Lately I've been wondering about WS finding or being directed to MB.

I'm thinking especially of the Harley "plans" and all the threads discussing tactics and so on...

When a WS discovers these things, does he/she feel there is some sort of dishonest, maybe even malicious, manipulation being attempted on him/her?

When is the right time for a WS to be told about MB? When a reluctant WS shows up here, he/she doesn't usually stick around too long.

GC

gc:

speaking of 2long! (my ears were burning)

"When a WS discovers these things, does he/she feel there is some sort of dishonest, maybe even malicious, manipulation being attempted on him/her?"

Yes. I say that because it's coming from a foggy brained WS when it happens like that. Check out VM's thread. 2VM called us a cult! Okay, so we're a cult. Is it dishonest? Yes, I've felt that way many times. Is it necessary suspension of honesty? Hm... This falls in with "do you want 2 be right or do you want 2 be M'd?". And, after all, it's an admittedly drastic RESPONSE (not reaction) 2 the chaos brought on by the WS. But manipulative? Yes, in a benign sort of way, it seems like it is. Malicious? No possible way, though the WS will believe it 2 be so.

And the main point is that the plans are for the BS, not acts perpetrated on the WS (though they will continue 2 believe that they are).

"When is the right time for a WS to be told about MB? When a reluctant WS shows up here, he/she doesn't usually stick around too long."

I told my W about MB within a month of me coming here. I invited her 2 read and even post here. She wasn't interested. Ahout a year after d-day, I started a thread "what is marriage" per her own request, and copied and pasted the entire thread in an email. She said I set up the respondents 2 answer in a certain way. She wasn't interested in posting. Still isn't. Still is "insulted" that I come here.

As for WSs sticking around long (or not). THe ones that come here of their own volition DO stick around. Those that do so because they know their BS is here probably come here for ulterior motives - like 2 find out what the BS is "planning" 2 manipulate them - and when they do, they don't stick around long because they have the "answers" before they boot up their computers.

Did sparrow come here? Is that why you've been quiet the past few days?

best,
-ol' 2long

No, 2long. I'm sure the sparrow doesn't know anything about MB.

If I haven't been around much, it's because I've been so busy. Keeping a house all by yourself especially an old one, is lots of work. I can never seem to quite keep up.

I think the "manipulation" part of this effort is the one most WS are probably most likely to be troubled by. The word has a negative connotation to most of us. I've rationalized these plans as being a different way of communicating with a person who has lost her ability to communicate in the usual ways.

GC

GC, for me it was perfect timing. I was done with the A. NC was in place, and it was a place for me to recovery and understand all the dynamics of the A process.

During the A, I think it would have shook me, but if you read some of the fog bound post from other WS, they defend with everything in them that it is true love and they found their soulmate, they think we are all crazy.

I was pointed here by the OM's W. MB has helped me R myself so much, MB was better for me, by far, than IC. I understand why I chose this path, hate it, but understand it.

GC, I would say the timing has to be perfect. A fog bound WS, would just think we are all manipulative and against them, gaining up on them with our twisted views of M. They would think we just don't understand their "connection" blech!!

KY, my 2 cents

Yes, as 2long hinted, my W's reaction to MB was pretty violent and dismissive, both here on the board itself as well as in our private discussions.

Even after I explained that it wasn't a "cult" and asked her to read some of SH's principles, she still dismissed this place, saying that it's not pertinent to OUR situation because one of us is not the true BS or the true WS, we're both some of both in different ways...and to her, the more badly damaged BS (her) isn't interested in rebuilding, so Plan A principles don't apply to her.

I think she came here too soon. She stumbled on it by accident, I'm sure. And she probably will never come back - partly because she doesn't want to hear the truth of her A, but also because she just has that personality that thinks this is all too cultish.

gc:

" Keeping a house all by yourself especially an old one, is lots of work. "

You bet it is! How old is your house? Ours 2rned 117 years old in August (got the newspaper clipping of its construction 2 prove it!).
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

My H was suspicious of MB at first - during the first three months after Dday, where he continually lied about the nature of the A. Needless to say he was still foggy. Not in the A any longer but foggy b/c he was lying.

After that he would tell me that this place was prolonging my pain, inciting my emotions against him etc. That was before he "got it." When he finally realised that this place has been my saving grace for the most part and an integral part of my healing, he was on board.

He does post sometimes. He will mostly read with me if I'm online when he's home, or I print out thread that are relevant and he reads them.

OK - I was weird enough to actually take all those printed threads and three-hole punch them into a binder! (dork) But I refer to these threads when I feel I am stuck with an issue. We have both found them very helpful!

Gray,

I sometimes think Plan A is manipulative if it isn't used by the BS to change themselves permantly. I have seen a few posters on here do everything to get their spouses back, but then once they have them they start putting all these demands on the WS.

