I wanted to do a long post tonight, but I have run out of time. We leave for Girls camp at 5:30 am, but at least we are all packed up.

The twins read about sleeping in the closet, and they say they will do it, but of course, they know their dad couldn't live without them, so they are resigned to stay here, even though the two pools call to them.

I realize you must be lonely, and that the feelings are hard on you. I extend my prayers, and support across the miles. May you weather the storm, and may the sunrise be sweet for you.

Don't worry so much about what happens the next few months. Just live each day the best you can, make plans for the future, and keep busy.

See you when I get back, let us know how the job is, and how you are feeling. Don't be afraid to be honest with us.

SS

svb,

Well, I think it is honorable to keep the ring on until you are D'ed. That's what I'm doing. I like wearing it. As for "not looking", that also is the absolutely correct approach - for so many reasons.

I was only half-joking about the laundrymat. A guy who can't afford a washer/dryer is probably a loser anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I'll get mine... soon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking about what your H said - about kids and careers and such.

Please forgive me if I comment on it. I know it's a sensitive topic. I've been hesitating to write about it.

I can see two options. Either this could been just an "excuse" - a way to make the failure of the marriage appear to be all your fault, or it could be a very significant truth about your H's feelings about the marriage.

What if it is, really, what he has felt. Imagine being in his shoes. He thinks that a man provides for his family, but you make more money than he does - and he doesn't know how to raise his income faster than yours goes up - to overcome what he percieves as a failure on his part. Also, you didn't want to have children - when he did. Not only was he then not the man to you that he (perhaps desparately) wanted to be, but he didn't even have the opportunity to be "the man", the father. And this was not only a matter of his direct personal experience, but a matter of pride. So that he might have felt that in the eyes of his family and of the people who he respected, he was a loser and a failure.

I can start to "feel" something for him - to get a sense of his inner despair. Perhaps he complained about this situation - talked about having kids, but I suspect that he could not come to you and really explain what he was feeling because he would have felt humiliated to have to come to you with his problems. He wanted to be the man but you were, so to speak, wearing the pants.

To complete this view, I hesitate... because all of this is painful for you and maybe I'm completely wrong - and I don't know what to do about it anyway, but you have written that you are 6' tall. Please forgive me. I don't mean to hurt you. If all of this is true of your H, perhaps your very physical characteristics undermined his sense of manhood relative to you. If he had an A, I would be surprised if the woman were not much shorter than you.

I hope I haven't hurt you by my guessing game.

If I'm correct, it's a matter of conflicting visions of marriage and family.

I'm starting to see the humanity of your H, where before he just seemed like a cold, distant man.

I'm going to venture a bit farther. You wrote that your "mother wanted you to be an independent woman". Have you been, throughout the marriage, afraid to let go - and trust your H to take care of you? If I recall correctly, you have written that he's not so good at taking care of finances and such. If he knew that this was your attitude - it's just another blow to his sense of manhood. He knew that you didn't trust him - were not willing to rely on him - but he wanted somebody to take care of, and you would not take the risk.

Does any of this make sense? Am I way off base here?

-AD

svb,

Now, there is a strange episode which goes against what I wrote. You told us that you had some kind of fainting spell, and instead of taking care of you, your H disbelieved it and treated you as if you were faking. That's the opposite of what I would expect him to do, unless you have a history of faking - which you hinted at.

I'm going to counterbalance Drucilla here...

I was about to suggest that you fake a crisis to see if he comes to your rescue, but now that doesn't seem like a good idea.

But you did take a lower-paying job. That's a start, at least.

SVB, if you truely let go - quit your job, left all the finances in his hands, allowed him to have a large turf in which you didn't meddle, (if you knew he would return to you), how would you feel about that kind of life? Do you think you could ever let go and allow your H (this one or a subsequent one) to take charge of things?

If the answer is yes, and if my guesses are right, there might be a chance with him still. It would be very difficult, but not impossible, I think.

