</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kyellow4:
<strong> SadFWW best of luck to you tonight. Don't be hitting snooze. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

H and I are going to nibble on some shrimp and watch some TV. Have a great night, I hope all goes according to plan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

KY </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds good KY...hey, isn't shrimp an aphrodisiac??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Have a great night yourself.

Hi girls.

Some of you may know me, but to those who don't, I've stated many, many times on this forum how valuable it is to have WSs and former WSs participate here. It is a learning experience and a full perspective is needed for the benefit of all interested in recovering their marriages and finding the good within them.

I wish you all success in finding the noble path and achieving the highest good.

Wasabi!!!(my way to say whats up)...
I just saw your topic Sadfww, and had to say hello. Very cute, and vey needed. For me anyway. I need the support from Fww's! I look for your posts! Time to brew the coffee...HUGS!!

hey I'll joing this gang as well.....me being one of ya'll.....i'm a FWW who wishes my now WH would dump the evil OW he has now and come home....

mmmmmmmmm....chocolate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> my other weakness... haven't quite gotten control over that one yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm 1.5 months out from NC/gained nearly ten pounds-can't keep my hands out of the "stress relief" drawer at work. Slowly coming out of the fog and depression, I hope. Thanx for starting this thread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

missinghimterribly, Jetgirl, sansan - good morning!

How's everyone doing today? I cr*pped out last night- shut my alarm off and went to sleep instead of getting up for my rendevous with my H. Uggghh.... My two year old had been up at 2 and I was up with him...and I was just so tired that I wasn't in the mood...SO, tonight instead!

WAT - thanks for your words too...your wise advice is always appreciated.

Ladies-

I am so confused...please help me! I can't seem to do anything right in my WH's eyes. Everything I do he finds fault in.

Last night, my H came home before he went to his sister's house. He wasn't supposed to--he said he was going to just leave right after work to go there.

He sat down and we chatted amicably. He asked me what I wanted to talk to him about. I said that I had a letter for him, gave it to him. I gently asked if he would consider letting me just stay in the house in another room. Reasons? Well, currently I'm staying with my sister...she has a small 2-bedroom duplex. It's cramped, I can't give her much money to help her out, she just got a new BF who is staying there also. It's just very difficult. He didn't reply.

Then, I told him that I'd set up an email acct. so I could recieve 2Scared's book. 2S asked me if I'd look at it and give him feedback. He said, "I know." I asked how he knew and he said he'd been reading my posts and figured out what the password was b/c it's the same one I use for just about all of my passwords. Now, there's absolutely nothing that I wouldn't want him to read or anything like that. I want my life to be an open book to him.

He countered that with, "You're complaining about me spending time with G (a former female friend of mine who, in 4 days asked my husband out for drinks 2 times, asked him if he wanted to move in with her after the house sold, and asked him if he wanted to keep his truck cap in her yard--all of these calls were made by her. One night when he was over at her house I asked her what was up...she said that I was accusing her of having something going on w/ my H. That's the nutshell of it) and you're setting up this 'private' email acct." I told him that I set that up, so I could have my privacy, so that nobody could have my personal information. G, on the other hand, was calling him, etc.
He also said, "You'd better be glad you told me about that." He said that I'd set the email up Mon. I spoke to him Tues. and didn't tell him till last night. Well, in all honesty, there were two things that I forgot to tell him on Tues., and that was one thing. But I did tell him the next time I spoke with him (yesterday).

He said that I spend too much time writing on this site and not enough time reading. I told him that I do read a lot. I write when I feel that I can be of some help or when I want some feedback. I do read a ton. And I do take the a lot of the advice that is given to me.

He also told me that I'm a hypocrite. I replied with, "I've asked God to forgive me. He has. I am no longer a hypocrite," He said, "Well that may be [God's forgiven me], but I haven't!"

Then, he said, "There's things that I can live with and there are things that I can't live with. I won't live like it was before." I said, "I know!" It wasn't good before the A and that's why I want to go to counseling.

As he was leaving he said, "I have some advice for you. Go find a lawyer."

As he walked out the door, I followed him to his truck. I begged him to try with me...to seek counseling together. He said, "We'll see." He also said that he doesn't trust me or respect me and never will.

