I am the OW - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Yes, I am the enemy to you all. Trust me I feel it. I'm trying to do the right thing now and I'm needing help with my NC letter. I haven't really found anything on the site to give me too much direction and I want to do this right, and have it make an impact. Thanks for any words of wisdom.

The only thing I can say is to be truly honest. As a BS that's one thing that's important to us all. Also it would be helpful to hear your point of view about all of this. It might help BS's to understand.

very regretful -

You are not the enemy. In fact, you are an extemely brave individual who seems to be trying to do everything in your power to end your destructive behavior. Because along with hurting others, your actions have hurt yourself - as you probably already know, which is probably why you are here.

Read the concepts on this site. Keep posting. You have started out great - by asking a direct question about something you do not fully understand. You will find lots of support and love here. I think that is what this place is - a place to come and begin to heal.

A NC letter should stress your desire to end the relationship, the A (affair). The letter should also state your intention of NC. Because, you see, even with YOUR best effort and YOUR desire to end the A, the OP (Other Person) may not be so inclined. Ultimately, you need to realize that you can only control you. So, you need to be willing to maintain NC, even if the OP continues to try to contact you. That is a HUGE commitment and will take lots of strength, focus, and support.

A few questions to help us all understand your situation better. Are you married? Kids? I assume the OP is married, since you are the OW. Do they have kids? How long has the A been going on? What made you decide to end the A?

Enquiring minds want to know! You are in the right place. Keep keeping on.

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

SS

You're no longer an enemy - and that term doesn't seem right anywway. Alien abductee, maybe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There are sample NC letters around, but in essence, you should cover these items, simple and to the point:

The affair was wrong
Apologize to your affair partner for participating in it
Apologize to the affair partner's wife
Specify that no contact of any kind can ever occur again. Period.

If you are married, recommit to your marriage and have your H sign the letter as well. Allow him to mail it.

[ May 13, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]

Cyn, I plan to be honest, my H and I have made a pack to be completely honest about this situation. Would you believe I have issues. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> This is something I found in a book, ironicly enough Power of A Praying Wife, this best describes my frame of mind before and during the A. I was feeling a dispair that paraylzed all good decison making. I was experiencing a degree of hopelessness and lack of fulfillment that causes a person to give up trying to do what's right. I was experiencing such a build up of a negative emotion day after day, year after year, that I needed something wonderful, that I could no longer pretend to have in my H. I was tortured with a loneliness that left me longing for anyone who would look into my soul and see me. It took me by complete surprised, I didn't even realize I was lacking, until I was being fullfilled by this other man.

SS, thank you for the kind words, I am in a very dark place with myself right now. The shame is tearing me up, the guilt, the sorrow. I'm a mess. Yes, I am married, 2B's, he is M with a G&B. The A lasted about 4 to 5 months. Text book A. I can't believe when I read some of the articles, it is all my story. How it starts, the addiction, the FOG. Which he is still in, and poses such danger for me. I am strong now, but I find it to be such a hinderance, and it is so hurting him and his family. My decision to end the A was just the need to come clean, to repent to God, to stop all the bad behavior. I was drained from all the lies and cover ups. It lost it's charm, and I seen in plain view the damage it was causing his family. The selfish act was no longer worth the pain I was causing so many others. You know, I read some of the forums, and it breaks my heart for all of you who are on the other end. I read some of the doubts people have, follow your gut. If it looks like a duck, it is a duck. My H would have never seen the A. He has just now joined my marriage. It shook him to a degree in which he has changed his entire life around for the better of us. So everybody out there, go with plan A, make it work, you can be more appealing than the other, what you have, your M is real, an A is all illusion, and fantasy, stick it out, win them back, and then love them, like they desire to be loved.

You said...

"I am the OW"

[/b]You are actually the WW as far as most of us are concerned.

And we would love to help you build your marriage back up.

Pep[/b]

Very Regretful,
Welcome! You are not the enemy! Having said that please uderstand that there are a diverse group of people on this board that are at various stages in the infidelity cycle. Those at the beginning are in general less tolerant.

You are off to a great start. I wish my wife had come to me and revealed the affair without me having to have stumbled upon it and then having to have played detective for several months.

Your actions will help re-establish trust a bit faster for your H than if he had discovered it and you had denied, denied & denied some more (typical WS discovery response)for many weeks, moths or years.

Your another step ahead by your desire to actively pursue a NC letter. This will also help your H with trust issues.

Concerning NC letter, I have a few suggestions: Make it very business like. State the simple facts that you have made a major mistake, that you have hurt you H very much and that you are staying with your H and the marriage. Then state that bc of the affair and the broken trust you must never have contact with OM again. Ask the OM to please follow your wishes and that if he does contact you you will immediately tell your H. Sign your name.

As I said earlier the tone should be factual. NO EMOTION. No I'm sorry that we'll never be friends again or be able to share our blah blah blah. I wouldn't even use "dear" in the salutation nor would I say "have a good life" or "I wish you and your family the best".

Next step to help your H is to allow him to inform the OM's W of the affair. It should be done in a non vengeful manner. She deserves to know the truth. This is another important step for your H's trust becausae by being willing to do this you show that you are no longer willing to protect the OM. This will show that you have H's well being above OM's

How is your H doing, btw?

Post a bit about H and his reaction and current behavior.

Keep posting and good luck,

cwmac

Let your H send it (so he knows it went)

[ May 13, 2004, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]

worthatry, I just read your profile, I'm in tears for you. I'm sure you have recovered, then again, you are still posting??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> D breaks my heart, infidelity does, I can't believe I am forever a cheater. I can't believe I'm the WW, the OW. I much prefer your take the alien ubductee. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I love your advise for the letter, having my H have a part in it. thank you.

Thank you for your post veryregretful, I appreciate hearing from someone on the other side of this painful situation.

I think sometimes as BS's we forget how painful the A is for ALL involved.

Good luck to you and your H, I wish you a swift recovery! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pepperband,
I guess either of them are better than what she is calling me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Very regretful,

I too would like to welcome you and mention that I am glad you have chosen to do the right thing for all involved.Ask your husband(H) is he would like to come here too,if that's ok with you.We can help him with all the pain and emotion he is going through.He is one "lucky" guy in that you have "seen the light" and are going to put a stop to this bad and hurtful behavior.Many of us have yet to have the A ended like me.You can have a better marriage than ever if you are both willing to try and DO.

And don't consider yourself always a cheater.You can move beyond this and be a much better person so you will not have to carry around the stigma of Infidelity.But I hope you can really commit to that.It is very hard for WS's(wayward spouses) to do the no contact.This will be your true test of will.If you stay with us we will help get you there.

O

[ May 13, 2004, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

cwmac,
Don't give me too much credit, we would have been busted by his S. My H, never would have figured it out, he has been in his own world for 8 years of marriage. However, he has suddenly turned into Mr. Wonderful. So, from my side y'all, it is hard to take, for 8 years I was neglected, and now I have done something completely out of character and I'm feeling like the worst person in the world and he all of the sudden is sweet to me. Is it real, this instant change in him, does it wake you up that much, for a full about face???? I have been an awesome wife, believe it or not, I'm loving, submissive, I stay at home with our children, I'm a Godly woman, believe it or not, and I'm gorgeous, just joking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> So bussiness like with the letter, facts only, I can do that. Thank you. His spouse knows, first person my H called, after he exploded on me, and the OM. My H, is struggling, he has always been my rock, and now he is very insecure, not an attractive sight, he tries so hard to contain it. Our communication has grown so much. He tells me, I'm having a bad insecure day, call me alot today. I tell him, if your going to drive by on lunch at least stop and say Hi. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We live 25 minutes from his work. I'm so sorry for what I have turned him into. He checks the phones everyday, but beleive me I know how to delete, and get rid of the last call so there is no *69. He has video taped the house. I understand it all, I don't like it, but I understand it, and any WS will if they are done with the A.

Octobergirl,
How nice of you to be so sweet to me, when you are still in the midst of all the pain. Plan A will work, I see how it can for the OM S in my case. The A, is an illusion of a life that is without any responsibility, and worries, it has no lasting strength. What is real is the committment of marriage. It is truly a fog we WS is in, an addiction, but I'm stopping it, and I'm a very weak insecure individual, if I can do this, any schmuck can.

VR,

you said..
<blockquote>quote:<hr />However, he has suddenly turned into Mr. Wonderful..... Is it real, this instant change in him, does it wake you up that much, for a full about face???? <hr /></blockquote>My personal experience and having been on MB for just over 2 years is that yes 9 times out of 10 the changes are there for good.

Keep in mind that most couples have a "honeymoon" period after DDay. The sex is great, the communication is great etc.

Everyones stages are different however sometimes around the 4-6 month mark the BS can have difficulty. Try to be ther for him.

The other day I posted to someone about the mental reactions, reactions. I'll try to find it and link you to it.

In short it said that finding out about a S's A can be so shocking that it can cause a mild form of PSSD. There are "uncontrollable" flashbacks that bring the emotions right back with them.

cwmac

PS Don't feel too bad about not telling S until you were on the verge of discovery. IMHO, it's still better for him that you told him instead of him suspecting and then you continually lieing.

[ May 13, 2004, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]

Two things. First, Pep, you are incorrigible! I don't know how to spell it, but I mean it. You crack me up. Revirgination . . .

