This is bizzare. Based on our agreed schedule for his move out which includes time to settle finances, give kids a week notice etc, we also agreed that as much as his seeing OW bothers me,I can't stop him. So I asked that we make one rule, that he be home with me and the kids every evening. This means he can see her at lunch everyday, and I look the other way. If he can leave work early and meet her for drinks and still be home on time, I won't ask questions.

Remember, we are planning to split up Nov. 1, and he is traveling 4 weeks during that period.
We have 3 nights left this week, then a week and a half later in October. Then he moves out.

H had a happy hour date with OW last Friday, causing him to be late to pick up our daughter (older brother did it) and an hour later than planned. The extra hour spent at home waiting was torture for me, as it always is, but H doesn't understand why, since we have decided to split up anyway.

Last night he asked me if I would give him permission to have a date with OW one night this week. Have drinks, go to dinner etc. He asked if I could lighten up on his "curfew" of being home right after work. I just about died. when I tried to explain how hard this would be on me, to know they were out together while I waited at home, he said it was ridiculous under the cirmcumstances. I told him that it hurts, because I love him, it hurts to know he is with OW. He just doesn't seem to get it, and doesn't understand why he can't come and go as he pleases with her, (even tho she is sneaking out on her H).

Things got more and more hostile. I said that I am trying to be cooperative, trying to bend, looking the other way, but it still hurts! If I say go ahead and be with her, I am not only allowing behaviour that is going to cause me more pain, but feeling like I have totally crossed my own boundaries of self worth and dignity. If I say no, H says he will "go on a bike ride" and see her anyway, behind my back.
He can't seem to see why I want him to stay away from her during our last days as a family together.

Things are deteriorating badly. I finally lost it and said "why don't you go ahead and see her EVERY night this week" if you want to, but stay in a hotel and find a place to move to." This of course, means we would have to explain something to our kids that might be more traumatic than what we had planned to do as thoughtfully and best timing etc. I also said maybe its time for her H to know whats going on.
H said that was none of my business

We finally went to bed with H softening up a bit and acting like he actually had some empathy for my feelings. He said he would either take option A (leave so that he can see her whenever) or stay home with us 3 more nights. In 6 weeks, he will be free to sneak around with her every night of the week if he wants, I just asked him to respect our marriage and my feelings for the few remaining nights he will be in our house.
Is this unreasonable? Should I just let him go, suck it up and suffer through? I am really torn here - talk about a rock and a hard place!
Let him go and feel terrible, or ask him not to go and see how sullen and resentful he will act, probably try to sneak away anyway (bike ride, Gym, some other excuse. I can't force him to WANT to be with me/US more that OW, and I don't want him to stay against his will, but to just say "go ahead" do what you want, is too much for my emotional stability right now.

We agreed we would respect the last days of our marriage and not let things get ugly or hurtful. But H cannot stand to be away from OW, even if he can see her during the day. Of course, deep down I am still hoping he will change his mind, but trying to keep him at home when he wants to be with her is not going to do me any good either. Too bad this affects our kids or I would gladly help him out the door.

I am thinking of a compromise - our daughters soccer practice ends at 7:30pm. If I take her to practice and ask my H to pick her up, he will have a 2 1/2 hour window of time to see OW if he simply must. Since he'll be picking up our daughter, I know he'll make it home by 8pm.
What I simply cannot take is his being out and having no idea when he will stroll in - drives me crazy, the worst torment I know from this and his previous A. Should I make this offer, or just stick my ground and see what he does?

You'd think that just dealing with all the emotions of the reality of our upcoming split up would be enough of an issue, to put the smaller issues of him getting to see her whenever he wants to, on the back burner. He's like a little boy whose mother won't let him go out and play, even though in a few weeks she'll be gone and he can do whatever he pleases.

I'm sad and frustrated. Any advice?

Advise, yes. Expose to OW's H right now.

Everhopeful,

I would suggest to you that your "agreed schedule" is not going to be mentally healthy for you to stick with.

