when i was at our house recently i found a note from the OW to my H in a notebook. not sure when it was written but at least within the past 6 months, they only met last september. anyway, i wanted to share it because i guess i need to hear some validation and reassurance. i'm going to type it exactly as she wrote it, spelling and grammar errors and all. the OW in my situation is 20 yrs old, single, and still lives at home, they meet in a college class, apparently had at least one class together this past spring and undoubtedly have a class together in the fall.

*************************************************
"I'm sorry for anything that comes out of my mouth today - I'm just in an emotional, bad mood. I'm getting really bumbed about not having a job, and I just thought that if I excepted the Gap job until one of the better onse called me back, then I wouldn't fill like such a slacker. It was selfesh of me to ask - I know how you feel about Silver Sands - It kinda makes me feel like you don't trust me, but not really - I know it just because you love me and don't want to lose me. That's not a bad thing; I don't want to lose you either.
And I'm sorry about the whole coward coment too. I didn't meen for it sound like I really thought of as a coward - I was trying to make a joke that would reasure you that I would be there with you. But well, it really did hurt my feelings when you compared me to her. Oh well, it's for sure that I will never make that same mistake again. It's good for me to know these things - even if they hurt me. The only way I'll ever change is if you let me know about it... I know I'm in a crapy mood right now, but that's okay...I've learned something.
I love you - Always - forever!
Love, OW xoxo
**************************************************

that's it. it was handwritten in pencil on a small sheet of paper and folded.

I guess what i see here is issues of TRUST, the Silver sands is an outlet mall, so i guess my H was implying he would be jealous or didn't want guys hitting on her or something along those lines. Also a big LB on her part to call my H a coward. as we all know it doesn't matter what intention we have behind what we say because it will almost mean something different to the person we say it to. that he actually compared her to me again is causing them to LB each other. then she is saying that she will change if he wants her to. let's not even go into the mispelled words, grammar, and just using the wrong words entirely (just had to get that in there because so many of us use shortcuts when typing, including me).

so what do you think? am on target on my thinking that things have already started between them? it actually didn't hurt me to find this but somewhat give me some hope that their R isn't all it's cracked up to me. although as much as my H put up w/me I"m sure he'll put up with a lot w/her. I'll just keep praying and doing what i can.

Sounds like there are already problems. You just keep being the loving wife. She will dump him. And what can he possibly see in her?

RR,

I don't mean to sound mean, but OW needs to retake English 101 at college... ;-) If her English writing skills do not improve, she may not be able to get a job any time soon, even at the GAP!!! ;-)

This just shows you again, RR, that this OW is no competition at all to you.

This relationship is not going to last. Your husband sounds insecure and sooner or later she's probably going to get tired of it and move on to another guy. She's only 20 years old and more than likely this is not going to be the last relationship in her life. Of course he is not going to trust her. She probably shouldn't be trusted and sooner or later he will find that out - probably the hard way. She sounds like a little girl in this message,not a grown mature woman. It sounds like your husband is exercising a little bit of control over her, like telling her where she can and cannot work because of his insecurity over other men hitting on her. Well, there are always going to be other men around her and they are going to hit on her.

I just think that this A between them is going to get real old real soon. Introducing her to his family is a bad move and I think it is all happening way to fast and she going to feel crowded soon.

All that talking about "I'll change if you want me to change. Tell me what you want me to be like." is such cr** and he is setting himself up for a big blowout.

I would be very surprised if this is going to last another 6 or 12 months...

Just my humble opinion...

Kati

believer, well the answer is he sees everything right now and like I said he probably thinks of all the things that he put up w/me and that she isn't near as bad as I am. but that is because he's in a fog, he's in an addiction, he's been abducted by aliens, and most importantly he doesn't see things as God sees them and I just pray that he will start to see them that way. I really am trying to be the lighthouse and fly by my instrument panel but I still miss him and love him and just want an opportunity to work on our M. thank you for replying and your kind words and for all the loving support you give to everyone, i hope that we all give you what you need from here to because I know God is taking care of you and is with you even when we are not. prayers to you, RR


Kati, i came back to edit this to reply to your post. thank you again for all your support and yes it would seem that she needs some more education in English and if i remember correctly you're from Germany and you picked up on that too! again, i guess i'm just wanting some additional support, it's almost sad that i say that because i think of all the times that i wasn't supportive of or to my H and now all i'm wanting is support. what can i say it's a human need. I know in my heart that their R however long it does last won't last in the end, i'm just not sure where i will fit in all this at that time. thanks again for your encouragment, RR

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

My guess is that he only wanted one thing from her, and that he was telling her whatever she wanted to hear, to get it.

