Here's another update....

I am NOT CRAZY!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just downloaded the information from the GPS device. It told me just what I suspected. My H dropped me off at work on Monday morning and drove to another part of the city and stayed there for 3 hours!!! Exactly where I thought I saw his car parked months ago when co-workers and I were driving back to work from a late lunch on one of his days off.

I repeat --- I am not crazy!!! I am not crazy!!! I know I should be upset, but somehow I feel relieved? Is that weird, or what? I really thought I might have been losing it when I thought I saw his car in the city that one time. I thought, "am I going to think that I see his car everywhere now?" I mean, what are the chances? There are MILLIONS of people in this city! But, it made sense to me, somehow. The miles to that spot are exactly correct. 48 miles round trip. And the first 3 letters of the license plate matched -- that was all I could see.

My gut has always been right.

I just can't help wondering, though, what is at that spot for him, and how long has he been going there? It could have been way longer than for the past year to year-and-a-half.

So what do I do now? I can possibly stake out that spot on one of his days off to see where he goes after he parks.

I can't, and won't, mention anything about this to my H yet. But it helps me to really consider leaving my H. I mean, how can he keep doing this? He is being super sweet to me, yet he keeps this secret! It makes me ill to think that he acted as if he were super-husband by driving me in to work on Monday morning "just because." He left out the REAL reason he wanted to come to the city. How can he be sweet to me and keep that secret from me?? Doesn't it eat him up inside? I know it would eat ME up inside-- I couldn't do it!
And what he's doing has got to be bad, otherwise he would tell me. There's a gym near the spot where he goes. There's a large apartment building (many, actually), and, not far, there's a bridge and stairs going down to a river with a walking/biking trail next to it. If he's going to the gym, or walking along the river, there's no need to hide that from me!

Would another plan B get him to tell me where he's going? He would just lie again --- like you said SS. I would much rather have him tell me the truth and then work on our M together, but I don't think that will ever happen. Maybe I should just leave. But what would I tell him? That I know that he's keeping a secret from me? That I know that he goes into the city? That I'm tired of the lies? And if he denies it say, "it doesn't matter what you say -- I know the truth." ???

I want to move back to Chicago, but I don't want to quit my job. I will if I have to, though. I'm thinking of talking to my boss and asking if I can transfer. Our main manufacturing facility is closer to Chicago, and a lot of my co-workers that I deal with regularly work there. I'm sure I can do my same job at that location. From there, I can easily go to Chicago to see my family on the weekends.

Hmmmmm. I have a lot to think about.

It felt really great getting this off my chest.
Thanks for reading.

I'd appreciate any input.

<small>[ March 19, 2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

HEY,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I am NOT CRAZY!!!!!!

I just downloaded the information from the GPS device. It told me just what I suspected. My H dropped me off at work on Monday morning and drove to another part of the city and stayed there for 3 hours!!! Exactly where I thought I saw his car parked months ago when co-workers and I were driving back to work from a late lunch on one of his days off.

I repeat --- I am not crazy!!! I am not crazy!!! I know I should be upset, but somehow I feel relieved? Is that weird, or what? I really thought I might have been losing it when I thought I saw his car in the city that one time. I thought, "am I going to think that I see his car everywhere now?" I mean, what are the chances? There are MILLIONS of people in this city!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so glad that you found out SOMETHING. And i really didn't think that you were crazy!! I don't blame you for feeling relieved. I am actually JEALOUS that you found something (doesn't that sound plain wrong).

Now, I wish i had some sage advice. I think that you will have to find out MORE, doesn't that suck?! What if you confronted, with a picture of his car there, then what? He would just make up some excuse, and you would be right back, well maybe at square two. You will need more info, I think, or you may still think (later) that you jumped the gun.

I know what you mean about actin like the great H while taking you to work, when he actually had an ulterior motive!

Good luck STILL (maybe a PI now, or stakeout by you and/or friends in diff. car)!!

I will check backwhen i get back from my trip on Wednesday.

jls

hon,

Since your H is not forthcoming with the information, kind of 'lying by omission', and if you have the money, perhaps now is the time to hire a PI. You have done a lot of the leg work, so it might not be as expensive in the case that you knew nothing. I think it should be fairly easy at this point to find out what is up, as you have done a lot of work yourself.

You could do a stake out, but you might get caught.

Don't make any major decisions about transfering/moving, etc, until you know the truth.

Isn't it nice to know you aren't crazy?

{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}} <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know you need them now.

God bless and good luck.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hello S,

Let’s see, where do I even begin?

It hurts to read this one. Often I wish we could help more than we do. Also that you could get more replies when you hurt the most, and need someone to talk to. I hope you can talk to your friend, and your mother, and I hope you do.


I definitely have mixed feelings about his homecoming.

I guess it’s like you said, “They say you are done when you no longer miss him, and are relieved that you don't have to deal with him/his behavior.” Maybe I am almost done with him?

