Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#1181851 09/04/04 11:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
N
nid Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
We've only been seperated a week, but my H has been over almost every day. I couldn't take the way he was making himself at home and just walking in unannounced. It just didn't seem right. This morning I woke up to find him in the kitchen....he had brought donuts for our S who was at a sleep over and wasn't home yet. He's been doing all these nice jestures all week...bringing dinner one day, washing the truck today. It has me confused as heck. I don't ever want to get my hopes up only to be let down.

So this evening when he came by to return the truck (he had borrowed it to move some things into his apt.), I told him we needed to talk. I started off by telling how much I appreciated his thoughtfulness this week, but it was sending me mixed messages and making me wonder what his intentions were. I also said that things need to be equal and since I don't have keys to his apt., I can't just drop by and walk on in. I said the rules have changed now...we are separated and he can't just come and go as he pleases. He asked, not very happily, what I wanted him to do. I told him he need to let me know when he was coming and he needed to knock on the door instead of just letting himself in. I told him that it hurts me too much to have him keep coming and going, that I needed to get on with my life. He said, Oh, okay you want to move on!

He said, you know, I was just trying to be nice and remain a part of S's life. I don't know what you've been telling everyone, probably that I'm the bad guy and I'm just trying to be nice!! And I don't want S to think I'm the bad guy either. Then he said fine whatever you want! I'll stop doing nice things and I'll knock if I come by! Then he stormed off.

Now I feel like crap. I took one look at those uneaten donuts tonight and broke into tears. I know I did the right thing, so why do I feel so bad?

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: wontgiveupyet ]</small>

#1181852 09/05/04 12:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,399
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,399
This may not help your feeling of "crudiness" but I think you did exactly the right thing in setting a boundary. And you must be so strong to be able to do that...pat yourself on the back.

You feel like crud because he tried to make you feel that way and you let him (because you want to give him the benefit of the doubt and want to believe what he says). You know you are in the correct mode here..you did a correct ACTION so try to trust that.

It is not bad that your H wants to do nice things. The problem is that he's not acted like a separated kind of guy. If y'all get divorced, he's going to have to face life like this. And the bigger problem yet is that he is, as you said, sending mixed signals. This is almost worse than saying "yes, I'm committed" or "yes, I want a divorce". You want to have hope..and the mixed signals send you off balance to where your judgement is skewed and you don't know if your hopefulness is based on reality or not. I am sure your H cannot understand this..but wanted to let you know that maybe *someone* does and it's not an unjustified feeling.

I'm so glad that you did not just say that you wanted to move on. Yes, you said it and that's the thing your husband chose to focus on (he didn't have to focus on that, but he did..because of his whole mixed signal thing). But you also said that he's just sending mixed signals and that it's too much for you. It sounded like you did it in a non-judgemental, respectful way...so kudos for you.

Keep being strong..I think you did exactly the right thing!! Maybe if this comes up again, you can try to negotiate it with him? There's been some good posts abotu one-sided POJA.

#1181853 09/05/04 01:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 339
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 339
Hang in there. Sounds like you did exactly the right thing to me. Boundaries should be set to keep you from becoming a doormat. You are not a doormat but a loving, and commited spouse and parent.

I feel the same way too everytime even though I expect it. We know how they are going to react but it still hurts. One thing that has helped me is when I think of WW as a person that has lost her way and needs my help. I realize that she is ill right now and very confused. Because of this I must continue to be strong even through the times when she says hurtful things. I know inside that she is hurting worse and worse everyday and that drives me to continue on. Everyday the BS gains a little more strength and the WS slips towards the bottom of reality.

C.

#1181854 09/05/04 01:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17,837
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17,837
Hi,

Maddy & Shmaley both gave you some good info. You did right by sticking to your boundaries. As they said, the WS is trying to make you feel like crap. But he can only succeed if you allow him to do so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I told him that it hurts me too much to have him keep coming and going, that I needed to get on with my life. He said, Oh, okay you want to move on!

