This is a good thing to get out.

I would guess that you have ......what's the best word?

That you have been tormented by this for quite a while, and probably it has been worse as you have setteled in to a new job, and new surrondings.

I think the cure is much the same as for many other ills.

It's only the view from where you sit,
that makes you fear defeat.
Life is full of many aisles,
so why don't you change your seat?

Now, having said that, I would like to hear your thoughts about YOU.



Who are you. Or how do you see yourself.
Who (or what) do you look like to the outside world, and then, who do you see when when look in the mirror? Not the blond hair, and blue eyed girl that is taller than average, but tell me about the feelings and emotions of that girl you see.

What are your strengths, and what are your weaknesses? As you see them? As others see them?

I realize these are personal questions -
Lets see if we can find out how you value your self, and what can be done to increase that value in your own mind.

My belief is that you have a lot more going for you than you give yourself credit for. Your mom agrees with me and your dad also, (though it would be hard to get his signature on it.)

Glad Lenny is doing well. You can always change her name -

Jenny comes to mind.

SS

Hi SVB,

I sure hope I havent caused you any additional pain. This all sucks enough! I really hope you turn the corner soon and start feeling better about all this. It will happen, I am very sure.

Reading about your STBexH sure reminds me of mine. We were together one year before we married, married for 7 years, no children (I never wanted children). After dating about 6-8 months, he started pressuring me to marry him. I gave in at year. I was 20.

He also came in the front door - LOOKING for something to complain about. Nothing was ever clean enough, done orderly enough, etc. He'd rage for HOURS about dishes left out on the counter. This from a 20-something young man! I could care less about such things, as he well knew before he married me. He swore he didnt care, just marry him, everything would be alright. Yeah.

I read the book "The Verbally Abusive Spouse" a few years ago (after the D), and mine sure qualified. Walking on eggshells, the 'Cycle' of rage, the apologies... the crazy-making, the passive agressive bs... it was all there, I just didnt realize it was soooo bad, till I got out. I still cant believe I was in THAT kind of relationship for SO LONG. (Just to blow my own horn for a second..) I'm a smart, strong, kick-[censored] kinda gal (see Myers Briggs ENTJ profile.. HARDY and ROBUST!); I'm a VP, I run corporations, and I was living a horrible life! I'm embarassed to think about it now.

At first I thought he pulled a 'bait & switch' on me, as he was pretty sweet to me before we dated. As the years went on, the more obsessive he became. I really decided it was a chemical imbalance, as opposed to him just being a A**hole. Several members of his immediate family were on AD's, and with help from his mother we got him on prozak. He took them for a couple of months then quit. I got him to go to MC with me on two seperate occasions, but he quit after the first session, each time. I really tried to make the marriage work.

I later found out (after the D) that while living near poverty level (in college), he was going to topless bars, stuffing MY money down whores g-strings... I started getting the feeling he really hated women, and over time his actions and words we're convincing me I was right. This man had more problems than I knew about, much like your STBexH. We'll never really know what all his issues are...

But I just gave up. I was tired and had no hope he would mellow out. I wanted out while I still had a chance to meet someone else. I decided this man STOLE my 20's, he wasnt getting my 30's!

YOUR H, otoh, is not leaving because of you, but so that he can perseu some immoral lifestyle. He'd have left any woman he was married to, at this point. It's almost honorable, lol, if he'd been more up-front about it. I mean, he could have strung you out for many more years, had a few kids, wasting your youth before you found out his secret life.

At least you have a chance at a normal relationship now. I'd have a hard time being friends with your exH after the D, too.

Really, I have ever confidence that you will feel MUCH better about all this soon. It wasnt good, you're really not loosing much. He wasnt very sweet or comforting. You'll do better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Please take care of yourself and get out and HAVE SOME FUN!!! - Dru

Dru,
I don't think you could cause her more pain, but I think you are one of her greatest helps. Keep it up, you have wonderful insight.

SS

Drucilla, SS is right, you have not caused me any additional pain. You are helping me -- really.

I have more to say - to the both of you - but I'm too tired right now. It looks like it's going to be an early night for me tonight (that means going to sleep before 11pm). Good night. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Hi S,
I worry when I see those 3AM posts. I wonder if it's the loss of relationship, or if it is..............you being down on yourself. Perhaps even the job change, and the location change, but I would guess not.

How is work going, or is it too early to tell?

And, I would still like to know what you see when you look in the mirror.

SS

Drucilla,

As I mentioned before, you are not causing me any additional pain. You are helping me to see REALITY.