This is a question that I cannot answer. Once I told you what I thought about D. I think a great many people file all to soon, and get a D too easily. I also think there are some that wait too long, and prolong the agony.

It is difficult to know where YOU are. We sorrow for your pain - the pain you feel from not knowing, and also the pain and heart ache of not being able to share your heart with someone.

This is what really makes me sad. The past year has really opened my eyes and changed me forever. I feel as if nothing will ever be the same again with us. I will never look at him again through the same eyes as I used to see him. Even though he is being very sweet right now – it just doesn’t feel right. He acts as if he really cares about me right now. He talks to me more and is more open. It should feel right, but it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just ME that is different.

Again, it's something we would have a hard time knowing. He still keeps secrets. He acts loving, and talks more. Which is the real him?

Perhaps YOU have changed some also. I suppose it would be nearly impossible for you to have NOT changed. Kind of a lost innocence, I don't have the words to express my regrets for what has happened.

I guess I just don’t believe it in my heart. Plus, I am always waiting for that other shoe to drop when he behaves this way. Maybe I've lost hope?

With your feelings, it will be hard to recover even if he wants to make it work. I know it would be hard, but perhaps it is time to broach the subject of MC again?

"There have been so many things happen to us this last year, it has affected my feelings for you. I would like to see us work with a good MC to strengthen our marriage, and make it into what we both want from it. Would you be willing to do that with me?"

Something like that?

It might be different if he had admitted to any wrongdoing. I could possibly forgive him and try to move on together. But the fact that he lied and keeps lying to me makes me wonder what kind of M we really have. I keep wondering how many of our 10 married years together has he been lying to me like this? At what point in our M did he turn away forever? Or has he always been like this?

Again, it is hard to know from this end. I realize you are speaking more for yourself, from a heart that is sometimes breaking. I wish I had these answers, but I do believe you can get them from God. I have a request for you, you make think it odd. Will you read the book of Esther (0ld testment,) and come back and talk to me about some things?

I am really beginning to think that he never really loved me, at least not nearly as much as I have always loved him. I think that he settled when he married me. I think that I was a way for him to stay in this country and lead a half way decent life. Yeah, maybe he cared about me to a degree, but I was never his true love like he was mine.

This would be difficlut to cope with. I have prayed at length for you to be comforted, I hope you feel Gods's love. I tend to think early on he did have those feelings that you have for him. He wanted children with you..........that SEEMS to show he wanted the same kind of marriage you wanted. What concerns me is how did he get from there, to where he is now?


I don’t know if I can go on with him if I can’t trust him. Somehow, I don’t think he will ever change.

Where does he go? What does he do?
Wish you knew. I think that makes a lot of us that wished we knew. Personally, I couldn't go on with someone that I could not trust on such a basic level, with such important things.

I know he is planning on going to IC, but I really believe that it is for his own personal reasons – stress at work, family issues, etc. – and not with any intention of bettering our M. For his sake, yes, I am very happy that he is going. But he is still not interested in MC. He wants to continue to pretend that nothing is wrong. But I can’t keep pretending that everything is ok.

You say he is "still not interrested in MC." Have you already spoken to him about it in the last few months?

When you (or should I say IF?) talk to him about your feelings, what is saying?

I agree you can't pretend everything is OK when you know it is not OK. It will destroy your self esteem over time if you ignore the problem.
UNLESS - unless it is slowly getting better, and you can measure the improvement.


My #1 need is openness and honesty. I can’t imagine that I will ever get that from him 100%. He doesn’t even care that that’s my #1 need.

For a marriage to succeed, both must care about meeting the others needs. When you love someone, you care about their feelings, and their happiness. Even if it's difficult to change habits, you care, and you try.

I think the GPS will just give me more proof of what I already know - that he keeps hiding something from me. At least I will have a better idea of where he goes. But maybe now it doesn’t matter what the secret is. (I think you said this to me before) Maybe the more important point is that he HAS a secret and keeps lying to me and that he will never tell me the truth.

I did say it before. If a spouse keeps secrets, does it matter what the secret is? Or is it just as telling that the secrets exist in the first place? LIR said once that she wanted you to KNOW, but I don't see how you can, unless you install a camera in the location he visits and record all that he does. If was another girl, and you could watch them walking down the street holding hands, you would know, but if it is what you think it may be, he can just continue to say he visits friends from work, and you wouldn't know the truth. Soneone (here on MB) once said that "people only keep secrets if they have something to hide."

I tend to agree with that.

The GPS results might help me decide for sure that I want to leave. I will then just need the courage to do it. I don’t think that plan Aing or plan Bing will do any good anymore. (or will it?)

I still think you should call (MB) for another appointment. This is one of the steps you will need to take in any case for your peace of mind.

To address your other comment - it will take a great deal of courage. I believe you have whatever it takes.

