are going down but you have us and most importantly, God. i can't wait to get my mail and see what you sent me. i gotta go for the weekend but i'll be thinking and praying for you as always. i'll miss you but will "talk" to you on monday. God Bless, RR

I am in my office now, there is still about 15 min. before the class starts.

WH didn't come home again last night. He said he will take the kids to Chinese school. I had no idea where he was. Just called him and asked where he is about. He told me in the car onthe way home. I know he is lying, it was so quiet on the other end.

I feel like I am in Plan B already. No contact, no phone calls, nothing. But I will be strong, I can get over all these.

Lostnhurt,
You're not in Plan B. Plan B is about telling your H that he is not welcome until and unless he is considerate towards you.

The Plan you're in now is hoping that your H will see the light before you remove yourself from his presence. Right now, you're available to him whenever he wants. In Plan B, he comes back under very specific conditions.

Cherished

Just finished teaching. I am so exauhsted, but don't want to go home. WH is with the kids. I don't want to see him leaving, it hurts.

lostnhurt -

Glad to see you here again. I am reading a book right now that is probably not a marriagebuilders book. It is called "Why Men Love *****es". It is not what it sounds like. But it does tell about how men get bored with a woman who does everything for them.

You might want to check it out.

Believer, what is the author of that book?

Yesterday, I came home exauhsted and went straight for bed for 2 hours. WH was home and was sitting inthe front of computer again. After I woke up from the nap, I went bike riding with S and rented a movie Bruce Almighty. DD went baby sitting and WH was still sitting in front of computer. We enjoyed the sun and the ride so much. We stopped to read the historical signs and found some fish in a little creek. I found out the DD gave me a lot of pain too by her whining and complaining.

After DD came home, she said she wanted to have mid east food, so we went out to have it. But S ate too much and had a stomach ache. Our evening ended with watching the movie. It was a great one, funny and educational. I hope that WH will get the point.

Today DD gave me a lot of headahce again, she didn't want to get up. S and I went to church without her. I prayed so hard for her and WH in church. Now I just finished a hair cut to WH and S. WH went out with D to get something. It seemed that they develope a good relationship, and I hope it lasts.

I will meeat my intermedaries tomorrow evening to discuss Plan B details. I really hope that I don't have to go into it, but if it is GOD's will, I will do it.

lostnhurt -

The book is by Sherry Argov. It is really good. I wish I had read it a long time ago. It describes so much of our marriage. It is like the more I did, the less WH did. It started out great, but over the years, I did more and more, and finally he did nothing.

Well I have to go back to work tomorrow - Ugh. I love my job, and am really grateful for it, but when I go on vacation, no one does my work, and I come back to piles and piles. I usually even go in and work on the weekend for free just to get caught up.

I have a roommate now and he is very very good looking. He is very nice to be around, cheerful and considerate.

Believer, I am glad things work out to you, roommate, work and everything. Do work too hard tomorrow when you go back to work,take it step by step.

You are very right about doing things for WH, I am scaling back. Like today, WH mowed the lawn again. I would not touch that lawn mower as long as he is here and doing it. I will get that book and read it.

lostnhurt -

Get the book. It is very good. I made many mistakes by taking care of too many things - finances, cooking, cleaning, his kids and mine, yard work, my car, shopping, relatives, EVERYTHING. I thought I was being a good helpmate.

But as the book explains, if you do too much in the relationship, they begin to take advantage of it, and you become "old faithful" instead of their lover. They get bored.

I went and bought some new shoes today, a dress, and some pants. I also planted some Japanese Maple trees. I have to get off computer now. My roommate wants to use the phone.

hello lost, checking in w/you after the weekend. sounds like it was okay. let us know what the intermediaries say. just want to make sure they understand their role and will do what you ask-sometimes this might mean reminding YOU of plan B. have you made an appt w/SH yet to go over your letter and plan? let us know when that is and what he says. i have a lot to catch up on at work and i'll type more later. prayers to you, RR

Good morning, RR and Believer and other friends,

Weekend was ok, but I just felt the insecurity, just like that anything will be gone in the next minute. I kept telling myself to enjoy every minute I had with the family.

Yesterday afternoon, Wh asked the kid where they wanted to go, they said go fishing. But he when out shopping with DD. S and I were home digging worms, but they didn't come home till 6pm. Then he said he was hungry. Fortunately i had dinner ready, so we ate quickly and went fishing in a little lake. S got the biggest one, and D got another big one the last minute. It was a lot of fun. We got to see the sunset too. The kids both told me that the cloud look so beautiful, it maybe GOD. I was looking at it and praying, the fish went off the hook.

After the kids went to bed, I watched NBA with WH which I did not do at all before. It seemed that he like that I watched with him. We talked about the game, but I found that I don't know any of the players. Guess i have a lot to learn.

Well, WH went out shopping and bought a set of DVD player and sound equipment. I didn't know why he bought it and without talking to me. Talk about POJA! But then he said: I was going to buy some hand saop, but I didn't know whether you like it. Why did he buy a $300 equipment without thinking of me, instead about when he wanted to buy saop? Am I just worth for the saop?

But anyway, he was installing the DVD palyer in my room. I just don't unsestand. I had one already they(VCD), I don't watch too much. He doesn't live in the master bedroom anymore, what for? I asked him what he wanted to do with the old one, he said we can give it to my parents. We have another DVD player downstairs. I just think that he is out of mind.

Well, I will meet my intermediaries to explain to them the meaning of Plan B and show them the letter. I haven't had an appointment with SH yet. I am waiting for some information before I made the decision for Plan B. Of course, I still wish that I don't have to go to Plan B. We will see.

Last night, I went to my friends house. The couple will serve as my intermediary. When i explained to them the situation and what plan B is, they agreed that it maybe the best I can do right now, b/c WH is getting to comfy for what he is doing now. I am still very scared, but I will keep praying very hard for GOD's guidance for this. I also pray for myself to have strangth and patience to do that.

This morning, I went to D's school to serve their pancake breakfast. It was fun. Now I am in the library, but the air condition is getting too cold for me. I kept feeling this cold and chill lately. I have to go home to have some hot air instead. We are suppose to go to to 92 today.

hey lost, hope you are dong okay, i didn't get to type much yesterday, lots of stuff to catch up on after the weekend.

i'm not sure what to say about the DVD thing, sound just like more of your H's confusing behavior. i think you just need to proceed on your course until he "shows" or "tells" you that thigns are other wise different. remember to plan A until plan B.

how did the meeting w/the intermediaries go last night. type when you can, i gotta go, prayers to you, RR

we must have been typing at the same time, just saw your post about the meeting w/the intermediaries. glad it went okay and that you will have more support and help. God bless, RR

I don't know what is wrong with me. I felt so cold in the library, then came home straight to bed. Slept for 2 hours until a client called. The lonely feeling creeped in now. I have to find something active to do.

LNH,

Sorry--haven't posted in a while. I wasn't on very late last night.

First, sounds like your intermediary meeting went well. When (if) you decide to Plan B, you have things in order.

Second, have you gone to your doctor lately to make sure there's nothing they can do for your exhaustion and your feeling cold all the time? I'm sure it's just depression, but it never hurts to get a professional opinion.

I agree, staying busy and not thinking of WH is the key to staying calm. I am having problems with headaches the last couple days which always make me more moody, and this morning I found myself thinking about WH and the vacation we took together with the kids not quite a year ago.

I could still remember us driving down out of the California desert in the night and he and the kids seeing the expanse of the L.A. lights for the first time (I've been to CA before).

I started crying. I cried all the way to work. I sent him a text reminding him of the trip. I walked into the office with watery eyes and a pink nose. Not good! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I think I'm also a little blue because he called this morning to say insurance is close to settling on his wrecked truck and that someone is interested in buying it, wrecked, from him, along with the camper of ours that he is currently living in.

I know I'd never stay in that camper again--I know what has gone on there with he and OW. And I think it would be good to sell it, and probably his truck, and him get a car that gets better mileage (which would then rule out camping forever, though, even if we got back together--no truck to pull a camper).

However, if he loses his camper "home", he is probably looking at two options--come home (which I don't think he's ready for and I'm not either), OR move to an apartment which at this point, OW would move into as well (he already told me that'd happen if he gave up the camper).

It's sort of weird. One minute I don't want him back because I don't want the marriage we had before and I certainly don't want what he currently is, but on the other hand when I think about all the things of "ours" going away (the truck we special-ordered, our camper), I feel a loss and I wonder if deep down inside I'm not ready to let him go.

I'm monopolizing your thread with my whining, so I'll quit now!

LL

I know I have better let the Dr. chack out what is wrong withme. My heart is ponding and I feel dizzy now. But chances are when you go there, they will say everything is normal. Maybe tomorrow.

My mom just called. She said my dad wanted to called me, but he was afraid of WH would get mad. I felt so bad about what he said. He is my father, he should stand up for me and confront WH. I feel sorry for myself too.

WH didn't call me at all of course. But he left some vacation brochure and print out for picnic on the counter. I don't know what he meant. He didn't talk to me about them. It really bothers me with his attitude. I know I should put him in the back burner, but how do I?

Oh, the lonly feeling again. I just don't know how to get rid off it. I am when I go home, Wh will leave right away for basket ball game and not come home at all. I hate that act so much. How do other people deal with things like this?

lostnhurt - You can do this. Just keep biding your time until Plan B. Do some things with your kids, and yourself. This will not last forever.

I will hang in here. Believer, how do you feel now? I wish we are closer, so we can go fishing together.

I am doing much better. My boys caught 2 trouts last night and they were yummy.

Tonight I am making your fried rice dish and orange chicken. In Seattle we went to a gourmet Chinese restaurant. They made orange chicken out of chicken breasts. Boy was it good. So I am cooking that tonight.

Good for you, Believer. I should post more Lost receipts soon.

WH is gone again. No more lessons.

When I came home, DD asked me this: when are you going to D with daddy? I asked her why she asked. She said she saw the conselor today, theconselor told her to ask me, so she can move on with her life if we divorce. I told her that we are working on the M. Mom doesn't want a D. She said why? The conselor told her that people maybe happier after D. Since her dad is not happy, it may be better to D soon.

I was so angry with this conselor. I will call her tomorrow. What do I say to her besides telling her that she has nothing to do of my M and telling D such nonsense. Should I fire her?

LNH,

I am very apprehensive when I work with a counselor for that very reason. I have met too many of them that believe the solution for everything is to D and move on. I think they're are trained to help people work through things like D, and not to stay amd work on things like M.

I realize at this point my heart is not in my M like it was, but I still don't need anyone telling me or my children how to work though a D. Not until I'm ready. And the same goes for you and your family.

My DD's office manager at her school, while DD and I both like her, has told Kaitlin that WH and I will end up D. Her H left her some time ago for OW. Okay, so maybe we will; maybe we won't. It's no one else's business (people on this board excepted, because you all are going through the same thing), to tell one of us we should D.

The counselor needs to understand that you are trying to save your M, and she needs to be working with your daughter with that in mind.

LL

LL, you are very right. I am going to call the conselor. But sge is not in her office today.

I will be going to DD's school and join them to walk to a park. Just got up again. I am so tired lately, always want to sleep.

Mt friends, RR, Believer, LL, and all, how are you today? Hope you all have agood day today.

i can't believe what that counselor said! i guess it should come as to no surprise being in the world that we are in and the total disregard to the sanctity of marriage. but anyway, please talk to the counselor as soon as you can. if she cannot turn what she said to your daughter around and counsel her w/regards that D is not the answer to everything then i would find another counselor. if you contact Dr. Dobson's organization focus on the family they whould be able to help you find a counselor in your area.

remember what i said about the recipe book? it's a good idea and something that you can do for your daughter and would be a nice legacy. you can do one in english and one in chinese. gotta go, prayers to you, RR

I haven't had a chance to call the conselor. Now the kids are home, I don't want to call her. Tomorrow is the last day of school, I will call her in the morning. Now the kids are off, I have to find activities for them.

I went chaperon for D's fieldtrip. We walked from her school to a park about 2 miles one way. It was hot(90) and humit. We had pizza, icecream. Then walked back. It was fun. But D's mood was so swingy. One minute she was happy, the next min she was sad. She said her friends left her. But I saw all the girls were coming to cheer her up. It is definitely her problem.

I came home exauhsted, but I like it. Wh will disappear tonight. When I am home more often, I guess that will be the time he disappear completely, time for Plan B.

When we came home, D let loose her hamster in my bathroom. Now it went into some crack, she couldn't find it. I don't know what I would do if that creature come to my bed in midnight.

LNH,

Hamsters aren't too scary. I'd much rather have that come visit me in bed than say, a spider!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (Hate 'em!!) I do hope your D found it though, or worse things might happen to it if it goes days without food and water. My daughter had pet rats (much friendlier than hamsters) and they got loose a couple times and really scared us. Once we thought one was in the furnace ductwork and all I could think about was the $$$ it was going to cost if the rat died down there and we had to have a professional come clean it out. Fortunately, the rat ended up being found behind a desk.

On to other things. Are you feeling any better or any warmer? Have you made an appointment with a doctor yet?

I'm guessing nothing much has changed with your WH. Are you planning on going to Plan B at the end of June? (I have no business asking, since I can't seem to do it at all.)

LL

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Are you planning on going to Plan B at the end of June? (I have no business asking, since I can't seem to do it at all.)
<hr /></blockquote>LL, thank you for asking! I still have the same plan unless WH changed dramatically. Hefinished intalling all the speakers(6) and the DVD in my room and disappeared yesterday. Who knows what he is thinking.

S found the hamster right before the bed time. What a relief! I had a good night sleep last night b/c of all the walk yesterday. I still have the chill, but I am not going to see the Dr. unless it gets really bad. I thnk it is depression related. I will call D's conselor today.

LL, how about you? I will read your thread a little bit. All my friends, LL,RR, Believer, etc, I hope you have a good day.