What I don't get is that all of the stuff that he's read says not to make any decisions when your emotions are so crazy. It also says that it takes time.

I'm truly confused and at a complete loss. I am working on myself right now. I think that he sees that. I think that maybe he just lost his temper when he told me to get a lawyer. I don't know if he's trying to make me angry and hurt me by saying these hurtful things or what. I know that he's in pain right now and that might be why he's lashing out. I talked to my mom last night and she said that the only thing I can do is keep doing right. If he's not willing to see that I'm trying, then there is nothing more I can do. While that's true, I'm still here crying my eyes out, not knowing which was is up and which way is down.

Rae

Rae:

I'd like to give you some advice. I'm a BH, and now my W and I are getting D. Our reconciliation failed, but out of that I feel I can offer others warnings not to succumb to the same pitfalls that we did.

You suggestions, while well intended on your part, really mean to your BH that, once again, he's wrong. "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!" And, not good enough. Once again, you've got the right answer, and all must follow. He's thinking, "Well, little Miss Waive-My-Legs-In-The-Air-For-OM, should I go and have a fling, too? Will that enlighten me? After all, you've got all the answers, don't you?"

You did blow it by not telling him about the email account. That was, in his eyes, proof that you do not really respect or value him. It's a sign that you don't trust him, but here you are expecting him to trust you. You have to be absolutely open to him. No secrets, no privacy. Especially if he's not to have them, either.

Stop trying to "educate" your H. Right now, you have no credibility with him. That's where the hypocrite comment comes from.

There is nothing more infuriating for the betrayed than the double standard. You can't hold one set of values, one code of conduct for him that you don't or won't for yourself. You can't hold your needs, wants, and hopes as inviolate, and then turn around and dismiss his. You can't expect him to have a greater moral character or higher threshold for tolerance than you. Right now it might seem that he is occupying the moral high ground, and therefore he may appear to be the morally stronger. But, he is only human.

What's good for the goose...

Just listen to him. Not what he says, but rather what he doesn't. Don't forget - you humiliated and emasculated him. Right now, he is too embarassed to share with you his innermost thoughts. He is putting on a brave face, but one that he hopes will mask his true feelings. This way, he does not make himself vulnerable to further hurt.

Have empathy, and I mean genuine empathy for him. You have no idea just how humiliating it is for a BH. You have demonstrated him to be utterly disposable; it is hard to feel you can approach anything like parity in an R when the other partner was able to replace you so readily.

Have patience. If you try to impose your schedule and timeline on him, you are once again showing him that he is wrong, you know better, blah-blah-blah. You are taking the superior role in the R, and relegating him to the inferior one.

And, if it ever comes up, let him know that OM was not better intimately.

The bottom line, just validate what your H is going through, even the mistakes. Especially the mistakes. I think that too many FWS, while intimately aware of their foibles ("I'm only human! I made a huge mistake!"), are not prepared to accept the human frailties or weaknesses of their BS. But, allow him to make mistakes on the road to recovery, and then grant him the same foregiveness for his as you want for yours.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uphill:
<strong>
You suggestions, while well intended on your part, really mean to your BH that, once again, he's wrong. "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!" And, not good enough. Once again, you've got the right answer, and all must follow. He's thinking, "Well, little Miss Waive-My-Legs-In-The-Air-For-OM, should I go and have a fling, too? Will that enlighten me? After all, you've got all the answers, don't you?"

Stop trying to "educate" your H. Right now, you have no credibility with him. That's where the hypocrite comment comes from.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uphill- not trying to be obnoxious- but truly- what exactly are you talking about here? I'm confused! That isn't anything abnormal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm just not sure which part of RAe's post you are referencing.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uphill:
<strong>

There is nothing more infuriating for the betrayed than the double standard. You can't hold one set of values, one code of conduct for him that you don't or won't for yourself. You can't hold your needs, wants, and hopes as inviolate, and then turn around and dismiss his. You can't expect him to have a greater moral character or higher threshold for tolerance than you. Right now it might seem that he is occupying the moral high ground, and therefore he may appear to be the morally stronger. But, he is only human.

