SVB,

I didn't know it was a southern dish, but maybe you are right. There are several varieties. I used to make one where the slices of squash remained more or less recognizable. Now, I'm trying to master the kind where the squash and other stuff are more-or-less cooked to a pulp, then baked to a firm-ish consistency. I don't know what's supposed to go in it - because I've never seen a recipe for one like the one at the restraurant.

But the one I made the other night, had squash, onions, green pepper (actually poblano) and mushrooms - all sliced/choppped and cooked to a soft state in a pressure cooker. Then butter, cheese, 3 eggs, 2 slices of bread (toasted and torn up). After a quick run the the pressure cooker (5+ minutes), the vegy's and fungi were drained and mixed with the other stuff, topped with a bit more cheese and mushrooms, then baked for 30 minutes at 375 with the convection mode.

<yum>

But it could still use tweeking.

-AD

Hi S,
It seems to me that he seemed to always get what he REALLY wanted. If he wanted to be M to you, I believe you would know it. Think back, think about the bike, the SUV, think about how he does things. If he wanted the M, would not it come out in the way he talked, and in his actions?

When you married, was there any doubt then? Didn't you know his feelings, weren't they plain?

I know it keeps coming to your mind, I am sorry for the pain. That peace will come back if you continue to ask for help. I think I'll do a post to you about the nature of life, if you don't mind. I need to think on it some more.

One of the twins asked me about you last night. I told her she could type to you directly, but she declined. People do care about you. She is just bashful. She wanted to know of you were OK, or lonesome. I told her that you were a little, but that you would be OK.

I hope you make friends at work, and that you are setteling in well. It's hard in more ways than one, isn't it.

Have a good evening, what's left of it.

SS

Hi Svb,

I'll tell you my story, fwiw... After many bad years, including (two) trys at MC and a round of anti-d's for H, I decided to D my (ex)H. I finally decided that I would have a bad, unhappy life if I stayed with him. That, even with his good qualities, the bad was very bad, and it wasnt going to change. I'd get fooled... he'd turn on the charm, squelch the rage for a while, and act like a decent human. But then the 'real H' would emerge, and I'd remember all over again how this man was killing me.

So I told him I was D'ing him. He talked me out of it, then about a week later, I told him again, and that I wasnt changing my mind. He moved out, and you know what?? We had a great relationship for awhile! We were friends (with benefits) for the first several months we were seperated. The pressure was off... he didnt try to control me, didnt tell me everything I was doing was wrong... it was nice. I'd go to his apartment, we'd go out... it was simple. It was Simple to be with him. Easy. Simple.

I'm sure he was pretty confused. He never asked if we were heading towards reconcilation, he was just nice. I, otoh, was never conflicted. I DIDNT want to be married to this man. I could hang out, be nice, have fun, and good SF, but this man would never be stable enough for me!

The thing was, I was lonely, I did feel bad for hurting him, he was comfortable to be around, I did hope he was going to be OK, and I didnt totally hate him. And in hindsight, I'm pretty sure I would not do this again. A clean break would have been better, I think.

But, I knew he wasnt meant to be my lifemate. He had a horrible temper, he had obsessive/compulsive disorder, and while he could be a friend, he wasnt ever going to be a good husband.

So he was all nice as pie, till I dated someone. Poof... gone.

Dont try to analyze his actions or motives. He hasnt said anything about his revealing his secret (and I'm thinking it was massage parlours, since the location was so fixed and the times were so flexible), he hasnt said anything about IC for him, fixing the 'years of secrets and emotional abuse', or about resolving the marriage issues. He's just being nice right now. Dont read anything else into it.

He hasnt offered anything real, has he?


See, he's not pushing for anything. He's not asking for you to do anything that leads towards reconciliation. He's trying to get you more equiped to be without him. It's just the opposite of reconciliation.


Not much to do except start building your new life. New places to go, new friends, new activities. The man has his issues. Not much we can do about that!

Anyway, I'm just giving you a POV from the other side. Unless he DOES (not says) something very specific, I would not assume anything has changed. And if he does, then YOU get to really think about it for a while. He's got alot of issues, it'd take some serious time to get through it all. I'd be careful, no matter what.

