cwmac
pre A issues. you had recommend the book Men are from Mars woman from Venus, and you joked he will get more S, the man can not possible get any more S!!!!!!!!!! I swear he is unfulfillable!!!! Is he an addict, no, but his drive, drives me crazy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I deal with lack of self worth, I was raised by a verbally abusive M and physical as well. My H is controlling, and I'm very passive it seemed to work, but I was becoming more aware of it and not so happy. I'm a SAHM and I'm quite kept. I was never clued in on the finances, and basically asked for permission on everything. He was never cruel, he has always loved me good, but I have never been a priority. He is to the extreme selfish, I don't say that as I have a pity party for myself, it is the truth, I have said our entire M, he is selfish, but it is okay because I am extremely giving. It took its toll. He is a busy man, or shall I say, he has made himself a busy man. He works over, he goes fishing and golfing all the time. We joke, that his bachelor friends are jealous of all the freedom he has. He doesn't go to bars or party, he is an outdoors man, and chooses that. He doesn't like or respect anybody who is important to me, he has attended very few family outings in 11 years of togetherness. I was a lonely woman, I knew I was lonely, but I didn't realize how unhappy I was until my needs were being met by OM. It took me by complete surprise, how happy I felt inside. That is my M story. Are you still awake???
BTW, I head your warning from the last one, my humor sometimes gets the best of me.

VR, thankyou for your reply. One of my fears is that my H would hurt OM...and throw me out, of course. Om's wife knows alittle about the A. Om told her if she calls my H, he'll leave her, done. I guess she still wants him and their M, because she hasn't called my H. I'm not gonna say no way to telling my H, but I don't think TODAY is the day...sometimes I can't believe the path I'm on. I,too have remorse. But honestly, times when my H would be a certain way, I could justify the A in my head. Did u ever feel that way? and do you feel like an OW, or the BS?

Jet girl,

I say this with kindness and in a non judgemental manner:

You said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> except my H doesn't know I had an A for 5.5 years...A couple of weeks ago the OM tried to end it. I then did NC. The withdrawal was hell. I tried, and then he called, and I picked up the phone- big mistake. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe that this pattern will continue for awhile unless you tell your H. You need someone on your side to help you with the addiction of the OM. You need someone to make sure that you stay on NC. You can promise yourself all you want but you'll break NC. Your H will be your sponsor (AA talk which applies since you have an addiction)

The OM? He won't. As long as its convenient for him he'll call, talk or whatever you allow.

How do you know that your H will kick you out? Does he not love you? Is there a pattern of physical abuse? If not I doubt he'll throw you out. Almost every betrayed spouse (BS) on this site has said that at one point and we are all fighting for or working on our maariages.

Let's say he's the 10-20% of BS who will divorce. Shouldn't you let him choose his future. Why live a lie?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Om's wife knows alittle about the A. Om told her if she calls my H, he'll leave her, done. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OM sounds like a great guy. Mr Manipulative.

I'm a male BS so you may not listen to me but please do listen to the female FWS. They've been where you are and where you can go if you give your marriage a real shot. Real shot = being honest and open with H so that you can peel away the layers of lies.

cwmac

VR,

Thanks for the reponse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you had recommend the book Men are from Mars woman from Venus, and you joked he will get more S, the man can not possible get any more S!!!!!!!!!! I swear he is unfulfillable!!!! Is he an addict, no, but his drive, drives me crazy.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus" is more of a book on how the two sexes communicate differently, how they process information differently and how thet handle conflict differently

Actually the book for the sex issues is "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom". Both books are by John Gray.

The book will help two different types of wives: the one who thinks her husband wants too much sex and the one who thinks her husband wants too little sex ( Got your attention Mrs X didn't I?)

I heard all of your H's and your issues. BTW, I must need a refresher course or a seminar in Hawaii bc I missed the meaning of SAHM.

Your situation has some similarities with mine.

I was selfish on a number of issues and my wife built up enough resentment that she reacted with the ultimate in selfish behavior, her affair.

I don't know your H but don't assume that because he worked hard that you and the kids weren't a priority. Men are taught that and believe that providing for a grand lifestyle is the way to show their love and devotion. They want to feel needed.

After awhile though they start to resent that they are only known as the provider. They want to be more. All of your H extra activities may be a rebellion to that "provider" role.

