I forgot to mention something. This will tell you exactly how seriously H is taking me.

He asked me last night,"don't you think that we need a lighter bedspread for the summer?"

???!!!???

I just looked at him at first. The look on my face was probably priceless. I just said, "we didn't have one last year."

Why on earth would he ask that?

I should have said, "didn't you hear a THING that I told you the other night?"

I've been bringing some empty boxes home from work. I've packed a few of them, too. I know he's seen the boxes, but he hasn't said anything about them. I'm also getting rid of/throwing out a lot of things I don't need any more. Some of it HE'S taken to the dumpster. Still, no word.

Hi svb,

Hee hee, "jealous of jls and all of her animals"!! You have NO idea... I was out chasing 2 horses today that got out of the arena (the gate wasn't latched and blew open) - THAT got my adrenalin pumping!! I am very tired, tended bar last nite and got to bed at around 4:30, up at 10:30,, cleaning stalls by 11:30, chasing horses by 2:00, picking up 7yo son at 3:00. Going to store now, for food and other sustenance (cheap Baileys for my coffee). Fed the goat, checked the chickens, cleaned the catlitter box (1 of them), folded a little laundry, straightened up---just a few "other" things I did today and this was a slow day, since I worked last nite. But I really do love it. And I get to go to a cheerleading meeting with my 14yo D tonite. No wonder i don't cook dinner enuf and my house is a "little" rough. LOL.

svb, I wish you ALL the best. If,or should i say when, you do get back to Chi-town, look me up in STL. I also have a cousin in Chicago and one in Springfield.

I am sorry that your H is not really hearing you. My H is often the same. I also think that they (men - sorry SS) often ignore what they don't want to deal with. Perhaps your H is really hoping that all will stay the same and he doesn't really want to D, the talk is really just talk. I'm just throwing stuff out there. My H will say something out of the blue sometimes, that really throws me. Like he was so worried the whole time I was in NYC, about us. I never would have guessed, he doesn't act that way.

I am sorry that you feel that D is your only (?) or best option right now. I can't blame you at all. I just don't know what people want from a relationship (like your H or mine).

Sending good vibes (and smelly animal ones too) your way,
jls

Hi jls.

I don't know, it all sound kind of rewarding/fulfilling to me! Did you get the feeling that your horses were lauging at you as you chased them around?

My H will say something out of the blue sometimes, that really throws me. Like he was so worried the whole time I was in NYC, about us. I never would have guessed, he doesn't act that way.

That sounds like a really good sign to me. Maybe that short time you were away got him thinking a little. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for me, I came home from work last night and found 2 dozen peach colored roses in a vase on the coffee table. H had a cup of tea waiting for me in the kitchen. He didn't see me find these things. He was actually walking out of the house when I walked in. He was going to the gym.

I don't know what to make of any of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
This is from someone who wants to be ALONE in life from now on.

Maybe this is just his way of getting me off-track and dragging out our M a little longer - not to save it, but till he's ready with his own plan to go. I'm still going to pack some more boxes this weekend.

svb

I notice that often I come by, see things are doing fine, so I don't worry - but, I fail to say I think things are going well.

I think things are going well.

As usual, I have hundreds of coments to make <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But, no time right now....... Be back later.

S,
What were your
1. First thoughts when you saw the roses.
2. Second thoughts -

JLS -

"Man should not live where dog does not bark, and horse does not neigh."
Old Jewish Proverb -


Sounds like you are living in the right place anyway.
Hope you have lots of good with the hard parts. It sure makes it easier.

SS

Hi SVB,

I've been following this thread for a while, but I'm not sure if I've responded to you. It kills me that you dont know exactly where he was going all this time, even with the GPS. For me, that would be too frustraiting not to know. I'm an incurable snoop!

Someone mentioned it earlier... He's got 'A Story' he's planning... setting up his family with the stories of you being depressed, etc. If he has his way, this is how it will play out:

'I tried. I got her to IC, but her problems were too big for us. I set her up nicely, left her has gently as I could. This is really hard for me. I wish her the best'. Then the family gathers around him, supports, and oh, the poor man. No mention of his withdrawl and trists, whatever they may be.

No one will believe you AFTER he's left you. Anything you say will just be considered retalitory.

I'd be very direct. 'You can get whatever kind of spread you want for your new place.' 'We are breaking up, please dont bring home flowers, I dont consider this a joyous occasion'.

He's got to reel you back in so he can dump you later, imho. You seemed to be getting some control back, dont let him run the show now just because he's throwing out a few crumbs. This isnt reconsilation he's offering you, it's appeasement. What do you think?