The weather here is sharing a rollercoster ride with my mood. It was 90 and sunny in the morning yesterday morning, then it was stormy in the afternoon and night. It is 60 now.

speaking of moods and weather, just had my session w/SH and he said that the moods of the WS change w/the weather.

sounds like you are doing better. i have to make this short so i can post about my session. i did reply to you on my thread about your brother's visit.

i went to the housing office yesterday but they closed at 3pm, i didn't know what time they closed but assumed it was 4pm and i got there about 4:05 because of traffic. so i'm going to leave even earlier today. even though it looks like i'm getting tomorrow off from work because of the national day of mourning due to pres. regean's funeral, i wasn't sure if the housing office would be open tomorrow because of the same thing. i'll still come in work tomorrow to get some stuff done but not sure when or for how long. at least i can sleep in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

gotta go, prayers to you, RR

roughroad - I have tomorrow off too, but am going to work to catch up. I was gone 2 weeks and still have not caught up.

lostnhurt - Hope you will see a doctor soon. You need to start feeling better.

Believer, I am fine. I think I will survive, even once a while the suicide thought popped in. But whenever it happened, i prayed right away and asked for Jesus to help me.

Kids are off school now. They will be home starting tomorrow. I found some camps for S, but DD will not have a camp till mid August.

RR, how did your sesion go?

believer, do you work for the federal government as well?

lost, absolutely best thing you can do about those thoughts is to pray. get your D involved w/the animal shelter until her camp in august and it will also give you something to do. you could also get her involved w/the recipe book. i just posted my session, it is really really long so have fun reading it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> thank goodness i can type fast.

gotta go, prayers to you, RR

RR, I forgot to tell you that the animal shelter does not take anyone younger than 18. DD was disappointed. But we are going to get a dog, she will have something to do. She doesn't like cooking either. I called the conselor, but haven't gotton any reply yet. I will read your post now. Believer, are you going to to watch the funeral tomorrow? Kids don't want to, but I want them to.

It is another day. I was able to get up at 8am instead of 6am, b/c kids are out of school. They are still sleeping, I enjoy my quiet time. Even though getting up 2 hours later than usual, I still feel head heavy. Last night,I watched NBA with WH till 12am. I fell asleep few times during the game, you can tell how inteerested I was about the game. Nothing new happening here, same old crap WH, distant and cold. I just have to enjoy myself.

Yep - I work for the federal government at the Navy Hospital here. I don't do the medical side, but the contracting/facilities part.

lostnhurt - How about some more recipes?

Ok, it is the first day of summer(of school), it is cold(57) and wet here. I couldn't get the kids up. S was up 11am, D was just up at 12am. How do I fet them up for the rest of the summer? I just cleaned two bathrooms, one more to go. How did they get so dirty? It seemed that WH pee on his sink!! Yuk!.

Well, since I posted such yuky stuff here, I will have my receipe next one. Believer, hold on tight. I will come back when I clean the other bathroom, and will have the Lost receipe of the day.

Great! I'm in the mood to cook.

I'm also up for a good recipe!

See, something to keep LNH busy and her mind off the situation for a few minutes, and look at all the people who ready this thread who will can always use another recipe!!!

LL

hello lost,

that's too bad about the animal shelter. how unfortuanate that people who want to volunteer can't because of their age. think of all those animals who are missing out. it's also such a good thing for kids to learn responsibility and satisfaction for helping others. oh well.....you tried. if you do get a dog, look in the paper or get one from the animal shelter. try to stay away from the pet stores. you could even adopt a greyhound. there is a big misconception that they need a lot of exercise. THEY DON'T! they are naturally fast and in fact like just lying around the house or on the couch just as much as the next dog. if you find a dog and want an opinion about whether it would be a good choice or not, just let me know. of course i think it would be better for you guys to start w/an "older" dog versus a puppy. i think a puppy would just put way too much stress on you guys right now. but at the same time they need homes too.

do you usually go to a special store to get the food you cook? like a asian market? just curious. i'm not a big "noodle" or "seafood" fan but any other asian type dishes i usually like. i acutally really like korea food, i love the beef and broccoli dishes, and also the General Tsao's chicken but i'm not sure if this is a chinese or japanese dish, i think it's chinese or maybe i should say chinese-american. oh great! now i'm hungry!

gotta go! sounds like you are doing better lost and have a good weekend, prayers to you and all those on MB, RR

Ok, friends, it took me a while to come back. The bathroom was cleaned, and lunch was served.

D's conselor finally called. I asked her whether WH told her that we are DV'ing, she said no. But she said that she got the impression that is what is going on. How can she? I told her that we have problem, but no legal action and I want to save the M. Neither I or WH told her that we are DV'ing, she can not assume that. She said but I think he is pretty much made up his mind. I told that I knew and I know where I am standing, but at this moment, no DVing. I don't know about tomorrow, next month, or next year. I don't hope that it will happen. I told her that I don't want D to get the message that people can walk away their problem DV, and get happy. I don't want her to be placed to the group of kids whose parents are DV or name calling. She said ok. But she told me that D is very depressed. I told her I knew, that is the reason I took her in. But anyway, I will see what happen. SHe kept telling me to talk to WH to find out what he thinks. I almost wanted tell her that it is not your business.

Here is today's receipe:

Chicken wings, 2 lbs, cut up in 3 parts(my favorite part is the tip)

marinateed with salt(to your taste), 1 tsp garlic powder, 1 tsp onion powder, 3 Tsp cooking wine(or any wine) for at least 30 minutes(can be longer).

In a seperate container to make sauce:

4 Tsp soy sauce
1 Tsp vinager
1 Tsp sugar

Use a nonstick fry pan with lid, the class lid is the best. Place the chichen wings tightly in the pan, cover, use highest temp, for 1o minutes or until brown. Turn off heat to avoid burning your hand, turn all the wings to other side, do the same for another 10 minutes. Pour in the sauce, turn of heat and cover for 5 minutes. Yum. My kids favorite. You can have it with beer.

Just came back from boy scout picnic. I went out bought 3 toilet seats and changed them. And bought some latern for decoration too. I am proud of myself.

Well, done teaching today and just talked to sis. DD has a lot of trouble. Last night we watched a movie, Anger Management. She was wriggling and hit the button stopping the movie. So Wh and I both said that she shouldn't do that. She stomed out to her room and yelling I hate you. The rest of the evening she was so mad. I finally got her down and had her appologize. Then at night, she asked me again, when are you going to D, it takes too long. I don't feel good. Dad is not happy, why do you still want to have this family?

How do I answer her? Where did she get this from? Her conselor? I definitely have to change one. Please give me advice how to deal with her?

Tell daughter that you don't believe in divorce and have a plan. Her anger comes from fear. Try to reassure her.

Good to see you doing things. Keep busy, that is the best. I got a neighbor's brother to paint the mobile home that my boy's live in. Next week he is going to paint the outside of mine. He is temporarily out of work, so it helps both of us.

Hang in there. I am thinking of you. I am back into Plan B now, so things are quiet.

Well, I don't know how to describe this. I came home very tired, had lunch WH cooked, then took a nap. Afte napping, Wh was gone. I didn't know where he went. But he came home a little bit. He told me he went to Home depot to exchange the sprinkler head. Then I said that we need to go grocery shopping. He told me to go by myself, it doesn't need the whole family to go. SO I went alone. When I came back, he made a lot of food. But after dinner, he's gone again. I have no idea where he went, but I locked the door and do not expect him to come home tonight. I felt sorry for hime, he was home so boring. If he can not be happy here, I don't think he will find happyness somewhere else.

But what bothers me was D again. She asked me again, why are you Dv? Dad doesn't love you anymore, he is not happy here. Why do i have a D like that? Does she want me to D? I told her that I am working out. She said yeh, you told me you are going to change yourself, but it is not good. you got to be yourself. I feel like I am an idiot in front of her. I really don't want to talk to her about that.

She is being the typical teenage daughter. Of course she will take out her feelings on you. It is not safe for her to be that way with her dad.

Hang in there. I know it is hard, but you must do it.

Believer, thank you. I will hang in here. But I feel very lonely and empty, tired.

Have you tried anti-depressants yet? You might do that. I went to doctor for checkup today, and she told me that I am on a very low dose, and raised it. They really help me, but I have been having trouble sleeping again. I have to get back in Plan B.

I wish you would take better care of YOU. There are lots of stresses in your life right now. But it will not always be this way.

Your WH has not left. What is up with that? Remember when you thought he was moving out? And he is still coming and going, but seems to be interacting with you some.

The whole stereo thing was strange. I think he is starting to change.

Believer, I am on Celexa now. You just reminded me to take one. I am very confused by his coming and going. It seemed that he tried so hard to satyed, but he was just so bored here. I am tired of that, we have no R talk now. It is just b/c I am so tired. I can sleep, w/o nightmare. Guess that is a good thing. I am taking care of myself, I can eat now, and gain couple pounds. I just want this whole thing over soon.

Is your WH depressed at all? One of the signs is not enjoying anything. Does he like his job?

I'm so glad you are taking something. You need to rest up for the big recovery struggle.

Have you hit him up for SF lately?

I think Wh is very much depressed and MLC too. He has no interest in anything except SF. But now he lost that too, there was no chance for me to induce him or he didn't let me to.

Buy a new outfit from Victoria's Secret, and walk around him in it. Might work. Since that was a big need for him before, it might be the way to get him to hang around.

Hey check out Baba's post on the EN board under MC,MB. That girl knows her stuff!

Well, he is very cold and distant to me. He even didn't want to look at me. I am too skinny and flat chest. I don't know how well the result of victoria secret on me. It may make him sick.

My you are down tonight. He loved you and married you. You are quite pretty and smart too. Winning combinations.

We have to get you feeling better and rested up. I just have the idea that something (good) is going on with your husband.

Believer, I am sorry. I should have said good night to you last night. Please forgive me. I was dizzy and having headache. Now just got up. My sleep was broken many pieces. I have to get the kids up and go to church.

WH is no where to be found again, but who cares. It makes no difference if he is here or not physically. It just disturb my mind and emotion.

Have a nice time at church. I will be there too. I will pray for you and all the others here.

Believer, thank you. I will pray for you too.

WH just called. He told me that some friend invited us to lunch, he was coming to pick us up at 12 noon. No discussion, just TOLD me. Should i go or just say no?

Go - and have a great time. I know this is nerve racking, but I think WH is coming around.

Ok, I told him to pick us up in the church. I hope GOD's light will shine on him.

I don't think he is coming around. He just want his cake eaten, want to have a family and has onw "freedom". This will lead him to plan B soon.

And that is fine if you end up in Plan B. It will be okay. You have done a great Plan A.

I do see changes in your husband. He is doing different things. I am very hopeful.

She said yeh, you told me you are going to change yourself, but it is not good. you got to be yourself.

Just HOW smart ~is~ your kid !! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Reassure her... your changes are still going to be you ...

"I did not explain all of my plans to you....

Let me reassure you, I am not changing myself to make someone else happy.... or to try and be someone I am not...

no

I am changing myself to become the best person I possibly can. I am becoming the best ME ....

Adults need to grow and learn, just like kids.

You will grow and learn about being the best YOU possible ... all of your life, not just when you are a child."

Pep

LNH,

Did you end up going to lunch with your H? If so, how did it go?

I'm glad you're feeling well enough to eat a little and that you're sleeping better. You need to get physically healthy and then I think that will have an impact on your emotional health.

You are starting to get stronger. I can tell in your posts. It will get better.

How is your daughter doing? When does she see her counselor again? Do you think things are settled with her not bringing up the idea of D again, or are you going to switch counselors?

As for your Victoria's Secret issue, being really "lacking" in certain areas myself, I do know the frustration of not being able to find lingerie that fits from there. My WH was never into that so it didn't matter to him. I just wanted it for myself. Most of their sexy stuff has cups in the top which obviously doesn't work for me, but I do have a very pretty long gown I got from there a few years ago that has draped fabric sort of a like a swag neckline a slit up one side almost to my waist. It's very nice.

Too bad my H fell asleep before I came out of the bathroom the night I initially wore it for him and I took it off and hung it up and have only worn it a couple times since, just to sleep in. Now there's no one to wear it for except myself. (And frankly I find my dalmation boxers and little gray t-shirt more comfy at this point.)

I'll try and catch up on reading on here tomorrow. I haven't been on here much this weekend with being gone so have just done the "quickie" scan of posts, and I'm leaving for Florida with the kids Tuesday afternoon for a week's vacation. I'll miss all of you, but hopefully will stay busy enough to keep my mind off things.

LL

Thanks friends for posting on me. Was just busy these couple days. But i am still around. It is good to be busy. I have few more minutes to class now. I will update myself when coming back.

Pepper, thank you for your compliment for my D. She is smart, but I hope that she can use her wisdom in the right way.

Well, I went to lunch yesterday. WH came to church picked up us when the service was still going. He didn't come in the church, just called me from the parking lot. But I didn't answer his call, the ring was off anyway. A long time friend with his wife was visiting from CA. So we went to lunch with them and another family. We all went to the same college in the 80's in MI for our graduate degrees, I and other two guys were in the same U in China. So it is long history. The 3 families went to Yellowstone Park in 2001.

When we saw the couple, WH said to his wife, you are very sexy, and some other things he thought he was humourous and joking. She said you could have said you look nice. I felt very embarassed as before, but I didn't say anything. Before, I would tell him stop it. I guessed that was not the right way either. I don't know what is the appropriate way to deal with this. That was one of the problem between us too. Then after lunch, we tried to take pictures for 3 couples. The other H's were putting their arms around their W's, but Wh didn't. They asked why not, he just refused. I didn't care. Anyway, I don't know how long this M can last.

Besides these incidence, we basically had good time. We went to a park along the river for long walk and relax. It was so hot and humit, everyone got a headache from it. The friend left for home after that. We went home tired, S complained headache.