And judging her personality by her note,it will get very boring very fast.

Do you get the feeling that some men are just saying they are emotionally attached because it sounds better than admitting they just want to have sex with a young woman?

And if he is insecure, having a young inexperienced woman fawn on him is a temporary ego boost.


I predict this will be over very shortly.

In fact he may already have had enough but doesn't know how to get rid of her, esp if they are in class together. He might be taking the cowards way out by waiting for her to move on to someone else.

Or I could be completely wrong.

Keep doing plan A.

RR -

I don't have much time but I wanted to drop in. I read the letter. I say this is a good sign for you. She's 20...let's think about that for a minute.....she's 20 and she doesn't have a job....she lives at home with her parents and she's dating a marrired man. I could go on and on but I'll stop there.

She's going to wake up. One morning she's going to get out of bed, look at herself in the mirror and say "what is wrong with me? Look at my life!" Not that there's anything wrong with being 20 and not having a job while you are in school but add that to the fact that she's obviously not the 'sharpest tack on the board' you can only imagine what her life must be like.

She's not going to be in the picture much longer. I can already see the strain on their relationship.

Ok, I have to run. I pray you have a good day today...and tomorrow...and tomorrow....and tomorrow.....

shul, i think you may be right on many accounts but he definitely has not had enough, he's taking her on a trip next week to meet some of his family. i would probably think that if/when it goes bad b/w them it will be her who breaks things off. i do think sex is a big part of their R. I mean it was for us before and after we got M. i really do think if our sex life had been close to what he wanted or felt he needed then we wouldn't have had the problems that we did. don't the harley's say that as long as the top 2 or 3 needs are being met then the others are usually pushed aside as something that can be lived with or without so to speak.

well me being in another state just kind of propelled things (moved because of job and he was supposed to join me this summer after he graduated). i mean i wasn't there for him to have sex w/and even then i wasn't the most attractive person on many levels and i let that build a wall b/w me and my H. of course now i know so much more than i did before and just hope and pray i will be given the opportunity.

i know she is young but then again so was i. got married after i had only been 18 for 6 mos. but then again, our R didn't begin as an A and that will never ever change between them no matter what happens to us. i'd also like to think the fact that i've never been w/anyone else eventually sinks in w/my H. i don't really think that the OW can say that.

he does have an extremely fragile ego and self-esteem, i guess i really failed at lifting him up along these lines. he told me how it first started was that she was just a pretty girl who was nice to him. i guess i had become unpretty and i wasn't nice to him. i accept those things and i have changed a lot, again just wanting the opportunity to show him because i know if i could he would see things differently.

thanks shul for your reply.

RR, this note surprised me. I knew she was young, and I knew her circumstances, but I didn't see what a child your H is with.

I hear you saying some things here about how much your H put up with from you, which you haven't gone into in any of your other recent posts that I can recall. Did you have a good relationship? My W put up with things from me as well, but what gives me some hope is that we truly loved each other very, very much, and we were best friends. I hear the voice of a pessimistic realism telling you to not hold your breath. But remember the foundation your H's new R is built on. I don't know if he's already gotten over his guilt, not gone near it yet, or is so bad he doesn't feel much, but this new relationship is weak, weak, weak.

I have the same fear nagging at me that I think you have. The A will probably end eventually, but that does not mean either of our WSes will want us back. Nor does it mean we'll want them back. But anything is possible.