-AD

You know AD, I'm really with you on this. I can certainly see how a man would be hurt by a woman not wanting to have children in favor of her career. I can see how either spouse would be hurt about delaying pregnancy, for whatever reason.

But (apparently) this man wasnt very nice to svb from early on in the marriage. Whatever his issues, the firm footing needed before having children certainly wasnt there. And for whatever reason (career being convenient), delaying pregnancy may have been in svb's best interest. She was enjoying her career while giving her marriage time to solidify. That doesnt seem too extreme.

But I'm kinda with you in that he may be using that as an excuse. Nothing else I've read about him indicates a caring, generous, daddy-type nature. The kids thing almost seems out of character, from this side of the screen.

It seems his character has been pretty consistant over the years, and not good, either! You can only deal with what you're presented with, and he's not given her much to work with.

SVB, I hope you are settling in nicely. Please take care - Dru

Hello SS,

That's ok, I understand. Have a good time w/your family.
It sounds as if you're going to be away for a long time!

I'll manage over here. I AM going to try to stay busy. My friend is coming over to see my apartment (for the 1st time) tomorrow night and have dinner. She's been extremely involved in a budding romance. She's giddy and I think she can't wait to give me all the details tomorrow (I'm happy for her and am looking forward to get the scoop). It's tough not having a phone STILL. She's been keeping me informed on the status of my phone. Apparently, when you call my number it no longer says, "the number you reached has been disconnected." It NOW says, "the number you reach is not yet connected." It seems like progress to me.

My nieces will be spending the weekend with me. (I won't make them sleep in the closet.) They are looking forward to spending time at the pool(s).

ONE day, when I no longer have to stop at the clubhouse to get on the internet after work, I plan on going STRAIGHT TO THE GYM, instead. It's time to get svb back into shape.
No more sitting on her butt in front of the computer all day at work and all night, too!

OK, not that you asked me specifically for my plans, but there they are!

Hello AD,

I was only half-joking about the laundrymat. A guy who can't afford a washer/dryer is probably a loser anyway. I'll get mine... soon.

About a week or so ago, you could have had our washer and dryer. Of course, you would have had to go get them in Philly from my H! He just sold ours the other day.
(He can't have a washer and dryer in his new apt, and my apt. comes with them.)

Please forgive me if I comment on it. I know it's a sensitive topic. I've been hesitating to write about it.

I really appreciate your comments. Don't hesitate to say anything at all that comes to mind. It's good to have different perspectives. You haven't hurt me by anything you've said.

I can see two options. Either this could been just an "excuse" - a way to make the failure of the marriage appear to be all your fault, or it could be a very significant truth about your H's feelings about the marriage.

I've really been thinking about this a lot. I can see both sides of it. That is why I feel so CONFUSED. Sometimes I think of how I have contributed to my M's failure and I feel so guilty. Other times, I remember the horrible things that my H has said and done, and I feel relieved to be away (like Drucilla said). I honestly don't know what to think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I can give you some more facts to support your theory on my H not feeling like a man being married to me.

1. When H wanted to start a family, he always wanted to be promoted at work first - so that he would be better able to provide for us. That never happened as he planned it -- till now. I know he has always felt frustrated at work about that (and possibly felt like a failure).

2. When we were first married, I was in the military. I was the military member and he was my "dependent." Oh how he HATED to be called my "dependent."

3. To go along with number 2, H considered joining the military. He really would have enjoyed it, as a matter of fact. Do you know why he didn't? Because he would have started out at a lower rank than ME. He specifically told me that. I thought "who cares?" -- but apparently HE did.

It makes sense and you are not way off base here.

To complete this view, I hesitate... because all of this is painful for you and maybe I'm completely wrong - and I don't know what to do about it anyway, but you have written that you are 6' tall. Please forgive me. I don't mean to hurt you. If all of this is true of your H, perhaps your very physical characteristics undermined his sense of manhood relative to you. If he had an A, I would be surprised if the woman were not much shorter than you.

I'm ok, trust me. But I am a little confused here. Are you saying that his OW would be much shorter than me?

