Hi veryregretful.
With all the 'eye contact' that goes on between lovers how did your husband, and your OM's wife not SEE that you two had something going on?

It must have been hard not to look in one another's eyes a bit too long.
Is was hard, being together, wasn't it?

Your quote: "It was always awesome, the best of times, I so miss them as a couple, I miss them bad."

So now you are thinking of the fun you all had; you surely remember also the fear of your mates finding out. True?

Sincerely, Julie

<small>[ May 14, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

I long for the times before the A, when we was all friends. I do not long for the times during the A. Yes that was incredibly hard. My H would have never seen it, she started questioning it as soon as it began. Sorry not to make that clear. I'm stuck in changing history, I want my friends back, and I don't want the A to have happened. I want the life as we knew it, the 4 of us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

VG,

But, as you stated that life was not very good or you would NOT have had the A. In fact, I suspect you enjoyed your friends because they offered relief from the marriage. Now you have an H willing to change, your goal is to see to it he changes as he wishes, but that those changes please you. Once those changes are made, your goal is to make darn sure your H realizes he is very very happy he made the changes. It is your job to make those changes something HE is happy he made and enjoys making.

I gave someone recently my standard lecture on the difference between guilt and remorse. You don't sound as if the guilt is hanging you up too badly, but I will remind you that guilt is something you have While or before you do something bad. It is supposed to paralyze you so you don't do it.

Remorse is what you have after you have done something you regret deeply, and it is supposed to motivate you to actions that remediate the damage done by something you were NOT guilty enough to stop before you did it.

Got that? I am guessing that as you and your H rebuild this marriage which is often described as "work" here, but can be "fun" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> as well. You will find that your best friend is...YOUR H. That is what is supposed to happen. That doesn't mean you won't be friends or even close friends with another couple, but your BEST friend should always be beside you.

So I understand what you are saying, but I also think you are forgetting why this couple played such an important role before the A (they were a diversion from the problems in the marriage.)

Fix the marriage, and you find your fiends play a different role. Talk with your H about this.

God Bless,

JL

VR,

"Zee Doktor is een."
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Should I be lying down for this session??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Careful I know what you meant (psychiatrist) but sometimes MB people don't carefully read all of the posts and then they are quick to be judgemental and the flames fly. (Right? MrsX & KiwiJ)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I could rationalize you to pulling out the 2x4, but I won't, because I know better, it was my choice, a really bad choice. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. Don't need to use the 2x4 yet but now there's one with your initials and it's ready just in the event I start to hear the fog horn going off.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...It is a depression due to the terrible way I feel about myself,... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As others have said, you need to claim your actions but try to let go of the guilt. I know easier said than done.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It was always awesome, the best of times, I so miss them as a couple </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Best to just forget about it. Look to the future bc unfortunately can't ever go back to the way things were. (Looking to the future is something I've had trouble with as well)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would love for my H to come on and chat, it will never happen, he just isn't that type of man. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wasn't that kind of man either until I stumbled onto my W's A. Unfortunatley she reacted in the typical WS way: deny, deny & deny to the point where they try to make you believe you are a paranoid, jealous lunatic.

It's funny how there seems to be a different reaction between BSs who suspected their S's A and those who are told of the A out of the blue. (Seems to apply to the men especially; probably bc in general we're not as communicative as you ladies)

Your H is just like MrsX's, Lisa103's, KiwiJ's and others. They were all told by their Ss about the A. They don't seem to want to come here.

Conversely the BS who suspected, came here searching for answers to their S's behavior, the A, the fog,etc. We've gotten used to posting to help others and to compare notes with other male BSs so we don't think our situations are strange or different than others.

A suggestion: Maybe buy some of the marriage improvement books ie His Needs Her Needs, Men are from Mars..., See if he'll read them with you or read him passages as you unwind in the evening.

Speaking of books! You said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We have S issues, one being the H is impossible to Fullfill. So he is typical male, it was S A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just finished Mars & Venus in the Bedroom. It's very good and will help the two of you reconnect and figure out the S issues. Tell your H that it'll get him more S and I'm sure he'll be at the bookstore within the hour!!

