Good Post Mel - but then, yours always are.

SVB, we care a lot about what happens to you, and we worry - you can see it in these posts.

Let us know how you are.

SS

Hello. Here is an update on my situation.

I've talked to my H practically every day since I've re-established contact with him. On Wednesday he called (stated he didn't have much time) to find out what I did about the flight. Did I reserve it? And if so, what are the exact flight numbers and times. He said he had to call his friend who was asking.

Thursday I called him to let him know that the car was REALLY acting up. I took it to our reliable mechanic who told me to take it straight to a transmission shop. H was in a horrible mood when I called. He was eating. He was upset that the shop couldn't give us an immediate quote. I couldn't tell if he was mad at me, mad about the situation, or just cranky in general.

I talked to him again Friday and Saturday. He called Friday morning at work to get an update on the car. Saturday morning he called again to get an update on the car. Then he called me in the afternoon. First he left me a message, because I was outside taking out the garbage and watering the flowers. Then he called me back later (I didn't notice he left me a message) He called to ask me to check and see if I could look online and reserve a car for him in Florida - a Jeep Wrangler, if possible, and he asked me to listen to the message. In the message he asked me to look for our inflatable bed and set it aside for him to take. (I won't see him before he leaves for Florida.) He also asked to me take out the sheets that go with it and wash them and set them aside with the bed.

What bothers me is that throughout this whole week, NOT ONCE has he asked me how I am. How are you? What are you doing? How is work going? How is your class? NADA. The only thing that he told me is that he doesn't want me to walk or to take the bus to go anywhere. If I need to go somewhere, I should call a taxi.

I think you guys are right. Nothing has changed. I don't think he cares about me at all. Everything is all about him. I think I am starting to get angry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> again.

Now in response to your posts,

MelodyLane, SS is right, that was a great reply.

Right now your emotions are wounded and are desperately looking for a salve. Even if its a salve that is really poison just because it eases your pain for the moment.

I think that's what I got when he told me he wants to work on our M. My heart really wanted to believe it. I felt better than I felt in a long time.

You are here because Plan A did not end this emotional impasse in your marriage. Going backwards to Plan A is a little like insanity, doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results. Plan A did not end it in the past and it won't end it in the future.

Further, I am afraid that if you do allow him to come home, that you will be right where you were before, except now you will have no leverage with which to work.

I think that if he comes home, and I see that nothing has changed at all, I will be giving up on both plan A and plan B. I will be leaving and not looking back. I am not sure at this point if plan A and plan B can work on this man.

I get the sense that he is not interested at all in this marriage, after all, he hasn't lifted a finger to save it. He seems indifferent. And this makes me feel that he will "consider" coming home only for his convenience, not to work on his marriage, *IF* you agree to shut up about it and not annoy him.

Yeah, this is what I am afraid of. Unfortunately, I haven't really seen much of a change in his attitude since we've started talking again. Our resumed contact so far has only been beneficial to him. I am reserving his flight, car, etc. If I had stayed dark, I could have taken care of the car without his grief being involved. I would also not have had to worry about making his plans (that don't include me), I still would have been worrying only about ME.

SS,

Dreams often mirror our hopes, or our fears.
What do you think about your dreams?

I think my dreams are definitely a mirror of my fears. I think that it is a way for my head to remind me of all of the grief that my H has caused me.

I had another one recently about jellybeans. Yes, jellybeans.

I saw my H eating jellybeans, and I wondered where he got them from. I searched around the house and I found that he had a stash of them that he was purposely hiding from me. We're talking bags of jellybeans stacked about 4 feet high. I further found out that his niece was sending them to him and they both swore that I should not find out about it.

These dreams are all about his lies, secrets, and separate life from me.

I have one request as a personal favor. I hope you will do this for me. I request you read your mother the quote about when D is justified, and ask her if she thinks you are to that point.

I talked to my mother at length about this. I read her the quote. She said, "exactly." She basically said that if I always have to be careful around him - if I have to suppress myself and constantly try to please him and not to get him upset for any reason, then I am not living.

She helped me realize something, too. At one point when my H's niece and nephews were visiting over the holidays, they asked me if I ever get angry (about anything that my H does). My H was at work at the time. I said, "not often." Well, I told my mother about this a long time ago. Boy she remembers EVERYTHING. I think that I used to get angry more towards the beginning of the relationship. But as time went by, I found that every time I would get angry at him, he would turn it around and get triply angry with me. He would make it all about me. He would then be upset (and not speaking to me for weeks sometimes) until I apologize. I think maybe I've been trained not to get angry at him and think that it's my fault. Anyway, that was my realization yesterday.