I hope you are getting out and having some fun!! Please take care - Dru

How are the fish now?

You haven't said lately.

Are the others still picking on Lenny?

I had the beginnings (thoughts) of a long post on my head, but they won't organize themselves into a post and come out of my fingers.

Tell us if quiet is good, or bad. In the past, quiet sometimes meant you were deep in thought, and often they were dark thoughts.

Lets see, holiday weekend, close to family...........parties, mini reunions, big meals, lots of laughter.

Hoping it's the latter.

SS

Hello SS,

The fish are doing well. They are swimming around right now in a sparkling clean tank. We are having visitors for dinner tomorrow night, and they would have been embarrassed if their tank was dirty - so I cleaned it. My bro and SIL will be visiting me in my apt for the 1st time. My nieces will go swimming again.

The other two fish chase Lenny around on occasion - about once a month or so. Lenny lays eggs all over the tank.......and then they eat them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Not quite like Finding Nemo.

Yes, I have been deep in thought since you and Drucilla have posted last -- with somewhat dark thoughts. I've come here a thousand times meaning to post replies, but I never do. Somehow I can't organize my thoughts into a post, either.

I can't do it now, either. I just wanted to say that I have read your posts and you guys have given me plenty of food for (deep dark) thought for a while.

I'll be back.

Think about happy things too. Dream dreams, have faith you can find happiness. This is important, this last line. I can't stress it enough.

Don't be afraid to say what you are thinking. Talking might just help.

Here's some more strength and help across the fiber optic lines. Hope it finds you with a smile on your face. Smiling helps, you do know that, don't you? Wink, wink.

SS

Hi SVB,

It's good to see you again. I've been looking for an update from you. You seem in a bit of a funk - which is absolutely normal. Go easy on yourself. I have found that my energy level has waned quite a lot since I moved - and I only moved back to a house I used to live in for 15 years - not to an entirely different place in a different city. On the positive side, you are really blessed to have your nieces to visit.


I often feel the same way. Sometimes I post, only to see at the end that I didn't say what I wanted to say - and don't have the energy to try any further.


I'll try to only give food for bright thought from now on. SS always does. Maybe this site/forum is not good for you (or me) right now.


We'll be waiting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-AD

SVB,

Your thread is calling to me, but I don't know why. Could you help me out with that?

I am thinking long term plans are too much right now. You may need some short term ones for this to work. Things to get you through the next week, then the next month.

You really can make this work.

I can't think of any good jokes right now, but maybe you can smile a little?

May you have a great weekend. I say it's about time.

SS

OK, time to get to business. I'd like to reply to some of your posts.

AD,

Your squash casserole sounds yummy. That's MY kind of food! I have a confession to make, though. ...... (svb takes a deep breath) ..... I don't have a pressure cooker. I know how you feel about pressure cookers.

Hi SS,

It seems to me that he seemed to always get what he REALLY wanted. If he wanted to be M to you, I believe you would know it. Think back, think about the bike, the SUV, think about how he does things. If he wanted the M, would not it come out in the way he talked, and in his actions?

When you married, was there any doubt then? Didn't you know his feelings, weren't they plain?

You are absolutely right. He really doesn't want to be married. You and Drucilla really got me thinking about this.

One of the twins asked me about you last night. I told her she could type to you directly, but she declined. People do care about you. She is just bashful. She wanted to know of you were OK, or lonesome. I told her that you were a little, but that you would be OK.

That's very sweet that she cared enough to remember and ask about me! Hmmm. It seems to me that she's pretty much a chip off the ol' block! Yes, I get lonely and sad, sometimes, but, overall, I think I am ok. It helps to know that people care. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thank you.

Good to see you, SVB!

Actually, I was just thinking about you and wondering how you're doing.

(it's lonely here too)

-AD

Pressure cookers are not neccesary. They just speed things up a bit. A microwave might work just as well - or a plain old "pot". (We don't call 'em saucepan's down here.)