Gotta go. Have a good date night with the other couple. Remember "baby steps, baby steps, baby steps...he said in his best Bill Murray impersonation.

cwmac

I, too, am impressed with the sense of remorse, openness, and interest in rebuilding your marriage. All the current BSs on the site dream for spouses like you. I treated my WH like gold before I found out, after, and for months and months until he moved out...and he was always the most upright, integrity driven, Christian man I have ever known, and now...he is so lost.

Anyway, I wanted to respond to a question you posed about your H making a total about face, and questioning the sincerity and permanency of that change.

Let me share that I was disrespectful, caustic, angry, controlling, and the OPPOSITE of submissive. I was living totally contrary to God's command for a wife.

And I assumed this was a "dynamic" that worked for us. It was stupid, immature, and completely ridiculous to think that my treatment of H would be acceptable to him, or any man for that matter, but I did. I just thought, hey, I wear the pants in the family, and he is alright with that. And I lose my temper and say mean, disrespectful things...but he knows I do not mean it.

I ASSumed all of that because my H did not display his unhappiness the same way I did. In other words, if I was unhappy, trust me, EVERYONE knew about it. My mouth was out of control...and I inflicted a lot of damage with my tongue (I obviously had not read the book of James, and heard the analogy of the mouth being compared to the pits of hell). When he was unhappy, he just withdrew. He pulled all tha pain, and anger, and dissapointment inside of himself, where it sat and festered. And he did not say a word...but he withdrawal a little. But I just say that as him being tired, or stressed, or surrending to my controlling ways.

When I found out about the A, a giant, 2 x 1 million hit me smack dab in the forehead, and I was so shocked into reality...that it took my breath away.

When my H came home from an international trip and told me he did not love me...I was shocked.
One day I was hurting so badly, that I prayed fervently for God to help me. I happened to turn on the Christian radio station, and heard a focus on the family broadcast. It was a guest speaker, Emerson Eggerichs, and he was talking about how women need love, and men need respect. He talked about Ephesians 5, and all the things the bible says about marital relationships.

And in that moment, I cried and cried and cried.

The fact was, I DID feel immense love and respect for my H. He was my hero. I admired every single thing about him. Really and truly. But I naively thought my careless treatment of him was ok with him, because he loved me unconditionally. No matter what. And he HAD to know I admired and respected him, right?

God told me WRRRRROOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

And in that moment, He changed my heart. And it wasn't false or fake or me acting a certain way to keep my H...it was sincere, because I did truly respect and admire him, I had just done a terrible job showing him.

A WEEK LATER, I found out about the A.

And in all of that, I treated him respectfully, NEVER saying a mean or cruel thing about him, or her, or the situation. Just tried to reason with him to give our M another shot.

I now hope and pray those several months while he was here, experiencing what life with the changed me could be like, that it planted some seeds that will someday bring him home.

The A, dismantling of our M, and all the pain and betrayal and confessions, and finally, communication about what he was feeling, enduring before he committed the A, all of it, was out there, and it was what I needed to finally see what part I had played to help us get to where we were at that point.

And maybe, it was realized too late.

But I bet, it was a permanent change.

cwmac, What's up doc?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I talked with my H last night about posting, he feels he has dealt with this and it is done, no sense in talking about it everyday, which we don't, we have only talked about it, maybe 5 times. He feels this will just fester old wounds. It has been 2 months since dday, is he truly over it? He is a very strong man, who is sensible, but can he really go on and be okay? This was his BF, my OM, can he really have worked through all that betrayal?

JL, I wouldn't say our F old friends offered relief to my M, they brought joy to it. My H wouldn't socialize with anybody, family or friends, so it was a new thing for us, something I had been craving our entire M. thank you for clearing up the guilt/remorse thing, I'm extremely remorsful. I have always felt my H was my BF unfortunetly he didn't feel the same, but he is now making me a priority, his new BF. He was my BF, but she was my female BF, and that is what I miss. I'm really stuck with wanting to turn back time. Is that weak of me, and does that mean I'm not taking responsiblity for my actions, I so just wish life back, and then I could correct my M the right way, through communication.
cwmac, my H is so afraid of seeing or talking to anybody who knows about the A, we have went to drastic ridiculous measures to avoid everybody. Everyday he trusts me more, and it is getting better, I feel his pain and I feel the shame, every time he questions me or we avoid a situation. Today we are sitting down with MB worksheets, I can't wait. I think we will both benefit so much from this.

