So today, not 24 hours after OM sent her packing (she had been living with him, but he apparently did not officially "break up" with her), the sparrow called my cell phone. I was seeing my IC at the time and my phone was in the car. She didn't leave a message.

I don't want to call her back. If she's just going to give me some lame hassle about money, I'll be disappointed. Plus I'm very angry today. Found out she did it with OM in our bed, and that she had unprotected sex with him several times.

Should I call her back, or wait for her to try again? I really don't feel like calling.

GC

I would let her call you back.

I hope there is no chance of pregnancy?

Better to not seem anxious. She will call again if she needs to.

Sorry to hear about the bed. What do you plan to do?

L.

If you don't feel like calling then don't.

Frankly, GC you are going to realize that you can walk away from this. You are getting there now. It won't be anger, it won't even be the pain, you just won't feel there is anything special left.

You have not lost your marriage yet. You may have a chance to rebuild, you will get your chance to make choices. Hang in there, but realize that sometimes these things end in divorce and sometimes you recover them. The idea here at MB is to learn from either experience so that your future is much brighter.

So don't call, nothing has really changed yet, so don't expect anything different from her yet. have a good day.

God Bless,

JL

This is an easy one. If you don't feel like calling her, then don't! Plus it would not be a good idea to speak to her when you are angry. Let her pursue you for a change. If she wants to see you it might be a good idea for you to tell her you already have plans. My personal advice (of course what do I know)would be to take everything very slowly right now.

Supposedly she just finished her period, and that the times they've done it since then they've used condoms.

I think she had her period last around June 15 (tampon wrappers in the trash when she stayed here). The timing is a little funny for her to have finished a week ago or so, but her cycles may be tweaked what with the weight loss and emotional shakeup. She's not on the pill.

As for the bed, I thought I'd replace the bedding and the mattress pad, see if that's good enough. Or maybe I'll just give it to her and get a new one. Money's tight, but I'd like an unsullied mattress, even if it's all in my head.

GC

gc:

"Should I call her back, or wait for her to try again? I really don't feel like calling."

No, don't call her back. Wait for her 2 try again, and don't answer when she does. And don't call her back then, either...

...dismantle the bed, load it in2 your truck (real men drive trucks, don't they? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), and reassemble it, bedding, pillows, and all, on her front lawn in the middle of the night - preferably when it's about 2 rain (or set it on fire if not - but check city ordinances about that sort of thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )...

...I'll shut up before I get one of us in trouble! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OM sent her packing </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does this mean she is not living with OM anymore?

I would NOT call her Gray. She will only disappoint you, guaranteed. She is still foggified, even if they are separating. Plus, if you are upset today, you may LB and then she will not want to come back to you either.

If you can believe anything OM tells his W, then yes, he sent her on her way last night and she is no longer living with him. She has rented a room for the summer, but I think it was mainly a prop. Sounds like all her stuff was at OM's house.

ol' 2long, I want to do that. I might consider it if I knew where she was. I don't even know where the place she rented is; she never told me. Actually I think I will take apart the bed and put it in the garage. I loved that bed, but the more I think of it, I'm going to need a new one.

Another thing. I made a pile of the things she left behind in front of the fireplace, and I was planning on boxing up the clothes she left here. I have band practice tonight, and she knows it. Since she called, I think it's possible she might come by. Would it be a good thing or a bad thing for her to see all her stuff in a pile in front of the fireplace? I think a good thing. It's time for her to see some consequences, is how I feel.

GC

Definatly a good thing. Let her FEEL that she's LOSING YOU! Let her feel her world falling apart! Heck - start taking the bed apart and let her see that drug out of the room. Ick - are you sleeping on the couch??

She will call back.

It is just as well you weren't there to answer at the time.

I think you need to deal with your knowledge and feelings about her activities before you talk to her.

Graycloud, you want her back. Then you have to forgive her now, because this will get in the way of starting over, healing.

I know it feels like letting her get away with it, but its not. I know it hurts. But its just a bed. If you get rid of it, do it for her sake for when she comes back, so there are no memories for her. Rearrange the whole bedroom. Paint it. Do whatever you need to.

Revenge is childish and it will just drive her away. It is not Gods way.

She is probably starting to freak out now, wondering what she has done, knowing what a fool she has been. She is probably scared to come or call.

This is your chance to listen to her. Don't talk, just listen.

There is a verse in Colossians 3 that talks about showing 'kindness, gentleness, compassion, forgiveness, as we have also been forgiven'.

This is love Graycloud. Knowing what she has done and loving her anyway.

Sorry Shul - I disagree completely. It is not TIME to forgive sparrow. People who forgive too quickly often end up in the same situation again! Forgiveness is key - yes - eventually. But to simply say - I'm going to forgive you so that we can move on - is naive. Gray has a RIGHT to be angry. NO WHERE has anyone mentioned revenge!

As far as the bed goes - I'd get rid of it too. It has NOTHING to do with revenge or trying to hurt her. Sparrow is an ADULT who made concious choices to do the wrong thing. With that come consequences. Are you suggesting to turn a blind eye and DENY the truth of the situation??

Lewis B. Smedes - The Art of Forgiving: When You Need To Forgive And Don't Know How


"Forgiving does not usually happen at once. It is a process, sometimes a long one, especially when it comes to wounds gouged deep. And we must expect some lapses...some people seem to manage to finish off forgiving in one swoop of the heart. But when they do, you can bet they are forgiving flesh wounds. Deeper cuts take more time and can use a second coat."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Gray has a RIGHT to be angry </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he does.