I also think that I have stayed in my M much longer than many would have. My friend here tells me that she would have been LONG gone. Maybe it’s time to move on. I still have my doubts about leaving my M – that marriages are supposed to be forever- but maybe I’ll just have to get over those doubts.

It is easy for both your friend, and I to say "I would never stand for this, I would get a D." The bottom line is that we are not living what you are living, and talk is cheap.

Marriages ARE supposed to be forever. Love is supposed to be forever, committment is supposed to be forever. So is honesty, faithfulness, and trust. It is hard to have the marriage be forever, without the honesty going on with it. How can it?

I would love to learn that my H really loves me. That would make a difference for me.

How would you measure that? Describe his actions that would communitate this to you.

Here's another update....

I am NOT CRAZY!!!!!!

We never thought you were. Did you? If so, I need to talk to your mom again, and she needs to beat you more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


My gut has always been right.

We believed you since you first came here, but we realized that most WS's don't come clean when the BS relates gut feelings witn no proof. IN the case of your H, he hasn't been willing to come clean even with proof. That bothers me. (massive understatement.)

I just can't help wondering, though, what is at that spot for him, and how long has he been going there? It could have been way longer than for the past year to year-and-a-half.

As has been said, you could hire a PI.

So what do I do now? I can possibly stake out that spot on one of his days off to see where he goes after he parks.

Even if you see where he goes to, if it is an apartment, and a guy lives there, you won't be sure. On the other hand, if it is a gym, or a wine store or something, you would be relieved. But, why would he hide somethig that was innocent?

It makes me ill to think that he acted as if he were super-husband by driving me in to work on Monday morning "just because." He left out the REAL reason he wanted to come to the city. How can he be sweet to me and keep that secret from me?? Doesn't it eat him up inside? I know it would eat ME up inside-- I couldn't do it!

It worries me that he can ACT so nice, and be hiding things. Especially when you say he gets angry sometimes. Is he the type that can compartmentalize things so well that he can actually care for you the same time he is doing other thing to hurt you? Do you have enough of a track record to know?

For the record, I don't think I could do it either, I know you couldn't. (Your mom told me so herself.)

And what he's doing has got to be bad, otherwise he would tell me.

Agreed.

Would another plan B get him to tell me where he's going? He would just lie again --- like you said SS. I would much rather have him tell me the truth and then work on our M together, but I don't think that will ever happen.

By now, you would be tired of wondering. It is natural.
I wonder why he is nice to you. Is he biding his time until he has his ducks in a row? Is he really trying to make the marriage better. Did your plan B scare him and make him realize he loves you? Or did he get scared you would leave before he is ready? I have no answer. There is only one place you can get a sure answer to this one.

Maybe I should just leave. But what would I tell him? That I know that he's keeping a secret from me? That I know that he goes into the city? That I'm tired of the lies? And if he denies it say, "it doesn't matter what you say -- I know the truth." ???

I don't know if I ought to make suggestions for this one of not. If knowing what to tell HIM is a problem, you are not ready to quit yet.
Um, that's a personal judgement - and I am not a pro. I'll leave it for now though.


Hmmmmm. I have a lot to think about.

You still have time. This isn't something that should be rushed.

It felt really great getting this off my chest.

You have been keeping a lot in. I hope you are doing better now than when you were writing your post. I could tell it was hard for you.


I'd appreciate any input.

I really like mexican food, in fact, I like almost everything.

Oh, wait. You meant input about your situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Laugh, see if it helps.

Read that reference, and come back and talk some more.

SS

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

I'm having a small anxiety attack here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I've just listened to one of my recordings of my H during the day last week (Tuesday). He talked to his mother, his favorite sister and one of his friends. It has been a long time since I've heard him mention anything about our R to his family. He actually didn't say anything to his mother or sister (except that he told his sister that I gained weight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) when she asked about me).

He spent quite a while talking to his friend who moved to Miami recently ( my H helped him move in). My H told him that he would LOVE to be able to go down to FLA to live. But he said that he's waiting to see if he gets this job opening stores - then it doesn't matter where he lives. Plus he's not sure what kind of job that I would find down there. He told his friend that he might go down to visit this summer with me. THEN he said to his friend, "Now this is between you and me. Things aren't going very well between me and S, so I just might be going to live with you by myself at some point. Keep a room for me there just in case. You never know. Keep in mind I would travel for business 6 weeks at a time and then be off for two weeks. I'd hardly ever be there - and when I'm not away for work I'll spend ALL my time at the beach!"

I'm feeling heartbroken again. He's at least been acting like he's happier with me lately. He's a good actor. It's also been a long while since I've heard anything like this.

Today's a rotten day.

OK done with my vent.

<small>[ March 22, 2005, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: svb1 ]</small>

He sounds more and more like someone that plays everything just right to get what he wants. I can see why you hurt.