ChristyV,
thank you for your post. I believe this is just how my H feels. He told me it is easy now to love me this new way. He is getting fullfillment out of meeting my needs, he is enjoying being a nicer, better person. We are communicating better than ever, which I always thought we communicated just fine, but obviously not. We deal with control in our M, I'm very passive so it seemed to work, but it became unhealthy, I guess the healthier I got, the more unhealthy I was feeling about his control, he has so come around, it peeks its evil head in sometimes, but I communicate with him, and we work through it. I sent my letter of NC, my H and I feel really good about it, I also sent a copy to OM S, I recommend this to all, that way there is no desire for OP S to open it, avoid the LB. My H signed it and ensured the OM W that it was the same as his. No sentiments, just the facts, it was an A and a mistake. Today is going to be a good day. I'm not a cold person at all, so it was hard to write knowing it would hurt him, but it will play in his W favor, she can put him back together so to speak.

hi VR, let me introduce myself. I'm the OW and BS. I haven't posted in weeks, but I've been reading. Your story is me- except my H doesn't know I had an A for 5.5 years...A couple of weeks ago the OM tried to end it. I then did NC. The withdrawal was hell. I tried, and then he called, and I picked up the phone- big mistake. We talked for a couple of days. We're both married with kids, and neither of us are leaving our families. However, we still seem to be meeting the EN the spouse didn't. I have told my H which needs he's not meeting. I don't think he can meet them. He really doesn't think it's a big deal, because he loves me with all his heart, etc. That should be enough for me! Women are so different...

JG, be completely honest with your husband, if there is good communication going on, you will prevent yourself from talking to him. It will be impossible for your H to meet your needs with the OM active in your M. He can not deposit into your love bank, while you continue the A. If you have the freedom, you will stay in the A, get rid of your freedom, tell your S. The relief is amazing. There is many worldy consequences, but you can work through them. Cut off your ties that bind. NO CONTACT!!!!! Get rid of your phone. I had to put my cell in my H car just to relieve some temptation when I was going through withdrawals. He would go to work in the morning, and I had no way to contact my Former ( i say that proudly) OM. Will power, it is tough, turn your mess around, make your wrongs right. The M and commitment is what is real, not the fog of an A. Good luck, God Bless you and give you strength.

VR< thankyou for your reply. I'm a bit of a mess right now. Is the A still going on? Not like it used to. It's kinda dying a slow death. Meanwhile, my H feels he is meeting my EN. He's been the same for 20 years. It seems that I'm the one who has changed some where over the years. Maybe he's not for me anymore. How do you know? I told my girlfriend, that if I met my H today, he probably wouldn't be for me. I was 20 and a virgin when we met, I fell madly in love with him then. Stayed like that for around 15 years...Can ya tell I'm in the fog big time? OM's M is also a mess-he's got $ issues, ya know what? His M is not my problem. He and his W had problems way before me. I know from this site that it starts with me and NC. I admit, I love OM. I wish my H had some of his qualities...well, just a couple...

jetgirl, not to highjack vr's thread, but your marriage doesn't have a hope in hell in ever being fulfilling as long as you continue to lie to your H. No marriage can thrive when its based on lies and deceit. Believe me, that prevents the intimacy that is necessary for good marriage. I would look at your own behavior as the source of the problem.

Also, your H has a right to know about your affair so he can protect himself from you. You are dangerous to him. You have no right to withhold facts from him about HIS LIFE. To do so is cruel and manipulative. He might not want to be married to such a person and that is his right.

well, I'm sure my behavior has been part of the problem. I've been settling for years, where my EN's are concerned. But I am committed to my H and kids, and will start NC now. I wanted to do it weeks ago.

