Hi Shmaley,

Sorry you are not feeling well. Hope it's a short term virus.

As for the right time to speak to a WS about R or M, there isn't a right time. You do what you need for your healing. NO teaching a WS, they are tooo fogged in to learn.

So take care of yourself.....chicken soup, hot toddie, etc..... get rested and get well.

Let her wonder about you, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

Had to go to work sick. There is no AC here today. I feel like crap and I can't quit dwelling. Not having a good day. Feeling like I have no direction again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

C.

I need a pep talk.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She also asked if I wanted her to knock on the door when she comes over I told her "no". What do you think Orchid? I figured since I was in plan A I should make everything that is not enabling the A inviting. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Was this a mistake? She is coming over too much I think. She asked if she could take one of the dogs over to visit her and I told her sure. Should I have said no? I am letting her do what ever she wants right now.

As far as our money goes I have so far acted as though we are paying for everything together. If she tries to take a trip to see OM though I will not be up for allocating funds to that. She does not make enough money to pay all of her bills and make any trips. But since we are paying together it will basically be padded so that she will be able to use left over money in her account. Since I am stuck with the mortgage and Bills for a large house and she is not paying them. Sounds like there is no solution here. If I make our finances totally separate that would be a big LB and should be saved for right when I go into plan B. I see finances as at least one place to practice POJA and I don't want to give that up.

Need direction. Advice. Help! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

C.

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

Here's a letter I just wrote please give me some input.

WW,

How are you feeling today. Good I hope. I have been thinking about our talk the other night and wanted to share some more of my feelings with you. It was good to finally sit down and discuss some of the issues that we face.

One of the things that I have recently learned about myself is my great need for honesty. It makes me feel connected to you when you share your dreams and goals with me. With honesty we can make thoughtful plans for today and tomorrow. With honesty we can prepare to catch each other before we fall. With honesty we can help each other through times like these. With honesty we can build a marriage full of happiness and understanding. Not having this need for honesty met is one of the things that has saddened me the most in our marriage. Honesty was one of the things that we originally bonded through.

Something that I have been thinking about a lot is a conversation that we had where you told me about overspending on the store credit cards. I remember my reaction well. Angry outburst followed by lecture and demanding the cards. That night I punished you for giving me that which I desired the most, the truth. I want you to know that you can tell me anything that has happened in the past that you have not yet told me. Even if you can't tell me today I will always be here for you to talk to when you need me. I will never again punish you for telling me the truth.

Today, I am focused on what is happening right now and what will happen in the future. I am committed to learning more about myself and why I make the decisions that I do. I do not want the same marriage we had before but a better one and I am willing to work for it.

Well it's getting late and I need to get some rest. Take care of yourself.

With my Love,

Me


C.

Shmaley,

Sorry you are still under the weather. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As for her coming and going, well if it is hurting you, then maybe plan B needs to be revisited a bit more seriously.

Now as to your letter, why are you sending another one? I see you have a lot to say but talking sense to a WS is often like spitting in the wind. Good stuff but it just shoots right past a WS.

Save it for a better opportunity. As for promising NOT to get mad at her again, I'd temper taht statement down..... the truth can hurt and you are vulnerable to an LB or 2.

Instead you could say something like: The last time you gave me some truth, it hurt and I did get angry. While I can't promise NOT to get angry again, I will certainly work hard to appreciate your truthful yet hurtful statements instead of just reacting off the cuff. Of course, it w/b better if the truth c/b filled with more good stuff. Then it w/b easier for me NOT to get upset. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

See end on a light note and still get your point across without making any commitments.

JMHO,
L.

Thanks for the pointer on the letter. As usual I think you are right. It is not realistic to say I will never get angry again. As well, your statement puts some of the responsibility back on her which is where it needs to be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for why I am writing another one. I am writing it in advance and will send it when I feel the time is right. Just really needed to feel like I was doing something positive. Because I was sick I couldn't even work on myself and that has been my outlet. Jennifer C. said I should "persue" WS and try to share with her what I have learned. Even though she will probably not respond while the A is still active. As Jennifer C. put it I am planting little seeds with these letters that will grow later.

