I've seen you helping out a few others on the boards here, and there is no one here who has analyzed these matters any more than you have. Keep it up. The newbies are popping up like mushrooms. Arrrrgh!

I had to work a boring event at the arena where I work over the 4th of July, and had nothing to do, so I started posting again. There weren't many people on the boards during that time, so I guess I picked up the slack while others were with family and such.

You sound great. Your great sense of humor always shines through, but now without the (ulp) venom. I'd say if you haven't driven FWH back to the FOW by now, you are going to have to keep him! LOL!

Things steadily improve for me. My FFOFSW (formerly fogged out freak show wife) has become more romantic, more touchy-feely and a little more articulate. All to my delight! I have made Plan A my new lifestyle, I guess. As I said before in my life history post, we didn't have a particularly good marriage before all this stuff, and in spite of that, she may actually be falling back in love with me.

It's no horse race, but it just gets a little itty-bitty better each day. I've quit measuring life between us in time frames less than a week. When something goes awry, I always diffuse it before anger sets in. I've not become a doormat, but I've become a pretty good ambassador of open communication and honesty. It seems to be rubbing off. When we walk anywhere, she'll grab my hand or arm, when before she'd walk behind me?! Go figure.

I'm slowly trying to get her to see her low self-esteem has effected many parts of her life, and I continue to get her more involved with pro-active decision making that she used to defer to me. I now answer her questions or address her situations by tossing it back to her in the form of questions that make her take charge of whatever the topic is. No more displacement of her problems onto me!

Hopefully, when things are a bit more in order in her home day-care, she'll have more time to start back to seeing the counselor about the low self esteem, after a couple of months off.

Enough about me. Give me an update on CV55, my MB buddy though all this! I noticed you started about a month after me, and have twice as many posts. What's up with that ?!!!! I'm hoping that you have taken at least ONE of my suggestions, and interjected some fun into your life (lives). This whole process can just drain us of life. The fun part has been the catalyst that allowed my FWW and I to rediscover what we used to like about each other. I hope that's been true for you, too!

Hoping to hear from you soon.

Your MB buddy, SD

SD, well now you've confused me. I'm in a real dillema. Do I answer your post on GQll or Recovery. I'm actually thinking if anyone besides you reads this, what folks will it do less damage to? Since there seems to be a certain sick humor emerging on GQll, I think I'll post here. Anyway, nice to get a personal hello from you, as apposed to your usual lifting me up after one of my whiny, depressing vents. Which by the way, I ALWAYS appreciate.

Well, I've got to write fast because "The Fam" is giving me a hard time for being on this computer. We are going to see The King tonight. No, not Elvis, Eric Clapton. I thought to myself, "Well, that's one thing the 30something OW could never share with H. That special experience of growing up in the 60s and 70s. Experiencing 1st hand some of the greatest bands in the history of rock&roll." And as you know, there is always the shared experience of the altered state of consciousness that was a part of our lives back then. I then realized Eric hooked up with a 20something, which totally blew my theory of sharing the whole generational experience together. I am definitely babbling here. I'm not used to writing fast. I like to take my time!

SD, I'll have to write after the concert or tomorrow. "The Fam" is now getting very annoying and threatening to leave without me if I'm not ready. So I will fill you in later on where the heck I am presently. Just one question. Do you want the MB party line version, or the CV (not always the best MBer) version? Let me know! CV

CV, please don't write after the concert. You may be, once again, in the altered state of the past. Try to take shallow breaths!

Give me the good old fashioned, tell it like it is, no holds barred, CV55 Black Mamba version, full of fact and laced with barbed humor! No watered down stuff!

I'm so looking forward to your response!!! LOL!!!

Hope the concert is a fabulous experience for the FAM!!

SD

Just popped in to say hi. You have both been a constant source of support to me; albeit in different ways. I'll sign off before I ruin the mood. As SD said this is no horse race.