Be careful and stay strong - Dru

Y'know svb,
I try to stay positive, but I have to agree with Drucilla on that one. Be direct, and it is appeasement, not recovery he seems to be aiming at. My H does this too, as much as I have tried to explain to him. I will be very upset after a "disagreement" or serious discussion about what I think our probs are, or what needs are not being met. He will then, often, get up the next morning early and do a very nice thing for me. BUT it has NOTHING to do with what we were discussing. I tell him, Thank you and express great gratitude. I try to tell him that he is making a deposit in the LoveBank. And that we still need to address the real issues. Sometimes, as nice as this is, it is FRUSTRATING!! He is not listening to me. We do not spend time together (I mean, really hardly ever). He does not talk to me very much or share his feelings with me. And I really feel that I cannot trust him!! These are very big issues for me. I know that you feel the same way about your H.

That is why I think that you need to be direct. And follow up your words with actions(like packing...).

I keep thinking that maybe your H wants to work things out, but does not know how. OR maybe that is my H.

I also know that we are all different, but I, like Drucilla, would still really want to know where and what he was going and doing. That is just me.

ANd By the way, it is all very fulfilling, most of the time. Except when I get around to really cleaning inside, scrubbing floors.., and then the dog throws up. OR my H's old cat. I wouldn't trade places with a millionare that wouldn't have animals (in or out). And I really believe that dogs and cats make better pets and bond with you better when they are allowed inside. Again, just MHO. I sure love (most of) our animals!!

jls

They WERE laughing at me- I knew that!!!

AWWW SS, I want to know how you think things are going well!

That's ok, I can try to be patient -- but hurry back anyway.

As for the roses, my first reaction was, "ooooh roses!" and I smelled them. (because that's just what you do when you get roses)

But then I started thinking, "why did he buy roses?" I like to have fresh flowers around the house on occasion. I buy them myself sometimes, but not too often. I had some in the house when he came back from his trip. I know he likes them around, too. So part of me thought that he bought them because HE likes them around, and not necessarily just for me.

THEN I thought that if he really did buy them for ME, it's all very nice, but it's not enough. It's nice, but it's not what I really NEED from him. I need him to be open and honest with me. I won't ever get that from him.

In the past, I'm sure I would have gotten a little bit of hope out of that gesture. I think I'm way past that now.

Drucilla,

Thanks for posting. I think you're right. He's got a plan. It all fits. He's got to be in control and be the dumper. I think his story will go pretty much like the one you laid out. He needs to look good to his family AND he will get all kinds of sympathy. But what do they REALLY know? They are THOUSANDS of miles away. I don't know how he can live with himself.

You know, it also crossed my mind at one point that, after we split up, and I tell MY friends and family that I suspect he was cheating, it might somehow get to his hometown in Arg. We have a family friend who is from his hometown. I'm SURE that his family will say that I'm bitter and making it up (who knows, maybe even mentally unstable). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> He'll even be LUCKY to be away from me. Maybe I should be vague with everybody except my mom, brother, and best friend, and just say, "It didn't work out."

But, yes, I do think that it is probably appeasement, and not reconciliation. I am going to try to keep my control of the situation. Maybe I can leave my M with some dignity.

JLS,

That is why I think that you need to be direct. And follow up your words with actions(like packing...).

You betcha I'm going to keep packing! Those are my plans for this weekend. I haven't quite figured out what I'm going to say to him exactly yet. It'll come to me -- maybe after a couple of cups of coffee w/ Bailey's in it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I got a bottle of Bailey's for Christmas, and I haven't even opened it yet. Maybe it's about time.

I keep thinking that maybe your H wants to work things out, but does not know how. OR maybe that is my H.

I am confident that it is YOUR H. You keep doing your plan A. I think your H has said many positive things. Please don't give up hope yet.

I had a thought about your situation. I read this somewhere, I think on the Emotional Needs board. Is there any way that you can have someone come in and help you clean at least one day a week, or once a month? It just sounds like you're too overwhelmed. Some spouses don't care HOW the house is cleaned, as long as it is clean. See, now I am just throwing things out there.

As for the animals, I grew up with a dog in the house. I considered possibly getting a cat if/when I'm on my own, I hear they're easier to take care of and you can leave them alone for a few days as well. But 1) I'm too used to dogs, and 2)I'm afraid that I'll become that old lady with 50 cats at some point. Oh, and 3) a cat might eat my fish.

