I made some observations lying in bed this morning. Most can be interpreted positively I guess.

FWW has stopped listening to bloody love songs all day every day - HOORAY ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

She has put maybe 6 lbs on in weight - has stopped going to the gym 4 times per week in addition to her karate although she has the same time she had during the A.

She wears baggies again - gone to take SS to school wearing jeans and a Leicester Tigers rugby shirt. During the A she'd glam up even for that !

She wears just regular bras and panties again, not the sexy stuff/butt floss under her clothes

She has thrown herself into domestic stuff like laundry with a vengeance - ignored during the A and early withdrawal

She is trying REALLY HARD to put her wedding ring on again (she carries a sports injury to her knuckle which means it hasn't fitted for a few months)

She saw me trying hard to remove MY wedding ring ( while I put aftershave on - I hate the wrinkles under the ring that causes!) and she said earnestly: " what do you want to take that off for?". Again either committed to our M or scared that I am not as I am her last hope.

She wants a job - not sure if this is to fill her life with something more positive than Karate OR to give her financial independence in case she has another A...

She is a great indulgent Mom again and th ekids utterly love her. Great !

She is almost ALWAYS frisky, and appreciative of my SF efforts in a way she never has been in years. Maybe the grass wasn't greener ? Dunno. I'm just glad we're able to SF. I feared the shadow of OM would loom over our bed.

She seems EMBARRASSED to discuss the A right now, concentrating instead on future plans and 'together' stuff.

She is involving me in almost EVERYTHING she does:karate trips, days out, shopping, everything. Not quite POJA yet, but getting there slowly.

She is having less and less sad times per day, and more and more happy times. This is good !


I have a few questions regarding these, to no-one in particular !:

* Does life with me make her feel drab so she BECOMES drab?
OR
Was she uncomfortable trying to compete physically and in dress with OMs 32 YO glam blonde GF and is relieved to be out of it ? ( FWW is a lovely 40 YO). I tell her a lot how beautiful she is, how I can't take my eyes off her, but I wonder if she believes me. She has said in the past: " ah, but you love me - you can't see any wrong!".

* Why is she 'cleaving unto me' so hard right now, love or desperation for somewhere to live now OM has thrown her away ? A bit of both perhaps ? This is a bitter pill.

* Why do I love this girl more than my own life after all she's done to me ? Don't answer that ! LOL !

Ignoring the shadow of the A, our life looks like content married life right now. Almost a pity that we have so much painful stuff to discuss soon.

I will live "in the day" for a while and breathe a little easier. I need to charge my batteries and I think FWW needs some time to believe that I'm not going anywhere.

To any newbies in the throes of plan A, my FWW was as spiteful as ANY of yours just a few months ago. when the wise heads say it gets better it really does, usually. The storm calms, and so do we.

Dear Bob,

it's good to hear from you! I'm sure you doubted that you would ever be in the place you are right now just two months ago <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I guess the time ahead of you is sort of a balancing act. No pushing. Don't push away your own feelings and don't push your W.

It's very difficult for the WS to talk about something they feel so guilty about, never forget that. I didn't realise how OW felt until I said something like "I guess you'll have some fun memories of the A, I only have the pain." to which she replied "No, it feels like a big stone weighing down inside of me, and it will take me a long time to be in a good place with myself again." (That was before I found MB).

It's finding out what our S did during the A, and their fogginess after D-Day that hurt us. Our pain and emotions are directed to that person. But it's gone. Any decent person that realises he or she has made a mistake, and has detoxed from the addiction, isn't the same person anymore that they were during the A and the fog. In fact many times they can't even believe the things they did or said, as if it was someone else doing them.

I think a BS should avoid talking to the FWS as if they're still the same person who had the A, with the same set of emotions and selfish behavior. They're not. And they hate themselves for having been that way.

But you can't deny your own feelings and emotions either. I learned to state them as calmly as possible so my H wouldn't be afraid I would get even more upset if we'd talk about it. I guess it's also very hard to really comfort a person whom you have hurt yourself. The guilt is so overwhelming you'd need comforting yourself, but you'd feel you don't deserve it...

I guess the way to go is being gentle without "sweeping things under the rug" that will rot there and stink up the M. Not an easy thing to do but a great learning school for relationships in general.

Good luck to you my dear. Please vent here when you need to! Your healing has only just begun.

I'm sure you doubted that you would ever be in the place you are right now just two months ago .


Amen ! I never dreamed I/we would recover. I saw a DARK place for a while BH, makes this place now feel even better.

Your healing has only just begun.

Amen again ! Our healing HAS begun BH !! The disease is over and the healing has begun. What a wonderful thing to see !

Its really interesting that you TOO tell me how bad FWW feels about herself right now. I do not see any sign of this at all, but so many more experienced folks tell me this so I am thinking it is not a bad assumption for me to make.