She gave me another earful, BTW.

She basically said that it comes down to me being happy. She doesn't see that I can be happy with him.

So what am I going to do? First, I am going to call the Harleys tomorrow and make an appointment, hopefully for this week.

I am still leaning towards letting him come home next Monday (Nov 1). If things don't work out as I hope, I will leave.

<small>[ October 24, 2004, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

svb -

Sometimes the people here cannot save us from ourselves. I was in denial and grasping at straws. Mel and others kept me from taking my WH back, and I am so thankful.

If a WS is serious about coming back, they are going to put a lot of effort into it. Your WH and mine just are not that interested.

If you take him back, you are not treating yourself like you deserve to be treated.

Believer,

You're right. My H isn't putting any effort into us at all.

You know, I just got off the computer recently, and he called. He said, "somebody's been on the computer all day."

Why did he call me all day? To see #1 if I found and washed the sheets yet. And #2 if I've found out about the rental car. If I can't get a Jeep Wrangler, he wants a Mustang convertible. Yeah, it sounds like he's going to work really hard this weekend helping his friend move(the reason he said that I shouldn't go).

All he's got on his mind is himself.

BTW, believer, you have been my inspiration in plan B. (well, up until I contacted my H anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) I'm still trying to keep busy, though.

You need to hold out for what you need. Your WH is just like mine, doesn't care enough. I have been going through this for a long time.
Finally figured out that I will be just fine without my WH.

Ami oh.. le monde est ma maison, et le bonheur ma loi.. danse avec moi... (this is a really cool song, with African beats...) it cheers me up.

SVB? You know what your heart and your mind said, and sometimes we might not be making the correct choice and wants to releive our hearts... It's always easier to please the heart. I out all people should know this. I've chosen over and over and never do what my mind wants to do. Sometimes I fight it so much, I just shut my brain up. I actually wished my husband would be like yours so much that way I could easily let my brain make the decision. He is obviously not taking care at all of what he needs to. You're still taking care of him and he is DEMANDING it!
You want to know what I did this weekend? I thought I would already be in Florida, but I am not. Yeah, I'm one of many idiots that fall into the trap of yearning to please the mind and letting the heart decide. And I just end up confused! Friday H told me we wouldn't go to his parent's house, and we would stay home.. he came home early on friday and told me we should go for a walk. We didnt'talk about relationships...and it was surprising to be asked for a walk... I was like "okay" I went with him, we talked...went to the tennis courts and watched some players... nice.. then went home... We had dinner, then he kept playing thsi song by Jacques Brel, "Ne me quitte pas, il faut tout oublier" I have the English translation.. all dinner he kept playing over and over over over again.. And H hates when I play a song repeatly "Don't leave me, you have to forgive and forget" And then he downloaded the English Version as if I didn't understand HA HA..

Then we sat around reading the history of Jacques Brel...Then we watched a movie. And went to bed... He has been so pleasant..and in the morning he asked if I wanted to go shopping... ROFLMAO... HE HATES SHOPPING!!! So spent the rest of the day shopping around and eating chinese candies n my teeth was all black..funny as hell. We came home so tired... I didn't even cook dinner. He sat around the whole night after talking to one of my friends from USA and I fell asleep on the couch. He woke me up to come to bed, and I found him eating again hehehe....then we started chatting about statistics, polls and the election until we fell asleep..
Sunday, I was awoken with kisses and him telling me that I am sleeping a lot and if he should call the doctor. Anyways we spent a good day until we started to talk about the apartheid in south Africa.. haha yes we have heated discussions, but he's my best friend and even when we have those things it blows out in 5 minutes.. we all say what we have to say..some personal attacks, but its just prove what we say.. anyways...He wanted forever to have dreadlocks, so we bought extensions on saturday when we went shopping, so we spent like 4 hours, braiding and locking hair...

Then my pain started, and I didn't get time to make dinner.. so I said.. maybe we should pick up fries or pizza... then he said.. "Get dressed!" Ok we got dressed... We went to this really nice restaurant...and the minute we walked in.. everyone look at us because.. ok white guy with dreadlocks and black girl with blonde hair.. people never fail to notice us.. It's kinda fun to get all that attention and see people's faces... we're excentric together hehe..