Thanks,
svb

SVB said:
That's EXACTLY it. As a matter of fact, I think he mentioned something like that to his BIL. Something like, "I'll give it 2 or 3 months and then I'll say 'listen, this isn't working out - I am having too many stomache aches, you are having too many headaches - it is not healthy for us to be together.'"

I am definitely ruining his plan. HE has to be in control. I feel now that he is ignoring what I said and will still wait 2 or 3 months to let me know when HE thinks it's over. He STILL has to follow his plan.

This is the feel I get from how he has been in the past. He wants to be in control.
I also get the feeling that he doesn't take change well. That is, if he is going along doing it HIS WAY, and something happens, it takes him a long time to react to the change, and he resists it.

I believe that would fit with many of the ways he has interacted with you over the years, and it would fit with him ignoring your conversations so far, and going on just like he was.

He is not taking me seriously at all. I have never been more serious! Maybe I should just open my own account and close our joint account. He'll have no choice then.
He'll see how serious I am. AND I should just do the D paperwork ... like you said.

Do whatever is consistent with your goals. If you have that time line, and your goals written down for YOU, then changing the time line, doesn't change the goal, it won't matter if the time is adjusted a little here or there.

I do caution you to be careful. Not that I worry -
OK, I do worry. This won't be an ordinary thing for him. If indeed he does not take changes to his plan well - How did he react when he was at his worst?

Do you have a place you could go if you needed to?

Do you have a plastic bag for Lenny?
(Or have you seen "Finding Nemo" yet?)

I need to go, and haven't come close to finishing, so I will address one more thing, and be back when I can.

AWWW SS, I want to know how you think things are going well!

I check in, and I read, but often don't have time for a reply. As you know, I don't often do "Hi how are you" posts. Except when I worry about someone, and need to know how they are - how they really are.

You are doing well emotionally.
I know this is hard, and that at least a little bit of this is you putting your best self out here in the public eye.
( Remember, you asked, and I try to tell the truth.)

I know it hurts, I know you worry about a lot of things that MIGHT happen.
However - when a person prays, and gets answers. When God supports them with that calm, that tells them they are going in the right direction, then I don't worry as much. God knows what he is doing, and if he prompts you, and if you can tell what that feeling is, and know what is right, then
my belief is that things are going well. God never makes a mistake - so if you follow his lead, you will find happiness. It's just a question of how long it will take. IN the short term, he will give you peace as often as you need it. Especially when you pray for help.

That doesn't mean it isn't hard, but it means you can do it. God always holds up his end, and I trust that you will do a good job with your end too. I have seen to much of you to think otherwise.

If God feels the same about you, I believe you will feel it when you read this.

See you gals later.

SS

I do caution you to be careful. Not that I worry -
OK, I do worry. This won't be an ordinary thing for him. If indeed he does not take changes to his plan well - How did he react when he was at his worst?

When something doesn't go according to his plan (he can't control me), he gets NASTY. MEAN. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

So, saying that...

It seems that he first tried to convince me nicely that I should wait to make any big decisions about a D until I'm done with IC. Then he pretended that we never had a D conversation and acted very sweetly -- hoping that I'd forget about it all, I suppose.

But I've been pushing the issue. I asked him yesterday if he's going to open a checking account his his name. He said in a sarcastic tone, "Yeah, two!" I was going over our finances last night - just updating everything to get an accurate picture of where we stand (so I can get an idea on how we can divide everything)

Later on I sat down with him and told him that I can't wait until I'm done w/IC to move on. He asked, "so what are you going to do? Transfer to Chicago with your job?" I told him that I can't - there aren't any jobs there with my company. He suggested that I look for a job in Chicago from here, and move when I find one. I told him that I've BEEN doing that. I think it will be easier to move and do a job search there.

He got angry, "FINE. Do whatever you want to do!"

I told him again that I don't think that he sees a future for the two of us. (It's really hard not to say, "I KNOW you want to be ALONE from now on!) I told him that I don't want to do this, but I have no choice. I said that he could have told me at any point that he didn't want to D, but he hasn't.

Then I asked him, "When were you ever going to tell me that you wanted to go your separate way?" He said nastily, "When you woke up!" I asked him what he meant, nicely. He didn't say anything. I asked him again, TWICE. Finally he yelled, "What's the point! It's over, right? You are going one way in life, and I am going in another!"

End of conversation.

I couldn't help feeling disappointed. I had hoped, deep down, that he would tell me, "no, I do NOT want to D. I want to make things work." No such luck.

I have to keep telling myself...You're doing the right thing. You're doing the right thing. You're doing the right thing! Then I ask myself, "Maybe there's 10% of him that DOESN'T want to D. Maybe, my bringing up the D issue eliminates that 10% chance." It's just a fleeting thought, though. I guess I know the truth.

