Found out at the beginning of this month my wife has been cheating on me. First time during our marriage was two years ago. Now she is in a relationship with someone that she met only 2-1/2 mo ago and wants to leave. She is out of town visiting her parents for the next week and said in our last counseling session (our 2nd) that she plans to move out when she returns. She is a musician and is auditioning for jobs several states away. However, she is in school (last year of Masters Program) and is just starting the new year (locally). She says this affair has nothing to do with her leaving and that we are just incompatible. The counselor of course disagrees with this. She is not willing to stop the relationship at this point. I should mention her affair is a long distance relationship and she cannot see him but she calls him all the time. I am 29 and she is 27. Someone please help me to cope with this! I have been nothing but nice to her in the recent weeks and this has left her totally confused. She doesn't understand why I have not become angry yet.

This is tearing me apart. I cannot begin to explain all the emotions that I am feeling right now. I need to know what to expect next here. Read all of Dr. Harley's Basic concepts 2 weeks ago and have even given a copy to my Spouse. If someone could please direct me to the correct posting area for my post I would appreciate it greatly.

<small>[ November 27, 2004, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Welcome to the forum....I think you picked the right place to post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I like this board because of the amount of good veterans who post here. The "just found out" board can be very slow...so if you want quick responses post here. Good Luck

There are tons of men going through the same thing you are right now.

Have you read about Plan A? You can check it out on the link in my signature line.

Thanks starfish and believer. I just read the Plan A/B section. It looks like my S is forcing a Plan B situation. Fortunately, I have not been showing her any Love Busters since she told me about her lover. Right now we are in Counceling and as far as I know she will continue counceling. What I am wondering now is about the part in Plan B where Dr. Harley says "Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery." Does this mean no counceling!?!? I wouldn't think so but I feel I should ask. Thanks again for your support. I will read and re-read Plan A/B.

Dear SHM,

Welcome to MB. Though I am sad for your pain and sorrow, I commend you on your reading of the concepts section and basically doing a pretty good plan A. It is hard to keep up, so I recommend that in addition you try out some or all of the following. Remember this is about what you can do not what your wife can or does.

1. Contact Jennifer C @ MB and setup phone counseiling for you 1st. You can do this in the comfort of your home and if you want within earshot of your W.

2. Read the books: Surviving an Affair , His Needs/Her Needs. both are by Dr W. Harley. If things get real bad with your W, read the book: Love must be Tough by Dr. James Dobson. This will give you a rounded knowledge of what is ahead and prepare you for it.

3. Keep a journal for your refernce. You may be surprised how this may turn out in a few months.

4. Keep posting and venting here as needed.

5. Secure your finances and don't be willing to give it all to the Ws. Save the good stuff for your W. The WS is not your W right now so don't give the WS the farm.

6. Check out the consequences of separation vs divorce in your area.

7. Create a personal support group and tell them to respect your decisions, then tell them only the portion you think they need to know.

If you use the above suggestions, it will make the outcome easier to handle.

take care,
L.

Thanks for your reply Orchid.

I will work on all of your suggestions but since I am already in counceling with a local Ph.D. I cannot afford to start more counceling. My insurance does not cover any of these expenses "of course" and my parents are footing the entire bill. Do you know the answer to my last question about Plan B and counceling with my WS?
BTW When I mentioned that I was visiting this website to my Dr. she said that this was a good one. My first counceling appointment w/out my WS is tomorrow and I am thinking that I will take The plan A/B material to the meeting along with some questions that I have drafted.

One more question. Orchid, I don't totally understand your #6 suggestion.
Thank you all so much for your help.

Good morning,

Free contact means anytime, anywhere. In plan B that becomes restricted. You can set contact for certainl important items, For me it centered on $$, mail and child visitation.

Counseling c/b individual or as a couple. I don't see a problem being in plan B and doing couple counseling. It s/b under the control of the MC anyway so any issues will have a 3rd party.

Remember plan B is to protect you from the additional pain of dealing with a WS while the A is flaunts or is alive in any shape or form.

So identify your boundaries. Ask your MC how familar they are with MB principles. Take the books Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs along with the emotional needs questionnaire. Maybe you can incorporate them in your session.

The MC may try to bring some of these tools up to the WS at a later time.

Patience, a clear mind and a calm heart is vital to your personal recovery.

take care,
L.

I have ordered both books and will make sure to mention them to my MC at my Thurs. visit . Thank you for the advice.

Should I make sure that I contact my WS at least once a day? More? Conversations are awkward and usually short unless I drive them longer. Right now she is out of state with her parents until Wednesday. I spoke with her last night and it broke my heart. Just don't want her to think I am not thinking about her. She still maintains that she is going to move out when she gets back. I told her I wasn't trying to stop her. She told me that she was practicing for an audition that is in the same state that the A lives in. That is what made me feel so bad. I have had a good two days without contact and this set me back quite a bit.