Remember God loves you. This is not abstract love, you should be able to feel it often. I don't know what is going to happen. I do know you can still be happy. Hold on to that, it's real.

Often it's hard to know the right words. How can you take something that hurts so much, and make it better?

Realize we are thinking of you, and that we care.

SS - struggeling for the right words.

HI S !!

People are thinking about you. Hope you are doing well.

At least somewhat well?

Mostly well?

Fairly well?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

SS

Hi from me too. And Hi to you SS. You are a great ear, I've noticed from reading your convos with svb.

Well, SVB, I got back from NYC and the boards were down. I was wondering if you found anything else out.

Hope to hear from you soon. Saw your thread was bumped and jumped on for the ride.

Oh, and thanks for your reply on my thread, just read it today!!

jls

Hello SS and JLS. Thanks for thinking about me.

I'm not doing so well, unfortunately.

First of all, yesterday was H's day off. He didn't go anywhere according to my voice activated recorder. I can't get confirmation from my GPS device, however, because H's car is being repaired. He was in a fender bender on Monday. He was rear-ended at a red light and hit the car in front of him in turn. He's ok, and everyone else is ok. The car is not. This is not why I'm upset, however. These things happen, the car is just a car and we have insurance, and H is ok. (and I have worse things to worry about)

I am upset about what else I heard on the VAC yesterday. He talked to one of his sisters and later, her husband. He informed them that we are both now in IC. (It's true - H started last week, and I started last night) He told his brother in law that the reason he is in IC is because he wants to be alone. He doesn't know how to go about it and he wants to learn how to go about it and set himself up independently. He wants to know how to know if he's made the right decision. He also told his BIL that he's going to IC to get ME to go to IC, really. He doesn't think that I'd go if he didn't go, too. He said he's playing a trick on me.

I feel that I'm done. I'm tempted to talk to him ASAP to let him know that I KNOW that he no longer wants to be married and that we should just end it. (I won't let him know how I know for sure). It's not fair to me for him to string me along. I'm 35 and I also need to move on in my life. We can sit down and discuss how we want to divide up our assets.

I'm tired. I'm emotionally exhausted. I can't fight for this M anymore. I just want to move on and heal and be happy. I feel that I will be wasting my time if I try to save our M anymore. He's just not in this and he doesn't care.

I only wonder how soon I should tell him. I'm dying to talk to him tonight. Is it too soon to say anything? Should I decide what my next move would be after we split up before I have my talk with him? Or should I just be as honest as possible and just dive in?

Hi S,
You sound sad.
Often it is, that I wish things were different for you.


I am upset about what else I heard on the VAC yesterday. He talked to one of his sisters and later, her husband. He informed them that we are both now in IC. (It's true - H started last week, and I started last night) He told his brother in law that the reason he is in IC is because he wants to be alone. He doesn't know how to go about it and he wants to learn how to go about it and set himself up independently. He wants to know how to know if he's made the right decision. He also told his BIL that he's going to IC to get ME to go to IC, really. He doesn't think that I'd go if he didn't go, too. He said he's playing a trick on me.

After reading - and getting to know both of you a little bit, I have some things to say about what is going on. This will be my opinion, and if you think I am all wrong, you can get a full refund of the cost of this visit.

I don't think he tells his family his true motives for things, but I think he does worry about how things "look" to others. It looks like he is setting you up, and saying in effect (to them) "this isn't working, I am doing IC for us, it will help her cope, I care about her feelings.......etc, etc, etc. "

I really don't understand his reasons, but the fact that he hides things won't let me trust him, or let me believe that he has any kind of GOOD reasons for what he is doing.

By that, I don't mean to say I think falling out of love, or not having common interest's is any reason to D, but I do mean many people honestly think that. I don't think he honestly thinks any thing like it, I think his motives are hidden, and I don't think he will ever admit what is really going on unless you have a covert film of every thing and he could get a lighter sentence for confessing the truth.

I keep wondering if he wants you to file, so he can claim innocence. You know him best, what do you think?

I feel that I'm done. I'm tempted to talk to him ASAP to let him know that I KNOW that he no longer wants to be married and that we should just end it. (I won't let him know how I know for sure). It's not fair to me for him to string me along. I'm 35 and I also need to move on in my life. We can sit down and discuss how we want to divide up our assets.

For you this will be very difficult emotionally. You will have 2nd, and third thoughts. I wonder if he will make a show of trying to talk you out of it at first. He strikes me as someone that could do even that. I hope I am wrong, but I type what comes to me.

You are right about the fairness of being strung along. You could simply say "It is plain that you are looking at us being apart. I think it is probably for the best, considering the way things are between us. Would you like to talk with me about separating our assets, and the details of the D, or were you going to get a lawyer? "

Something like that, neutral, with no details about what you know, or how you know. If he asks, just say words to the effect of: "What do you mean? It is pretty plain to me that you don't want the marriage long term, Do you want to work out the details or not? "

I'm tired. I'm emotionally exhausted. I can't fight for this M anymore. I just want to move on and heal and be happy. I feel that I will be wasting my time if I try to save our M anymore. He's just not in this and he doesn't care.