I am just hoping now that he doesn't stay mean and nasty from now on. I hope he will at least be civil about all of this.


svb <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi,
Hope you are having a really good day at work. I can see time at home is not really fun right now.

When something doesn't go according to his plan (he can't control me), he gets NASTY. MEAN. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I was afraid of that. His history has not been really good over the years.

But I've been pushing the issue. I asked him yesterday if he's going to open a checking account his his name. He said in a sarcastic tone, "Yeah, two!" I was going over our finances last night - just updating everything to get an accurate picture of where we stand (so I can get an idea on how we can divide everything)

Beware the tall blue eyed girl on a mision.
S, I really hope you can laugh about this sometimes. I know it's not really a laughing matter, but perhaps it wouldn't hurt to create some laughts every once in a while. Much better than going crazy.

Later on I sat down with him and told him that I can't wait until I'm done w/IC to move on. He asked, "so what are you going to do? Transfer to Chicago with your job?"

I think he is seeing a side of you that has always been ther, but that he refused to acknowledge. His personality needs to put others down in order to feel good about himself. He used you for that for years. His curiousity seems to be real - I suspect he may have thought you would be a wreck. Just for the record, I always thought you would do well.

I told him that I can't - there aren't any jobs there with my company. He suggested that I look for a job in Chicago from here, and move when I find one. I told him that I've BEEN doing that. I think it will be easier to move and do a job search there.

He got angry, "FINE. Do whatever you want to do!"

You have always been capable of doing a good job without him, but you listened to him, and you used his suggestions because that's the way a marriage is supposed to work. In other words, you have always tried to use POJA. I would guess that he - except for the very beginning, he did things "HIS WAY". I would also suppose that he didn't accept much input from you. I think it would be well to watch for this when you date - and find someone that seeks your opinion, and values it. Please forgive me for bringing this up now, but it came to mind.

I told him again that I don't think that he sees a future for the two of us. (It's really hard not to say, "I KNOW you want to be ALONE from now on!) I told him that I don't want to do this, but I have no choice. I said that he could have told me at any point that he didn't want to D, but he hasn't.

You want so much to hear that he once loved you - your heart is near to breaking sometimes to think that it has all been a lie, for all these years. I often don't take time to put my thoughts into the right words. When I said that you put on a good face for the world - I meant, most people don't know how badly you hurt at times. You hide it well, and every one thinks you are really tough. Well, you are tough, and talented, and smart, but that doesn't mean you don't hurt some days. I just wanted you to know that we understand, and it's OK, and we support you. It's going to continue good/bad for a while. It' WILL get better.

Then I asked him, "When were you ever going to tell me that you wanted to go your separate way?" He said nastily, "When you woke up!" I asked him what he meant, nicely. He didn't say anything. I asked him again, TWICE. Finally he yelled, "What's the point! It's over, right? You are going one way in life, and I am going in another!"

You know why he said "when you woke up." He has thought for a long time that you didn't have a clue. That he was so smart, and that his plans were secret, and that you wouldn't know until he sprang it all on you. I think a part of his mind knows what he is giving up, and is angry at the loss, but his pride won't let him admit it to the rest of him.

Pride is such a terrible thing. You may notice that there is no such thing in the scriptures at rightous pride. It is always condemed. The book of Malachi tells us that when the Lord clenses the earth by fire, the proud will be burned, and the meek will inheret the earth. This is not out of anger or spite, but it is a direct result of their own actions, and thoughts - a result of the pride, or the meekness.

Most of us think of pride as self-centeredness, conceit, boastfulness, arrogance, or haughtiness. All of these are elements of the sin, but the heart, or core, is still missing.

The central feature of pride is enmity—enmity toward God and enmity toward our fellowmen. Enmity means “hatred toward, hostility to, or a state of opposition.”

Pride is essentially competitive in nature. We pit our will against God’s. When we direct our pride toward God, it is in the spirit of “my will and not thine be done.” As Paul said, they “seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ’s.” (Philip. 2:21.)

Our will in competition to God’s will allows desires, appetites, and passions to go unbridled.

The proud cannot accept the authority of God giving direction to their lives. They pit their perceptions of truth against God’s great knowledge, their abilities versus God’s priesthood power, their accomplishments against His mighty works.

Our enmity toward God takes on many labels, such as rebellion, hard-heartedness, stiff-neckedness, unrepentant, puffed up, easily offended, and sign seekers. The proud wish God would agree with them. They aren’t interested in changing their opinions to agree with God’s.