Blessings
WOE

^^bump^^

Well, I'm back! As I just wrote on DipiT's thread, "The King" was awesome! I could listen to Clapton play that guitar all night long. The man's still got it! However, there were no altered states of consciousness for me. That wouldn't be a very good influence for my teenage sons. Plus these concert halls are so conservative these days. I didn't even smell one whiff of pot floating around. I really do feel like an old lady. Every time I go to a concert I say the same thing. "Back in the old days, when I went to concerts, the bands didn't stop playing after one encore. They would just keep on playing and playing. Now after one encore the lights go on, and everyone leaves like sheep." At least Eric played for 2 hrs., with no talking.

My boys don't say too much, but I know they were impressed. Oldest S plays electric guitar, and younger S plays Bass guitar. I feel fortunate because these boys like the same music as me. It's pretty funny when you think of the fact that our generation is the 1st where the kids and parents actually might be into the same music. I know my parents weren't listening to Led Zepplin with me when I was a teenager. Another good thing about the concert. I figure if I can forgive Clapton for being an OP, maybe I will one day forgive H. Hey, George Harrison even forgave him.

OK, enough about the concert. Now for the uncensored version of the truth about CV the Black Mamba. SD, I think it's so funny that you always think I'm great if I'm not posting one of my whiny threads. HMMMM, there must be a lot of those threads if you noticed I have twice as many posts as you. I think that just points out that you are a much better MBer than I am. As far as my helping people on these boards, well that's funny too. I find myself thinking to myself, "Oh just dump the WS and get on with your life." Of course I do keep those thoughts to myself. Then there was the recent words of wisdom I gave to Mr. E about what to do when thoughts of OP come into your mind while having sex. "Just picture the op as a cockroach and make them scurry out of the room and your mind." Yes, I am just full of MB words of wisdom. God only knows why H and I are still together. Although I did do a pretty DA*& good Plan A for quite a while.

OK, I will try to stop the babbling and tell you about NOW. H and I were doing pretty well up until a few weeks ago. I felt like I was seeing more and more of him. I was actually feeling comfortable enough to allow my anger to kick in. Didn't LB. Then I started to feel a distance. I'm way too intuitive. The SF also began decreasing, along with affection that was becoming more constant. H was being nice, just distant. So last Th and Fr I started wondering if he had been in contact with the "B". We talked last Fr and he hasn't been in contact, but she was still invading our lives. Somehow, he doesn't know why, he began pining away for her. He didn't want to tell me so handled it by withdrawing. Well once I dragged that out of him he was better. This is a pattern between us. He feels better, but then I feel like SH**. I just thought, is OW EVER going to be out of our lives? I want to be indifferent, but as long as he keeps the fantasy alive she's with us.

We went out of town the next day. We were both looking forward to it. We were staying with his B and his GF, without kids. To my dismay I had a major trigger. H and I were alone the 1st day walking around this cool little town. I felt this huge sadness. I remembered all the times H and I went away and how we always enjoyed doing that together. Last year, at around this time, we went away. He was totally distant, and of course now I know why. I actually told him that he needed to cool the friendship with OW. Told him it was really inappropriate because I had overheard him listening to her whine about her M problems on the phone. Naive little me never thought he was boinking her at the time. Of course I'm still pissed he didn't come clean then. He even had mediocre sympathy sex with me, which is sooooo humiliating. Back to last weekend. So I felt really crappy because I knew that everything was now so different between us. Where I once was totally comfortable talking to H, now I felt inhibited because of his stupid A. I ended up telling him my feelings and he didn't handle it very well. He was having a good time with me and was bummed that I felt the need to talk about this bummer stuff. So he ended up getting cold towards me. Now that pissed me off. I put up with his A for 9 months, hell since the January d-day, and he can't listen to one of my triggers?

Well, we got through that whole thing and had a good time. Saw a psychic on the way home. She acknowledged that I have been going through a really challenging time and my feet haven't landed on the ground yet. She told me it would be another 2 yrs. before they do, and then I will look back and understand what happened. At this I shrieked, "Two more years of this?" I never gave her one detail of what was happening by the way. I think she was afraid I might want my money back and changed the time frame to maybe 1 1/2 yrs. of more hell. Oh lucky me!