Anyways we had a great time...and in the care he kept playing our songs.. "Everyday" Jamiroquai and hold my hand...

So I didn't have any ill-feelings all weekend, was kinda annoying to not hate him.

My whole point is that your H shows no affection towards you, he doesn't show any details, any plans, like he only think abotu himself and does NOTHING to keep you......I see really absolutely NO reason for you to accept him back inside the house or doing all this work for him. It seems like he gives you purpose, buy a dog <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> They are fun... See things even fall right he got to leave and give you space the hardest thing is the initial separation, You broke plan B, everyone has, but you can go dark and RESEND that letter if he didn't read it correctly.

I know the what ifs...but I bet in 2 weeks he would be back home, he can't help being a jerk, just like I can't help at times to go crazy, but I come back to earth after, but he is using you as a dish rag..... He should at least bring flowers to his maid and travel agent..

double post

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

Hi Harudah,

It sounds like you had a great weekend! You deserve all of that attention. I bet it felt great. Do you still think that your H is contacting his OW? Are you still thinking about plan B?

We went to this really nice restaurant...and the minute we walked in.. everyone look at us because.. ok white guy with dreadlocks and black girl with blonde hair.. people never fail to notice us.. It's kinda fun to get all that attention and see people's faces... we're excentric together hehe..

That just cracked me up! How hilarious! My H and I draw some attention, too. We're both 6 feet tall. Me: blond hair, blue eyes, H: dark hair, dark eyes. We speak Spanish everywhere we go. People look at us and have no clue what we're speaking. They never expect it to be Spanish. (as we've been told) Once we were riding in a train in Germany. I heard Americans behind us kind of whispering, "Where are they from?" The other said, "I don't know, I think they might be French." I just love people's reactions to us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I see really absolutely NO reason for you to accept him back inside the house or doing all this work for him. It seems like he gives you purpose, buy a dog They are fun...

He he, I'd buy a dog, I love dogs. Besides being fun, they are always happy to see you, and give you unconditional love, too. But we're not allowed to have them where I live. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
That's why I bought a fish. He's pretty loveable as far as fish go. He always comes up to my finger when I put it up to the tank. I think I'm turning out to be an ok fish mom, too (despite losing one fish). He's growing pretty quickly. I'm afraid he's going to outgrow his tank pretty soon. I gotta stop feeding him. (just kidding, you know)

But seriously, though, as time goes by my head is getting more involved. I thought that after a while I would get a clue as to where his heart really is. I'm finding out sooner than I thought. Like I said before, though, I might not even go back to plan B. I'm feeling more justified in just leaving.

Which reminds me, I have to call the Harleys to make an appointment.

I'll let you know how things go.

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

Greetings, and Salutations !

I am wondering (this morning) what you are doing with all your positive energy? I don't think you are a person that can mope non stop. So, what have you been doing?

While you are thinking - I hope you don't mind if I comment on some of the things you said earlier.

On your dream -
I saw my H eating jellybeans, and I wondered where he got them from. I searched around the house and I found that he had a stash of them that he was purposely hiding from me. We're talking bags of jellybeans stacked about 4 feet high. I further found out that his niece was sending them to him and they both swore that I should not find out about it.

These dreams are all about his lies, secrets, and separate life from me.

It looks like he is hoarding his love, everything - and giving you nothing. It's tough to live with out love in marriage. That's why we get married, to have more of it.



I talked to my mother at length about this. I read her the quote. She said, "exactly." She basically said that if I always have to be careful around him - if I have to suppress myself and constantly try to please him and not to get him upset for any reason, then I am not living.

She helped me realize something, too. At one point when my H's niece and nephews were visiting over the holidays, they asked me if I ever get angry (about anything that my H does). My H was at work at the time. I said, "not often." Well, I told my mother about this a long time ago. Boy she remembers EVERYTHING. I think that I used to get angry more towards the beginning of the relationship. But as time went by, I found that every time I would get angry at him, he would turn it around and get triply angry with me. He would make it all about me. He would then be upset (and not speaking to me for weeks sometimes) until I apologize. I think maybe I've been trained not to get angry at him and think that it's my fault. Anyway, that was my realization yesterday.

Thank you for talking to her about it. You already know what is happening, but she put it into words for you. She thinks allot like you do, and you understand her reasoning. You also know she would never hurt you on purpose. I agree you have not been living. You have been existing. God never intended for marriage to do that to us. It is supposed to add life, not drain it out of us.