jg, did you hear ML, that is exactly the truth of it, very point blank to ML, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> What you also don't realize is your H, is meeting some of your needs, him and your OM are sharing them, so if you was to cut H off you would see the grass is not greener. Your M doesn't stand a chance with this going on, you are completely trying to justify your A, when you say, OM M was in trouble before the A. So your A isn't going on like it use to well I'm sure your H would be pleased to know that, NOT!!!! NO CONTACT!!! You feel when you are in the fog you love the OM, but you have nothing real, it is all fantasy, it is all fun and no responsibilities, only positive. That is not real life, real life is $ problems, like with OM and his M, he doesn't have $ problems with you. You are using each other as a crutch to get through what is real, your M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop the addiction, NO CONTACT!!!! Trust me, will power, you can do this.
ML is right your H deserves to know, stop making lousy decisions for his life without his in knowing. You do have to pay the consequences for this, things will be rough, but know that God forgives all sins, it is only worldly consequences you must face.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jetgirl:
<strong> well, I'm sure my behavior has been part of the problem. I've been settling for years, where my EN's are concerned. But I am committed to my H and kids, and will start NC now. I wanted to do it weeks ago. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"well, I'm sure my behavior has been part of the problem."

Jetgirl, is that the understatement of the year? Yes, I do believe that an affair probably does not help a marriage very much.

And you know what also does not help? Your continued lies and deceit about it. Its' not enough to just quit contact, you have to tell your H. He has to know this and you have no right to withhold this from him.

To do so is cruel and manipulative beyond words. You will only be keeping him in your marriage WITH A LIE. He has a right to know what is going on in his own life. To withhold this information is only compounding the cruelty.

HONESTY is the solution to adultery, not MORE LYING.

You go Jet Girl,
Maybe your H doesn't know your EN, how can he fulfill them if he doesn't know them. My H and I are sitting down to day to figure this stuff out, we took worksheets from MB and are going to fill them out. Good luck to you, if you come clean, it will make NC so much easier. I know it is a scary thought, but admission, repent, forgiveness.

VR,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> my H is so afraid of seeing or talking to anybody who knows about the A, we have went to drastic ridiculous measures to avoid everybody.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As I said the feelings of humiliation are stong when you are in the presence of those that know. In extreme cases he may even feel a bit of paranoia and think that more people know.

Not sure about the stuffing the feelings down. Men like to do that but most counselors would say to deal with it. Discuss it. Don't fall back into the pre-A patterns.

What were pre-A issues for both of you?? What patterns were you in? Are you back to them?

cwmac

VR, you're so sweet. Thankyou..it's not easy admitting the A, the lies. I will take it one day at a time. Do you think you can share with me how you told your H about the A?

hi jetgal

Mmmmm,why dont you divorce your H if he is that much a bad person to be cheated on for 25% of his marriage???

U will not , because He is meeting some ( i bet 60 to 75 %) of your ENs. That bugger OM will ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> he is a serial cheater) come , tell nice things and sleep with you . Will he be paying bills????

Go with ur OM, he will throw you like Shi*t and go with the next chik. I can assure that as a former OM myself.U are in deep shi*t .
if your H finds himself,ur M is doomed . So confess ASAP.
dhanush

JG, I was just about to share, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
My OM wasn't letting go, he is still today in the fog and hurting his very devoted S. I tried to break it off, honeslty since it began, but his persistance broke me every time, I was weak and in the fog as well. The A had taken everything out of me, his S was my BF, I had lost her, and my guilt was eating my from the inside out. I woke my H up and I told him, for 5 months I have been having an A, with his BF. His reaction was violent and angry, he has never before struck me, and he also was very violent with the OM, luckily it was only material things he got his hands to cause damage for OM. I felt instant relief even in my terror of my violent H, I felt the relief. The next week was so bad his behavior was so possesive, but I'm a self punisher so I took it all. His anger left and it has been 2 months since dday, and he is trusting me more and more. He has done a complete turn around in his behavior. He is meeting my EN on such a level now, that I could ring his neck for not doing for 9 years before. When I set him down, I gave him the opportunity to ask me anything, I gave him honest answers to every question he asked. You live with such lies for so long and it feels so free-ing to give the truth. I'm still not in a happy place, but for me I know it is because I'm so ashamed of my behavior, she was my BF, we had a great relationship, but for 5 months of it, I betrayed her in the worst way. It is a hard thing to come to grips with, how bad of a person one can become just to fulfill an EN. I'm extremely remorseful. Tell him, you need to. My H was so shook, it is almost like I have another man in my house, but he still has all his same great qualities I loved in him before, now he just has more, and he is showing me the love I always wanted him to. YOU CAN DO IT!!!! But do it quick because my on line services will be cut off by Monday and I want an update. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm sorry did I just make your situation about me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />