Hello board <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I have recieved so much support for my efforts to save my M and I strongly feel that without this site and the many supporters here my M wouldn't
have had a snowballs chance in Ethiopia (Just got thru watching the mens 10,000 meter run) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

My W is now back home, and we live in the same room again. These things in themselves are a fantastic step forward, as without those steps being taken I don't think I would have had the fortitude to hang in there any longer. The questions that I now have are just as important as ones I raised during her EA/PA. I have suggested that my W post here to recieve advice/support from others here who have helped me so much. She says she will, but she has not. It's very important to me that she posts, though I know unless she wants to there is nothing I can do to initiate it. I accept that reality. My problem is I do not see her doing much to began the recovery process. It's been a couple weeks since she's come home, but her bag remains packed in our bedroom. When I "NEED" to discuss things in our relationship or her feelings on our M she withdraws. In fact she gives off the vibe that bringing up issues of her EA/PA only derails her. As she stated earlier in the week;

"I'm trying to focus on the things i need to be focused on and I only think of my R with OM and OMP's when you bring it up....I'm trying to forget it!"

I don't want to talk about OM I want to talk about our M. I want to rebuild our bond. I do not want to stray from my M. I want to make our M as A proof as possible. Why can't she see that. Is she still in contact or fogged or what? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I need things from her that she is not providing and her somewhat non-chalant attitude is beginning to wear me down. I have tried to meet her needs, and when I ask she responds that yes she feels happy, BUT WHAT ABOUT ME? She is not meeting my needs.

Some of you may recall the caring, thoughtful things that I've done for my FWW.

A nicely prepared meal
A Night Spa
Love Letters pasted with ILY's in hidden places
Poetry

And for the record I've always done these things. I just stepped up my consistency during PLAN A.

I can't help but feel used. I get the impression she feels 'JUST BEING HERE" is enough.
IT IS NOT! Sorry. I have my own EN's and you aren't meeting them, what's worse I don't
even see you making attempts to do so. Initially when I found MB I printed out the EN's
Questionnnaire. My W was reluctant to answer questions and simply ran down the list
giving me good marks, with very little explanations. She said that she didn't want to
start any disagreements. My attitude is, if there are challenges lets identify them and
work out a way to overcome them together. I guess I could print out the Questionnaire
again and see if she'll take it, but I honestly don't feel that would be very enthusiastic
about the test. I also don't feel she's enthusiastic about rebuilding our M. She seems to
be just happy to sit back and let time take care of it. I totally disagree with sitting
back and continuing life as if nothing happened. I also do not want her to continue in
outside activities that percipitated her EA/PA.

All is not well. She had an EA/PA and now she says she's recommited to her M and
family. Her actions (as best I can tell) show she is no longer seeing OM or OMP's,
but the show isn't over. Now that I have learned some principles on how M should
work, I NEED more from this relationship. Many of my EN's have been negelected during
our M, while I busted my hump trying to provide hers. i feel like I'm being played because
she knows how much I love her and my family and that I'll do anything to perserve our
family that she doesn't have to WORK. An old GF of mine recently contacted me and I told my
W about it. I stated I didn't feel comfortable being contacted by her and I suggested i get
our number changed. My W barely responded, and showed no real definitive interest in
this OW calling our home. In fact she said;
"I don't feel threatened by her so there's really no need to do anything"
????
Unbelieveable!
She doesn't feel threatened? She just put me thru hell by having an ongoing
EA with OM for over a year and half after we reconciled from a 2 year separation AND you
DON'T FEEL THREATENED? I do. I feel threatened for my M. Neither one of us should be spending
time with, talking to, emailing, hanging out with or anything of the like with ANYONE besides our
spouses.

I feel taken for granted, unappreciated, disrespected,
neglected, run=amuck, bamboozeled, flabbergasted and left breaking my back trying to
save our M while she sleep walks thru. It's so sad it's funny. If I bring up all my
concerns and needs I think she'll just use them as ammunition to withdraw and blame it
on me, she'll probably say the same things that she's said in the past;
"I'm not good at being M"
"I don't think about all of those things, I'm sorry but I cannot change it"
"Honestly if I do change, it wont be a lasting change....I know me"

Well before we had 2 kids you should have copped out.
Before I went thru the last 2 years of eating crow while you kept your head in the clouds
dazzling around the thoughts of "YOUR FRIEND" you should have thought about that.
People this is not a good day. I've been breaking my neck to meet her needs,
the LEAST she could do is attempt to meet mine.