Then, as we are pulling into our driveway on Monday from our trip H says that he read in an A book it can take the length of time to get over OW as the the length of the A. Well, that led to my anger coming right out. I got into my famous line of, "If you're R was so "F"ing perfect go be with her. Because I am getting tired of her being in our M." More angry talk from me at bedtime. I can't even remember what I said, but H has been really great since. Seems to have turned another corner. Of course I totally don't trust these turned corners anymore. For now, he seems to be realizing just how manipulative she was, and that gee, I'm pretty "F"ing great. Well, maybe those are my words, not H's. But I do think he knows who the better person to be with is, and it ain't her.

Now this is where you are a much better MBer than I am. You are doing this beautiful, to perfection Plan A. Your W is falling back in-love with you. Allelujia!!!! Then there's me. "Screw Plan A! I'm tired of Plan A." I'm wondering if I will ever fall back in-love with H. Respect and integrity are biggies for me. He really blew that. And all this pining away for OW has taken it's toll, even if I know it's all bull$$$$. At the beginning of all this I felt deep feelings of love for H. Now I wonder if it was just my adrenalin(sp?), and not wanting the "B" to win. My feelings of love just aren't as strong the longer this strings along.

On the positive side I told H we need to begin again to clean out the wound, as Steve Harley explained it. We have hardly had any A talk. I haven't wanted to if it would just bring up fond memories of OW. So we did that today. I got out my calendar where I wrote down all the dinners I recorded while snooping throught his master card bills. We covered April and May 2003. Now if you want to talk fun, this cleaning out the wound is a real blast. Of course H can't answer any "why" question, or "how" either. Or "what" questions. Like, "So what were you thinking that day you met her for dinner and then came home and lied to me?" In spite of myself I also asked him for the thousandth time how he could have invited her to our home after my dad's wake. No adequate answer for that. Why do I keep trying to make sense of that one?

Well SD, this is way too long. I could probably write for another hour. See, that's why I need to post more, so all this crap doesn't build up. I think I gave you more info than you probably wanted to know about. I am happy for you. I'm glad your W is starting to kick in. I want to get to that nirvana state you were talking about. I'm sure that has helped you stay focused, as apposed to me wanting to dump H at least once a day. He even asked me during my interrogation today if I was going to dump him. I told him I didn't know, but if I have had to put up with his pining for OW, he can put up with my uncertainty. Was that an LB? Well of course I always look forward to any of your feedback on my continuing saga. Your one and only Black Mamba MB buddy! CV

WOE, tell us how you are! I called out to you a few days ago. Did you see my post? Don't worry about ruining any mood. I want to know how you are!

OK SD, where are you? You lured me out of my own personal shadows under that rock and then you disappeared. Hey, it took me a LONG time to write my novel on here yesterday. I am expecting one of your very inspirational, MB guru-like responses. Got that? CV

CV, I didn't see you looking for me. But thanks for asking. I've been in deep doo doo lately. Don't know what's happening but my intense love for WW has really begun to dissipate into almost apathy. On Saturday evening she was out with a single woman from her team. So I went over to pick up my daughter from her girlfriends. It was my intention to have a beer with this single mom who I am very friendly with. Very innappropriate I know. But since she watched my kid for the last 24 hours I thought I'd spend some time with her. We were coaches together with soccer and I have known her for a few years. She is 11 yrs younger and very pretty and a concern to my WW. So I took her and the two little girls over to my brothers house who was having a picnic. My family all knows her and wouldn't think too much of me having this date. But when WW found out the next day she was pissed. She kept referring to her as my girlfriend etc. I knew she wouldn't like it but I forgot she can still get jealous. But you know what? W was out with single woman at the bar where cutie petootee hangs out. He didn't show up but none the less I think she was certainly hoping he would. Not like there's not lots of other bars around. But the double standard is something. She can do it but I can't. Anyway that is just a glimpse into how things are going. The tension continues to grow and intimacy is very infrequent. Not just SF but all the affection etc. Anyway I'll stop here and I will go back and reread your concert experience and reply tomorrow. Thanks for thinking of me.

