Hi S,
It's nice to hear from you.

Once again, I haven't been here in a while.
We know. I tend to worry........ I shouldn't really, but I do. Maybe if I quit watching the news, it would be easier. Glad you are among the feeling, even if the feelings are sometimes hard to handle.


Sorry you were sick. How did you hurt your finger? Trying to get the top off from a kid proof pill bottle? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I probably shouldn't ask, you can skip it if you want.

I was also away for work for a week. And finally, I just couldn't bring myself to come here. I think I lurked only once during the past month.

I am sorry if I contributed to it being hard for you to come here. I find I wonder if the being sick means that your mind, and body have been under such stress that your immune system has a hard time coping.

Trust me, though, I've been pondering your questions throughout the whole time.
I hope you had more pleasant things to think about while you were sick. Things like "Should I have the strawberry ice cream, or the chocolate? Which one would make me feel the best?"

The main question has been "how do you feel about yourself?" I'm not really sure how to answer this question.

When you are not sure, you can say anything -
"I feel kind of purple, with pink spots. Sometimes I have gold stars around the top, and silver star dust."

I have good and bad days. On the good days, I'm OK. On the bad days I can get pretty disgusted with myself. Today is a bad day. For instance, I'm upset with myself for having gained back all of the weight that I lost during the beginning of last year. As much as I try, I can't get back in control of my eating.

Soooooo, you are like the rest of us. I'll see your few pounds, and raise you five. I'm upset with myself too, but I'll probably live with it. I may even change things, if I can get RID OF THE REST OF THE THINGS CAUSING ME STRESS, JUST LIKE YOU NEED TO DO.

I suppose you can't get rid of some of it, but maybe find ways to cope. Am I right about being sick? In years past, you were almost always healthy ? ?

I don't mean to say you shouldn't worry about your weight. Just remember to put things into perspective. I really believe you have had more important things on your mind. These are life, or death type things to our emotional self, so I would give your self a break, and go forward knowing you will do better this year.

There are also times on my bad days when I feel as if I have nothing to look forward to.
Ah Haaaa - I'm going to tell your mom not to cook for you any more. Not sure what she will say when I tell her you don't look forward to it now days.
Oh, wait - you were talking about other things. Sorry to get off track.

Really, most of the people here would understand exactly where you are coming from, and many, many are now in a much better place. I promise you can get there too.
Remember that there is the world you see on the news, but there is a whole n'other world where God still does his work. There are still smiles in your future, I know there are.

I feel stuck. I am stuck in a bad marriage, stuck in a job that I'm unhappy with, and stuck in a city where I don't want to live. I also realize that I'll probably never have children. (This is probably for the best since I probably shouldn't have kids with this man - but I still can't help feeling sad.)

We often don't realize as we go along, what the results of our decisions will look like. Some of these things are from your decisions. Some are from his, and some are the "luck of the draw." I can't change these things for you, and though God could, he most often does not. Usually, he teaches us what to do, and expects us to change our own world. This is NOT a punishment, but a blessing. Think on this........our abilities come from our overcoming the problems we face, and learning new skills, and new habits. By letting you cope, God is letting you grow.

Still, it is hard, isn't it.

You are not "stuck" in your marriage, or your job, and you may still have children. We don't really know. I hope when you pray, you talk to him about these things. I hope you tell him your feelings, your fears, and your hopes. I hope you ask him how to get through this, and to teach you what to do, how to do it. I assure you he cares, and will help, I know it.

Please keep in mind that I don't feel this way all of the time. It's only on the bad days and today is a bad day. It is two years to the day that my father died. It is one year to the day that my H took his first secret trip (that I'm aware of) and lied to me about where he went. The next day was when I discovered one of his condoms was missing (I didn't think to count them that same day). I confronted him officially about the condom and an A the day after that. I am feeling a little like I'm re-living all of this stuff.

There will always be triggers. I am so sorry it all comes down on you at once. Even as I type this, I realize you may be feeling better by the time read , but want you to know people care about you, and how you feel. Wish we could do more - hope this cheers you up.

I am thankful that my H is in Argentina right now because I don't think that I could look at his face right now.

How did the wedding present planning turn out? Did you find the courage to talk about it?

How come you didn't go with him?
I mean, we know how things have been going, but I would have thought you would have at least discussed it?

OK, the pity party is over.

Oh shoot, we were going to bring food ! I think Orchid has some new party games too !

I'll post more later.

It is really good to hear from you, and you are always welcome to vent. I am not going to ask a lot of questions (just these few that I already asked) because I want to hear how the last few months have gone, and what you are feeling now.

Remember, people care about you.

SS

Hi svb,

I don't think that I ever posted to you before, I haven't posted a lot in the past anyway.

I just wanted to tell you that I am soo sorry for your sitch and I can relate very well. I think, well really know that my H has had some kind of affair (EA or PA?). He will not admit to it and we have been going back and forth since June 2003. This long-term "denial" (yours and his- mine and his) and "inertia" is very tough to deal with...

I understand your ups and downs. I am at a down right now, but sometimes it is nice to go along with the pretending nothing's wrong skits that they play. It is like taking a breather, everybody has to rest sometimes, physically and emotionally.