We want you to heal and be happy, as does your family. My big concern is always for the emotional and mental health of the people involved. Not that I think you are in danger of collapse - but this takes a toll on your health, and your happiness. Realize that this last sentence is a gross understatement - the cost can't be put into words. More than anything, I want you to KNOW that you are doing the right thing. The reason I asked you to read Esther from the OT, is that she is in a very bad spot too, and she took courage, and did the best she could with the little information she had. The bible talks sometimes about people fasting for increased spiritual guidance. Esther and her people used this aid to help them in their cause. I thought I would fast for you this last weekend, and went ahead with it, asking God to give you the help you need. It's easy to talk, and say you ought to do this, or that, but I wanted you to know people really care.

Once you look at all the facts, and make a decision, I recommend you take it to the Lord in prayer. Tell him what is going on, how you came to the conclusion you did, and ask him if it is right. If it is, you will know it. If it is not, you will know that too.

I only wonder how soon I should tell him. I'm dying to talk to him tonight. Is it too soon to say anything? Should I decide what my next move would be after we split up before I have my talk with him? Or should I just be as honest as possible and just dive in?

I think if I were doing it, I would put down on paper what I thought should happen. Make two outlines. One for your life, your plans. Do a timetable - be realistic about how soon you can move, how long it will take to get an answer back from your company about transferring, and now long it will take to do all your personal business.

Then do one for him -
How you think things should be split, when you think it should be started, and be final.

Once you have a realistic outline, talk to him using a similar approach to the above suggestions.

Now, if you want to just get it out in the open, you can start the talk tonight just to see if he agrees with you. If he says "yes, I think we should work on ending it." Or words to that effect, you can work up the details later.

AS I said earlier, he may stall, and say things like "WHAT?? I had no idea you felt this way, I need time to think about this shocking news."

If he says something like that, I think you can be sure (after the plan B experience) that he won't ever be truthful with you. In that case, you will probably need to file yourself. He may try to get you to do that, so you look like the "bad guy" to his family. Just keep these things in mind when you talk.

Now -
Now that we got through that part.

Know that you are not alone in the world.
Know that God is not some vague thought, he is real, and he loves YOU, and he will help YOU.
Know that he extends his care even now - I think you can feel it.

Yes, you are 35, but 35 is a good place to be. I turn 50 this year, and have twin girls 11 years old. There is time still for you, as long as God is helping. Ask him if he will help, I suspect I know what the answer will be. He will say "Of course I will help, what is it you want of me?"

I don't mean to make light of what is going on - but God can make good come of every trouble, if we look to him for help, and do what he wants us to do. Use the tools he has provided. Study it out in your mind, reach your own conclusion, take it to him for confirmation. Talk to your family for strength and support.

Last of all, believe in yourself. Don't doubt, be believing. If you do, all things will work together for your good, and you will find rest.

SS

Hi you guys,

svb, So glad to see you, but sorry about where you are and how you feel. Since we are at about the same time-frame, I want to put in my $0.02. But I really like reading what that SS guy has to say. He seems sooo darn smart, it's a little intimidating!!

I doo understand how you feel, as I was there myself just a few short weeks ago. My recent trip to NYC, with girlfriends and sans H and kids, was just what the Dr. ordered. I feel very refreshed and ready to start anew on M and life. BUT, I have kids. I can honestly not say what I would do if I had no children!!!

Whatever you do, Do it with integrity and the knowledge that you are as sure as you can be!!!

And if you ever move back ot Chi-town, let me know, I'm in the STL area.

jls

JL,
I am sorry I have not read your history, so I can't say much to you in the way of advice.

It looks like you care about others, and are a nice person, but that's about all I can say from what I have read so far.


Sorry you have to be here - but glad S has a friend like you. Both of you have a good evening.

SS

Jls,

I am happy that your trip to NYC did you good. If you feel refreshed and ready to work on your M, plan A your butt off!! Do the best you can, but still keep your eyes open.
Your situation is a little different from mine in that you DO have children. Also, your H has told you that he loves you (if I remember correctly) and mine never has. He would always tell me "I don't know" if I asked him. I've long since stopped asking. Plus, I only think that he told me "I don't know" because I don't think he wanted to tell me outright "no."

Also, if you try as hard and as long as you can to work on your M, you will feel at peace that you have always done the best that you can to save your M.

I know that this is a marriage saving website, and the last thing I want to do is to discourage someone from working on their M. I hope I'm not doing that.

Also, I will definitely let you know if I move back to Chicago. I'll keep you posted.

Regarding SS, isn't he the greatest? He's been a Godsend to me.