-AD

Drucilla,

Thank you for sharing your story. It has helped me tremendously. Now I understand why you have so much insight about my H.

How long were you married to your ex?

But, I knew he wasnt meant to be my lifemate. He had a horrible temper, he had obsessive/compulsive disorder, and while he could be a friend, he wasnt ever going to be a good husband.

Yes, these are the things that I don't miss!

I don't have to wonder if he's going to be in a good mood or bad mood when he comes home from work -- making sure that everything is "just so" to prevent him from going off when he walked in. Trust me, he always LOOKED for something when he walked in. It wasn't,"Hi! how are you?" that I got when he walked in, it was, "what are these shoes doing here?" Uggh! And that stupid rug next to our front door. Whenever you walked across it, it would creep a little closer to the wall. God FORBID it ever touch the wall! I got yelled at many times for that. Once he yelled at me about it in front of his younger nephew (15 at the time) when they came to visit from Argentina. I still remember the look of shock on his nephew's face. The mail also had to be in its "proper place." That "proper place" always seemed to change from week to week, though. I'd always get it wrong. If I left a magazine "out" too long, or in the wrong place, he'd throw it away.

I understand that we all have our pet peeves, etc., but I think he was pretty extreme.

Even now, in my new apartment, I have flashbacks. Sometimes I fall asleep (on the couch, in my bed, wherever) and then I hear footsteps (from the apartment above). I wake up and want to jump up and act like I'm not sleeping because I think its H walking up to me. I could never lie down or take a nap unless:

1. I was not feeling well.
2. H was lying down or taking a nap, too.
3. H wasn't home.

Can people take naps without fear in normal marriages?
This just doesn't seem to be a way to live.

Dont try to analyze his actions or motives. He hasnt said anything about his revealing his secret (and I'm thinking it was massage parlours, since the location was so fixed and the times were so flexible), he hasnt said anything about IC for him, fixing the 'years of secrets and emotional abuse', or about resolving the marriage issues. He's just being nice right now. Dont read anything else into it.

You're probably right. It's hard not to analyze his actions or motives sometimes, though.

I, otoh, was never conflicted. I DIDNT want to be married to this man.

I wish I could feel this way. That's why I'm curious about how long you were married to him. H and I have a loooong history together. We dated for 4 years, and were(are) married for almost 11. He's all I've ever known. Maybe that's why it's so hard to let go (despite all of the yuckiness listed above).

Maybe you just value yourself more.

(I'm working on it, SS)

See, he's not pushing for anything. He's not asking for you to do anything that leads towards reconciliation. He's trying to get you more equiped to be without him. It's just the opposite of reconciliation.

I think this is what really got to me. HE'S TRYING TO GET YOU MORE EQUIPED TO BE WITHOUT HIM.

That's exactly what he is doing. He really doesn't want to be married to me. It hurts, but it's true.

It makes me think back to a lot of his comments in his conversations this past year.

1. I want to be ALONE.
2. When I am ALONE I'm going out to clubs every weekend.
3. I want to start over -- ALONE.
4. I like working nights because when I come home in the morning I am ALONE all day.

Gee, do you think he wants to be alone?
How many times did I hear him say it last year and yet I STILL didn't get it! Duh!

Of course there was also the other conversation where he told his sis that he would move out to C with me, buy an investment property to fix up, divorce me, buy me out of the property, but then make sure that I was "set up" in my own apartment away from my mother. Even back then he was worried about me being "equipped" to live without him (and my mother).

This is a lot of what I've been thinking during this past week.

There's a lot more, too.

I'm too tired to post about it now, though.

Good night.

Hi AD,

I didn't see your post earlier. I was replying to Drucilla.

I say "pot," too. Small pot, big pot. No saucepans. Afterall, you cook more than just sauce in a saucepan. Saying "saucepan" just confuses me. I think, "saucepan? is that the small pot, the big pot, or the frying pan?"

I hope you are sleeping by now. If not, GO TO SLEEP!

svb,

It sounds like dru and you are on the same wavelength.

I didn't realize all the abusive things your H did. I'm sure it's a relief to get out of that - and over time, you will feel better and better to be rid of it.