Please keep in mind that I NEVER rubbed in that I made more $$$ than H, etc. I never looked at it like that.

As for the finances, I have always been the "bookkeeper." I enjoy doing it. H always hated it. I am great with numbers, he is not. He would admit it. I would keep the checkbook and create a "budget." He liked that I did that. It was just one of the tasks that we both agreed that I would take on when we married. As for planning our finances, we always made the decisions together -- what to invest in, how, big purchases, etc. I even heard him tell his sister once (recently) that he will let any future woman in his life handle the "finances" like I did. He just wants to be told how much he can spend or not spend.
(that was hard to hear)

I would have considered staying at home to raise a family and let him work and provide. (but possibly working part time) I even mentioned it to him (last year or so). But it is too late. He told me, when I approached him, to NEVER bring up the topic again. He said that it took him a LONG time get having children OUT of his mind and he didn't want me to say anything about it and confuse him. He says he's too old to have kids. BTW, as I mentioned before, HE wanted to start a family around the year 2000. I finally felt ready and told him so two years later -- in 2002. He told me THEN that he wasn't sure if he wanted kids anymore. Then of course last year he SCREAMED at me to never bring it up again. Why does he feel that it is too late? Do some guys feel that they are too old to have kids?

At the same time, there was always a little bit of worry at the back of my mind about having children. Yes, my H can be very controlling and mean tempered. I worried about how he would treat the children. Every time I met with his sisters back in his home country they always asked me how he "treated" me. They "know" how he is. One sister told me once, "he would be VERY STRICT as a father, but he would be a good father." At the same time, he has always loved kids. He's got 25 nieces and nephews. He always loved playing with them and spending time with them (and friends' kids, etc). But how would he act with his own kids?

Like Drucilla says (hi Drucilla!), maybe it's for the best that I never find out.

Oh, I'm still so confused.

I have to go, they're about to close the offices here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi SVB,

I'm glad you didn't take offense at my comments. Also, I wanted to say that even if you and your H had different visions of marriage, that doesn't mean that it was up to you to change your vision. I was just trying to figure out your H.


Yeah, sorry. Some things I write sound like Bilbo Baggins' party speech.

I think she would be shorter. But I've got nothing to go on in that prediction.

Well, g'night.

My daughter is going to be here tomorrow evening and night, so I'd better get some sleep so I can be my best.

-AD

SVB,

I regret my little guessing game on your H's mind and life. I guessed wrong on the bookkeeping role. I think I read him wrong. It's really hard for me to get a read on him from what you have said about him. He seems so distant. Maybe it all is MLC with a side-order of depression. Maybe it has nothing at all to do with you. Maybe... I shouldn't speculate about it.

I hope you are having some good days - and a great time with your nieces!

-AD

Good news! I finally have a phone line in my apt.! It only took two and a half weeks, but who's counting? Now I have access to the Internet 24 hours a day!

AD,

Please don't regret your guessing game. I keep playing my own guessing game! It changes from day to day. Plus, like I said before, I don't think you're way off base at all with what you said.

As for the bookkeeping thing, that's MY fault. I don't think I explained myself very well in the past.

I was thinking some more last night about H not feeling like "the man" being with me. To take it a little further, though, I was thinking that if he doesn't feel like "the man," or if he feels insecure in any way, that's no reason for him to cut me down, or "put me in my place," which he often did. I think he would do that to make him feel better about himself, somehow. Lately, again, I'm feeling a little better about being on my own.

I hope you are having some good days - and a great time with your nieces!

I had a great time with my old friend last night. We both laughed (like I haven't laughed in a LONG time) and cried. My mom will be over tomorrow morning with my nieces. They are READY to hit the pool. It is HOT here right now!

I hope you have a wonderful time with your DD.

Well, I'm glad I didn't offend.

You are absolutely right that there was no reason for him to cut you down. That was just cruel and stupid. Maybe the breakup is all for the best...

Laughter is great medicine. I can't remember when I last had a good laugh.

Happy weekend to you!

-AD

How do I change the title to my thread "I asked H to leave?" Boy, THAT was a long time ago.

