Taking over where "meeting WW tomorrow and very nervous" left off...

First off, I can't begin to thank you fine, fine people for your help. I could go on.

I don't know where things stand, of course, but there was one thing I think I didn't handle quite right in the meeting yesterday.

A year ago the sparrow and I bought our first house. It's a 1924 bungalow in need of restoration. We worked hard on it during the first year, but there is still a very long way to go.

When the sparrow was talking about missing the house, she asked if there was anything she could come over and work on. I said no, that I'm not doing any house projects right now, that I'm taking a break from all that. I'm hesitant to improve the house because increasing its market value will be bad for me if I have to buy her out.

Afterward, it seemed she may have been offering an opportunity for the two of us to do something together, or at least expressing a wish to preserve some connection to her home, and I did not catch it.

So I'm thinking of inviting her to come over and help me with a project or two. I don't know if she'll say yes, but I feel like I need to re-establish some kind of more regular contact. I'm not going to move fast and start emailing her every day or anything, but I want to feel her out and see how she responds to the suggestion. I have an excuse for emailing her anyway.

I noticed from roughroad's "sessions" thread that SH had her emailing her WH every few days. I have had no such regular contact with the sparrow. For the past few weeks I've heard from her very little, and I have let her initiate all our contact. I plan to essentially continue that way, because if I reach out she could skitter away again.

Advice?

GC

silverlining <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ,

I would definately "mention" that you are going to be doing XXX around the house. Have it be something that she would enjoy doing or better yet something she might do better than you or you would need her help with.

You could ask if she remembers where she last saw the nailgun or the jigsaw. Tell her you were thinking about painting one of the bedrooms "burnt umber" (or some other ridiculous color) an if she thinks that it will look alright.

My opinion only, but that's what I would do.

BTW....I am jealous of your Bungalow. That is our dream home. There are a lot of them here in St. Pete/Tampa but they are either in need of lots of wook or price outta our range.

God Bless

Doug

<small>[ June 25, 2004, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: d_rose ]</small>

I don't necessarily recommend that much contact, YET. If you do that, you will be making her feel more comfortable and meeting her needs - which in the light of things SEEMS like a good idea. BUT - you don't want to make her feel good about divorcing. Let her continue to hurt - it's a necessary evil. IF she does start to resume some contact it might be ok to be open to the communication and have a good time - but don't be too available.

My H and I worked on projects together. It was a definate LB to the OM - so it definatly caused some waves there - but it didn't get me any closer to knowing what life without my H would be like.

Good points, H4F. I'm very much lurking on the SYMC boards and listening to the WWs and FWWs right now. My initial response of no to the sparrow was in line with my strategy of not letting her do any household stuff to ease her guilt.

I think I'll plan to work on something and just let her know I'm going to do it. If she wants to participate I'll let her make the first move.

Also, her place is ready on Sunday I guess. Should I offer to help her move?

GC

Just bide your time. I would not offer to let her work on the house with you right now. However you can still work on things. It would be very good for your self esteem.

I would not help her move. That would be too much like facilitating the A.

This is tricky, isn't it? I want to meet ENs, but I don't want to push too hard. I want to make her miss me, but I don't want to be so distant that she forgets me. I want to be a strong, supportive friend while she is lost and confused, but I mustn't make the A any easier.

Sheesh. I think I'll just play guitar for a while (it's my day off).

GC

I think the best course for you is to go on with your life, and make it a good life. I immersed myself in many projects - cleaned the house spotless, rearranged it, organized, started my own business, painted inside and outside, detailed the car, took up exercising, went out with friends.

It raised my self-esteem and WH noticed the changes.

I think your wife will notice too, and wonder if she is making a big mistake.

I think this could be an opportunity for fun, recreation, relaxed time together- a good chance for you to build her love bank.

An opportunity to build the relationship in a friendly way.