If she does registed here, her screen name should be
"Heads Stuck in the Clouds"
"Takes Family For Granted"
"Crow Feeder"
"Cop Out Queen"
"FM Works While I Chill"
"EA's are Cool"
and my personal favorite
"I'm Just Not The Kind Of Person Who Can......FILL IN THE BLANK"

Sorry FM's venting, is it too early to start drinking on a Friday? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Between a 14 year old daughter who is driving me crazy and a W who is driving me crazy I'm ready to pack up my son and I and head for DISNEYLAND!

Hey there's a plan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

FamilyMatters:

You hear everyone complain about how hard Plan A or Plan B is, right? Recovery is much harder. There are real expectations, and a real chance of failure on both sides of the equation.

The only way recovery works is with a plan. A real plan. And generally, you need someone to guide you over the rough spots. Get into counseling---with either the Harley's (888-639-1639 for appointments) or with Penny at SYMC. Do it yourself at first---but they'll be able to get your wife involved shortly after you begin. It's your best bet...

And, just for you:


Dada, Album: Puzzle, Dizz Knee Land

I just ran away from home
Now I'm going to dizz knee land
I just crashed my car again
Now I'm going to dizz knee land
I just robbed a grocery store
I'm going to dizz knee land
I just flicked off President George
I'm going to dizz knee land (2)
I just tossed a fifth of gin
Now I'm going to dizz knee land
I just got cuffed again
I'm going to dizz knee land yeah
Shot my gun into the night
I'm going to dizz knee land
I just saw a good man die
I'm going to dizz knee land
Come on...I'm going to dizz knee land
Kicked my [censored] out of school
Rolled me out into the streets
Hitched a ride on a monkey's back
Headed west into the black
I'm going to dizz knee land

Oh yeah, one other point:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been breaking my neck to meet her needs, the LEAST she could do is attempt to meet mine.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the earliest things Steve Harley taught me was to not overcommit to behaviors that I couldn't sustain for a lifetime. If you're killing yourself trying to do "too much" to meet your wife's needs---you need to pull back somewhat. You will exhaust yourself AND you will set an expectation from her that you may not be able to meet. And when you don't---you will prove yourself as untrustworthy and inconsistent---just more vapor for the fog.

Get into the counseling as soon as you can.

FM,

Got a case in the fridge, well .... just shy of a case. Come over. I love you man!

TJ

FamilyMatters - Well it does sound like the two of you are in recovery - below is article by Dr. Harley.

Most affairs don't end a marriage. But unless the marital problems that helped create the affair are resolved, an affair can sure make a marriage a lot worse than it was before the affair. The letters C.W. and S.C wrote are proof of that.

Still, after an affair is over, a couple has a window of opportunity to fix what was wrong in a way that can make their marriage better than it ever was. But one of the biggest obstacles to such a recovery is the emotional reactions left over from the affair.

Ideally, as I discussed in Part 2 of this series, an unfaithful spouse should choose to permanently separate from a lover and return to his or her spouse to rebuild the marriage. In that situation, after a period of withdrawal, both spouses usually attack the task of marriage rebuilding with a remarkable zeal. Granted, there are scars, but the fact that the unfaithful spouse was willing to abandon the lover to save the marriage is usually viewed as an appropriate first payment toward just compensation. Especially if there is willingness to make the other payments, to overcome Love Busters, do a better job meeting the victimized spouse's emotional needs, and create a more integrated lifestyle.

But because most affairs do not end with a choice to permanently separate from a lover, the recovery stage does not usually begin with much zeal. Instead, it begins with bitterness. If the affair dies a natural death (the spouse and lover simply drift away, or the lover ends it), the unfaithful spouse wakes up to find himself or herself still married, but married to a spouse who is very upset about everything that happened. How does one go about getting that kind of marriage restored?

It's very common for the spouse having the affair to feel unremorseful. And it's common for the victimized spouse to feel that it wasn't his or her fault, either. So when an affair has ended, and a couple is ready to rebuild their relationship, neither wants to take responsibility. They both look at each other as having been very selfish, and they look at themselves as having gone the extra mile, with nothing to show for it. Why apologize for something that was the other person's fault?

There is a sense in which an apology is not really necessary. The only thing that's necessary is for the couple to take appropriate steps to rebuild their relationship. But an apology can certainly make taking those steps much easier.