I also suggest an immediate PlanB with him needing to leave NOW. The blatant disrespect with the continuing contact ...asking you for "permission" to see the OW...and your comments about looking the other way when he sees her makes me *think* that you are getting a bit foggy yourself.

You are ok with sharing him to the point that you set rules that make it possible for him to see her?? What's up with that? Do you want to save your marriage?

His dalliances with her make him unreliable as a parent...he isn't tending to his kids as he should and you want to make it a bit more convenient for him to see her?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

That harms your children. Going into a PlanB is not going to harm them anymore than they are already. He is not a parent right now...nor can he be when another part of his body is leading him around.

I wouldn't wait...I really wouldn't.

But, that's just my humble opinion.

committed

This means he can see her at lunch everyday, and I look the other way.
Wow, that's really nice of you.
Why separate if it's okay for him to visit the ow?

Say what you mean, mean what you say.

Everhopeful,

Your post confuses the heck out of me. What is going on???? You cannot continue to play "happy house" for another three days/nights. Your WH is loosing more respect for you day by day and you are letting him walk all over you and disrespect you. I understand that you are clinging on every inch of hope, but you are hurting yourself more than anything. Right now, you need to gain strength, especially since you seem to be the only ADULT in your children's life. Your WH is acting like a little boy.

I think that you should go to Plan B immediately and expose the A to OW's H. Tell your WH to pack his stuff and get out.

Plan B is about protecting YOU and your feelings for your marriage and your husband. That is if you even want this marriage anymore...

I do feel for you. Please do not continue to let him walk all over you. This is not going to help your marriage and he is loosing respect for you, the more you let this go on. Why??? You are a strong woman. Do not let either one of them put you down. I don't care what they say. It doesn't matter if she is 20 or 50 years younger than you are. You are not in a competition with this woman. Read Octobergirl's post again. She is very wise. There is nothing wrong with YOU, but everything with THEM.

You need to protect yourself from this nonsense and chaos. Your children need you and they need a calm and strong adult in their lives. They will thank you for it later. You owe it to them. Let him go...

Kati

Originally posted by Everhopeful:


Things got more and more hostile.

hmmmmm I wonder if "more and more hostile" actually means that the conversation became more and more honest and uncomfortable ???


I also said maybe its time for her H to know whats going on.
H said that was none of my business

EXPOSE!

Your H just told you that your own life is none of your business.

This is manipulative fear-based misinformation from H to you, and, it is simply not true. This IS your business. Another man's wife is NOT your H's business! Let's be real.

EXPOSE!

We finally went to bed with H softening up a bit and acting like he actually had some empathy for my feelings.

This softening up was for his benifit NOT yours , make NO mistake about that! It was to reassure himself that he is NOT the bad guy leaving his wife and kids for another woman.... he wants to break up his marriage (and date another man's wife) and feel GOOD about himself...... but, that is "none of your business".... yeah, right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

In 6 weeks, he will be free to sneak around with her every night of the week if he wants, I just asked him to respect our marriage and my feelings for the few remaining nights he will be in our house.
Is this unreasonable? Should I just let him go, suck it up and suffer through?

You're kidding, right?

You are asking him to pretend to respect the marriage!

Let's be real here.... he does NOT respect your marriage, he does not respect OW's marriage, or any marriage for that matter. You are asking him to play act the respect with you as a show for the kids. To see his OW on a schedule that permits HIM to feel less guilty, and for you to pretend in front of the kids that their family is not planning to fall apart in 6 weeks.

A STRONG dose of reality is necessary, for both of you.

You can learn how to be REAL and be HONEST without becoming hysterical and disrespectful.... and I hope you learn how to do that soon.

Being nice and "sucking it up" while your life is being pulled out from under you is NOT showing an ounce of respect for your marriage!

EXPOSE the affair to OW's husband. And to everyone else who will care enough to think this affair is wrong.