After dinner, I had to meet a client for mortgage. An elder's W from church called me and I talked to her before coming home. We prayed which made me feel better. But when I arrived home at about 10pm, S was crying so hard b/c of his headache. Wh was glued to the couch to watch the basketball game, totally ignored S. I was really angry with him. So I went to calm S down and fell asleep with him. When I woke up it was already 11:30. Wh told me a high school friend called me from China, I was too exsuhsted to call her back and went to bed.

But at 2am, I heard some one told me, S was crying again. I walked to his room half asleep wondering who was the person who told me that. When I got to S, trying to calm him down, about 10 min, then realized that was WH. I felt so strange that I even didn't know who he was. It took me more than 30 min to put S to sleep, his headache woke him up, but he refused to take any tylenol. I ended up sleeping with him in his bed.

This morning, I woke up at about 8am. Then I had to get the kids up for VBS. S was attending classes, D and I were helpers. We did have good time for half of a day. After that I took D for her orthodontics appointment. We didn't get home till 2:30pm. I took a long nap before coming to work.

It is good to be busy. I felt numb about WH now. I have a mixed feeling about him. One way I don't want to D, but I don't want to have the same H. The way he behaved yesterday seemed that the old H coming back a little, but it was not the part I like. last time my mom saw him, she said he changed, b/c he was not that blabbling. It was b/c of his A. But now that part is back, I don't like it. What should I do?

LNH,

Not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but if you're starting to feel numb, that's how I felt at the beginning of feeling better.

I still have days where I think the same thing you do, "Maybe I do want H back, but not in his current state."

Are your son's headaches related to his nosebleeds? Does he have sinus problems? I know his health issues and your daughter's behavior issues have to be weighing heavily on you as you deal with things with your WH.

But on the other hand, maybe God is allowing some of it to be this way because it keeps you focused on other things besides your WH? I don't want to try and guess what God is up to. I just try and trust.

I will miss posting to you while I'm in Florida. If I can find web access at Disney World, I may check in once or twice. I was thinking there are some computers at Innoventions in Epcot that we used to get to websites once.

Take care!! You'll be in my thoughts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LL

LL, hope you will have good time in FL.

Not much things dramatically happened. Cousin called me yesterday, but I was too tired to call her back. I will sometime.

Yesterday, I received the credit card bill showing charges from MB. WH asked me how come they still cahrged after the seminar? He forgot that he had talked to SH. I told him that was the conseling session fee. He said, are you still talking to him? I said yes. He mumbled, it doesn't help. I don't know what he meant. Then after the kids went to bed, we watched Mystic River together. It is a sad movie. We didn't say mouch to each other.

Then we trid to have SF. But he couldn't finish. It never happened like that before. He was always strong and always wanted. Now it seemed that he needs Viagra. Is that one of the normal behavior of WH?

Probably is something to do with guilt. Or he might just be tired. But at least he gave it a shot.

Have you been giving him lots of admiration - like telling him how much you appreciate the work he did on the sound system in your bedroom?

Believer, I forgot to tell him the DVD system. Actually I didn't like it. Kids always watched movie at my room. But I should show him my appreciation.

It just seems to me that he was trying to do something. I would rent a DVD and watch it in room, and then tell him how much you enjoyed it. Or invite him to join you.

Your WH is doing some things. Many WS's don't. Who knows what it means, but I would be sure to let him know that I noticed them.

What do I tell him? I think that he is thinking to move out.

Yesterday, I noticed that he sat by us reading news paper. Then he filled out a suvey. At the end it was asking for the marital status. He shook his head and sighed, finally filled in the box M. I didn't say anything. But I should have participated him.

Believer, I am going home now. Talk to you later.

You have been saying your WH is going to move out for a long time. He is still with you.

Also, although he does not say wonderful things about you, he does not say hateful things.

He still comes home, still helps with things, still cooks.

So I still have lots of hope for your marriage.

The moment I walked in the house, WH zoomed out. He said I am going to the bar to watched the game. I asked him that whehter he will come home and be careful if Piston wins. he said no, I am going to co-worker's house to watch, I will stay there. Hm????

Believer, I feel very numb, I want this to end soon, one way or another. I can't deal with this anymore.

Lostnhurt,
I have reached a state of calm, and I hope that you get there soon too. Last night, my H said that he is depressed. He wants to play golf, he wants to watch football on TV, and he wants to run. He can't enjoy life if he is married to me.

I told him, very sincerely, that that is a valid conclusion to reach. If he can't be happy married to me, then I want him to divorce. Everyone would be better off.

I am almost thankful for the affair right now. Had it not occurred, I would have held to my commitment to M "no matter what" and he would have been a H in name only -- gone so much that the kids don't even notice when he isn't here and nasty to me in ways that are very hurtful and degrading.

Lostnhurt, I suspect you may have endured terrible mistreatment and disregard for the sake of a Christian commitment to do God's will, to honor your M vows, and now you see that your H's affair was part of a pattern of disregard, including running off to do what he pleases.

This is a silly analogy, but I always thought that people who cheat on expense statements eventually get caught because they don't know how much is cheating a little. They want more and more. A selfish guy who uses his wife's religious commitment to M will eventually expose himself as no H at all -- and then it is up to the W to define the conditions she will accept for creating a M.

I am feeling much better. At this point, I'll know I'll be OK no matter what he decides. I have a life to lead. Before the A even started, I remember telling Tom, "My life is not dependent on what Sophia does." It occurred to me at the time that maybe my life shouldn't be dependent on what Tom does. I now know that is true.

I am with you in thought and prayer.
Cherished

Cherished, thank you for the prayer. I am almost to the calm stage now. Now matter what he wants, I will be ok. Even though, occasionally, I still have down days.

I am in the fork road now, plan A or B, I have to choose. I just got an e-mail from the pastor I was working with. He adviced me to go an extra mile. But I will see him next week, and pray together. Hopefully to get an answer from GOD.

Lostnhurt,
Plan B is "going the extra mile." You aren't giving up on him. You are going the "extra mile", removing yourself from him so that he has time and space to consider how his treatment of you is not what the Bible counsels where it says that a man should love his wife like Christ loves the Church.

Cherished

I know, that is why I want to meet the Pastor and explain it to him. Then we will pray to see what it is.

hey lost, just got caught up on your thread. i've been out of the office the past couple of days and most of today. but i will be in the office tomorrow and will type more then. know that you are still in my prayers and that God is good and will continue to bless you through all this. gotta go, prayers to you, RR

RR, looking forward to hearing your good news tomorrow. I will be busy again tomorrow, helping the VBS in church. Then will take DD to conselor, this will be the last time to see her, I am switch to a different one. DD was helping in the church too, she is happier. Today she face painted for little kids. I can see how much joy in giving.

I just offered the kids to the bookstore for D's favorite authors's autograph, but they declined it. They rather stayed home like me. I guess we are ok with threes company.

This afternoon, WH's Dr. called(this Dr. was our school mate in college too). he told me that Wh's level function is really bad b/c taking Zocor and tell him not to take it anymore. I called WH, but he didn't answer my call. Well, it is his own business.

I had another conversation with D's conselor. She told me that she put D into a group seddion with the kids going though parents seperation or dicorcing. I was not happy at all, at her and Wh. Wh didn't tell me what was going on. I asked her again, did Wh tell you that we are seperated or DVing? She said no, but it seemed that his mind is all set. I told her that I will pull D out of that group and not seeing her anymore. But tomorrow is the last session. D said she doesn't like her wither.

lostnhurt -

A support group with kids her own age may be the best thing for your daughter. Sometimes kids can talk to other kids, and give each other help, much more than parents can.

I am worried about your WH's physical tests. Zocor is good, but sometimes causes liver problems. Is that what the doctor said?

Believer, I don't feel comfortable putting DD into that group b/c all the parents are DVing. That is why she asked me when I am going to D.

WH's liver problem was causing by Zocor. But he didn't answer my call, let him worry about his won problem. I sound very cold hearted right. I am hurt so badly and left alone home, he is somewhere having fun. What can I do?

Lostnhurt,
When I was going through the worst of it, before the A was exposed, I kept telling myself that someday I will have a different perspective on all of this, like going through a tunnel before you see the end of it.

I may not be all the way through the tunnel, but I do have a different perspective. Oddly, I look back and see God's providential care for me in how this occurred -- like the footprints story.

Your H will either be truly remorseful and change or he will not change and you will be faced with the decision to end what is a marriage in name only.

It is frightening to see abusive behavior in our 8 year old son. For his sake and the sake of our three daughters, whom I do not want to marry men who treat them like their father treated their mother, I will not allow a bad marriage to continue. It has been a struggle to let go of the commitment to marriage no matter what.
Cherished

hey lost, hope you are doing okay today. i updated my thread but also emailed you too. sounds like you are getting in the right mindset for plan B or plan "lostnhurt" and Amen to that.

as far as the test results and the medication he is taking? well speaking from a nurse's point of view, it's relative of what to make of it. has he been taking it very long? is this the first time his labwork has been checked since he started the medication? is he on a low dose? has he been taking it like he should? is he taking other medications? is he drinking a lot which can affect the liver? is he watching what he eats? is he exercising? there's a lot of things that can be asked when you have those kind of test results. bottom line though, you can't control him as you well know. you called him and he didn't answer. next time you see him (whenever that is) just tell him. then the ownership of the problem is on him.

enough about that. so now, did i read correctly that you will be meeting and talking w/your pastor from canada soon? are you going there or is he coming to MI? as far as the kids? again, i'm probably not the best to advise on that but please go to family.org if you haven't already. it is the webiste for Dr. Dobson's focus on the family ministry. there is a lot of stuff there for everyone but for your particular problems w/your kids there are a lot of resources there. there are activities, programs (like the last chance detectives and Focus radio theatre), magazines, etc. for kids and for you to help your kids. there is also a resource section for the website that has so many things that you can get to help you like books and CD's. for instance there is Parenting w/love which deals w/the belief that success is having those closest to you love and respect you, there is also an item on strong-willed children.

we just have to tighten up the armor that God has provided us w/during these trying times and how he is w/us always carrying us through one stop to the next. i personally would not take your daughter back to that counselor or the group that she put her in. i agree w/cherised that kids could benefit greatly from being amongst peers in similar situations HOWEVER, this was done unbeknowngst to you and w/out your consent and this particular group has a different objective then the one you are trying to achieve. on the family.org website is a frequently asked question section and one of the questions is if they "can recommend a Christian counselor in my area?" so please check it out and fill out the referral request form and it just might be what you are looking for.

i'm wishing you the best on this rough road and that we just have to stay the course and do what we can for as long as we can. you're going in the right direction, you have come such a long way in your posts. i bet if we took a poll almost everybody would agree to that. God has a plan and direction for your life as well as your family. it's a slow agonizing chipping away process remember but we can do it. prayers and God Bless, RR

RR, Got your e-mail and read it. Only had 3 minutes to post, but a lot to say.

Took D to her conselor, she threaten to report me if I don't take her to a pychiatrist. She thought D is suicidal. But I have a different view point. But anyway, I couldn't get an appointment till July 8(my Anniversary day). She said that if I don't get her in next week, she will report. I really regret taking D to see her. What kind of trouble I am in besides this stupid M.

I am having bad headache now. I will write you an e-mail after class.

i'm going to be leaving shortly but from what you have just said about the counselor it sounds like she is trying to manipulate the situation because of what you told her. in other words, i don't remember you saying that the counselor has really been talking to you about your daughter's suicidal ideation, etc. it was as if it was only brought up once you decided not to bring the daughter back to her.

how often was your daughter seeing this counselor?

i don't think anything will come of her reporting you but i know just something added to your list. (chin up). if it were me, i would see if i could get your daughter in w/another counselor. like i said check out the Christian Counselor referral system from focus on the family, you can call or do the form online. i think calling them might be better and faster. you can explain the situation. that way if this "psychotic" counselor "reports" you then you can show that you agree that your daughter needs to be in couseling, etc. and that you have her scheduled for an appt on such and such date.

get your pastor involved too. this counselor will need to substantiate that she has made it known to you that your daughter's condition is serious before now. again, it just seems like now that you don't want your DD to see her anymore that she is telling you she is suicidal. there's a lot that goes into being suicidal. i would think the more accurate term in your DD's case is depression. i mean, good grief, would your DD even know how to commit suicide? i doubt it. there's a big difference in thinking that you want to die to make things feel better and actually planning it. also you have to have the means to do it, and if this has been a pattern of thinking in your DD then your counselor would need to prove that. hope she doesn't "doctor" her notes.

many prayers to you LH, but you can do it, you are capable of more than you ever dreamed, imagine how you would have handled this situation 7 months ago, probably not very well. tell you DD that they are many people praying for her too. on another note, animals can be very therapeutic. Pet therapy is a documented and well studied form of reaching out to those who don't want to be reached and having a pet like a dog or a cat could help you DD a lot and in turn help you. for my psych rotation in nursing school i chose pet therapy as my project, I got an A.

i probably won't be able to email again until saturday if i come into work or monday. but know i'm praying for you as well as everyone else here. your sister in Christ, RR

Believer, are you out there?

lostnhurt - Yep, still here.

I feel that I lost orientation, don't know where I am going now. I don't love him, but one the other hand, I want this M to work. I feel that I have no desire to anything, including saving this M. I hope I can find a place that I don't know anyone, and anyone is nice, but has no feeling.

lostnhurt - This too will pass. Did WH find out about liver function tests?

Yes. I left him a message, he didn't call me back, but he call the Dr.

We only talked about 3 sentences this evening. My head hurts too much, I went to bed, then my sister called from China(not the one in US). I got up to talk to her, now I couldn't sleep. The 3 sentences were:

Me: Did you get my message?
WH: I called Dr.
Me: Why didn't you returned my call?
WH: Your H's liver is damaged.
Me: Are you Ok?
Me: Well, the worst is that I die.

Well hang in there. Your anti-D's should kick in soon. I hope that your WH will go see the doctor and stop the meds. This may be his wakeup call.