It looks like you are right on about your training. He still does it to you even now. I would like to see you break free of that conditioning. This is why you need your head to run things this time. Your heart provides the motivation, and your head can get the job done.

Lets get something straight right now. You are not stupid. Look at all you have accomplished outside of this relationship. You are a smart gal, and you need to understand that you do have what it takes to make this work, if it can work at all. That depends on him exercising his freedom of choice in the right manner. He can choose to respond however he wishes, and we can't change that part of things. This is why I have encouraged you to call the Harleys for counseling. If they don't think they are the best resource for your case, they will refer you to someone that is.

This is not a simple case of needs not being met, and someone having an A - he is going to have to be reprogrammed to show care and protection, and you are going to have to re train yourself to do what is right, and let him be angry if he chooses to be. He has never responded to you being nice to him, (except to take more) so it will take some really firm boundaries. I believe if this is going to work, you are going to have to learn how to be really firm. Of course, you can leave at any time, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. From reading your responses, you are trying to decide if it is worth it to even try.


She gave me another earful, BTW. She basically said that it comes down to me being happy.

She doesn't see that I can be happy with him.

So what am I going to do? First, I am going to call the Harleys tomorrow and make an appointment, hopefully for this week.


You can't be happy with him unless some big changes are made. BIG changes. There are things you can do right now - to test the waters so to speak.

I am still leaning towards letting him come home next Monday (Nov. 1). If things don't work out as I hope, I will leave.

Call the Harleys TODAY. You need a plan, and you need time to begin before he comes back. If you read this too late to call today, please do it first thing tomorrow.

What you can do is start to be the person you are - and not let him batter you for being that person.

"What did you get a gold fish for, they are such a plain fish."
"I got a goldfish because that's what I wanted. You are going to see a lot of that in the future - me doing what I want, so get used to it."

"Will you find the best price, and book a flight for me? "
No, I am busy, and I don't have time, but you can call *** *** **** and they will help you, or you can look up travel agents in the yellow pages."


"I can't believe you are cold, it's not that cold out tonight"
"It's a known fact that people are different. If I feel cold, then I feel cold. I have a problem with the way you treat me when I voice my feelings about being cold. If you don't start treating me with love and respect, I will find someone that will. Perhaps you ought to think about that."

You have lots of past memories to draw from. You can think up things to say in most cases, and I suggest you start being different. I suspect when you met, you had an opinion - it's time to get it back. You are valuable in your own right. No matter what he says, you have value - your thoughts have value, your feelings have value. He can't devalue you without your consent, please don't give it to him.

If he gets angry, tell him you have no desire to talk to a mean, angry person, and that you will be glad to speak to him when he can be civil, then just leave the room.

I should add, that if you feel he is a danger to you, then you ought to get out now. You should only do this if you feel safe in doing it - if not, please book a flight to Chicago.

Believer, You're right. My H isn't putting any effort into us at all.

You know, I just got off the computer recently, and he called. He said, "somebody's been on the computer all day.

"Why did he call me all day? To see #1 if I found and washed the sheets yet. And #2 if I've found out about the rental car. If I can't get a Jeep Wrangler, he wants a Mustang convertible. Yeah, it sounds like he's going to work really hard this weekend helping his friend move (the reason he said that I shouldn't go).

All he's got on his mind is himself.


"somebody's been on the computer all day."
"yes, somebody has. It might be news to you, but I have a life too. I don't' sit around waiting for you to call and ask me to do things for you. If you want a great marriage, and a great partnership where we show love and respect, where we do things for each other, then lets talk about my computer time, but until then, you keep doing what you want, and I WILL BE DOING WHAT I WANT
. "


BTW, Harudah you are doing a good job - both in trying to heal your relationship, and in helping others. I think you are a valuable friend to SVB1 right now.

But seriously, though, as time goes by my head is getting more involved. I thought that after a while I would get a clue as to where his heart really is.

I'm finding out sooner than I thought. Like I said before, though, I might not even go back to plan B. I'm feeling more justified in just leaving.

Which reminds me, I have to call the Harleys to make an appointment. I'll let you know how things go.

Remember, he has trained you, but you have trained him too. He does what he does because it works. If it doesn't work any longer, he will either leave, or he will get retrained. Please make that call.

Having said that, I can't fault you if you want to leave. You have endured much, perhaps too much. If you continue to work on your marriage it will take a lot MORE work, there will be much heartache (before it's over,) and it may not even succeed. Only you can look back at how he has been, and know if you are willing to invest more of yourself in helping him. I also recommend prayer, and I will be praying for you too.

