it is so funny (well maybe not funny) that you said that about the medicine because that was going to be my next question <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> if you were on any medications. yes, start it tomorrow! and i'm sure it will start to help. if it doesn't (not sure what your previous experience w/it was) then talk to your dr. about trying a different one.

you've got some very valid reasons or repsonses in your post (about shopping, reading, etc.). you are very valid in what you feel and say and that says a lot. everything you are feeling or going through is so "normal" in the situations we're going through. of course knowing that doesn't necessarily make us feel better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

i just had an idea, what about starting a thread on a MB get together? i know we kind of talked about that before along w/some of the other posters like believer and lordslady like a cruise or something. coordinating something like that could really take a lot of your time. i know i would absolutely love meeting you. i kind of want to do something special for myself. i had really considered going on a trip to belize by myself but you know how that went, my finances just doesn't give room for that. anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> who's to say that going on a cruise every 3 months is a bad thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> i'm just throwing stuff out there. things we do for ourselves doesn't have to be anything for a great lenght of time. what about planning another trip to toronto? of course, minus the WH. yes, you can feel sad that you want him to go w/you but you and i know as well as others that we have to be realistic and that maybe kicking him out on the street <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> is what it will take to make him WAKE UP!!!!!!

i'm starting to get into using these smiley faces <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> i guess it just sounds to me like you are so busy already that i can't imagine wanting to be busier. w/both of your jobs and especially your kids. sounds like w/the size of your house that you probably have a lot of upkeep in that aspect. it's kind of weird but i actually like organizing things. i used to go through each room at least once a year and just organize like getting rid of stuff, putting pictures in photo albums, espcially going throught the files and separating out closed accounts, etc. i'm not exactly sure what your H does for a living or what his interests are but maybe that's something you could try to learn more about? i don't know just thinking outloud. like what i said about the basketball game and trying to come up w/things to talk about.

well it's past my time for leaving work and i have church tonight so i need to get going. have a good night and prayers to you. Love in Christ, RR

My mom just called. My sister was with her this morning and I talked to her for a little bit. So mom sensed something and called me. I felt bad thta I didn't let her know. But on the other hand, I didn't feel that bad. When I told her, she was crying. I totally understand her feeling, but I don't want to hear her cry. I had to comfort her. That is the major reason I did not tell her.

She started reasoning why Wh did it and said why can't we sit down to talk things over. I told her that I am looking for ways to resolve the problem. But whatever the outcome is, we have no control. Only GOD will know and we just have to trust GOD. She felt sorry for the children. I said that I will take care of them.

I love mom, but I don't know why I don't feel close to her. I have to pray hard to connect with her.

WH is a big fat liar. He told me he would go to D's concert tonight and do lesson. But where is he? I am too stupid to believe him.

I am getting angrier now, I think that is good to prepare me for Plan B.

Last night, I restart my celexa and Xenax. Now I still don't feel good. How I miss those few days I felt good.

hey lost, i emailed you and replied to you on my post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> i didn't realize that your mom didn't know about the situation. does she and your sister live in MI also? it is hard for a lot of people to understand why we can't just sit down and talk things over. if it were that simple we would have done it already right? you gave the best response you could by saying that it is up to God. is your mom a Christian too? Go w/your own judgement but maybe just talking to your mom about the situation when she brings it up would be better. not sure. introducing her to the MB concepts probably wouldn't hurt either. does she know that you guys went to the MB seminar?

well i have a meeting in a few minutes but wanted to re-iterate some ideas that have been suggested previously about some things you can do. you could always volunteer at a animal shelter, soup kitchen, red cross, etc. couldn't hurt to get your kids involved in that either. but i'm not sure how open your kids would be to that. but anyway, i know someone also suggested you writing a book or writing about your life. i was thinking about this more and i think it's a good idea. more of your transition to america. you could do it in english and chinese that would double the work. you could also start a recipe book for your daughter for when she is grown. my sister and i have always said our mom was the best cook in the whole world (i'm getting teary eyed just thinking of what that means to my family-i'll explain more later). but anyway i gave my mom some blank recipe books for christmas one for me and one for my sister. the book says "from mom's kitchen" and on each i attached a note from me and my sister with the recipes we requested for her to put in the book. of course she was very touched and so was my dad. because she truly is the best cook in my world.

anyway i have a meeting to go to in 5 minutes so i gotta go for now. remember the bad day i was having tuesday? well yesterday was so much better for me and a lot of that had to do w/you. so keep your chin up, restart your medication, and pray for me like i pray for you. luv ya, RR

Lostnhurt,
MC #2 told me something very true. You cannot control your husband. All you can do is look at what he is doing and decide how you are going to act. Reaction is bad. Reaction implies that what you do might influence him.