He said, you know, I was just trying to be nice and remain a part of S's life. I don't know what you've been telling everyone, probably that I'm the bad guy and I'm just trying to be nice!! And I don't want S to think I'm the bad guy either. Then he said fine whatever you want! I'll stop doing nice things and I'll knock if I come by! Then he stormed off.

Now I feel like crap. I took one look at those uneaten donuts tonight and broke into tears. I know I did the right thing, so why do I feel so bad? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is not being a good father while having any A so the donuts and the truck washing is something anyone can do. Tell him that. Then remind him that he said 'whatever you want'. Did he mean that? If so, tell him what you want and he s/b happy with it. Then let him know that knocking is appreciated but if he is going to have an attitude, it c/b taken to the next level....it is all up to how he displays his attitude.

See you want him to feel the consquences of his actions.

U w/b fine. I gather being a 'meany' isn't your cup of tea but being honest and respect is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The WS as a rule don't like when the BS is honest and the last thing they want t/d is give the BS respect.

L.

#1181855 09/05/04 06:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
plan b
plan b
plan b

plan b

let go of being involved in his chaos...

let him experience the reality of his choices.

you have plan a well and enough
plan b
plan b
plan b

easy?
nope
not at all

what are YOUR options
continued exposure to chaos and drama
continue pawn in his attempts to appease his own pian by bringing donuts

continue to be used to pacify and appease his actions/choices..

plan b my friend

set yourself free....

It is the chains that he himself has forged that he is wearing...
remove yourself from that...

ARK

#1181856 09/05/04 07:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,607
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,607
won't give up YET: (good for you!)

Sorry your H is manipulating your feelings for his own gain.
Always hate to see that happen.

Please keep in mind that all the "nice" things your H is doing is to make HIM "feel" better. It is just a way for him to control his own GUILT.
In his warped mind, [when he feels bad] he comes over washes the car, mows the grass, whatever...........it balances the scales (to him) and he feels better.

Many WS do this at all points of the A.
When a BS doesn't even know about the A...it usually happens more like this:
The WS is mean or distant, then they go and SEE the OP.
But when they come back home to family and BS they get a twinge of guilt.....so for the next few days they are "extra" nice or considerate to the BS....to Make it up to them . (Crazy huh?...as the BS has NO IDEA of the how's and why's to all the constant mood changes).

It just further illustrates the selfishness of WS's. They are giving the BS a total wrong picture and idea of what is going on.
And sadly since the BS doesn't understand, they end of blaming themselves for their spouses "bad mood".

As for you now:
Your H actions are also a way to continue to keep you uncertain and off balance.
Why would he do it?
To keep as much Control of the situation as possible.

Never forget that during an A (while BS is in the dark) the WS has ALL the power and control in the relationship. They manipulate any and all circumstances to their advantage.

However, now that you Know he isn't as ALL powerful as he once felt.
Guess what?
He liked the other way better and will do as much as he can to retain as much Control as you let him.

Remember he is USED to getting his way....for quite a while now.
IN many ways he is acting like a child would now.
You set a limit and he has to test it. (Just to see if you'll stick by your convictions).
Or will you give in and cave to his "demands".

He doesn't like your boundaries (of course not) .
SO, he fights back and does his best to make your own boundaries as UNCOMFORTABLE for YOU as possible.

Don't forget that you've been married to this man, and he KNOWS how to push your buttons. He knows how to get to you in the quickest and most efficient ways.
Like a child he is going to resist and push back against ANY new boundaries.
(He doesn't like them....he likes getting his own way).
And since he has been conditioned for a long time now too getting his way, its going to take time to set limits on him.

Your going to push...he's going to push back harder.
Basically he's going to keep raising the anti, until he thinks you'll break and give into him.

Hey, he's got history on his side. He's seen you give in plenty of times before. So he's thinking "She will again".
Honestly, how many times have you not given into fear or indecision and stuck 100% to what is best for you?? I don't know...but I'll bet you've caved in more then stuck to your guns.