I don't know if he will wake up or not. He is like your Wh, becoming a big fat toad now.

Good night, Believer. Hope you have a sweet dream.

Does anyone know how to end the emptyness, lonelyness and hopelessness feeling?

I trid so hard to go out. Just went to VBS, then went out to lunch with bunch of people. Now back to home, all those feeling is pouring back to me.

There will be a father's picnic in our church. I asked WH whehter he wants to go, he said I don't have obligation to go. I said I just asked. If I go, there will be no father. If I don't go, I will be left alone if WH zoom off. I hate this life.

Hmmm. Can you make other plans for fathers' Day? Maybe you and the kids can go out and do something new.

I don't know how to make the kids happy for the Father's day without their father. I will see my father either tomorrow or Sunday, depending how things are going.

My kids were raised without their father, so I never got too excited about father's day. I would still plan something.

Have them make cards for him. Then if he does his now famous disappearing act, have alternate plans.

Believer, I feel that I am exauhsting every activity just to keep boat not sinking. It is extremely tiring. I have to entertain the kids for 2 months without school. S just told me that it seems time goes much slower without school. But he also told me that he doesn't miss school. Believer, you are strong. You raised two kids by yourself. Can i do that?

Well, did a lot of driving today. Went to VBS, sent and picked up S and D to different friends houses. I guess that will be what i am doing for the rest of the summer. S just asked me whether there is VBS tomorrow. It is so much fun. After dinner, we are going to church again for the closing.

I finally got D an emergency appointment with a phychiast. She will be seen tomorrow 5pm, but in a far away place. We finally get off with the other conselor.

I took care of my kids from the time they were 3 and 2 months until they were 13 and 10. It was not easy, but I decided we were going to have a great family life, and we did.

I do think your WH will be back, but in the meantime it would be nice to have lots of fun activities.

Believer, you are so nice to replying for everyone. You really have a good heart.

We didn't go to church b/c D didn't want to. I don't want to leave her home alone. How I wish WH is home and we all go to church togehter. I prayed and asked for prayer for him today in the church. How do you know he will be back?

So we had a long dinner. We had crawfish which kids like. D made chilli yesterday and they finished them tonight. Now we are watching the movie Big Fish. I did try to have a life without WH. I just feel that we are not physically active enough. I am so tired all the time.

lostnhurt -

I feel like your WH will be back, because you are too pretty, too sweet, too smart, and too wonderful a wife and mother for him to leave you.

He still has not left. Hmmmmmm. What's up with that? At some level, he knows he would be making a big mistake.

You need to move forward, and do things with your kids. Since I was the only parent for my boys, I got busy. I learned to fish and took them with me. Now they love fishing, and go constantly, and always want me to come with them.

I took them camping by myself. It was hard, but they loved it. There are all kinds of things you can do with your kids - do them.

Thank you Believer. But in his eyes, I am ugly, bad, sexless, and worthless.

I will take the kids to do things if he is not around. But when he is around, I ask him to go but he refuses, do I still go without him? I feel like I know nothing now, not confident. Everything I do, I am afraid that something may bot be right.

Yep, your self-esteem is low. Go places without your WH. Go with your kids. Just make yourself do it.

I know that. My sis kept asking me what do I need my WH for. I even don't know how to answer. I don't want to talk to anybody, don't want to see anybody. I have to get out of this.

Lostnhurt,
The affair exposed what was present long before -- a pattern of inconsiderate and thoughtless behavior. You aren't getting "out of this" by removing yourself and your children. You are protecting them and you by giving him the opportunity to choose to be with you as a husband and father OR NOT -- his choice.

This isn't your choice. He is the one who must choose to love you as Christ loved the Church OR NOT.

At present, his choice is NOT. Your choice is what to do about that choice. Removing yourself is protection for you and time for him to think about the consequences of his choice.

My IC once said, "People do what works for them." He is doing what works for him -- coming and going as he pleases, doing what he sees fit without regard for the impact on you or the children.

Cherished

Cherished, I got what you said. Plan B is very soon. It may be next week when I am done with my teaching.

I am in my office now, the kids are home alone sleeping. He said he would come home for them, but nowhere to be found. He doesn'e take my call. I hate him.

Lostnhurt,
Don't hate him. He isn't doing what he is doing to hurt you. He doesn't hate you. He's just immature. He never learned that the greatest joy is in sharing happiness. He wants everything his way, and his definition of care is that you support him in everything he wants to do. You are controlling if you place any restrictions on him.

There's a reason why you stayed in this M so long, and it is your Christian commitment to M no matter what. You tolerated disregard.

My H is really struggling, and I am beginning to understand that what our priest said was very true. We have "interlocking problems."

My H has continued to use the line that it is my fault that we aren't progessing because I won't forgive him for one mistake. No, no, no. This isn't about the past. This is about his view of M and the view that I had that allowed it to continue.

If you do go to Plan B, and go dark, please let us know about it. I care about you. You seem to have such a similar situation to mine, only you have handled yourself far better than I. I made the mistake of thinking I could change him. He has to make that decision for himself.

Good luck --
Cherished

lostnhurt -

Have you decided what you are going to do this weekend?

I was angry and Lbed. During the break of my class, I called home. D said that they were home alone. It was already 10:30am. I got so angry that I called him again. He said what? I said where are you? He said I am at work(definitely not)? I said in an angry tone: How are about the kids. He hung up. I was just so mad and couldn't stop crying. I feel so bad for my kids. That moment I want to kick him out NOW. Then I called his cousin and told her everything. She calmed me down and offer to go to the house to take a look at the kids. I apprecited so much. But I told her to hols on a little bit, just keep calling them for every 20 minutes. Finally she called me back at 11:30 and told me that WH was home.

Cherished, I know that I can not hate him, I have to ask GOD to help me with that part. But I do, I really do now. SInce the A broke, I never hated him, but now I do for what he did to the children.

Believer, I don't have a definite Plan yet. I may just take the kids to see my dad.

Hi, Believer, I think that you are still on line. I tried to call you. Just want to talk to you. I felt so angry and sad today.

I am driving home now. Don't waorry about me. I will be ok. You don't need to get off line. I don't know how to pick up the phone while driving anyway. Wish you a happy Saturday and happy cleaning.

lostnhurt -

I tried to call you back, no answer. I guess you were still driving home. Isn't it funny how we women don't get as mad when we are hurt, but get furious when someone hurts our children? Try not to LB too much.

Believer, I saw couple calls with no ID. I called around to ask who called me, but your line was busy. THank you for calling. I was Ok.

Sat I took D for the pgychaist evalution. It was a far away place I've never been to wiht all crooked roads. I got lost in the middle. By the time we were done and home, it was 8:30pm. I was so tired that I was shaking.

WWH promised to take her before. But we had a fight after I came home from school. He told me to take her. He tols me he will be moving out in July. I said fine, it is your choice. He said that you said so, ok. I said that don't put the responisbility on me, it is you to choose to leave, I just can not tied you up. It was an intensive fight.

On the way home, he called to ask us when to came back and a friend called to see firework. D picked up the phone. When we came home, he cooked dinner and waited for us. I felt a little bit better. Then he said I should stay home to take a rest, he would take the kids to see firework. I agreed(I knew that he just didn't want me to go), I was too tired. But S wanted me to go, he was just dragging me. I went with them. It was good. THe temp was low in the 50's. It took a long time to get out b/c so many cars. We arrived home 12:30am, all of us fell asleep. I couldn't do it by myself.

Then Sunday, we went to church. We gave him a electric razor for Father's day. WH refused to go with us or the picnic. I asked what he wanted to so. He said nothing. I told him I am going to my father's, willl he go. He said yes. So we ended up going to father's for dinner.

D was admitted to a 4 day intensive outpatient program. I have to go now.

My D is only two years younger, and my heart really goes out to you in seeing her in such a state, esp. since it may have been caused by your marital problems.

My IC once said something very comforting to me: "Let him have his excuses." If he wants to blame you for the end of the M, let him.

I realized a long time ago that what Harley really does is end bad marriages. It takes both husband and wife to create a good marriage. If one won't participate, the one who wants a good marriage will probably divorce because they see what a good marriage is.

Don't settle for such disregard, whether or not he is still having an affair.
Cherished

lostnhurt - That is very good news about your daughter. She needs to get some help. Let us know how it goes.

I doubt that your WH will move out. We will see. So far it is all talk, and no action.

hey lost, back in the office this week so i have computer access and i just got caught up on your posts. so what is this intensive 4 day outpatient program that your DD got admitted to? tell us more about it when you get a chance.

you hang in there, you are doing what you can in this awful situation. God knows that and we know that, hopefully someday your kids and WH will know that too. our feelings are very confusing, i'm kind of doing some spiraling in my feeling myself, we all do. but keep going to the one that can take away all your hurts, God.

when will you be calling your pastor friend? soon i hope. sending a cyber hug your way {{{{{{{{{{lost}}}}}}}}}}} prayers to you, RR

signing off for today and hope that you are okay and know that we are all here pulling for you, prayers to you, your sister in Christ, RR

Oh, finally got a chance to come in. It is been a long hard day. We left about 7:45am, Wh sent S to another VBS.

The program D was admitted to was called Face to Face crisis intervention program. She will be tested by physcolosits, phychiatrist, and therappist. It is a 5 day program, sorry for the typo, it was a hurry this morning. But when I got there, we were told that it may take 5-10 days depending how it goes. So we were interviewed for an hour, then D went to her program. The therapist, like Sat, the Dr., asked waht was going on between me and WH. I said that I don't want to talk about it infront of D, they were very understanable. They talked to me seperately and told me they respect my wish not letting D knowing the detail. Not like the other counselor, just assuming we are DVing. But anyway, she was terrible. when I got home, D's pedetrician called, she said the other counselor called her and scared her. The couselor just made it sound so terrible that she threatened to lock up D. But after talking to the phychaitrist(who is the executive director of the center), he said he didn't think it is that bad. But there maybe a lot of emotion to let out. This center is called the Child and Adlecent and Family center. One of day, WH has to come in too.

So the program was supposed to end at 3pm, I can pick her up and then leave for work. But I was told that today, the phychiastrist need to see her after the program. I would not have enough time to pick her up. So when I went home, I called WH and asked him whether he could do it. He said ok. Then I had to think of a place to put S, he was picked up at 12pm. And his cousin offered to take him. It was a relief.

After lunch, I was so exuahsted. But still had some calls coming in about mortgage. I took care a purchase, dealt with the realtor. Finally took a nap. Till almost 3pm, WH called. I didn't pick up the phone b/c I was too tired and I wanted him to know what it is like not answering the phone. He kept calling home and cell phone. but I made a big mistake. He was asking me when he needed to go to pick up D. I finally called him back and asked him where he was, he said in the office. I said what? He said, you told me that it is going to be 4 or 4:30pm. I immediately appologized for my miscommunication. I said that she was out of the program, but need to be seen by the Dr., and parent must be there. I said you've better go now. He said I have a lot to do here, but I will go now. Then the center called, and D called, when are you coming to pick her? I told them that Wh was on the way. Then Wh called again, he was lost. I had to direct him from the map. Then my cell phone rang, the client called. It was a caos. Finally, he said he found the way, I left immediately to drop S off to cousin's and went to work.

This is the last week of the summer I, lots of work to do. Some students asked for different time to take the final. I had to prepare the final, grade the last tests. Summer programs are always a big rush. But I like to be busy like this so my mind will not focus on WH. Next week I will be totally off, then WH will be totally off too. We will see. If that is the case, Plan B.

The reason I was so tired was that I didn't sleep well last night. My neck was really stiff and my back hurt. I woke up at midnight to get a hot pad to reduce the pain. The pain was so tense that I couldn't sleep. Well, WH usually would help me to get the stuff and pad me to sleep, now he is in the other end of the house, or he even may not be home. I had to do it myself. My neck is still hurting.

lostnhurt - I am so happy that your daughter is getting the help she needs. It is too hard for us parents to help our kids. So she is in good hands. That will give you some peace of mind.

Hope you are feeling better. I am doing well.

hoping you are well today and the program your daughter is in sounds very reputible. how did you hear of it? sounds like your D's former counselr was a nutcase herself and shouldn't be in the counseling field.

i pretty much didn't get any work done yesterday w/catching up on the forums and emails so i better get some done today. prayers to you, RR

Well, just come back from dropping off D. It was a 2 hour round trip, I will have to go again this afternoon, then to work. What a long drive.

I learned about the center by calling the insurance company. They gave me some name that are close by, none of them dealt with kids, then I got more names and further away, and finally got this one.

Yesterday when I wnet home, only S was home alone, WH's car was not in the garage. I didn't know what happened. I was so scared. There was a news few days agao about a 12 year old girl was kidnapped and killed in the area when she was home alone with her little brother. The news sadi that mom was out social, I assumed that dad was out of the picture. THis morning another news that aman was killed at 7am, just 2 miles down on the road. THis is supposed to be a good area, I don't know what is wrong.

anyway, I asked S where are sis and dad. He told me that they were in neighbor's house (2 houses away) for a meeting. WH is the treasure of the community assciation, I guess they had the annual meeting, it was raining very hard. Finally he came back. I asked him how was the session seeing the Dr. He said no use, those people just wanted to take D in for money. That is how he view all the counseling sessions, MBW, and D's sessions. I felt so hopeless. This man just think he is god.

Well of course he thinks they are after money. He doesn't think anything is wrong with your D. He also doesn't want to admit how his unreliability is hurting his family. He's all fogged out.

Teach your S not to play with matches, or fire. Tell him to always lock the doors and windows when he is home alone. And tell him not to answer the door, no matter who it is. That should keep him safe.

Also in California, we have a sheriff's website that has a map of all the serious sex offenders in the area. See if there is one for your area.

Believer, the children were instructed about safety many times, in school, visiting Police dept., and by myself too. I hope that they know what to do and not do.

WH doesn't consider we are family anymore. He wants his freedom. Pretty soon he will have it.