Well in my opinion they chose to "Plan A" their WS instead of divorcing them, so they have also chosen to put up with the crap they get to put up with when the WS comes back. Plan A without clear cut boundaries and sincere change by the BS in my opinion can be a farse and a trick used to get the WS back, and it often backfires. How can there be that much change from the WS when they have not experienced any type of consequence for their actions? ... no pain, no growth.

Only in instances where as in KY's sitch, she realized on her own that her marriage was more important to her than the affair, does the WS have some type of enlightenment which can lead to very good permanent changes by the WS as well as the BS and then they both would need MB to understand the dynamics and recovery process needed after the infidelity, and how they both contributed.

I like Plan A if it is for real, if the BS really has changed the behaviours they had that may have been damaging. And that is no guarantee that the WS has changed so the BS gets them back crap and all. Their choice, and they accept what they get, without a lot of whining.

I personally like Plan B in instances where the affair is still on going, done lovingly and with the path home clearly defined and with boundaries, so the BS has an out if needed and the WS understands that they have work to do and rules to follow. But that is me and I do not share children and a lifelong history with someone, so I would have less to lose in a divorce and more to gain. As my daughter and my home is very happy and we have always been just the two of here. Actually I'm probably not a very good one to be answering this question, but since I already spent this much time on it, well ...

If I were a WS and wanting to recover a marriage that my spouse was wanting out of, then I would most definately need this place to learn how to woo him back through my own changes (Plan A) and also to understand what the betrayed party has been through as well as myself.

I would say the right time would be when they ask, the same as in any recovery, self improvement program. Only are they ready when they seek it.

So yes and no to your question.

Edited to add: I just reread that and <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I think I need a glass of wine!

<small>[ October 26, 2004, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

OK - I was weird enough to actually take all those printed threads and three-hole punch them into a binder! (dork) But I refer to these threads when I feel I am stuck with an issue. We have both found them very helpful!

Fraggles, I just read this from you and <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
you are so cute! That is probably what I would do too - holes, binders, title pages, cross ref! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> How cute!

I found MB, GC, because MBing was just what I wanted to do and I was looking for guidance, ANY guidance to help me back to my marriage.

But what my post is really to say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I printed all the articles from the site and put them in correct order, then bound them with a plastic cover sheet and a nice backing sheet. I still have that original folder but I haven't read it for a while. I also gave it to H to read before I found the forums. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Illegal post from work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Jen

OK - I was weird enough to actually take all those printed threads and three-hole punch them into a binder! (dork)

ROFLMAO - i guess i'm a dork too, no hole punching or three ring binder but a nice tidy manila (sp) envelope does the trick!

OK - I am glad to hear I am not the only dork here! LOL (I kind of figgered I wasn't!)
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Dorks rule!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> Lately I've been wondering about WS finding or being directed to MB.

I'm thinking especially of the Harley "plans" and all the threads discussing tactics and so on...

When a WS discovers these things, does he/she feel there is some sort of dishonest, maybe even malicious, manipulation being attempted on him/her?

When is the right time for a WS to be told about MB? When a reluctant WS shows up here, he/she doesn't usually stick around too long.

GC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually came across MB several years ago when trying to figure out what to do about the current state of my marriage. I read a few things- but didn't end up really DOING anything. I think I was just too stressed at that time for a number of reasons to think proactively about working on myself and my marraige.

This time around I came back to MB for two reasons- both springing from the same event. I was still unhappy with how lackluster my marriage was. However, what really got me going was when my best friend told me that her H had been cheating on her- and I got to witness first hand the absolute ugliness, pain and horror that she dealt with for several months (and is still dealing with) - and pretty much saw their marriage fall apart. This scared the living daylights out of me and made me realize that the marriage that I was assuming would just be there in the future had no such guarantee without some significant work on my part. The MB board has been SOOOO helpful to me. Reading the posts of the BH in particular has helped me glimpse what my H went through <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and has also helped me a lot by figuring out how to *woo* him back. JL of course being instrumental in this process.

We still have miles to go before I would say that we are fully recovered- but I feel a lot happier not only about our marriage- but also about our family life then I have in eight years.

I also wanted to add that the *plans* and *tactics* appeal to me- I like seeing a concrete PLAN on how to do something that has reaped good results in other situations. As Weaver pointed out, however, I do think that it could be possibly manipulative if the BS doesn't really intend to keep up with the changes made in Plan A. Obviously, the WS will have his/her work to do as well, (!!!!!) but I think it is important that the BS changes that bring the WS back/negotiate no contact are real.

<small>[ October 27, 2004, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Sadfww ]</small>

I discovered MB while I was searching the net for information one opposite friendships, communication between men and women through Internet and e-mail etc. While I was doing a search the search engine gave me a link to one of Dr Harley articles and that’s how I discovered MB’ers and learn about the existence of EA's. At that stage I felt very confused and MB’ers open my eyes and gave my direction and insight into my own situation.