Your ex and my stbx sure DO sound similar!

I read the book "The Verbally Abusive Spouse" a few years ago (after the D), and mine sure qualified.

I almost bought that book. I read a description of it on-line and went to look for it at the B&N near my old job. They didn't have it, and I ended up never getting it. I should have just purchased it online the first time I read about it! I still think I might read it. Maybe I should get it now -- it might just open my eyes some more and make me thankful to be away from H.

I started getting the feeling he really hated women, and over time his actions and words we're convincing me I was right. This man had more problems than I knew about, much like your STBexH. We'll never really know what all his issues are...


Hmmmm. It's interesting that you said this. My C told me once that it seemed that my H hated women. But why? I don't get it. He adores his mom and his sisters. But then again, I overheard some disturbing conversations that H had with his 18 year old nephew. It almost seemed as if he were vicariously living through his nephew. H prided himself on giving his nephew boxes of condoms when he visited. And my impression was that it wasn't a "be safe" sort of a gesture. It was more of a "YEAH go out and get some" gesture. Every time he got his nephew on the phone he'd ask about his girlfriend and kind of pry into his sex life. I think H was a little disappointed that his nephew wasn't quite as much of a "go getter" as H apparently was. I heard H bragging to him about how he would go to nightclubs every night Thurs-Sun -- each night in a different town. He said he had a different girlfriend in each town and none of them knew each other. I can still hear him laughing about it. That doesn't sound like he respects women very much, does it. It sounds like he misses those days, doesn't it? I wish I had known all of this a long time ago - like BEFORE I got married.

For the guys --- PLEASE tell me that not all men are/talk like this. OK, I think I know the answer, but please tell me anyway.

Really, I have ever confidence that you will feel MUCH better about all this soon. It wasnt good, you're really not loosing much. He wasnt very sweet or comforting. You'll do better .

Thanks, I hope so.

SS,

I'm going to answer the easy question first. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I hope you don't mind.

How is work going, or is it too early to tell?

I hate to say it, but up to now, I'm a little disappointed. I don't feel like I fit in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I really miss my old co-workers. We were co-workers/friends/family. We would have stressful days, but we would have fun at the same time.

It's sooo different in my new job. The atmoshphere is different. It's so unprofessional. One of my supervisors makes fun of a particular employee in front of EVERYONE. It's shocking to me!

The subject of infidelity came up, too -- more than once.
One co-worker mentioned that a neighbor of hers is cheating on her H. She says the WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD knows about it. The OM runs out of the house just minutes before the H gets home from work. I asked, "hasn't anyone told the H about it? --- even anonymously?" Someone piped in, "If the H is so stupid not to realize what's going on, then he DESERVES to be cheated on!!!" Everyone thought it was a hoot! I was too shocked and choked up to even say anything.

On another occasion, one lady pointed out a single female co-worker to a single male co-worker. Tha male co-worker said, "Nah, she's not my type -- I only like the M type."

Why is infidelity such a joke to some people?

As for the actual work itself --- it's boring. Like Drucilla said, "not to toot my own horn" but I'm capable of a lot more. I'm used to a lot more. I guess that's what I get when I take a big pay cut.

I'm starting to wonder about my decision on taking this job. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I'll give it more time. It's got to get better, right?

Aren't you sorry you asked now?

SVB,

OK. I'm telling you. Not only that, but from my look around - at least amongst the men I see, very few are like that.

Some are completely unlike that.

-AD

SVB,

I'm sorry about your work environment. That stinks. But how's a girl to know beforehand?

I hope it improves, and if it doesn't you are in a big town. There's got to be alternatives.

-AD

Hi SVB,

I hope you are doing well! Maybe you should get that book! That'll get you all riled up! Make you forget about the poop-head in no time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> There is a thread on this book right now on the EN Board. Someone was even giving the book away for free, if you asked...


MB EN Board: The Verbally Abusive Spouse



After a few years married, I started getting a real 'men' against 'woman' feeling from my H. Like it was a war, and he needed to 'win'. His team vs. my team?

I asked him why he didnt pick a milder woman, one more easily controlled. Seemed he picked the hardest-headed women he could find then tried to break her. That's in the book, too.. some pick easy targets, some pick tuff nuts. I'm a tuff nut (been called worse!). I was raised in a very abusive household, parents screaming at the top of their lungs all the time... and I SWORE I wouldnt live in a house like that again. And there I was. I couldnt give in, so we'd just fight and fight. I was so stupid. I wish I'd gotten out sooner.