How are you doing? Any news? I miss talking to you.

RR, are you busy catching up your work now. I hope you have time to relax. I need to sleep so much lately, I am just easily tired. I hope everything is over soon so I can relax.

lostnhurt - That is good the kids know what to do. Another thing you can let them know is the "bottom line" theory. That is, you decide ahead of time, what you will do if someone threatens you or grabs you. If they have a gun, your response must be "kill me right here".
You don't want to go anywhere with a person with a gun. Did I explain it right?

I am home today with a bad cold. I feel miserable, but am getting some stuff done. Hope you can rest up and not get sick.

Believer, I am sorry that you feel miserable. Try one of my remedy:

4 slices of ginger root
2 tbsp brown sugar
2 cups of water
boils for 10 minutes

After drinking it, cover with 2 or 3 layer, let yourelf sweat. Then you will feel better after a shower.

lostnhurt - Thanks for that recipe. I will try it.

How are things with you?

Believer,

I am here for my student's final. I will be done this week. Thursday I will go to see my Pastor in Windsor to pray for Plan B. I didn't let Wh know that I end my class one day early. Sat will be last meeting for another class. Next week I will be totally off. I am debating myself whether I initiate the Plan B or let him do it. I will talk to SH next week.

Today I spent 4 hours for driving D. Then came to work. I am ok physically, but emotionally, i am still weak. I just called this number to pray: 1-800-541-pray. I prayed for you too.

Oh thankyou, lostnhurt. I need prayer. But I am doing very well, except for the cold. I had the house painted, and Saturday, put in new toilet.

My sister and I are planning a trip together - to Europe. So my life is moving along, without WH.

Hang in there, Plan B might be the best bet for you.

Believer, that is great to go to Eroupe. Is your sis married? Will you go with your boys? When will it be?

Last time I went to Euroup was 10 years ago. Wh never had interest to go places. Every time I suggested to go somewhere, he said that he felt liked I was using him. I will have to make some plan to places with the kids. Any suggestion?

My sister and I are going alone. My boys are going to have to fend for themselves.

My sister was married, but soon got a D. She then went to Harvard and is now a lawyer. I am very proud of her. Now she is very busy and has no love interests. But, she does have a good life.

My sis has a daughter (my neice) who I dearly love. Her name is Libby. She is a good girl. I am sending all the family jewels to her (since I have 2 boys). So my grandma's rings, and my grandma on the other side's rings are going to her.

I can't leave the rings for my boys, as they would probably give them to their girlfriends.

Wow, I envy Libby. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I have no jewel at all. My parents didn't give me any, in-laws gave me a necklace, but it was broken. I can buy some if I need it. But I would rather have my H (if I have one) to buy them for me.

lostnhurt - Well I am so glad that I have lots of family jewels for my neice. My boys would probably give them to their girlfriends. So I am sending mine to my neice.

Believer, did you try the ginger water yet? How do you feel now? I wish we are closer so we can go out togehter or cook food together. I enjoy cooking, but need someone to enjoy the food. If Wh is not home, kids won't eat much. in fact, WH never said anything about my cooking. He said he didn't care, just finished everything I cooked.

lostnhurt - I am doing fine. How are you doing?

Believer, i am glad that you feel better.

I don't know how I feel now. I don't feel myself. I feel numb, it is better than painful and hurting.

hey lost, again i'm not getting much done at work so i'm going to have to make things short today. glad you are meeting the pastor from windsor and i'm sure it will help to talk to someone in person. let us know when your appointment is w/SH and what he says. still thinking of you often and send prayers to you, RR

It is another long day. This morning on the way home from dropping D, I got stucked before the railroad crossing for more than 30 min., the train just stopped there. I was late for the oild change appointment which took me another hour. Then I had to rush to pick up S. Now in few minutes, I have to go again, drop S to cousin's and go to meet with D's therapist and the Dr.

Last night, I told WH that we both have to meet with the Dr together with D. He said why can't you go alone? I said that Dr. request both of us to be there. He said just two of us? He probably think I was setting him up for counseling, what a paranoid guy. He was so reluctant and said I don't want to go, why don't you ask them again and call me tomorrow. I siad ok. Then I told him that D's couseling session is almost up(20 sessions per year), we may have to pay for later counseling. He siad you don't send her to. SHe is fine, you just make up all these things. I just didn't know what to say, all I was thinking was why did I M this idiot.

When I came home, D had her friend over playing. I told S to take a shower, but he was dragging and it took him about 30 min, still not in the bath room. So Wh took him in the tub and turned on the shower with his clothes on. S was creaming and said I want mommy. I came along, but I didn't resuce him as before(guess what I did before was not right). I just told him to obey dad and take a shower now. He said you are mean. I siad that I will talk to you after the shower.

When S was screaming, I was talking to D's old counselor on the phone, she kept calling me and seemed to try to make friend with me. Probably she felt guilty for what she did, and she said that you are a good mom, that was the only time she ever said since we saw her.

After S finished his shower, I told him to get the Bible and had him read Ephesian 6:1-4 to his dad and had him appologize to dad. Later S told me that dad didn't believe in GOD, it is no use. I told him that GOD knows what to do, you just have to do what GOD said.

After D's friend left, WH screamed at her and told her to clean up. He said look at this house, what a mess. THen he said that our neighbours house was so neat, look at this one. I siad what do you want? Why don't you tell me exactly or do it yourself. He then yelled at D, when you have your own house I hope it is not like this. Some of you already saw how my house looks like, he is just making a fuss out of it. That moment, I felt so bad, I wished he was not there.

Just not too long ago, an idea popped in my mind. I may just take the kids to TOronto for the entire summer, that will be how my Plan B start.

Girl...I am thinking about you. Head north, my friend. I will meet you in Toronto and we will have a great time! :-)

LNH,

I have finally had time to catch up on your thread over the last week. You really had a tough week, didn't you!

I truly understand some of your difficulties with your daughter's behavior and dealing with people who threaten to turn you in if you don't get her treatment. I didn't get that from a therapist. My DD's school principal and office manager turned her in to our state back in April, which prompted her overnight stay in the pscyh ward that my insurance has since denied (and for which I am now fighting an $1,800 bill! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) I had no choice. I had to do what the state said. Tried to tell my insurance company that. They don't care. Their "doctor" determined that the overnight inpatient stay wasn't necessary.

First, just from what you've written, your daughter's original therapist would quickly be written off my list. It's good that you got her in to someone else, and I'd have done the same out of fear. Having our Department of Human Services chasing me was NO FUN! All I could think of was, "what if the state takes my child away from me and puts her in foster care because they see my messed-up family situation and think they can provide better for her somewhere else?"

My DD also doesn't like therapy. She doesn't have to go again until July, but she says it does no good and I think with that attitude, it probably doesn't.

Just learn from what you read from my posts though and love her, but don't be too easy on her. I've let my DD get by with way too much and now I'm paying a dear price with her behavior.

She was pretty good in Florida, other than whining about missing her friends and going back to the hotel each evening and running down my cell phone, but the first night back (last night) she blew her curfew. Now I need to come up with consequences.

As for your WH, I may not be in the majority here, but I do think you would be much more at peace if he'd just move out. Granted, that has it's own problems. I'm not sure what my WH and I are doing anymore. We're just in limbo. But it's more peaceful than having them technically living a home but being hateful and angry and leaving all the time.

You are getting stronger. I can see a change in you from not thinking you can live without him to realizing that you can, just like it happened for me a couple months ago.

LL

I am physically and emtionally drained now. My eyes are red and wet, my boddy is shaking and I am ready to scream.

You all knew that I left at about 2pm this afternoon. I didn't get home till 8pm wiht hunger, anger and tireness.

I got to the center at about 3pm. WH not there yet, but the therapist was late too. We saw her at 4:15pm. In the waiting room, Wh started complaining and whining. He is tired, he is bored, he is angry. THen he told D, what did you get from here? Did you gain anything? You have better bahave so I don't have to drive this far, blah, blah. Then he said to me: why did you take her to see Jill(the old counselor)? It is you who start all these, why did you drag me in? I just didn't want to argue with him and said nothing.

Finally we got in with the therapist. She said that D is very depressed and something inside her she can not let out. Only she knows what, but as parents we need to communicate with her and help her. I agreed and told her my frustration. Then she helped and gave few suggestions. WH didn't say anything, just said that she had better behave. Then she asked whehter we have more to say, I siad to D that does she have anything to ask her dad. She said Dad, can you stay home more often? He started defend himself, didn'tI stay home enough? What do you mean? I coooked for you yesterday. Blah, blah, sounded like he was a perfect dad. But time was up.

After that, it was almost 6pm. We had to see the phychatrist. And waited again for another 30 min. D was complaining hungry, WH bought her chips. Kids like him better for buying things, I am very strick about that and I didn't want them to have the idea that money is easy.

In the Dr.'s office, he told us that D's test result was very good, she is extremely intelegent. All her scores(reading, comphresnsive, math, vocabulary etc) wer about 98 percentile. But her performance(don't understand the difference) was below average, which means that she is under a lot of stress. He was very straight and said D knew what was going on, dad had better tell. I told him the first time I met him. But WH refused. Dr. said I didn't mean the detail, let your D tell you what she thinks. Here is what D said: I think that dad did not love mom anymore. WHy? I think that he thought she is getting old and ugly. Dr. laughed and asked Wh: Is that true? Wh didn't answer directly, he said we all get old. Then the Dr. said to D that, your mom is not old and ugly, you are just too little. We will all get old, do you think your dad is old. Do you think it is ok for him to DV if he think your mom is old and he get someone younger? D said that I just want them to be happy, if they are happier after DV, it is ok with me. It may take me few weeks to get use to it. I said that is the idea she got from Jill and I didn't like. WH budged in and defended for Jill, all she was saying is to not let D feel the guilt and etc. Then we discussed about how D should be helped. Dr. let D out and talked to us alone.

Here goes:

Dr. How old are you(WH)?
WH: 18.
Dr. How old?
WH: 18
Dr. Did you mean you behave like an 18 year old?
WH: I am 42.
Dr. How old is your wife?
WH: She is 41.
Dr. Do you think she is too old and not pretty anymore?
WH: She is still the same person, just I don;t have the feeling for her. There is no chemical between us anymore.
Dr. Do you have a girl friend?
Wh: Well, wehn I was joking to find someone else, she always said go ahead. She sounded like no one would like me, she was the only one who would take me.
Dr. Do you have a grilfriend?
WH: Well, we don't love each other anymore.
Dr. Do you love him(asked me)?
Me: yes.
Dr. Is there any chance to reconcile?
WH: It is not necessary.
Me: I am not giving up.
Dr. I see. Can we help you?
Me: I am counceling with SH.
WH: We went to MB, but it is no use. Itis not necessary.
Dr. It will be very hard and painful on you(to me).
Me: I've been hurting since Dec.
Dr. You got to be strong.
Me: I know, I;ve been strong too.
(All the time I was crying)
Dr. You still have to come next Monday.
Wh: Why? It is so far.
Me: I will come.
Dr. You are the father. I invite you over. It is up to you whether you want to do it for your D.

Dr. hugged me. WH zoomed out and spinned off with no trace. D said did you cry? I said yes. She said why? I don't want to say.

Then I called cousin about picking up S. She took him out shopping. I met them in a store and came home with all the sadness. Even though WH said the same thing over and over since January, hearing him saying it again in fron tof Dr. and me hurt me ssoooooooooo much. I came home and locked myself up and cried, didn't eat dinner. D and S ate the left over from yesterday. I am so doooooomed.

When I said I am counsleing with SH. WH said I pasid for it. Dr: Doesn't she work? Doesn't she make money? WH couldn't say anything.

WH alway thought he was the one who raised the family. I am like nothing.

My heart broke one more time. Just told, atually yelled, to the kids after several attemps to let them go to bed. S asked: why are you so strick. D: she is not strick, she is stupid. That broke my heart.

Why do I deserve all these? I spent so much energy and time to take care of her. SHe thought I am stupid. WH thought I was using D to manipulate him. He even asked D how do you know I am not home? WHo told you that? Is that your mom? A 12 year old doesn't know her dad is not home? What kind of question is that?

I am angry, angrrrrrry. My head spins.

{{{{{{LNH}}}}}}} (hugs) {{{{{LNH}}}}}} (more hugs) {{{{{{{LNH}}}}}}} (even more hugs...)

I am so sorry to hear about the events in your counseling session. My WH and I had to do court-ordered counseling during his first A because he got a DWI and counseling was a part of it. It wasn't MC, but the therapist at one time asked him who he loved more, me or OW. He responded that he loved the OW more. Counselor told us we had a disfunctional M and basically told us we needed to D.

We held it together for 12 more years after that statement, and probably would have still been together had we have really gotten MC after his A ended instead of just pretending nothing happened.

My point--it's not necessarily over, even if he says it is.

Second, I know personally how much it hurts to have your child call you stupid. My DD does it to me fairly regularly. It's tremendously disrespectful, but you are NOT stupid and she knows it. She's just hurting and she's also at that age where she wants to be independent and not have to show that she needs you or her dad. Just keep loving her. She loves you and needs you very much right now, no matter how she acts.

And please know you are a very smart and very caring person!! You are not doing anything wrong. You are dealing with a difficult daughter and a very hurtful situation with your WH and then keeping up with your business and school and all on top of it. You are much stronger than you realize!

LL

LL, thank you for your kind words and the hugs. I need them so badly.

I have to go to bed now. TOmorrow there will be more driving. I even don't knwo how to handle S since WH disappeared again. I guess that I have to dropped D to herr session late.

Anoterh sleepless night. Wh's words and behavior really kiled me. I didn't want to take Xenax, b/c I will be sleepy when driving. Now I am dizzy, light headed. I hope that I am in Plan B already. Now I know how important it is. Plan B next week.

Lostnhurt,
I think the therapists recognize that your marital problems are behind your daughter's behavior.