I hope that you find your truth and then can make plans for your future based on what is real, and what you know. That will be a step in the right direction!

jls

Hello SS,

I'm glad you replied. You made me laugh. Thanks.

Sorry you were sick. How did you hurt your finger? Trying to get the top off from a kid proof pill bottle? I probably shouldn't ask, you can skip it if you want.

OK, I'll tell you how I hurt my finger.. but keep in mind I was sick when I did this! I was coming down the stairs (I had a fever and I was dizzy) and I thought I was at the bottom... but I wasn't...I had about 2 stairs to go... I twisted my ankle and landed pretty hard on my knee... but that was nothing compared to my finger that got caught in the railing. The tip of my pointer finger got pinched/bent. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> It still hurts after 4 weeks, but nothing like that 1st week! It's amazing how much you take your fingers for granted. I couldn't use it at all -- and I kept bumping it into everything!

I am sorry if I contributed to it being hard for you to come here. I find I wonder if the being sick means that your mind, and body have been under such stress that your immune system has a hard time coping.

Don't worry, it wasn't you at all. As for being sick, I haven't been that sick in a long time. I can't remember the last time I was sick. I could barely walk 3 steps without getting wiped out (let alone walk down stairs!) I missed an entire week of work. At first I was told it was strep throat, but the test results came back negative. Then I was told that it was mono (!?), but then THAT test came back negative. I guess it was just a bad case of the flu. I guess it could be the stress -- combined with taking a commuter train into work full of sick people. I'm going to start wearing a mask and gloves everywhere I go.

On a positive note, my H took good care of me while I was sick. Maybe I SHOULD get sick more often. Hmmmm.

How did the wedding present planning turn out? Did you find the courage to talk about it? How come you didn't go with him? I mean, we know how things have been going, but I would have thought you would have at least discussed it?

How come I didn't go? I don't think he ever planned on me going. I know he was planning this trip for a few months and he never talked to his family as if I were going,too. When we started to talk about making his travel arrangements, he never specifically asked if I wanted to go, nor did I say anything. The most he said was, "How many vacation days do you have,-- two?" He's there for 4 1/2 weeks. To be honest, I didn't even feel like going this time around. I think I'd feel a little awkward around his family. Plus, those Argentinean mosquitos really love my American blood. I almost think I'd rather get sick and fall down the stairs again than get eaten alive by mosquitos. I don't know.

As for the wedding present, we never officially discussed it. I think he pretty much decided against paying for their honeymoon all by himself. He got upset with his niece. He told me that his niece and her fiance were planning on taking a trip together to Brazil. This kind of infuriated my H. He told me, "They're going to get married, they should be saving their $$$ for their wedding!" There's no way he'd want to pay for their honeymoon after that. Not only that, but I've talked to him since he's been in Argentina, and he's met this fiance. I don't think he likes him very much. Plus, remember that he doesn't know that I know that he was thinking about paying for their honeymoon AND we dont know exactly when the wedding is.

As for gaining weight, you are right -- there are worse things to have to worry about.

Really, most of the people here would understand exactly where you are coming from, and many, many are now in a much better place. I promise you can get there too. Remember that there is the world you see on the news, but there is a whole n'other world where God still does his work. There are still smiles in your future, I know there are.

I'll take your word for it.

There will always be triggers. I am so sorry it all comes down on you at once. Even as I type this, I realize you may be feeling better by the time read , but want you to know people care about you, and how you feel. Wish we could do more - hope this cheers you up.

Thanks for caring. I do feel cheered up. But I think I will be calling my mother now. I'm sure she's feeling a lot worse than I am right now. Hopefully, I'll still be ok later.

jls,

Thanks for your post. It does seem that we're going through a similar situation. And for almost a similar period of time. I'm so sorry that you are going through this as well and are at a down period.

I do know what you mean about the breather. I do feel like I'm taking a breather right now. Maybe I would go insane otherwise - with the constant worrying, hypervigilance, and mistrust. It feels ok to let go for a little while. But it doesn't resolve anything. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

What do you plan to do? Sometimes I wonder if I can settle with living like this forever. I'm going to read up on your story - I'm not familiar with it. I think my breather might end when my H returns from Argentina and I start using the GPS system in his car. Of course, what will I do with the info I might find out? I don't know.

double post

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

triple post

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

YES!! You got the GPS.

I am so glad to see you do this.
I don't think that you're going to like what you find, but at least you will KNOW.

Actually, you already know something is "not right", but the fact that you don't know anything definite makes it hard for you to decide whether to keep plugging away or decide that enough is enough.

I'm glad to see action.

I'm sorry you've been so ill, and now a hurt finger (does it throb until you lift it into the air?). When it rains it pours, doesn't it?

Hi S !!

OK, I'll tell you how I hurt my finger..

I can hardly wait!
I hope you don't think I am teasing you.


but keep in mind I was sick when I did this!

That always makes a difference. Sometimes the difference between teasing, and not teasing.
(SS tries to hold a straight face.)


I think I had the same thing you had, only I had it in November. It has really gotten around here this winter. Both W and I were so sick that we went to the doctor when we got it. Same test - but same reault. Dr said it was viral, just tough it out. You are better now? I hope?