I don't think that I participated in any love busters except maybe that I sounded very sad when I was talking to her on the phone. I told her that my voice was sad because my heart was hurt but that I really did want to do all the things that she is so skeptical about me wanting to do (move to persue her career and mine somewhere else). Did not talk about A at all. Do you guys see any Love Busters in there? What is the score here?

I talk to her parents everyday. They are showing me a lot of love right now and I hope that I am not making a mistake doing this. I've read about how blood is thicker than water and it had made me cautious. Right now they are doing everything they can to talk sense to her and I know that her father plans to talk to her about not moving out soon. However, I plan to just go on assuming that she is going to move out. BTW I have not been conspiring with them or anything like that but just using them for moral support and keeping them updated on the positive changes that I am making in myself.

Today I am going to call an P.A.P.N that my MC suggested to talk about getting on some AD meds. When I mentioned this to my MC in our meeting yesterday she said she was planning to talk to me about that in our session.

My MC feels that I should stay in plan A for a quite a while longer. This only started Aug 1 going on 3 weeks now, so it is pretty early yet. What do you guys think about staying in plan A in my situation? I have heard about the problems that come with staying in plan A too long. BTW my MC commended me for all the work I'm doing and said from what she has observed (2 group sessions) she doesn't think I could be behaving any better (no angry outbursts, demands, or disrespect here).

One last thing, I have been thinking about writing an e-mail to the A but I don't know yet Exactly what I would say. I have tried calling many times but A will not answer. It is obvious to me that A will show WS anything I write and maybe even manipulate it first. So maybe this is a bad idea and something I should just leave alone. I just don't like the idea that he isn't feeling any pressure right now.

Thanks for all your help and support

Bump^

Shm,

Don't call too much and cut back on the ILYs. Sorry that's poison to the WS right now. At least that's what they like to think. ILY's are healthy for healthy people but WS'' are not healthy people (M wise that is).

As for communication with her parents, do it as often as you both can. If they want less communication (because it hurts them too much, then cut back).

Assume she w/b seeing the OM. How long have you been in plan A and how much longer do you think you can continue to do this w/o hurting yourself?

Plan B is not about helping the WS but helping the BS. You already are showing you are tired of the charade in plan A so why stay in it longer?

L.

Ahhhhh what is an ILY?!!!! I am not doing well right now. Been lookng through WS e-mail to see what is going on with auditions and it is killing me. I should probably stop right?
I think her parents are holding up fine right now. I have been in plan A for approx 2 weeks. And yes it's killing me because she has not been staying at home since 2 days after D-day (Aug 1st.) She also plans to move out as soon as she gets back. Ahhhhh what do I do??!! I am 5 chapters into SAA and I will probably read another while I wait and hope you are still at your computer and might answer this post.

I think I mentioned earlier that my MC recommended that I stay in Plan A for quite a while longer. I have been reading alot of posts and it seems like maybe the 2-3mo time limit might be for me. But right now it is killing me. I am startng to calm down as I type but I hope you post back soon. Thank you so much for your help!

One last thought I am starting to be confused as to what my demeanor should be when I speak with her. Should I hide saddness like nothing is wrong? and how often is too often to call?

<small>[ August 22, 2004, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

shm,
I've been reading your threads and thought I'd add my two cents for all their worth.

I am in your boat only this is my third time into the ear-high b.s. pond. My H exposed his A to me in 12/03 - it had been going on for 2 mos. He moved out for a month & came home just b4 xmas. I found out the A had rekindled in 2/04. Again, I was promised NC and it lasted 5 mos. Then the floozy called him, conveniently during a not so great time in our marriage and he's been seeing her ever since.

We have waivered between Plan A & B many times. I can only tell you from my experience, if you are in Plan A - only YOU can decide when enoughs enough. Unfortunately for both of us, our spouses have put us in the particularly uncomfortable position of being the grown-ups. If you do transition into Plan B, there are no guidelines about quantity of contact. Also, I don't think you should hide your saddness from her - BUT don't LB, don't rub her face in it. If it comes through in your conversations fine - but don't force it on her - she will only pull away.

After having been here for 9 months now, I can tell you that you are in for the most horrible ride of your life! She will say hurtful things to you and waiver back and forth and break your heart (at least what's left of it). This isn't easy, but what is usually too easy is not worth a drop in the bucket, right?

Just hang on, only you can decide what you need for you. Above all, you need to protect yourself. If your marriage should not work out (if mine doesn't either) we both need to protect ourselves so we don't end up with serious issues on the backside. It's not fair to you to bear the burden of this, but that's the way it has to be.