S.C.'s wife is not sorry she had an affair. In fact she feels that it did her some good. She "finally did something for herself." That sure sounds like her Taker, doesn't it (if you don't know what a "Taker" is, be sure to read "The Giver and the Taker" in my Basic Concepts). Her Taker is only concerned about her happiness, and not the least bit concerned about S.C.'s happiness. It was her Taker that was doing the talking for her, telling S.C. that he had it coming, after what he had put her through with all of his drinking.

Taker's don't ever apologize. But they demand it of others. It was S.C.'s Taker that wanted an apology from his wife. It remembered that S.C.'s Giver had once told his wife he was sorry for his neglect of her while he was drinking, and now it was time for his wife to apologize for her offense. But at this point in their relationship, neither of their Givers are anywhere to be found, so there is little hope for repentance.

But now that the affair is over, does it do S.C. any good to try to pry an apology out of his wife? At this point, her feelings for S.C. are not the best, and any effort on his part to try to make her feel guilty will do nothing but withdraw more love units from an already bankrupt Love Bank. His best approach is to ignore the past, and focus on what he can do to start depositing love units. The more love units he deposits, the more her Taker will drop back and allow her Giver some room to maneuver. In fact, if her Giver shows up, she may surprise S.C. with an apology for the affair without him even asking for one.

S.C.'s best course of action is to create the best marriage possible by learning how to meet his wife's emotional needs, overcome Love Busters and create a unified lifestyle where neither of them would have second secret lives that can grow into affairs.

But in spite of what I've just said, I encourage each spouse, if possible, to override their Takers' instincts and apologize to the other anyway. The unfaithful spouse should apologize for having betrayed a valuable trust, for having hurt in the worst way possible the very one he or she promised to love and cherish. The victimized spouse should also apologize for having failed to meet important emotional needs that the unfaithful spouse had been promised at the time of marriage.

Why do I encourage an apology when the Takers are adamantly opposed to offering them? Because an apology is really in order (they did, in fact, hurt each other), and it also helps settle down the Takers, as long as they both apologize. S.C.'s wife knows that she did the wrong thing when she had an affair. It's her defensive Taker that will not let her apologize. But if she could let her defenses down for one moment and honesty express her Giver's regret for what she had done, it would give S.C. some encouragement.

But once apologies are made, a couple should move on to the business of rebuilding their relationship, and not dwell on the mistakes of their past. As much as you may want to talk about the affair or about any other mistake made, remember that every conversation on those subjects withdraw love units. And a Love Bank must first be overflowing with love units before you are in a position to waste any.

In C.W.'s case, he is close to having traversed the first two stages of marital recovery after an affair. He has completed the first stage by being completely separated from his lover, and he is near the end of the second stage where he is coming to the end of withdrawal from his dependence on her. Granted, he is still depressed, but part of his depression comes from living alone, and having a feeling of hopelessness trying to get his wife's cooperation to restore their marriage.

I think that both couples are ready for the third stage of marital recovery after an affair: Rebuilding their relationships. They all seem to be willing to negotiate, and are willing to let their spouses meet their emotional needs. That means they are no longer in the state of emotional withdrawal and are firmly fixed in the state of emotional conflict (if you do not understand the terms "withdrawal" and "conflict" see "Negotiating in the Three States of Marriage"). So any attempt to make their spouses happy is likely to have its desired effect -- love units will be deposited.

These two marriages are now in a position to be restored if the spouses take the correct steps. In some ways, both couples now have the same opportunity to solve their marital problems as they did before the affairs took place. And if they had done it then, they would have avoided all of the pain that the affairs inflicted on them. They are now where most bad marriages are, burdened by Love Busters and the failure to meet important emotional needs. So if they can toss off those burdens, they will not only create the marriage they need, but also eliminate the risk of another affair.

The steps these couples should take to restore their marriages are described in my book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love. It explains how couples can identify and overcome the Love Busters, anger, disrespect and demands. It also shows couples how to meet each other's emotional needs. But most importantly, it teaches couples how to create compatibility -- how to create an integrated lifestyle where dishonesty and secret second lives are eliminated.

The solution to most marital problems requires spouses to override their Taker's instincts. Doing what you feel like doing works great when you are in love, because the Giver calls the shots. But when you are not in love, and your Taker is in charge, your instincts will make matters much worse. The Taker wants you to get angry, be disrespectful and make demands. All of those Love Busters withdraw love units and also create defenses that make depositing new ones almost impossible.

Both C.W. and S.C. find their spouse's Love Busters coming between them and the restoration of love. But I'm sure that both of them are dishing them out as well.