I believe in you, and in time you will come to know that my trust in you is valid. Until then, take it on faith.

SS

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi,
Wondering how you are?

Wondering if you made that phone call yet. Please understand, I am not pushing, just wondering where you are.

Hoping your fish is OK. Is this Lenny, or is it Lenny that left you, and you have a new one to replace him?

Smile, it's good for your face.

SS

Hello SS,

I am doing ok, thanks. I did make a call to MB to make an appt. I actually called on Monday, but had to leave a message. I finally got a call back yesterday and made an appt. for next Thursday evening. They didn't have anything sooner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Lenny is doing swimmingly. He is my remaining fish. I hadn't named my fish yet before I lost the first one. I think the goldfish that died had some sort of a bacterial infection, based on what I've been reading. Thankfully, Lenny didn't get sick as well. BTW, in Lenny's defense, he is one of the prettiest goldfish I have ever seen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He's easy to take care of as well.

My H left for Miami yesterday. He stopped at home quickly (while I was at work) to pick up/wash some clothes. He called me at work to say that he was leaving. He thanked me for renting the car and printing out the information for him. (I was slightly shocked.) I printed out his itinerary, rental car information, and directions from the airport to his friend's house. I also printed out directions from his friend's house to our ex-neighbor's house. He apparently left in a hurry because I came home and found that he left wet clothes both in the washer and drier, and I had to finish his laundry for him. He called me when he arrived at his friend's house.

I am a little disturbed today, though. I guess he has access to a computer in Florida. He sent and replied to some e-mails. I noticed that he deleted some of them and I was able to read them. They were, of course, to his sister and niece. He told them that he arrived in Miami and deserves a break for after all of the work he has done. He said "he rented himself" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> a car, which he doesn't like very much, but it was the only one that they had. He told them that he will be visiting our ex-neighbor. He also wants to drive out to Key West. He never mentioned once about having to work to help move his friend's stuff into the house. How much work would that take, anyway? Today, that's it. Then he's got Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and half of Monday to do whatever. It just bothers me that when I suggested to buy a ticket for myself, he said "it was going to be all work." Also, I knew that he planned on visiting our neighbor, but he never mentioned that he was planning on going to Key West (not that I care, but why can't he just TELL ME his plans). AND he deleted his e-mails so that I wouldn't see this info. Why? Ugghhh. Nothing is changing. The chaos is returning. I guess I'll see what kind of info he shares with me when he returns.

Who knows, maybe he is letting off some steam and spending more time by himself before he comes home to REALLY dedicate himself to me and our M.

Who am I kidding?

I haven't been moping around much. I have been limited on what I've been able to do, though, because I've been without my car until today. I spent the weekend cleaning and planning my life, both with, and without, my H. This involves looking into new jobs and a place to live. I'm dying to buy my own place. I just wish that I could focus my energy in one direction now -- work on M and life with H, or plan my new life alone. Otherwise, my house arrest time has been relaxing - reading, watching some DVDs that I've never gotten around to watching, making pizza, etc.

I also want to thank you for checking up on me and for your last post. Your last post was right on in so many ways.

This is not a simple case of needs not being met, and someone having an A - he is going to have to be reprogrammed to show care and protection, and you are going to have to re train yourself to do what is right, and let him be angry if he chooses to be. He has never responded to you being nice to him, (except to take more) so it will take some really firm boundaries. I believe if this is going to work, you are going to have to learn how to be really firm

You can't be happy with him unless some big changes are made. BIG changes

What you can do is start to be the person you are - and not let him batter you for being that person.

You are absolutely right. I really need to stand up for myself when he comes back and BE myself despite what he says or does. He will either be retrained, or he will leave, like you say. If he leaves, that's ok.

It's not going to be easy, though.

I should add, that if you feel he is a danger to you, then you ought to get out now. You should only do this if you feel safe in doing it - if not, please book a flight to Chicago.

To be honest, I don't feel that he is a physical danger to me. Yeah, he's pushed me around and hit me in the past. (It's horrifying and embarrassing to even have to mention this.) I've posted this before somewhere. This was during our first 2 years of M. We went to counseling and he hasn't laid a finger on me since, so I put it behind us. My H didn't want to continue the counseling after our chaplain started to focus on the R between my H and his father. I think that this is the reason that he doesn't want to do counseling again. Well, this reason and possibly because my H doesn't want to be M anymore.