And you, missy, must NOT downplay the forward steps you have taken to correct a wrong. AND, what's done is done is done. You cannot undo it. You solve nothing by continuously beating yourself over the head with your mistakes. We all make them, some larger than others.

It is understandable that this soon out you will be full of guilt and shame, but I encourage you to work on letting that go. Use what you have learned in positive ways - post here, help others, be a better wife and mother, be a happier you. Don't use all that energy for self abuse.

That is something my FWH has learned in counseling. Our society has an idea of "balancing the scales," that for certain crimes certain times are required for suffering. I just don't see the point in that. Do positive stuff instead! No scales need to be balanced. That is subjective, and can cause destructive cycles of communication and self-esteem.

Anyway, just some food for the brain. I am glad others mentioned including your H. That is important. Make sure you are making the choices for YOU, though, not just to make H happy. If they are YOUR decisions, they will stick like glue. That is my experience.

You rock, girlfriend! We are here for you.

SS

Very Regretful -

I saw your post and had to say Hello and Welcome to MB.

Please do not feel like the enemy. If you resolve yourself to the MB principles you will have a wonderful M.

It took guts to come here. I'm glad you did.

cwmac
I want to believe my H is sincere, I do believe it, he is putting so much faith in me, I must trust in him. I know I wouldn't have been wearing these shoes had he kicked it up a notch a year ago. Thank you for the link, that would be great. I think he is repressing everything, so I wouldn't doubt that in a few months it is hurtful again. Yeah, I told him. Ouch, that was tough. But I did it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Very regretful,
Give him the benefit of the doubt. What was his pre-A issue(s)? What were yours?

Remember my first post when I said...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Having said that please understand that there are a diverse group of people on this board that are at various stages in the infidelity cycle. Those at the beginning are in general less tolerant. <hr /></blockquote>In your posts you referenced how you felt your H ignored you and didn't meet certain needs. One item was...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I know I wouldn't have been wearing these shoes had he kicked it up a notch a year ago. <hr /></blockquote>I really mean this in the nicest most non-confrontational way possible. Your statement above indicates that to a certain degree you blame your H for the affair. (Please forgive me if I'm misinterpreting) This is a rationalization of why you had the affair.

Both you and your H brought pre-A issues to the relationship that is true. Normally both people in the marriage are unhappy. The result was that you made the choice, a very bad one, to have an affair. Your H, who may have been just as unhappy, did not.

Their were other choices ie. marriage counseling, divorce and/or sitting down with H early in your A relationship to say, " honey, I'm so unhappy in this marriage because of __________ and I think you are , too. As a matter of fact I'm so unhappy that I have secretly been having lunch (or whatever) with Mr So & So. I'm turning to him for the _______ I don't get from you."

I point this out as 1) a MB recovery fact 2) to save you from getting some angry response from a BS who has just learned the truth (it's called getting 2x4'd) 3) to help you help your H heal.

cwmac <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

cwmac,
I have just fired my therapist, you are hired. I absolutely try to justify my mistakes. I also usually realize it, and then can rationalize, but thank you for pointing it out to me. Really thank you. My H totally blames himself for my bad behavior, and I told him I want to be held accountable, it was my choice.

VR -

It sound like you are sincere in your regret. It is the first step in recovery. Take care of yourself, you can and will make your marriage work. I am happy to see you are out of the fog and willing to do a NC letter. Be very firm in your letter and tell the other man your feelings on the affair and the fantasy of it. Hopefully he will stop contacting him and if his BS is doing a good plan A he will realize what he is giving up. It was a classic A and he needs to see that you WANT it to end.

Take care of yourself and remember that God loves you even in the midst of your mistake. You have found a great place for support.

You are in the right place, vr! Welcome to Marriage Builders. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

VR,

I wish that I had as much insight when I first found this site as you do right now. It took a lot of 2x4's and intense pressure from the people here to get me to be honest about myself, the A and my M to my H.

You are in a great place right now, and with your attitude things look very promising!

Did you go or are you going through a period of withdrawl from OMM since you ended the A? From what you said you were sickened by the whole situation, and that is why you ended it. If there was or is no withdrawl or no need for "closure" of the A, that is such a plus because there is so much less of a chance of a setback in your recovery.

After D-Day I still maintained secret contact w/OMM for another six weeks, so of course it took that much longer for me to get my act together. Then when I finally established NC, I went through the worst withdrawls, I was miserable and resentful of my H. Hence, recovery didn't really start for us until almost 3 months after D-Day. What a complete waste of time!

VR, Please don't beat yourself up forever for the mistake you made. You sound like a really nice lady. Forgive yourself and allow your H time to forgive you as well.

mrsx

[ May 13, 2004, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: mrsx ]

very regretful,
Welcome...it is good to hear the other side of the story. It also took a lot of courage to come here...could you give my H's OW a call? Ha! Ha!

One question...did you avoid the WH's W through the whole thing?

My H's OW will not talk to me for anything. I've spoken to her nicely the two brief conversations we have had, but other than that she will not talk to me at all. Is there any way to break through to her?

VR,

You said...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I have just fired my therapist, you are hired. <hr /></blockquote>I'm on the job! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> My H totally blames himself for my bad behavior, and I told him I want to be held accountable, it was my choice. <hr /></blockquote>That's one of the stages he'll go thru. Tell him that other male BSs have felt the same way. It's not his fault.

He'll show anger. He may also show indifference at one point, especially at that 4-8 month mark I mentioned previously.

He probably feels very lonely right now. Men tend to keep the the pain of the infidelity inside. They don't tell a soul. I believe that female BS tend to want to talk about it with at least on confidant. Try to get him to come here. He'll have feelings of humiliation and emasculation if others know.

BTW, I see you've met MrsX. I was going to introduce the two of you but I see I'm too late.

She said...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> It took a lot of 2x4's and intense pressure from the people here to get me to be honest about myself, the A and my M to my H.
<hr /></blockquote>I have a 2x4 that has an impression of her head right here next to my laptop!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Then again there are also my FWW friends, KiwiJ and Lisa103. All can help you if you need it but it doesn't sound as though you're having withdrawal.

Tell us more about H and specifically how he's doing.

cwmac

[ May 14, 2004, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: cwmac ]

I hope you aren't the "enemy." I'm in the same boat as you, too. Keep your head up, I'm hoping my scarlet letter washes out someday.
Ksnatie

MrsX, I did go through withdrawls, and I absolutely wanted closer. My H was doing all the right things, he behaved exactly like Plan A is suppose to go. He is a very wise man, I stepped out of the fog almost immediatly, I guess I had been out of the fog before DDay. Like the articles say, it was more of a hinderance than a enjoyment at this time. I wanted my life back. Somebody said,or I read somewhere, that if you give the WS the option he will end the A with a Cruise. That cracked me up, because that is what my heart desired, closer, perfect closer. My H kept a close eye on me so it wasn't possible. My H has forgiven me, I don't feel he is truly dealing with the A, but I'm willing to help him through it in any way. IL him. It was such a big mistake. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I had a really good day yesterday, for the first time I started feeling a glimmer of hope for happiness. I have taken a few steps that I needed to take for myself so I can feel better about myself, and it worked. Praise God!!! I'm still so shamed to even use his name. I know God has forgiven me, but it is hard to come straight to him, I'm full of this sin, and so incredibly ashamed.

cwmac, great you have the job, now I will be needing your home phone and your address. J/K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
My H, has told nobody, he feels it is vital to our recovery, he doesn't feel anybody will understand the A, they don't have the full story. I'm respecting his wishes, it is hard, nobody in my life knows, I have only one friend to talk to and she is just a sounding board. Although this has made it wonderful for my H and I, we are now having great conversations. He doesn't want to hear anything about it, or them, I say them because we was very close to the entire family. He has let me talk about them though recently, he feels safe now, he knows it is more about the family I miss, then about OM. I'm no longer having withdrawls, it is done for me, and I just want to repair the damage. My H is a very strong man, he is doing okay. He struggles day to day, we are completely honest with each other now. It has been hard for him because I have been in such a depression, he has been unsure, if it was because I missed OM, or the A, or I wanted to leave. I constantly reassured him, but was honest, I did miss the OM, but after withdrawls, I just missed the OM and his wife and family and what we all once had. She was BTW, my very BF. I have dealt with all the emotions of the A, and now I'm dealing with the depth of Betrayel on my part to her. It is crazy how selfish an A is. I've lost so much in her, for something that amounted to nothing. It was so not worth it!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> My H and I are doing some of the worksheets from MB this weekend. We are both looking forward to it. We are going to make it!!!

Hurt,
I would love to place a call to your OW, the tramp. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just a little WW humor. The OM S, was my very BF. I have had contact with her a couple of times since DDay. Is your H A still going on?? Maybe she can't face you because of that. IMO if she was any kind of person with any kind of feelings she would want to express some kind of regret, or maybe she is over come with guilt. I know the guilt of all the pain I have caused my BF is what has had me in a state of depression for the past 2 months.
If your H isn't willing to give an NC letter, his loyalties are still with her, and that is not good. I'm sending one out today, one addressed to her and one to him, so he knows now there is no more loyalty to him. I think it is very important for the recovery of the marriage. How good would it make you feel for him to send one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And mean it.

Hope
It was a text book A. Unfortunetly It sounds like the OM is still in the fog. I wrote a good NC letter, my H approved. This was great closer for him I feel. SO I highly recommend one. I can see the relief in him. I'm hoping it will lift the fog of the OM. A good Plan A works, my H did it, and didn't even realize it. Stick to Plan A everybody.

cwmac said:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I have a 2x4 that has an impression of her head right here next to my laptop!!
<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> yea and my head still has the impression of the 2x4 as well! hehehe!