GC

GC, well i guess i'm amshamed and quite sad to admit that we didn't have a good R. i mean i didn't really think we were much different from other married couples and that's the truth. but we came very close to separating a few years ago, in fact told our families that we were going to, i of course had no intention on getting a D but just thought we needed to separate. during that time my H said that he didn't even know if i liked him and thought i was just staying w/him out of pitty or because i didn't want to be alone. so obviously he felt this way for a reason. but i soon realised that i had to start doing some changes and convinced my H to work things out. i did do some changes and he gave me some things that said how much he had noticed my changes and how much he appreciated it but i still didn't think like i do now. i was still under the belief system that no matter what i did my H would never leave me or have an A.

he mentioned this again in a letter he wrote me in may that he didn't know for such a long time that i even loved him. my own mother asked my H if we were going to D one time. she has also told me that she doubted that i even loved my H at times. i just didn't know any better. i was ignorant. just the plain truth is i just didn't meet any of my H's top needs at least what i can surmise and w/that goes not having a good R and it had been that way for at least 4 or 5 years. he keeps saying how when we were going to separate before that a switch inside him just went off and just can't come back on that even though i had showed some changes it just was too little too late.

my guess he just realised how bad it really was and just how unhappy he really was when he met the OW. i do know he has felt guilt and has apologized for what i feel is sincere for what he has done but he says he just can't go back and doesn't feel that way for me anymore and he just wants to be happy and for the first time in a long time in his life he says he's happy.

so i guess i don't know if i've answered your question or not. he's perfectly aware of the age difference. but his dad is 16 years older than his mom and they've been M for 34 yrs, so again, the whole age thing i don't think is a real card that can be played. it would be better to think of the maturity level and as you said the foundation of their R which is built on sand. I just pray that they will both realise this and end the A.

thanks gray for your reply.

^

And here comes the part we BSs hate to hear.

Despite the statistics on 2nd Ms, I think we BS who acknowledge our faults and work to save our marriages are more likely to succeed than to fail in future marriages, should our first ones not survive the crisis.

And so just remember that you'll bring all this wisdom to your next relationship, should this one fail, and you can be confident that it will be a strong, healthy, and very happy one.

GC

<small>[ July 08, 2004, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

RR
That letter is really a joke. What has become of our school systems?

As I read your post, it strikes me that these teeniebopper OW can't hold a candle to us BS's. The age difference alone is almost a generation for pete's sake! Unattached, unencumbered by kids (sometimes) or responsibilities and with way too muchtime on their hands...no wonder our WH's enjoy the attention so much.

We are strong, together, experienced, committed women and mothers who maybe slacked off a little, unknowingly. We don't deserve to be shunned for these pipsqueaks! Even when the A dies off (and it most certainly will), we reel to fill the shoes of someone that WE used to be...carefree and worry-free. We cannot go back there (I know I don't want to).

The changes we must make will not be accepted by him while he is so foggified (new WAID word!). My WH is starting to detox, and he still doesn't really WANT to see the changes. He doesn't want to "go back" to our previous R, sometimes suggesting a D, saying there is no way it is going to be better. This, of course, is all FOGTALK. Do they mail out scripts or something to the WS's??? They all sing the same song at one time or another.

WAID,

"Foggified" is going to catch on, just wait.

GC

RR, all need to be said are said by the experts here. I do see the light here. This OW is not a high "quality" one, and I see problems between them already. please hang in here, they won't last long. Prayers for you.

he's taking her on a trip next week to meet some of his family.

This can work in your favor.

When he is there he will see himself and her through their eyes, and realise what a mistake he has made.

He will feel like a fool.

GC, thanks and hope you are doing okay in your own struggles and plans, you're are already way ahead in this game than i was and hope i can continue to "help" (if you think i have that is)w/any questions you may have about what to do or say given this or that.

WAID, thank you for giving me some self-esteem back and for sharing some of your own story and hurt. so much of what you said is so dead on. my H already says he can't go back and doesn't believe he will ever be happy w/me, etc. i don't want to go back either at least not to the last 7 years of our marriage when i guess we started to have problems. do you worry that the changes you've made aren't even the real you anymore? sometimes i really wonder about that. i really honestly like who i am now but at the same time, in truth this is not the person who my H fell in love with and how will that play a role in all this?