Another major portion of this very prevalent sin of pride is enmity toward our fellowmen. We are tempted daily to elevate ourselves above others and diminish them.

The proud make every man their adversary by pitting their intellects, opinions, works, wealth, talents, or any other worldly measuring device against others.

I think this has produced the destruction of your marriage. He pitted himself against you - the one he should have protected, and cared for. For some reason he had to see himself as better than you, not your partner.

BTW, these thoughts are not original with me, I heard this sermon once at a church meeting.

I also hurt for what might have been, but none of us can change the past, and it is your job to make the best of your future. I hope you can find someone that delights in being your partner - with all that this implies.

I couldn't help feeling disappointed. I had hoped, deep down, that he would tell me, "no, I do NOT want to D. I want to make things work." No such luck.

I was worried he would say yes, and use that as a delay tactic. I don't know what is in his heart. I know he has much good in him, and I BELIEVE he was once very much in love with you. Love usually brings out the best in us - but all too often the more base part of us returns to destroy the beautiful thing that we helped create. Please don't fish for answers, his heart is closed, and I see only hurt for you if you continue to ask.
PLease?


I have to keep telling myself...You're doing the right thing. You're doing the right thing. You're doing the right thing! Then I ask myself, "Maybe there's 10% of him that DOESN'T want to D. Maybe, my bringing up the D issue eliminates that 10% chance." It's just a fleeting thought, though. I guess I know the truth.

His actions have been consistant for more than a year. He has resisted all your efforts to repair a damaged relationship. Not just resisted, but he has fuled the destruction.

I commend you for the hope that is in your heart, even now. It is a good, noble, wonderful thing. It is what will help you create the rest of your life, and fill it with joy. It is a great gift to pass on to your children, or child, as your mother passed it on to you.

One of the reasons I recommended you read Esther -
She didn't know what would come of her life, but she knew she wasn't born to be a failure. She trusted in God, she fasted, she prayed, and she did ALL THAT SHE COULD ON HER OWN. You are doing these things too. Remember the feelings of calm, and love that you get when you pray. You may very well feel that now, because I know that God wants you to trust him, and to pray for him, and follow the still small voice he gives to guide those that seek him.
I do have faith in you.

I am just hoping now that he doesn't stay mean and nasty from now on. I hope he will at least be civil about all of this.

That would be better, but it doesn't really matter.

Keep praying, and be the best SVB you can be. Things will come to you, you'll get through this OK.

Keep your mom informed, she worries about you.

SS

Thanks SS, I was hoping that you'd be here today.

I'm not having such a good day at work. I have these thoughts constantly swirling in my head. I'm not putting in my 100% -- haven't been for the past year -- and I feel horrible about it. Somehow, though, I managed to get a good review. It's a miracle.

His personality needs to put others down in order to feel good about himself. He used you for that for years. His curiousity seems to be real - I suspect he may have thought you would be a wreck. Just for the record, I always thought you would do well.

Thanks, SS. I thought I would be a wreck, too. Well, I was more of a wreck in the past. I think it might be the Lexapro that helps!

I would guess that he - except for the very beginning, he did things "HIS WAY". I would also suppose that he didn't accept much input from you.

That's exactly right. It's his way, or no way. As for the input, he doesn't listen to a thing that I tell him. He will take advice from ANYONE else but me.

I think it would be well to watch for this when you date - and find someone that seeks your opinion, and values it. Please forgive me for bringing this up now, but it came to mind.

YIKES! Dating. I'm kind of looking forward to that and not, all at the same time. It's ok that you bring it up - it's good advice.

When I said that you put on a good face for the world - I meant, most people don't know how badly you hurt at times. You hide it well, and every one thinks you are really tough.

Again, I think it's the Lexapro!

You know why he said "when you woke up." He has thought for a long time that you didn't have a clue. That he was so smart, and that his plans were secret, and that you wouldn't know until he sprang it all on you. I think a part of his mind knows what he is giving up, and is angry at the loss, but his pride won't let him admit it to the rest of him.

I was hoping that someone would explain to me what that meant. I still had no idea what that meant, except that maybe he wasn't ever going to tell me how he felt and that I had to figure it out for myself.

BTW, these thoughts are not original with me, I heard this sermon once at a church meeting.

I'm still in awe of your thoughts and insights. I'm sure JLS and many others would agree with me.

I commend you for the hope that is in your heart, even now. It is a good, noble, wonderful thing. It is what will help you create the rest of your life, and fill it with joy. It is a great gift to pass on to your children, or child, as your mother passed it on to you.