Really, I wouldn't have teased you while you were sick. Really.

Did you see the doctor about the finger, it sounds like it was broken. I am sorry about the pain, I know what broken feels like. Not my finger though.


I guess it could be the stress -- combined with taking a commuter train into work full of sick people. I'm going to start wearing a mask and gloves everywhere I go.

I would guess the stress had a great deal to do with it. I hope you are taking care of yourself. I laughed when I read the part about the mask, and gloves. I'd like to see that, especaially if I had a camera that day. We could post it on the photo thread.

On a positive note, my H took good care of me while I was sick. Maybe I SHOULD get sick more often. Hmmmm.

This is good news. It's like if something happens, he responds, but otherwise, he lives a separate life. I wish I knew why. Why if he wanted children at one point, is he so against it now. I don't ask you every thing I think about, but I wonder about a lot of things. Much of it doesn't make sense to me.


How come I didn't go? I don't think he ever planned on me going. I know he was planning this trip for a few months and he never talked to his family as if I were going,too. When we started to talk about making his travel arrangements, he never specifically asked if I wanted to go, nor did I say anything. The most he said was, "How many vacation days do you have,-- two?" He's there for 4 1/2 weeks.

If my W couldn't go, I would make sure she knew she was wanted, and would be missed. He is more from a different culture, I don't know the differences like you do, but is this normal?

Did you ever speak up, and say you wished you could go?

S, you sit here, S's H, you sit over there. Face each other....now, S, what are your biggest concerns?

H, what do you think about her concerns?

H, now tell us your concerns.......

Sigh, one of these days.


To be honest, I didn't even feel like going this time around. I think I'd feel a little awkward around his family.

Beep, Beep, Beep -
This answer raises concerns. Oh, there are times when people fall in love, and the family disaproves, and the couple says "we can just live with out them then."

Was this one of these things?
If not, would you mind discussing it a little more with me? Is it the phone conversations you heard him have with his sister? It brings me back to Orchids question to you - "how do you feel about yourself?"

Now, I realize this trip was not something you could have taken 4 weeks off work to do, but if you could have done that, could you have gone, and held up your head, laughed, talked, and shown his family just how good you really are? I assume by now you speak spanish like a native?

Makes me wonder what you were doing there when you met him. Just curious though, it really doesn't have a bearing on what is happening now.

Plus, those Argentinean mosquitos really love my American blood. I almost think I'd rather get sick and fall down the stairs again than get eaten alive by mosquitos. I don't know.

Ah, the truth comes out. I have a neighboor that lived in Argentina a few years, and he says he once over heard two mosquitos talking about him. "Shall we eat him here, or take him home first? We better eat him here, if we take him home, the big ones will take him away from us."

I see you have really mixed feelings about going, even if you could have gone. I believe they are related to your feelings about him, more than anything.


Plus, remember that he doesn't know that I know that he was thinking about paying for their honeymoon AND we dont know exactly when the wedding is.

For some reason I thought he was going FOR the wedding. You never said that, but I kind of got that impression. This is just a visit for visit's sake. It makes me wonder..........I would suppse you wonder too.

As for gaining weight, you are right -- there are worse things to have to worry about.

I have faith that if and when things settle down, you can mannage this one. I know we all worry about it, but I bet I need to worry more than you. I still like myself most days.


I'll take your word for it. (that you will be happy again.)

There are many things that I don't KNOW, but that I strongly believe. One is the sun will come up tomorrow morning. Another is that you will be happy again. Not just "I can live with this" happy, but the happy that is in your dreams, but that you are afraid to think about lately. I really believe that.

You see, most people make their own luck. You didn't get where you are by avoiding work, and by hiding your light under a bushell. If you knew right now what God wanted you to do, and knew it 100%, you would do it with all your heart. Over time, you will know what to do, and I believe you will do whatever it takes, and do it well. I think your mother would agree with me on this.



Thanks for caring. I do feel cheered up. But I think I will be calling my mother now. I'm sure she's feeling a lot worse than I am right now. Hopefully, I'll still be ok later.

One of the problems with me writing is that I don't have time to reply as often as I would like to. I wanted to come back that night, and ask how your mother was, and how you were. I am sure by now you are doing better, and I tease a lot, but it's to help with the down feelings, not because I make light of you personally. I am sure you know this, but wanted to say it.

I would still like to know how your mother was when you called. Also how you are, and tell the truth - we do our best when we have the facts to work with.

SS thinks about how to say this....

And, I don't want the standard answer "I am feeling much better now." I'm half teasing, but the question is serious - OK?

Like Turtle head, I think you may be able to get some valueable imformation from the GPS. Realize it may tell you where he parked, but not where he went from the parking lot. If it is a residential area, it may still leave a lot of unanswered questions.

What kind of plans do you have for YOU while he is gone? Are you just taking it day by day? Going to visit your own parents? I hope you have a full social calendar while he is gone. If not, I'll send you a day by day list of what you need to be doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

Update...

H will be back on Sunday morning, the 13th. I have to pick him up at the airport. I'm not sure overall how I feel about this. Sometimes I miss him... and sometimes I have bad dreams/memories about him and I'm happy that he's gone.