I had a wonderful weekend with my nieces. We went swimming both yesterday and today. Last night we went to the Rainforest Cafe. We had them bring out a cake and sing to my littlest niece for her birthday. Her birthday is on Wednesday - same as H's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (No Black Forest cake for H this year - he's going to have to make it for himself.) I think I might send him an e-birthday card, though.

My niece asked about H and the D again this weekend - twice.
"Are you mad and Uncle (H)? What did he do that was so mean?" I don't know what my brother has told them. I really need to talk to him. What do you tell a 7 (almost 8) year old?

Where is that man with 8 kids?

"Are you going to get married again? Are you going to have kids?" I said, "I don't know - time will tell. Do you WANT me to get married and have kids?" She said, "NO! I want you to stay single!" My older niece yelled, "YES!"

My nieces are loveable, especially the little one. She hugs me all of the time and tells me that she loves me. It makes me feel better. She told her cousins last weekend, "not only is she my aunt, but she is my GODMOTHER, too!" She seemed so proud.

Well, they left with my mother late this afternoon. I left out their cups, etc. for a long while after they left. I guess as proof that life other than my own existed in my apartment (or hotel room - as my niece would accidentally say) this weekend. How pathetic is that?

Here is something else that's pretty pathetic. I called H yesterday morning before my visitors arrived. We talked for about 30 minutes. I hadn't had any contact with him since last Monday. He sent me an email that day and I replied. I didn't hear anything else from him till I called.

As I mentioned previously, I finally got my phone connected on Friday. After work on Friday, I came home and had FOUR messages on my machine - 1 from my brother, 2 from my friend, and 1 from my mother. It seems that ALL of them had been calling my new number periodically to see if it was connected. Of course, that would be all of the important people in my life - except for H. Yet I STILL call H the following morning to say, "Hey, my phone is connected!" He was heading out for a bike ride when I called. If he really cared, he would have figured it out by himself by then - like everyone else in my life.

Why do I still expect or hope for him to care? Why can't I let go still?

The only good thing about the phone call is that I ended it, saying, "listen, I have to go, my nieces will be over at any time and there's some stuff I still have to take care of." At least it would appear that I have somewhat of a life. I was really upbeat, too, during the conversation. He did ask a lot about my work, health, finances, etc. I wonder if it's just out of curiosity more than actual concern.

I don't think I'll contact him anymore in any way (well, after the e-birthday card), unless it's absolutely necessary. He can contact me if he wants to from now on.

Hi SVB,

Good to "see" you.


Just go to the first post on the thread and edit it. Change the title there.


Oh, aren't little girls GREAT!


If it didn't make you feel better, we would know you were dead!

My little DD is 4.5 years. She likes to jump on me. It hurts, but I never complain - 'cause it's just about the best form of pain. She laughs so when she does that to me!


As she should be.


I'm always especially sad after DD leaves. Every time she comes we make cookies. (I think now in 3 weeks she's made cookies more times with me than she has ever with her Mom.) When I'm feeling a bit down, I go eat one - and remember that she helped make them.

It sounds like just the right medicine for a broken heart - the pure innocent love of children.

-AD

Hi AD,

Good to "see" you, too. Still not sleeping, I see?

Thanks for the info on changing the title. I am actually now debating just killing this thread and starting a new one. This was supposed to be my official plan B thread. I am way past that now. I guess I need a plan D/moving on thread now.

Oh, aren't little girls GREAT!

Yeah, you're a lucky, lucky guy, AD. She's all yours.
My nieces will be in town through the holiday. Then they will go back to where they live -- Kentucky. But at least I will see them more often now in Chicago than when I was in Philly. They come to visit family often in Chicago. I plan to visit my brother and his family as often as I can in KY, too.

Every time she comes we make cookies. (I think now in 3 weeks she's made cookies more times with me than she has ever with her Mom.)

That's sweet. I can almost picture that.

BUT...

When I'm feeling a bit down, I go eat one - and remember that she helped make them.

