Digest version: a week ago I met my WW to talk about things. It was a very nice meeting. I told her I don't want to get divorced. She was sad, sorry, guilty, ashamed. I comforted her. I told her everything I know from talking with OM's W. She seemed miserable. I told her I planned to forgive her. She thanked me.

The next day, she sent a breezy, casual email. The tone of it was as if the meeting the night before had not happened. She said with no shame that she planned to have OM come to our house with her so she could pick up her things for her new place. I put the kibosh on OM entering my home in the kindest way possible.

Today I sent her an email wishing her a happy 4th. She responded by casually telling me she's going up North to spend the weekend with OM and to meet his family, and wished me a happy 4th.

If anybody can, please help me understand. How can she discuss her affair so casually? In our meeting I said I don't want a divorce. I said I wanted our M to work. I said I had problems to work on. I was compassionate and giving. I comforted her in her pain and confusion. Does she not know that her breezy announcements about the presence of OM in her life are killing me? It seems like mindless cruelty. What is she thinking? I know, she's not. But really. How can she do this?

GC

Hi Graycloud,
It takes all kinds. My W had tremendous guilt, but of course that didn't stop her.

Is there a history of infidelity in her family? Her father?

cwmac

She's not thinking about you or your feelings - period. This is all about her - I don't know how else to explain it to you. The mindset that she is in is not NORMAL. Been there done that - I can guarantee you it's true. She's in full force taker mode - not because she wants to be, but to protect herself. From what??? From herself. Hard to explain....it's a wayward thing.

When you act friendly to her - she treats you like a friend. She'd tell a friend about her weekend plans with her boyfriend - after all, in her world that's perfectly ok.

If it helps you out at all - she'll 'get' the pain one day. It will kill you all over again to see her in anguish when she realizes and begs for forgiveness for hurting you so deeply. Been there too - ouch and double ouch.

The only infidelity in sparrow's family: sparrow's grandfather divorced her grandmother for another woman when Grandma was in her 20s. This grandmother, a strict Catholic, raised the sparrow's father and uncle alone, and never remarried. The husband was never seen or heard from again. This grandmother knows about the sparrow's A, thanks to my MIL, and she is very displeased, though I don't know if they have spoken.

Sparrow's father died of cancer in the mid-80s when the sparrow was 15.

GC

cwmac, that helps but confuses me.

I guess you mean she's letting the taker run free to somehow silence the voice inside that's telling her that this is all horrible and cruel and wrong. I guess I sort of see...

I wonder if there's any way short of going into plan B for me to tell her how painful this is for me.

I'm seeing an IC today and may call the Harleys also.

GC

No, GC, there is no way for you to truly explain to her how painful this is to you right now. You can tell her - and it's not wrong to share that information - but it will immediatly charge the guilt which will be followed by defense mode. She'll cover it with justification and blame. She's not interested in what this is doing to other people - heck, she wouldn't believe it anyway. Look at everything his WIFE is going through with their child and the baby on the way!! Sparrow barely ACKNOWLEDGES that she's there, other than with rolling her eyes! She's in the "why can't you just get over it" mode. I REMEMBER it. I just didn't really believe it was that big of a deal - people go through it all the time, right?

Like I said - when the fog clears, she'll get it. And it will hurt. She will be embarassed and feel horrible about what kind of person she had to become in order to seek out 'true love' that only turned out to be a horrible mistake. But this is not something you can help her 'get'.

H4F, you're going to have to start charging me. Sparrow's actions during the last week stand in such contrast to her demeanor when we had our meeting, it's still got me bamboozled.

It looks like plan B is pretty likely. I need to do something jarring. Not that it will do anything but make it easier for her at first, but at least she'll have that letter and read it and see the words. Even if she does respond by saying "Ppppffft! Get over it!" At least I won't have to hear it.

I'm not going to decide until I speak with the Harleys, but I'm going to start writing a letter tonight.