I've checked out his car and found a perfect place for the GPS device. I can put it inside one of the back seats. I just have to take it for a test run before he gets back to see how well it works. I really have a feeling he'll be taking one of his special trips on his first or second day back. Well, during the first week, at least.

Yeah, I won't necessarily know exactly WHAT he's doing on his trips. I'll find out approximately WHERE he goes and parks and for exactly how long. Maybe then I can check out what's in the area - and possibly stake out the area on one of his days off to see if he shows up and where he goes after he parks. I really have a feeling it's not too far from where I work. Maybe one day I can confront him saying, "Some of us went out to lunch at work today. On the way back I saw your car. I saw the license plate. What were you doing in the city?" He wouldn't be able to deny it. But I'd be curious to see what he would say. If I don't like his answer, I could say "I've had enough of this" ... and leave.

OK, this is my fantasy, anyway.

On the other hand - on a more positive note, I've been in contact pretty often with my H - either by email or phone.

We had a pretty deep conversation (for us, anyway)last Wednesday. He was at his favorite sister's house. He was telling me about his concerns about his mother, etc. He also told me that HE WANTS TO GO TO IC! I think he and his sister must have been talking a lot - since she suggested this to him in the past. He suggested that we both see ICs. (different ones) He wants me to find a male counselor for him and make an appointment right away for when he returns!! OK, I'm being his secretary again, but I really don't mind doing this one.

Maybe we're getting somewhere.

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

Hi SS,

I wanted to post again to answer some of your questions.

Dr said it was viral, just tough it out. You are better now? I hope? Really, I wouldn't have teased you while you were sick. Really. Did you see the doctor about the finger, it sounds like it was broken. I am sorry about the pain, I know what broken feels like. Not my finger though

Healthwise, I am very much better. Thank you. As for my finger, I never had it checked out. I had broken finger once when I was a kid. It swelled like crazy, turned all black & blue underneath, and I couldn't bend it. This time, it didn't swell very much, I could bend it most of the way, and it only turned a little black & blue. As best as I can recall, the pain was about the same. So I figured that it wasn't broken and it would have been a waste of time to get it checked out. Now, after 6 weeks, and I STILL have to be careful with my finger, I really wonder. Oh well, it's too late now to do anything about it. At least it's not crooked.

I wasn't going to go to the Dr. either when I was sick. I thought, "it's just the flu." But then after I had a fever 6 days straight, I thought, "maybe I better go."

I guess I don't like going to the Dr. I guess I take after my grandmother. She (no joke) literally chopped off the tip of her finger and never went to the doctor. Her finger healed just fine. Now does that make us tough, or crazy? So now you have a little more insight into my family. (this was my mother's mother, BTW)Shoot, look at the example that was set for me! How can I go the Dr for my little ol' sore finger!

This is good news. It's like if something happens, he responds, but otherwise, he lives a separate life. I wish I knew why. Why if he wanted children at one point, is he so against it now. I don't ask you every thing I think about, but I wonder about a lot of things. Much of it doesn't make sense to me.

You're supposed to be giving me all of the answers!

But seriously, a lot of it doesn't make much sense to me either. I wonder if he is just very confused (mid life crisis?) I pray that counseling will help him - even if things don't work out between us.

If my W couldn't go, I would make sure she knew she was wanted, and would be missed. He is more from a different culture, I don't know the differences like you do, but is this normal? Did you ever speak up, and say you wished you could go?

I don't know if there's much of a cultural difference in this. I don't know if it's normal. I never spoke up about wanting to go or not, I just secretly hoped that he would have wanted me to go. I am also getting a lot of flack for letting him go for such a long time. (from my mother and my friend/co-worker) Based on the fact that he didn't want to spend Thanksgiving or Christmas w/me and then he takes off for 4 1/2 weeks to spend time with his family. Not to mention all of the $$$ involved. I was told that if it were them, they wouldn't put up with it.

I don't even know how I feel about it. I suppose maybe I should be upset. I don't know. Am I being a doormat? He's down there with his family, and I am at home working, taking care of everything, and trying to figure out how he can spend all that he needs to spend for this trip while staying in our budget (I made a budget for us at the beginning of the year) and still save $$$. So basically, I'm at home trying to sacrifice and save $$$ so he can spend it!

To be honest, I didn't even feel like going this time around. I think I'd feel a little awkward around his family.

Beep, Beep, Beep - This answer raises concerns. Oh, there are times when people fall in love, and the family disaproves, and the couple says "we can just live with out them then." Was this one of these things? If not, would you mind discussing it a little more with me? Is it the phone conversations you heard him have with his sister? It brings me back to Orchids question to you - "how do you feel about yourself?"

Yeah, I'd feel awkward because I know that he's told most of his sisters, if not all, of our problems and his plans to leave me. And he's told his favorite sister even more intimite details of our situation. But if I went, I would have made the best of it.

I do speak Spanish. My mother is from Argentina as well. I didn't learn as a child (except for a few words and phrases) but in high school and college. I went to Argentina my junior year in college to study abroad. This is when I met him (briefly). He was in the process of getting paperwork together to study in the States. The rest is history.

I would still like to know how your mother was when you called. Also how you are, and tell the truth - we do our best when we have the facts to work with.

My mother was doing much better than I (or she) expected on that day. Thanks for asking. As for me, in general, I am just OK.

And finally

What kind of plans do you have for YOU while he is gone? Are you just taking it day by day? Going to visit your own parents? I hope you have a full social calendar while he is gone. If not, I'll send you a day by day list of what you need to be doing.

I'm taking things day by day. I have no special plans, unfortunately. It's much different now compared to my official plan B time. I had more energy and plans then, for some reason.

I'm curious to see what kind of list you would come up with of things I need to be doing! Bring it on!

OK, I'm done with my post. SS, you probably got much more info than you really needed. Thanks for reading.

<small>[ March 07, 2005, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

Hi svb,

Glad you are back. I bet you are having mixed feelings about the GPS. Please tell me how this works out for you, as I have been thinking of buying one (an aunt left me a little money, so I can finally do it if I want, but as I am a SAHM, that is also gonna' be my possible running money).

I know what you mean about the finger thing, I come from a family of STRONG SOUTHERN belles. It makes it hard to complain. Also if I have a hurt finger, my H automatically has a worse hurting hand! Know what I mean?!

I just want to reiterate that I feel so bad for you and can relate. I hope you find some ANSWERS, and I am sure that everyone here will help you deal with whatever they are.

((svb}}


jls

Ok, now where were we before my DSL line went down? Off the east coast in a fishing boat?

No, that was probably WAT.

Oh, here we are?

H will be back on Sunday morning, the 13th. I have to pick him up at the airport. I'm not sure overall how I feel about this. Sometimes I miss him... and sometimes I have bad dreams/memories about him and I'm happy that he's gone.

This part sounds normal. They say you are done when you no longer miss him, and are relieved that you don't have to deal with him/his behavior.

I think the dreams can tell you something though, at least you can examine them and look at what they suggest and get some idea about how your mind puts 2+2 together when you are asleep.

Yeah, I won't necessarily know exactly WHAT he's doing on his trips. I'll find out approximately WHERE he goes and parks and for exactly how long. Maybe then I can check out what's in the area - and possibly stake out the area on one of his days off to see if he shows up and where he goes after he parks.

Keep in mind that:
1. He doesn't tell you that he goes places
2. He denies it when you bring it up, and if pinned down, he is vague, and tried to make you feel like you are crazy.

This is not someone that is putting their marriage, and their spouse first. If you do confront him, and he does the same, remember this behavior means something all by it self - regardless of what he is really doing.


I really have a feeling it's not too far from where I work. Maybe one day I can confront him saying, "Some of us went out to lunch at work today. On the way back I saw your car. I saw the license plate. What were you doing in the city?" He wouldn't be able to deny it. But I'd be curious to see what he would say. If I don't like his answer, I could say "I've had enough of this" ... and leave.

His answers are always half way believable. He is a smart man in some ways at least. You could not do this - you couldn't lie like that, and have it be believable. Not because it is beyond your ability, but because your heart wouldn't let you do it. It means something to me that he can do it without batting an eye. You don't get good at something without practice.

OK, this is my fantasy, anyway.

Consider what it means that he would not tell you, and that he would lie about it if you bring it up. Also think about some of the things you have been told in the past. Visiting friends and so on. If he was visiting a friend, there would be no reason in the world for him not to tell you about it.


That is, unless you have grilled him about every little thing all your married life. Then I could see him keeping his mouth shut so has not to play 20 questions every time you see him.

BTW, I can't see you being this way, until you started to have worries, then maybe you have watched him closer.


On the other hand - on a more positive note, I've been in contact pretty often with my H - either by email or phone.

How does this feel to you?

We had a pretty deep conversation (for us, anyway) last Wednesday........... He also told me that HE WANTS TO GO TO IC! ........... OK, I'm being his secretary again, but I really don't mind doing this one.

Maybe we're getting somewhere.

It could help. Will if he wants it to. People can change, and we hope he does.


I wanted to post again to answer some of your questions.


Healthwise, I am very much better. Thank you.

Your mom worries too much. I just thought I would help her out a little.

As for my finger, ............ I STILL have to be careful with my finger, I really wonder. Oh well, it's too late now to do anything about it. At least it's not crooked.

OK, time for the lecture about health.
Just kidding, you already know it, and you will do better next time, won't you?
Please?


I wasn't going to go to the Dr. either when I was sick. I thought, "it's just the flu." But then after I had a fever 6 days straight, I thought, "maybe I better go."

I guess I don't like going to the Dr. I guess I take after my grandmother. She (no joke) literally chopped off the tip of her finger and never went to the doctor. Her finger healed just fine. Now does that make us tough, or crazy?

I got (what you had, I think) in Nov., and I went to the Dr. The girl at the desk said "it has been too long since you were in, we have archived your records, so you are being treated as a new patient. Please fill out these forms, etc, etc."

My wife's rule is that if you miss work more than two days, you have to go to the DOC on the third day. I'd threaten you, but it wouldn't do any good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So now you have a little more insight into my family. (this was my mother's mother, BTW) Shoot, look at the example that was set for me! How can I go the Dr for my little ol' sore finger!