SS,

Words can't even express my appreciation for you over the past months. It just blew me away when I read that you fasted for me this past weekend. I honestly believed that it worked. I feel more clarity and peace right now.

I did read Esther as you suggested. I used to read the Bible very regularly in the past. It brought me much comfort. Somehow, I got away from it, and I'm not sure why. I will definitely be getting back in the habit. (but not like the movie - remember - Sister Act 2: back in the habit?)

I also prayed to God last night about making the right decision. I really feel at peace right now like you can't even imagine.

I didn't talk to my H last night. I didn't feel that it was the right time. My H had another IC appointment last night. He came home and he was in a good mood. He wants to go dancing tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Whatever.

He also came home, and pretty much ran upstairs and got on the phone in our bedroom (with the door closed). I'm sure he either called his favorite sister or his niece. I don't care. It just confirmed to me that we do not have a M as we should. Call it a sign, if you will. He should want to come home and share these things with me. I still felt/feel at peace.

I don't think I need a refund on your advice. I think you are right on target with your thoughts/suspicions.

1. I think he IS hiding his real motives for wanting to leave our M from his family. He DOES worry about what they think about him.

2. I DO believe that he will want me to file so that he can claim innocence. I will do it if it comes to that. He can claim whatever he wants. I know the truth deep down. You guys know the truth. GOD knows the truth. That's all that matters.

3. I DO believe that there is a strong possibility that he might try to talk me out of it at first. He would probably tell his family that he did that, too. It would make him look better. Plus, if he drags out our M any longer, he would be the only one benefitting from it. I think that he is still stringing this out until he finds out what is happening with him at work.

Do you have God whispering this stuff in your ear? I'm sure you must.

At this point, I don't really care what he is trying to hide or look like to his family. That is between him and his family and God now. I think I (we all) know enough about him and his actions. I feel that I am entitled to a D.

I think he is afraid that I might be bitter about everything if our M ends. I won't be. At least I'll try not to be. I'm going to let it all go. I won't wish him harm. He is going to be the one that has to live with himself and his actions and his conscience from now on. As I said before, it is between himself and God now.

I will move on and heal and be happy and be at PEACE.

Thanks,
svb

svb,

I hope that I didn't upset you. I never thought that you hadn't tried all that you could and could walk away with a clear mind that you have done so. (That is simply a personal worry of MINE for me, so I tend to project it.)

I know that this is MB, and I am not for divorce, but I am NOT for staying in unhappy /unfulfilling Ms. I struggle everyday with this (maybe it's me and my expectations, not him). I will be very happy for you when you find that peace!! You DO deserve it.

And I have to second your vote for SS being right on target. I like to think that I can read people, but he (SS) really has a grasp on analyzing and giving different perspectives.
--And i'm not just kissing but, SS-- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

jls

Hello jls,

You didn't upset me at all!! Don't worry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just don't want to upset or discourage YOU!!

I do feel at peace that I've done all that I can. I want YOU to feel at peace too. That's why I'm so glad that you've got a renewed energy to work on your M.

Take care and KEEP POSTING. Don't worry about posting even if no one replies to you. It always feels good to vent.

Yes svb,

IT DOES feel good to vent! And i joined Idiotville, fortunately or un-, I probably belong there!!

Thanks,
jls

Update .......

I had a talk with H on Saturday night. I let it all out. I told him that I think that it's time that we get a D. He really listened to me. (He even lowered the volume on the television) I think he was surprised that I brought it up. He didn't say anything. He only shook his head "no" at one point when I was was saying that I had a feeling that he was only sticking around to see what was going to happen to him at work. I only asked him one question - if he really loved me when he M me. He said , "Yes!" (but what else would he say?) I shouldn't even have asked. I couldn't help it, though.

Overall, though, he didn't really say anything. He didn't agree or disagree. He had a look of surprise - or maybe relief? on his face. I could only assume that, by his silence, he agreed with me.

I didn't bring it up on Sunday.

Last night, I started to talk to him about the details of splitting up. I went down a list of the things that we needed to do. (Do you realize that it only takes 30 DAYS to get a D after the papers are filed in PA?) He only said, "if this is what you want, what are you going to do?" I said that I would go to Chicago. I have nothing here for me in PA.
He said, "what about your IC?" I said that there are therapists in Chicago. He didn't say anything else.

Later on in the night, I asked him if, since he hadn't said anything to me one way or another, he agrees that this is what we should do. He said that he thought that I should finish my IC here before I make such big decisions.
(I think I failed to mention that I heard H tell his sister on the phone last week that he thinks that I am in TOTAL depression - I don't agree) I told him that there is nothing left for us to do - he doesn't want to talk about our problems, doesn't want to go to MC. I asked him if he saw a future for us. He said, "I don't know." (what a surprise).