So the first step in the restoration of marriage after an affair is to lay down the weapons. Each spouse must make a concerted effort to avoid anger, disrespect or demands at all costs. Every time they are together, they must do whatever it takes to make the relationship safe for each other.

Once they can guarantee each other safety, by protecting each other from Love Busters, they are ready to learn to meet each other's emotional needs. But they will have to learn to negotiate all of these issues with the Policy of Joint Agreement in mind. They must begin by guaranteeing each other that the cost of a great marriage will not require personal sacrifice. It will only require a willingness not to do anything that would hurt each other. They must understand that everything they will be doing in the future must take each other's feelings into account, and safety will be the guiding rule from now on.

With personal safety as the condition for negotiation, and enthusiastic mutual agreement as the goal, a couple is ready to rebuild. But that environment of safety may take a while to create. It may be the very first skill that they will need to learn before they can negotiate satisfactory.

Getting beyond this first step -- setting a safe stage for negotiating -- may take some careful thought and planning, but one thing is for sure, negotiations that are not safe or pleasant will not give you a solution to your problem.

The second step for successful negotiation is to present the conflict to each other with each spouse trying to understand and respect the other's perspective. C.W. has a need for recreational companionship. That need may have been partially responsible for his affair, and he would like his wife to meet that need so he will not be tempted in the future. But his wife feels that their time should be spent together as a family, and if he wants to be with her, he must also include their daughters. They must both understand and respect each other's feelings about this issue if they expect to resolve it.

The third step is to brainstorm without criticizing each other's tentative solutions to the problem. They should write them all down and give themselves a chance to think about them without dismissing any of them right away.

The fourth step is to choose the solution that they both feel enthusiastic about following. In most conflicts, one of the solutions will jump out as the right one, especially if both Learn More!

"Surviving an Affair"
spouses have given themselves some time to think about the entire list and about their conflicting perspectives on the problem. If no solution meets the criterion for "enthusiastic agreement, keep brainstorming.

The purpose of these four steps is to solve marital conflicts in a way that deposits love units, and avoids withdrawing them. In other words, the goal is for you and your spouse to be in love with each other. That goal is worth more than any specific decision you will make. But, you will discover, if you keep that goal in mind, your decisions will be incredibly wise because they will have the combined wisdom of both you and your spouse. That's the secret to martial reconciliation and compatibility -- to be able to resolve conflicts together in a way that meets each other's emotional needs and accommodates each other's feelings.

One final thought: How much time should be spent each week trying to reconcile? My advice is to spend as much time with each other as you can. A vacation away from friends and children is ideal because it gives you an opportunity to give each other much needed undivided attention. But remember, consistency is also important. You can't expect a three weeks vacation followed by abandonment to lead to reconciliation. So, I suggest that you spend a minimum of 15 hours each week with each other, regardless of how much time you spend in other weeks. And the time should be spent without friends, family or children, learning to meet each other's most important emotional needs.

Thanks K...I appreciate it.
Tom, I hope you have a few left, I could use more than a couple.

Believer: GREAT INFO.

It came a tad late though... or should I say I've been on back on the rollercoaster again. I think my W has re-established contact/or she is lying to me about her whereabouts. Friday evening a co-worker of hers called to leave a message for her. The Co-Worker talked to me about passing on some info for my W since she had left early. When my W arrived at home I asked her what time she left work and she insisted it was after 5:00, but the phone call her co-worker called at 4:30!!

Something isn't JELLIN! I knew exactly what time it was because the co-worker is actually one of the people my W supervises and she wanted me to tell my wife "I'm leaving the office, no one and I do mean no one is here and its 4:34". Which brings me to this:
Why Lie?
Why not be honest?
Why not lay the cards on the table?

I LB'd she LB'd. I had a sense something was going on with my W the days perceeding this issue, but whenever I tried to get her to open up she'd withdraw into that corny...everythings fine routine. I hate the corny everything's fine routine; it's soooo condescending. It's like she's saying I'm an idiot without actually saying it.

I slept on the couch. I woke up bright and early and started making myself busy around the house. Ladies, I even washed the walls in the kitchen and dining room! Anything to be active and not LB. When my W woke up and got dressed she came out, didn't speak (I guess she was made I found out about her lie...BLAH!) Oh I forget the best part was Friday...when she yelled..
"everything would have been fine if you would have just stayed out of my business!!"

