I'm having trouble with S too. Physically great but emotionally difficult.
To answer your question about how FWH feel, my H said that S was not better, only different.
I have a hard time believing that!

Intellectually I know that when a person enjoys sex it is very stimulating and arousing, and body shape/size does not matter. So if you act aroused and sexy your H will be turned on.
I just have to get those pictures out of my mind. I saw her naked and she has a better body than me, is younger, no kids, and has had multiple partners - lots of experience. I only have my H.

So I know what you are talking about and can only hope that time will heal all of these hurts.

My H's OW was also my BF, and thing I really don't get is that she does not look better than me, I always showed that I wanted him and he still had the A. I wonder at times if I would have taken the whole thing easier if it had been someone better or better looking, but in that case I think my self esteem would have taken quite a blow from it as it did anyway but it could have been worse. I guess she was at least easier to talk to than I was for whatever reason, I just don't know.

Bear-
Yes H and I were suppose to have a date last night. He went bowling and then went grocery shopping with his buddy who left to go hunting with him today. I was dissappointed yeah, let him know that too. I have gotten use to it. HE was suppose to be home at 10ish, He called at 10:40 and said he would be home late (figured that already <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) he got home about midnight... I do not think he realizes how hard it is to get someone to watch your kids at 10pm just so you can have some out of the house time to reconnect with your h, second time he has blown me off... At least this time he actually felt badly about it.


AndrewA- took your advise, had a heartfelt conversation about what is lacking in the SF department, and I talked, he talked, and we had a VERY nice night...Hopefully it does not fly outta his head while he is sitting in a deer stand all weekend... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

KMEJ....I'm glad I could be of help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I doubt he'll forget about it...in fact, the thought of it is probably keeping him warm as he waits and waits and waits for that deer.

By the way..I want to add my agreement with what otehrs have said about your situation. If it really is a busive - and it sounds liek it is, at least emotionally - your FIRST resposnibility is to protect yourself and your children.

Thanks AndrewA. I will.

My H and I talked about that last night too. Interesting to hear his side of things. Still my fault of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (his words). H says he does not think it is that bad.

Last night was a good night for conversation, and an ok night for SF. WOuld have been a great night for SF had he not asked me in the middle of things if I would please reconsider the whole wife swapping thing, or at least convince my friend for a 3some. That put the emergency breaks on, we again talked and he said sorry, and we moved on from there. He still wants it, I still say no. He says we will talk again when he gets home on Monday.

KMEJ,

Two things:

1.) If you said 'ok,' would your friend agree to having a threesome? Sorry, but..it sounds like she and hubby have already talked about this. That's another reason to re-consider whether you want her as a friend - and to stand firm on your request that she NOT talk to him.

2.) You should set a clear limit on what is acceptable and not acceptable to talk about. We've had this issue also. My wife got very unformortable with some of hte fantasies I would talk about. We realized that for the sake of our marriage, we'd have to establish and abide by some rules - we have.. and things are better than ever. Make it clear to hubby that talking about other people in bed is a major love-buster for you.

I know that my friend and her husbadn want very much to switch. My friends H thinks I am a tease because I say no. I am not sure what my friend would say. We have had many a conversation the 4 of us while we play cards, and that was joked about and talked about in humor, never realized anyone was taking it seriously...

You are right about the boundaries in bed though.

Obviously, that is NOT a good situation. Because..if she is willing to switch, she's probably likely to do it with him alone. In other words...the "switch" aspect of it may simply be a way for your friend to assauge her guilt. She can have a go at your H, without feeling bad about it, since her hubby will essentially be cheating also.

I'd suggest that you cut this couple out of your life. They obviously want a lifestyle that is different from the lifestyle you want. That's THEIR choice. But...it's threatening YOUR marriage.

Something to think about that is for sure, I am logging out now to go spend the day with my children. Hope you have a nice day as well.

kmej,

What is your faith? What do you want? This is a definite line in the sand point. Think of it not only in the aspects of 'switch', which is absolute garbage... think of it more as your husband asking your permission to have sex with another woman. That is all he is doing. The really disgusting part of this is that he is trying to bring you into it by offering you up to another man, a sacrifice so that he can have sex with that guys wife. Now, unless you are a swinging couple, I think this would upset you tremendously.

As a man, I can tell you, if my wife brought this idea to me, the thought of another ladyfriend of hers...well, of course there would be temptation in it, that is the point...but, the thought of having to give her to another man in the process, well, that is enough to sober any temptation away. I would hazard a guess, your husband is already involved with another lady, if he is offering you away like this. It sickens me and honestly, I wish I could come knock a bit of sense into you.