I know the heartache, heartbreak and just physical unrest you have - try to remember you are a good person and you will get through this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Kind words and understanding go a long ways with me these days. Thank you for your post H&C. I wish you peace of mind at least for this day. That's all we have right one day at a time.

I have been wondering to myself alot how long will be a reasonable amount of time for Plan A if she moves out as she plans to do in the middle of next week. Should this change things? As it is the only way I have to implement Plan A is through e-mail and the phone. I just wrote her the first e-mail and I think I like it better than phone conversations. It's much easier to articulate yourself when someone isn't driving a stake through your heart.
I have asked this before but what do you H&C think about group counceling during plan B? I was told before that it would be ok but the more I read posts and SAA the more it seems like there should be no communication at all. As a veteran of both plans what do you think?

[QUOTE<strong> shmaley:
Ahhhhh what is an ILY?!!! </strong>[/QUOTE]

Orchid: ILY = I Love You.

[QUOTE<strong> shmaley: I am not doing well right now. Been lookng through WS e-mail to see what is going on with auditions and it is killing me. I should probably stop right? </strong>[/QUOTE]

Orchid: We call it the roller coaster ride. Flu like symptoms but accompanied with anxiety attacks. Recommend you see your doctor for anti D's. Try breathing exercises. As a new BS, the addiction to know all the BS is up to is hard to break. You should stop looking at what hurts you and it is commendable that you can see that but to actually stop w/b hard. Do the best you can.

re: Your heart and mind are not in sync. Your heart does not want to believe that your W would inflict such pain in your M. Your mind sees what is really happening but feels helpless as to what to do. this creates an internal confilct in the BS. Counseling and time will help. Also in some cases Anti D's. Posting here helps also.

Finish reading the books.

[QUOTE<strong> shmaley: I think her parents are holding up fine right now. I have been in plan A for approx 2 weeks. And yes it's killing me because she has not been staying at home since 2 days after D-day (Aug 1st.) She also plans to move out as soon as she gets back. Ahhhhh what do I do??!! </strong>[/QUOTE]

Orchid: Both you and her parents should become each others support. Realize that she is their daughter and may not always agree or support you.

As for her moving out..... look at it this way, as long as she is a WS, do you want her around flaunting the A and getting you to enable it? In cases like this plan B and her moving out is better for you. Not as good for the WS as they want you to believe.

Remember sometimes the best help is no help.

[QUOTE<strong> shmaley I am 5 chapters into SAA and I will probably read another while I wait and hope you are still at your computer and might answer this post.</strong>[/QUOTE]

Orchid: Keep reading. I and others will keep checking in.

[QUOTE<strong> shmaley I think I mentioned earlier that my MC recommended that I stay in Plan A for quite a while longer. I have been reading alot of posts and it seems like maybe the 2-3mo time limit might be for me. But right now it is killing me. I am startng to calm down as I type but I hope you post back soon. Thank you so much for your help!</strong>[/QUOTE]

Orchid: It seems like a long time right now but it will get shorter and you will get stronger. I remember thinking 1 hour was a loooong time.

Glad to hear you are calming down a bit. Don't get too angry with yourself if you get all riled up again. Remember the roller coaster ride. You will learn how to navigate with the dips, twists and turns.

[QUOTE<strong> shmaley One last thought I am starting to be confused as to what my demeanor should be when I speak with her. Should I hide saddness like nothing is wrong? and how often is too often to call? </strong>[/QUOTE]

Orchid: When you speak with her, be yourself. Then show her your better self...... keep improving. She will see that she isn't getting better but you are,. No need to tell her, let her see it. Be sad when you need t/b. Not all the time.

As for the calling, that depends on whether you are in plan A or B. While there is no set amount of times to call, use your judgement. In plan A probably once or twice a week. Not at the same time. Keep her guessing. In paln B, none at all. She can be given the name of a reliable 3rd party.

If you can continue the e-mails but don't tell her too much. Just respond to her questions. She will wonder why you aren't preaching to her. LOL!!!! The BS should get points for confusing the WS. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

take care,
L.

Shm,
Well, I have gone round a few times on this ride - Gotta tell ya... I want off! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

We did Plan A - or should I say I did Plan A after the second D-Day. I really didn't have much time for anything after the first - he pretty much moved out right away and spent all his time with his hussy. We talked some, then he came home. I should have implemented Plan B the day he moved out - but I didn't (hindsight...). Now here we are again 5 months later and I'm trying like hell to Plan A, but my emotions and anger are really getting the better of me. I try not to be sarcastic and hurtful - I think I'm doing okay.

Like when he said "I've really made a mess of things", I said "Yeah you have, you should have thought about that before starting this all over again". I probably could have just left it with the "yeah, you have" and been done with it. After three times, I'm starting to feel like a real loser! Am I a glutton for punishment or just plain ignorant? Sometimes I think I'm both!

