Suzet* > I was reading some thread on another post and read your reply that I wanted to ask you about. You said in your post that you were a WW and things were getting easier for you. I would love to sit you down and ask you 50 questions. I love reading about WWs who are getting better and moving on. It gives me hope for my wife and me. I wish you could do some sort of Vulcan mind meld with her. I am a BS and my WW has had NC for couple of months and we are having a difficult time talking about anything serious. We can handle the regular day to day stuff, but if we go into things about us (relationship), rebuilding, reconnecting, she gets very aggitated and visibly upset. She says she doesn't know what to say to me. I LB'd for years, but I've really changed my behavior, but I guess I haven't proved to her that I'm for real. My heart is yearning to have her really reconnect to me. I wish you could shine some light on this for me.

Runningwithscissors,

I don’t know your situation, but I’m willing to help! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Can you please give me links or some background and tell me what type of involvement your W had with the OM. Was it an EA and/or PA? How was the A ended? Is your wife still in withdrawal and fog? Is there anyone else she can talk to like an IC or pastor? Information like this will give me a clearer picture of your situation.

I was involved in a 3-year e-mail friendship with a man at work. I didn’t really have much personal contact (telephone conversations and face-to-face conversations) with this guy, but the friendship became inappropriate and beginning of EA during 3rd year of e-mail contact. I was lucky in the sense that the EA stopped before it became more serious, although I struggled extremely and very long from withdrawal symptoms. It’s very difficult for a woman to recover from the emotional side of an A since woman are more closely involved with ‘feelings’.

During withdrawal (and it sounds if your W is still in this phase) it is possible for the fog to slip back from time to time. Most possibly your W feel very confused with herself right now and struggling with feelings of guilt, fear etc. During early recovery the FWS many times views the BS as the ‘meanie’ who prevents contact with the OP. A FWS in early withdrawal thinks if it wasn’t for the BS, they would be able to contact the OP and then resents the BS for some time… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I know this is SO unfair, but remember, this is all foggy thinking and will pass too…

I while back I have send a post to another BH and gave him a suggestions on how to reconnect with his W. Please read it, I’m sure it will help and give you some insight too. It’s the first 2 posts I’ve posted under Suzet (my previous screen name without the asterisk) on this thread. Please read both posts (I think it is the 2nd and 4th post on the 1st page).

Also read the following post I’ve send to a FWS a while ago. It will give you more insight into the feelings of a FWS:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I’m a FWW and I just want you let you know I understand how you feel and what you are currently going through. I can see you experience intense hurt, grief and pain from you A and especially the way your A ended. Withdrawal from the OP itself is very hard and if there is extra factors that adds to your pain (such as the restraint order, unanswered questions and unexplainable behavior from the OW) it makes it SO much more difficult to recover. You feel confused and you feel you need answers and ‘closure’ and because of all these intense emotional pain it makes it difficult for you to concentrate solely on your W and M right now... At the same time you know the A was very wrong and extremely hurtful towards your W and all these things makes you also feel very, very guilty… Dr Harley have said that withdrawal is the emotional reaction to the loss of something that gives great pleasure and similar to the feelings an alcoholic has when he makes a commitment never to drink again. It's also similar to the grief that comes from the loss of a loved one. A lover is like alcohol and like a loved one. Not only do unfaithful spouses miss what it was their lovers did, meeting important emotional needs, but they also miss the person they had come to love.

I was involved in a friendship that became inappropriate and beginning or EA and the biggest lesson I’ve learned is that you can’t judge another until you have walked in the same shoes as them and have done the same mistakes… Before what happened to me, I was very judgmental towards people who allowed themselves into situations like this, I never thought something like this would happen to me, but now I can better understand and have empathy for the feelings/pain of people who have been in similar situations. To have an A is very wrong, but before someone have not been in the same situation, one can’t fully understand the emptiness, the pain, the loss, the grief, the guilt and all the emotions involved for WS's trying to recover from the consequences of having an A and from missing the OP. In my situation I know the feelings I've had have been WRONG but it was the huge sense of loss from the OM and the fantasy-type friendship, which have been very difficult for me to recover from. The FOM ended the friendship very suddenly and abruptly and without any explanations. This was the hardest part for me to recover from and because of this, for a very long time I thought FOM’s friendship was based on all kinds of false pretenses and that he only pretended to be a trusting and caring friend. I had many questions and unresolved issues around this, but I was lucky enough to receive closure and after that I was able to forgive and let go.