We had a blow-up. I said that the program means we spend 15 hours per week together, and we need to do that. He said, "If we spend 14 hours per week, do you divorce me?" I said, "I think so."

Last week, we spent 15.7 hours together. We are on track to spend 15 hours together this week.

My H has told me that the A ended two years ago when it was exposed. He has had four contacts with her since, two of which were with me and had to do with a harassment order she filed on me. (Long story: I was blaming her for my H's behavior.) Anyway, I have no reason to believe that he isn't telling the truth. Still, the end of the A does not mean the beginning of recovery.

I think you may get to a point where you realize that you cannot influence your H. He needs to make his own decisions. If he decides to be thougthless towards you, it doesn't really matter if he is in an A or not. The fact is that a thoughtless H is no H. If you get to the point that you are not willing to settle for a thoughtless H, then you can go to Plan B and that forces him to look at his own actions. He doesn't have the choice of being neglectful and thoughtless. He's out. Period.

I am giving you my perspective and it may be way off base in your situation, but I think that the anger may be the last emotion before resolve, resolve which you will need in order to stay in Plan B. I remember once hearing that you are ready for D when there is no more anger. I think that may be true with Plan B as well. Anger means you are trying to influence him. Anger is gone when you realize that he makes his own decisions, and so do you.

Think about it. The other thing to think about, something which I knew as I went through the worst of the A, is that things change. You're in the worst of it now, but when you get through it, whether you remain M or not, there will be better days.

I had an image in my mind which got me through. My D wasn't even 1, and I remember thinking of her as an old lady in a nursing home telling someone else that her mother had killed herself even before she turned 1. I even told this story to OW (before I knew there was an A) as a way to tell her how much her "friendship" with my H was affecting me. That image, of my D all grown and old, with her life saddened by the suicide of her mother, kept me going. I knew I had love to give, even if it was being totally rejected by my H.

Cherished

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Cheirshed, I am getting close to my limit. I am closer to Plan B. But I am afraid that he is going to spend this memorial weekend with us, then it will drive me back. Actually, I am more liking his thoughtless behavior now which will set a ground for me to go to Plan B. It is a paradox I know. Please keep talking to me from your perspective. I am glad that you are getting the 15 hours. I don't see any hope for doing lesson here.

RR, yes, maybe volunteer in the animal shelter. D loves animal.

Lostnhurt,
What I am saying is that getting to your limit may be exactly what you and your H need.

I will try to keep posting, but we'll be out of town this weekend.

GOD will be with you. GOD loves you. Your D and S need you. Your life can be very full and loving even if your H decides to leave his family.

Cherished

Cherished,

Thank you. Have a great weekend.

I will have to be firm and stand for myself now. Looks like Plan B is in the horizon.

RR, my mom was in MI, but she is in Toronto visiting my brother. Sis is in upstate NY, she is visiting brother too. SHe took the whole week off before her vacation expired. She offer to visit me, I should have taken it. But it takes her long time to drive here.

I feel like calling WH now. Should I call him? Oh, I just don't know how to stop thinking about him.

hey lost, just wanted to tell you that i'm going to start a new thread for myself. i don't want anyone to get the wrong idea when they read my thread on my sessions w/SH. by that i mean i want to keep that to be a discussion on my sessions. that way if i suggest to someone to go and read my thread on my sessions to give them an idea of what to expect then they won't have to read all the stuff in "between" does that make sense?