Jennifer also suggested that my journal be in the direction of what did I do for WS today. What am I doing to show her that I care. This does not have to be contact but can be reading a couple of chapters in a book. So I am trying to keep in this direction by working on these things.

Here is the revised copy let me know what you think.

WW,

How are you feeling today? Good I hope. I have been thinking about our talk the other night and wanted to share some more of my feelings with you. It was good to finally sit down and discuss some of the issues that we face.

One of the things that I have recently learned about myself is my great need for honesty. It makes me feel connected to you when you share your dreams and goals with me. With honesty we can make thoughtful plans for today and tomorrow. With honesty we can prepare to catch each other before we fall. With honesty we can help each other through times like these. With honesty we can build a marriage full of happiness and understanding. Not having this need met is one of the things that has saddened me the most in our marriage. Honesty was one of the things that we originally bonded through.

Something that I have been thinking about is a conversation that we had where you told me about overspending on the store credit cards. I remember my reaction well. Angry outburst followed by lecture and demanding the cards. That night I punished you for giving me that which I desired the most, the truth. I want you to know that you can tell me anything that has happened in the past that you have not yet told me. Even if you can't tell me today I will always be here for you to talk to when you need me. While I can't promise not to get angry again, I will certainly work hard to appreciate your truthful statements even when they are hurtful. Of course it would be better if the truth could be filled with more good stuff. Then it would be easier for me not to get upset.

Today, I am focused on what is happening right now and what will happen in the future. I am committed to learning more about myself and why I make the decisions that I do. I do not want the same marriage we had before but a better one and I am willing to work for it.

Well it's getting late and I need to get some rest. Take care of yourself.

With my Love,

Me

Though I would mention as it made me feel good. I was talking to IL's yesterday and MIL told me that she would not even let WW tell her what OM's name was. She told her she did not ever want to know it or him. How ya like them apples. MIL also said that FIL told WW that she could not trust anything that OM said about his past. It has to be getting more obvious to WW all the time that the trade here is not only for me but the whole family.

As for Plan B. Well I'm not there yet. I can be very stubborn when it comes to something I feel is right. Just part of who I am.

Thanks so much Orchid.

C.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shmaley:
<strong> ...That night I punished you for giving me that which I desired the most, the truth. I want you to know that you can tell me anything that has happened in the past that you have not yet told me. Even if you can't tell me today I will always be here for you to talk to when you need me. ....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow Shmaley, as usual (see now I expect you t/b this good in all your letters - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), as usual, you did quite well. Except.... for the above piece. JMHO but I think you shouldn't at this time state you will 'always be here' for her to talk with you. Why? Because that statement c/b used against you. I know it doesn't make sense but then again none of this does, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Gotta run and go clean my new house. We are moving in this weekend. I am tired already - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Keep up the good work and hope you feel better soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take care,
L.

Wow new house that must be exciting!!! The first cleaning is always the best. All downhill from there...lol. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As usual your insight is invaluable. I just took out the always and voila! I'm feeling a lot better today and have a much better attitude. Thanks for caring.

C.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>shmaley: Wow new house that must be exciting!!! The first cleaning is always the best. All downhill from there...lol. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Not exciting, tiring. I hate moving. Did it too many times as a child and hated it. Now that I had to do most of it, I recall why. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Just griping. Otherwise, it's ok. My parents are around and now I have to get used to that. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>shmaley: As usual your insight is invaluable. I just took out the always and voila! I'm feeling a lot better today and have a much better attitude. Thanks for caring. </strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Glad to hear you are feeling better. Your attitude is commendable. Now don't panic or fret if you feel like having a bad attitude or 2 someday ok? That's what venting here is good for. You have done quite well and I am proud of your progress. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

WW called today and wanted to use the computer at the house to write a paper that she is late on. I am at work and I told her that was fine and if she needed any help with computer problems to let me know. So far she has called me once for help. I anticipate another call when she need to make it into an attachment and e-mail it. Is this considered satisfying an EN? And if it is what is that EN? Sorry I can be dense sometimes but the answer is not jumping out at me. At very least I know this is good Plan A etiquette. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

One good thing about it is that I am putting WW before my job by doing this. In the past I have always discouraged WW from calling me at work. In my first letter to her I specifically apologized for this one. Need you guys help on this one.