The key is too only SAY what you REALLY mean and will stick by.
Waffling or going back on what you say....will only make this problem worse.
The onus is on you to PROVE you'll stick by what you say to him. No matter what.

As a result be mindful of what you say or threaten when you get emotional.
Don't say something in anger or hurt that when you calm down and fell better you will back track on and say "Oh, never mind.. That's OK".
Don't do this, as this shows him that he can manipulate you through your emotions.

Say only What YOU Mean....and then make sure to stick to it.
Better one or 2 rules you will stand up For......then a 100 that when push comes to shove...YOU Won't!

With that said, I'm not attacking you (hope I didn't come across that way).
I just want to perhaps get you too see that what your experiencing is normal....and that its the Way in which YOU handle it that determines how its going to play out.
YOU have the power now (however, power does us no good if we don't realize we have it). Its very easy to give our power away.

Indeed, they ALL get angry, then threaten and bluster when they can't get their way and control the situation.
But you do have to stand up for yourself and your rights at some time. Suffering in silence (in some vain hope that this is what will make him see the light) is not the way to go.

If your uncomfortable with ANY part of your relationship, its OK to express that too him.
As long as its done using "I" words and you remain calm and do your best not to LB on him in your explanations.

This is why he tries to push you into LBing and fighting with him.
If he gets you into an argument, then he can dismiss "whatever" it was you were attempting to get across.

You did nothing wrong IMO.
You are allowed to have boundaries and limits in your life.
Your goal now is to NOT permit his outbursts to still control your feelings to this extent.
Yes, you don't have too....but if you don't this process is going to be go on a lot longer and be much more difficult on you.

Wishing you success. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
later

#1181857 09/05/04 09:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Boundaries are no substitute for Plan B.

A perfect opportunity is being missed by not going into Plan B now. It should be done now, while he is still attached to his home. It should be done before he becomes accustomed to living on his own. Waiting will only diminish it's impact; nor is there any reason whatsoever to wait another day.

Another opportunity moving further, further, further away as every minute passes......

#1181858 09/06/04 04:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 817
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 817
Setting boundaries can feel uncomfortable because its something new you are doing. You are learning a new behaviour. It takes time, but eventually it becomes automatic and you will surprise yourself. Keep working on it and don't be phased if you go backwards - it happens and you will feed like crud whatever you do... but it does pass and things do get better...

Your WS is trying to manipulate you with being 'nice' instead of doing the right thing. He;s trying to turn it back on you and make himself feel better because he knows he's doing the wrong thing. All you have to do is be aware of this and keep doing what you are.

#1181859 09/06/04 09:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
N
nid Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
Thank you everyone for your replies. Ark, I've always wanted a reply from you! Thanks. All of your replies made a lot of sense to me. I am doing well, but I worry about my S constantly.

Yes, I am going to give him the plan B letter. It is ready and waiting.

S and I went out of town for a couple days to the lake with some friends...H had originally been invited, but seeing as we are no longer together, our friends extended the invitation to only me and S. We had a blast...S with 3 of his friends and me with two couples...a little awkward, but I enjoyed myself. It is sometimes hard for me to see other couples so happy...I am happy for them, but it makes me sad for me.

Anyway, I had to obviously let H know of S's whereabouts and he offered to care for the pets while we were gone. I think he may have slept at the house, but he was no longer there when we returned. I had S call him once while we were gone just so he could talk to him, but I did not speak to him, nor did he ask S about me....he is playing it cool now...my request for boundaries apparently is of no concern to him anymore. I spoke to him briefly when we returned to find out how pets did, he was distant so I let him talk to S about his trip.

I need to ask him to take S to swimming tomorrow night while I go to my prayer and life workshop, so I guess I can give Plan B letter to him then...

Having a child makes this Plan B thing difficult...how do I communicate things about my S with him? Is email okay as long as there is no R talk, just necessary info??? Or do I ask S to communicate with him for me? Isn't that a bit of a burden to ask of a 10 year old??