WOE

WOE, I'm glad you came out of the shadows. I have been concerned about you. Maybe just one of those gut feelings. I hope my negativity of a few weeks ago didn't ruin your positive attitude about you and your W. Especially my getting a little POed at your W.

OK, now that I have gotten my guilt out of the way, I'll say this. Maybe your love bank is just getting a bit depleted by your W's double standard. You have been putting up with a lot of SH&& for a long time. I know you had the gambling problem and maybe that is why you have put up with things for so long. It's understandable if your W stuck with you during that time. Yet maybe your debt has been paid.

The one thing I'm pretty sure about is that if you and your W want intimacy again in your M it's not going to happen with her still toying around with OM, even if that means purposefully hoping she'll see him in a bar. And intimacy won't happen with you burying your feelings. At some point something's got to give. Sorry if I'm presuming things that aren't correct. I'm just going by things you've said before.

I know it would be so tempting to have an A yourself because I'm sure you're feeling neglected. I thought the other day that I don't even feel married now. I even told H that yesterday. When he broke our vows it somehow broke them for me too. A part of me wonders what would happen if I was in contact with someone like you were. However, I know it wouldn't help me, and it sure wouldn't help my boys.

What does Steve Harley say about all this? What is your gut telling you? Can you be straight with your W and tell her how her behavior is causing you to become indifferent towards her? Is it possible for you both to have some straight talk?

If I got anything really wrong here please clarify it, OK? Just keep coming here for support if you need it. Take Care! CV

CV, everything you've said is right on. My gambling problem doesn't justify her A just like her A doesn't justify me having an A. I have paid my debt for sure. You are also right about intimacy returning. It won't until the shadow of this guy is out of our lives completely. Can I have straight talk with my W? No. And that is the problem. Obviously I can open up but she simply doesn't want to hear it. I told her on Sunday I won't ever be around OM because Steve Harley told me it would be like trying to heal with the knife still in your back. She responded "whatever". But as Spider Slayer said my W is in for one hell of a crash. I really believe that. There are upcoming Christinings, Picnics and such that it is going to be impossible for her to smooth over my absence. I am well liked and respected by her team. For my love of her and for my friendship to them. They may not miss me but it will be uncomfortable when I don't show because everyone just intuitively knows what happened and I think it will make OM and W want to crawl under a rock. I know she has feelings in there somewhere. Last night her cell rang and she jumped to get it. I answered first and it was our son. But today I checked her cell and saw she called OM about an hour before her phone rang. The call was only 30 seconds so I assume it was a message and she was waiting for his return call. I don't even bother to mention as it would be LB. You're right about my diminishing LB as well. Nothing you have said has ever offended me. It is simply the truth and I also feel the frustration every day. I was thinking yesterday how I held W when she confessed and we were waiting to see if she was pregnant. How surreal.
My kindness and love has been exploited to the umpth degree. But it is going to blow.

CV, I often wonder how much guilt W must feel. I have seen some posts recently from Old Timers saying don't worry they are living in their own hell. I really wonder if that's true. Doesn't seem to apply to my case. She'll just blame me when it becomes impossible to remain part of the group. On Sunday she was even saying she hopes they invite her back to the shore for a weekend in September. She went last year without me and it raised eyebrows in her family to say the least. And here we are a year later and right in front of her sister she says she hopes she can go again. Who would I be to put the brakes on her fun? By the way, I have recently started saying that the EA was over. That clearly isn't true. She can't go a week without seeing or calling this guy. While difficult I need to somehow stay focused on the goal.