She was referring to my blowing the whistle on OM and helping bring an end to her EA! That hurt me more than you guys could know, it's okay for her to say selfish jibberish when we were in the heat of the affairs end but she's now backsliding. She even went so far to say,
"I feel like I'm being forced to do this"
THIS being be MARRIED TO ME and give up OM!
He dumped HER! How the hell am I forcing her to be in our M? Let's not forget the nice creshendo where she told me
"I dont consider what I did cheating!"

Let see,
She lied to me repeatedly about where she was going so she could spend time with OM and OM's Parents.

She used my car, my money and my trust to do things for OM without my consent.

When I sensed she was back in contact with OM she denied it and tried to make me feel like I was just paranoid.

ENOUGH!

She's not on BOARD. She doesn't want to be married. Here we go again. SORRY this is my stop, I have neither the energy or inclination to go thru another month, week or day of this foolishness. Go have him, if he'll have you that is. Go find your friends. Go immerse yourself in your pretend family, meanwhile you destroy your real family. Someone please do me a big favor and remind my W that cheating on your spouse and breaking up a family IS damaging to the children! My W is so fogged out she actually thinks it's OKAY to separate our children, just so she can continue her relationships with OM and OM Parents.

She left today, it was heated. I don't regret it! I think it's best she leave. She didn't want to be here anyway, SHE WAS JUST DOING ME A FAVOR. On my birthday a few days ago she buys me this card thanking me for supporting her and guiding her back to our M and today it's like she never gave me the card and she is TRAPPED in our M?!?!?!?

I don't want her back until she detoxes. I can't take the pain of this rollercoaster ride any longer. I tossed my cookies 3 loops ago <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I thought fighting to save our M was the right thing to do, but now I feel like it's just too grueling especially when your the only one fighting. I wanted so badly to give my children the gift of a traditional homelife, a homelife I never experienced. I have made many mistakes, but for once I felt 100% sure that this was NOT a mistake.
I don't want to care anymore, but lookey lookey its 4:40AM and I'm up typing this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Her last words to me were EFF ME...so I guess that's the way it will end? After all my work, after all my support it's eff me?

BLAH BLAH BLAH....

I strongly feel one day she will fully awake from her fogged state and realize what she has lost and come back, the only problem is I'm emotionally exhausted NOW, later reconciliation and the hard work of recovery will seem much too strenuous.

Eff ME? For what? Not wanting my W to be holding on to an old boyfriend? Oh I get it, that makes sense... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sorry for the chain of events in your relationship. She is not out of the fog yet. She is torn between right and wrong and it will take some time. I don't think it is over just another setback.

You are trying too hard. I did the same thing. Read this article for it may help you.

http://www.troubledwith.com/Web/gro...amp;sssct=Other%20Things%20to%20Consider

You must remember the steps to get to the point you are at today have been long and painful. The steps back are longer and painful. There are no shortcuts at all. Don't give up hope but look for an alternate approach to your case.

TooSoon

FM...I am SOOOOOOOO sorry ( <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ) about the recent turn of events.

(Hey...btw...you might be wondering what the heck I'm posting for after my "last" post: Mrs & I had a talk...she knows how important for me this site is...she just wanted more directed at her than everyone else! I completely understand. Been part of my problem all along. She's the one the actually told me about you and your post. I hate to see anyone in pain, much less a friend.)

Anyway, I can not fathom the pain and frustration (etc., etc., etc.) that you have been through. I only pray and wish that she snaps out of this and sees what she is doing to you and your kids. And ironically, I *know* you would would give her the biggest hug in the world and say, "It's OK, baby. Time to come home." ***IF*** she were willing. Really willing.

From reading most (if not all) of your posts (even from before when I got here), you, like me, are not a "strict" MB follower. (Maybe I'm wrong?????) "Whatever plan that works", right? But, you are starting to turn. I can see it. You can see it. I'm sure your kids can see it. But, the fact is, deep down, you are still so deeply in love with your wife. Regardless of what she is doing, you need to preserve that--for *YOU*. I know it sounds sort of contradictory, but, really, it's not.

If I know anythihng about your story--you--you need to start thinking about plan B. (This is why I said what I did above, about being "strict.") Unfortunately--or fortunately--however, whoever reads this perceives it--*********YOU, FM*********need this.

In *NO* way is you marriage over. But, friend, *I* can't stand to see this pain anymore. I know you can't.

You have done everything, everything conceivably possible to do your own thing of a plan a. Right? For a long time. Only *you* know when it's time to take it further. And you get nothing. I may have missed a thread somewhere, but I am shocked noone else has suggested this to you.

Then again, only FM knows whats best for what matters best for he and his family.