VR, this is a great place to be to help you with recovery, if it wasn't for MB I would probably still be having an A. Stay w/us and let me know if there is any way I can be of support~!

mrsx

mrsX, yeah you can help, take the 2x4 away from cwmac, I'm ducking, OUCH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I read your profile, it looks great, don't you wish you could delete the A, and Dday and all the stuff that went with???? I've been M 9 years, 2B's, and IL my H. I'm not head over heels, but IL him. I can't believe the OM S didn't find out you or your H didn't feel the need to tell?. I was BF with OM S, yeah that makes me double bad. I just apologized to her because if you aren't aware evidently it doesn't go over well having an A with your BF S, who knew. I'm not down playing it at all, I do feel like the worst person in the world for it. Humor is how I handle stress. My lack of self control really cost me where she is concerned, I can repare my marriage, but not the friendship, it is lost forever. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Welcome VeryRegretful,

I am glad you're here! It's SO encouraging to see some OW and WS with the intelligence and courage to end it the right way. I am also impressed at how understanding you are being of your BH's feelings and insecurities!

I wish the OW in my situation, and/or my WS, were more like you. I hope your WH realizes how lucky he is. Send him here for support. We'd love to help BOTH of you through this.

I can't believe it but I actually feel like giving an OW a hug LOL - that's a first! But it's easy when it's a FORMER OW with the decency and courage to do the right thing! You will NOT forever be a cheater - you aren't that anymore IMO.

[ May 14, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]

Very Regretful!

Now I'm really impressed!

In your response to Hurt, you said:

"How good would it make you feel for him to send one. And mean it." (regarding sending the no contact letter to OW)

THAT is what I'm holding out for! I will never again break Plan B prematurely, based on false promises from WH or EVEN because he might begrudgingly agree to do what he needs to do...

I WILL wait until he is SOOOO out of the fog, so disgusted by the adultery, so IN LOVE, MADLY in love with me again, that he voluntarily sends the OW the no contact letter.

THAT is what I REALLY want. I want him to want me so badly that he would gladly do whatever it takes to win me back. And until then he's lost me. I feel so happy right now. And if my WH is smart he will wise up really soon so he can keep this happy, beautiful person in his life!

[ May 14, 2004, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]

meremortal I will take your hug and take it ASAP before you change your mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
You keep holding out for him to end it. I find all of you so STRONG, allowing it to go on, knowing you can't make it stop. I can't imagine being home living life, knowing my S is with another and I must tolerate it and control my emotions to lure him back. From this side though, that works. My H, didn't know about the A until I told him, but he did everything right after that point, he loved me like never before and improved himself for me. He supported me through my depression and withdrawl but not to a degrading level. I have the utmost respect for my H. I trust your plan will work for you. I know that if my OM S will do a good Plan A, with me putting in place the NC she will win him back. I'm so cheering for her. Keep in mind, I had a relationship with the S of the OM. I have so much love for her, so I was giving the A up for her as well. I just wish I could have put it all into perspective in the beginning. Have faith your plan will work. You all have a cheerleader in me. I'm so wanting you all to win!

VR -

You are truly an amazing person. An OW with this kind of attitude is the best to have. You seem to be wanting to make things right and I am very happy for you. Congratulations on making the right steps to make your marriage work. I hope you receive all the support you need.

[ May 14, 2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: hope&faith ]

Yeah I'm amazing. I'm doing things right now, but I did so much bad. I'm in C, she tells me I need to change my internal dialoge, I will feel what I'm thinking, yeah, I'm feeling it. Absolutely I'm trying to right my wrongs, but somethings are irrepairable. The steps I'm taking are helping both my H and I. So much damage to so many, it is hard to recover. I wish everybody on here could have a remorsful WS, I guess it has to run its course.

VR,
Now that I am officially your unofficial therapist. I wanted to let you know that the Dr is in today and has been working on your case. Just sitting here whittling away at a new 2x4 with the initials "VR" on it. Just in case! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sounds like I'll never need to use it but...

You said...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />My H, has told nobody, he feels it is vital to our recovery, he doesn't feel anybody will understand the A, they don't have the full story. I'm respecting his wishes, it is hard, nobody in my life knows, I have only one friend to talk to and she is just a sounding board. Although this has made it wonderful for my H and I, we are now having great conversations. <hr /></blockquote>As I said most male BS do not want anyone to know including family. They do feel emasculated. Since they think like men (duh) they put the A into primarily a sexual connotation. If they told their best buddy, the buddy wouldn't understand that the A, whether EA or PA, was to the WW primarily for emotional reasons. They'd have the stereotypical ideas of, "oh, you couldn't take care of the little woman in the bedroom dept, huh."

Does your best friend know the whole truth? Does your H know that she knows? If so your friend may receive a bit of transference anger from your H.

For example, in my sitch, my W had a best friend who new of her relationship with OM. After DDay1 (truth on EA), I would occassionally talk to her just to see if Plan A was working with the wife. She'd say yes but ,"stop talking about the OM."

After DDay2 (truth about PA)I asked my W," did Friend know about the extent of the R and that it was an A?" Wife answered ,"yes." This made me even more upset that I had been given the condescending talk about "stop talking about OM "so later I confronted the Friend. Turns out she only thought they were "good friends."

I think W had been so nervous the night of DDay2 that she wasn't thinking straight.

The upshot is now the friend knows about the A when she really didn't need to. Well guess how I felt for months afterward when I saw the friend? I felt anger towards her. I'd always try to avoid her.

I can remember one instance at a party. I turned a corner and their she was. She was smiling being her typical friendly self. I'll never forget the feelings of humiliation and shame. They flooded over my mind & body in waves. I nearly started to cry. I just walked away. I'm sure she thought," what's wrong with him." It was such a trigger. I got so upset that I had some flashbacks of the "affair video." of course W couldn't understand and was angry at me. We, BSs, know the feelings while FWS, friends & family really have no clue!

Because FWSs can't relate to the feelings I would suggest that your H come to MB at least a few times. Maybe he'll like it maybe he won't. The best thing to me about MB is that as a male BS I know I'm not alone. I have a world where I can talk about the A and how I feel. If I had had to keep all of my questions, comments & vents to my self, I'm sure I would have gone "over the edge."

Stuffing it down indide doesn't work either. In most cases that's the pre-A issue that FWW used as rationalization for the A in the first place.

Just MHO.

cwmac <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

cwmac, Step away from the board. Should I be lying down for this session??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We have S issues, one being the H is impossible to Fullfill. So he is typical male, it was S A. Nope it was all about emotional fullfillent. It isn't my BF that I talk to, she would now be my FBF because it was her H that was my OM. The one I have to talk to is, our Pastors wife. We aren't extremely close, but she is reaching out to me. She knows everything, we was both apart of the church. My H wants to see nobody who knows. You are right on with this. I could rationalize you to pulling out the 2x4, but I won't, because I know better, it was my choice, a really bad choice. We are going to dinner tonight with friends, our first outing. I'm very nervous, I'm not sure how he will react to things, I haven't laughed or been myself at all. It is a depression due to the terrible way I feel about myself, not sadness because I miss the OM. It is also hard going out because we was always with them, the OM and his W, my BF. It was always awesome, the best of times, I so miss them as a couple, I miss them bad. I would love for my H to come on and chat, it will never happen, he just isn't that type of man. He did however say he would like to go to C to help him deal. I'm going to tell him, I think this is better than C, this has helped me more than my Therapist has.

Hi veryregretful.
With all the 'eye contact' that goes on between lovers how did your husband, and your OM's wife not SEE that you two had something going on?

It must have been hard not to look in one another's eyes a bit too long.
Is was hard, being together, wasn't it?

Your quote: "It was always awesome, the best of times, I so miss them as a couple, I miss them bad."

So now you are thinking of the fun you all had; you surely remember also the fear of your mates finding out. True?

Sincerely, Julie

[ May 14, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]

I long for the times before the A, when we was all friends. I do not long for the times during the A. Yes that was incredibly hard. My H would have never seen it, she started questioning it as soon as it began. Sorry not to make that clear. I'm stuck in changing history, I want my friends back, and I don't want the A to have happened. I want the life as we knew it, the 4 of us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

VG,

But, as you stated that life was not very good or you would NOT have had the A. In fact, I suspect you enjoyed your friends because they offered relief from the marriage. Now you have an H willing to change, your goal is to see to it he changes as he wishes, but that those changes please you. Once those changes are made, your goal is to make darn sure your H realizes he is very very happy he made the changes. It is your job to make those changes something HE is happy he made and enjoys making.

I gave someone recently my standard lecture on the difference between guilt and remorse. You don't sound as if the guilt is hanging you up too badly, but I will remind you that guilt is something you have While or before you do something bad. It is supposed to paralyze you so you don't do it.

Remorse is what you have after you have done something you regret deeply, and it is supposed to motivate you to actions that remediate the damage done by something you were NOT guilty enough to stop before you did it.

Got that? I am guessing that as you and your H rebuild this marriage which is often described as "work" here, but can be "fun" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> as well. You will find that your best friend is...YOUR H. That is what is supposed to happen. That doesn't mean you won't be friends or even close friends with another couple, but your BEST friend should always be beside you.