Advise your H that any contact with OW hurts you and the family and tell him you have decided to stop pretending this is OK .

This is a fight.... and you are surrendering too soon .... too scared to fire your most valuable weapons. Honesty and truth.... fire these weapons with all the love in your heart.

Love is a battlefield.

Pep

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Everhopeful,

I know you want to spare your kids any pain for the upcoming separation and possible D. But, what about your pain?

Do you think that you are trying to 'over plan' or 'over protect' your children's mental health but destroying your own?

You've let your H call all the shots. He decided this, he decided that...he decided he would stay in your M until 11/1 but now can't do it without seeing OW?

I think he's manipulating you and using your concern for your children to get away with having an A right in front of you.

Expose the A right now! Have him move out.

Protect yourself and your kids. Your H is showing you, and proving to you, that he cares about only himself!!!

You've been more than accomodating during your H's selfishness and MLC thing that's going on.

((((Everhopeful))))

You sound so strong. You sound like a logical, organized individual. You sound like you are process-oriented.

I just don't think the hurtful position you find yourself in can be understood, organized, fit into a process...at least not perfectly.

Notice how this entire separation thing by your H started off as possible MLC, then he wanted to search for another partner, wanted to have sex with whomever, whenever he wanted...right back to a relationship with the OW. He's having an A!!! He just feels justified somehow that it's okay because he's telling you about it.

IMHO

Please take care of yourself.

sss

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Everhopeful:
[QB]


I also said maybe its time for her H to know whats going on.
H said that was none of my business


It IS your business because it is affecting YOUR family and YOUR marriage. Expose to OW's H - NOW, TODAY!!!

I just asked him to respect our marriage and my feelings for the few remaining nights he will be in our house.

He hasn't respected your marriage in a long time...



We agreed we would respect the last days of our marriage and not let things get ugly or hurtful.

AGAIN, he stopped respecting your marriage when he first got involved with OW. Things are ALREADY ugly and hurtful.

He asked if I could lighten up on his "curfew" of being home right after work.

He's like a little boy whose mother won't let him go out and play, even though in a few weeks she'll be gone and he can do whatever he pleases.

Then STOP acting like his mother. Act like his wife, and tell him to pack his stuff and get out because YOU will not allow yourself to be treated this way. Maybe that is what he wants to hear, Everhopeful... I'm sure OW tells him exactly what she wants from him. Don't be his Mom, be his wife!

Kati

Ah yes.... these were the replies I expected, and probably need to hear. My bottom line has always been the kids. Read 3 books, been to 2 counselors and a child psychologist. Give the kids at least a weeks notice, have both parents tell them without placing blame, try to minimize the trauma as much as possible.

Yes, I did tell H that he should go ahead and go out with her every night this week, but to get a hotel room and plan on moving out as soon as he gets back from his 3 week trip. Is this scenario best for the kids? No way. Is it better that he sees OW a couple of hours before he leaves for this 3 week trip, and then we proceed with the civilized plan of telling the kids when he returns, give them a week to assimilate the news, and he moves out. Believe me, I have analyzed this up and down, and am determined to do this to minimize the trauma to them. If it were just me,
H would have been out on his ear a long time ago, and believe me, I have no more illusions about this marriage being saved - it was over when he made the decision to leave. And frankly, I have had enough, I am looking forward to him leaving, looking forward towards his making his big move and heading down the road with OW. I do not want to spend another night wondering where he is and when he will get home.

I'm sure everyone will think I am craz, but I made him an offer this morning. Go out with her tonite after work, and then pick up our daughter at 7:30 at the end of soccer practice. Be home and stay home after that and for the next 2 nights before he leaves. I guess I feel like I am calling the shots rather than him telling me what he is doing, or wants to do. Twisted, I guess. If he can't play by this rule, don't bother to come home at all.