Keep the faith. Keep your head up. And keep giving those kids of yours big FM hugs.

We are praying for you. As I will be posting less and less on this site as a whole (we also have alot of other stuff on our plate--I'll explain a different time) feel free to email me (or any other MB'ers out there!) to let me know how you're doing--and offer any advice/support I can. (fitzirishcream@optonline.net)

LINY

So sorry ! It sounds like that fog is there and she maybe in contact .. OR also just the rest of what you said, she is not in anyway giving to the recovery process other then to be there , she isn't even givignthe accountablity of time .

Yes recovery can be as hard if not harder then all of it put together , only when the BS is the one doing all the work .

YOU have done work and all of it ,, time to chill to a degree , maybe PLAN B ?

There is no need for you to keep getting kicked . NONE at all .

she is taking all for granted .
It hurts very much when the WS shows no sign of thinking that after what they put the BS through that getting contacted by an XGF could be at all harmful .IT amkes ya want to stand up and yell , hey buddy don't ya think I could do it to .

BANGING your head against a wall hurts so there comes a time to get some ice and stop doing it .

I am not saying to give up on the M , but you may need to let go and see where it takes you.

I hope with all my heart that today is a better day. Keep posting even to vent , there are plenty here listening .

YOUR WORTHY OF LOVE AND HAPPINESS ! NOTHING LESS WILL DO , CHIN UP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey folks thanks a million for your kind words <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Hey LINY thanks for checking up on me, I've been going thru the ringer.

I returned from grocery shopping yesterday to find WW here packing some of her belongings. I took the time to sit down and jot out the particulars for finances and visitation. My W is determined that M is not for her and her leaving is the best thing for everyone involved. YEAH RIGHT! It's the best thing for her. Why is it WS's tend to believe that us BS's are clueless?? Who does she think she's fooling? Come on, on the 13th you give me a card lising how great I've been supporting you and how much closer we are because of it, and then less than a week later you're saying you leaving is the best thing to do. Someone's back in contact with OM or OMP's!!!

I am not an idiot. She must think I don't know what color the sky is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I was reading a post from Lost Sailor where ORCHID advised him not to work on a marriage with a WS unless they are ready to be a XWS. This is some of the best advice I've ever read on this subject, but the only problem is at least in my case, MY WS led me to believe she WANTED to be an XWS but I don't think she was being honest. I think if I hadn't caused a bump in the road for her and OM she would have left eventually anyway. My exposing the A only prolonged the inevitable. I am resolved to let the chips fall where they may. I am confident that no matter what I did right it wouldn't have made a bit of difference unless she could stick to the NO CONTACT agreement. I made it clear I am not begging, asking, coercing or suggesting she return unless she is 100% unequivocally onboard with this M.

I'm struggling with whether I feel up to do anymore work on this M. Folks please remember me and WW had been separated for 2 years, we reconciled and she moved in with me almost 2 years ago. During the 2 year reconciliation she kept ties with, lied and snuck out to spend time with OM and OM's family. I'm SO SO SO SO tired. Not to mention she's MERCILESSLY huring our children. Can you believe this woman left 2 weeks ago, came home, and then left again?!?! This is not only a painful rollercoaster for me, but for my children as well.

How could I possible trust her again? What if she came back today and said she made a mistake? How could I ever believe her? How can I justify allowing her to ever comeback knowing she could hurt me again and run right back out the door again? My poor foggy WW, I'll be praying for you. Lord help you for the poor choices you've been making and the pain you've been inflicting on our family. I feel like a big sucker for letting her comeback into my life and wreak so much havoc. In the end it seems, to her FAMILY DOESN'T MATTER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I've already begun redecorating my home. I've taken down the pictures of her and I. It's time to exhale and take stock if I was trying to save this M for ther right reasons to begin with. I'm not so sure LOVE is supposed to be this hard.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FamilyMatters:
I am confident that no matter what I did right it wouldn't have made a bit of difference unless she could stick to the NO CONTACT agreement. I made it clear I am not begging, asking, coercing or suggesting she return unless she is 100% unequivocally onboard with this M.

*****Right on, FM. Stick to your guns. You need this to "save" you and your kids.

I'm struggling with whether I feel up to do anymore work on this M. Folks please remember me and WW had been separated for 2 years, we reconciled and she moved in with me almost 2 years ago. During the 2 year reconciliation she kept ties with, lied and snuck out to spend time with OM and OM's family. I'm SO SO SO SO tired.