So I understand what you are saying, but I also think you are forgetting why this couple played such an important role before the A (they were a diversion from the problems in the marriage.)

Fix the marriage, and you find your fiends play a different role. Talk with your H about this.

God Bless,

JL

VR,

"Zee Doktor is een."
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Should I be lying down for this session??? <hr /></blockquote>Careful I know what you meant (psychiatrist) but sometimes MB people don't carefully read all of the posts and then they are quick to be judgemental and the flames fly. (Right? MrsX & KiwiJ)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I could rationalize you to pulling out the 2x4, but I won't, because I know better, it was my choice, a really bad choice. <hr /></blockquote>Nope. Don't need to use the 2x4 yet but now there's one with your initials and it's ready just in the event I start to hear the fog horn going off.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> ...It is a depression due to the terrible way I feel about myself,... <hr /></blockquote>As others have said, you need to claim your actions but try to let go of the guilt. I know easier said than done.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> It was always awesome, the best of times, I so miss them as a couple <hr /></blockquote>Best to just forget about it. Look to the future bc unfortunately can't ever go back to the way things were. (Looking to the future is something I've had trouble with as well)

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I would love for my H to come on and chat, it will never happen, he just isn't that type of man. <hr /></blockquote>I wasn't that kind of man either until I stumbled onto my W's A. Unfortunatley she reacted in the typical WS way: deny, deny & deny to the point where they try to make you believe you are a paranoid, jealous lunatic.

It's funny how there seems to be a different reaction between BSs who suspected their S's A and those who are told of the A out of the blue. (Seems to apply to the men especially; probably bc in general we're not as communicative as you ladies)

Your H is just like MrsX's, Lisa103's, KiwiJ's and others. They were all told by their Ss about the A. They don't seem to want to come here.

Conversely the BS who suspected, came here searching for answers to their S's behavior, the A, the fog,etc. We've gotten used to posting to help others and to compare notes with other male BSs so we don't think our situations are strange or different than others.

A suggestion: Maybe buy some of the marriage improvement books ie His Needs Her Needs, Men are from Mars..., See if he'll read them with you or read him passages as you unwind in the evening.

Speaking of books! You said...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> We have S issues, one being the H is impossible to Fullfill. So he is typical male, it was S A. <hr /></blockquote>I just finished Mars & Venus in the Bedroom. It's very good and will help the two of you reconnect and figure out the S issues. Tell your H that it'll get him more S and I'm sure he'll be at the bookstore within the hour!!

Gotta go. Have a good date night with the other couple. Remember "baby steps, baby steps, baby steps...he said in his best Bill Murray impersonation.

cwmac

I, too, am impressed with the sense of remorse, openness, and interest in rebuilding your marriage. All the current BSs on the site dream for spouses like you. I treated my WH like gold before I found out, after, and for months and months until he moved out...and he was always the most upright, integrity driven, Christian man I have ever known, and now...he is so lost.

Anyway, I wanted to respond to a question you posed about your H making a total about face, and questioning the sincerity and permanency of that change.

Let me share that I was disrespectful, caustic, angry, controlling, and the OPPOSITE of submissive. I was living totally contrary to God's command for a wife.

And I assumed this was a "dynamic" that worked for us. It was stupid, immature, and completely ridiculous to think that my treatment of H would be acceptable to him, or any man for that matter, but I did. I just thought, hey, I wear the pants in the family, and he is alright with that. And I lose my temper and say mean, disrespectful things...but he knows I do not mean it.

I ASSumed all of that because my H did not display his unhappiness the same way I did. In other words, if I was unhappy, trust me, EVERYONE knew about it. My mouth was out of control...and I inflicted a lot of damage with my tongue (I obviously had not read the book of James, and heard the analogy of the mouth being compared to the pits of hell). When he was unhappy, he just withdrew. He pulled all tha pain, and anger, and dissapointment inside of himself, where it sat and festered. And he did not say a word...but he withdrawal a little. But I just say that as him being tired, or stressed, or surrending to my controlling ways.

When I found out about the A, a giant, 2 x 1 million hit me smack dab in the forehead, and I was so shocked into reality...that it took my breath away.

When my H came home from an international trip and told me he did not love me...I was shocked.
One day I was hurting so badly, that I prayed fervently for God to help me. I happened to turn on the Christian radio station, and heard a focus on the family broadcast. It was a guest speaker, Emerson Eggerichs, and he was talking about how women need love, and men need respect. He talked about Ephesians 5, and all the things the bible says about marital relationships.

And in that moment, I cried and cried and cried.

The fact was, I DID feel immense love and respect for my H. He was my hero. I admired every single thing about him. Really and truly. But I naively thought my careless treatment of him was ok with him, because he loved me unconditionally. No matter what. And he HAD to know I admired and respected him, right?

God told me WRRRRROOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

And in that moment, He changed my heart. And it wasn't false or fake or me acting a certain way to keep my H...it was sincere, because I did truly respect and admire him, I had just done a terrible job showing him.

A WEEK LATER, I found out about the A.

And in all of that, I treated him respectfully, NEVER saying a mean or cruel thing about him, or her, or the situation. Just tried to reason with him to give our M another shot.

I now hope and pray those several months while he was here, experiencing what life with the changed me could be like, that it planted some seeds that will someday bring him home.

The A, dismantling of our M, and all the pain and betrayal and confessions, and finally, communication about what he was feeling, enduring before he committed the A, all of it, was out there, and it was what I needed to finally see what part I had played to help us get to where we were at that point.

And maybe, it was realized too late.

But I bet, it was a permanent change.

cwmac, What's up doc?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I talked with my H last night about posting, he feels he has dealt with this and it is done, no sense in talking about it everyday, which we don't, we have only talked about it, maybe 5 times. He feels this will just fester old wounds. It has been 2 months since dday, is he truly over it? He is a very strong man, who is sensible, but can he really go on and be okay? This was his BF, my OM, can he really have worked through all that betrayal?

JL, I wouldn't say our F old friends offered relief to my M, they brought joy to it. My H wouldn't socialize with anybody, family or friends, so it was a new thing for us, something I had been craving our entire M. thank you for clearing up the guilt/remorse thing, I'm extremely remorsful. I have always felt my H was my BF unfortunetly he didn't feel the same, but he is now making me a priority, his new BF. He was my BF, but she was my female BF, and that is what I miss. I'm really stuck with wanting to turn back time. Is that weak of me, and does that mean I'm not taking responsiblity for my actions, I so just wish life back, and then I could correct my M the right way, through communication.
cwmac, my H is so afraid of seeing or talking to anybody who knows about the A, we have went to drastic ridiculous measures to avoid everybody. Everyday he trusts me more, and it is getting better, I feel his pain and I feel the shame, every time he questions me or we avoid a situation. Today we are sitting down with MB worksheets, I can't wait. I think we will both benefit so much from this.

ChristyV,
thank you for your post. I believe this is just how my H feels. He told me it is easy now to love me this new way. He is getting fullfillment out of meeting my needs, he is enjoying being a nicer, better person. We are communicating better than ever, which I always thought we communicated just fine, but obviously not. We deal with control in our M, I'm very passive so it seemed to work, but it became unhealthy, I guess the healthier I got, the more unhealthy I was feeling about his control, he has so come around, it peeks its evil head in sometimes, but I communicate with him, and we work through it. I sent my letter of NC, my H and I feel really good about it, I also sent a copy to OM S, I recommend this to all, that way there is no desire for OP S to open it, avoid the LB. My H signed it and ensured the OM W that it was the same as his. No sentiments, just the facts, it was an A and a mistake. Today is going to be a good day. I'm not a cold person at all, so it was hard to write knowing it would hurt him, but it will play in his W favor, she can put him back together so to speak.

hi VR, let me introduce myself. I'm the OW and BS. I haven't posted in weeks, but I've been reading. Your story is me- except my H doesn't know I had an A for 5.5 years...A couple of weeks ago the OM tried to end it. I then did NC. The withdrawal was hell. I tried, and then he called, and I picked up the phone- big mistake. We talked for a couple of days. We're both married with kids, and neither of us are leaving our families. However, we still seem to be meeting the EN the spouse didn't. I have told my H which needs he's not meeting. I don't think he can meet them. He really doesn't think it's a big deal, because he loves me with all his heart, etc. That should be enough for me! Women are so different...

JG, be completely honest with your husband, if there is good communication going on, you will prevent yourself from talking to him. It will be impossible for your H to meet your needs with the OM active in your M. He can not deposit into your love bank, while you continue the A. If you have the freedom, you will stay in the A, get rid of your freedom, tell your S. The relief is amazing. There is many worldy consequences, but you can work through them. Cut off your ties that bind. NO CONTACT!!!!! Get rid of your phone. I had to put my cell in my H car just to relieve some temptation when I was going through withdrawals. He would go to work in the morning, and I had no way to contact my Former ( i say that proudly) OM. Will power, it is tough, turn your mess around, make your wrongs right. The M and commitment is what is real, not the fog of an A. Good luck, God Bless you and give you strength.

VR< thankyou for your reply. I'm a bit of a mess right now. Is the A still going on? Not like it used to. It's kinda dying a slow death. Meanwhile, my H feels he is meeting my EN. He's been the same for 20 years. It seems that I'm the one who has changed some where over the years. Maybe he's not for me anymore. How do you know? I told my girlfriend, that if I met my H today, he probably wouldn't be for me. I was 20 and a virgin when we met, I fell madly in love with him then. Stayed like that for around 15 years...Can ya tell I'm in the fog big time? OM's M is also a mess-he's got $ issues, ya know what? His M is not my problem. He and his W had problems way before me. I know from this site that it starts with me and NC. I admit, I love OM. I wish my H had some of his qualities...well, just a couple...

jetgirl, not to highjack vr's thread, but your marriage doesn't have a hope in hell in ever being fulfilling as long as you continue to lie to your H. No marriage can thrive when its based on lies and deceit. Believe me, that prevents the intimacy that is necessary for good marriage. I would look at your own behavior as the source of the problem.

Also, your H has a right to know about your affair so he can protect himself from you. You are dangerous to him. You have no right to withhold facts from him about HIS LIFE. To do so is cruel and manipulative. He might not want to be married to such a person and that is his right.

well, I'm sure my behavior has been part of the problem. I've been settling for years, where my EN's are concerned. But I am committed to my H and kids, and will start NC now. I wanted to do it weeks ago.

jg, did you hear ML, that is exactly the truth of it, very point blank to ML, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> What you also don't realize is your H, is meeting some of your needs, him and your OM are sharing them, so if you was to cut H off you would see the grass is not greener. Your M doesn't stand a chance with this going on, you are completely trying to justify your A, when you say, OM M was in trouble before the A. So your A isn't going on like it use to well I'm sure your H would be pleased to know that, NOT!!!! NO CONTACT!!! You feel when you are in the fog you love the OM, but you have nothing real, it is all fantasy, it is all fun and no responsibilities, only positive. That is not real life, real life is $ problems, like with OM and his M, he doesn't have $ problems with you. You are using each other as a crutch to get through what is real, your M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop the addiction, NO CONTACT!!!! Trust me, will power, you can do this.
ML is right your H deserves to know, stop making lousy decisions for his life without his in knowing. You do have to pay the consequences for this, things will be rough, but know that God forgives all sins, it is only worldly consequences you must face.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jetgirl:
 well, I'm sure my behavior has been part of the problem. I've been settling for years, where my EN's are concerned. But I am committed to my H and kids, and will start NC now. I wanted to do it weeks ago. <hr /></blockquote>"well, I'm sure my behavior has been part of the problem."

Jetgirl, is that the understatement of the year? Yes, I do believe that an affair probably does not help a marriage very much.

And you know what also does not help? Your continued lies and deceit about it. Its' not enough to just quit contact, you have to tell your H. He has to know this and you have no right to withhold this from him.

To do so is cruel and manipulative beyond words. You will only be keeping him in your marriage WITH A LIE. He has a right to know what is going on in his own life. To withhold this information is only compounding the cruelty.

HONESTY is the solution to adultery, not MORE LYING.

You go Jet Girl,
Maybe your H doesn't know your EN, how can he fulfill them if he doesn't know them. My H and I are sitting down to day to figure this stuff out, we took worksheets from MB and are going to fill them out. Good luck to you, if you come clean, it will make NC so much easier. I know it is a scary thought, but admission, repent, forgiveness.

VR,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> my H is so afraid of seeing or talking to anybody who knows about the A, we have went to drastic ridiculous measures to avoid everybody.<hr /></blockquote>As I said the feelings of humiliation are stong when you are in the presence of those that know. In extreme cases he may even feel a bit of paranoia and think that more people know.

Not sure about the stuffing the feelings down. Men like to do that but most counselors would say to deal with it. Discuss it. Don't fall back into the pre-A patterns.

What were pre-A issues for both of you?? What patterns were you in? Are you back to them?

cwmac

VR, you're so sweet. Thankyou..it's not easy admitting the A, the lies. I will take it one day at a time. Do you think you can share with me how you told your H about the A?

hi jetgal

Mmmmm,why dont you divorce your H if he is that much a bad person to be cheated on for 25% of his marriage???

U will not , because He is meeting some ( i bet 60 to 75 %) of your ENs. That bugger OM will ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> he is a serial cheater) come , tell nice things and sleep with you . Will he be paying bills????

Go with ur OM, he will throw you like Shi*t and go with the next chik. I can assure that as a former OM myself.U are in deep shi*t .
if your H finds himself,ur M is doomed . So confess ASAP.
dhanush

JG, I was just about to share, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
My OM wasn't letting go, he is still today in the fog and hurting his very devoted S. I tried to break it off, honeslty since it began, but his persistance broke me every time, I was weak and in the fog as well. The A had taken everything out of me, his S was my BF, I had lost her, and my guilt was eating my from the inside out. I woke my H up and I told him, for 5 months I have been having an A, with his BF. His reaction was violent and angry, he has never before struck me, and he also was very violent with the OM, luckily it was only material things he got his hands to cause damage for OM. I felt instant relief even in my terror of my violent H, I felt the relief. The next week was so bad his behavior was so possesive, but I'm a self punisher so I took it all. His anger left and it has been 2 months since dday, and he is trusting me more and more. He has done a complete turn around in his behavior. He is meeting my EN on such a level now, that I could ring his neck for not doing for 9 years before. When I set him down, I gave him the opportunity to ask me anything, I gave him honest answers to every question he asked. You live with such lies for so long and it feels so free-ing to give the truth. I'm still not in a happy place, but for me I know it is because I'm so ashamed of my behavior, she was my BF, we had a great relationship, but for 5 months of it, I betrayed her in the worst way. It is a hard thing to come to grips with, how bad of a person one can become just to fulfill an EN. I'm extremely remorseful. Tell him, you need to. My H was so shook, it is almost like I have another man in my house, but he still has all his same great qualities I loved in him before, now he just has more, and he is showing me the love I always wanted him to. YOU CAN DO IT!!!! But do it quick because my on line services will be cut off by Monday and I want an update. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm sorry did I just make your situation about me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

cwmac
pre A issues. you had recommend the book Men are from Mars woman from Venus, and you joked he will get more S, the man can not possible get any more S!!!!!!!!!! I swear he is unfulfillable!!!! Is he an addict, no, but his drive, drives me crazy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I deal with lack of self worth, I was raised by a verbally abusive M and physical as well. My H is controlling, and I'm very passive it seemed to work, but I was becoming more aware of it and not so happy. I'm a SAHM and I'm quite kept. I was never clued in on the finances, and basically asked for permission on everything. He was never cruel, he has always loved me good, but I have never been a priority. He is to the extreme selfish, I don't say that as I have a pity party for myself, it is the truth, I have said our entire M, he is selfish, but it is okay because I am extremely giving. It took its toll. He is a busy man, or shall I say, he has made himself a busy man. He works over, he goes fishing and golfing all the time. We joke, that his bachelor friends are jealous of all the freedom he has. He doesn't go to bars or party, he is an outdoors man, and chooses that. He doesn't like or respect anybody who is important to me, he has attended very few family outings in 11 years of togetherness. I was a lonely woman, I knew I was lonely, but I didn't realize how unhappy I was until my needs were being met by OM. It took me by complete surprise, how happy I felt inside. That is my M story. Are you still awake???
BTW, I head your warning from the last one, my humor sometimes gets the best of me.

VR, thankyou for your reply. One of my fears is that my H would hurt OM...and throw me out, of course. Om's wife knows alittle about the A. Om told her if she calls my H, he'll leave her, done. I guess she still wants him and their M, because she hasn't called my H. I'm not gonna say no way to telling my H, but I don't think TODAY is the day...sometimes I can't believe the path I'm on. I,too have remorse. But honestly, times when my H would be a certain way, I could justify the A in my head. Did u ever feel that way? and do you feel like an OW, or the BS?

Jet girl,

I say this with kindness and in a non judgemental manner:

You said...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> except my H doesn't know I had an A for 5.5 years...A couple of weeks ago the OM tried to end it. I then did NC. The withdrawal was hell. I tried, and then he called, and I picked up the phone- big mistake. <hr /></blockquote>I believe that this pattern will continue for awhile unless you tell your H. You need someone on your side to help you with the addiction of the OM. You need someone to make sure that you stay on NC. You can promise yourself all you want but you'll break NC. Your H will be your sponsor (AA talk which applies since you have an addiction)

The OM? He won't. As long as its convenient for him he'll call, talk or whatever you allow.

How do you know that your H will kick you out? Does he not love you? Is there a pattern of physical abuse? If not I doubt he'll throw you out. Almost every betrayed spouse (BS) on this site has said that at one point and we are all fighting for or working on our maariages.

Let's say he's the 10-20% of BS who will divorce. Shouldn't you let him choose his future. Why live a lie?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Om's wife knows alittle about the A. Om told her if she calls my H, he'll leave her, done. <hr /></blockquote>OM sounds like a great guy. Mr Manipulative.

I'm a male BS so you may not listen to me but please do listen to the female FWS. They've been where you are and where you can go if you give your marriage a real shot. Real shot = being honest and open with H so that you can peel away the layers of lies.

cwmac

VR,

Thanks for the reponse.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> you had recommend the book Men are from Mars woman from Venus, and you joked he will get more S, the man can not possible get any more S!!!!!!!!!! I swear he is unfulfillable!!!! Is he an addict, no, but his drive, drives me crazy.<hr /></blockquote>"Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus" is more of a book on how the two sexes communicate differently, how they process information differently and how thet handle conflict differently

Actually the book for the sex issues is "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom". Both books are by John Gray.

The book will help two different types of wives: the one who thinks her husband wants too much sex and the one who thinks her husband wants too little sex ( Got your attention Mrs X didn't I?)

I heard all of your H's and your issues. BTW, I must need a refresher course or a seminar in Hawaii bc I missed the meaning of SAHM.

Your situation has some similarities with mine.

I was selfish on a number of issues and my wife built up enough resentment that she reacted with the ultimate in selfish behavior, her affair.

I don't know your H but don't assume that because he worked hard that you and the kids weren't a priority. Men are taught that and believe that providing for a grand lifestyle is the way to show their love and devotion. They want to feel needed.

After awhile though they start to resent that they are only known as the provider. They want to be more. All of your H extra activities may be a rebellion to that "provider" role.

Plus men do need time away from the family unit to recharge the batteries. See Men are from Mars...for more details.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Are you still awake??? <hr /></blockquote>ZZZZZZZZZ Huh, oh yes vell the session is over for now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

cwmac

PS What are the sexes and ages of your kids?

[ May 15, 2004, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]

Hi Very Regretful.
Your message has been on my mind a lot.

Almost all of us are seeing you as a very nice lady.

Lots of people want to think and say the OW is NOT NICE and they call her lots of unkind names.

However, as the nice lady you seem to be, how was it possible for you to betray your H, meet secretly with your BEST FRIEND'S husband and kiss and have sex with him? (I am not sure how long this love affair went on.)

If you had come here in the middle of your affair rather than it running it's course and you ending it; you would probably be writing a different story to us. True?

Would it be possible for you to remember what you were thinking and feeling then???

Would anyone's advice made a difference or were you headed down this path, as if you were driven by a selfish need, that made you not think of H or friend or anyone but you and the OM?

Please share with us, if you can remember your feelings and thoughts THEN.
Sincerely, Julie

JL, I see myself as a FWW, I am no longer OW, I am no longer a WS, I am FORMER WW. I think I need a bumper sticker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Within hours of me telling my husband, not even hours, he told the OM S that he wanted his marriage. He left me in a rage, left with the intentions of doing bodly harm, armed with a bat. I was very scared for myself and OM, but from that moment on my loyalties shifted. I absolutely justified, in fact we had 3 major factors happen in my M, 3 screw up by hubby, that just made it seem like I had every right to have my A. I know see how ridiculous I was, and how incredible selfish I was. You are still very much in the fog. I told my H, because I needed the support to make it end. Just like cwmac said, you need the support, not only do you need to be honest for his sack, but you need him to hold you accountable in NC. I tried NC on my own, I tried time after time to end it, it never worked, I fell right back into the A. You do need to tell him, suck it up and tell. If you think it will be violent, go to a public place. I called the OM before I did, to warn him, because I new my H would go after him, I didn't call him after, when my H left to get him. I was just hoping he was prepared, my loyalties shifted immediatly. Love your H enough, tell him. That is my plea to you.

cwmac
I will save you the trip to Hawaii, I'm hoping the expense saved will cover our sessions. Stay at home mom, do you need me to type that slower? I'll be ducking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm guessing you read alot? Am I right. I will be buying the book you recommended. I L to read, and I have been reading to my H, which I L even more, I will add this to the pile. I'm guessing you want to know about my 2 boys to figure out this impact on them. I'm scared, they are 21/2 and 7. I feel my H basis all his worth on how he provides for his family, on how well he gets things done. So you are right on once again with him working so hard is his way to show their love and devotion. I always allowed him to do everything he wanted, because I had so much respect for him. He would go on weekend fishing trips all the time, daily for hours all the time, every weekend, and then say Sunday he would spend with me. I was in the house with just the kids 6 days a week, with very minimal contact with the outside world. He discouraged any of my outings, or would call and cut them short. I'm in C though and she is helping me to become more assertive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I will change my passive unhealthy ways, and he is changing his very dominate ways. You are so insightful, I really appreciate your post, now I'm on to the hard one BT. Ouch!!!! Did they borrow your 2x4, or does everybody here have one????

BT, OUCH!!! I will not defend my A, it was abosolutely the worst decision I have every made for myself. The A lasted 4-5 months. I was in the fog. We bonded as families, we was together 5 nights a week, we dined, we shopped, we did everything the 8 of us. We all loved each other deeply. I was bubbling from the inside out, this new happiness I had. I never experienced complete bliss, and this was it, because of the 8 of us. We took a M course at church the 4 of us together, but my H doesn't go with me to church, so it was really the 3 of us, the OM and I would discuss the classes and cry on each other shoulders how bad we had it, the bond formed from there and it seemed to take seconds before the A started. What I was thinking and feeling is the fog talk, it is a very sick and twisted relationship that I was carrying on with my BF, one I'm very ashamed of, one that is very hard for me to come face to face with, but I will respect your boldness and try my best to explain it to you. I tried hopelessly to get him to stop, to see that she loved him, yes, and then I would turn around and sleep with him. I was helping her to mend her broken marriage, yes, and lie to her about everything going on between us. I did many, many bad things, I'm completely ashamed. I had no idea anything about A, I didn't realize it was an addiction, I didn't understand NC, until Wednesday night. If I would have came here in the midst of it. I would have taken the tools from this site and applied it. I AM A DECENT WOMAN, I just made a huge mistake. (my therapist would be so proud)Here is a quote from a book I was ironically reading with my BF this best describes my frame of mind. I was feeling a dispair that paralyzed all good decision making. I was experiencing a degree of hoplessness and lack of fulfillment that causes a person to give up trying to do what's right. I experienced such a build up of negative emotions day after day, year after year, that I needed something wonderful, that I could no longer convince myself I had with my H. I was tired of pretending to be happy. I was tortured with a loneliness that left me longing for anyone who would look into my soul and see me. I cheated, I cheated my M. I should have could have handled it so many different ways. I am still shocked by lack of self control. I have lost so much out of this A. I very much feel it is rightly so, but I did not get of easy, and I'm extremely remorseful BT. I loved my BF, and I hate what I did to her and her family. The pain I feel in loosing her is going to require some drugs, anybody have a Paxil????? I thought of her feelings after, yes after, every time. I constantly told him, "we are done" daily, I talked to him constantly, my H gave us, so to speak, easy people, so much time together, I hated myself then, and I do now, but I was in the fog. The fog talk is completely irrational, everybody hear me, or read me, fog talk is CRAP, they don't mean it!!! Thank you BT for your post. If I didn't do you justice reply back, and I will try to oblige you.
VR (gosh I wish that stood for virgin)

VR,
Fist a little MB house cleaning item. Try to break your posts up into smaller paragraphs. Otherwise their hard to follow and read. Hard on the eyes.

Thank you for the explanation of SAHM. Guess I'm not up on my soccer mom acronyms. lol.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm guessing you read alot? <hr /></blockquote>Yeah, but never marriage books until the infidelity was suspected. My first book was "not Just Friends" bc I knew for sure that it was an EA.

That's great that you're reading and that your H is willing to listen. If that's the case, the first book to buy above all others is "Surviving An Affair" by W Harley. Not only does it talk about the stages, the reactions but it outlines all of Harley's major concepts: LBing, POJA, and the all important Emotional Needs.

Another good one is the "Road Less Travelled" It does the best job describing how the "in love" feeling is just a result of a chemical reaction in the brain. It also states that "love" itself is a decision. You have to decide to stay in love once the in love feeling fades.

If your H wants to know what you were thinking and what motivated you during the A go to the library and look for "Tempted Women."

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm in C though and she is helping me to become more assertive. I will change my passive unhealthy ways, and he is changing his very dominate ways. <hr /></blockquote>I was going to mention this exact point in my last post but forgot. I think you'll find that after awhile you'll feel comfortable expressing your desires, needs etc. and bc you'll ask H will eventually feel less need to grab control.

I'll take a stab at Blessed Time's post.

cwmac

Blessed Time,
After reading posts from all the FWS and then your post, it just dawned on me that I learned the perfect parable/metaphor/analogy to how WSs fall into the affair.

Fogive me if you've heard it. I't's the "How to Cook a Frog."

Goes something like this. If you're going to cook a frog you can't just heat a pot of water to the boiling point and then throw the frog in. The water's so hot that the frog will instantly jump out. He'll be burned but he'll survive.

Sooo, the way to do it is place the frog in the pot with nice luke warm water. Turn the fire on under the pot to the lowest setting.

The frog sits in the water and enjoys the warm feeling. The water slowly heats but since it's gradual the frog doesn't notice. hotter, hotter, hotter. It becomes a frog jacuzzi. hotter, hotter, hotter still.Finally the water gets to the point where it cooks the frog.

(S)He didn't know what hit him/her because it snuck up on him/her slowly. In the beginning it was just fun. It felt good. Slowly but surely it became more and more deadly serious. To late trapped and cooked.

I'm not trying to justify a WS's behavior but I can see how it starts simple and developes slowly in a lot of cases. Especially with married women who unlike married men are statistically less likely to have a ONS.

I am a BS so I'm not rationalizing the A. I've been here awhile and now can see the slow dangerous build up.

Yes ultimately they are humans and therfore have free will and choice. No flames please.

cwmac

[ May 15, 2004, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]

cwmac, I love frog legs. I think it is great that you have taken the time to research the other side of this so thouroughly. I'm sorry you ever had to, but your insight shows alot about you. I read the frog leg analogy just the other day, I loved it, although it was pertaining to debt.
We sat down and did some MB worksheets this afternoon, it was tough. H was sad, he thought he did better than what was on paper, his comment was, I didn't realize you was so unhappy. We are building, we will recover. I was also surprised with his sheets. Eye opener

Thanks 'Very Regretful' for your thoughtful reply.

I myself have never thought of OW as BAD woman; they are just woman! Many have kind hearts, just like you.

(Of course it will always be hard to understand how you or anyone could have sex with your Best Friends H and cheat on their own H but.....it happens!)

Actually my H's OW was a nice lady also. Everyone that knows her; likes her.
(But she is certainly a little sex pot in private by what she wrote in her e-mails to H!)

I was and still AM tempted by a dear old friend.
The feelings for this OM are very very strong so I certainly DO understand how a person can get involved with someone else...It FEELS good thinking about him, daydreaming, fantasizing what it would be like to be alone with him!
He has a way of making me feel like such a special & sensual lady. (He says my H is fortunate to have me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Now don't get me wrong, I am not going to have an affair...Although I have learned in life to "never say never"! If daydreaming is an EA, so be it! No one can censor another's thoughts!

I should hope after reading all this MB stuff, including heartaches; I would know enough not to be that frog in the skillet slowly warming until it is boiling and too late to get out!

Love, Julie
And 'regretful', keep giving the good advice to 'confess' because without confessing it is too tempting to keep the affair going, true?

[ May 15, 2004, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]

BT
yeah, it happens. I never would have thought it, but it happened.
I absolutely think confession is key to NC. I couldn't do it by myself, I needed my H help.

Which is sad and pathetic, but he helped me, like the rock that he is.

becareful with your friend, that is how I got started, when you are getting only postive deposits and none from your H, in my case, it was easy to want to be around OM. But had I known what you know, MB concepts and such, I wouldn't have done it.

Live and learn, I know hate that saying!!

This will be my last post.

I'm off on a mini V with the fam. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> When I return my internet service will be off. We are doing a Total money makeover along with our M makeover.

JG CONFESS!!!!!!!!! CONFESS!!!!!!!!
I'm yelling!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SS hope your trip was grand.

cwmac thank you for your wisdom, I'm assuming your very old to have accumulated all that knowledge. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope - Plan A, now that the tramp down the road is out of the picture, it will work!!

Sounds like she loves you, and I bet she is sorry to the core of her soul.

I bet she has really long hair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Plan A, honey. Have the patience, be your wonderful self......

VR,
Good luck to you and H.

Come back occassionally. Borrow a friends internet to tell us how you're doing.

Yes I'm ancient 45.

Best wishes to you from "the doctor"

cwmac <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

VR, Many things you have brought to light with your situation. You have given many people here much hope that there WS will return. You brought a lot of good things to the board and this has also brought a lot to you. I'm willing to bet that the joy and relief you get when you are giving your words of advise makes you feel like your old self again. You have a big heart we know you are good person who just made a mistake. I know your marriage will work and wish you the best of luck.

Hi 'lost in life'.
I agree with what you just posted for VG!

I also noticed that this is your very first message here.
How about starting a thread and telling us YOUR story?

I can tell by your ID that you have an inner heartache.
Whether it is you that was betrayed or whether you were the unfaithful one; you are still carrying a big hurt! True, dear one?
Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ May 16, 2004, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]

BT,

You have heard my story already. If your read all of her post it describes my story. I appreciate your concern but at this point in time I cannot bring myself to post my own thread. I hope you understand.
Sorry

Dear 'Lost'.
Your short note has made me cry!
If your story is like her story it is filled with much pain and heartache.

I ACHE for you...I wonder if you were able to keep your marriage or if that too was lost?

I wonder if you still see the OM or if he is a part of your past?

I wonder if you grieve for the hurt you caused yourself, your H and also if you are missing the man that filled so much of your time and heart?
The OM...(Withdrawal pain.)

I know I have withheld some personal things from MB about what is happening with me lately because I do not want a lecture...believe me, I know the answers!
But following them is something else!

DEAR 'Lost', start your thread when you are ready.
However, keep in mind that since no one knows you or will ever know you, you are SAFE here.
(You may get some strong words of reprimands but SO WHAT...you, I am sure, have said them to yourself many times.) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

With love and caring, Julie

Moving up for 'Lost in Life' (or anyone)

BT, if I am reading correctly, Lost in Life is the OM in very regretful's life...and vice versa...correct me if I am wrong here???

I think that both of you ahve the tools and the resources to build a better marriage than before the A. you both have spouses that love you very much to stick by you and go thru all this pain and suffering with you. If you put all your efforts into your spouses and dont dwell on the past, you will both make it..I wish you both the best of luck!

oh and BTW, IF you two are in fact the ones that had the affair with each other...you need to stop posting on each others threads and probably not post here at all.

NC means NC!

also, changing your screen name wont help either! Sorry...but it shows up on all your threads. You need to re-register with a different email addy and different name completely!

So think of another name and re-register with that name and lost needs to as well! You two need to be OUT OF CONTACT completley! HTH!

Hugs to you both! You can do this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OMG - I just realized that you are LIL's OW. This is not cool. This is as disrespectful and disruptive as calling his house and talking to him directly. Posting on the same board is bad enough - but to pine away together on his thread????

This is NOT no contact. This is really really REALLY hurtful to your spouses and completely disrespectful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It is especially disrespectful when LIL's BS posts here & VR posts on her thread saying she is going to have NC.

Lost in Life! Your wife is trying her best to recover your marriage! Please give her the respect SHE deserves and quit contacting this OW....Your wife loves you very much and believe me I KNOW the pain she is going thru. I am a BS and I KNOW the pain we endure. STOP thinking of yourself right now and think of your Wife and your children. leave OW alone...

God's will is never counter to His word. As Christians, you have to know He will never bless this. NEVER.

Plus, I feel personally offended that you would reach out to the MB community for aide and assistance, and then, use the very board, that is PRO MARRIAGE, to stay in contact with your A partner.

NOT COOL!!!!!!!!!!

Look, you both need support. But, try an exercise with me for a moment.

Close your eyes and try not to think about a dalmation dog. Whatever you do, do not think about a dalmation dog. Don;t think about the white coat, the spots. The red collar. Don't do it!

Ok...do you get it. You both CLAIM to want to rebuild your marriages, and STOP thinking about the Other Person, yet, all you think about is the other person.

"Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things."

I promise you, your marriage is all of that. TRUE. NOBLE. RIGHT. PURE. LOVELY. ADMIRABLE. PRAISEWORTHY.

And God says that is what you should be thinking about.

I can appreciate that you both need support, but, I hope you can have more respect for people's time, energy, and prayers, by not using this as a forum to feed your ugly, family/life destroying relationship.

My prayers are with you both.

[ May 20, 2004, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: ChristyV ]

I am confused as to who is what and what is whom. Regardless...

R&PSPree you wrote in LIL's post, "I'm trying to fill myself with my H, I feel sometimes it is impossible for him to make me Happy."

Of course it's impossible for BH to make you happy. You are your own woman, no one can MAKE you anything. Plus, if you are going through withdrawal, expect to be down for a while.

Feed into your marriage, invest in your marriage again, turn toward your husband (AWAY from om) and try to make him happy. You'll be surprized how much giving can warm your heart. You "love" om and not bh because you gave to om the love you should've given to bh and your family. You actively nourished the A relationship with om and now you're passively waiting for your marriage - which you neglected - to fulfill you and make you happy?

Be patient, allow yourself to go through withdrawal and don't blame your misery on anyone but you. Take responsibility for your own emotions and give your poor bh a break.

[ May 20, 2004, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Loy ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I think that both of you ahve the tools and the resources to build a better marriage than before the A. you both have spouses that love you very much to stick by you and go thru all this pain and suffering with you. If you put all your efforts into your spouses and dont dwell on the past, you will both make it..I wish you both the best of luck! <hr /></blockquote>good for you mom! excellent advice...

guys...are you listening? I hope mom's intuition is wrong here and you are NOT former A-partners, breaking N/C using the MB forums...

anyhow: regardless...the comments I have for you R&P remain the same...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm in C though and she is helping me to become more assertive. I will change my passive unhealthy ways, <hr /></blockquote>good to hear this...I hope you and the counsellor are looking at the contribution you made to the state of your M...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> the OM and I would discuss the classes and cry on each other shoulders how bad we had it <hr /></blockquote>shared unhappiness is often the beginning...and while it seems as though you've found the "right" person to change this with an A-partner, you haven't...do you understand this yet?

the right person is actually YOU...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I did many, many bad things, I'm completely ashamed. <hr /></blockquote>there is only one way to make amends...do not do it...period...never again...

work on respecting YOURSELF enough to end the pain and anguish you are putting yourself through...

have you and your counsellor discussed self-destructive tendencies? self-esteem? self-worth?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I AM A DECENT WOMAN, I just made a huge mistake. <hr /></blockquote>of course you are...do not defend your mistakes any further...do not justify...apologize to those you've injured and then make sure it NEVER happens again...

you are hurting yourself most of all...you are hurting your family, other children...you cannot respect yourself deep down if you continue to hurt other people...

so decide to STOP...no "trying"...DO...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I was tortured with a loneliness that left me longing for anyone who would look into my soul and see me. <hr /></blockquote>and yet, YOU were there all along! the answer, the solution, lies within YOU...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I loved my BF, and I hate what I did to her and her family. The pain I feel in loosing her is going to require some drugs, anybody have a Paxil????? I thought of her feelings after, yes after, every time. <hr /></blockquote>I know you do...I remember how it feels, on both sides of the fence...I hurt another woman because I was the other woman...and I was hurt by another woman because she was the other woman...

it is awful...for everyone involved...so much pain...and all in search of "happiness" that cannot be acquired this way...

once again, I urge you to set aside your thoughts of your former friend...wallowing in your bad feelings about the damage you have done to her is not going to help you focus on what you need to do NOW...

look inside yourself...try to understand and forgive yourself for what you did...use that to motivate yourself to NEVER engage in this behaviour again...

that means N/C ever again...do you understand this? are you committed to it?