C.

Well, I don't know what to make of that one. I helped her with her paper and everything went fine. At one point it came up that she didn't know if I would want her to keep coming over. I replied that it was fine she was coming over to work on her papers. Then I pushed a little and asked why would you think that I wouldn't want you to come over? She said I don't know (typical conflict avoidance). So I asked again. She said because this house is part mine too?? (silly answer) I said, no. Then I asked why do you think I would want you to come over? She looked confused and said what do you mean? I just repeated the question. She said, well this isn't easy. Still being upbeat just a little more serious I said, No..no it isn't easy at all. Then I said, because I have a lot of faith in you and the person you are... a lot of faith and I know you'll do the right thing. And then just let it fade out into school paper conversation.

Arrgh.. I feel like I blew it. I think I should have babbled but she wasn't babbling or was she? Maybe something like "hmmm maybe" and then just let it die that way. I started it. Did I blow it. I hope none of this was enabling the A!!?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

C.

Ok, went to the symphony tonight to watch WW play with the orchestra. Found out about the performance from my roommate who is also in the orchestra. I really need to get a schedule. So I got WW a single Red rose and a card. After I got to the show I remembered some advice Bob Pure got once about a card and decided to only give her the rose. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

During the concert I just happend to get the seat next to her instructor's H and made sure that we hit it off. We actually had a lot to talk about. This is probably a good alliance to build. WW has always been greatly influenced by her instructors.

The show went well and I watied for her outside the backstage area. When she showed up I gave her the rose and she gave me that new look she always gives me now when I do something nice for her. Kind of smiling and looks at me funny like " why are you being nice?" I always just smile with my heart.

We stood around and had a glass of champagne. So I asked her what was going on tonight and she told me about a band that she was going to see at the University for a Demo rally. I asked if she cared if I came along. Automatically she went into conflict avoidance mode. "Yeah that would be ok." She was more convincing than usual but I could still see through it. I am really begining to be able to read this stuff. So we stood around looking for a friend that usually stays in our spare bedroom when he comes into town for orchestra. She had him staying on the couch at her new place. I told her that he was welcome to stay at the house in a bed if he liked. So we went outside for her to call him since we couldn't locate him.

I started to push a little harder about if she wanted me to go with to see the band. Told her I only wanted to go if she wanted me to go. I tried to seem as sincere as I could. I said it's ok if you don't want me to come. All the while she kept saying everything but an enthusiastic "Yes". As she started to make her call I could tell she was starting to tear up. Waited for her to finish her call and started to walk her to her car. I could tell she was really fighting back the tears. So I started up a conversation about how great the soloist in the concert was tonight. I talked a lot not starting at her to let her regain her composure as we walked. Trying to make our time together turn out with a good feeling.

When we got to her car I helped her put her things up. Then I told her "I feel like you will have a better time if I don't go tonight." She nodded and was still crying a little. I gave her a big hug and told her to be safe and take care of herself.

So what do you guys think. That was POJA #3 is what I think!!! WHoo Hoo Baby. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


As I was leaving it struck me funny that I feel the best when I see WW cry. At first I didn't understand this and then as I thought a little harder it started to make sense. When she acts like nothing is wrong I feel like she is not hurting and therefore doesn't care. When she cries I am affirmed that there is still feeling there. Feelings for me. Anyways, that's it that's all. I'm not sorry this is long because it's my thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

C.

U felt good enough to step out for a concert? Great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for POJA, R U sure that POJA 3 happened? I'm not sure it happened as a POJA, more like you tried to be sincere and gentle and she couldn't handle it.

Now I have a question, who is staying over her place? Another guy? Even tho' a friend, what makes you sure it isn't more than that? Sorry if that triggers U but it sent my MB sense tingling big time.

Also, why her tears? Hm...... not sure if she is ready for you t/b around yet. U maybe better doing some things briefly and then backing up big time.