*****You have done *everything* you could have. But, it was not for a "lost" cause. Remember that. I'm not 'trying' to give you crumbs, but, it has made *you* stronger and a better person. It also (and you may not see it for yours) has left a lasting impression on the kids. They will remember these past few years. They will remember how a husband is supposed to act. They will remember Daddy being strong and loving them regardless. Regardless of your own pain. Unequivacably and unconditionally to the surroundings and ocurrances.

Not to mention she's MERCILESSLY huring our children. Can you believe this woman left 2 weeks ago, came home, and then left again?!?! This is not only a painful rollercoaster for me, but for my children as well.

*****Yes, this will be a lasting impression on your children as well. I think this was discussed before, but maybe your daughter needs to speak with someone other than Dad about this. (IC.) Don't take offense, but it may be necessary.

How could I possible trust her again? What if she came back today and said she made a mistake? How could I ever believe her? How can I justify allowing her to ever comeback knowing she could hurt me again and run right back out the door again? My poor foggy WW, I'll be praying for you. Lord help you for the poor choices you've been making and the pain you've been inflicting on our family. I feel like a big sucker for letting her comeback into my life and wreak so much havoc. In the end it seems, to her FAMILY DOESN'T MATTER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

*****Besides stepping up your "plan", this may be the only thing you can do now, FM: pray for her. I am very concerned about something. You said she was obviously depressed. It seemed you were having problems with her taking the "right" meds (or at all) when she was home. She has already placed destruction on your M; I can only see that it will be self-destruction now. Then again, some people need or can not avoid hitting rock bottom until they start healing.

I've already begun redecorating my home. I've taken down the pictures of her and I. It's time to exhale and take stock if I was trying to save this M for ther right reasons to begin with. I'm not so sure LOVE is supposed to be this hard. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now is *NOT* the time to beat yourself up. This, I can give first-hand advice on. It does nothing. You know you were doing everything you could for *all* of the right reasons. Don't second-guess yourself. You've come way to far!

I always thought that about love to. At first, it's just so, well, easy! Then, throw in a wrench or two (with you it seems like the whole plumbing, not just the kitchen sink), and you actually have to work at it. (This was certainly my character flaw with me and brown.) *BUT* you, my friend, were/are so much stringer than others in your situation. You've done everything possible. You've done everything possible for your kids. Now, do everything possible for FM. Time for *you*, my friend.

I have to add a disclaimer: I know how much effort, BS&T, pain you've gone through (and will continue to do so)...it's a crime to be writing to you and agreeing with you to let the M go--for now at least.

Here's a contradiction: I know I wrote alot, but, somehow, I feel I haven't said a thing. Just hate to see you still hurting, man.

About a month or so ago, there was a good thread about songs. I know you had actually posted a few, me as well. (Like all music, but grew listening to "New Wave", 95% of which was all depressing. (And that's a conservative percentage!)) Anyway, while reading your lat post, couldn't get the lyrics of Linkin Park out of my head: "In the End." Don't seek it out--very depressing--but, if you know the song...well, guess I'm depressed for you, so don't go there!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

3isa thanks for your kind words...I did everything I thought to do..there's nothing I can do at this point...she feels the way she feels..

Yes, I am trying to let go. I've begun the mental process. This is excruciating. All this hard work, please believe I meant well though my application at times was faulty. I wanted to save my family, get rid of outside influences that were detrimental to our recovery. I suggested we attend counseling, but she refused. I honestly don't think she wanted to hear anyone tell her to work on our M. Leaving is what she wanted to do and with OM is probably where she is now. What a humongous slap in the face.


Liny,
Yessssssssssss the plumbing is all out of whack <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...I know she lurks here and she knows my screen name. I have nothing to hide. My feelings are my feelings. I don't believe any marriage can be saved if BOTH people want to save it. I'm not so sure about just one person having the ability to save it; at least not this one person. In retrospect, I realize I could no longer GIVE without GETTING in return. I hung in there for SOOO long. I never begged her to marry me, or begged her to bear my children, why should I have to beg her to save our M?

I know in my heart one day she will regret the H she lost...and for what? I can't believe the 180 degree rotation she has, 7 days ago I'm a great Husband...
Let me Quote from the card she gave me, hell I'm looking at the ILY balloons floating above my head now as I type this. Read it and weep:

In the top of the letter she wrote:
FM, (seriously.....)