H thinks he is going to settle down and live happily ever after with OW after he moves out.
He wants to spend some time with her before this 3 week trip. Blah blah blah. In his self centered, misguided and foggy brain, this all makes sense. He thinks he is taking the high road by "asking permission" instead of running off with her and being missing in action. Yes, the man is deluded and I know it. I just want to get this over with as much grace and dignity as possible without letting things get ugly.

Even though I am losing more and more love and respect for him day by day, I still feel sorry for him. If I say it is OK and control the hours of this "date", does this empower me under the circumstances or make me a fool. He has already made his decision to leave me and the kids, he is already gone emotionally, even though we are "nice" to each other. Whats the point of making things really ugly between us, when we are already in agreement that our marriage is over?

Well, now I feel sheepish and a bit of a pansy for even making him any kind of an offer. But I don't want him hanging around the house for 3 nights acting resentful and distant - this would be worse for the kids than the situation I am proposing where they will not even know that he is gone. 3 nights to go - then we start the big move out project when he returns. I will have 3 weeks with the kids alone to get them prepared for his, maybe even tell them Daddy is leaving when he returns, and then he can sit down with them on his own when he gets back. In any case, the bottom line is that I accept that this is over, I have no hope or realistic desire to save my marriage this time around. H must move out and figure out his own reality. If he changes his mind after he leaves, he will not be able to even consider returning to the marriage unless he is willing to get heavy duty counseling and prove that he is working on and resolving his issues.

But I am getting ahead of myself. I was so proud of myself last night for telling him what I did.
I think I surprised him by saying - hey - I WANT you to go, if you try to sneak out with her. My compromise this morning was wimpy, but does no harm at this point, with things gone as far as they are. I see an attorney this afternoon and I know that will help to get me even more pointed in the right direction. Each of these little incidents serve to underline how selfish and immature he is, and how I will be much better off without him, and probably the kids too. Want to keep it civil though. Proven fact is that divorce is very hard on kids, but those who survive with the least amount of trauma are those whose parents divorce as friends, as amicably and fairly as possible, without contention. Do I have to swallow a little pride to do this? In the long run, it really doesn't matter.

And yes, I am seriously thinking about talking to the OW's H while my H is gone. Just not sure about the right way to go about it. Hate that junior high school feeling of petty revenge at the expense of someone else's prefering to turn a bblind eye, which seems to be what he is doing, ffor his own reasons. But I don't know the guy, sso who knows?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm sure everyone will think I am craz, but I made him an offer this morning. Go out with her tonite after work, and then pick up our daughter at 7:30 at the end of soccer practice. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've been there and done that..and he was what?...LATE! An HOUR late...right? You cannot depend on him...don't risk the children in this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Be home and stay home after that and for the next 2 nights before he leaves. I guess I feel like I am calling the shots rather than him telling me what he is doing, or wants to do. Twisted, I guess. If he can't play by this rule, don't bother to come home at all.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like this is really gonna happen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
He is going to get mopey...sad eyed...and you are once again going to give him your BLESSING in going to her. Yes, you read the right word...BLESSING. That is what you do each and every time that you nod at his crazy request...and everytime that you come up with some type of plan that makes seeing her possible.

Why do continually give your BLESSING on this affair?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And frankly, I have had enough, I am looking forward to him leaving, looking forward towards his making his big move and heading down the road with OW. I do not want to spend another night wondering where he is and when he will get home </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you wanna talk about control...control THIS. Make this happen sooner and you can then claim CONTROL. Right now...it is ALL out of your control. He is gonna do what he's gonna do and he has your BLESSING.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If I say it is OK and control the hours of this "date", does this empower me under the circumstances or make me a fool. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At the risk of violating terms of service I am going to opt for the second option. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think I surprised him by saying - hey - I WANT you to go, if you try to sneak out with her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I don't think it was surprise. It was probably more of a fist in the air...with a big YES! I have her BLESSING and all I need to do is give her a heads up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

JMHO
committed

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

If it really IS all about the kids....you need to take back the control you have at the moment (your control is quickly disintegrating!)