BTW. I went by the house yesterday twice. W moved out on Tuesday. The fish was still there, so I brought it (him/her) home - cleaned the tank this morning.

You haven't said anything about your bro's visit. What is his take on your situation?

How many siblings do you have?

-AD

Hi AD,

I didn't realize all the abusive things your H did. I'm sure it's a relief to get out of that - and over time, you will feel better and better to be rid of it.

It wasn't always bad with H. We had good times, too, and he could be sweet and charming, but I guess that's normal in abusive-type relationships. It was a cycle. He has wonderful qualities, too. I wouldn't have M him otherwise. It's just interesting how everything gradually developed over the years. I had come to accept behaviors as normal that would probably shock most other people. (like getting yelled at about a rug touching a wall --- I did NOT bring that rug to Chicago! He's going to realize now that it wasn't just ME pushing it up against the wall! I must have moved that rug away from the wall a buzillion times, yet the ONE time I didn't catch it -probably after HE walked across it and moved it to the wall - he would say, "Can't you SEE that the rug is touching the wall? etc. etc. etc." GRRRRRR.

ok, take a deep breath svb. Relax. The rug is gone.

-- Warning -- crazy talk ahead ----

As far as abusers go, though, I don't think he was that bad. I've heard a lot worse stories. Somehow I think -- if he cared -- and with counseling -- he could improve.

But still, damage was done. At some level, I don't think I'm good enough, smart enough, etc. I believe that most things are my fault. I apologize ALL of the time for EVERYTHING. I always feel like I have to defend my value as a human being. My C pointed that out to me.

---- end of crazy talk -----

Yes, I am relieved to be away from the behavior. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My counselor told me that she believes that once I get used to living alone I will begin to get control back in my life and I will heal. Eventually, I will NOT put up with that type of behavior again. I hope she's right.

I have a question for you, though. In your threads, you mentioned many times that your W has called you some awful things. She's hit you, too, right? Don't you think she's abusive? Aren't you relieved to be away from that behavior, too?

BTW. I went by the house yesterday twice. W moved out on Tuesday. The fish was still there, so I brought it (him/her) home - cleaned the tank this morning.

A fish? I didn't know that you had a fish! What kind is it? Do you mean to tell me that the poor fish was abandoned since Tuesday? Poor thing.

You haven't said anything about your bro's visit. What is his take on your situation?

Yes, I have one older brother. The visit on Wednesday was great. The girls were happy to come over again and go swimming.

My brother and his family left Chicago this morning to drive back to Kentucky. I went to my mom's this morning to say goodbye to them. They won't be coming back to C again till October. My mom and I will probably drive down there for a visit before then, though.

His take on the whole situation? I believe that he is happy that I am away from H. Aside from the possible infidelity, he just didn't like the way that H treated me. He said THAT alone was enough to leave H. He was the one that encouraged me to read Love Must be Tough ages ago - before I went into plan B. He was very disappointed when I decided to take H back. His attitude at that point was, "you'll always take H back. I'm not going to say anything else."

What does your bro say about your situation?

svb,

I see you were up late again. I'm not sleeping well myself. I just can't make myself go to bed. Or rather, I don't make myself.

Answering your Q's in reverse order, my bro doesn't say anything about my situation. I don't talk to him about it. My brother knows we have separated (again) - and he helped me move some furniture, but he has made no comments at all.

He is a nice guy, but he's rather black and white in his thinking - and can be harshly critical of whoever has gone over from good to bad in his view. I don't want him to hate my wife or disrespect her. He would never say anything disrespectful to her, but he would think badly of her - and my SIL would gossip about my W - so I just don't confide him him. We were never close, although we have a cordial and respectful relationship and live in the same city. After I married and all these problems began, I became more and more distant from everybody including my brother. I want to reverse course on that. Also, my bro's son, my nephew, is a great little guy - 11 years old. Really, he's tremendous! I want to be more of a real uncle to him now.

It sounds like your brother has been concerned about you for years. He's probably right - that your H was treating you badly and was not going to change. It's always hard to care about somebody (his little sister) and not be able to protect them. But, it is your life. I don't think you were wrong to stay in it and try to make it work. You knew when it was time for you to let go.