Could you move to Toronto permanently -- start a new life there near family?
Cherished

I have read your thread and tried to catch up. Your topic line intrigues me "Soon to be in Plan B" and you started May 6, 2004 in which you came back from the MBW and they suggested you move to Plan B in a few weeks.

Fast forward to June 24, 2004...7 weeks later. I think it's time for Plan B.

dear lost, i'm conflicted about the yesterday's events for you. i say that because i think the psychiatrist you and your H talked to did a wonderful job. even though it hurt you to talk about those things, you H was being questioned by someone other than you. LL is right about what your DD is saying, we know that often when people say things it's because of the way they feel about themself. you and your family are going through something that you didn't know you would go through and therefore weren't prepared. how could you be?

you are doing the best that you can. when i first started coming here and reading your posts, many people said do this or that or maybe you should have done this differently, etc. i certainly do not see that now because you are doing a good job and you are not doing things out of anger or haste. you have a plan so just stick to it. talk to the pastor from windsor and talk to SH, then the next day you go to plan B.

i'm sorry i'm just now replying to your posts. i've been busy w/trying to catch up from last week, extra activities w/church this week, and getting ready for the move this weekend but God the most wonderful and perfect counselor of all is w/you each step of the way and things will get better. we all love and cherish you and continue to pray for you. God bless, RR

Just came back from dropping D, in few minutes, I have to go pick up S.

Yesterday, WH said he would come back and send S to camp. SO at 8:10am, when ready to leave, I till didn't see WH. I called him and no answer. I didn't know what to do, maybe just send S myself. He called back at 8:15 and said I have ameeting, you send S to the camp. I said why didn't you tell me earlier? Can't you send him? I said of course, but D will be late, all you need to do is to let me know ahead of time so I can prepare. He said sorry. I just hung up and rushed S to camp in an opposite direction. Then the car had no gas.

When we arrived the center, it was 9:45am. We were 45 min. late. But they were very understandable and thought was traffic problem. I siad it is not. I asked to talk to the therapist a lone. SHe was very nice to let me talk to her. I told her what happened after talking to her, what WH said to D, what D's reaction and how she called me stupid. What happened this morning. She said I undertand and appreciate you told me these things. I also show her my Plan B letter and told him that the seperation may occur next week or two. After she read the letter, she said that it maybe the best way now, it may wake him up by doing such. If he doesn't come back, you will shape up your life, you are too painful and stressful now. It sounds like she undertood the plan. SHe said you are strong for doing this. I just couldn't help crying, even now.

I asked her that after D's program, I want to go to TOronto for the summer, but how about her treatment? She said at least have one session, then she may continue when come back. I asked if it is possible to do phone consultation. I really thank GOD for finding this center, I wished I have found them 2 years ago.

After talking to her, she asked me whether I wanted to talk to the pyscologist about D's test results. I was delighted for this offer. Then the pyscologist saw me and said your D was very bright, I told your WH yesterday,and aksed him whehter you wanted to make appointment to talk to me, he said no, did he tell you? I said that I didn't know that, he doesn't care. She said it is very obvious, but you care.
She explain all those tests to me. She did extremely well academically. She said she sledom had kids have results like that. For performace, she was not as good as others, but still on the uppper end of average. She explain about what Performance is, it is activities, it counts time. D took time to do it, that is why she did not score as high as others. I siad that it is her style. When she was in nursery school, her teachers already told me that she was slow in everything, she only won the race in turtle crawling. But anyway, she said that D's very normal, but just has emotions inside. The recommendation is to see therapist.

I have to go now.

lostnhurt -

I am very encouraged that you are getting help for your daughter. And it is good that WH heard some input from the therapist, instead of just you.

Your daughter is a typical teenager. Her job right now is to start separating from you. And she complains to you because it is not safe for her to confront her father.

But part of her is watching mom. She is seeing that her mother is going out of her way to get help for daughter. She is seeing that her mother is trying to hold the family together. She is learning life-long lessons.

My oldest son was terrible in his teens. Now he is very good to me. So your daughter will change too. It is just very uncomfortable for you right now. Hang in there. You are sticking to the MB plan and doing a great job.

RR and Believer, Thank you for the encouragement.

Cherished, I can not move to Toronto. I won't have a job there. I am tenured in my position now. If I've know what would happen now last year, I could have applied for a sabatical leave which I get 90% of my pay.

SHM: I know that my Plan B action takes too long to execute. My last teaching will be Sat. I will be free and do it.

lostnhurt -

You might also get the book "How to Save Your Marriage Alone" by Ed Wheat from Amazon. It is just a little pamphlet, about $7.00, but is very inspirational.

Lostnhurt,
Even if you can't move permanently, going to Toronto for the summer may help you to gain some perspective. I'm glad that the end of school is so soon for you.

"Iron bars do not a prison make..."
Cherished

Just tried to take a nap, but my level of anxiety maybe too high. I couldn't sleep. I kep thinking that if I go to Toronto, who will take care of the house? Since in the Plan B letter I will tell WH do not come to the house. Should I modify it? Should I have him stay in the house or ask him to take care of the house?

I will have to go again to pick up D, then I will meet the pastor. I feel so tired and stressed. I am really afraid to get into accident.

Came back from talking to the Pastor in WIndsor. I told him what happened lately with WH and D. And explain abuot plan B and showed him the Plan B letter. He said it is the right thing to do now. Only GOD's salvation will help him to come back. Let him enjoy his "freedom", he is very empty inside, like a thirsty man drinking salt water. The more he drinks, the more thirsty he is. Eventually he will seek the living water from Christ.

Then I told him my plan to go to Toronto, he said thta is a good idea, so the children and I can be away from Wh's behavior. He said let him take care of the house and cut the lawn, just inform him to stay away when we come back. He asked me about financial, I said thta I am putting everything in GOD's hand. Even though I don't get a dime, we can survive. I have two jobs. He said that Wh's popping in and out is too destructive to the children and me.

Then we prayed together. We pray that WH's open his heart to GOD, we asked GOD to lead him home, but we also prayed that GOD do his will. I prayed for my MB friends.

So the next thng is to talk to SH. I haven't had time to make appointment yet. but I will tomorrow. Next week D has to go the the center one more time and she will be discharged. But she needs to be counseled at least one more time. S has a camp. I guessed the earliest time we will go will be June 3, leaving WH behind for the holiday, have him enjoy with OW. I will talk to brother about my plan. He will not come over for the holiday anyway.

Sounds like you got wonderful advice from your pastor in Windsor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LL

Lostnhurt,
I am glad that the pastor saw the wisdom of removing yourself from his destructive behavior.
Cherished

I am glad that D doesn't have to go the the center today. After driving for days for such long distance in those crooked roads, I am exhausted. I slept in today and didn't get up till 10am when my mom called. WH offered to take S to the camp and told me to sleep. That is his way to say sorry, he never appologize for anything.

Last night when I came home, dinner was on the table, but no one ate it. I was curious. WH was outside the yard, I didn't know and closed the garage door. When he came in, he said kids ate Subway subs already, I had them take shower too. I asked how about you? DId you eat? He said no, I was waiting for you. I just felt very strange, it didn't mean a thing to me. But I smiled and said thank you. I felt I am so fake now.

Mom asked me whether WH and I are ok now, since he went to see my father ;ast Sunday. I said that no such thing, it's been like this since January. But I need to talk to borhter about going to Toronto.

WE have a peach tree in the back yard fullwith little peaches and dropping all over the yard. Last night when I locked WH out in the yard, he came back and told me he was picking up peaches out there. He said, I picked almost 100 peaches altogehter. Don't you know that I was picking them up everyday? (a pause) when I was home. DUH!

oh too funny what you said about the peach tree!

so so so glad that you talked w/the pastor, that he validated your plan and supported you IN PERSON. i know we support you here and many prayers are being said for you but still to be able to talk to someone in person is still a great comfort. you are getting to that peace stage.

as far as what to do about the house while your gone. well.......my first thought would be that if you go to plan b then your H doesn't need to do anything about the house. don't you have a cousin and family near by that could check on the house once a week or every other week? i know it's relying on other people but it would just be temporary. if they were to just "check" on the house it really wouldn't take that long. just have to go through the rooms and make sure the windows or shut, water plants if necessary, and cut the grass. you can put your mail on hold or even have it forwarded.

you got a good head on your shoulders lost, and you will find yourself again, you have done a lot of that already. you will do what is needed. i do hope you have computer access in toronto, don't know what we would do w/out you for such a long time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> but then again, maybe you also need a break from here, it's just a thought.

much love and prayers to you. RR

That is GREAT news about your plans for Plan B. It will save your health. You sound like your body can't take much more.

I'm glad you are getting support there for Plan B. Many people don't understand what an important part of building a M this step takes. I'm here for you!!!

lostnhurt -

Do you have internet access in Toronto? If you don't, you cannot go. Sorry.

Thank you my friends. I am actually eager to go to Plan B now. I do have accese to internet in my brother's house. DOn't you remeber last time I went, I posted over there. The only time I didn't psot was when I was inthe cruise, I didn't want to pay $7/min to go on line.

Today we went to S's VBS camp closing, then went out shopping a little. We went ot Chinese buffet. S ate too much again, we had to walk a lot to make him feel better.

Now if we go to Toronto, D will not be able to get a dog. WH mentioned yesterday that someone had kittens giving away. He told D to get kittens before talking to me. He had D ask me whehter it is ok. I would prefer him to talk to me first, instead the loop going in the opposite direction.

D has 2 week long camp in Mid August, we have to be back by 8/10. I dont know what to do then. There are a lot of little details to work out. I need to discuss with SH. I don't know whether I should tell WH to move out to before going to Toronto, or go first, then give him the letter. Anyway, lots of things going on in my mind.

I am very tired now, I need to take a nap. Prayers for all of you.

lostnhurt - Check out the Toronto plan with SH. I don't know if that is the right thing to do or not.

I am cooking today. Making orange chicken. Yummy.

Yes, I will talk to SH Tuesday. I don't know what is right or wrong now. Something has to be done.

This is a long nap, it took me 2 hours. WH just called to tell me that he is not coming home tonight. He did not call for long time, just disappeared. But there is no difference anyway.

lostnhurt - Sorry you are going through all this. Please get your Plan B letter ready.

My letterr is ready. It has to be modified if I am going to Toronto. I sent a copy to SH already.

lostnhurt - Can you post it here?

It is the same thing as before, just few words different,

My Dearest husband,

It is with the heaviest of hearts that I write you this letter. I am deeply saddened by what has become of us, our friendship, and our marriage.

Most of fifteen years that we have been married were filled with an numerous hugs, smiles, tears, laughs and our two lovely children. I have been blessed from GOD by having you as my friend, lover, and husband.

I realize how my behavior caused you to believe that you were not my first priority. You are the true joy in my life and I am afraid I just wasn’t able to show you that in the way you needed to see it. I never intentionally meant to hurt you or make you unhappy. I am truly sorry for my part in bringing us to this point and I have been taking steps to learn how to be a better wife to you. When I married you, I vowed in front of GOD to be by your side for the rest of our lives. I am still deeply committed to you and improving our relationship.

The past few months have been the most difficult time of my life. The relationship that you are having outside of our marriage has broken my heart and is too painful for me to bear. My only saving grace is the thought of us being together and happy again some day. As a wife who loves you, I do not want to keep you here against your will.

Your act of disappearance without any consideration of our family hurts me very deeply now. When I see you or talk with you, knowing you will be gone in some unexpected time with whomever inflicts too much pain for me. To preserve the love I have for you, I must insist that we have no contact with each other. Our friend D and A has agreed to act as an intermediary. All communication with me needs to go through them by phone, or e-mail: . Please respect my decision, do not call me, email me, or come to the house. (the do not come to the house part may need to be changed)

I am not trying to keep the kids from you. Right now I ask you to take them every Tuesday and Thursday evening and Saturday whole day. (the visiting schedule may be revised too, this schedule will be good when we come back) We can make arrangements through D and A for any additional time you want to see them. They love their daddy and need to see you as often as possible. I only ask that D and S NOT HAVE ANY CONTACT with any woman in your relationship. They are still very young and impressionable. Let’s continue to protect them.

I am not doing this to punish you, only to protect the love that I have for you. When you are ready to recommit to us and has no contact with any other woman, then I will be happy to discuss rebuilding our family and marriage. I sincerely want us to be able to rebuild our love and commitment and create a new life together in which everything we do makes us both happy, so there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I love you with all my heart.

With all my love,

Sounds pretty good.

By the way. Do you have a recipe for orange chicken?

Believer, thank you. But I don't know the orange chicken. That is not authentic Chinese dish. Sorry.

Hmm. Well now I am going to make lemon chicken, because I have no oranges. I will let you know how it comes out.

[ June 25, 2004, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: believer ]

Believer, I am making chili. After that we are going to ride bike to rent a movie.

WH came home for few minutes. I asked him why. He said he came back to change and xoomed out again. Plan B him will let him change in OW's place.

Lostnhurt,
Remember that it is speculation whether he is continuing an affair, but -- affair or not -- he is not being considerate of you or the children by these disappearing acts, unwillingness to commit to going places or doing things, etc.

I think a change in scenery can help both you and your D very much.
Cherished

Few minutes before class.

Last night we rented the movie Johnny English. Sis called when we started. So I missed the first part. When I came back, the first thing I heard is : It is time for Plan B.

I was so trilled. Even movie told me to go to Plan B.

Lostnhurt,
I just want to tell you that I considered taking the kids away for a few days as part of my plan to file for legal separation in mid-October, 2003. I made an appointment with my H's anger management therapist to talk with him about how to safely end the marriage, and that was his recommendation.

I then spoke with the police in our town who told me that leaving could result in my being charged with child kidnapping. Even under the circumstances, with my having the support of his anger management therapist and my therapist to leave for a few days, they said I could get in legal hot water. I spoke with my lawyer as well who said that she thought such action could be defended; however, I should not leave the state.