Plus men do need time away from the family unit to recharge the batteries. See Men are from Mars...for more details.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are you still awake??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ZZZZZZZZZ Huh, oh yes vell the session is over for now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

cwmac

PS What are the sexes and ages of your kids?

<small>[ May 15, 2004, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Hi Very Regretful.
Your message has been on my mind a lot.

Almost all of us are seeing you as a very nice lady.

Lots of people want to think and say the OW is NOT NICE and they call her lots of unkind names.

However, as the nice lady you seem to be, how was it possible for you to betray your H, meet secretly with your BEST FRIEND'S husband and kiss and have sex with him? (I am not sure how long this love affair went on.)

If you had come here in the middle of your affair rather than it running it's course and you ending it; you would probably be writing a different story to us. True?

Would it be possible for you to remember what you were thinking and feeling then???

Would anyone's advice made a difference or were you headed down this path, as if you were driven by a selfish need, that made you not think of H or friend or anyone but you and the OM?

Please share with us, if you can remember your feelings and thoughts THEN.
Sincerely, Julie

JL, I see myself as a FWW, I am no longer OW, I am no longer a WS, I am FORMER WW. I think I need a bumper sticker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Within hours of me telling my husband, not even hours, he told the OM S that he wanted his marriage. He left me in a rage, left with the intentions of doing bodly harm, armed with a bat. I was very scared for myself and OM, but from that moment on my loyalties shifted. I absolutely justified, in fact we had 3 major factors happen in my M, 3 screw up by hubby, that just made it seem like I had every right to have my A. I know see how ridiculous I was, and how incredible selfish I was. You are still very much in the fog. I told my H, because I needed the support to make it end. Just like cwmac said, you need the support, not only do you need to be honest for his sack, but you need him to hold you accountable in NC. I tried NC on my own, I tried time after time to end it, it never worked, I fell right back into the A. You do need to tell him, suck it up and tell. If you think it will be violent, go to a public place. I called the OM before I did, to warn him, because I new my H would go after him, I didn't call him after, when my H left to get him. I was just hoping he was prepared, my loyalties shifted immediatly. Love your H enough, tell him. That is my plea to you.

cwmac
I will save you the trip to Hawaii, I'm hoping the expense saved will cover our sessions. Stay at home mom, do you need me to type that slower? I'll be ducking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm guessing you read alot? Am I right. I will be buying the book you recommended. I L to read, and I have been reading to my H, which I L even more, I will add this to the pile. I'm guessing you want to know about my 2 boys to figure out this impact on them. I'm scared, they are 21/2 and 7. I feel my H basis all his worth on how he provides for his family, on how well he gets things done. So you are right on once again with him working so hard is his way to show their love and devotion. I always allowed him to do everything he wanted, because I had so much respect for him. He would go on weekend fishing trips all the time, daily for hours all the time, every weekend, and then say Sunday he would spend with me. I was in the house with just the kids 6 days a week, with very minimal contact with the outside world. He discouraged any of my outings, or would call and cut them short. I'm in C though and she is helping me to become more assertive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I will change my passive unhealthy ways, and he is changing his very dominate ways. You are so insightful, I really appreciate your post, now I'm on to the hard one BT. Ouch!!!! Did they borrow your 2x4, or does everybody here have one????

BT, OUCH!!! I will not defend my A, it was abosolutely the worst decision I have every made for myself. The A lasted 4-5 months. I was in the fog. We bonded as families, we was together 5 nights a week, we dined, we shopped, we did everything the 8 of us. We all loved each other deeply. I was bubbling from the inside out, this new happiness I had. I never experienced complete bliss, and this was it, because of the 8 of us. We took a M course at church the 4 of us together, but my H doesn't go with me to church, so it was really the 3 of us, the OM and I would discuss the classes and cry on each other shoulders how bad we had it, the bond formed from there and it seemed to take seconds before the A started. What I was thinking and feeling is the fog talk, it is a very sick and twisted relationship that I was carrying on with my BF, one I'm very ashamed of, one that is very hard for me to come face to face with, but I will respect your boldness and try my best to explain it to you. I tried hopelessly to get him to stop, to see that she loved him, yes, and then I would turn around and sleep with him. I was helping her to mend her broken marriage, yes, and lie to her about everything going on between us. I did many, many bad things, I'm completely ashamed. I had no idea anything about A, I didn't realize it was an addiction, I didn't understand NC, until Wednesday night. If I would have came here in the midst of it. I would have taken the tools from this site and applied it. I AM A DECENT WOMAN, I just made a huge mistake. (my therapist would be so proud)Here is a quote from a book I was ironically reading with my BF this best describes my frame of mind. I was feeling a dispair that paralyzed all good decision making. I was experiencing a degree of hoplessness and lack of fulfillment that causes a person to give up trying to do what's right. I experienced such a build up of negative emotions day after day, year after year, that I needed something wonderful, that I could no longer convince myself I had with my H. I was tired of pretending to be happy. I was tortured with a loneliness that left me longing for anyone who would look into my soul and see me. I cheated, I cheated my M. I should have could have handled it so many different ways. I am still shocked by lack of self control. I have lost so much out of this A. I very much feel it is rightly so, but I did not get of easy, and I'm extremely remorseful BT. I loved my BF, and I hate what I did to her and her family. The pain I feel in loosing her is going to require some drugs, anybody have a Paxil????? I thought of her feelings after, yes after, every time. I constantly told him, "we are done" daily, I talked to him constantly, my H gave us, so to speak, easy people, so much time together, I hated myself then, and I do now, but I was in the fog. The fog talk is completely irrational, everybody hear me, or read me, fog talk is CRAP, they don't mean it!!! Thank you BT for your post. If I didn't do you justice reply back, and I will try to oblige you.
VR (gosh I wish that stood for virgin)

VR,
Fist a little MB house cleaning item. Try to break your posts up into smaller paragraphs. Otherwise their hard to follow and read. Hard on the eyes.

Thank you for the explanation of SAHM. Guess I'm not up on my soccer mom acronyms. lol.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm guessing you read alot? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, but never marriage books until the infidelity was suspected. My first book was "not Just Friends" bc I knew for sure that it was an EA.

That's great that you're reading and that your H is willing to listen. If that's the case, the first book to buy above all others is "Surviving An Affair" by W Harley. Not only does it talk about the stages, the reactions but it outlines all of Harley's major concepts: LBing, POJA, and the all important Emotional Needs.

Another good one is the "Road Less Travelled" It does the best job describing how the "in love" feeling is just a result of a chemical reaction in the brain. It also states that "love" itself is a decision. You have to decide to stay in love once the in love feeling fades.

If your H wants to know what you were thinking and what motivated you during the A go to the library and look for "Tempted Women."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm in C though and she is helping me to become more assertive. I will change my passive unhealthy ways, and he is changing his very dominate ways. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was going to mention this exact point in my last post but forgot. I think you'll find that after awhile you'll feel comfortable expressing your desires, needs etc. and bc you'll ask H will eventually feel less need to grab control.

I'll take a stab at Blessed Time's post.


cwmac

Blessed Time,
After reading posts from all the FWS and then your post, it just dawned on me that I learned the perfect parable/metaphor/analogy to how WSs fall into the affair.

Fogive me if you've heard it. I't's the "How to Cook a Frog."

Goes something like this. If you're going to cook a frog you can't just heat a pot of water to the boiling point and then throw the frog in. The water's so hot that the frog will instantly jump out. He'll be burned but he'll survive.

Sooo, the way to do it is place the frog in the pot with nice luke warm water. Turn the fire on under the pot to the lowest setting.

The frog sits in the water and enjoys the warm feeling. The water slowly heats but since it's gradual the frog doesn't notice. hotter, hotter, hotter. It becomes a frog jacuzzi. hotter, hotter, hotter still.Finally the water gets to the point where it cooks the frog.

(S)He didn't know what hit him/her because it snuck up on him/her slowly. In the beginning it was just fun. It felt good. Slowly but surely it became more and more deadly serious. To late trapped and cooked.

I'm not trying to justify a WS's behavior but I can see how it starts simple and developes slowly in a lot of cases. Especially with married women who unlike married men are statistically less likely to have a ONS.

I am a BS so I'm not rationalizing the A. I've been here awhile and now can see the slow dangerous build up.

Yes ultimately they are humans and therfore have free will and choice. No flames please.

cwmac

<small>[ May 15, 2004, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

cwmac, I love frog legs. I think it is great that you have taken the time to research the other side of this so thouroughly. I'm sorry you ever had to, but your insight shows alot about you. I read the frog leg analogy just the other day, I loved it, although it was pertaining to debt.
We sat down and did some MB worksheets this afternoon, it was tough. H was sad, he thought he did better than what was on paper, his comment was, I didn't realize you was so unhappy. We are building, we will recover. I was also surprised with his sheets. Eye opener

Thanks 'Very Regretful' for your thoughtful reply.

I myself have never thought of OW as BAD woman; they are just woman! Many have kind hearts, just like you.

(Of course it will always be hard to understand how you or anyone could have sex with your Best Friends H and cheat on their own H but.....it happens!)

Actually my H's OW was a nice lady also. Everyone that knows her; likes her.
(But she is certainly a little sex pot in private by what she wrote in her e-mails to H!)

I was and still AM tempted by a dear old friend.
The feelings for this OM are very very strong so I certainly DO understand how a person can get involved with someone else...It FEELS good thinking about him, daydreaming, fantasizing what it would be like to be alone with him!
He has a way of making me feel like such a special & sensual lady. (He says my H is fortunate to have me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Now don't get me wrong, I am not going to have an affair...Although I have learned in life to "never say never"! If daydreaming is an EA, so be it! No one can censor another's thoughts!

I should hope after reading all this MB stuff, including heartaches; I would know enough not to be that frog in the skillet slowly warming until it is boiling and too late to get out!

Love, Julie
And 'regretful', keep giving the good advice to 'confess' because without confessing it is too tempting to keep the affair going, true?

<small>[ May 15, 2004, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

BT
yeah, it happens. I never would have thought it, but it happened.
I absolutely think confession is key to NC. I couldn't do it by myself, I needed my H help.

Which is sad and pathetic, but he helped me, like the rock that he is.

becareful with your friend, that is how I got started, when you are getting only postive deposits and none from your H, in my case, it was easy to want to be around OM. But had I known what you know, MB concepts and such, I wouldn't have done it.

Live and learn, I know hate that saying!!

This will be my last post.

I'm off on a mini V with the fam. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> When I return my internet service will be off. We are doing a Total money makeover along with our M makeover.

JG CONFESS!!!!!!!!! CONFESS!!!!!!!!
I'm yelling!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SS hope your trip was grand.

cwmac thank you for your wisdom, I'm assuming your very old to have accumulated all that knowledge. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope - Plan A, now that the tramp down the road is out of the picture, it will work!!

Sounds like she loves you, and I bet she is sorry to the core of her soul.

I bet she has really long hair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Plan A, honey. Have the patience, be your wonderful self......

VR,
Good luck to you and H.

Come back occassionally. Borrow a friends internet to tell us how you're doing.

Yes I'm ancient 45.

Best wishes to you from "the doctor"

cwmac <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

VR, Many things you have brought to light with your situation. You have given many people here much hope that there WS will return. You brought a lot of good things to the board and this has also brought a lot to you. I'm willing to bet that the joy and relief you get when you are giving your words of advise makes you feel like your old self again. You have a big heart we know you are good person who just made a mistake. I know your marriage will work and wish you the best of luck.

Hi 'lost in life'.
I agree with what you just posted for VG!

I also noticed that this is your very first message here.
How about starting a thread and telling us YOUR story?

I can tell by your ID that you have an inner heartache.
Whether it is you that was betrayed or whether you were the unfaithful one; you are still carrying a big hurt! True, dear one?
Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ May 16, 2004, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

BT,

You have heard my story already. If your read all of her post it describes my story. I appreciate your concern but at this point in time I cannot bring myself to post my own thread. I hope you understand.
Sorry

Dear 'Lost'.
Your short note has made me cry!
If your story is like her story it is filled with much pain and heartache.

I ACHE for you...I wonder if you were able to keep your marriage or if that too was lost?

I wonder if you still see the OM or if he is a part of your past?

I wonder if you grieve for the hurt you caused yourself, your H and also if you are missing the man that filled so much of your time and heart?
The OM...(Withdrawal pain.)

I know I have withheld some personal things from MB about what is happening with me lately because I do not want a lecture...believe me, I know the answers!
But following them is something else!

DEAR 'Lost', start your thread when you are ready.
However, keep in mind that since no one knows you or will ever know you, you are SAFE here.
(You may get some strong words of reprimands but SO WHAT...you, I am sure, have said them to yourself many times.) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

With love and caring, Julie

Moving up for 'Lost in Life' (or anyone)