The fish is a simple goldfish my wife bought a while back. He's getting big - but in a tiny 2 gallon tank. He is the survivor - probably about 2.5 years now. He cost 11 cents at Wal-Mart. There were a few others my wife bought along the way, but they have all died. He's the tough guy. Dirty water? He don't care! No food? He don't care! Crowded tank? He don't care! He never had a name, though. Maybe I should just call him Survivor and leave it at that.

Now for the first question, the serious one - about my W's "abuse" of me...

Well, I don't want people to think she is this crazy constantly violent woman. She definitely is not. She is very sensitive to stress. She could be diagnosed with PTSD due to some horrible childhood experiences. She was born in a war, survived a massacre, spent at least a year in a very poor orphange, was adopted internationally, subjected to abuse from her mother, experienced racial prejudice (because she didn't look like the other kids in her school). Lots of hard things - and I always cut her some slack for that. The violent stuff was mostly in the first year of our marriage - mostly smashing things in the house - dishes, mirrors, the glass in the kitchen cabinet doors, glass in picture frames - her own camera - stuff like that. She settled down after awhile. The physical violence against me was worse in the time just before our first separation (I think, memory fades already, believe it or not).

The first time we were separated, when DD was 6 months old, I missed my baby very very much. It was the most painful experience in my life to miss my child. I didn't miss my wife. It was a relief to get away from the tension and "walking on eggshells".


I went through that as well. She constantly critisized me and complained about everything - and I constantly said "I'm sorry". She even complained about that, believe it or not! LOL. It was difficult for me to avoid saying "I'm sorry" about saying "I'm sorry". Bizzare! But, I realize now that at some point, I passed that phase. I toughened up a bit. Your rug I'm sure was just one symbolic thing out of many things that he complained about to you. I've already forgotten what my W complained about - since it was pretty much everything and everybody.

Oh yes, one thing that really made her livid was if were out somewhere and I didn't go directly from point A to point B. I was not allowed to look around or to change my mind or adapt plans to conditions. Going out to a restraunt was a nightmare. I would come home, she would say "Can we go out somewhere? I would say "OK, where do you want to go?" She would say "I don't know, lets just get ready and go." So, in the car on thw way, I would be asking "If I turn right now, we could go to one of these places (reeling off a list), or if I turn left, one of these." She would then say "What about Olive Garden?" She would ask my opinion and I was too dense to realized that my opinion was not what she wanted. So, I would say "I don't really care for Olive Garden." She would become very angry - scream at me in the car. Then she would say "I never want to go anywhere with you! Take me home." I would say "OK" and start to turn toward home. Then she would say "I don't want to go home. I wanted to go out tonight." Eventually, we would end up somewhere and have a lousy time - or she would appologize profusely and say "I don't know why I get so uptight about things." Yeah, if I ever get through this and am actually D'ed - and start dating. The first whiff of that kind of behaviour from a lady will be the last time she hears from me. LOL. I hate to admit that I actually look forward to dumping somebody for behaving like my W. OHHHH. That's terrible! Isn't it!?

Oh, this is your thread, SVB. I'll not go on. There is both too much and too little to the story. I feel like I've been stuck for 7 years, spinning my wheels while real life went on elsewhere. But this is my real life, unfortunately.

Thanks for asking.

-AD

Hi AD,

my bro doesn't say anything about my situation. I don't talk to him about it.

I don't want him to hate my wife or disrespect her. He would never say anything disrespectful to her, but he would think badly of her - and my SIL would gossip about my W - so I just don't confide him him.

I understand what you mean about this. It took me a LONG time to mention to my mother and brother how bad things were in my M. My fear was that I would confide in my family, and then everything would get better between H and me, but by then they would already hate H.

What I didn't realize was how much they already knew. For instance, my brother pointed out a time when we were all driving somewhere together and H made a wrong turn. H then yelled at ME about it (because everything is my fault, of course). In a situation like that, it's pretty obvious to outsiders that something's not quite right. When my brother reminded me of that incident I said, "He did that? I don't remember." See... normal behavior to me.