She needs more time from me, mor egentleness from me. OK I can do that. Its early days. There are some complications but I must release my care for this.

Thanks for your care BH. I appreciate it very much.

<small>[ October 13, 2004, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Bob,

I haven't posted to you in awhile. In fact, embarrassed to say this, but stopped reading your threads after your reconciliation. I guess misery loves company and you were to dang happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

But I was happy for you, just in my situation it was hard to read over and over how much better things were with Bob Pure and FWW.

I'm moving out. Have most of my stuff out of the house. I wish the Homewrecker Steve would dump my STBX like what happened in you sitch, but there is no reason for him to do that. He doesn't live here, so it is just fantasy fun.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">* Why is she 'cleaving unto me' so hard right now, love or desperation for somewhere to live now OM has thrown her away ? A bit of both perhaps ? This is a bitter pill.

* Why do I love this girl more than my own life after all she's done to me ? Don't answer that ! LOL !
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These concerns you have are ones that circle around in my mind all the time. The self doubt, the unresolved pain.

I will be watching, from a safe distance to see how you navigate those questions. Maybe I'll get there someday and learn from your experience.

Bob, wonderful that things are going so well. I am going to grab the same thing Brownhair did, and that is your need to discuss some "things". I apply this to my own sitch and have always felt we will never heal and have closure without a thorough discussion as to the hows and whys. But I am starting to rethink that position. No doubt your W has learned a valuable lesson and it may not need much discussing unless of course you need it for you. It may be more loving to let this heal without discussion. I'm not sure myself. But the Chinese have a saying; "for those who understand, no explanaition is necessary and for those that don't, none will suffice. I think you and W both understand that she made a huge mistake. I would be curious to see how this progresses because I have been unable to discuss with my W, and I'm starting to lose the desire. Not necessarily a bad thing, I just think her embarrassment may be too great. An update, she is considering asking to join a new pool team and the "glow" of OM is wearing off very quickly. Very quickly, means 2 1/2 yrs later but rapidly none the less. Good luck and congrats again.

Bob

My wife has done the same exact things as yours...its scary to read....the sf stuff, dental floss, weight, everything....except the karate stuff....she gets upset when she forgets to put wedding ring on.....she takes it off when doing house work...

I have the same questions and issues. I am still suspicious and am convinced that she is better at hiding it....but on the other hand i cant ignore all the positives.

Tom Joad, I am so very sorry. I have acknowledged that our sit is better than most in here and yours is a stinker to be sure.

I am sorry, I pray for you, and please continue to wish us well. You never know what may happen here or there...

WOE I know what you mean but we MUST examine the affair together. If we do not examine it it may reoccur. I don't need to do it right now but someday before we can call ourselves 'recovered' we will have examine dall parts of the A.

Also, I have recognised MY contribution to a poor M pre-affair, aI have apologised for them and strived to fix them. That only happened through examination and admission. FWW must do the same. Right now she thinks that the A was her only contribution to the mess and that I was alone in mashing our M.

Also 'forgetting' the A is not healthy for FWW either in the long term IMO.

* JAH its spooky how these messes conform to templates isn't it ? All blessings !

Hi Bob,

I totally agree with you both needing to examine the A eventually. She will need to do some introspection and face why she felt entitled to have an A as well as how she allowed herself to have one.

She must also clearly understand what bounderies she needs to establish to avoid future A's.

After my H's major A we had some sessions of MC, but we really didn't tackle how he allowed the A to evolve and what he had to do to not have another. I thought things were fine now, we had our exciting honeymoon period and we let it go. I had HNHN and I just stuck it on a shelf because he didn't think we needed it. He resisted filling out the forms I had copied.

Consequently, he started visiting and having fun, casual chit chat with another woman two years into recovery. He ended that after I discovered him at her house.

Then two years later, when she was separated from her H, she recontacted him. (I actually gave her his cell phone number unaware.) I don't believe her intentions were that it would remain just friends. He, again, started the lying, deceitful, secretive behaviour right with her first cell phone call. I was so into trusting him again that I had stopped getting detailed billing about a year before....mistake.

He didn't understand that he could never have a friendship with a woman outside of us as a couple. He didn't understand any personal, intimate conversations are inappropriate and could lead to another A. I believe he felt entitled to the friendship and his privacy. NOT. In actuality, I believe he was in another A as soon as he received the call, didn't tell her to never call again, and didn't tell me about it. Supposedly,they didn't have PA until the last month or two of the A and then 'only' twice. Not sure that I'll ever really believe that even though he has made a clear commitment to radical honesty.

I am glad you understand that examining all this will be a necessary step in your recovery path. Don't ever think that: we are doing so well, we can just let it all go. Have you guys found a good counselor, or have you had any phone counseling with Steve or Jennifer?

Yes, it will be painful. I believe it will be worth the pain and hopefully ensure that another A won't happen in the future.