If you are in Plan A, you have to go about your life. Show her that she's not getting the better of you. If you have to mow the yard, do it. If you have to go to Home Depot or to the post office, do it. When she engages you, answer her - but don't over indulge the need and wanting to inundate her with questions and professions of your love, etc.

If she does move out, then you have to go into Plan B to protect yourself. Through all this please remember - YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON TO YOU - YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AS NO ONE ELSE WILL! You can talk throughout Plan B, but (and I mean but) only at designated times - such as counseling sessions or when bills need to be paid, children tended to, etc.

I just keep telling myself if I love him in the same strong but quiet way, it will show through and his illusion of 'happily ever after' with the floozy of the year will dissipate. My hopes are the same for you. Hang in there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Shm,
Well, I have gone round a few times on this ride - Gotta tell ya... I want off! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

We did Plan A - or should I say I did Plan A after the second D-Day. I really didn't have much time for anything after the first - he pretty much moved out right away and spent all his time with his hussy. We talked some, then he came home. I should have implemented Plan B the day he moved out - but I didn't (hindsight...). Now here we are again 5 months later and I'm trying like hell to Plan A, but my emotions and anger are really getting the better of me. I try not to be sarcastic and hurtful - I think I'm doing okay.

Like when he said "I've really made a mess of things", I said "Yeah you have, you should have thought about that before starting this all over again". I probably could have just left it with the "yeah, you have" and been done with it. After three times, I'm starting to feel like a real loser! Am I a glutton for punishment or just plain ignorant? Sometimes I think I'm both!

If you are in Plan A, you have to go about your life. Show her that she's not getting the better of you. If you have to mow the yard, do it. If you have to go to Home Depot or to the post office, do it. When she engages you, answer her - but don't over indulge the need and wanting to inundate her with questions and professions of your love, etc.

If she does move out, then you have to go into Plan B to protect yourself. Through all this please remember - YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON TO YOU - YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AS NO ONE ELSE WILL! You can talk throughout Plan B, but (and I mean but) only at designated times - such as counseling sessions or when bills need to be paid, children tended to, etc.

I just keep telling myself if I love him in the same strong but quiet way, it will show through and his illusion of 'happily ever after' with the floozy of the year will dissipate. My hopes are the same for you. Hang in there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I am so angry right now I could explode! Just talked to WS on the phone to see if she got back alright from her flight. I asked if she was going to call me tomorrow so that we could set up counceling around her school schedule. She said that she wouldn'tbe able to set up any counceling until after labor day weekend. Apparently she is going to audition in A's town and will be staying there for the week.
I hate her right now so much I feel like I never want to see her again. Held my cool on the phone but was asking questions about what was up and where she was staying (this is a LB for her). Shouldn't have asked questions I guess got myself hurt and gave her some LB to think about.
I want Plan B so bad I can taste it. But I am afraid that I have not done Plan A nearly enough (only 2 weeks) to have a lasting effect. One thing is for sure though I cannot take much more of this ****.
I am trying to keep contact with her to meet any EN she will allow me to. Right now if I didn't call her I think she would not have any communication with me at all. For the last week I have dreaded calling her everytime I have done it. I probably need to councel with SH or JC because I really feel that I am losing love for her at an alarming rate right now. Never said I hated my wife before. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I know WS isn't W but she looks a lot like her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Went to my Family Dr. yesterday and got on Lexapro. It is giving me a splitting headache, slight nausea, anxiety, dizzyness, and sleepiness. The headache is the worst part. Are these side effects just something that I should wait out? Two days is not very long but man my head really hurts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Shmaley

P.S. Should I have asked her if she was going to see the A on her trip in our phone conversation?

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Bump^

SHM

I am new to this mess to - only six weeks in - but theres a couple of things I would tell you.

Firstly that knowledge will set you free. LEARN everything you can about teh dynamics and mechanics of affairs. It helped me to know that what FELT like a unique torture to me was in fact a painful template repeated in almost every affair. It doesn't remove your pain but it DOES mean that there is a lot of precedent and insight available to support you.

Second, execute againt the template. Work out Plan a/Plan B /exposures and DO it. It is ABSOLUTELY against your intuition and instinct, but you are smart and controlled and you can do it. Remember all Affairs are the same.

Thirdly you need to put youself at the top of your priority tree. In a MONTH I Guarantee you will be doing better that you can EVER imagine doing right now. When that happens you need to be healthy in heart, mind and spirit. This affair has not made you a worse person !

Finally, read folks' stories on here. Some UNBELIEVABLE successes from the worst and least promising situations imaginable.

I am too new and unwise to offer more advice, friend. Look after yourself and learn all you can.

You will be OK thorugh this if you let yourself be.

BP