Plan B (with dignity and it will be a good way to soften the blow for your children)

Don't warn your H and expose to OW's H. Do it as part of your power to be and do truthful things in your life (your H's anger at this point would be an example of your strength and integrity which he is unaware you can exercise without his approval)

Otherwise.....you are going to make yourself (body and soul) sick.

You can not keep your H from seeing OW, but you CAN control your part in this and your own future and that of your kids (they need a mom who can be strong, decisive and true)

Good luck.

Everhopeful.

You are worried about appearances. Don't. What they are doing is very ugly. The other woman's husband deserves to know what his wife is doing. His wife is screwing your husband and is set on taking him from you.

It is time you start fighting for your marriage.

Your husband and the other woman are a pair of butt holes on legs, with sacks painted with smiley faces over their respective heads. There is nothing pretty about them. There is nothing redeeming about what they are doing. It is wrong for them to be destroying TWO families.

It is time to stop pretending that the king has any clothes and face what you really are witnessing.

Please pay attention to what the people here are telling you. You simply can not afford to discount their advice at this point.

All the best,
Gimble

I just had to respond to this post!
I think that is the craziest thing I've ever heard. If he wants to be with OW then I would start plan B. He's having his cake and eating it too. He looks at this as a wonderful thing!!! He knows he can have both of you and hurt you in the process. I would put a stop to that right now!!!!!
You are giving him a chance to leave you for OW. Don't do it!!!!!

Sorry but I just had to put in my 2 cents.
Really, I hope it all works out for you.

Hi EH,

Well,it sounds as though this has been going on a while.You know,I usually make a point of researching people's backgrounds and posts to see how their situation started but I didn't with you.After giving you all that advice yesterday,it sounds like there were some key actions you have needed to do for some time but have not yet implemented.

Just based on this newest post,IMO you are WAY to accomodating.What the heck for?? You need to blow this disgusting A wide open especially to the OWH.Your WH is in classic cake mode.I would boot him out asap.Let the OW have him since that's what they are working toward.Let her try to fill all his needs.

O

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

I have a very hard time understanding your motivation for coming up with this agreement with H.

My take on this would be:
"You want to see OW, there's the door
-BUT DON'T COME BACK."

You are probably holding on to your vision of family life. You must open your eyes to reality now. If you still have feelings of love for your H, you should go to an immediate Plan B to protect your feelings and your dignity!

My heart goes out to you. Be strong!

EH,
The day he was an hour late to pick up your CHILDREN was the day to realize this plan of his staying until 11/1 might have been a good try, but it has failed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> . Read 3 books, been to 2 counselors and a child psychologist. Give the kids at least a weeks notice, have both parents tell them without placing blame, try to minimize the trauma as much as possible.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Without placing blame. I don't agree with this. He wants to leave, you don't want it, I don't think your children should be lied to by the parent that will be their rock.

I didn't lie to my kids when my H left and I don't regret that a bit. They needed someone who was there, who wasn't lying to them. I said I believed in my marriage vows.

Telling them also didn't stop our eventual reconciliation.

My H & I also tried an in-house separation, living separate lives while both parenting. It was the worst time of all our separations. I knew when he was "missing"...and I still had all the parenting responsibility that I had when we actually separated.

Plan B. Now. As you say, he's going to be gone anyway.

Yes, I did tell H that he should go ahead and go out with her every night this week
Why? This means that it is okay with you he is seeing her. You tell him to do something and then he has to pay the consequences for doing exactly what you told him to do?

and believe me, I have no more illusions about this marriage being saved - it was over when he made the decision to leave.
So no Plan B for you huh? Straight to divorce?

I'm sure everyone will think I am craz, but I made him an offer this morning. Go out with her tonite after work, and then pick up our daughter at 7:30 at the end of soccer practice. Be home and stay home after that and for the next 2 nights before he leaves. I guess I feel like I am calling the shots rather than him telling me what he is doing, or wants to do. Twisted, I guess. If he can't play by this rule, don't bother to come home at all.
So he can continue to see her and stay married as long as he picks up daughter and is home by 7:;30.
Are you okay with an open marriage like this?