What's good for the goose...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">??? Again, I still am confused. Is she supposed to condone him having an affair? I'm probably missing the point so please do educate me! I mean this sincerely.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uphill:
<strong>
Just listen to him. Not what he says, but rather what he doesn't. Don't forget - you humiliated and emasculated him. Right now, he is too embarassed to share with you his innermost thoughts. He is putting on a brave face, but one that he hopes will mask his true feelings. This way, he does not make himself vulnerable to further hurt.

Have empathy, and I mean genuine empathy for him. You have no idea just how humiliating it is for a BH. You have demonstrated him to be utterly disposable; it is hard to feel you can approach anything like parity in an R when the other partner was able to replace you so readily.

Have patience. If you try to impose your schedule and timeline on him, you are once again showing him that he is wrong, you know better, blah-blah-blah. You are taking the superior role in the R, and relegating him to the inferior one.

And, if it ever comes up, let him know that OM was not better intimately.

The bottom line, just validate what your H is going through, even the mistakes. Especially the mistakes. I think that too many FWS, while intimately aware of their foibles ("I'm only human! I made a huge mistake!"), are not prepared to accept the human frailties or weaknesses of their BS. But, allow him to make mistakes on the road to recovery, and then grant him the same foregiveness for his as you want for yours. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I completely agree that WS should have greater tolerance b/c of their past sins. Human frailities should be accepted and forgiven on both sides.

Question for you- you said:

"You have no idea just how humiliating it is for a BH. " and " You are taking the superior role in the R, and relegating him to the inferior one.

And, if it ever comes up, let him know that OM was not better intimately."


Do you think it is as humiliating an experience for a BW? Or is there a gender difference?

UPhill-

I am just as confused as SFWW here. I was wondering the same things. How am I trying to "Education" him? How am I saying that I have all the answers? My letter was actually a letter trying to say that I don't have all the answers...please please please tell me, specifically, so taht I can avoided him taking me that way.

I did tell him that I know that he's angry b/c of me...that he's angry b/c he's in pain. Doesn't that count as validation? I seriously wish you could've heard the whole conversation, b/c I left a lot out. I do appreciate the male perspective. It's obvious that males and females communicate differently, b/c my intentions WERE NOT meant as you took them or as my H took them.

Still confused-
Rae

Rae, I`m a BH that has rebuilt my M. I know what uphill is talking about. I`ll try to explain.

He sat down and we chatted amicably. He asked me what I wanted to talk to him about. I said that I had a letter for him, gave it to him. I gently asked if he would consider letting me just stay in the house in another room. Reasons? Well, currently I'm staying with my sister...she has a small 2-bedroom duplex. It's cramped, I can't give her much money to help her out, she just got a new BF who is staying there also. It's just very difficult. He didn't reply.

This is the "suggestions/wrong part" part. A BH feels that he was not good enough, was fawed, could not do anything right. Have lost all control. Your gently asking him to move back in is telling him that he is still wrong(he probably had a time line in mind) and robs him of control.

Then, I told him that I'd set up an email acct. so I could recieve 2Scared's book. 2S asked me if I'd look at it and give him feedback. He said, "I know." I asked how he knew and he said he'd been reading my posts and figured out what the password was b/c it's the same one I use for just about all of my passwords. Now, there's absolutely nothing that I wouldn't want him to read or anything like that. I want my life to be an open book to him.

This is where the hypocrite comment comes from. He has been reading this site, not just your posts either. He knows ALL about radical honesty. He knew on monday about the e-mail account. on TUES you didn`t tell him. That fact has been burning inside him until you told him.

He countered that with, "You're complaining about me spending time with G (a former female friend of mine who, in 4 days asked my husband out for drinks 2 times, asked him if he wanted to move in with her after the house sold, and asked him if he wanted to keep his truck cap in her yard--all of these calls were made by her. One night when he was over at her house I asked her what was up...she said that I was accusing her of having something going on w/ my H. That's the nutshell of it) and you're setting up this 'private' email acct." I told him that I set that up, so I could have my privacy, so that nobody could have my personal information. G, on the other hand, was calling him, etc.

This is the double standard. He sees the private e-mail account as your means to hide things from him. And you want him to be an open book to you. Remember he knows all the MB principales by now. So he is judging you by them because you picked them to rebuild your M.

Hope this helps,

RG

Hi Rae. It’s late and I don’t know if I can write down my thoughts clearly or not, but I’m going to give it a try. I’m a FWW, 2 years and 2 months past d-day. What I’m going to try to write is based on my own experience.