He is perfectly in the right. In fact he would be within his rights to tell her to go jump in the lake, that she blew it, thats it , thats all...


And I could do the same with mine. But I choose instead to forgive him, and understand him and show mercy as I have been forgiven and understood and shown mercy.

And I will keep on forgiving even if he does the same thing over and over 70x7 times.

Same as God has forgiven me.

Gray - your sig line says you're in Plan A.

Is this true?

If so, I believe when she calls back or if she comes to your band practice, you should continue to implement Plan A unless you have decided you don't want to recover.

This simply means you should smile when you first make eye contact and even give her a hug. When the moment comes, feel her out for what she wants to do. I don't think you should bring up OM kicking her out. See if she brings it up.

None of this means you are forgiving her immediately. Not even any time soon - until she seeks it and deserves it, IMHO.

Bottom line - you have every right to be angry about any number of things. Just reaffirm if you want to save your marriage and if so, get back in the plan.

WAT

For a bit of perspective (not that I'm a model MBer), I haven't forgiven my W yet. I've forgiven myself, which is the first step 2ward my own recovery, but she's got one more big step 2 take for me 2 forgive her: NC for life.

I can imagine forgiving her. I can even talk about it with her. But I would be doing her a disservice if I forgave her for something that she hasn't quite stopped doing yet.

best,
-ol' 2long

I told the sparrow that I'm GOING TO forgive her. I didn't tell her I have. In fact, I told her straight up, that doesn't mean I have forgiven you. That will take time and it will take something from you. It only means that I mean to forgive you.

As for the bed and her stuff, I'm with H4F. I'm not being vengeful or malicious. I'm emptying her closet and taking down the bed. If she shows up here and sees that, it will contribute to the avalanche of consequences she needs to get buried under before she can move forward.

She KNOWS that I want her back. I have made no secret of that. I've told her I see a future for us, and that I can't in good conscience cooperate with her in divorcing. She has no reason to think my feelings have changed. I haven't reached out to her much lately, but everything that's come from me has been kind and understanding. The other day we emailed back and forth about money a few times. I ended the first message with "I miss you", the second with "have a great weekend", and the third with "try to enjoy a little of this beautiful day".

So I'm plan-Aing as best I can, despite the fact that she is plan-Bing me, more or less. Or at least was before today. I do wonder what she wanted. But whatever it was, I'm going to show her I will be okay without her and give her a taste of reality. I love her and I want her, but I do not need her.

GC

Gray

Did she call you back? The suspense is killing me!

FWIW, here is my 2cents, i agree and/or second what Shul and WAT say. You are in plan A so just keep that mindset. I wouldn't call her back i would wait for her to call you but really kind of act like you aren't aware of the recent events.

as far as the bed, if you really know for a fact that they used it, i would dismantle it and put it in the garage. your comment to your W could always be it's just too painful for you to sleep on or have in the bedroom. the last 2 times i've gone to our house, my H has not stayed at the house while i was there. i have not slept in our bed or even on the couch, i slept on the floor in one of the other spare rooms. part of it is self-persecution, it just makes me sad to think of all the times we didn't sleep in the bed together or weren't there together. we always made excuses, like we didn't want to wake the other one up, or my back was hurting or i just fell asleep on the couch. of course i feel my reasons were genuine at the time but now i'm realizing that for such a long time my H was unhappy and probably just didn't want to be in the same bed as me. the couch was actually more comfortable then the bed though. i don't think that they have slept in our bed but i think more that the OW has at least been to our house. on dday i asked my h if she had been to our house and he said he wouldn't allow that. i said i was glad he drew the line somewhere but that was before i found MB and some amount of time has passed since then so things could have changed.

so that's my opinion, i think you're handling things well and you know that you have to take things slow and have been a model of plan A, keep up the good work. if she asks why you didn't call her back you could always say that you were in IC at the time she called, that you thought maybe she had called you by mistake or changed her mind, or something along the lines that you thought she would leave a message if you needed to call her back. prayers to you, RR

OM admitted to car4love that the first time he went to bed with the sparrow it was in my house, in my bed. I doubt this was a lie. He moaned and groaned about how cheap and dirty it made him feel. Awwwwwww. Poor fella.

The sparrow never called back last night. I took the bed apart and put it in the garage. I started removing her things from her large closet.

Last night OM agreed with car4love to establish NC by telephone with her listening on the other line, and they plan to do it either tonight or tomorrow. OM, feeling he needs a couple of days alone, is spending the weekend with his mother. The sparrow's family has a cabin nearby. When she gets the NC call she may run for the cabin, and it will be a challenge for OM to stay away from her, as she is likely to pursue him if she knows where he is. So some danger there. My ILs should be there, and may be able to discourage her from pursuing OM if she goes up.

Will wait and see if the NC call actually happens. I'm sure car4love will let me know right away when they do it.

Should I warn the sparrow's family when she gets dumped so they can be there for support? She doesn't have to know I told them, but if she's going to be hurting, getting harangued by her family about how evil her affair is won't help her. I'm worried about her and if she doesn't reach out to me I want to make sure she doesn't feel any more alone than she has to.

I suppose it's possible she might come running to me. Yesterday I'm told she sent a desperate email to OM and he sent some kind of response. He has promised his W that if she contacts him before the NC call he will not respond again. We'll see...

GC