On your birthday I just want to let you know
How much I love you
and how happy I am for all that we share
We've been through so much together
and yet we've always emerged closer and
stonger than before
I don't know if I could have
made it through without you there by my side
No matter what life holds in store
I can handle it as long as I have you

Happy Birthday
With All My Love

FM's Wife

Please somebody help me make sense of this?
How can the lady who gave this to me only 7 days or so ago do a complete 180 2 days ago.

Today was the first day of school for our children. My S started 1st grade today and my D started High School! This was a memory me and my W should have shared together.

This is INSANITY....I am so worried for her...she cannot be in her right mind. How do you leave your family the day before their first day back to school?????

Bump for answers, responses, and the love of Pete <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

What do I do next?

Any suggestions?

FamilyMatters -

Well, don't look at me for answers. I filed for D today, which is something I said I would never do.

Yesterday I was watching the Olympics - the 27 mile marathon, or whatever it is. The chick from Kenya was in a very close race toward the end. Then the camera panned over to the sidelines, where her husband (also a long distance runner) was running with her. He was calling out encouragement and urging her on.

In that moment, I knew that I was done trying.

Now where was I? I guess you will have to go back to Plan B.

OUCH!

Yup...drafted the letter and will have it delivered. She leaves me no choice. Believer I feel for you. It sounds like you had an epiphany. Only you know how much you can endure.

Off to B I go, I go I go
Off to B I go

I'm not in a singing mood.

I'm not sure how much more of this I can take.

Hi FM
I was just (trying to) sign on to say "hello" to you.

I read you post and my heart is breaking for you. I know how many times - in a 11 years of marriage - I came so close to just walking. I did feel like those marathon runners and my muscles couldn't take another step. I felt alone and honestly that no one could/would ever know my pain (especially LINY).

I had to "walk" alone to see that I could be alone. I had to be strong for those that God gave to me to take care of (my children). I have 4 - God meant business with me. My children have been my blessings and my strength and in so many ways my *REASON*. I've been a mom for 19 years .... my(our) kids are S19, S18, D10 1/2 and D2 1/2. I'm saying this to you b/c your Family Matters.

I lost my Dad when I was 9 1/2 years old. My Mom (and extended family) raised me and 3 other siblings. I did not want my children to be fatherless. Well, my 2 oldest children - they don't have their "father" ("the sperm donor") - they have LINY ("their Dad"). Our daughters have the both of us (I pray they never know anything else). However, I was/am ready to do whateva I have to for them ... including leave LINY if that's was is the "healthiest" life for them. (I know he feels the same way). You have them - your children - your gifts from God to think of. Your WS is not thinking of them or you (Fog???? They call it. Whateva?!?). Be strong for you and those kids b/c you are "FamilyMatters".

On a lighter (bittersweet) note - How was their 1st day of school? (Ours don't go back until 09/07/2004 - LINY probably can't wait (he got them all day). I can wait (I have the HW!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

We will be praying for all of you

FAITH - HOPE - PEACE - LOVE

Brown

Hello BROWN...how are yah? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Thanks for responding, lifting my moods and reminding me of my other responsibilities and joys...MY CHILDREN!

Their first day of school was FANTASTIC. My son enjoyed his step into first grade. "Dad I'm not in Kindergarten, I'm in 1st grade, by the time I'm 12 I'll be in college"...I love him sooo much!

My D had a great day as well. They handed out the weekly schedule and she's excited about school. A neighbor is giving her a perm as we speak. She is ready for the runway by now.

On a down note:
My W stopped by to drop some lunch money off for my S. She wouldn't make eye contact with me, but she did give me their social security cards. I asked where she was staying and she said belligerently as if to suggest it was none of my business ...."Just With Some Friends".

I inturn gave her my Plan B letter where I explained that I love her and still dream of a reconciliation, I do not want a divorce but I will not set me or my children up to be hurt anymore by her indecisiveness.

End the R with OM, Recommit to the M or we will have no contact, unless for business and childrens well-beings.

This Infidelity business just gets more and more fun by the minute. I wonder what's next? sadistic clowns who throw broken glass instead of confetti? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Laugh to keep from crying.

How's my friend LINY, tell him FM is praying for you both.

FM

I am so happy your kids got off to school ok.

Your son .... where does he get his "thought process" from????

I know your daughter is just gorgeous. High school??? Ugh!

Our D starts "middle school". I don't know if Mom and Dad can handle it.... she'll just do like she did in kindergarten ... walk away and not look back (We were crushed - but her acdemics have been excellent - go figure!).

LINY will probably respond later ... he's the "night owl".

Again, we pray for you and the kids .... your W in our prayers too! (But by Grace! Brother)

Brown