He thought his mother and sister were stupid twits (unfortunately, his mom wasnt too far off... she didnt give him many chances to think otherwise). I know he didnt respect his mother at all. He really seemed to think that women had their place, and anyone woman trying for different just had a chip on their shoulder about men and was trying to prove something. LOL. What a loser. OK, I gotta stop on the ExH... gonna funk me out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />.

I'm sorry you havent settled into your new job just yet. It takes time, and if you want to, you can start looking for something else in the mean time. Takes the pressure off when you already have a job. It also makes you feel better about the one you have knowing you an exit plan. You've been through so much, it's all just going to be odd for a while. Try to take it easy and give yourself time to adjust.

Are you getting out and having some fun on the weekends? Hanging out with your niece or new friends? Have you found the coolest pub in town yet? Found the cool coffee houses and used book stores? That's the first things I do when I hit a new town. I hope you are getting out! Have some fun this weekend, OK? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Take care - Dru

Dru,
You do such a good job.

S,
I am not sorry I asked.

I don't think I would stay there very long. It would drag me down. I seek out people to work with that will help me improve myself. LOL, I need all the help I can get.

If it was mostly good, with just a little bad here and there, maybe I could make it work, but what you describe sounds depressing.

For the guys --- PLEASE tell me that not all men are/talk like this. OK, I think I know the answer, but please tell me anyway.

NO, NO, NO, NO !!!

Somewhere, out there, someones saying a prayer. That You'll find one another.............

I think about you, alone in your apartment. I see you talk to Lenny and friends, but they don't answer back, except in your mind.

I hear you wonder about things. I see you doubt.

My wish for you is that you will be able to change the direction of your thoughts. From doubts, to planning a happy future.

I don't mean to minimize your loss. I grieve for what could have been for you. It's just that...........that you have so much going for you, too much to let this stop your progress.

Lets say you woke up this morning feeling different. Lets say you shook off the doubt, and had a feeling that good was just around the corner.

What would you imagine some of that good would be?
What would it look like to you?
(OK your salary would double, but I mean, what after that?)

SS

SS you are very sweet to say such things <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. You do so much good around here, I often feel bad that I cant keep up with more people. Something about Svb's situation that just kept running around in my mind. Guess just too many similarites to my own history (and that's a shame).

SVB, start looking for another job! That will give you something to do, more places to go, more people to meet, and, in a perfect world, maybe even a better job <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I LOVE the feeling of hunting down a better job while having another. Puts a little spring in my step... my little secret, then: ZING... "So long, [censored]!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> It's incredibly satisfying <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Some people just dont deserve my employment, you know? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Have a fun day - Dru

An update --

STBXH and I have been e-mailing each other a little.

He told me that he applied for a higher level position at another facility in his area.

He is also wondering if I could send him copies of our vacation photos.

None of this tells me that he has thoughts of reconciling on his mind.

I did a bad thing, too. I don't know why I did it, but I looked in his e-mail account. I still have his password (he has no clue that I know it). He had e-mails to and from his family.

There was one e-mail to a fellow that I didn't recognize. H forwarded a letter to this guy for proof reading. (that was my old job) It seems that H has some serious issues at work. The letter was a formal complaint against his boss. Not only that, but he's already tranferring to another store. See, a totally different story from what he told ME.

Like I said, I don't know why I even looked. It shouldn't matter to me anymore what H does in his life. I suppose what I found just proves to me that H will never change. I haven't really BEEN in his life for the past 1 - 2 years (or more), and I guess I never will.

It's tougher moving on than I thought. Why can't I let go?

These issues that H is having with his boss is nothing new. He's had many issues with co-workers and bosses. He's a very hard worker, but somehow, he always gets the impression that everyone is out to get him. To him, everyone else is lazy, and they are jealous of him, so they try to ruin his career. I read somewhere that this is common in abusive type people.

Oh well, it's not my problem anymore.

OK. I'm telling you. Not only that, but from my look around - at least amongst the men I see, very few are like that.

Some are completely unlike that.

Thanks for the feedback, AD. That's what I thought. I just needed to hear it, though.

I'm still wondering if I would just be better off alone.

Drucilla,

I asked him why he didnt pick a milder woman, one more easily controlled.

That, unfortunately, is me. I really should go get that book.

I'm sorry you havent settled into your new job just yet. It takes time, and if you want to, you can start looking for something else in the mean time. Takes the pressure off when you already have a job. It also makes you feel better about the one you have knowing you an exit plan. You've been through so much, it's all just going to be odd for a while. Try to take it easy and give yourself time to adjust.