You know, SS, I may be a smart gal. I know that I've accomplished a lot and can accomplish so much more. I am definitely not smart, though, when it comes to matters of the heart.

<small>[ October 28, 2004, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

I have another small update. After I posted last night, my H called me. We talked around 20 minutes or so. He asked about the car, told me about his day, etc. etc. He didn't tell me anything else about his plans, other than possibly going to visit our neighbor.

After that, I took a close look at our last phone bill. He has been using our calling card, which I knew, from the hotel. It turns out that he called someone in the city the night he would have received the plan B letter. He was on the phone for 62 minutes. There was also another local number that I didn't recognize that he called the following Saturday for around 5 minutes.

I checked both numbers using reverse phone number look up, but I couldn't get anything. I called both of them as well. With the first, I got a computerized voicemail saying that "the person that you called is not available." With the second phone #, I reached the voicemail of some guy.

I don't know what to think of this, or if I should think of it at all.

Hi SVB1,

I am doing ok, thanks. I did make a call to MB to make an appt. I actually called on Monday, but had to leave a message. I finally got a call back yesterday and made an appt. for next Thursday evening. They didn't have anything sooner.

Glad you are OK, I really expect you to be OK. However, I tend to worry.
Bummer about the appointment, but that is better than nothing.


Lenny is doing swimmingly. He is my remaining fish. I hadn't named my fish yet before I lost the first one. I think the goldfish that died had some sort of a bacterial infection, based on what I've been reading. Thankfully, Lenny didn't get sick as well. BTW, in Lenny's defense, he is one of the prettiest goldfish I have ever seen. He's easy to take care of as well.

I see you have a sense of humor too (swimmingly) Remember, you don't have to defend Lenny to us, we think you made a great choice. I don't mean this as anything except as information for you, but notice that defense of Lenny in your statement. I hope this is useful information for you - in light of what is going on, it SHOULD BE useful.


My H left for Miami yesterday. He stopped at home quickly (while I was at work) to pick up/wash some clothes. He called me at work to say that he was leaving. He thanked me for renting the car and printing out the information for him. (I was slightly shocked.)

Remember, he does what is necessary to secure your help. If getting angry works, he does that, if nice works, he does that. I am not judging him so much as wanting you to be able to understand what he is doing. YOU look for the good in people, HE seems to be saying "what do I have to do get what I want." Or "what is the easiest way to get what I want.?"

I am saying this based on the profile I get from these posts. You correct me if I am wrong.


From the description you relate of the trip, and the deleted mail, nothing has changed. I worry that he will sense your changes, and play the game just differently enough to buy some time until he is ready for WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.

Who knows, maybe he is letting off some steam and spending more time by himself before he comes home to REALLY dedicate himself to me and our M.

Who am I kidding?

I admit that we don't know. If I had to make a judgment right now, I don't think I would say he was a changed man, but all of us can change IF WE WANT TO.

You are absolutely right. I really need to stand up for myself when he comes back and BE myself despite what he says or does. He will either be retrained, or he will leave, like you say. If he leaves, that's ok.

You sound like you trust yourself to do what is needed, and you sound like you believe you will know and understand if things continue to be "wrong." I worry, and your Mom worries, because long standing habits are hard to break. So, we trust you, but we will worry, and we expect you to let us know how things are going.
Bad, or good, either way. Also understand that there won't be any "we told you so's" because our aim is to give support, not whack you with 2x4's. If there are problems, lets figure out how to fix things - not bash SVB1.


To be honest, I don't feel that he is a physical danger to me. Yeah, he's pushed me around and hit me in the past. (It's horrifying and embarrassing to even have to mention this.) I've posted this before somewhere.

Not that you mention it, I remember you saying it before. It's one of the things I worry about - when people that are used to getting their way can't get it any longer, they sometimes resort to force. Your mom worries about this too, I know she does. I believe that you will be careful, and leave if there are signs of violence. I trust you with this - but please be careful.


You know, SS, I may be a smart gal. I know that I've accomplished a lot and can accomplish so much more. I am definitely not smart, though, when it comes to matters of the heart.

I thought long about this one. I think you are smart about this too. You figured out that something was wrong, you came here, learned as much as you could, and wanted to confront him. Were you perfect? Well, no, but name one of us that is?

You want your M to succeed. That is admirable, not stupid. You are doing, have done every thing you could think of to make problems into success. All of these are smart. You have said that if he won't work on things, you have a backup plan.