I see possibilites here.

my 2cents

again my situation is long distance so it wasn't like i could go to our house or that there was any chance meeting between me and my H. i would say asking her questions that are more legitimate and newsworthy. the concept of asking where the nailgun was actually a good one. things like that, just mentioning things matter-of-fact. course i could play the "i'm just a woman and don't know much about cars, bills, etc." card w/my H and did ask questions about things like that every once in awhile. but again, any type of contact i initiated was w/the thought that my H would read or listen to anything i had to say (mail, email, phone messages, etc.).

SH also has talked to my H twice so he has some additional insight into my situation. again suggestions would be to say things or bring up things that you think would be of interest to your W. I've left messages regarding an adam sandler movie, that i got my haircut and it reminded me of all the years that i cut his hair, that all the flowers were in bloom and it reminded me of when he tried to "press" some flowers in a book. you have to be careful not to initiate or trigger memories of times when the WS might view them as painful. i hope i explained that right. or it could just be about the whether. if you are having lots of rain you could say hope you able to keep dry or keeping your head above water.

i would advise not to help her move because of the possible things it would suggest or say to your wife. it's up to you whether you would even want to be there when she does. some people choose to be away as to avoid the pain or show them that you don't agree w/what they are doing but you realize you can't control them. some people choose to be there to make sure what is actually taken, or choose to be there just show that you're not intimidated by what she's going to do or is doing to you. regardless remain pleasant and not dramatic, use it as an opportunity to show change.

i probably didn't give you a lot of advice. but based on what you said transpired in the meeting it doesn't sound like there was a lot of "meat." there wasn't any M or R talk right? again, remember you cannot educate, change, or control her and this is a terribly agonizing slow chipping away process at the wall that your W has built around herself. bide your time as has been suggested and even though you may not be able to stop things you can certainly not do things to help them along. i think your idea of what you told your W about projects on the house and then what you told us about why you're not (might have to buy her out), is very judicious and a good way to go. sometimes we just have to be vague when we talk to our WS. and that goes as well for when you talk to others especially those that don't support what you are doing. don't tell them that you are going to fight to the death but that you are working on you and taking one day at a time.

hope this helps, keep up the goodwork, prayers to you, RR

when you said
"This is tricky, isn't it? I want to meet ENs, but I don't want to push too hard. I want to make her miss me, but I don't want to be so distant that she forgets me. I want to be a strong, supportive friend while she is lost and confused, but I mustn't make the A any easier."

boy how i could ever relate. it is a difficult balance. but you have had some good suggestions here. it could be an opportunity to build the LB but i would still be very cautious because this could get your hopes up and you could be caught off guard. remember that the average time for recovery is 2 years so even if she came back tomorrow there is still a lot of work ahead. my POV is that even though you may not be making any LB deposits as long as you are not making any LB withdrawals (according to her) then you are still doing a good job. and working on yourself cannot be stressed enough, this time is a true humbling experience and what is needed to get you in the right frame of mind to get you where you need to be.

could you share more of what you guys talked about?

God bless,rr

<small>[ June 25, 2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

silverlining (I like that, Doug <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ),

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I'll plan to work on something and just let her know I'm going to do it. If she wants to participate I'll let her make the first move.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to go against the consensus and say I'm not sure this is the best way to go.

You know your W best and if you think that she might have brought up working on the house as a way of getting back into the home, your life, etc, then perhaps you should let her in and do a spectacular Plan A while she's around.

If you told her you've laid off the house projects, and then you go and DO a project, and let her know you're doing it, but don't invite her to participate -- well, she may just feel like you're shunning her and rubbing her face in it.

My .02, if that.

yeah, now that turtlehead put it that way, that does make sense and is something to consider.

Excellent point... you said you wanted her to make the first move, but maybe that's exactly what she was doing.

I don't think I would help her move, as long as the A was going on. I helped my WW move (before I knew about the A), and that was one of the most painful things I ever had to do.

Of course, on the other hand, if you don't help her, the OM may. In which case, he's getting LB deposits, instead of you.

I'm not sure of the right answer here; just something to think about...

nevermind about telling me about more of the conversation. i see that you posted that on the other thread and will read that now.

Ugh. Here's an email she just sent - the first she's sent me in weeks. I'm sick. It feels like I made her feel like her affair is just swell. She comes across as upbeat and fine and all business.