I know what you mean about feeling like your marriage is nulified as well. It's really ridiculous how my W can question my relationship with this OW when it clearly is not in the same league as hers. Again in front of her sister she said "why don't you just marry her", she also told sister again "we're headed for divorce". But the next day she'll start talking to me about plans for upgrading our home or making arrangements for sons college selection. I can tell you she won't file. If she gets to that point she is so dependent on me that she'll ask me to file. To borrow a line from the movie As Good As It Gets; "go sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here".

Hope your doing well. I want you to see that I have very bad dips during this process but you well know that in a week or two I'll tell you I want nothing more than a great relationship with my W. So please take this in that context. That it is fine to have the bad periods but don't take your eye off the ball. The finish line never moves. The goal is still the goal. So pick yourself back up and get back in the ring just like me. Sorry for all the sports analogies but you get the idea. And more from SD "this is not a horserace". I'll check back later.

WOE

WOE, I want to give you some advice here. However I am remebering the cardinal rule of my counseling profession. Don't ever give your clients advice because if they follow it, and it works, it will be because you told them to do it. If they follow the advice and things turn out badly, it will because you gave them the bad advice. However, you're not one of my clients, you are one of my MB friends. So just take everything I say with a grain of salt, OK?

Your W is in major fogland. What is it going to take to wake her up? I am glad you are acknowledging that she is at least still in an EA with this A##hole. The question is when will you have had enough? I just wonder sometimes what would happen if you let the your W's A be exposed? Really let it be in the bright, glaring light of day? What would happen if you told her enough is enough? If she can't be without this bum then go for it, and Plan B her? Please understand that I am not saying at all that this is what you should do. Get that straight. I am just wondering if that would wake her up from her cake walk.

I never had to do Plan B, so what do I know? From what I've read it is to protect the BS so his/her feelings for the WS aren't totally depleted. I am still curious what Steve thinks. Also what other MBers think who are more experienced and far more patient than I am.

Concerning me, I am doing OK. H seems to be waking up more and more. I just read someone's post here yesterday that really bummed me out. After 5 yrs. of a really good recovery her H got back with the OW. Sometimes I just wonder if I want to be married to this man who "F"ed me over. I told my shrink that H never did anything like this before. It wasn't like him. She said, "Well, he did do it, and this is him." That is the reality. Fog or no fog, he made these choices to treat me like sh&&. Is he now capable of doing this again? He says no, he never would. But so did that woman's H who just posted. My shrink said the BS has to decide if he/she wants to recommit to the M also. I guess I am still confused about what I want. But I'm still plugging along.

Well I better go do something. I've spent way too much time on MB this morning. You know I just wish you the best, whatever that will be. CV

CV55 and WOE

Wow! So much happens in such a short time! I've been really busy back at work, and with stuff around the house, time has just slipped away. My 16 YO S is in a summer soccer league, and we've had a bunch of games. I really meant to get this response back to you much sooner than this, and for the delay, I apologize.

CV, from what you write, I think you seem to be right on course. There will always be triggers, down-days, and thoughts that creep into your mind. Those will have to be dealt with on a day-to-day basis. But you will have to admit, life becomes a bit more relaxed with the pain and utter dispair begins to diminish, and are not thoughts that consume every waking hour.

You know, I used to cringe when you described some of the things you said to FWH, the infamous LB's you uttered in anger. I wonder now, if those barbed remarks were always part of the dynamics of your marriage. I wonder, too, if they were spoken PRE-A, in more of a humorous tone, which softened the blow a bit.

While this is a bit of a guess, I think that your H is a little bit in "awe" of you, and your self assurance. Intimidated, if you will. I would also remark that perhaps his continued "withdrawal", or pining, as you describe it, might be motivated by a desire to have you "give him attention", as would a child misbehave, so as to get attention from his parents.

I would guess that his EN's would include the desire to receive admiration from you, to the point of being doted on. But he doesn't know how to express that to you? I dunno, just a guess.