I woke up this morning thinking that your taking the kids to Toronto without your husband's approval or knowledge beforehand could result in your being charged with child kidnapping. I don't know. Laws in your state are different for domestic violence -- I know that because my sister lives in California and her brother in law is a lawyer. However, with infidelity, there is no safety issue to justify leaving with the kids.

I hope this helps. If you do go to Toronto, maybe your husband should approve or you should consult a lawyer first and understand the legal ramifications.

Cherished

Thanks, Cherished. I may have to talk to him before going then. I will talk to SH next Tuesday.

lostnhurt - Hi. I made orange chicken and it was yummy. My rice steamer wouldn't work, so I made Mexican rice with it. The boys loved it, and it is almost all gone.

Please be sure to check out all the ramifications of your PlanB/Toronto. I would hate to see you in jail, don't know if they have the internet there. Although you might get the rest you need.

Actually Wh hinted many times for us to go to Toronto, he wanted us to go away. Last week he said he will send us to the train station. I didn't say anything. But Now I am thinking to use it as part of Plan B. Or just agree with him and spend time over there. But I would talk to SH first.

I would get his agreement first and let him know you are going to do a Plan B.

let him know you are going to do a Plan B.
No. Do not “let him know” you are going to Plan B.
It is not an agreement, it is not a threat.
It is a sole decision of the betrayed spouse and the ws does not need to know you are going to do it.

But yes, definitely speak with Harley before you do it.

Chris - lostnhurts WH has been through the MB weekend, so he knows about Plan B. How can she take the children out of state (actually out of country) without letting him know something?

I know you are an expert - Can you give her some ideas?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lostnhurt:
 Actually Wh hinted many times for us to go to Toronto, he wanted us to go away. Last week he said he will send us to the train station. I didn't say anything. But Now I am thinking to use it as part of Plan B. Or just agree with him and spend time over there. But I would talk to SH first. <hr /></blockquote>JMHO, but to leave could also be construed as an act of enabling. Remember if he hints this way, then in his crazed A mind thinks he is 'controlling' the situation. Even though it isn't true, the WS will try and try again. Seems like what they accuse the BS most is what they are guilty of more than anyone. Crazy but true.

So what can you do? Well if he is hurting the family (emotionally or otherwise), then he needs to leave. All the discomforts needs to be on his plate. Don't listen to how hard it w/b for him.

Chris is right, you need to counsel with Steve 1st.

JMHO,
L.

I will talk to SH TUesday. My anxiety level is getting high again.

I felt very peaceful this morning while I was teaching, though I was tired. When I came home, WH was there. D said she wanted to go to her friends house so I sent her there. I asked her when she wanted me to pick her up, she said 7. I said I would prefer 5pm and come home for dinner. She said you just want me home so you can have a whole family, right? Why can't I go out? WHy can daddy go? I was uttered. But I asked her to give me her friends phone number, she started acting up. You never asked me, you seemed so unhappy just accusing me this and that. I said I just asked a phone number, all you do is to write it for me. THen she busted into tear and accusing me all the things. I was upset.

When I came home, WH said he would take a nap. I was so tired, I tried to take one too. But I just couldn't sleep. I felt bad about D. I also felt terrible that I don't know what to say to WH. I wish he is not here. But if he is here, I wish will not leave. I want to create some atmosphere, but don't know how.

Believer, even though we went to MBW. Plan A/B was never mentioned. In fact, only few sentences was mentioned about infidelity. SO WH has no clue what these plans are.

Please help me with some questions to ask SH.

lostnhurt - Well came over to my boys' place to post. My roommate is on the phone with his mom in Ouhacca (sp?) - anyway somewhere in Southern Mexico. I am learning lots of Spanish and it is really interesting.

Your daughter is using WH's actions to justify hers. Don't let her get away with it. Teenagers are very tough. Lots of problems. Believe me after raising 8 of them I know.

But they want their parents to set limits, although they can't admit it. I had knock down - drag out fights with two of mine. But I never gave up.

When my son had problems in school (although he is in the top 2% of his age group as far as IQ), I told him I would do whatever it took to get him back on track. I told him that I had vacation time, and would take it to go sit with him in class. Well, that ended that. He knew I would, and that was the last thing he wanted.

With stepdaughter, she started going here and there, without telling us where she was. Well, I hunted her down. I went up to one place she frequented and knocked on the door. A man answered the door. I told him SD was only 16 - did he want to go to jail? That ended that.

Now I am great friends with all the kids. They found out that I was not going to let them ruin their lives. Like it or not, I was going to hound them, hunt them down, whatever it took. And I did not back down. They hated it then, but have gotten over it.

Believer,

thank you for your advice. D just called. She asked me whether she can stay a little bit later. I said ok if she asked nicely like this. Idstead of 5pm, I will pick her up 6pm. I will be firm on her. She had no problem in school at all. All her teachers said that she is muture, charming, happy, great cititzen, etc. From the report card and talking to her teachers, it made me wonder that was my D. My sis said that b/c I am her safty net, she poured everything on me, her conselor said so too. But it is too hard on me.

I was fillinf her health form for her camp. They asked whether she is been counseling. If so, there is a lot more to do. I don't know whether I should fill that in. I don't want to be dishonest, on the other hand, i don't want to get in too much trouble.

I am going to dig some worms for fishing. I told S that I am taking him. he said how about daddy. I said he is invited, but I don't know whether he wants to go or not. He said, I don't know how to hook the worm, if daddy is not going, how are we going to do that. I said that I am relying on you, you are a big boy now. He smiled.

lostnhurt - Yes you are her safety net. That is good.

Just dig up the worms, then take them fishing. You just hold your breath, close your eyes, and stick the worm with the hook. Or let your son do it. Fishing is great family fun.

Lostnhurt,
I think that WH may view your trip to Toronto as an opportunity to do what he pleases, and of course he would welcome that. If you can get something in writing to say that he is OK with the trip, I think that would be for-sighted, no matter what SH recommends. You may need it legally.

Also, if you say you are leaving and give him the letter then, he may change his mind then about your leaving. You might want to consider mailing a Plan B letter as an option. That may be a question for SH.

Cherished

Lostnhurt,
I had an idea for you about going to Toronto. You can tell your H that you may have some difficulty going into Canada without him because of child kidnappings. Have him sign a letter saying he has agreed to your going to Toronto until August, and have a copy of his driver's licence with the letter so that the border police can compare signatures. You also may want to have birth certificates.

What you are doing is agreeing to a separation for several weeks. What he doesn't realize is that you will have no contact with him.
I've been thinking of you....

Cherished

Cherished, thank you for your suggestion. I really don't want to get into anything legal. I may just tell him that I will take the kids to Toronto, and when I came back, I will give him the letter, the real Plan B. I am not sure that is a good idea. I am very cofused.

We came back from church, of course, WH is gone as I expected. I don't want to see him here actually. I feel ok.

Last evening, we went fishing, Wh came along. We got some small fish. S practiced hooking the worm. He did few. Next time, i may just use chicken. I hope it would work.

D told me she had her first period. Any suggestion for celebration?

Your personal circumstances aside, you may have trouble taking your children across the border without your husband or some sort of letter from him. Might want to check it out...

Crossing border is not a problem. I took them many many times to Canada by myself. Never thought of anything. No questions asked. We spent a summer in Toronto before.

Well, then, guess it isn't...we got questioned when we were together going over the border from Minnesota...

One thing about delaying the Plan B letter to August is that the consequences of his actions may not sink in until after he gets the letter.

Cherished, I know what you meant by the delay. I really don't want him to hurt me now, I want to go away. If I stay here, it would be very hard, kids and I are home everyday, they are already very bored. We always had trips every summer, holidays, etc, long or short. Last year this time, we went to Vancouver, Seattle. When we came back we had short trips. We planned to go to China this year, now everything is changed. The friends who supposed to go with us left yesterday. I just feel so saaaaaaaaaad.

LNH,

Not sure when the best time for you to do Plan B is, but I do think it would do you good to get away on a vacation with your kids to Toronto.

I really enjoyed my week away with mine, even though we went to Disney--the place my WH and I have gone numerous times--so it brought back a few memories.

I'm really glad we went. It was a nice break.

I think you need that, too. You've had a long, rough spring!

LL

If you decide to go to Plan B while in Toronto, it might be safest to have a signed by your husband stating that you are going to Toronto until August.

I think it would be best if he know ASAP instead of just having fun this summer -- he may start to consider the consequences of what he is doing.

I am glad your health has held out this long.

I want to thank GOD for my health. I can sleep most of the nights, and can eat as much as S eats. I really have to discuss the issue with SH, I am going to Toronto, either with Plan B letter or not. I can't stay here for doing nothing.

I have two nephews there. My brohter needs someone to watch them too.

My father just called and told me he is sick. He sounded auwful, he said it is a bad cold. I don't know what it is. He wanted me to take him to the Dr. tomorrow. But tomorrow is D's appointment, with that kind of driving, no way I can take my father to Dr. I don't know whether I should call Wh about it and ask him to take D. If I wait till tomorrow to call WH, would that be too late to make arrangement? I know what a single parent is like. I am not only a sigle parent, but also a single daughter. My parents totally rely on me for everything.

Don't you have a sister fairly close? Could she take your father to the doctor? Or if it's just a bad cold, could he take some cold medicine and run a vaporizer or something (as long as he's not running a fever, which could mean it's more) and squeak by until the next morning, and then maybe you could take him?

LL

Sis is in upper NY state, 12 hr drive here. Bro is in Toronto, 5 hrs away. I am the only one here. Father always exagerates things, but you never know. I don't want to be regret. The worst thing is I will take him Tuesday.

lostnhurt - Hi. The doctor probably can't do anything about your father's cold. Have him try the ginger - it helped me. And have him drink lots of fluids.

Sounds like your plans are coming together. It will be fun and a distraction for your kids to go to Toronto.

I got confused. I guess because you said you were talking more to your sis, I was thinking she lived closer. No, I wouldn't want her to do a 12 hour drive!!

I agree with Believer. If it's just a cold, all they can do is give him decongestents and send him home anyway. You can't treat them. They go away on their own.

I'd only really worry if he was running a fever or if his lungs were congested and he was having problems breathing.

That's how my father almost died in December. He thought he only had a cold, and my mother lives in some sort of denial-fogland. By the time they decided he was really sick and called my sis, he was delirious, running a 102 degree fever, and so weak he couldn't even stand up or maintain bladder control. He ended up immediately in ICU with pneumonia.

So I always temper my comments about colds and the elderly. But if you father isn't a heavy smoker and isn't running a fever, I'd not worry about him having to wait until Tuesday.

By then, if it is really a cold, he might be feeling better. And if he really does get worse tomorrow, you could always take him to E.R. in the evening.

LL

[ June 27, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

lots of stuff over the weekend for you lost but you are gaining some clarity and will get even more tomorrow after talking to SH. even if you don't follow what SH says at least you will have his opinion on your situation and his insight given the way your H is having talked to him himself.

as a nurse, the advice on the dad's cold is right on.

i have no idea what to say about the whole situation about taking the kids to toronto. but weight the options w/SH plan B before or after toronto. by the time you actually get up there and come back, you will not be there for very long. maybe 4 weeks right? i guess i'm also kind of wanting to be selfish for you in that your H has been able to do whatever and whenever he wants so what's wrong w/you actually planning a normal trip to visit family?

you are not really "lost" any more so take comfort in that, you have come a long way and even though you still have a long "rough road" ahead, you have and will get the tools you need to travel. prayers to you, RR

Just came back from dropping D. Thank GOD, it is her last day there. I made the appointment for my father for tomorrow.

WH came home 11pm last night, I only told him to drop S to camp and good night. This morning, he left 7:30am, he said it was for meeting, but he did come back 9:30 to pick up S. Now, in about an hour, I will have to go pick him up.

I wish WH will not be home tonight, tomorrow morning I will talk to SH, I don't want him to hear it. Now I have to prepare some questions to ask him. Please help me with that.

LL, I always talk to sis. thanks for the free cell phone minutes. Last month, I had 1500 min.

Believer, the ginger soup remedy is from my grandma of dad's side. But my dad never believed anything. He is a very strange person.

will be praying for you tomorrow in your session w/SH and that he will be able to give you some additional clarity.

i will be out of the office for most of the day tomorrow at another site doing an inspection. in fact, depending how long it takes i may not come back to work. but i will be back on wednesday most definitely and look forward to an update regardless.

also wanted to thank you for the card you sent it has helped me out tremendously especially since H is still paying the cell phone bill and i have no idea how much it is.

God bless and prayers to you, RR

When will my problems end?

Today was supposed to be D's last day in the center. When I picked her up, I was told that she needs two more days. She won't be discharged. I even signed a discharge form this mornig. Now everything is messed up.

I will have a session with SH tomorrow 8:00am my time. I won't be able to keep it obviously unless WH can drop her. But he is nowhere to be found, I can't rely on him anyway. Then I need to drop S to his camp at 10am. If I drop D, I won't have enough time to come back to pick up S to drop him again. Then my father's appointment is at 3:00pm, which is the time D needs to be picked up.

What will I do. I have to act like a single parent now. First I e-mail MB and SH about my situation and asked for rescheduling. I may have to drop D early and come back to drop S. I would have to call to reschedule father's appointment, I hope they have a 4pm appointment, so I can go to his place directly after picking up D. I will feel bad if I can not take him to the Dr.

Wed morning I will have a closing at 8:00am. This is a puchase which I have to go. What am I going to do? I just keep praying, GOD will help me.

We saw the phychiatrist this afternoon again. He said that WH is very bad in front of D. he said that he is not responsible. He is the one who create this chaos but he doesn't not want to take the responsibility. He said that I have better make up my mind soon, don't beg him. I just feel so terrible now, tears in my eyes.

D is in a friends BD party now. S is playing outside. I just took the trash out, I am acting that WH is gone forever already. Boy, the trash can is heavy, that is first time I ever take it out since we moved to house. I think that I am lucky that way.