That sounds like it could be dangerous. I hope you don't feel down too often. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SVB

SVB,

I have to confess that I saw your post last night about 2:15am, and didn't reply then. No, I'm not sleeping well lately. I've got to just go to bed (already).

Yes, well, the cookies...

... are not the only thing I eat. I don't have scales at the house, but I'm afraid I do have mirrors. Not good.

I hope things look bright and cheerful for you today.
You sound strong.

-AD

H called me tonight. He really surprised me. We talked for almost an hour. Honestly, I have to admit that I was happy that he called. But still, there was nothing in our conversation to give me any hope that things might eventually work out between us.

Initially, we talked business. We discussed cancelling our joint (still) Internet account. He is also confused about how to pay his cc bill on-line.

He also said that he wants me to...

1. Get my car checked out. My wheel REALLY squeaks ever since I had the tires rotated. (about a week before I moved.)

2. Find a new IC in the area. (he really stressed this one)

3. Get my headaches checked out. I get migraines --- sometimes pretty often. I've already been to a Dr. about this, though, a long time ago. Based on the symptoms (and family history) the doc told me I suffered from migraines. I never had any "tests" done, though, so H thinks that I should get an MRI done, or CT scan. He thinks I should rule out anything else. (maybe my fainting spell had more of an affect on him than I thought)

He is also worried about my financial situation. I really don't know why. He knows that I make less money now, but I never told him how much less. Maybe he figured it out on his own. He doesn't want me to have to ask my family for $$$. He told me that he would send me $$$ if I needed it - just let him know. I did admit to him tonight that I make less than he does now - but I'm ok money-wise. I just have to be on a really, really, really strict budget.

He asked about my weekend with my nieces. I went on and on about it (of course). He laughed about it. He just adores the little one (his birthday buddy). He admitted to me tonight that he sees me in my little niece and he's worried that my family is going to corrupt her. (My mother being contolling (and her older sister), etc.) Why doesn't he see this sort of stuff in himself??

Anyway, that was our conversation. Does anyone have any ideas on his behavior?

AD,

I have to confess that I saw your post last night about 2:15am, and didn't reply then. No, I'm not sleeping well lately. I've got to just go to bed (already).

I'm glad you didn't post to me last night. (that sounds bad, doesn't it?)

I've been going to sleep pretty late myself lately. I can't seem to get myself on a set schedule/routine yet. I went to bed really late last night and my butt was dragging at work today. I hate that feeling.

I don't have scales at the house, but I'm afraid I do have mirrors. Not good.

Oh yeah? Well I have a scale AND mirrors. Very scary.

Hi.

I have mixed feelings tonight.

You have mixed feelings too.

Please tell me why you think you are confused.


I like to go back (when I get back from being away) and comment on stuff, but as I said, I have mixed feelings.

Sorry you aren't getting enough sleep. It tells me your conflicted feelings are REALLY STRONG. Oh, I would guess part of it is moving, and being in a different apartment, and so on, but still.........

I like the way you take care of your nices. I like that they love you, and know you are safe. I like that you like it.

I am still thinking about direction. Not sure tonight, but will think some more. Mostly you need time, and you probably know that, but it's still hard.

Again, reaching out across the miles.....
May you feel peace.
May you feel calm.
May your prayers be answered.
May you feel Gods love, for he loves you dearly.
May you understand your worth, for you are priceless.

SS

SVB,

I understand the feeling - when the phone rings, my heart feels glad. I know who it is. I should also remember what state she's in, but still, she's my one and only (so far). I don't think it's a bad thing that you feel glad that your H called. Why not? You've loved him for a long time. You still love him. You know the odds are against you reconciling with him, but still you hope - and hope is a good thing as long as you don't cling to it too desparately.

I'm sure your H misses you too. That's why he found reasons to keep talking so long. He misses, it seems, also your family - nieces. This is all good. Will it change anything? I haven't the foggiest idea.

I'm glad he shows concern for you. If you have insurance that will pay for it, it couldn't hurt to have whatever medical check you can get.