Let her wonder about your actions since she won't be able to read them well in the fog.

Check it out with Jennifer C. ok?

take care,
L.

I felt like it was POJA because we both agreed that I would not go. I was happy to let her go have a good time and she was relieved too. Maybe it was just my giver looking out for her. At least I made a thoughtful gesture towards her. Her overactive giver was going to sacrifice once again and I stepped in and stopped it. But I guess if she is fogged bad enough it will make no difference. Depressing. So is it a wash or what?

I must attend concerts and it would be a LB if I just ran off afterwards right? The reason I say I must attend concerts is that me not attending before was a big LB for us. Admiration or some sort of support for her performances is a big EN for WW. This might be an EN that is not one of the 10 on Dr. Harleys chart. Maybe I would call it career support and admiration. I do see what you are saying with maybe she isn't ready to see me yet. There is probably some middle ground here I just don't know where it is.

Yes, the person staying over is another guy. Not much I can do about that I don't think. If I were to show jelousy now where would that get me? No, I do not trust her. However, I do not see what to do here. The guy and I are fairly good friends and I trust him more than WW right now but what to do?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Orchid said: U maybe better doing some things briefly and then backing up big time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly what do you mean by this one? I have not called her once in 2 weeks she always calls me or comes over. I understand this is still contact but it makes it hard to back off. Are you maybe suggesting that I don't answer some of her calls and make sure that I am gone when she comes around? The concert is really the first time I have initiated contact in over 2 weeks. I felt like it was a good one to use up.

As for the crying, I was hoping that it was her snapping out of the fog for a moment. You have more experience so what do you think? This is so damn hard. Heart and Mind are still not totally in sync but I am getting there.

I appreciate you more than words can express Orchid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

C.

C -

My daughters dad is a muscician and admiration for this is huge on his EN list. It was probably the biggest mistake I made when we were together - not taking an interest in his performances and not letting him know how talented I thought he was. I think for all performers this is very important, but I learned it too late - just thought he knew how good he was. But he needed to know that I thought so too.

So you are right in thinking this is big EN for her.

I can't speak for Orchid but what I read in her reply was yes, don't be quite so available for your WW. Time for her to start wondering about where you are and what is going on with you. Wait until Orchid comes back on to see how much of a back off you need to do, and when.

I like the Plan A, coupled with the 180. Ark has posted the 180 before, sure you can do a search if you are not familiar with it.

Weaver thanks for the reply! I found this list that believer posted and put in my situation.

Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.

I have done this on the level that Jennifer C. suggested. Letters to explain concepts in my words. regret for the saddness in our marriage. Confidence that our marriage can be better beyond our wildest dreams. No begging,pleading, or imploring though.

2. No frequent phone calls.

Almost no calls at all.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

I have done this in letters as directed.

4. Do not follow her around the house.

She doesn't live here now.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

Do not do this.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

I do this and exercise great caution.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

Do not do this

8. Do not buy gifts.

A rose last night is the first time I have done this.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

Have tried to do this but she says "No time". She is ver very busy and I can account for this. Not too busy to talk to OM for 45min every night though.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

Have never done this.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

Do not do this.

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

Have done this unless this is suppost to make her feel that I am moving on without her. She has noticed all my moving on changes but knows that I still want our M to work.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

Have definitly done this!

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

Have done this.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

Not doiing this. I try to initiate conversation now a little more than before. She always complained that I was too quiet before.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

I am in this habit and I have stopped almost all together. Last night was the exception. Going out has always bee a LB between us and I was trying to be more outgoing.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

I think I have conveyed this one clearly. That is if she can see through that fog.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

I have done this on some level. Obviously, I do not avoid her but I do not initiale contact either.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.

I do this. Now wouldn't this be hard with little contact?

20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

I have done done this. She knows that I will only talk with her about R and M if she is ready.

21. Never lose your cool.

Havent since the week of D-day.

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.

Might be a little guilty of this one. I turn on my happy voice when I talk to her.

23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).

Absolutly do not do this. Ever.

24. Be patient

I am quietly.

