"i was at the house today to pick up the files and stuff. i read the best friend card i once gave you. and for what ist worth i am sorry, for everything. i wish i could go back change things, talk with you more tell you what i was thinking. i wish things had been different. but its gone to far there is no going back now, that pt of no reutern has been crossed for both of us.the house is almost yours we are divborced in three weeks, and for that i am sorry, for not trying harder to work things out.i know later i will wish i hadnt written this letter. but the fact is i miss our life i miss our friendship and that you were the only person who really knew me, and the only one i could be myself around.all the stupid things that mattered like sponge bob, rumming bull, the dogs all of it.but i did this to our marriage so i have to suffer the pain of still living you every day and wishing it hadnt gone this far. you always said i would regret my dession , you can pat yoyrself on the back you were right, i am sorry if this email bother you that is not my intent, but i just needed to let you know. i am sorry. and i will not send you another email like this. "

What do I do now? Any opinions? WW insight?

juke:

Okay, time 2 grab on, use your intellect (and love!):

"i wish i could go back change things, talk with you more tell you what i was thinking."

She can't, and neither can you. But you BOTH can change NOW, talk more and tell each other what you are thinking.

"i wish things had been different. but its gone to far there is no going back now, that pt of no reutern has been crossed for both of us."

Point of no re2urn???? You're both young. I'm 51. I'm almost dead. You and your W have so much time and so many oppor2nities it makes my head spin. SEIZE THE DAY.

"the house is almost yours we are divborced in three weeks, and for that i am sorry, for not trying harder to work things out."

The house will be yours. You can keep it for YOU, for HER and YOU, or for YOU and some other deserving beautiful young lady.

"i know later i will wish i hadnt written this letter. but the fact is i miss our life i miss our friendship and that you were the only person who really knew me, and the only one i could be myself around.all the stupid things that mattered like sponge bob, rumming bull, the dogs all of it."

This is so sweet. It makes ol' 2long cry. It does.

"but i did this to our marriage so i have to suffer the pain of still living you every day and wishing it hadnt gone this far. you always said i would regret my dession , you can pat yoyrself on the back you were right, i am sorry if this email bother you that is not my intent, but i just needed to let you know. i am sorry. and i will not send you another email like this."

I would reply. INVITE her 2 send as many such emails as her sweet, confused heart desires.

there is always HOPE, juke.

-ol' 2long

Juke - As the saying goes, it's not over until it's over and even then it might not be over. I would reply to WW, what's the harm at this point? If the fog is lifting it may be your chance to step in and start the communication process. This e-mail does not sound like it is coming from someone who wants a D, it sounds like it is coming from a very guilty person who is so lost she doesn't know how to get out of this mess she got herself into.

Open the door and your heart to her one more time. Good luck.

Dang Juke, the rollercoaster doesn't stop does it. From following your posts seems like her feelings are all over the place.

I agree with ol2Long, you can't change the past, but you can change the future. I keep telling my WW that, but her answer is the same as Mrs. Juke. It's too late.

Hang tough, your still on the coaster ride.

Thanks all. I want to reply, but don't know what to say and don't want to seem to eager and waiting. This email was a shocker today. For her to do this is amazing. She has not talked about her feelings once this whole time.

This is your time to shine juke!!!

Juke, you should respond. You should not be eager, that's right. You should be calm and wise and strong.

Don't go crazy, but maybe tell her you believe in forgiveness and healing. I don't know exactly what to suggest. If I were in this situation I'd be very careful.

She probably feels like she can never have a good relationship with you because there will be too much pain in your past together. But no matter who she ends up with, or where she goes, this will be a part of her past. There is no way for her to ever escape it. She can let it buzz around her ear forever, or she can face it and let it be what it is, which is a permanent part of herself.

GC

Juke,

My fww's parents stopped their divorice the day before it was to go through. That was following a 3 month extension the judge ordered because he 'felt' things weren't properly in order.

It is never too late.

How do you respond to that email. I say with love.

-----
My love,
We have both hurt each other in ways neither of us will probably ever comprehend, but hurt and pain are a part of life, even when it is coming from our spouse. Take this to your heart, I forgive you, and I also seek your forgiveness for the ways I have wronged you in the past, and for the mistakes and failures I will make in our future. I just want you to know that I love you with all of me, every part, you think of it, and it loves you. I desire nothing but for us to find a way to work out our differences, and find ourselves together again. The cards are not all played yet, we still have time, it's simply up to you. You know the conditions I require for us to try and proceed, and I will equally sacrifice whatever I must to bring us back together. The house is pointless, nothing material matters. We had nothing not so long ago, and together we started to form a life and family. We can start fresh again, but this time, we can start in the knowledge of failures we have made to each other, and as mature adults, we can still choose our life together. My heart is still open to you my love, and I can only pray that you will return to me. I forgive you, the burden you carry is not with me, and I choose us over any other life.

Your loving husband.

------


Of course, that's off the hip, and I'm sure you could throw together something much more relevant. But, the point here is, you are close to the divorice, and have an opportunity to bring her home. She is scared, and rightfully so. I don't know if you are in plan b, or plan a, or any plan at all. I do know you are close the divorice, and she needs to know, you will always allow her back home (perhaps even post divorice, if your faith is strong enough), but, she must repent from her ways (you don't get to tell her that part, all you get to tell her is your requirements of no contact).

Right now, I'd try to smile, get on my knees, and thank God that He is still trying to work on your wife's heart, even this close to it all feeling over. Pray for her protection right now, not from the OM, but from Satan, pray that God's Word will be heard by her.

Hang in there.

Juke,

I agree with 2long... a simple email saying something like this -

Sweetheart,

You can send me emails any time your sweet heart desires.