I might give myself a year. I basically took this job as a foot in the door. I have good benefits, and after a year, I can apply for a higher level position. I might even have the opportunity to go overseas for a little while. I could possibly stick it out a little while longer for that. Only 10.5 months to go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Are you getting out and having some fun on the weekends? Hanging out with your niece or new friends? Have you found the coolest pub in town yet? Found the cool coffee houses and used book stores? That's the first things I do when I hit a new town. I hope you are getting out! Have some fun this weekend, OK?

I'm trying. I actually went to look at townhouses this past weekend. I'm probably jumping the gun a little on that, but I couldn't help myself. I went to a baseball game on Monday night.

It feels that I have to push myself a little to go out, but I'm trying.

SS,

Thank you for your feedback, too.

Lets say you woke up this morning feeling different. Lets say you shook off the doubt, and had a feeling that good was just around the corner.

What would you imagine some of that good would be?
What would it look like to you?

I'm feeling a little negative today, so I think I'd better answer that one tomorrow. I know what I want to say, but I don't think I'd do it very well today. I've had to go back and change my wording a thousand times today. I had to tone down the negativity. Trust me, I have my more positive moments! I'll try to come back then.

SVB,

Just saying "Hi".

About your H's lie:
Hmmm. Your H is having trouble at work and lies to you about it. What does it mean? On the positive side, he doesn't want to look bad in your eyes. Why does it still matter to him? I don't know. Habit maybe. Do you still depend on him financially? I would guess not. Some guys think they have to protect their women from any trouble they might run into. I don't know if that is it. My wife was/is rather insecure about my work. I could never discuss work problems with her. I didn't lie to her about it, but I just didn't discuss it with her. If she asked questions, I answered truthfully. Once I was "on notice" to make a deadline or lose my job. I didn't tell her. I made the deadline.

Probably this is just a plain ol' self-protection lie. He probably tells his family something similar - or as they are farther removed from the situation, he can tell them even more amazing stories.

What do you think? Should I have told my wife during the time I was "on notice"?

Feeling Down and etc.
SVB,

You just moved so maybe this doesn't fit your situation. Sometimes, I get stuck in a rut. Then, just making some seemingly insignificant change helps. Just driving home a different way makes me feel better.

Also, I always feel better in the morning than at night (unless I am dreading something in the morning).

Surviving makes me feel better! Go ride a roller-coaster - or one of those tower rides that shoots you up about 200 feet then drops you down again. Yes indeed! It is nice to survive! Whitewater rafting might be just the ticket. After 2 or 3 hours of fear, mildly sunburned, wet, half-drowned, sweaty, with blisters on your rowing hands and sore shoulders, you will be happy, I guarantee! Hmmm. I've got to get myself up to Ocoee with some group or another before the summer is over.

I'm not suggesting using adreneline as a drug. But problems tend to look smaller from a different perspective. A prudently chosen, intense experience can change the perspective.

-AD

Hi AD,

What do you think? Should I have told my wife during the time I was "on notice"?

I can understand the reason you didn't tell your wife. In a perfect world and in a perfect marriage, though, I think you shouldn't have to fear telling your wife anything. Wouldn't it have been nice if you had told her and she said that she wasn't worried because she had faith in you that you would get the job done? And if not, that she knows that you would bend over backwards to find a way to support your family? And that she would support you and pitch in any way that she can? I don't know - something along those lines.

I would want my H to open up his soul to me - which he didn't do - at least towards the end.

Unfortunately, we're not living in a perfect world.

As an update ---

I talked to my H today - for almost 2 hours. I broke down (I guess I'm really missing him) and I tried to call him yesterday. I called the wrong number (I couldn't remember it) so I sent him an email. He called me today.

I got some clarification on his job situation. (I didn't ask) He was offered the promotion at the other location. He was asked to start immediately, but his boss found out about it and flipped out. He came to H's apartment, banging on the door and screaming that he needed to talk to him. H didn't open the door. His boss continued to bang the door and yell, saying things like, "if you don't show up for work tomorrow, start looking for another job."

Well, H's superiors (above his boss) straightened out the situation. H starts his new job in a week, and his boss had to formally apologize to him.

H told me his news about the promotion and I said that I was happy for him. I am happy for him. He was due a promotion for a long time. This is the promotion he wanted to get before starting a family - back in the day. So I told him that I was happy for him and then I started to cry. DRATS! I couldn't control myself. This job is on the other side of town, so he's going to find an apartment close by. I apologized for crying - told him that I didn't mean to cry. He said, "that's ok." I said, "I can't help it because I guess this means we're really though - it's so final." I said that I wanted to be married forever. He asked," don't you think this is hard for me, too?" I said, "no, you're the one that wants to be free and single and start over again." I guess I should have just said, "is it?"