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

I do this but what is the point most of it is babble. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Seriously though I listen very closely and focus.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.

I do this.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

I do this.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.

I do this.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

Like the tap tap tap of chinese water torture. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

I do not.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

I focus on what I have learned as per what Jennifer C. told me to do. However, I am very concious of allowing WW to have her say.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.

WW just clams up when she is hurting and scared. I am still having trouble with the first part of this. Want to believe in something solid. This is good advice.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

I will not.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

I will not.


Let me know what you think of my 180 so far and if you think it would be worth implementing the changes here that I am not already doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

C.

Well it sounds like you are doing a fine job at the 180.

You are in good hands with Jennifer and Orchid. There is nothing more I can think of to add.

Except I hope that you truly are doing as good as you sound. Some times people come on here and sound that they are keeping it all together but in the quiet moments they are in such unbelievable, gut-wrenching pain and we don't that get from their words.

You are so very young with such wisdom, and I hope that your pain is not too deep, and I hope that happiness (well inner peace is probably the most we can hope for at this point) is a sometime vistor to your life these days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hang on C. you are not alone and I am glad you found this board to help you along this very hard journey you have been asked to walk.

Weaver

Thanks for the support Weaver. I have my triggers and bad days just like everyone else. Right when your doing the best the crappiest things come out of the woodwork. Like tonight for instance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Tonight was my Grandma's birthday. Went over and as usual had to explain (lie) about where WW was. Said she was working. This really grates on me to lie to my family to protect someone who is kicking me while I'm down. Right before I left the house to go to this party I got some bad mail. Symphony contract for WW to sign to sub in OM's town. Well that was a bit of a dampener right before the birthday party dampener. Soooo I am feeling kinda like **** but probably a little worse. Wish I was joking.

Tried to call IL's they don't have time to talk to me (guests). This kind of made me angry but I am just being sensitive. My other big confidant is tied up but might call tonight. Actually, she sent me an e-mail that is the only reason that I am not really ranting right now.

Well, if I wasn't so damn tired from running around all night I would go out but I am beat. So I will probably just go to sleep. Going to sleep at 10:00 on a Sat. makes me feel like a L****. I know I am not but...well you understand.

C.

Shmaley,

Glad you went to your grandma's but why are you lying for her absence? Where is your exposure plan?

There have been a few things you and other BS' have been posting lately and when there is NO exposure, plan A goes from being a healthy plan to show your best to being a doormat. I may start a separate thread on that thought.

Of course, this is not just what you are doing but many a BS here have done. It is the desire to protect that is often used against the BS and family. You'd be surprised the lengths a WS will go to without even knowing it of protecting their A at the expense of all else. Protecting one's family is not an option for them, some even seem to enjoy abandoning and abusing their former loved ones in lieu of their A. Crazy but true. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

As for your feeling run down, well that's par for the course right now. Your body maybe showing signs that it no longer wants to participate in the stress that is being heaped upon it. Pay attention to yourself and get some R&R. Yep, you need it as much as water and good food. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

My parents do not know about the A. And the rest of my side of the family knows nothing. Except for one aunt and uncle. I was doing this for protection and to help us rebuild more easily. WW has never been a big family event participant because she didn't seem to fit in, (her words).

Now, I can look at this two ways. I should expose because it would further take away from the fantasy. And since she did not go to a lot of family functions anyways we would not lose a lot. Example she would not be fighting daily embarrassment during recovery.

Or I can look at it like she never has any contact with them anyways and what would the use be of me telling them? Looking at it this way the only use of telling her is to give me family support. But I know what that support turns into, just pure anger. My father has to not talk when I am talking about it because he is so angry and he doesn't even know about the A.

I mean if I did tell them should I encourage people like my Grandma or Grandpa to feel free to call her. Would it do any good? Wouldn't that be a huge LB. I really must address this with Jennifer C. I guess. I would still like your opinion though Orchid. When you reply please address exposure of the A and exposure of our separation separately.

On her side only her parents and aunt (she is very close to) know. They know everything as I have told them. Her grandparents and other extended family know nothing at all.

C.