Here's what I think -- he has no desire to continue our M, but somehow he wants to be sure that I am "fixed" before we split up. I suppose because then I can handle the world on my own??? I have news for him .... I don't NEEEED him. I'm sure that this is mostly a show for his family. Apparently they ALL know that we are in IC.

I don't have hope for us anymore. The only thing that gives me hope now is starting my life over in Chicago.

It's sometimes so hard to know what to say.

You have to feel so.........whats the word?
Helpless? Wishing things had been different, but knowing you have to go on and make big changes.

Helpless isn't it, but I can't come up with it.

Even when you know you are doing the right thing, the feelings are there. They change too - at least for me they do depending on how tired I am, and how healthy I am.

I have great faith in you. There is no worry about IF you can handle this, but only sadness that it has to be, and the knowledge that it isn't over yet, and the feelings will go round and round for still some time.

I agree with you that when someone loves you, they don't listen to you talk about getting a D, and say in effect "whatever."

I hope you talk often to your mother. She loves you deeply, and cares about your feelings and what happens to you.

After sitting here thinking, I need to comment on a little more than just this.

He really listened to me. (He even lowered the volume on the television)

Is this a sign of how he usually listens? Seldom lowers the volume?

It would be proper to turn the TV off, face you, and say "What's on your mind, and how can I help?"

Sometimes I hate the TV, but it's just a symptom, not the problem.

I think he was surprised that I brought it up. He didn't say anything. He only shook his head "no" at one point when I was was saying that I had a feeling that he was only sticking around to see what was going to happen to him at work.

Just for the record, I did not expect him to say "Yes, I am only here until I can decide what I want, then I was going to file anyway." That kind of answer would not be consistant at all with how he has communicated with you. Were I talking to you in person though, you would see me smile, because I think I would have done it much the same as you did.

My head knows that I should just leave some things alone, but my heart needs to get it out sometimes.

I only asked him one question - if he really loved me when he M me. He said , "Yes!" (but what else would he say?) I shouldn't even have asked. I couldn't help it, though.

Much the same, I think we are all wired this way. Sometimes we do have to ask.

For the record, I think he did love you when he married you. From the way you tell the story, I think both of you were very much in love.
There is too much that has happened, and too much time gone by for me to say what went wrong, but I think you have learned so much here that will help you in the future. I think you HAVE a future too - a happy one. I hope you have faith in that as much as I do.

Overall, though, he didn't really say anything. He didn't agree or disagree. He had a look of surprise - or maybe relief? on his face. I could only assume that, by his silence, he agreed with me.

He can still tell you if he wants to change things. We both doubt that he will.



Asking "what about your IC" means to me that he was setting it up as a show of care for you. To me it means his time table was to let you finish IC first. Understand I am only voicing my opinion, I can't read him mind, or see into his heart.

(I think I failed to mention that I heard H tell his sister on the phone last week that he thinks that I am in TOTAL depression - I don't agree) I told him that there is nothing left for us to do - he doesn't want to talk about our problems, doesn't want to go to MC. I asked him if he saw a future for us. He said, "I don't know." (what a surprise).

You (if you were in) total depression would fit with his wanting IC for you first, before anything else happens. It's like he has it all worked out, and now his plans are messed up.
Like: "Well, I she was totally depressed, I got IC for her, and tried to work it out, but nothing has changed, so I suppose I must look out for my future, and we are separating."

Something like that?


I have news for him .... I don't NEEEED him. I'm sure that this is mostly a show for his family. Apparently they ALL know that we are in IC.

I think you need to be away from him for 6 months or so to begin to be emotionally healthy again. I believe you will do well on your owm. What he was doing for so long was abuse, and it doesn't go away right away even if he stops doing the worst of it. The sins of comission may have stopped, but the sins of omission have continued - though I don't know exactly how the day to day life has been since the plan B ended. I would guess you have not felt loved as you have wished to be - as it should be.

I don't have hope for us anymore. The only thing that gives me hope now is starting my life over in Chicago.

Would you mind telling us your plans and dreams............especially the ones in your heart that you are afraid may never be.

I think you will have a much better chance of them happening if you will acknowledge them, and work for them to come true.

Please?

SS

PS, thanks both of you for your kind words, I always hope I am of some help.

Hello SS,

I've thought a lot about what you wrote. I think this post is going to be long. (as if I ever have short posts! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

You have to feel so.........whats the word?
Helpless? Wishing things had been different, but knowing you have to go on and make big changes.
Helpless isn't it, but I can't come up with it.

Yeah, I can't come up with a word either, but I know what you mean.

Is this a sign of how he usually listens? Seldom lowers the volume?

That's exactly how he listens. He actually NEVER lowers the volume. I always have to do it and usually he gets annoyed. That's why it seemed so odd to me when he turned down the volume --- WAY down.