Right now everyone is telling you to forget about OW, get it behind you and concentrate only on your W and M… This is what you must and should, but it’s not easy. Just as a BS must work through their pain, anger and grief, the WS also have their own emotions to work through…. The pain “deserved” is real, and the healing to some extent really takes time. And at the same time, through your pain and grief, you must also put your focus on your M and W, take responsibility for your actions and put yourself in your Ws shoes in order to fully understand the effect this had on her and the pain you've caused her… Yes, it’s hard and difficult trying to recover from the emotions on both sides of the coin: On the one side recovering from your own pain and loss and at the same time deal with the pain you've caused your M and deal with the associated guilt etc.

I strongly advise you to seek the help, support and guidance of a professional outside person (like a Pastor or Christian counselor) to help you sort out your concerns and feelings and to help you get your feelings out. I know you have these unanswered questions and unresolved issues surrounding the OW and I perfectly understand how hard it is...that’s why you feel so tempted to contact her. You must know it’s possible that you will never find the closure and answers you seek, so I suggest you to try and find peace within yourselfabout it and put all your emotional and mental energy on your W instead. Look up to the Lord for help and strength with this… I know it’s not easy, but try the think this way about it: Maybe there is a reason and purpose why the A ended the way it did… Maybe if the OW didn’t end the A this way, you would have never find the strength or courage to end it yourself. And maybe if the A was ended in a ‘nice’ way, it would have left the door open for further contact in future. From my experience I certainly know it’s NOT possible to stay friends with an OP after the boundaries was crossed.

If you have these temptations again to contact OW, think about your W. Be honest with your W and tell her about your concerns and temptations instead – it will also help you not acting on your feelings. Posting on these boards and speaking with a counselor or pastor will also help… And please whatever you decide to do, discuss it with you W first and please, don’t ever do ANYTHING without your W’s full knowledge and consent. It’s very important to follow The Policy of Joint Agreement with your S under all circumstances.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have any questions, please ask and I will answer them the best I can. I don’t really posts on weekends (since I post from work most of the time), so if you don’t hear from me during this weekend, I will post again on Monday. I really hope my posts could be of some help & insight to you.

Take care, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Suzet

<small>[ June 18, 2004, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Runningwithscissors,
Sounds a lot like the complaint my BH had not too long ago...I was "keeping my distance" emotionally and he wanted to connect. A lot of it had to do with my being in "withdrawal" and also feeling like pond scum in general. He started a thread a few weeks ago about withdrawal times...maybe it would help to read that thread. He is Recovering H. I snuck a reply in there to him and he didn't know at first that it was me! ANyway, there were things I wanted to say to him but was afraid to express, so I used this forum to do it. Check it out!

I know this may sound trivial or trite, but one of the things that really set me back was a small statement. About 3 weeks after Dday, I made a statement to my W, "I love you with all of my heart." She didn't say anything. I asked her if she loved me with all of her heart? She couldn't say it. That one thing set me back as much as almost anything. She says today that she is closer to being able to say that to me. I'm trying not to LB, I've done pretty good. I still blow it occaisionally without even realizing I've done it until it's over (work in progress). She says, "she's working on that." What does that mean? How do you work on loving someone that you've committed yourself to in marriage vows? Naive questions > maybe.

But, that one thing hurts so bad. That she doesn't share my same level of love for me that I do for her. I can see her coming around in her being able to speak to me. It seems to be getting easier for her. I'm really trying, because I do love her with all of my heart!


thanks

Running: I've read through some of your posts in addition to this thread and the Suzet* Please read threads.

Our situations do have some parallels. You found out 3 months ago, I found out 4. You are the BH as am I. There was/is a wall between us and our wives.

That said, I hope that what follows helps you. It is not meant as a 2x4 or anything except to hopefully shed light on our situations.