Cherished made some very good points so pray on those.

thanks for the info about the phone cards and let me know what you find out. you have to be a member of sam's club or costco in order to buy things there, so i wouldn't be able to do that.

are you being able to stay dry w/all the storms? i don't know if it's really affecting you or not. when i was in church last night the tornado warning sirens were going off. of course i was in the best place i could be for a storm, spirtually as well as physically (building is very sturdy).

look into the animal shelter or animal rescue league they need all the help they can get. i used to think that emotionally i just could not volunteer at a shelter. i just could not stand to see any animal being mistreated, or see an animal who was abused, see an animal i knew was going to their death, or going there with only being able to take one animal home. the emotional toll would be too much and is one of the reason why i didn't become a veternarian or work in a vet's office because of all the pain that animals go through and them not being able to tell us what's wrong. i just simply cannot stand to see an animal hurt, even more than i can stand people hurt, i know that's kind of crazy and i'm a nurse. but people for the most part can tell us where they hurt or point to it and there are so many people that just treat animals like garbage or property.

anyway, i'm getting on my soapbox here. but i have a very good friend who is just as much an animal lover as i am maybe even more extreme. she wouldn't buy eggs from a store if she didn't know what condition the chickens were treated. but she was a big volunteer in animal shelters before she had a child. she diligently volunteered as much as she could, donated what she could as far as food and blankets, and she even made bandanas for the animals. she explained volunteering at an animal shelter this way to me "if i can spend time w/an animal that may have not known anything good then maybe i can be the one person who shows them an act of kindness and i owe it to them to do that. even if an animal is put to sleep, at least i know that i can pet them, walk them, or play w/them until that happens and give them some good experiences in their life." so when she put it to me that way that changed my mind about volunteering in an animal shelter. now you can probably understand a little of why i miss my dogs so much <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

i thinking caring about and caring for animals says a lot about people. of course, some people can go a little far and what animals some one can like or care fo versus others varies from person to person. like i don't mind snakes and lizard and would hold them and care for them. but they are not exactly cuddly. i wouldn't want to have to feed a snake mice either so i would probably choose a lizard over a snake. i love ferrets, i used to have 4 of them at one time. but unfortunately they got old and they died but some people just think they smell too much and are too much like rats. well, i like rats too. all ferrets you get (except from a breeder) are descented. yes, they do still have kind of a musty smell but i still liked it, it made me feel warm and fuzzy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> i mean after all some people like the smell of gasoline <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

i've even thought of getting a pet praie dog or skunk because they can be really affectionate if they are raised right but that costs money and i want to give my dogs all the attention right now. i've never known a guinea pig that's affectionate. i'm not really a bird person because some of them can live too long (some up to 75 years), they are expensive, they make too much noise, and they are not cuddly in my opinion.
i do wish i could have a pet squirrel or at least one that i could hand feed around where i live.i abolutely love squirrels and frequently thank God for allowing me so much joy from just watching them. no matter how bad i am feeling, and as you know i've felt pretty bad especially as of late, when i see a squirrel I smile. the same thing w/horses.

horses are i think the most majestic creatures on this earth. every time i see one, i just think, "wow God, they're wonderful." i've been around horses my whole life in one way or another, even won some "races." i have one so to speak but she's w/my parents because neither my sister or I have a place to keep her. i just love and miss the smell of horses. kind of weird huh? to miss the smell of horse pucky but it's more of the smell of the actual horse. i make sure every time i visit my parents i have an apple or a carrot to give to our horse. i haven't ridden her in years but still hope she'll be around a few more years. the only thing that makes me sad now is that the OW apparently rides horses and is very involved w/them, so now i'm a little disgusted w/knowing that i try not to think about that too much.

they only different mindset i have now about animals is that people can be arrested for animal abuse and neglect but our WS don't get into trouble for what they do to us and the emotional pain we go through is like no other. i mean adultery is WRONG no matter what society you live in. if you are in the military you can get into some serious trouble if you are committing adultery. everyone will evenutally have to pay for the sins they committed, including me. yes, we still go to heaven because God forgave us for those sins and died for us but when we get to heaven we will still have to answer for what we have done and look into God's face and be shown what we did in our lives that made him sad. well i gotta go and get some work done. hope you're have a better day, prayers to you, RR

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

if you are on the computer lost then turn on the bott radio network and listen. it will be such a blessing to you and will act like medicine. peace to you , RR

RR, there are a lot of speakers, which one do you suggest?