LNH, my dear sweet friend who is hurting so much herself, thank you for all you have done for me and hope that i have in some measure been able to support you as well.

Shul, thanks again for your words and i do pray that you're right and God will use this time and situation to continue to work on my H.

thanks all for taking the time to read my post and offer words of encouragement i guess i still needing a little more of that right now in my attempts to have the faith i need to have and trust God no matter what happens. i really think i believe and do a good job of it most of the time but just more and more images and possibilities are coming into my head and i just beg and plead God to get them out of my head or prevent them from getting there in the first place.

continued strength and prayes to all, RR

<small>[ July 08, 2004, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

RR, just read that pathetic letter. OMG, you THINK she is meeting his top needs. However, unless your H is totally illiterate, I think maybe she isn't meeting the need intelligent folks have to be with someone who at least knows how to spell. People here are saying she will grow tired of him. Well, in time I think he will grow tired of her just out of boredom.

I don't know your story, but let me just say this, as someone who has been married for 19 yrs. Don't be too hard on yourself for the problems in your M. I went to a Retrouvaille weekend in April and the speaker said every R goes through the disillusion and alienation stages. If we don't communicate our thoughts and feelings to one another how can we improve if there is a problem? The 1st 10 yrs. of our M was really tough. My H and I actually had gotten to a really good place in our M before we experienced a year with very bad life events, H's mid-life crisis, and a predatory OW. Bottom line, no one is safe.

If your H doesn't get his SH** together, you will in time find someone who will want and love the intelligent woman you are. And your H will be stuck realizing he lost you for this little girl whose ambition is to work at the Gap. PLEEEAAASSSE! Hang in there! CV

RR your H is definetly "FOGGIFIED!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I just read this poor excuse for a letter and I think this OW is simply a ego boost and from hearing some of the issues in your marriage, I'm sure admiration was one of his EN's.

Hang in there and I also agree I hope he wakes up soon, because I see no real longevity in their A, but I do see YOU the BS getting tired. Try to persevere and know this child is not a threat, the threat is the LB's in your M. Stick to Plan A and remember it's all about actions not words.

Good Luck..

RR
Good questions...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
do you worry that the changes you've made aren't even the real you anymore? sometimes i really wonder about that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that there is a BS fog too that waxes and wanes in intensity for us. It's hard to see the changes until the A is over because neither of you are thinking straight right now. It's a catch 22 if you ask me. Typical for WAID family:
WS: I won't/can't come back to the same M. There have got to be some changes.
BS: I agree with you 100%. Let's try to work on this together.
WS: I don't think things will EVER be good in our M. The OP has made me see that someone else can really care about me.
BS: Well, it's hard for us to work on the M if there is OP involved. The addiction makes it hard to go on.
WS: You will have to change first, then maybe we'll see... (if I personally hear "we'll see" one more time I am going to SCREAM!)

This sound familiar to anyone else???? Change is hard when there is so much waffling that you need a gallon of syrup! We are going to be forever soured by this mess. Hopefully, if our WS come back, we can really walk the walk instead of only talking the talk.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
i really honestly like who i am now but at the same time, in truth this is not the person who my H fell in love with and how will that play a role in all this?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, 7 years ago, we all were different. I don't think it's possible to ever go back to who you were at that time. Your love has matured and grown during that time. This infatuation stage of the A is giving him adrenalin rushes that have faded naturally from the M. NO ONE can sustain an adrenalin rush for very long. It wears you out. Show him the strong wonderful W that you know you are now, lovable and wonderful.

Rough -

Please don't tell me you are starting your doubt your progress here! You have come so far. Look at your milestones...

New faith
New Church
New Friends
New place
Let's not forget the biggie for all women out there: NEW JEANS!

Come on sister...you need to stop for a minute and smell the roses. You might not be the same person you were 7 years ago but I'd venture to say that you have grown a lot in that time.

This OW is a child and has no idea what the real world is like. They are fighing over her getting a job at an outlet mall...this is not something that takes place in a relationship that has a future.

Oh and I am love'n the post from What amIDoing I too believe that BSs have their own type of fog....and being Fogified is not something you realize at the time.