Asking "what about your IC" means to me that he was setting it up as a show of care for you. To me it means his time table was to let you finish IC first. Understand I am only voicing my opinion, I can't read him mind, or see into his heart.

You (if you were in) total depression would fit with his wanting IC for you first, before anything else happens. It's like he has it all worked out, and now his plans are messed up.

Like: "Well, I she was totally depressed, I got IC for her, and tried to work it out, but nothing has changed, so I suppose I must look out for my future, and we are separating."

Something like that?

That's EXACTLY it. As a matter of fact, I think he mentioned something like that to his BIL. Something like, "I'll give it 2 or 3 months and then I'll say 'listen, this isn't working out - I am having too many stomache aches, you are having too many headaches - it is not healthy for us to be together.'"

I am definitely ruining his plan. HE has to be in control. I feel now that he is ignoring what I said and will still wait 2 or 3 months to let me know when HE thinks it's over. He STILL has to follow his plan.

Either way, it's going to be over. What difference does it make? I'd rather just end it right now. The sooner that I leave, the sooner I can heal and get on with my life. I was so excited when I found out that it only takes 30 days for a D to be final in PA - just over in NJ, you have to be legally separated for 18 months before you can even file!

I wrote him a check for him to use to open up his new bank accounts. He hasn't touched it. He was off on Tuesday, and he's off today, too. I know he won't do it.

He is not taking me seriously at all. I have never been more serious! Maybe I should just open my own account and close our joint account. He'll have no choice then.
He'll see how serious I am. AND I should just do the D paperwork ... like you said.

The sins of comission may have stopped, but the sins of omission have continued - though I don't know exactly how the day to day life has been since the plan B ended. I would guess you have not felt loved as you have wished to be - as it should be.

No, I don't feel loved -- not as I should in a M. He cannot and will not be open and honest with me. I don't trust him. He's not the man I M.

I've heard too many of his lies and secrets (via recorder). I am really done. I finally get it. I DO deserve more. I still feel clarity and peace. I'm ready to move on. If he really wanted to change things, he would - but he won't.

I feel SO different. I feel completely disconnected from him. I have no desire to talk to him about M issues or our future. I'm dead inside when it comes to him. I guess I have completely shut down in that area. That last conversation with his BIL just did it for me. He wants to be alone. OK that's it. I'm not going to try anymore. I don't WANT to try anymore.

I can see where he would think that I am depressed. I might be mildly depressed. (but I'm still on Lexapro) But I would think that if I were really depressed, I would have NO hope whatsoever about anything. I DO have hope. I have hope for MY OWN future. I really can't wait to start it now. I am certainly not suicidal. There's too much to do and see and learn in this lifetime! Now, come on, does that sound like a really depressed person to you!?

Ok now, since you asked .....

Would you mind telling us your plans and dreams............especially the ones in your heart that you are afraid may never be.

Here is what I've been thinking: (picture a dreamy look and a small smile on my face)

As you know, I want to move back to Chicago. I need to be near my family. I've given up the idea of transferring with my company to the manufacturing site nearer to Chicago. It's still too far away from my family.

There could be a chance that they'll let me work out of my home doing my same job -- all I need is a laptop and a phone. If not, it's no big deal. I'm not really in my chosen profession, anyway. (long story) I'd only hate to leave my company at this particular moment because I will have been with them for 5 years in September. Although I am vested in my 401K plan, I will not be vested in my pension plan until then.

Anyway, I would move to Chicago and stay with my mom until I find a new job (in my chosen profession). Then I would search for a home to BUY for myself. I've wasted so many years just renting. I want something of my own.

Yes, I would also like to find someone to share the rest of my life with -- someone who really loves me and is open and honest and faithful -- someone who wants a true partner in life. Yes, I would also like to have children, if possible. The thought of living my whole life and not having children does depress me a little. If I found the right man and had children, I would gladly give up my career until at least the youngest is in school, if not a little longer. (my mother did that). I figure that we would purchase a house together and I could rent out my townhouse (which is what I plan to buy).

If I don't find the right man and have children, that's ok, too. I can still be alone and be happy. I think I'd rather be alone and happy, than married and miserable at this point.

I think I'm officially done with school, after finishing my MBA, but I'd love to take classed here and there for fun. I'd like to learn more languages and travel as much as possible. I'd also love to stop this yo-yo weight thing and really get fit and healthy.

I think I'd also like to volunteer at a local animal shelter or the ZOO! Or Red Cross. I'm not sure yet.

Oh and I want a puppy. I jealous of JLS and would like to have all of her animals. I don't think my new townhouse complex would allow horses and goats, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

(BTW Lenny is doing just great. He's honkin huge nowadays. I upgraded his tank to a 10 gallon one. I also bought 2 new fish on Sunday. I don't have any names yet, though.)

OK, time to wake up now. I don't think that this is all that out of reach. See, nothing like ruling the world or anything like that. I just want it all NOW.

svb