At one point, I asked him, "this is really it, isn't it?" He didn't say anything. There was dead silence on the phone for about 2 minutes. Finally, I just said, "forget it."

I really wanted him to say that he missed me and that we are making a big mistake. It never happened. It'll never happen. I'd probably take him back in a second if he said it - despite his crappy behavior in the past.

I'm sure that boo hoo-ing in front of him made me really attractive. I'm sure he's thanking his lucky stars to be away from someone so clingy and needy.

Well, after that ugly bit of convesation, I changed the subject. I started to ask him some more about his promotion and his other plans. We talked for at least another half an hour after that. He had plenty of advice on what kind of townhouse I should buy. We laughed about some things, too.

Uggggghhh. I'm never going to get over him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Tonight is rough.

SVB,

I stopped by and read your thread, but it's too late for me to try to come up with anything useful to say.

"I'm sorry you're having a hard time", doesn't seem enough.

Sorry,

-AD

Hi AD,

Thanks for reading and for your support.

Surviving makes me feel better! Go ride a roller-coaster - or one of those tower rides that shoots you up about 200 feet then drops you down again. Yes indeed! It is nice to survive! Whitewater rafting might be just the ticket. After 2 or 3 hours of fear, mildly sunburned, wet, half-drowned, sweaty, with blisters on your rowing hands and sore shoulders, you will be happy, I guarantee! Hmmm. I've got to get myself up to Ocoee with some group or another before the summer is over.

It's funny you should mention roller coasters. Guess what I'll be doing this weekend? hee hee I've had this planned for a couple of weeks already. I really hope that it helps to get me out of this serious funk that I've been in for the past few days. I just read StormyDakota's thread on the divorcing board. It got me bawling. I could have written what she posted word for word (except for the children part). ugggh so much pain everywhere.

As for the whitewater rafting, when I used to live in Colorado, I went whitewater rafting once when my best friend came out to visit. (H was with us,too)
I had a blast. I think our trip was mild, though, compared to what you described. Nevertheless, my friend fell out of the raft. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> She was OK, though.
I don't think there's any whitewater rafting around here. My friend wouldn't go with me even if there were. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

OK, time to go to sleep. I hope you get a good night's rest tonight.

SVB,

Where is SS when you need him? I think he was going on vacation. Otherwise, he would be here with some wisdom.

I'm still not able to respond to your post about your H's work.

I'll try a bit.

There are so many plans that we lay down - to plot a path for ourselves and our families through life. There are so many things which are stepping stones on our envisioned path - and when we no longer believe that the vision we had can become a reality, each one of those stepping stones now looks painfully futile.

That's why I don't sleep at the other house - even though W has moved out - and there is a bed there - and it is closer to my work - and I need to do a lot of cleanup there. Every thing I see there, every object, every piece of trash, every mark on a wall or floor or carpet, every room - is filled with the broken dreams. I can't sleep there.

So, your H's promotion (if it is real) is painful because it is as if he continues to lay down stones on the path you hoped to walk together, but now he walks it alone - and you are on your own lonely path. I don't know any cure for it. We just have to go through it. Eventually, since you don't have kids together, you can put him and his life-steps out of your sight - and perhaps out of your mind. Maybe it's better to experience the pain now rather than bury it, but I don't know.

Meanwhile, my w continues to stir me up with that little phrase she drops in now and then : "if we don't divorce...". I heard a lot of that yesterday, and as a consequence, didn't sleep well.

HAVE FUN WITH THE COASTERS!

-AD

Hi AD,

You're exactly right in what you wrote. H and I are on different stone paths. We are both laying down stones and the paths are slowly turning and will eventually be going in completely opposite directions.

I can relate to what you say about your house being filled with broken dreams. Broken dreams. That's the perfect way to word it. I've had to bring many reminders of broken dreams with me. I can't wait to get rid of all of them.
Unfortunately, I can't plan to purchase a townhouse, get ALL new furniture AND a new car in the next year or two.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Meanwhile, my w continues to stir me up with that little phrase she drops in now and then : "if we don't divorce...". I heard a lot of that yesterday, and as a consequence, didn't sleep well.

I have to admit. I'm jealous. I only wish that my H would give me ANY sign that he were having doubts.