Onlywords is my spouse. It is so very difficult to talk about the A for my FWW. We went to a MC two weeks after DDay. He gave us a couple of assignments. One was for me to "stop and listen" to what my spouse had to say. Give her my total attention (something I had not done for ages). Her assignment was to show more affection towards me (by touch, talking or even a kiss goodbye). Things improved for awhile. We stopped seeing the MC and things stagnated. It amazes me now that things as small as the one you described can be so devasting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I made a statement to my W, "I love you with all of my heart." She didn't say anything. I asked her if she loved me with all of her heart? She couldn't say it. That one thing set me back as much as almost anything. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Little things like holding my hand out to her and it being ignored absolutely killed me. I would try to kiss her, only to be rebuffed. It didn't seem like much, but it was totally killing me. I had thoughts of just saying "the he!! with it and divorcing her" or worse going out and having my own A (to get even with her). In the end, I didn't. That doesn't make me a better person or anything, it's just how it happened. We all have to deal with our own situations and are looking for whatever it is that helps get us through it.

So I ask you now, even though it was your W's decision to say yes to the A, what was your part that made her so vulnerable to one? Have you acknowledged that with her? Have you taken the needs questionaire?

If you are unable to work on your marriage together, here are some other thoughts: start working on improving yourself, improving your relationship with God, with your kids, etc. You get the idea? Now, I don't say this lightly, because you have to start somewhere, unfortunately, at this time, it does not appear that your W wants to work on the same area that you do. So do something for yourself and be there ready to jump back into your marriage when your wife is ready. Unfortunately, they don't call this a roller coaster ride for nothing.

Good luck and God Bless!
RH

Wow. only words and Recovering H, your situation sounds word for word like ours. My husband is NCWalker, and I am the WW. I broke off the A finally 6/01/04. I have felt so deep in withdrawal(and Suzet..many questions that make it so much harder) that my H is getting hurt even more. I am not totally cold, but he needs to hear me say all the right things. He needs my intimacy terribly. I have not been able to give it. A lot of it is guilt. A lot is I don't know how I feel, and the pressure to "get it right" makes me withdraw.

I know I will recover those feelings for my H with time, but I don't know if he can wait. I don't really know what to do but give him what I can. I wish you, Recovering H, could talk to him. It makes me feel much less defective and evil when I hear WSs that have struggled with reconnecting.

Runawaypot:
You sound just like my W. This is exactly what she is dealing with. She is coming out of it, but it has been a long haul with up days and down. I would give my right arm to have my wife's affection and love. She is giving more now than before, and I'm glad. It still hurts so bad to have her hold back. I would love to sit and talk to you and pick your brain.

You can pick my brain anytime Recovering H. It might help me because I still don't know all the answers as to "why." I just want to come out of it so I can start to give to my H too. I am so sorry for your hurt, but please know it is not intentional. I know our choices have been selfish, but I don't think any WS sees what is to come, even in their emotions for their S, during the A. So sorry. It sounds like you are both working hard together. That is what it takes. Blessings!

I am sorry! That post should have been addressed to runningwithscissors!

RWS, this is my timeline:

I'm a FWW.

June 2003 Ended A unwillingly
Oct 2003 H found out/I confessed willingly
Oct 2003 - February 2004 - BAD, BAD times for us. Holding on, hanging in. Lots of MC. Me - total withdrawal, H - pain, confusion, hopelessness.
February 2004 - April 2004 - Fog lifting from me - reaching out totally for H.
April 2004 - chance sighting of OM. Me - unsure again of everything. Should we split up?
April 2004 - spoke to everyone here - realised it was just part of the rollercoaster.
April 2004 - June 2004: Lightbulb went off in my head, looked at H. He was the man I'd been in love with for 30 years.

Result: Happiness

I've read your other thread. I know you see things in black and white but I've read tons and tons about all this in the quest for recovery. My H is IN NO WAY to blame for what I did. There isn't a kinder, nicer, more loving man on this planet.

I know you don't have much truck with reasons but our MC sees this all the time - ALL the time - and the way I reacted to a major crisis in our lives (3 close family deaths in one year - all our parents except for my mother) was not that unusual.

BTW, I don't need to be beaten up over this all over again. Our MC and I have been over and over and over this.

Outcome, I've grown up and learnt a great deal about myself.

Jenny