I'm glad that you plan on getting closer to your family. I think it'll be good for you.

The fish is a simple goldfish my wife bought a while back. He's getting big - but in a tiny 2 gallon tank. He is the survivor - probably about 2.5 years now. He cost 11 cents at Wal-Mart. There were a few others my wife bought along the way, but they have all died. He's the tough guy. Dirty water? He don't care! No food? He don't care! Crowded tank? He don't care! He never had a name, though. Maybe I should just call him Survivor and leave it at that.

That's funny. He must be related somehow to Lenny. Lenny is one tough chick fish. She was 28 cents at Wal-Mart.

I wish I knew she was a girl before I named her. I feel silly calling her Lenny now.

Well, I don't want people to think she is this crazy constantly violent woman.

I don't think she is a crazy constantly violent woman. It seems that she definitely has an issue with temper, though. H was not a crazy constantly violent man, either. He could be sweet and loving and charming, too. I think he had a tough childhood, too. Not nearly as tough as your wife's, though! He lost his older brother (whom he idolized) to leukemia as a child. Then, as if that weren't bad enough, his father more or less (in words and in actions) told H that he wished that H had died instead of his brother. I can't imagine being rejected by a father like that. H went to couseling as a teen/young adult. He KNEW that his father was emotionally abusive. He was told by his C that the chances were that he would be the same way. H doesn't believe that he takes after his father. If he can't admit that there's a problem, there is NO WAY that he will be able to fix it.

I think about H's past and it makes me still feel a little guilty. Maybe, because of this father, he has a bigger fear of being rejected than normal. Maybe he really took it that I rejected HIM by focusing on my career and waiting to have kids. I keep going back to that. On the other hand, though, even if I HAD given up my career and had kids when HE wanted, that STILL might not have been good enough. He'd still have me jumping through hoops, probably.

Yeah, if I ever get through this and am actually D'ed - and start dating. The first whiff of that kind of behaviour from a lady will be the last time she hears from me. LOL. I hate to admit that I actually look forward to dumping somebody for behaving like my W. OHHHH. That's terrible! Isn't it!?

No, I don't think it's so terrible. I kinda feel the same way.

In my case, fear of finding that behavior in someone makes me hesitant to even START a new R. Somehow, chances are that I WILL find someone with those behaviors. Sometimes I think I'll probably be better off being on my own - safer.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi SVB,

You still up? On a work night?

I'm going to bed - too tired to post - and tomorrow will be a long day.

-AD

Here are some more of my thoughts.

It's finally really sinking in that my M is over. H really wants to be on his own.

After spending 15, almost 16 years together, H will no longer be in my life. Unlike many people that post here, we have no children to tie us together for the rest of our lives. He now lives almost a thousand miles away.

It probably wouldn't even be a good idea to remain good friends with him. Why? Every time I see him, or talk to him, it will remind me of how he broke my heart. Not only that, but if we eventually have new people in our lives, I don't think they'd be comfortable with a really chummy ex around.

It's not like I really have to worry about it, anyway. H has already vanished. Like Drucilla said.... POOOFF.

H sent me a short email on 6/30 thanking me for his birthday card. He told me that he talked to his mother and a couple of his sisters on his birthday. He said that they all wished me the very best in everything in the future.

I sent him a pretty long reply on that same day. I haven't heard from him since. Not a phone call, not an email. Poof.

I do miss him, but I don't miss him as much as I used to. It's getting easier. I've been thinking of reasons to either email him or call him, but there are none. I won't. What's the point? He wants to be alone. He doesn't want to be M. I'll leave him alone.

What is difficult, though, is that most everything around me reminds me of him. Most everything that I have was either a gift from him, something we bought together, or reminds me of him in some other way. AD, you mentioned this in your thread, but I've been thinking the exact same thing. If H is no longer to be a part of my life in any way, I'm going to get rid of any traces of him. I'm going to start replacing everything a little at a time - as I can afford it.

OK, those were the rest of my thoughts. It felt good to get them out - finally.