Is it a LB to:

When your WW is on a date with the OM, to call her cell phone every 1/2 hour and leave messages.

When your WW comes home from a date with the OM, to be awake at 11:30pm or 1:30am or 6:35am and try to talk about what they did on there date.

Is it a LB to talk about the OM with your WW and try to show her that he is a scum-bag?

Is it a LB to try and explain why your started taking Anti-D's? (I can't breath, sleep, eat, think, see straight, make rational decisions ...)

Is it a LB to tell your WW that you are in so much pain, you are suprised that your still alive?

Is it a LB to remind your WW that what she is doing is hurting so many people?

Is it a LB to leave love notes on your WW car when she is at work?

Is it a LB to send your WW romantic emails?

Is it a LB to ask her regularly to give you a chance? That people who fall out of love can fall beck into love?

I am just asking for a friend.

I am sad.

I would say that all of these are LB's at this time (if it's concerning you and not a "friend").

Brutal honesty here because I see myself in some of these LB's so it's to me too. You're coming off as despeerate and needy. If you were on a 2nd or 3rd date with someone such as yourself, how would you react? I'll bet you'd run just as fast as you can in the other direction.

I know that you just want to make her UNDRESTAND, but you are not portraying yourself as someone she would want to be with.

[WHACK!]
moderately Heavy 2x4 being applied:

As painful as your situation you must realize that most of those things on that list will not effect a WS's decision to be in an A. It's obvious the WS is not considering the feelings of the BS and if you or your friend is performing those actions it will do more hurt than good. Your friend or you might consider doing things that will attract the WS back to you and GUILT will not help.

Sorry, but I'm trying to help and I've made the mistake of doing some of those things on your list. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ August 26, 2004, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

I guess I knew the answer to all those questions. My friend (read: scared little me) is hurting soooo much and sooooo close to giving up.

I cannot think of a reason to continue to give this woman more chances.

I want my marriage, I used to think more than anything. I am not sure if sacrificing myself is something I can continue to do.

I have always believed that the means cannot justify the ends. The means in this case is my sacrific for the ends of the marriage. If I am dead and so out of love for my WW, should I continue this path?

Okay, let me try to explain this. The more you make a WS feel guilty, the more they feel as if they can't be with you. The more it makes you look self-righteous and they feel like pond scum unworthy of anyone's love (which tends to justify the A even more--HE doesn't judge me). (Okay, slight 2x4-sorry).

Now, switch gender roles & I can tell you from my experience --
1) Is it a LB to talk about the OM with your WW and try to show her that he is a scum-bag?
The more I tried to downgrade her, the more he didn't like ME. Thought I was judgmental -- YOu don't even KNOW her! That type of thinking (irrational, I know, but still there just the same).
2) Is it a LB to tell your WW that you are in so much pain, you are suprised that your still alive? Could see it in my face, didn't have to tell him -- he KNEW. He heard from mutual friends how much I cried when I left & that I was suicidal -- Did he come rushing to my aid? No! He felt that I would feel better if he stayed away more. His thinking -- If she's upset b/c of ME, I'll stay away to give her time to "get over me".
3) Is it a LB to remind your WW that what she is doing is hurting so many people? He saw this all around him but his thinking -- in time they'll be okay. It wasn't until AFTER he came home that he saw the REAL effects of him leaving had on the ENTIRE family, not just me.
4) Is it a LB to leave love notes on your WW car when she is at work? Wrote my H two love letters, he ignored both. Possible suggestion for you -- Leave a note that says, Hope you had a good day. Simple, to the point. Doesn't sound desperate.
5) Is it a LB to send your WW romantic emails? Never did this w/my H but I'm sure she will see this as desperation, not romance.
6) Is it a LB to ask her regularly to give you a chance? That people who fall out of love can fall beck into love? He NEVER realized this until about 3 months of being home & seeing that yes, he indeed loved me & this could work. His doubts started to go away. Hearing this from the S is not believed. They have to experience it.

My prayers are w/you, cth. I know what it's like to feel so desperate, so willing to do whatever you can to change their mind, but unfortunately, this is something they have to find out for themselves. It can't be forced onto them. They can't be guilted into it. This is also a process for them too so when they do come back fully to the M, it makes it all the more special b/c you BOTH have learned some very valuable lessons & hopefully, never repeat them in the future.

Thinking of you (I also responded to you on the loyal H's thread about the twins),
Yvette