You know, we talk about my mother a lot here - and that's ok. I need a moment to talk about my father. I hope you don't mind, but it is MY thread, you know, so I will.

My dad was soft-spoken, intelligent (lived all over the world & spoke 4 languages), sweet, kind, gentle, generous, godly, loyal, HONEST, patient, responsible, hard-working, and full of integrity. (I'm leaving out a lot) HE saw the best in everybody. He ADORED his wife and his kids. He was really a great man. (ask my mom) It was just unfortunate that he got sick for soooo long. Yeah, bad things happen to good people. But you know what, I NEVER heard him complain about it.

I think if I didn't have my father in my life (and my mother), and based on the experience I've had w/my H, I think I could have lost all hope on finding a good man and having a good life. But knowing my father, and seeing all of the good men working on their marriages on MB and helping others, I DO have hope.

Again, even if I don't find the right man, I still have hope (overall) for my future. (I'm sure I'll have bad moments where I'll have less hope.)

I hope this post isn't too nauseating. I guess I miss my dad today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm feeling kind of bummed right now.

I just got off the phone with H. I told him that I'm going out to dinner with my group from work tonight. It's a farewell dinner for our boss that we never really had before he left.

I told H that I had been thinking a lot. He asked where I found the information on getting D paperwork online. I told him. I asked, "So you think this is the right thing to do?" He said yes.

Last night he had another IC appointment. He came back and he was very withdrawn. We barely spoke. I checked the computer later on in the night, before I went to bed, and I noticed that he had been looking at apartments, both in our area and in Florida. He was also looking at new/used cars for sale. It looks like he wants a new place and a new car.
It looks as if both of us are ready to move on.

This is really starting to sink in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I've been thinking and I realized that I'm probably done done with MB. There will be no more working on my M. My M is over. It's just a matter of getting the D taken care of now.

I feel that I've done everything I could to try to save my M. Unfortunately, though, my H never had the intention of saving our M.

I want to thank everybody that has supported me throughout this whole ordeal. It has meant more to me than you can ever imagine. I think you are all wonderful people and this is a fantastic website. I have learned a great deal and will use all of the information here in my future.

Thanks again to everyone. I will probably check in from time to time to see how everyone is doing.

svb

Hi svb,

I'm sorry that you're so sad now. That feeling goes up and down, as does the feeling of excitement for the future, throughout the whole process.

I hope you're not leaving because you're not "marriage building" right now. The same people who helped you before will continue to help you through this stage. Chances are that your H will get worse, not better, during the divorce process.

Let the people here who know you and know how your dynamics work help you through this too. Those of us (like me) who can't help will still pray for you and silently support you during this difficult time.

If you need to leave here for now, remember that you have friends and <silent> wellwishers here who care about you---and we're only a click away.

Take care

Thank you, LovingBoundaries.

See, now that's what I was talking about when I said that the people here are wonderful.

I was feeling horrible yesterday -- very sad. Last night was even worse. I came home from my dinner and H was looking at the D website. (He was off from work yesterday) He had already opened up his new checking account. He took his name off of our joint credit card and cut up the card and left it out on our desk. It's STILL there. He was kind of cold last night, too.

I went upstairs to bed and really really cried for about 2 hours until I fell asleep. I don't remember the last time I cried like that. I didn't want him to see me cry. This is what I asked him to do, so why was I so upset? I kept thinking, "what have I done?" This is so final.

Today I feel better. It's a beautiful day outside. I guess you're right about the ups and downs.

H starts working nights tonight. I'll barely see him from now on. (probably a half an hour a day) He was very nice this morning. Maybe that's why I feel better? Who knows. I've been shopping around for my own new bank online.

Yes, I was planning on leaving because I am not "marriage building" anymore. I figured that there is no use staying here unless maybe I go to the divorcing board. There are plenty of new people here (unfortunately) that need real marriage building advice.

Ultimately, I'll probably never leave this place. I'll probably always lurk and "silently support" the people here and post on occasion.

Maybe I'll join the goddess club! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi S,
(I hope you don't mind)

So often I don't know how to start -

I am glad you posted about your dad. It IS your thread, and you can post what you want. I still find it interresting the way you state some things. Think about it a minute......why would we mind? I mean, we think the world of you, and IT IS your thread. I think the way H treated you has hurt you more deeply than I first thought.

Sometimes I wonder if I ought to say things like this, but here goes. I almost commented on your dad that post just before you did, but I didnt know him well, and I was afraid to touch a place I may ought to stay away from. I am glad you posted about him. It is good to hear the kind of person he is, and get to know him better. Notice I said "the kind of person he is."