I really do think you should be cautious with anger and Love Busters, still, because he could still react to them poorly, without articulating how much they "hurt" him.

I think if you'd creatively and consciously "fluff up his feathers" on a regular basis, he would really respond to it. With that said, I know it still puts you in the Giver mode, and allows him to be the Taker, but that can be negotiated at a later date. You see, we are all still pretty early in this recovery stage. It's a slow, steady process.

I'm thrilled you are spacing out the R talks. I really found that to be critical for me. It put FWW less on the defensive, and made her more "accepting" when I do have something I want to talk about. In the mean time, we are trying to spend time together doing both routine, and fun things, and learning how to better communicate without anger and bitterness.

If we have a flare-up, we stop, talk it out calmly, shake hands and agree to be "friends", again. So many times our "now" conflicts are all pre-affair, by their nature, and have more to do with what was wrong in our marriage, than having anything at all to do with her affairs.

Sorry, this is getting long. To wrap it up, I think you are healing, personally, and as a couple. I hope you have a family vacation planned soon, as it was a Godsend for us. We had such a blast, and it was way more healing than I could have imagined, or dreamed for. No R talks, nuttin' but fun! Keep up the good work. You deserve success!

WOE........ I really hurt for you, man! You are such a kind and thoughtful soul, I wish I could grab your WW and give her a meaningful "shake".

The dynamics of your sitch have changed, it seems to a full blown EA, that perhaps wasn't apparent or obvious before. How long has it been since the ONS?

You have never done a full-blown exposure within the group, have you?

You have handled this with such kid-gloves, that any action you might take in the future will seem to your WW as really harsh, I would guess.

She is certainly in the fog. Have the dynamics of your relationship changed much in the past 6 weeks? Are you still "close" and enjoying each other's company, or is the continued contact disabling the ability for you to Plan A with her?

How are you doing personally? Do you have other activities and interests? You remind me a bit of believer, who gives so much to these boards, but finds no movement in her on sitch. Life simply is not fair!

I wish you both the very best,

SD

^^ ka-bump ^^

SD, since I am so into openness and honesty, I want you to spill it baby! I can take the heat. I think! What do you REALLY mean when you say you think H is "in awe" of me and possibly "intimidated". I do think the needy little "B" fed the heck out of his ego. He admitted that the crying and begging made him feel sooooo loved. Trust me, H would have hated that behavior over time. I will also acknowledge that OW and I are probably opposites. H claims she is smart. Maybe smart in his office. maybe very smart in luring a man into an A. But really, really dumb when it comes to looking at the big picture. So do men just love needy, pathetic women?

OK, now that I got THAT little vent off my chest, what are you saying? Truthfully I feel like H has gotten off pretty darn easy. Not all of his family knows, my family doesn't know, inspite of what it may seem he hasn't gotten many of the nuclear LBs from me often. I have been very affectionate towards him. God only knows how I am able to have SF with him, but that began fairly soon after A was revealed. Maybe it just came from being sexually deprived for a year. What LBs in particular made you cringe? Truthfully I still don't think my "buff body" comment was that bad.

Anyway, I've got to go shrink my clients. GIVE IT TO ME! I am all into self-knowledge. What do I have to lose? Just be kind to me. And I don't think I was like this pre-A. H even told me I didn't LB him before. So I'm not sure about that theory of yours. I do wonder if I intimidate H in some way. Not sure why. I'm actually very nice. Sometimes I've wondered if he likes someone as smart as me. He's smart also, but I'm a different kind of smart. OK, now I'm babbling again. Write back when you can! Glad you and W are having fun. H and I are going away alone again at the end of July. Hopefully this time I won't get triggered. CV