And yes, I am seriously thinking about talking to the OW's H while my H is gone.
Why wait? You should talk with him now. What he chooses to do with the information is up to him but he needs to know the facts.

Everhopeful

Hope your appointment with your lawyer went well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just want to get this over with as much grace and dignity as possible without letting things get ugly.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand what you want but does your H? I don't think your H is treating you with any grace, dignity or respect.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Proven fact is that divorce is very hard on kids, but those who survive with the least amount of trauma are those whose parents divorce as friends, as amicably and fairly as possible, without contention. Do I have to swallow a little pride to do this? In the long run, it really doesn't matter.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree that parting on a friendly basis helps kids deal with divorce. When I decided to D my XH (he didn't want a D), we sat down and told our kids together. They cried. They wanted to know who they were going to live with. They wanted to know why the D. We answered all of their questions and told them we both loved them. Although my XH was angry, did not want a D, we managed to remain friends and get along for our kids. If my kids even whispered that they missed their Dad and wanted to see him, I made arrangements for them to spend time with him (in addition to visitation schedule).

I have happy, healthy, honor-roll kids today.

I believe in keeping it from getting ugly as much as you possibly can. But your H is the one making it ugly with his lack of respect for you and his A right in your face. It seems like you are protecting your H...so your kids don't find out about the ugly things going on. Why is that your responsibility? Doesn't your H need to own his own behavior?

I really wish the best for you. I really do.

Take care.

sss

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

I want to clarify that I do believe the parents should work together and co-operate for the good of the children during separation and divorce.

I just don't believe that the parent who does not want the separation/divorce should lie. In a child's mind, if a simple agreement is enough to break a family...that also sets up trauma, what if you agree the child is out next?

However, you don't have to go into the reasons, ie infidelity.

It's very difficult to be the custodial parent who is there to answer the "why" questions:
why isn't dad home?
why can't dad live here?
why did dad leave?
why can't I live with dad?

Answering "because mommy & daddy agree they can't live together" might make you come apart at the seams when it isn't the truth and you have to say it night after night.

Whatever you decide, know the questions will be yours to answer, because he won't be there.

"butt hole on legs" ----I like that! Now why would I want to fight for a marriage with a butt hole on legs!

I just told my H that it is totally ridiculous that the 2 of them can't cool it for 3 measly days, since they are planning to be together for the rest of their lives. He agreed and said "kind of pathetic, isn't it? I guess we are really immature". Thats what they thrive on, that they ARE admittedly too lost and confused souls with only their own desires in mind, regardless of what kind of integrity it demonstrates.

So I told my H that I was going out tonite (with a girl friend) and would be home when he returns with our daughter. I also told him that it is too bad he is traveling the next 3 weeks, because as far as I am concerned, I want this over sooner than later, and Nov. 1st wasn't going to work for me. We have a prepaid weekend with the kids in NY that we will still take during his travel. I told him we either tell them before he leaves this week, while we are in NY, or as soon as he gets back and he leaves as soon as possible in October. All this was said very calmly and received very calmly and he agreed to everything.

So I will run all this past the attorney this afternoon. I know I should be fighting for my marriage, but I don't think I really want to anymore, because I have lost so much respect for him as a person, not to mention a husband. Too bad my kids love him so much, but they are not dumb and have seen dad missing in action one to many times to not realize that things are not right. Again, the only way this is salvagable at this point is if a)he gets hit by a bolt of lightening and has an epiphany or b)continues on his desired path with OW and proves to himself once and for all what he wants. If he still wants his wife and kids, he will have to prove it by dealing with his issues. But somehow I don't see that happening, nor am I sure that I would want to take another chance on him.

I will make one more appointment with Steve Harley - what the heck? Thanks again for all the support thus far - I will keep posting in case I have another emotional set back, but right now I must say I do feel strong and up to the task at hand.