You will have a lot of topic to talk with my D. She loves animals.

you mean i have to choose? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> that is a really tough decision. but i would probably start w/dr. dobson's webiste family.org he has lots of different issues. 2nd Chuck Swindoll's webiste insight.org deals mostly our walk w/God, his series on "job, a man of endurance" is excellent and i feel will help you out a lot. 3rd Chip Ingram's lote.org has a lot of messages on M. i think you can take a lot of what he says to use now but also save what you learn for the future. because even when you are in recovery it will still take a lot of work.

start w/those. i could always tape things and send them to you if you want. i'm able to listen to the bott radio network which has all those programs on there all day long. i listen to it when i'm driving and when i'm at work. keep the faith lost, God is carrying us through these times, RR

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

Ladies-

I'm still having fun, fun, fun with my family in Seattle. It is very good for me. I haven't thought at all about WH and his problems. Mainly I am thinking about all of the time I wasted being miserable.

I hope everyone here can get busy doing things. It is hard at first, you have to MAKE yourself. That is what I did. But the more satisfaction you find elsewhere, the more self-esteem you get back.

Each day you need to make yourself do something fun. Find a project, activity or new interest, and do it. Let's all have an activity support group, and do something everyday.

We can use this site as an accountability check in. What do you think?

RR, it is very generous of you to offer me the tapes. Thank you. I am able to listen to it now. I am listening to the family life now. I will keep trying until I find one that fits to my situation now. It seems that this one is pretty good.

My WH is not a believer, D and I and many others are praying for him, Please pray for him too. Thank you.

yes prayer for your H will definitely be on my list. the more the prayer the better right? prayer is powerful.

i like Dr. dobson's family.org because he has the same message on at 7am, 1200, and 8pm CST. that way if i miss it at 7 then i can listen to it at another time. in fact, the messsage today was on dead marriages. i know that a lot of the messages you may not feel like they apply to you. that's a lot of why i hadn't listen to these types of programs over the years but usually you can still get something out of them.

for instance, Hank Hannegraf's programs from the Christian Research Institute mostly deal w/questions people have about certain aspects of Chritianity. i know that a lot of people say that kids are being taught about evolution in school but i never thought i was. but after listening to the program the last couple of days about the "case for creation." it suddenly dawned on me that i was taught evolution in school even though it wasn't called that. my teachers called it natural selection or survival of the fittest.

you and i know that if we follow God and do his will then all areas of our life will benefit. it is very hard to know exactly what God's will is and we have to pray daily for discernment that his will be revealed to us. yes, we have the Bible but people still interpret that differently but hey at least we have the Bible. there are many people out in the world who don't have a bible, or it's against the law for the gospel to be preached where they live.

so even though you might not see right away how the messages will help you, i know eventually you will be able to use them in helping you in your walk w/God. you can also use what you learn to help others. look at the wonderful testimony you are about finances? and think what a wonderful example you have set for your children and what you have said to me. so even something like a message about finances, prayer, raising kids, what the Bible says can help you in all areas of your life, not just your M. because even though it is very painful and extremely difficult what we are going through in our M, we both know that there is more to our lives than the M and what our real purpose on this earth is for and who we will have to answer to someday about what we did or didn't do on this earth.

even the programs on politics helps me understand what other people think and how i can talk to them. so don't discount anything you hear. but start and do what you can and continue what you are doing because you are doing better EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD WHO POSTS TO YOU SEES THE PROGRESS YOU HAVE MADE AND THE PERSON YOU ARE BECOMING. you are a blessing to us as much as we are to you. God is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, and his sacrifice of his son for us is the best thing that could have happened to us despite all the PAIN THAT HE WENT THROUGH. sometimes that's what get me through feeling sorry for myself is by remembering what God has done for us and what Jesus went through and the least i can do is try to do his will. but i'm honest w/God and tell him frequently i just don't know what your will is so please help me to know what that is and reveal to me what your plan is. God is our friend too and knows our hearts.

talk to you later, RR

RR, thank you for the prayers. I feel that I am very incapable of writing something like you wrote. It is so deep and touching. I feel that GOD has his plan on me for this whole ordeal. I was not very close to GOD before, I just went to church, seldom read the Bible. Now I know how important it is to read it everyday. i feel the thirsty and want to be fed but HIS words. I constantly talk to HIM. I was talking to GOD on the car today after dropping S to school(this used to be Wh's job), that I cried so hard. I kept praising GOD and thanked him. I know that GOD is watching me and leading my way. He will give me the best.