Being a WW trying to win back her H requires a whole new mindset than what you’re used to. I agree that God has forgiven you, but your H needs more time. I know you know that there is a price to pay for being wayward, and part of that price is loss of privacy. In order to win back your H’s trust, you have to practically consider that even your very thoughts are no longer your own. It’s time to be very open about every decision you make, and to consider your H’s thoughts and feelings first about everything.

What I mean is, before you set up any accounts on the internet of any kind that require any type of password or whatever, speak to your H first. Then, don’t tell him you’re going to do it...ASK him if it’s o.k. with him. If he says no, don’t do it. Listen to how your H says he feels and consider his feelings, even if you don’t understand them or disagree with him.

Maybe an example would help. I know your post was not about NC, but I’m just using the topic as my example. I want to share a light bulb moment that I had that changed my perspective in recovery.

At one point, my H and I were discussing my NC with FOM. I kept trying to tell him that continued contact was not romantic, not a continuation of the A (foggy, I now know). He kept telling me that to HIM it felt like further contact was continuation of the A. We went back and forth about it, and I just kept thinking he was wrong – that his feelings were wrong. Then, suddenly, it hit me, and I FINALLY realized that what I thought and felt didn’t matter. If I wanted to stay M, I had to consider my H’s feelings to be all that mattered on the subject.

I don’t know why I was so dense up until that moment. For some reason, it seems to really take a lot of us a while not just to come out of the fog, but to REALLY see the damage we did by having an A, and the extent of the hurt our H’s have suffered. I'm ashamed to admit it, but it's true.

Keep praying, and like your mom said, keep doing right. Ask God to show you how you need to change, but be prepared - what He shows you is going to hurt (although God has a way of being gentle and softening the blows a little). God bless you as you go through this.

Sincerely,

Rose

<small>[ October 17, 2004, 02:49 AM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

You know I think I should be here as well because nothing seems to be going well as I thought it was.
I usually post on 'Just found out'.

Now I know and accept this is my fault that we are where we are, however that said, I wonder if now my H just thinks its not worth trying to hard and is looking out for greener pastures.

Maybe I’m just being a bit paranoid and extra sensitive because I cheated on him , I’m not sure but maybe you gals can help here.

Ok it took me 4 months since D day to finally get all the details out about the affair, the whole thing, the sex, where, how, when, all of that. Feel lower than you can believe about that discussion.
I know I did myself no favours by refusing to discus all the details until now but admit to fear, fear he would leave or tell me to go and rot in hell. But in any event I didn’t until last week.
We have a very good MC who has done wonders so far but my H has stopped going for the last 2 sessions. MC was a bit concerned about his withdrawal but says give it time.

Ok, since that day he’s had a few phone calls on his work mobile, goes to the study closes the door. He has disappeared for some hours daily and last night was out to 4.30 in the morning & came home pretty well loaded. I had a call early on from him saying he was drinking with the boys and would be home by taxi late. Mm ok. Maybe

I have been giving him some space because after our discussion he didn’t want to be near me at all and I did expect that. Didn’t think to much about any of this until just about an hour ago.

He was supposed to go to collect some timber for the patio hours ago. When I asked my son if he knew if Dad was going to pick up anything else he said I don’t think so but he did get a call from Lena about some door or other he said yesterday he would fix for her..
So when did he talk to her yesterday???
Ok Lena is a female staff Sgt who runs his office at the barracks and is about 26 or so and reasonably attractive .

Alright I know that I am hyper sensitive and I may be a hypocrite but if he even looks at any woman right now I get all sh*tty..
I accept that I am probably just being a jealous selfish so & so but do you think I need to worry or am I just allowing my fears to get my imagination working overtime????

Please just tell me I am being stupid here!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

RG:

Thanks. That is EXACTLY what I meant. I'm glad that you, as a BH who was able to successfully reconcile with your WW, replied. It provides balance.

Ladies, do not for one minute assume that recovery is inevitable. It is something you must work for. It involves a radical change in your thinking, just as Rose55 said.

Stop focussing on what our BH OUGHT to be thinking and feeling, and focus on what he is thinking and feeling. That is validation - being able to see and accept where he is, emotionally, and what is going through his mind.