He has moved, but you will see him again.


I went upstairs to bed and really really cried for about 2 hours until I fell asleep. I don't remember the last time I cried like that. I didn't want him to see me cry. This is what I asked him to do, so why was I so upset? I kept thinking, "what have I done?" This is so final.


I am sorry for these feelings. They seem to come in ever case. That doesn't make it better, but you should know that.

It is so final. Your life will change beyond what you can see from where you are now. Some things will be very difficult, and you will sometimes wonder if you did the right thing. Some things will be much easier, and you will wonder why you waited so long. Remember the feelings you had of calm. You can seek them again in prayer, and you can find them again when you need strength.

As far as staying or leaving MB.

I have seen many that felt they needed to get away, and many that felt it helped them more to stay and continue to learn. I recommend prayer for that also.

From this end, it has been very enjoyable to get to know you, and speak to you from time to time. You are a more talented and a better person than you realize - even yet. I believe you will do really well the next few years away from the emotional abuse. I think it will help more than you yet realize.

I think the Goddess club would fit well.

I am sorry I was missing when you were in such pain. I hope you are doing better now. Please take care of yourself, this will affect your health if you are not careful.

I wish I could say that everything will be OK, but I know that there are still many difficult times before it is all over. Come as often as you feel like it. You can go to whatever thread you feel the most comfortable being on. Just don't feel like a failure, and stay away. You are not a failure, don't get caught in that trap. If you do, come see us, and we will set you straight, even if we have to bonk you with a 2x4. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Don't be afraid to talk about your feelings as you go along. It somtimes helps a great deal.

I want to remind you again who you are. If God is your father, you are daughter to a great heavnly King. That makes you a princess, and don't ever forget that. You will grow into it, if you keep it in mind, and work on it. I expect great things from you. I believe in you.

SS

PS -
I have little time for replies these next few weeks. I am so glad you have these other good helps - and please don't think I would ignore you on purpose.

Hi SVB1,

Guess you really did leave us? I hope you are doing well.

You know, I had to D my 1st H. I tried for years, got him to MC twice, got him on meds once... but he was very unhealthy. He seemed to get worse as the years passed. I had to leave. I got to the point where I decided I could not waste another day of my life on this man. He was a black hole, and he would have sucked the life out of me for ANOTHER 10 years without giving it any thought, if I would have let him.

But it's hard to get to that point. It's hard to cross that point, and it's scary just after you do. Hang in there.

You sure dont have to leave. I've learned much here that I would have benefited from whether I was married or not. How about the Divorce board? Hopefully, you H will keep this simple, but some feedback can be good??

Please take care of yourself - Dru

Hi Drucilla,

No, I haven't officially left. I don't think I will ever be able to leave this place. I have been busy, though, and did not even look at the board for quite a few days. On other days, I just lurked here and there.

Actually, I went to Chicago for a very long weekend. Amazingly enough, I got a phone call last week about a job in Chicago that I applied for MONTHS ago. I had an interview there on Monday morning. I think it went pretty well. They should be making a decision by the end of this week, so I'll know one way or another either today or tomorrow. The job is more in my field, but I would be taking a substantial pay cut (better benefits, though). I would also be back in Chicago -- very quickly! I'm feeling uncertain about this. Like I said, the pay will be less, but it might be nice to get away ASAP (if I'm offered the job.)

Otherwise, I am doing OK. My H (or STBXH?) is being very civil. Our D paperwork has not been filed yet. H and I are still both going to IC. I am getting a lot of insight from my C about my H. She is wondering WHY I have stayed with my H for so long. She says that he is definitely emotionally abusive, a sociopath, and a narcissist.

SS, you said, "I think the way H treated you has hurt you more deeply than I first thought." I think I might be realizing this, too. My C keeps pointing out that I keep defending my value as a human being. I don't even realize that I do it. Apparently I do and say other things that make H's treatment of me obvious to her. How have I gotten to this point?

Drucilla, I like the way that you put it, "He was a black hole, and he would have sucked the life out of me for ANOTHER 10 years without giving it any thought, if I would have let him." That's how I feel -- he's been sucking the life out of me. Was your H emotionally abusive?

You know what's weird, though? Hy H has been calling me almost every day at work. My co-worker has pointed it out to me too, "he calls you more now than he ever did before!" He calls me just to say, "I'm going to the store, do you want me to pick up anything?" (then he never did end up going to the store) or yesterday, it was "how do you look at the call log on this phone?" What's up with that?

svb

Hi svb!!