Perfect? Perhaps not
Stupid? No - and you can see many things you have done right.

Hindsight vision is always 20/20. None of us have that kind of vision when we marry. As good as you were, you couldn't see into the future. Please give yourself credit for the good you have done - even more than for the few things that you find (with that marvelous 20/20 hindsight vision) may be mistakes.

I can only imagine your feelings now as you wait for him to return. Please trust yourself, I think you can and will do an overall good job. Please forgive yourself if you don't do this exactly right. None of us are perfect. Please trust God to help and guide you as you try to make your marriage work, I know he loves and cares for you, and I know he continues to work for good in our lives as we exercise faith.

God be with you.

SS

Hello SS,

Remember, he does what is necessary to secure your help. If getting angry works, he does that, if nice works, he does that. I am not judging him so much as wanting you to be able to understand what he is doing. YOU look for the good in people, HE seems to be saying "what do I have to do get what I want." Or "what is the easiest way to get what I want.?"

I am saying this based on the profile I get from these posts. You correct me if I am wrong.

From the description you relate of the trip, and the deleted mail, nothing has changed. I worry that he will sense your changes, and play the game just differently enough to buy some time until he is ready for WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.

No, you are correct. I didn't even look at it that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But you are absolutely right. My silly thinking was, "he thanked me - maybe he's changing!"

This is why I post here and appreciate your help and insight.

As for my family, they are worried about me. I spoke with my mother yesterday. I think that she is very disappointed with me. My brother is too. Though I know that they will ultimately support me, no matter what I decide, I still feel 2x4s from them. I got a "ok, so I guess you're going to let him come home and you're going to wait for him to dump you." from my mother the other day. Also, according to my mother, my brother said that he no longer wants to give me any advice, because I won't take it. He says that I will always take my H back, despite what anyone says. My brother told me in the past that I need to just leave him. I'm hesitant to call my brother now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I want to do the right thing. But again, what is right? Leaving my M, or staying in my M? I am still stuck with the belief that I cannot leave my M. I don't want to leave my M, but maybe that's the best thing for me to do. I can't change my H, and I don't think he wants to change. I am praying that it will be absolutely clear to me in one week or two.

I can only imagine your feelings now as you wait for him to return.

To be honest, I don't think I am really looking forward to it. I was more at peace being by myself. He's going to come home and I'm pretty sure things are going to return as before. I haven't seen him for 6 weeks and I feel like I don't even know him anymore. It's going to be so awkward. I should be looking forward to this, and I'm not! That is so wrong! I think this is because it is really sinking in that my H doesn't care for me at all. The latest blow was his trip to Miami without me. If it were ME going to Miami, I would have wanted my H to be with me.

Who knows, though, I could totally change my mind once I see my H. I'll take one look at him and he will be sweet to me, and I will be HOOKED again. I will be under his spell.

I will let you know what happens.

UPDATE......

My H is home. His plane arrived late, so he got home after I got back from class. (I checked on the internet - it was legit) He also called me before he left and left me a message saying the flight was delayed.

Well, he was sweet. He seems different. Good different, though. He brought home food and was attentive. He talked for 45 minutes straight about his trip to Miami - including all the details. He told me about Key West, too. He didn't seem to hide anything.

It was slightly awkward having him home, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I was, and am, being cautious. I am going to really be watching his actions.

This is what also keeps going through my mind,

This is not a simple case of needs not being met, and someone having an A - he is going to have to be reprogrammed to show care and protection, and you are going to have to re train yourself to do what is right, and let him be angry if he chooses to be. He has never responded to you being nice to him, (except to take more) so it will take some really firm boundaries. I believe if this is going to work, you are going to have to learn how to be really firm

You can't be happy with him unless some big changes are made. BIG changes

What you can do is start to be the person you are - and not let him batter you for being that person.

He has already called me today. We will be going to vote together after work.

I'm hopeful again. (but cautious)

<small>[ November 02, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

SVB, been keeping up on your story. I'm happy to read this today. I sure hope you rebuild your M.


Sincerely, KY

Good to see you feeling a bit better.. Good luck in M... You and only you know what you can take and what you can't in your marriage...As long as you can look yourself in the mirror and just be content/or happy.. Go for it... but know your limits... And its never too late..

Have fun SBV

KY, thanks for keeping up on my story. It never ceases to amaze me that there are people out there that care enough to drudge through my looonngg posts and ramblings! That's a lot of reading!