CV, glad you're H is coming around. To first answer your question about my W I would say that she would go into a major depression and have a hard time rebounding from total exposure. I really don't know but I can tell you I am applying the brick by brick theory that SH laid out. Soon enough attending these significant events is going to wear her down. Look in 2004 cutie hasn't been at my home. So that is progress. Plan B isn't an option or necessary yet. But if LB gets too low I will be sure to call SH and invite W to participate before doing anything like throwing in the towel. But I have a piece of advice for you as well. You are very sure of yourself and that IS intimating to your H. I once remarked to my brother that it never occurs to me that I could be wrong. He said that is your problem. Your W needs to see the achilles heel. I think there is something to this . Let husband know you are scared and very concerned about the future etc. I think it would allow him "in" a little more. In my case I think my W knows I hold the crystal ball to her future and it scares her. But of course I don't know anymore than she does, I just have some ridiculous confidence that has gotten me nowhere.

SD. OK, ONS was 2-05-02. Yeah 2 1/2 yrs ago. But it was followed by intense EA (one sided in my estimation) and now a lingering EA. More a co-dependent type thing. I met with IC today and he told me the bigger problem in my marriage is alcohol. He told me I need to "lovingly detach" and stop enabling. I am going to try this and see how it goes. Yes, I have lots of other rewarding aspects in life. I am head coach of my girls CYO team this fall. I am partners with my brother in our own business for the last 8 years. I am very active in helping my 17 year old find a college. Talk later

WOE

Guys something good has happened I think. While I was typing the previous post W walked in and saw me slam down my laptop. She asked if I was on the computer so I said yes I had to respond to some post on Marriage Builders. Normally this sort of aggravates her that I remain here. But tonight she started to read the thread I typed above and she said what is WW. When I told her she said "yeah, I'm wandering all over the place". It was in good fun because I understand she doesn't get what EA is. She simply thinks she is being crucified for a ONS 2 plus years ago.

But a little while later we were outside and she mentioned the alcoholism. She said I think I drink to escape. She also mentioned a major situation that happened last week. While we were away looking for colleges she got drunk at a restaurant and started talking too loud. My 17 yr. old son told her to shhhhhsh. She got very hurt and started to cry at the table. This upset son and when I gave him a hug after we left the restaurant he told me "at least I can get away from her at home" (we were staying at hotel). Well I told this to wife that night and it was very tense. But tonight said she is going to ask our son if he is applying for another part time job to "get away from her". I told her don't say that to him it will hurt him. I'm sure she'll back off, but this comment really hit home. Out of the mouths of babes. He struck a nerve and I think she is really starting to look in the mirror. I'm a bit excited and I am going to invite her back to read some of my posts. Certainly the more positive ones. In fact I'm going to dare her to read them. CV, I told you it wouldn't be long before I got all excited and in love again. The dips are very short on my coaster. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WOE

WOE, if your W gets herself together she is going to be sooooo happy one day you didn't dump her. She is very lucky to have a husband who loves her as much as you do. Just do me a favor. Don't let her read any of my posts. She'll probably never allow you to talk to me again.

Thanks for your opinion about my "intimidating self." Seriously I don't quite get how I come off as being "so sure of myself" on my posts. If you can give me a little more details I'd appreciate it. How many totally bummed out posts have you read of mine? Is that being so sure of myself? I do admit that I am willing to one day look at our M and my part in any problems pre-A. I won't take any responsibility for the A. Frankly I don't take any responsibility for the year before the A either. It was a very bad year because of life circumstances. It's not my fault H had to have an A to escape from it all. My therapist told me that our M did not constitute H having an A. In other words, it wasn't like we had a bad M.

What you said about sharing more of my fears with H is half true. I have let him see that side of me. However, I also told him the other day I have a lock on my heart. He said he'd never have an A again. That all the things that occured last year made this A possible. It was a fluke. I said how does he know we won't have another year from hell? What happens if I get sick and I can't meet his needs? Will he still support me, or will he have to escape again? Those are my fears.

Well, I'm glad you are happy tonight. Your W's behavior also makes more sense because this is the 1st time you said she has an alcohol problem. I wondered why she hangs out at bars so much. I'm glad your son can talk to you about his feelings. Does he know what's going on in your M?