#1181860 09/06/04 09:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Nid, I'm glad you had a nice weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

About contact, I would leave all communication between S and him. Email contact is still contact and will defeat the entire purpose of going dark. Ask him to contact you in emergencies ONLY, all arrangements can be made through son. If he has to pick up son, he can park out front and son will come out to him.

You can pretty much expect him to do everything and anything to test you and get you to break NC, so please be prepared for that. He will be testing your resolve and will try to get you back on his string. He won't like Plan B at all!

#1181861 09/06/04 10:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
N
nid Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
Okay Melody....I am ready for this. S knows I am going to do this and I think his young mind understands as best he can as to why I need to do this. I have explained it to him and that I am doing it in an effort to save our M, not because I want to be mean to his dad. I hope it is not too hard for him. Oh, sometimes it makes me so MAD that my S has to go through all this s@#$!!! Anyone and everyone, please pray for my precious boy to come through this okay. I do know that he is seeing a strong and happy mother right now, that has to be good, right?

#1181862 09/07/04 09:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 421
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 421
I just wanted to send a message of support and wish you luck, Wontgiveupyet. I am in plan B and although it has been hard for a moment or two, in many ways it has been easier than Plan A because it is a relief from the constant tension and pain. It has been a time for me as it will be a time for you and your son...and that is VERY Important.

I also wanted to let you know that I benefitted from your post. I think you did great by setting the boundary. I will pattern my own message based on your response because I think you did so well. I can understand how I/you would feel like "crud" because we actually have a conscience about how our behavior effects others and WH's addiction keeps them from having awareness or sensitivity about how their action effect anyone other than themselves. As BS's, esp. in Plan B, it is all about our protection and you cannot have someone coming and going in your life as they please. It causes too much pain so good for you in protecting yourself.

God bless you and your son in this passage. It is a step in a long journey and may HE watch over us as we travel this path.

#1181863 09/07/04 09:13 AM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,088
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,088
Good morning!

Nid, your son will come through Plan B better than he would come through witnessing his dad get away with having an A and manipulating his mom at every turn for his own gain.

Your son learns from you here what is and isn't acceptable behavior for a "married" spouse, whether it is "married" just on paper or not. He learns from you that a woman should be strong enough emotionally to refuse to be disrespected in her marriage by a selfish spouse. Really nid, he'll learn some very good beneficial lessons from all this and my examples here are just a mere sampling!

#1181864 09/07/04 09:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
Hi Nid - please refresh my memory - my oldstimers disease again:

What have you done legally? What are you planning to do legally? - specifically regarding your son's custody?

Your son is your ace in the hole. I don't mean this to suggest you should use your son overtly as leverage. But nothing changes in affairs until consequences of affair decisions are felt. One consequence of your H's is that he will no longer have ready access to your son. Oh well.

I agree that his "nice" actions are driven by his attempt to feel better about himself. Your appropriate admonition of him takes away this "outlet" and he predictably reacts as an adolescent being told their idealistic view of the world isn't so.

WAT

<small>[ September 07, 2004, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

#1181865 09/07/04 05:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
N
nid Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
Hey WAT, I have done nothing legal yet, because there is no legal separation in Texas. If I go ahead and file for D, then legal actions can be taken regarding finances and S. What I have done is list all the bills we have and who will pay for what (he will pay for most)and he has signed it. We also verbally agreed that S will live with me, no overnights at his apt. H is free to take him out as often as he reasonably likes (with regard to schoolwork, etc.), but s will be returned to his home afterward. I was adamant about my S not having two homes.

I have considered putting the custody thing in writing too, but haven't done so yet.

H sees S every weekday morning since he takes him to school (I have to leave too early). Should I make other arrangements here as well? That seems a little harsh. I know he is already missing him terribly.