So glad that you are still here. Can't talk long, my H is coming to dinner, we separated last weekend.

I wrote you a long response last time you posted and it is in internet lalaland!! Sorry, didn't have time to repost and then I thougth that you might have left.

Will try to write more later.

jls

Hi !
You sound well, all things considered. You sound strong, like you have taken charge of your life, and are moving foreward.

Actually, I went to Chicago for a very long weekend. Amazingly enough, I got a phone call last week about a job in Chicago that I applied for MONTHS ago. I had an interview there on Monday morning. I think it went pretty well. They should be making a decision by the end of this week, so I'll know one way or another either today or tomorrow. The job is more in my field, but I would be taking a substantial pay cut (better benefits, though).

You can always take it, and spend more time looking for something better. Depends on what your goals are. It could take some time to find just what you want. I have no idea what you do.

I would also be back in Chicago -- very quickly! I'm feeling uncertain about this. Like I said, the pay will be less, but it might be nice to get away ASAP (if I'm offered the job.)

Unless there are legal problems, it would be good emotionally for you to be away from H, and close to family. If you forsee legal problems, and him contesting what you want, it would be easier to stay there until it is over.

Otherwise, I am doing OK. My H (or STBXH?) is being very civil. Our D paperwork has not been filed yet. H and I are still both going to IC. I am getting a lot of insight from my C about my H. She is wondering WHY I have stayed with my H for so long. She says that he is definitely emotionally abusive, a sociopath, and a narcissist.

What are your thoughts as she tells these types of things to you? I would guess you don't complain about him on your own, but she asks questions to draw you out. More about what he DOES, and how he TALKS TO YOU. I would guess you have a hard time saying some of the things. I also think you have lots of little lights going on in your head as she discusses this with you.

SS smiles.
Of course, I haven't been there, so tell me how it really is.


SS, you said, "I think the way H treated you has hurt you more deeply than I first thought." I think I might be realizing this, too. My C keeps pointing out that I keep defending my value as a human being. I don't even realize that I do it. Apparently I do and say other things that make H's treatment of me obvious to her. How have I gotten to this point?

Don't worry so much how you got there. All of us react to the treatment we recieve from others. You loved him, and trusted him to take care of you. You believed he cared for you, and took the things he said to heart, and tried to change so he would love you, and respect you.

I don't know how this could have been different really. I think you can learn some things, and keep in mimd again - find someone that values YOU, and doesn't put you down verbally. It needs to be someone that is secure in who they are, and can build up others. Not someone that tears down others to prop up lagging self esteem.

You may have noticed by now that some of the things I have said to you over time, are to re-enforce to you that you do have value as a human being. I wish more than anything that you do understand this. You have value beyond anyting we can say with words. God bends his will to making sure you know it, and that you can realize your dreams.

He knows your name, and every thing about you, and intends for you to succeed. Think about that for a few minutes. Think of what you mean to God, the creator. You (we) are his most important work, and his glory is in seeing you succeed. You are not an after thought, or a problem. You are his child whom he loves, and will help as often as help is needed.

I HOPE YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. YOU NEED TO KNOW, SO THAT YOU MAY LIVE UP TO YOUR POTIENTAL.


You know what's weird, though? Hy H has been calling me almost every day at work. My co-worker has pointed it out to me too, "he calls you more now than he ever did before!" He calls me just to say, "I'm going to the store, do you want me to pick up anything?" (then he never did end up going to the store) or yesterday, it was "how do you look at the call log on this phone?" What's up with that?

This could be more than one thing. I really think it is for more than one reason -

He sees you as more of an equal now. You stood up to him, and you didn't do things his way. He values your opinion more because of that. Since he knows you well, and is comfortable talking to you, he calls you more.

Part of his past anger, and bad treatment of you stemmed from his planning to leave. Now that it is a done deal, he doesn't need to be distant, or angry. I think part of that persona of his, was to protect himself from emotional closeness. If he was emotionally close, then it would be hard to leave. Now, it doesn't matter.

These are a couple of thoughts, I think he is a complicated person. It's too bad he made up his mind such a long time ago, and chose what I see as being a terrible solution to problems he never even spoke to you about.

What do you think?

I would like to know some things -

Are you getting enough support from friends and family?
Enough support that you are OK.


Do you feel like you are making personal progress?
That is, progress in understanding, and progress in making this work.

What is most difficult for you right now? (meaning for the next few weeks, not right this minute.)

Can you tell me why still seeking takes time to write to you?

Please know that this last question is not asked lightly, it concerns some of the things we have discussed.

May God bless you to know how to proceed.

SS