Thanks again,

GC

GC,

I think it is fairly easy to figgure out what is going on. Sparrow meets OM. Sparrow has an A with OM. She wants a Divorce to leave you and stay with OM. You say no Divorce. She thinks an A within the M is OK with you and treats you like a friend. She therefore has her cake and eats it too.

Go dark young man. It will protect your feelings. She will not forget you. Even if she divorces you, she will come back. I'll bet my $.02 on it.

Until then, work on being the best man you can be, and enjoy life as best as you can.

<small>[ July 01, 2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: RAG ]</small>

There ya go - RAG just billed you for $.02. LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She doesn't know herself right now - there's no way that you could know her. I remember looking in the mirror one day and thinking - jeez, who are you anyway??

When my 1st W wanted a seperation to find herself, she came back pregnent with OM child. 12 years later, she left again. That lead to divorce. At the time, someone told me she would come back. I did not believe it. The 19 years with her was pure missery. Lo and behold, a few years later, here she come back to be taken back. By then, I'd had enough, she was just looking for a meal ticket anyway, so I said no.

Since then, she has been trying to break up my marriage with present wife. Even if I find myself single for whatever reason, I don't want her back.

The answer is, SHE DID COME BACK.

Be excellent to each other.

Ronald.

PS: She has been married 4 or 5 times since our divorce.

GC~

As a FWW, who at one time was angry and frustrated with my H for fighting me on a divorce--I think she is giving herself justification for carrying on w/ om. ("He won't give me a D, screw it, I'm gonna do what pleases me, whether I'm M or not...", type of attitude) Of course it's a bunch of bunk, but she's fog bound, and being incredibly selfish right now.

My other impression, is that in order to make her A seem like normal behavior, and again, justified--she has to do "normal" things with him, and talk about him and the A in "normal" ways. As if it's all okay, and a totally acceptable R.

Hang in there, and keep the faith.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If anybody can, please help me understand. How can she discuss her affair so casually? In our meeting I said I don't want a divorce. I said I wanted our M to work. I said I had problems to work on. I was compassionate and giving. I comforted her in her pain and confusion. Does she not know that her breezy announcements about the presence of OM in her life are killing me? It seems like mindless cruelty. What is she thinking? I know, she's not. But really. How can she do this?/</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi GC,

First, just know that I've been in your shoes, and so sorry you're living this.

Being in Plan A does not mean you don't tell your wife that her affair is hurting you. If she is talking "casually" to you about her affair, IMHO you should make sure she knows how much her having an affair hurts you using "I Feel" statements, and in the same breath that you are a stander for your marriage to her.

There has to be a line drawn, and NOT saying how much this hurts you is soft-enabling her to feel free to selfishly tell you things about her wonderful affair.

Protect yourself, let her know you "FEEL" hurt from her actions. Or nicely but quickly change the subject if she starts talking to you about it again.

I know this is hard, and I know you want her to feel safe talking to you about anything, just start drawing some boundaries for yourself.

Be loving but strong for yourself.

Prayers,
Jo

Thanks, R., A., and Jo.

If I decide to hold off on plan B a little while longer, I will try to find a way to tell her that casual discussion of her A is too painful for me to be involved in. I would like for her to know how the room spins and how my breathing stops and I lose feelings in my hands and feet and just wanna die when she does this. But I know not to make myself too pitiful as well. If I do try to give her this message, do I have to stay away from the word "affair"? I think she doesn't consider this one because she didn't go to bed with him, supposedly, until she said she wanted a D. I don't know that she has, I just assume she has by now. She started acting single after she dropped the "D" bomb.

Also - I live in a no-fault state, so she can divorce me whether I like it or not, but I do not mean to cooperate with the process, and I've told her that (she responded, "I respect that."). I guess that might just make her want to do it more, but my conscience won't allow me to help things along.

I do find the idea of setting a boundary but remaining in communication a little while longer an appealing one... I do need to prepare for plan B though.

GC