--

Subject: business!

Hi [GC],

Are you still going to the [health club]? If not, it would save money to take you off the account.

FYI there's a charge of $35.00 for [GC subscription] on [sparrow's credit card].

Please send me the info regarding my IRA.

I will call [bank] today about transferring the loan / title on my car & let you know.

Here's the local number for [health insurance]: XXX-XXX-XXXX. You could call to ask about a
COBRA plan if you're concerned about not being covered for a pre-existing condition through [your employer] [NOTE: I use her employer's health care currently].

I was wondering whether there's a time that you're planning on being away from the house this weekend. Do you still have band practice on Sunday? I would like to pick up some essentials for my new place. Thanks.

Take care,

[sparrow]

--

yep, sometimes it just doesn't feel good to be right. i thought something like this might happen but you know what, just let it roll of your shoulders answer the email the best way that you can that still paints a good picture of you and keep doing what you are doing. remember you are in a race, it's a marathon not a sprint. no athlete starts a race w/the idea that they won't finish. that's what we all want to do is to finish this race so we do what we can for as long as we can. when we are out of energy or feel that we are headed that way then just step back and regroup. continue to pace yourself and just don't expect too much from your W right now no matter what she says or does.remember in order to stay in the race YOU have to continue to follow your words w/actions.

more people will reply w/better words than I. wishing you continued strength and prayers, RR

I think this means it's time to stay dark - very very dark. DO NOT be her friend right now - it eases her guilt enough to keep her on the path of divorce. She needs to feel the pain of REAL seperation.

I would answer her email. Do what she asks that you agree with. I would not be gone when she comes to get things though.

Here's my reply to the email. I know sweating this is a little ridiculous, but I guess I want to convey a subtle message that I am not happy, and without saying so to not agree to make myself scarce while she clears out.

--

[sparrow]

Your account number with [IRA fund] is XXXXXXXX, pin #XXXXXXX.
I want to keep my membership at [the health club].
I will look into health insurance issues soon.
I'll probably be here Sunday. Come by any time.

[GC]

absolutely predictable!!! Once again, the WS has read the manual and followed the script beautifully. If you can, try to remind yourself that this is all part of the process, and you will always be one step ahead of her.
I agree with all here - do not help her move. Let OM help her move. She will spend the day remembering the last time she moved - it was when she moved into the bungalow with you, and the two of you had such great plans for the future. Then she will look up, and see HIM - the man who would leave a pregnant wife to pursue an adulterous realtionship with another mans wife.
I also agree with someones comment here that you should be home when she comes to pick stuff up. You could respond with something like "Please stop by sometime between 2 and 4, so I can help sort through things with you.
My WH would come into the house whenever I was gone, and take stuff. It was never anything big - usually his fishing stuff, but when I would come home and see even further evidence that he had been there, and taken away part of our life, it would kill me. I don't know if it will be better to sit there watching it take place, but I think she needs to remember that you are there, that she is not just taking "stuff" she is tearing apart a family.
I know you are discouraged by this - these set backs are like a knife to the heart - but it is part of the process. It means that things are moving along the way the manual says they will.
Remember that he is putting pressure on her at this point - trying to keep her in the fog.
I know you would have liked for her to say "nevermind, I am not going to move, I want to come home, I am over it" BUT that generally leads to a false recovery. In the long run, it will be better if she does move into her own apartment, and get a real taste of life without you - and let that Bas*** try to meet all of her needs. And he will be trying to meet her needs while he is also hearing from his pregnant wife, who will want him to support his child. This relationship has disaster written all over it.
I know you are hurting right now - I can hear it in your words - but as an outsider, looking in, I was worried that she would wait a week or so before she sent an email like this. I knew it would come, I only hoped that it wouldn't drag out. She is going through the script quickly.
I have a friend who has been through this - but her WH came back and their marriage is now stronger than ever. She said he used to write long, nasty letters to her,about how he hated her, and wished she would just die so he could be released from this hell that he is livng in, etc. She kept praying for him. He even visited a lawyer several times. But he is back today.
There is hope.