Yikes, when it rains it pours. It is very hard being a single parent. I raised by boys for 12 years by myself, and it was constant stress, always trying to be 2 places at once. So I feel for you there.

But just put it in order of priorities. Your daughter needs to finish off her counseling. Could you get a taxi to take father to doctor?

I used to pay a neighborhood woman to pick up my kids and take them here and there. She was a stay at home mom and appreciated the extra money. Maybe you can look into something like that.

The problem with my father is not the ride. Dr.s office is about 1 mile from his apartment. He does not know English and he does not trust anyone else either.

D's couseling is 1 hr away as you know. S's camp is about 15 min. But all three places are in different directions. Oh, what am I going to do?

I just prayed and feel some peace now. I know that GOD will take care of me. I will worry things tomorrow.

Today I tried my best to have good time with S. After picking him up, we rode bike to mcDonald for lunch. Then we picked berries. I felt so blessed to live in this neighbouhood. It was all sorrounded by trees with lots of animal, but it is minutes away from all major stores and malls.

Just called cusin and asked her daughter to help drop S off to his camp. So the only thing left is to reschedule father's appointment. I will leave a voice message to SH too. I will worry about Wed tomorrow. Please pray for me. I need all the prayers.

LNH,

A lot is being thrown at you right now. Keep reminding yourself that God will never give you more than you can bear.

You've already worked out your S's camp transportation. Good for you!

Again, that doctor thing... I'm sure your father wants to go, but if he's not getting any worse, it could still wait. You could always go over to his place in the evening and just sort of check up on him to reassure him and make him feel better.

I agree that your daughter is the highest priority of the three right now. Can you change your transportation time enough on the day you have the closing so that you can make it there? Could you take your D to her counseling after the closing is done and just explain your situation and that you may be late.

Hopefully your WH will show up and will be able to help, but always good to have a contingency plan.

Hugs to you {{{{{{LNH}}}}}}!!

LL

LL, thank you.

I want to praise GOD for helping me out. He really answered my prayer. I called the client about closing and told him that I won't be able to go. He said can you send someone else from your company, it clicked. I immediately asked my processor to go, she said it is ok, the title company is close to where she lives too. Bingo, this problem is sovled. Now the only thing is father;s appointment. I just called him, he said that he is caughing, headache etc. But he could walk around and go shopping. SO it shouldn't be a big deal. But he was not happy when i said that I may have problem taking him. We will see. I will keep praying.

LNH,

I'm so glad you got things worked out. That seems to be what I am having problems with (as you can see over on my thread). You may be struggling more with your hurt from your WH, but you are doing so much better organizing your life and taking care of things than I am.

I was worried about the closing you were supposed to do. I know those are at set times and can't usually be rescheduled quickly. But God worked with you and it's done.

Again, not to sound unfeeling, but if your father can walk around and shop, he can wait until it's more convenient for you to get him in.

If he doesn't have any major medical problems like heart problems or high blood pressure, I suggest Thera-Flu.

If you haven't used it, it's a hot drink with medicine that is actually for respiratory flu, and you do have to be careful with certain pre-existing conditions, but it's GREAT for making you feel better if you're miserable with a bad cold. Takes away aches and pains and relieves congestion.

Good stuff! Too bad I'm not supposed to use it anymore because of heart arrhythmias (though when I'm really desparate, I do still take it--I just half-dose.)

You are doing great! I can see lots of improvements in you over the last month. I knew you'd be reaching a point of feeling better soon!

LL

LL, I really think that GOD had blessed me a lot. I have so many things to be thankful.

D is in good care now. S's transportation is set. Father's health is good, he was checked couple months ago, Dr. said he is very healthy. Even though he didn't like to here it, he always complain different problems, but he just had the nerve(mind) problem, different Dr. said so. Now my business is also settled. What more do I need? I want to have a loving, caring H. I have trust in GOD that he will give me one.

I just can not stop praising the LORD.

You are doing very well. I see you making many changes and becoming a stronger person.

Your WH is in the fog, but it cannot last.

I tried to be strong until WH called. I didn't pick up the phone since I was driving. He left a message and I listened to it.

Here is what he said: I got your message(I left it 5pm yesterday). Why does D has 2 more days? She is fine and perfect. They just want more money, right? Why? How is your father?

I just couldn't stop crying. It is like that my wound is starting to heal, and he poked it and robbed salt on it. I was hurt, sad and angry and anything you name it. How can a human being become such cold blooded person?

I don't want to call him back. I hate him.

SH's office called me to reschedule the appointment for tomorrow 7;00am ,y time. THey sounded very understandable and sympathatic.

I also called Dr's office to reschedule my father appointment. Thye said the lates is 3:30. I told them that I can't make it 3:30. But everytime I was there, I had to wait for long time, this time the Dr. has better wait for me if he is not late. The receptionist said ok, I will make a note.

oh lost, my heart is just gladdened for you. just the little special time you had w/your S about going to mcdonald's and picking berries, how wonderful! isn't God good? he continues to provide for us like he said he would and he provided alternate transportation for your son and someone else to going to the closing for you. daughter #1 priority, you love your dad and i'm sure he knows that and would take him if you could and like you said about having to wait at the dr.'s office maybe by the time the dr. is ready to see your dad you will be there.

i wanted to relay a couple of things. we sang a song at church on sunday and made me think of your H (and you). this is the verse i'm thinking of "Lord, now indeed I find they power and thine alone, can change the leperd's spots and melt the heart of stone. Jesus paid it all, all to him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain, He washed it white as snow."

Your H's heart can be melted and who's to say it won't be some day. as you well know things don't happen in our time frames but God's. but the song verse also applies to those of us who believe and how much we have been changed as well. God has changed my heart so incredibly much that some times i just cry and sob because of what he has done in me through all of this. not saying this to brag on me but that the BS goes through a lot of changes and a lot of them are forced upon us because of the situation and the choices that the WS make but so many of these changes are for the good.

also wanted to share this Bible verse w/you, it's Mark 11:24 "therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." let us know when you are able to reschedule appt w/SH. continued strength and prayers to you, RR

[ June 29, 2004, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

It's been a looooooooong day. Just came home with all the driving. But Wh showed up and he was cooking. I bought pizza on the way home b/c I was too tired to cook. I don't want him to be here.

Now he is out there cutting the lawn. I even didn't know what to say to him. It is so hard. How will this whole thing end?

He sure seems to show up when you DON'T need him. What's up with that?

I would speak to him and tell him you need him to be around more.

After going back and forth couple times, finally took my father to the dr. It was one hour free way drive form the center to his apartment. We arrived at 4pm, waited for another 40 min before being seen. His cold was no big deal, it was viral. But the dr. had him take the bone density test, he had serve asteoprosis(sp?). Now he had to take medicine and do excersice. I am really afraid that he will get his bone broken, then I will be in deep trouble.

WH knew that I was mad at him. I didn't return his phone call. Now I don't want to talk to him, just see him as transparent. I am going to go to bed now. I just don't feel good at all, physically and mentally.

lostnhurt - Sorry you are not feeling well. I don't blame you. You have done your part for too long.

I am going to talk to SH soon, in few minutes. Please pray for me.

Lostnhurt,
I hope you will be able to see a clear path for you. I was just listening to a tape of Harley's radio show about what can be done if a spouse has an affair? His response was that it is all up to the spouse who had the affair. Can that person work with his spouse to recover the marriage? It is the responsibility of the spouse who betrayed to change behavior.

That has been a hard lesson for me to learn. You have handled yourself far better than I.
Cherished

Here is what I was listening to from Harley's radio show that reminds me of your situation:

Counseling from my perspective is an opportunity to change somebody’s mind, to change somebody’s thoughts, to change somebody’s attitudes, to change them. And a lot of times you got to begin with their attitudes. But that’s not where you end. You can’t end with attitudes, because you have to end with behavior. I’ve known a lot of people that fully believe that they should not be beating their wife, and yet they can’t stop because they haven’t learned to stop doing that…So the first step is to recognize that there is no excuse for an affair. If her husband were to tell me, every time I have an affair, I feel guilty, I feel like I’ve sinned against God, I’ve sinned against my wife, I’m a horrible person to be doing this. Then I would say, “Now, what we have to do is create an environment where you’re not going to have another affair. And it’s going to be very restrictive, at least at first. You’ve got to be watched 24 hours a day. You’re not going to be able to do and say what you want to say. It’s just like helping a person overcome addiction to alcohol. You can’t be working in a bar when you are trying to recover from being an alcohol. This woman’s husband says, “It’s your fault that I’m having an affair.” And I’d say, “What can she do to get him to stop?” And the answer is “Absolutely nothing. There’s nothing she can do. She has to walk away. She has to turn her back and walk away from him. Otherwise, she’s going to continue to be hurt by him the rest of her life. The same thing is true of men that beat their lives. The same thing is true of men or woman who are verbally abusive. The question is: “How do I get my spouse to stop being abusive? How do I get my spouse to stop hurting me?” The answer is, “There’s nothing you can do. It’s all on the part of the person who is doing the damage.”

[ June 30, 2004, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

always praying for you but said a special prayer right now. i put something in the mail for you today. God Bless.

Thank you for your prayer, RR. Chrieshed, thank you for the insight.

Talked to SH this morning. Went to drop off D, then went pick up S. I feel extremely tired now, I have no engery to post much. Will head to the road in about an hour. I may post the detail tonight. I predict that WH won't be home tonight, so I can feel the peace.

[ June 30, 2004, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

This is a hard fact to face:

And the answer is “Absolutely nothing. There’s nothing she can do. She has to walk away. She has to turn her back and walk away from him. Otherwise, she’s going to continue to be hurt by him the rest of her life."

I wish you the best. I think time in Toronto with family can really help you.
Cherished

Another run around day. Finally home from talking to the Dr., picking D up and drop her off to her friend's BD party. I am exauhsted from doing all these. Thank GOD, she is finally discharged.

Today, I talked to SH very early even before WH got up.

I updated him for what was going on and asked him is it time to go for plan B. He said that WH is doing something significant keeping him distant. He was doing it his way, he doesn't want to reveal it b/c he thought revealing will hurt me and the kids more. It may be time to do plan B. Then I borught up the idea for going to Toronto. He said it is a good idea, but the legal issue. I should go ASAP, but don't give him the plan B letter. I should do a "reduced" and distant Plan A while I am TOronto. THat way I can avoid the legal issue and have time away from him. I should treat this as a nice vacation. When I present it to WH, I should say it positively, present it as his idea.

Plan B should be done when I am in the house. Otherwise it will be me to abandon the house and take the kids away. I should give him the Plan B letter when I come home. Regarding the coming up anniveray, I can just give him a card. He doesn't care anyway.

So I thought about this plan. I may just ask WH to drive us there if he is willing to. We will see. I don't expect to see him tonight, he will be somewhere out there.

I feel extremely sad. I don't know how people deal with them for such a long time. I feel constantly tired. I drove to the road shoulder twice today b/c of drowseness.

You are starting to scare me. You have to take care of yourself better, and get some rest. You could get into a bad accident. That will not help things.

I think you got good advice on going to Toronto. It will give your HW time to miss you and the kids. Maybe he will find out what it is like to be lonely.

I tried to rest as much as possible. Last night I went to bed early. Sis porbably called twice, I didn't pick up the phone. WH iddn't either. But with all I am doing, and the stress, I am stretched to the limit. I am down.

Lostnhurt,
SH's advice sounds very wise. You can regain some perspective away from your H and yet give him yet a few more weeks to come to his senses. Coming home to an empty house, preparing his own meals, not being in day to day contact with the kids... may wake him up. And, if he is still in an A, he may start to see some warts.

It's time -- you need to be there for your children.

Cherished

lostnhurt - I really feel for you. I still believe your WH will be back. However, I don't know if you will want him by then.

LNH,

I also think SH's advice is very wise for you. It prevents the legal issues of looking like you're taking the kids and shutting your WH out of their lives, yet allows you to get away.

My week away was wonderful. I wish I could go back--RIGHT NOW! I need another vacation.

I'm sure it would not only do you good but would do your kids good as well to be in a different environment for a while.

LL

It is a wise idea, but WH disappeared again, I have no one to talk to about going to TOronto. If I just go, I will be kidnapping. Isn't that rediculu? I set myself in the prison now. I am sick and tired of this whole thing.

Next time he shows up, make sure you talk to him and get his approval, and then you can go when you're ready.

LL

I feel that my health is getting worse now. I am weak, fatigue, and lose another 5lbs. Diareha comes back again. Fotunately I can sleep better now. This morning I didn't get up till 9am. I still feel sleepy. Now after sending S to his camp, I sit in the library.

If I have to send D again, I am going to die. WH still had no trace. He even didn't want to call about the kids. yesterday, S told me that he wanted to spend more time with his dad. I said that you tell him. I feel so sorry for the kids. Why is he so cold hearted?

Finally, I am not as busy today. But I feel hollow, empty. WH didn't call and didn't show up. I want to go to Toronto. Should I call him to discuss? I don't have energy to take the kids out for whatever, but I feel bored at home too. What a pitiful life.

Be careful about going to Toronto without his approval -- but try to go as soon as possible. You'll get some much needed care, support, and perspective.
Cherished

LNH,

From what I read, he seems to show up every couple days or so. You do sound like you are physically drained again. Just try to focus on God and hang on until he shows up again. You know he will. He always does. And then talk to him about Toronto, get his okay, and you're free to go.

I think it will do you so much good to get away.

LL

LL, how is your DD? I feel that I am in the prison for long time. I hate this. You are right, I am physically drained. I don't know how long I can hang in.

losthurt - You can do this. You have hung in there this long. Please take care of you for a change. I wish I lived by you, to walk with you, and pull you up.

Believer, I already lost my focus and purpose. What do I hang in for? I don't see any hope.

You are hanging in there. You did Plan A for months and he is still treating you with no respect. Plan B is his last chance.