I think it was broken. I think you need to repent, and change your ways !
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
Mostly, I want you to be healthy, and not loose the use of important things like your finger. You must continue to do what you think best, but please consider my the two day rule in the future.


You're supposed to be giving me all of the answers!

But I'm a guy, remember. We are clueless - at least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Really, if you can think about the questions, it should help you know how you want to do things.


But seriously, a lot of it doesn't make much sense to me either. I wonder if he is just very confused (mid life crisis?) I pray that counseling will help him - even if things don't work out between us.

People who are "just very confused" don't hide things like he has done. They question themselves, and what they are doing. He was pretty sure of himself if I read the story the right way.
I admire your love for him, and the way you care. I wish he would show the same care and concern back to you. Let's see -


I don't know if there's much of a cultural difference in this. I don't know if it's normal. I never spoke up about wanting to go or not, I just secretly hoped that he would have wanted me to go. I am also getting a lot of flack for letting him go for such a long time. (from my mother and my friend/co-worker) Based on the fact that he didn't want to spend Thanksgiving or Christmas w/me and then he takes off for 4 1/2 weeks to spend time with his family.

Well, to be honest, this is a tell tale sign. He can't spare a few days at thanksgiving, but now has a month?

If it was really a life and death thing at work for those days, his mind would work differently. He would be saying "I am so sorry I can't go now, but we can go a week or something in Feb. when I am not so busy."

Notice that he did not do anything like that, and when he did get time off, he left your side for a month. I am not trying to give you "flack." This is a big thing to me, I believe it should be to you also. I love time with my family, but my W comes first.
We can't read his mind, and we don't know his reasons, but the behavior it's self is a sign that his heart is not in the marriage. It is a measure of how committed he is to you.

Not to mention all of the $$$ involved. I was told that if it were them, they wouldn't put up with it.

I don't even know how I feel about it. I suppose maybe I should be upset. I don't know. Am I being a doormat? He's down there with his family, and I am at home working, taking care of everything, and trying to figure out how he can spend all that he needs to spend for this trip while staying in our budget (I made a budget for us at the beginning of the year) and still save $$$. So basically, I'm at home trying to sacrifice and save $$$ so he can spend it!

I see marriage as a partnership. We can, and we do sacrifice for the other sometimes. A few years ago, my oldest brother called me up, and told me he was putting together a trip for my Dad to Alaska fishing. This is something Dad has always wanted to do. Older brother said he wanted all the brothers to go, as dad isn't getting any younger, and this was probably a one time thing. My W helped me do it, and supported me in going. It was only a 5 day trip though, not more than a month. Last year, my W wanted to do a trip with her mother to see her sister that lives a distance away. They wanted to drive and see the sights. She was gone ten days, and I supported her in going.

The thing is, do you feel supported, like you are supporting him? Perhaps he sees himself as giving support by letting you go for visits on Thanksgiving, and Christmas. I would imagine his expenses are higher, and his missing work makes it even worse. In other words, it probably doesn't balance very well. Your friends and family love you, and want to protect you, but you need to examine your feelings and see if you feel things are OK. I trust your feelings in this. If you are doing the sacrificing, and he is doing the spending, I wouldn't think it was the right kind of marriage partnership.


My mother was doing much better than I (or she) expected on that day. Thanks for asking. As for me, in general, I am just OK.

I am glad your mother is/was doing well. AS for you being just OK........

What would it take for you to be doing really well?

I DO NOT mean things like wealth, and fame. I don't think you would list then anyway, but wanted to be clear on the direction I was going. What changes would make the difference for you?

And finally

I'm taking things day by day. I have no special plans, unfortunately. It's much different now compared to my official plan B time. I had more energy and plans then, for some reason.

I'm curious to see what kind of list you would come up with of things I need to be doing! Bring it on!

I encourage you to make plans.

Not sure if your girlfriend at work is married, and what kind of time she has, but spending an evening with her OUT would be on the list if it would work.

Since time is short (the 13 !!! ) I will limit this to things you can do with almost no planning.
If you still had three weeks, I would probably do this different.

Read the bible.
I can tell you from personal experience that it will help. I promise you it will. Even a few minutes can be helpful, but a good hour will work wonders. Thumb through the pages, you'll find the right place to start.

Take a walk.
Again, a good hour will help get the kinks out, and give you enough time to think. I prefer seeing you walk somewhere where you don't have to worry about traffic, or bumping in to people (crowds.) It needs to be long enough for your mind to start to wander. Let it wander, it knows where to go.

Take a long hot bath.
If you have done it before, you know why I listed it. If not, I think it's about time to learn.

Visit the library
Walk up and down the rows. Some thoughts will strike you -
Take your time, no need to hurry. So many interesting things to learn, so little time. Pick something - light enough to be fun, serious enough to engage your mind.

Remember who you are
You are a daughter of God. Remember?
He made you to be happy, his work is to bring that happiness about. Sure we are tested. Yes, life is full of troubles, but his plan for you, is for you to find a fullness of joy. Don't be afraid to look for it.

There are more, but that's all my time, and you only have until Sunday anyway.

OK, I'm done with my post. SS, you probably got much more info than you really needed. Thanks for reading.

You are an interesting person. I have never felt bored here, nor have I felt you ever wasted my time. Your mother agrees with me.

SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Well, my H is back from his trip. I picked him up midday yesterday from the airport. He is being sweet as can be. He came bearing all kinds of gifts from him and his family.

Today he is off from work. He does not go back to work until tomorrow - just as I suspected.

I have the GPS system in the back seat of his car.

Jlseagull, the GPS device is amazing. I tested it last week. I put it in its hiding place and drove out to the bank one night. I later downloaded the info and PRESTO! I got a map of where I went and the route I took. I can also print out a report. It shows the starting address (approximately) and time. It also shows the ending address and time. It also shows the stops along the way.

I thought he would take one of his trips this afternoon. But he threw me off. He volunteered to drive me to work this morning. That involves driving 23.5 miles into the city in rush hour traffic. I suspect that he might have gone where he normally goes after he dropped me off. (I already suspect that he goes somewhere not far from my workplace). However, if he goes in the morning, that kind of rules out any theories that he might be going to a bar. He was also scruffy this morning. He didn't shave and just threw on some jogging pants and a t-shirt. Nothing I would imagine that he would wear for a secret rendezvous - unless they go to the gym together!

He did tell me that he was going to the gym today, but we have a gym in our apartment complex, so that's where I assume he goes.

So now I'm a little confused. Maybe I am just CRAZY and imagining all sorts of things.

ANYWAY, my GPS device should tell me where he went and for how long. If he went straight home, then that's just wonderful.

So here's my question. Should I remove the GPS device tonight and check out where he went? I wouldn't be able to download anything until tomorrow at work. I thought it was too risky to install the software on my home computer.
I was planning on leaving the device in the car all week, but I'm dying to find out where he went today. I will just have to leave tonight with his car to go to the store or somewhere and remove the device there. I wouldn't want him to catch me at home.

THEN, if tomorrow I find that he went somewhere, what do I do? Hold it in and then stake out the area on one of his other days off? Or should I confront him? I don't think I could confront him right away without letting him know about the GPS device. But I don't know how long I could hold this in.

I'd appreciate any advice on this.

Hi svb,

You will have to let me know what kind of GPS and where you got it and about how much you spent....

About confronting, *jumping up and screaming , "NOOOO, WAIT"..* DO NOT confront until you have all, and I mean ALL, your ducks in a row!!! That is my Not-So-Humble Opinion. THIS is the reason that I still do not know for sure about my H's A (although I do, he just won't admit). I confronted with the second digital recording from his car, and it was the first clear one!!! I am NOT a patient person, and not usually a CA, grab the bull by the horns, that's my motto! Well, svb, in this case, let the bull trap himself and avoid getting gored!!!!

IF he is doing something wrong (and it DOES sound very suspicious, although I don't know the whole story), you must, MUST, be patient. And boy do I know how hard this is. Fine, take it out and download it, if you must, but put it right back and DO NOT confront.

Did I say Do NOT confront? Was I clear about that??

jls

svb1,

Hi, I'm new on your thread.

I think you need to keep your H in the dark as to your methods. He never has to know how you know. You don't have to prove anything to him.

I think it's a good thing to look at the "data" while he's not around. It might be upsetting, and you'll need a bit of time to calm yourself. It's a pity you have to take the thing out of service for a day just to download the data. Can you hide the SW on your home computer?

...yeah, I've got one too - a WS and one of those "thingies" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-AD

I left the GPS device in the car. I found out that after today, H will be working overnight for 1 week. That means he'll be free every day during the day. I figured I would just leave it in the car for the whole time -- although I am dying to find out where he went yesterday after he dropped me off.

I guess it's for the best right now anyway. At least I won't have to worry about breaking down and confronting him for another week yet. I'm safe for a while.

I do know that he definitely went somewhere yesterday. My trusted ole' voice activated recorder told me that he didn't get home until somewhere between 12 and 12:30. He left me at 8:30 in the morning. Then, when he got home, he started washing his clothes - but he already did all of his laundry the day before. He even washed his shoes yesterday, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

jls, I bought a LandAirSea 3100-INTB GPS device. It can be used either inside the vehicle or outside. I paid $295 at the time at this website - http://www.rockymountaintracking.com/
You can also find it, of course, at this website http://www.landairsea.com/products/3100.html, but it's more expensive. You might be able to do some research and find it even cheaper - through ebay, maybe.

AD, thanks for posting. I hope that I never have to let him know HOW I got my information. Or at least I hope that it never eventually slips out!
I know how much he'll push for proof if I ever have to confront him! I would love to put the software on my computer at home. I'm not that great with computers, (but better than H!) and I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to hide all of the icons or other traces of the software being installed.

And as for this...

...yeah, I've got one too - a WS and one of those "thingies"

I'm sorry that you find yourself in the same situation and having to have either one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I keep wondering about the GPS.

If it does show he is making long trips, and you bring it up, and he says something like "I was just visiting a friend from work."

What would that get you? He is very good at coming up with "reasons."

It would be nice to figure out how to word the conversation so that:

1. It doesn't sound like you are checking on him in the first place.

2. Your comment or question can't be evaded with generalities.

I am interrested to know how you feel about his homecoming.

Were you relieved to see him?