Wow, I just caught up with your entire thread...took me all lunch.

You asked if you should wait till your LB was negative to move to Plan B? No...before. You have to move to Plan B while you still have LU's left for S or else there will be nothing to build on when/if recovery begins. You are losing steam FAST and i would encourage you to begin to think of the timing for Plan B. I copied this from a may 12th post of yours...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate this feeling. I like to feel peaceful. I know that Plan B may get me there.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what Plan B is all about, protection...it protects the love you have left, and preserves your M just where it was last left. It protects you from all the hurt and OW nights your WH is spending.

Your DD and DS are barometers for what is happening in your M...listen to LL, her family settled and became calm once the chaos of the OW was out of their lives (and firmly in place with the WH...but now gone!!!)

I can't see you keeping this up much longer, and can't see your family able to handle the stress much longer either.

You are probably not pleasant to be around, taking it out on your kids, and a twist of emotions all day and especially night...lack of sleep. I can promise that Plan B will bring peace, and an earlier demise to the A.

You are holding on because WH is keeping up with your family commitment EN...but it's not enough, his independent behavior is taking out ALL the LU's he's putting in, +.

What will Plan B give you? Clarity, the ability to pray and learn with a clearer mind, calmer emotions, sleep, order with the kids, can love and calm kids easier...better. Is it worth it?

So what is the fear? That he will never come back. That is always a possibility when you move to Plan B, that's why SH says you need to try Plan A first. But some situations need to move to Plan B so the S can get a glimpse of what life would be like without you, and with the OW...yeah, she's fine one or two nights a week...but any more than that?

RR,

I HAD to respond--sorry I'm a little late jumping in here--and it's not exactly MB material...

I am a fellow animal lover! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I love them all, and I totally understand your comment about sometimes feeling worse about animals hurting than people hurting (I will lump small children with animals, though, since they also can't tell us what's wrong).

I would take in any lost animal if I lived in the country. I've taken in enough as it is. We currently have 2 dogs, 2 cats, and 2 painted turtles. We've temporarily had rabbits (before we found the good homes on the farm), and we also had two pet rats. And rats are great! They're clean and ours didn't even think about biting. They are very curious and cute.

When I was little, if my goldfish died, I buried it and held a funeral for it.

I've often said if I didn't have to work, I'd be volunteering my time at animal shelters.

My dogs were wonderful through the early days after WH and I separated. While kids are great, mine are teens and around around much. The two dogs, though, sensed something was wrong. They wanted to be around me all the time, and each night when I shut off the lights, they jumped up in bed, one on one side of me and the other on my other side, and they "sandwiched" me in the bed.

I truly believe if you want a tiny taste of God's unconditional love, spend time with a dog. They never hold a grudge when you get angry with them (btw: cats DO, but I love them, too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

And yes, I also don't mind snakes, as long as they're not poisonous, though I wouldn't want to feed them if they require live food.

I pretty much only draw the line at spiders. HATE 'em!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As a final statement, unless plans change, my DD is bring home a baby opossum to "babysit" over Memorial Weekend. Her science teacher has won Golden Apple awards for being such a great teacher, and he's really into animals. Now most people would probably cringe at the thought of a opossum being in their house. I'm sort of looking forward to it. She says it's cute.

LNH,

I agree that it would be great to do some animal volunteering. I'll bet there are shelters that will let you bring your DD. Great therapy for you and your daughter. Mine, who is 14, does volunteer work through her school, and two of the places she goes are a humane society and to a private 'no kill' shelter here in town. She doesn't get to go to the Animal Rescue League (our biggest shelter) only because they require some training classes before you can volunteer and she hasn't had them.

LL