N/C begins in your mind first and foremost...

would you like some specific techniques you can use to STOP thinking about him? about his family? to refocus your mind on YOU, on YOUR H, and YOUR family?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The selfish act was no longer worth the pain I was causing so many others. You know, I read some of the forums, and it breaks my heart for all of you who are on the other end. <hr /></blockquote>here's a funny thought for you to consider: after a lot of research into this issue, spending a lot of time counselling both BS and WS, and having been both a BS and a WS, you know what? I think the WS has a harder path to follow in order to truly heal...

sure, the BS is devastated...it hurts, I cannot begin to describe how much it hurts...it is unbelievable the destruction it wreaks within you...

but...

if you manage to haul yourself to your knees, bloody and beaten...then raise your head up and say "I can do this"...and finally stand up straight and tall because you realize that you are STRONG and COMMITTED and HONOURABLE...

well then hey...this is a pretty neat thing... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

the WS? pain, fear, loss, regret, anger, confusion...and yet NO one else is responsible, no one else is to blame...in the end, you/we brought it on ourselves...and have to live with this knowledge for the rest of our lives...

I have a lot of sympathy, empathy and sorrow for the WS...it is a hard hard place to be...

which is why I suggest that you give yourself a break...stand up straight and tall and do the right thing from now on...you cannot change the past...so change the present and future...

give yourself this gift...

it is the one thing you can do from today, forever more...

awed

P.S. N/C means N/C means N/C means N/C...no writing, no thinking, no obsessing...it means do the right thing today...hold yourself accountable to you...you can't hide from yourself...it will destroy you in the end...are you going to stop your self-destruction???

Awed, you mean I actually did something RIGHT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> WOW, that makes my day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Loy:

Lost in life is wayward husband
RP is wayward wife

LIL & RP were/are each others' affair partners.

Any clearer????

NOT COOL!

Wow, that is a shocker.

That fact that 'very regretful' has changed her ID name and has been sharing this thread with her lover.

Many, many BS's were kind and understanding to her and they were kinda suckered. Myself included!

I, for one, am very disappointed.
We all had faith and trust that she had truly been repentent!

And I thought 'Lost in Life' just identifyed with her story when he said it was his story.

IT REALLY WAS HIS STORY! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And I thought 'Lost in Life' just identifyed with her story when he said it was his story.

IT REALLY WAS HIS STORY!
And we knw this because?

Chris:

Good 2uestion. I hope this hasn't become "true" because of a pyramid of assumptions.

How about it, R&P? Is it true?

-ol' 2long

Simple answer. END IT NOW.

VR, R&P, whomever you are,
Very disappointing if all of this is true.

cwmac

All MBers,
At first when i read the posts by S&P and LiL, I thought that S&P wasn't aware that LIL was her OM.

But read this post from Lil to S&P.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> R&PS

I also know where you are coming from. I too feel a great void from the OW. She is one of the biggest reasons I'm communicating with my W and trying to make my M work. She also was posting here at MB. Reading her words I saw what joy this brought to her. It was a joy that she has not had in a long time. She felt like her old self agian. It really made me realize I need to let her go, even though I L her so much. I have been communicateing with my W which is a great start. My wife has made many positive changes and I hope it will work. I know about the filling yourself with you S that is what I am doing as well. Though there are so many reminders in her words of the OW. Focus on your S and talk to him that will hopefully take your mind of the OM. I know it is hard not think about the OP because I still do. Best of luck and Stay strong you can do this, repeat after me

<hr /></blockquote>Even someone as dense as me can read between the lines here.

cwmac

Chris...maybe the ones that 'caught on' put two and two together. (Possibly could be wrong.)

In this post Lost said his OW was a poster here.
She (very regretful) posted on his thread "I hope you find your way".

Read this message from Lost concerning OW.
"R&PS

I also know where you are coming from. I too feel a great void from the OW. She is one of the biggest reasons I'm communicating with my W and trying to make my M work.

She (OW) also was posting here at MB. Reading her words I saw what joy this brought to her. It was a joy that she has not had in a long time. She felt like her old self agian. It really made me realize I need to let her go, even though I L her so much.

I have been communicateing with my W which is a great start. My wife has made many positive changes and I hope it will work. I know about the filling yourself with you S that is what I am doing as well.

Though there are so many reminders in her words of the OW. Focus on your S and talk to him that will hopefully take your mind of the OM. I know it is hard not think about the OP because I still do. Best of luck and Stay strong you can do this, repeat after me

I can do this!! "
************************************************
Doesn't it kinda seem like messages of love to one another???

Chris...maybe the ones that 'caught on' put two and two together. (Possibly could be wrong.)
As you wrote, "Possibly could be wrong".
I'm not saying they are or are not. If so, yes, they need to quit even reading each others threads.
But I asked the question because they may not be. It seems close but is not cut & dried they are the om/ow.

Your quote (with your highlights) doesn't even imply anything in that direction.

Hi Chris.
Yeah, the old rule of 'assume' applies here, true?

I highlighted those sentences to show how he (Lost in Life) was telling her (the OW) he still loved, missed and thought of her because all the time he was writing, he KNEW the OW was reading his thread.
(Whether it was 'very regretful' or some other message board member; it just doesn't seem right!)

Oh well, it is good to think of this 'soap opera' thread as it takes away from our own problems for awhile! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Are these two former affair partners? Beats me.

Is VR this RB person? I don't know. This reminds me of the is SUDFB really SNL or just another smarta$$ with an attitude.

You all have made your accusation now you need to relax and let these posters speak for themselves. Clearly, if they were each others former partner . . . they need to move along and not cross-post.

If it is such a huge concern, have the mod's check th i.p. address of the posters. They may be able to solve this mystery.

[ May 20, 2004, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]

WAKE up people! yes, these two people are former Affair partners! VR IS R&R spree or whatever she is calling herself now! Lost in Life is the WH of another poster here on this board!

The BS of LIL is very confused...as is everyone else.

I am NOT jumping to conslusions here. Go back and read the posts to and from each of them. Istn' it funny how LIL has only recently registered and one of his very few posts are under this thread...his former Lover???

I do know for a fact that these two are former lovers. Go back and read LIL posts in his own thread. Maybe LIL is trying to really work now and R&R is trying to sabbotage. I dont know. But it is not helping the BS here at all. She is very hurt and very confused. either way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am NOT jumping to conslusions here.
Sure you are. It may not be much of a jump though.

I do know for a fact that these two are former lovers.
You mean you are pretty darn sure from what you have read?
Or you know for a fact? Pictures, you saw them together, what?

If they are or they aren't, lighten up.
All this was PRIOR to the text below.

p.s.
this is from lil.
You are all correct in the fact the R&P Spree is the OW,however my W and you are the ones that brought that to my attention.

[ May 20, 2004, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

RJ I posted this to Lost in Life

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> LIL ok so you want to work on your M and I did start this thread. Ok so if you want to make this right get a new email on Yahoo or something and reregister under a new name and don't post under this one anymore. I'm going to suggest the same to RJ. I wouldn't post my story because most of us here have it. I'd just post with questions that you want answered or if you have suggestions. I don't know if anyone else is but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here so don't dissapoint us just reregister ok.
<hr /></blockquote>If you also want to work on your M do the same or go to the other sight that someone suggested here. It's the only right thing to do.

If you read 'Lost in Life's thread, he admitted that he and 'very regretful' (New ID R&PSpree) were 'former' lovers.

So momto3boys instincts were correct!

************************************************8

[ May 20, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]

Ewwwww. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

O

[ May 20, 2004, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]

oh for pete's sake...TRIPLE sigh now...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Oh well, it is good to think of this 'soap opera' thread as it takes away from our own problems for awhile! <hr /></blockquote>you seem to forget (or did you ever stop to consider) these are REAL people (usually <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) with REAL problems...

they are struggling hard...

this is NOT, I repeat NOT!!! a soap opera...

c'mon now...are you helping or hurting? where's the respect for anyone involved in the mess?

maybe I'm wrong...maybe they are getting cheap thrills out of posting to each other under assumed names on the very board that promotes M building...

if so, then the best thing would be to ignore them...

otherwise, YOU are the one that is playing a GAME, a very DANGEROUS game, with someone else's M...

there are kids involved here folks...small children, I believe in both families...

so if you can't say something at least intended to be helpful in some way, how about not saying anything at all???

or start a "funny" thread about all the dumb things people do on the MB forum...awed

We aren't jumping to conclusions. This site USED to be a sanctuary to LIL's wife - however when OW started posting here she left - out of RESPECT and to protect herself. She knew her H was reading here and started posting as well. So needless to say - she's devestated once again.

I wouldn't be a part of a lynch mob without SUBSTANTIAL proof. If I'm wrong this time - I'll eat crow and both my feet.