H had to come over tonight to take S to swimming. I am about to go to my prayer workshop. When he got here, S and I were not home...we had gone running. H asked me if I wanted the key to the house since I am not "comfortable" with him coming in. I said it didn't matter. I plan on changing the locks anyway. He was totally dry, unemotional, cold, detached, you name it. I don't think he could have cared a less to see me. I'm beginning to think he won't even care when I give him the plan B letter. Who knows?

#1181866 09/07/04 06:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wontgiveupyet:
<strong>

H sees S every weekday morning since he takes him to school (I have to leave too early). Should I make other arrangements here as well? That seems a little harsh. I know he is already missing him terribly.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is good, he needs to be missing him and get a glimpse of the reality of walking away from his family. I would let him continue to pick up S in the morning if he can do it without entering your home. I wouldn't do it unless he agrees to not come in your house.

#1181867 09/08/04 09:30 AM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,088
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,088
My H would come by every morning to help get the kids to school when we were seperated. We had 3 kids in 3 different schools. I even let him iron their clothes and I went out the door first with the earliest one so there was minimal contact between us.

It can work.

#1181868 09/08/04 10:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
N
nid Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
N
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 505
H and I had it out last night. I don't feel like retelling the whole thing, but suffice it to say that he tore me down (made me feel our whole problems are due to my A 6 years ago). He was cruel and almost violent. I cowered in a corner and cried. I am so tired of being smashed to smithereens for a mistake so long ago. After a while, H felt bad and apologized. He said he just can't get over it...he doesn't think he ever can...doesn't think we have any hope. He said he hasn't and isn't talking to OW, but that he can't say he won't. He said if I want to file for D, he is fine with that...he said he doesn't blame me if I do. He said he was sorry for everything he has done to me...sorry for falling in love with OW. He held me and I sobbed like a baby.

Afterwards, I gave my H the letter. He said he understood why I wanted to do it (no contact with him), but that he didn't think it was very practical because of S.

He also apologized for the night before(when I set my boundaries and he got upset) and said he overreacted and said things he shouldn't have.

I wish I hadn't cried...his words just hurt me so much...that's why I know Plan B would be good for me. But he won't do it so what do I do?

Then today he came by...we talked about various things. Then before he left, he told me that he had talked to OW last week. He said it was about one of them stepping down from the board. He said it would most likely be her. I simply said, "Okay, thanks for telling me."

What do I do???? A part of me wants to just quit trying to save this M, just be kind to him and let him go, and get on with my life. I'm tired of this battle....

#1181869 09/09/04 01:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Nid, I don't understand what the problem is. Why are you talking to him if you are in Plan B? Why is he in the house? You don't need his permission to go into Plan B. If you gave him the letter, then go into Plan B. Just because he comes over doesn't mean you break your Plan B.

Get the locks changed and move forward. Don't answer his calls. If he comes to the door ask if he has ended his affair. If not, refer him to your Plan B letter, ask him to respect your wishes, and close the door. He will get the message if you sound like a broken record.

Of course he won't like Plan B, no WS does. He will do everything in his power to break it. But his approval is not required here.

Take charge of your own life, Nid. It's not the time to go wishy washy, it's time to go into Plan B.

<small>[ September 09, 2004, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

#1181870 09/09/04 05:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wontgiveupyet:
<strong>Afterwards, I gave my H the letter. He said he understood why I wanted to do it (no contact with him), but that he didn't think it was very practical because of S.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OF COURSE it's not practical because of your son!! It wasn't practical for your son for your husband to leave!!!

Nid, you have got to start standing up to him.

You may have set the record for ther shortest Plan B ever. Now take a stand, tell him that your letter defines your position, and change the locks. No more communication about your marriage, the OW, nothing - except absolutely necessary communication about your son.

When he attempts to turn the table on you by claiming this regimen won't work becasue of your son, keep thinking that it was HIS decision to leave.

Regarding your past affair, he's just using this as a convenient excuse to defend his own affair. How hypocritical.

WAT

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 31 guests, and 52 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Overcomer4513, caraduke, Convict20, GTNY, Avianna
71,737 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,811
Members71,737
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5