Most affairs are for unmet needs. You had holes in your lives that OM was able to fill. Did you ever think that your H has unmet needs, and may have had these for as long as you? But, he didn't have an A to get them filled; he just accepted that you don't get everything you want in life. Perhaps you only get what you deserve, and he's thinking that he didn't deserve to have yor fulfilling his ENs. But,life goes on and you suck it up.

So, what are the barriers to recovery in your H's mind? Fear. Fear that it is he who is being given the second chance. Fear that he will be found still not good enough. Fear that his needs will never get filled. Fear that the OM will forever be in your heart. Whenever you have an argument or disagreement, you will retreat in your mind to your fantasy A, and "Mr. Perfect".

Fear that you did truly love OM, and will come to resent your H even more. Fear that when you make love, you have to think of OM in order to get through it. That you'll compare your H to OM, and he'll be found wanting.

Fear mostly that you are settling for your H, but then he is settling, too.

Just validate your H. He is a human being, a person of worth, just like you. He has wants and needs. He has fears. He makes mistakes. But mostly, he doesn't want to be treated like a pair of shoes or handbag - acquired or disposed of as you desire.

RG - you reconciled. I think it would be wise to tell these women what your FWW did that worked.

So, is this essentially about POJA- especially with triggers such as private email accounts etc?
I can see what you are saying if I'm interpreting this correctly.

Oh...and by the way- thank you LH For posting here- it is very helpful to us and I hope you will continue to comment!

<small>[ October 17, 2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Sadfww ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by aussieswife:
<strong>
Alright I know that I am hyper sensitive and I may be a hypocrite but if he even looks at any woman right now I get all sh*tty..
I accept that I am probably just being a jealous selfish so & so but do you think I need to worry or am I just allowing my fears to get my imagination working overtime????

Please just tell me I am being stupid here!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, Aussie has posted quite a bit here- I would really be shocked if he decided to have a "revenge" A after reading all of the horrors here and experiencing it himself. I honestly think he is just needing a bit of time to process everything you told him- and has withdrawn a bit to do so.

Well I so hope that’s the case.
I don’t think he’d do anything out of revenge but he may be thinking he has no obligation because I failed him utterly.
Its 10.45pm here and he only came home at 9.30 tonight, no timber, no nothing so I don’t know what to think.
I just have a horrible sick feeling in the pit of my stomach

Thanks, RG for your reply...I get it more clearly now. Thanks, Rose, for your input as well. RG--please do tell us what your FWW did that was right. I will take these suggestions to heart.

What's POJA?

As of now, thanks to my H's sister, my H and I are going to have a different system during this separation time. We are going to reevaluate every two weeks with no contact in between. During the week, my H will stay at the house and I'll stay at my grandparents' during the week (so that I'm not in my sister's way) and on weekends, he'll stay with his sister and I'll stay at the house.

Rae

AW= <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I feel so bad for you, you probably thought things would get better right away if you told Aussie all the details. AW, they will!!! get better. But right now, he has to digest and assimilate all the information, that he thought he wanted to know. I am sure he wanted to know, but before he was just guessing but now you told him everything!!! He probably is feeling the same as when he found out about the affair. So, now he has to go thru all those initial emotions. AW, I think you and I are similar in one thing, and that is, we always think the worst will happen because of what we did. You know and I know our husband loves us, but we still dont understand why! We still dont understand why would they want to keep us! But ...I think they really do, want to keep us as their wives. but their love for us is so big that knowing the details of the affair, makes them hurt so much. They cannot understand how these women that they love so much are capable of such act!!
AW, I am sure he will be coming out of this soon. Give him time, show him you care for him. Show him your love, by just going to him and asking him how is he. By just touching his hand, even if you think he does not want your touch. He needs you more than ever. He needs to know you are there becausse you love him.
I am amazed how much damage ,something that started so innocently (for me anyways) turned into such horrible mess.
Please, dont give up on your husband, he hasn't either!!

Take care
Myrta

With all due respect to my fellow BH, I would like for you to consider starting another thread to address the issues that Rae has brought forth. Let's not hijack this thread for WW/FWW and drive away the women who could give us a great deal insight into their thoughts and feelings. Thank You.