I, too, hope we can rebuild our M. We haven't begun the really tuff stuff yet, though. We haven't even discussed it. I know at least I'll do my best.

Harudah, thanks to YOU too for sticking with me. Only time will tell now what will happen. I'm hoping for the best.

My silly thinking was, "he thanked me - maybe he's changing!"

Forgive me, but I would change this to
"My hopeful thinking........."

I don't think you are silly to have hope.


As for my family, they are worried about me. I spoke with my mother yesterday. I think that she is very disappointed with me.


Remember that they want you to be happy. That is all they want, and they think they know the best way for you to be happy.

It sometimes helps to tell them that you want to do all that you can to save your M, and that if H doesn't respond you will take their advice.

I look back at what most posters here have said to you about sticking to plan B. They want to spare you the pain - because they care about you.

My brother is too. Though I know that they will ultimately support me, no matter what I decide, I still feel 2x4s from them. I got a "ok, so I guess you're going to let him come home and you're going to wait for him to dump you." from my mother the other day. Also, according to my mother, my brother said that he no longer wants to give me any advice, because I won't take it. He says that I will always take my H back, despite what anyone says. My brother told me in the past that I need to just leave him. I'm hesitant to call my brother now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Again all you can do is explain your motives, and methods, and go on. You can also thank your Mom, and brother for their help, and ask them to keep helping. Tell them that you may not take all of their advice, but that you are thankful for it, and that you know they want what is best for you.


I want to do the right thing. But again, what is right? Leaving my M, or staying in my M? I am still stuck with the belief that I cannot leave my M. I don't want to leave my M, but maybe that's the best thing for me to do. I can't change my H, and I don't think he wants to change.

You have a right to your own feelings about marriage. I often ask myself "what would Jesus do?"

I imagine him saying to the women taken in adultery "neither do I condemn thee, go thy way and sin no more."

It's the same Jesus that said "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

Now, can you imagine him saying to you:
"Tough luck, you married him, you are stuck with him. I don't care if he beats you, cheats, on you, or emotionally abuses you, you have to stay with him."

I can't imagine that -

I am praying that it will be absolutely clear to me in one week or two.

When I have an important decision, I usually gather all the facts, and make a decision based on the information I have. Then I take it to God in prayer, and I say: "This is what I think is best, is it what you want?

If it is right, I feel positive, clear headed, and sure. If it is wrong, I feel unsure, foggy, and doubtful.

It's hard to explain, but I know you can get an answer the same way. Perhaps you already have experience. Please forgive me if I am telling you something you already know.



To be honest, I don't think I am really looking forward to it. I was more at peace being by myself. He's going to come home and I'm pretty sure things are going to return as before. I haven't seen him for 6 weeks and I feel like I don't even know him anymore. It's going to be so awkward. I should be looking forward to this, and I'm not! That is so wrong! I think this is because it is really sinking in that my H doesn't care for me at all. The latest blow was his trip to Miami without me. If it were ME going to Miami, I would have wanted my H to be with me.

That's what I meant. Hard to face him, hard to know how to react, hard to know what to say.


Well, he was sweet. He seems different. Good different, though. He brought home food and was attentive. He talked for 45 minutes straight about his trip to Miami - including all the details. He told me about Key West, too. He didn't seem to hide anything.

That's a good sign. If he thought about things - and if the short plan B helped his thought processes, he could be realizing what might really happen. To early to tell though.

It was slightly awkward having him home, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I was, and am, being cautious. I am going to really be watching his actions.

Keep in mind all your findings of the last 6 or 7 months. Keep in mind he would leave and not tell you where he went. Keep in mind the other things you found, and how you were treated. I think you will know by the end of the year for sure.

It might be good to tell him point blank that things need to be different or it is all over. I don't know how you feel about that, and it may be well to wait until after your phone counseling before you do anything much.

I don't think you have to watch him 24/7, or that you have to confront him about everything. Practice standing up for yourself - you already know what he does, or has said in the past that is disrespectful, so practice a response.

Why did you do it that way? Don't you know my way is better?
"Well, I think my way is better, and I am willing to talk about it, but unless you have a really good reason, I am going to continue to do it the way I want."

Again, this is for ideas, you can do much better.


It doesn't have to be a big deal, you just live like you want to live, and see how he reacts.


Don't let your families comments get to you.

You are trustworthy, please trust yourself.

SS