Well got to go now. Take Care! CV

CV, my son doesn't know what's going on other than that drinking is a problem. I imagine he has some questions but couldn't identify it. But in your situation I am mostly going by what you and SD say about confidence plus I do read what you say and I get the idea there is very little gray area for you. You know you are right which is comforting to you but probably intimidating to your husband. I don't mean that in a bad way. Consider in my case I know I right and my W knows I'm right. But she can't admit that to me. So I have to find a way to get her to feel that I accept a lot of responsibility for driving her into an affair. Like it was not a choice she made. Then if we can have some discussions and I don't drive her back into her shell she will eventually be able to admit to me that she made some terrible choices. She will literally say these things to other people. ie. I made mistakes, or one mistake can change your whole life etc. So I know she gets it but she can't let me have ANYMORE satisfaction. And maybe that's where you can sort of apply to your husband. He doesn't need to be pounded. Consider you are the person he loves more than anyone in the world (don't doubt this point) and he has hurt you more than anyone in this world could possibly hurt you. He has to get that and it is a hell of a cross to bear.

Finally, you said you wonder if H would be there during the next crisis. Can you actually be sure that you will be there? I mean I can't predict how I'd react. I'm running on fumes at this point so I really wonder what awaits me. But in the meantime we all need to fight the good fight just for ourselves. I'll again make reference to Jen Brown. I really believe she can look in the mirror and know she did everything possible to save her marriage. She didn't have kids but we do. That knowlege is going to come in handy when these kids become adults, should our marriages fail. Don't leave anything left in your tank. Make this your single purpose in life. I believe your effort will be returned tenfold.

WOE

CV55

You know, I really sort of "spilled" it last time. From what I've read in your posts, you and FWH seem to be reconnecting at a pace, maybe slower than YOU would like, but perhaps, better expressed as at a "proper" pace, based on how much emotional damage was done by the A.

Anyway, how can you NOT have fun at a Clapton show. It seems you and I have similar tastes in music. I "grew" up with the Beatles, and love all the hard rock and roll, sometimes leaning towards the eclectic, and sometimes the late 60's/early 70's psychedelic(sp?) genre of music. And I love blues guitar, and also harmonica? Go figure?

So I guess I'm going to have to dissappoint you, if you were expecting me to chastise your progress. Other than the AO's (which seem to do you more good than harm?) and an occasional Love(zinger)Buster, it would seem you are in a pretty good place right now. As I said in the last post, you might want to use those "moments" with great discretion, cuz if FWH turns too many corners, he may end up going in circles! (does that make sense?)

It seems to get easier, as the emotions subside, to focus on the good and better side, rather than to dwell on the ugliness of what started this in the first place.

By the way, there's a "newbie" here in GQII, named "haywire". She's right in the middle of discovery, and you are sooo good with words. I'm just a dumb guy, and maybe you could boost her spirits and encourage her a bit, if you have time?

Keep me posted on your progress. It's great to see you doing so well. I want to know more about your 'outing' later this month. A romantic get-a-way, family vacation, what?

Stay strong!

SD

Well Boys, I ain't doing too good today. Whenever I think the pain has subsided, it comes back. Granted it isn't at the same intensity level, but it's back. I don't have time to relate my latest wonderful trigger into hell. Maybe later I'll grace you all with an update.

SD, I can't write to newbies now. I can write to people who need to know they aren't going crazy. I can write to people and tell them I know exactly how they feel. But at least for now I can't write and tell them if they do A, B, and C their S will fall back in love with them. That they can recover from this. Cause I think I've lost my faith. The posts I've been reading here lately, where 2 to 5 yrs. into recovery the Ss go back to the OP freak me out. OMG, I can't go through this again. Frankly what's to say my H issn't in contact right now? He got so good at lying, why would it be different now?

I'm not too intimidating right now am I? I don't want to be in this life that H put us into. I don't know how to make peace with it. He's not giving me enough to keep me going, and I guess I'm just not the giver you two are. CV