Happy?

Mixed feelings?

Afraid of what might happen?

I suppose husbands bearing gifts are always nice, but tell me about your feelings before he came home, and your feelings about being with him now that he is here.

I hope you are doing well personally. Lots of things in life can get to us, and you have had your share of rough times lately.

SS

SS,

Let’s see, where do I even begin?

I am interrested to know how you feel about his homecoming.
Were you relieved to see him?
Mixed feelings?
Happy?
Afraid of what might happen?
…but tell me about your feelings before he came home, and your feelings about being with him now that he is here.

I definitely have mixed feelings about his homecoming.

I guess it’s like you said, “They say you are done when you no longer miss him, and are relieved that you don't have to deal with him/his behavior.” Maybe I am almost done with him?

This is what really makes me sad. The past year has really opened my eyes and changed me forever. I feel as if nothing will ever be the same again with us. I will never look at him again through the same eyes as I used to see him. Even though he is being very sweet right now – it just doesn’t feel right. He acts as if he really cares about me right now. He talks to me more and is more open. It should feel right, but it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just ME that is different. I guess I just don’t believe it in my heart. Plus, I am always waiting for that other shoe to drop when he behaves this way. Maybe I've lost hope?

It might be different if he had admitted to any wrongdoing. I could possibly forgive him and try to move on together. But the fact that he lied and keeps lying to me makes me wonder what kind of M we really have. I keep wondering how many of our 10 married years together has he been lying to me like this? At what point in our M did he turn away forever? Or has he always been like this?

I am really beginning to think that he never really loved me, at least not nearly as much as I have always loved him. I think that he settled when he married me. I think that I was a way for him to stay in this country and lead a half way decent life. Yeah, maybe he cared about me to a degree, but I was never his true love like he was mine.

Keep in mind that:
1. He doesn't tell you that he goes places
2. He denies it when you bring it up, and if pinned down, he is vague, and tried to make you feel like you are crazy. (and don’t forget that sometimes he gets REALLY angry, too)

This is not someone that is putting their marriage, and their spouse first. If you do confront him, and he does the same, remember this behavior means something all by it self - regardless of what he is really doing.

I don’t know if I can go on with him if I can’t trust him. Somehow, I don’t think he will ever change. I know he is planning on going to IC, but I really believe that it is for his own personal reasons – stress at work, family issues, etc. – and not with any intention of bettering our M. For his sake, yes, I am very happy that he is going. But he is still not interested in MC. He wants to continue to pretend that nothing is wrong. But I can’t keep pretending that everything is ok.

My #1 need is openness and honesty. I can’t imagine that I will ever get that from him 100%. He doesn’t even care that that’s my #1 need.

I think the GPS will just give me more proof of what I already know - that he keeps hiding something from me. At least I will have a better idea of where he goes. But maybe now it doesn’t matter what the secret is. (I think you said this to me before) Maybe the more important point is that he HAS a secret and keeps lying to me and that he will never tell me the truth.

The GPS results might help me decide for sure that I want to leave. I will then just need the courage to do it. I don’t think that plan Aing or plan Bing will do any good anymore. (or will it?) I also think that I have stayed in my M much longer than many would have. My friend here tells me that she would have been LONG gone. Maybe it’s time to move on. I still have my doubts about leaving my M – that marriages are supposed to be forever- but maybe I’ll just have to get over those doubts.

I would be very happy to find out that my GPS device tells me that he went straight home on Monday and went to our gym before getting home. My friend was suggesting that if that is what I find, maybe I can forget about spying on my H forever and move on with our lives together. She says that I am driving myself crazy. But I think we both know that the results will more likely be different. I’m thinking about downloading my GPS information on Saturday. I’ll take it out while my H is sleeping during the day and then come in to work to get the info.

You asked me,

What would it take for you to be doing really well?
I DO NOT mean things like wealth, and fame. I don't think you would list then anyway, but wanted to be clear on the direction I was going. What changes would make the difference for you?

I would really like for my H to be really truthful with me. I would love to learn that my H really loves me. That would make a difference for me.

<small>[ March 17, 2005, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

Hi svb,

God, when i read your posts, I feel like I could have wrote them almost word for word!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I don’t know if I can go on with him if I can’t trust him. Somehow, I don’t think he will ever change. I know he is planning on going to IC, but I really believe that it is for his own personal reasons – stress at work, family issues, etc. – and not with any intention of bettering our M. For his sake, yes, I am very happy that he is going. But he is still not interested in MC. He wants to continue to pretend that nothing is wrong. But I can’t keep pretending that everything is ok.

My #1 need is openness and honesty. I can’t imagine that I will ever get that from him 100%. He doesn’t even care that that’s my #1 need.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is SO MUCH like me and H!!

He did go to IC, to placate me. I really don't think that he derived anything from it. Maybe a DJ, but that is what I think, from our conversations about it and knowing hi like i do.

I worry that you won't find out anything from the GPS. And then what?! Maybe you will feel better, i don't know. But, I have spied, and got no results at times. It helped some, but my non-trust in him came back, because of all the lies and such.


I really wish you all the best.

jls

sorry,my bad, double post

<small>[ March 18, 2005, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: jlseagull ]</small>