(Brace yourself for scarey medical story).

I knew a lady - about 30 years old at the time - a schoolteacher, who had one fainting spell too many. Her cousin, who happend to be an EMT, was with her and saw it. He insisted that she be thoroughly checked out. They found that she had a congenital heart defect. (As a child, she was supposed to have had a heart murmur, but nobody followed up on it.) So, she had heart surgery to close a hole between the two chambers of her heart - about the size of a quarter. After that, she was much stronger, more vigorous etc. It's the kind of thing that should have been caught long before, but when she had fainting spells, they were just explained away as "stress" or "nerves" or something like that.

Do you want me to tell some more horror stories? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Your H is right! If you've got insurance that will cover it (are you still covered under H's job?), go for it!

As for the IC... well, maybe he's ... I don't know. When somebody tells me I need a shrink, it doesn't make me feel all warm-and-fuzzy toward them. KWIM?

I was just now eating my dinner (10:45pm). I made a squash cassarole. That's all. I've never made a really good one, so I'm working on it. This one's not bad, but needs a little more cheese and butter. There's a "family" restuarant that I sometimes lunch at that makes a killer squash cassarole - but they don't have it every day and there's no pattern to when they will have it.

W seems to have signed a lease on an apartment and wants me to help her move. I know your H helped you. But, I don't want to do it. I've done that once already when she moved out 4 years ago - we were (sort of) separated for 18 months. I moved everything for her - twice - no, thrice, because I moved her back into our new house 2.5 years ago. This time, I think I'm going to hire somebody to move her. It's just too painful for me to be in the middle of that. I know I should be a "man" (of steel, it seems, LOL), but it just hurts too much.

After she's out of the house, I've got to get it ready for sale - and move all the rest of my stuff over here. Confusing enough?

Well, back to your story. I hope you sleep better tonight - and see this not before morning.

Goodnight,

-AD

Hi AD,

Do you want me to tell some more horror stories?
Your H is right! If you've got insurance that will cover it (are you still covered under H's job?), go for it!

Thanks, I guess, for the horror story. But, no, I don't want to hear any more. One was enough!

Yes, I'm still covered under H's plan. He said he won't change it until the end of the year. He told me to MAKE SURE that I use it for a check-up AND IC. I haven't made any appointments yet, though.

Yeah, I know what you mean about someone telling me that I need IC. But I know that I need it, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Squash casserole? I loooooove casseroles. I've never heard of a squash casserole before, though. Is it a southern dish? What's in it - besides squash, of course.

I like to cook, but I haven't been up for cooking for 1... yet. I imagine I can cook and freeze a lot of the leftovers.

When does you W officially move out of your house? I'm assuming July 1. The more I read what you write about your W -- I would say DON'T help her!! I can't believe your W talks to you the way that she does. She sounds worse than my H. Actually, my H seems like a saint next to your W - and my H isn't any saint!

Anyway, I hope you sleep well tonight.

Hello SS,

Please tell me why you think you are confused.

I'm confused because H says things over the phone that makes it sound like he really cares. I can't figure him out at all. Does he really care? Does he act like he cares so that he can keep me as a friend, just in case he needs something down the road?? Does he report back to his family how wonderful he is to me? Is he as conflicted as I am, after all? He did seem kind of ... down ... during our conversation on Monday. Maybe it was just my impression, or maybe he was just tired.

What do I do? I haven't called the court in PA at all about postponing the D. At the same time, I've never heard anything from them about a court date, either. It has probably been about 2 months since I filed.

We haven't discussed "us" since he was out here. I don't think I want to bring it up anymore. I think I might leave it up to him now.

Today is H's birthday, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I sent him a birthday e-card this morning. The other day I asked him if he had any plans for his birthday. He said, "no." I don't know if he really doesn't, or he just doesn't want to tell me. All I know is that it didn't sound like he wanted to talk about it. Like I said, he either has no plans and is depressed about it, or has plans and doesn't want to tell me about them.

What happened to that peace that I felt before I moved out here?