Me

2long is right on this one. This is a chance to turn the tides to a new and improved friendship with your wife. No relationship talk, only friendly chitchat.

Weaver

I think a nice response like

"Thank you. I really appreciate the thoughtful email you sent. It meant a lot to me."


Short but sweet.

Wow RookKev! That's awesome for off the hip! LOL. That is a great outline, but don't want to be too eager either. Confused

Juke,

I've thought a lot about several discussions of forgiveness that have happened around here, and about my own feelings on the subject, and about the things I've said to my own WW. And I think my advice on this is pretty sound. And that advice, is:

DO NOT TELL HER YOU FORGIVE HER.

I do appreciate RookKev's suggestions, and if I were in your situation I would want to express many of those things. But as a more objective observer, I disagree with the heavy relationship talk. I don't think she is ready to be persuaded with logic. You still need to communicate with her in these new ways that don't involve rational conversation.

The message: you need to accept your mistakes and let them be a part of your life and build a new relationship with me as a more grown up woman who has decided to accept her past and learn from it, rather than hiding from it.

The way you communicate that right now: "Thank you for your message. Please email whenever you want; I like hearing from you."

The other day I was playing with my friends' dog, one of those weirdly smart border collies. She wanted to play the ball-fetching game with me, but would not drop the ball close to me. She kept dropping it several feet away, then waiting for me to come over and grab for it, at which point she would grab it herself and run away. I didn't like this version of the game, so I sat down and got out my book. After I'd read for a minute, the collie let out a little bark. I looked down, and the ball was on the ground next to me.

Of course your WW is smarter than a border collie, a little (WWs are real knuckleheads though, so it's closer than you might think). But the point is, she needs to come to the truth on her own. You whacking her over the head with it will not do the trick, and I think you know it.

All you can do is make it easy and safe for her, and gently shine a light in the direction she needs to go.

GC

<small>[ August 22, 2004, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

Hey now GC....

If WW are smarter than a boarder collie then what of us FWW's? I always thought poodles were the smartest! Oh, maybe if we were poodles we wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.

Then again, if we were poodles then we wouldn't be married because you are human, and well that's just sick.

Okay, I better get outta here and get some sleep - I have no clue what I am talking about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

About the forgiveness thing, I think juke should tell her he's forgiven her, if he has. If not, don't say it. I think it would make his wife feel safer in coming back. Does that make sense????

Ok,

I know your fears of maybe seeming too ready, and I understand grayclouds comments. However, I have to say, you know what, you really aren't applying logic. You are simply telling her the truth, in a male fashion. The male delivery of course, is always laced with logic, it's how we think and communicate and problem solve. It's what makes us men, part of it anyways.

I don't see any point in trying to manipulate or coerce. I think I was trying to convey in my little message, that his heart is still open to his wife. If he is still trying to save his marriage, then forgiveness is a moot point, he is forgiving her in a per second basis, as that is what is required of men with wayward wives. All he is doing is telling the truth.

I think what is important is to demonstrate to her what requirements he has for her to come back, while pressing forwards on his current course of action. No wavering, no waffleing, you keep moving to the end. That is what she is afraid of. She mistook your loyalty for a never ending waiting, and that isn't gonna happen. We all have a point where we cut the cord. Some ws discover the pain before the divorice is filed, some not long after the divorice is final, and others, years down the road, when their affair is long cold, and the parnter long gone, and all they have left is a photo of their kids in high school, because they threw away every memory of them and the bs while they were in the thick of the affair.

The cruel irony of it all. I say, hey, any cost right now, to tell her he loves and forgives her. It's so much easier to stop a divorice than to get divoriced, and remarry and go through all of that.

Carol, I think you FWWs are the smartest breed of all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My impression of WW thinking is that being told they are forgiven lets them off the hook when things are still unresolved. It's like telling a thief in the middle of a robbery that you don't plan to press charges. They aren't ready to appreciate it for the valuable and precious gift that it is.

GC

cloud... off the hook? Are you kidding? The problem is that they are on the hook for the rest of their lives til they come to peace, remorse, and repentance with God. When that happens, a husband has nothing to fear. But until then, all he can operate on is showing that he is trying to change, and acknowledge he failed in the relationship in some way also.

RK, I am not kidding. They might not truly be "off the hook", but some people don't need to be okay with God, they only need to feel they're cool with the person they've injured. And some WSs, even believers, allow themselves exceptions to their moral code for being "in love". Feeling forgiven makes it easier for them to accommodate these exceptions. They say things like, "God wants us to be happy".

GC

Well, ok.

Anyone that tells me God wants me to be happy, I know I can rightly ignore. God loves me and all, but, my happiness is contingent upon my rightness with Him. I know that, so, I guess I don't worry too much on the other side of people telling me, leave her, do this do that, have one of your own... blah blah blah.

I'm just looking at this as he's 3 weeks out. Show love, but be firm. You know what I mean? I probably was a bit too lovey in my msg, but, that is me, not him. I can only really operate off of what I have done myself or read from others. What I do sense, is that he doesn't sound ready for the divorice. That is my concern in this. I know he doesn't want to be divoriced, but, there is a difference between wanting it and being ready for it. Oh man, some days are just so tough, even when there is a glimmer of light.

I'm right with you, RK. My own clock is starting to tick, and I can imagine how Juke must be feeling. How can you be patient and hope for the WW to get it together in 20 days?

It's probably a common WW move to say I'm sorry, I feel like a bum, but now things are so hopelessly broken that we both need to just start over. More B.S. to avoid dealing with themselves.

I'm going to be getting a little of this soon myself, I reckon.

So how does the man Juke himself feel about responding?

GC