When you got married, or when your hsuband came home and you two decided to try and reconcile, at what point did you two agree to pimp each other out? I would take this opportunity to say this is the line, you don't understand what I want from our marriage...get on board, 100% or get out. This would be the end of the bowling nites away, the disappearing for time frames beyond 15 minutes, the cancelled date nights, the general disrespectful garbageg he does to you day in and day out...even this stupid hunting trip he's on...you two should be together, or, it should not happen. Period. I'm sorry, I'm a bit upset now as I think this all out...you deserve much better than this. I know you are fighting for the family here, but, is this man, the man you want teaching morals to your children? Is this the example you want them to view for love in a house? For you son to see how to treat his wife? All of these are questions that are extremely relevant if you are simply fighting to save the family. There are selfish expectations, and then there are simple rights we have in a marriage, you are being transgressed upon all the time. Is your father around? I think if I said the things that you are told to my wife, she would talk to her dad, and he would come 'talk' to me. Personally, I wish your dad would come 'talk' to your husband...I know my daughters husband would not enjoy the 'talk' he and I would have if she told me a similair story to yours. I would immediately offer a room to her to get out of the situation, nothing worse than a man trying to entice his wife into sin. GRRRR!

Well KMEJ, I guess I came in kinda late and have not heard of this kind of talk before. Let me get this straight, you were having a serious conversation about your R, sex, and everything else and he pops in questions about wife swapping and 3somes? Again, like the porn, it's all about his needs. I could not even imagine giving any man consent to have S with my W. IMO H clearly does not respect you or your M. Does this talk coincide w/his obsession with porn?

I agree w/Andrew, all contact w/this other couple needs to be cut off. Frankly, I'm getting kind of sick thinking about this. H and this "friend" have engaged in talk about having sex, if I remember right. Now it's about swapping and 3somes? I am confused. I think H is already in A w/friend, or maybe you have already determined that. I thought he had A w/someone else, the phone # woman. Now H talks about S w/friend and her H? What????!!!!

Deleted post. I just have a hard time hearing this.

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Bear04 ]</small>

Jen,

As requested, on your other post, this FWS will try to lend something to this conversation. You said "My only question is I always wonder if it was better with her than it was with me, I mean, after all, while he was having the A, our SF was virtually non existent. I'd like to get some input on that from FWS's, was it better with the A partner or did you put so much into trying to be a good lover because the OW/OM was new and you felt that you had to prove yourself? One more thing, were you unable to have relations with your spouse during the A due to guilt or because you just didn't want your spouse anymore??

First was the sex better with the OP? Here is the hard part, the sex was better then the sex my wife and I were having around the time of the affair. We were married 7 years, had a young son, mortgage, bills, jobs that were sucking us dry. The sex with the OP was great because it was illicit, new, different, hidden, and detached from reality.

You know, I actually had forgotten that my wife and I once had a great sexlife. It felt that is was so long ago. I was sitting in my basement one day and cleaning up (my wife is a mess and this is something that bothered the hell out of me). Anyway, while sorting through a box of junk I found a bunch of letters tied together. Guess what, they were every love-letter that I had ever written her. I sat on the floor, read every one and simply cried. What had happened to the young man in those letters, that was so desperate to be with his not yet wife? Where did he go?

Some of things I wrote made me blush a little . . . guess what? My wife and I really did have a great sexlife at one time and I really did lover her passionately. Finding those letters is probably the single event that helped to shake me awake.

While I was in my affair I couldn’t have sex with my wife either. I just couldn't. I've never been very good at splitting my affection. I would hide in my woodshop or smoke cigars (she hates it when I do that) and just avoid her. I think that that is why she knew something was not right . . . I couldn't stand to be near her. It was the guilt. I didn't what to face what I was doing so I just pulled away and hid.

My OW was not as pretty as my wife, has less education, etc. At the time she paid attention to me and wasn’t the least bit critical. I think I really liked the attention . . . my wife and I sure weren’t giving each other any at the time.

Anyway, feel free to ask me anything you wish.

Thanks so much for your reply, this is something that I didn't understand before now. Our lives were quite similar to what you are describing, both of us working full time jobs as well as kids and all the other responsibility. I, like your wife have more going for me, the OW in my case didn't even finish high school forget college, she is at least 30 pounds heavier and I'll stop there to keep from sounding like I'm putting her down, but she has never held a job at all. It bothers me tremendously though to think that he had better sex with her than with me (that jealousy thing). I guess it was almost like dating again in a sense to my H. I guess with her always being home and my having a full time job though, she had more time for him than I had.

I think the need for attention and admiration is key. Many men don't any know that they HAVE the need, I think. I know I wasn't aware until recently just how deep my need for those thigns went.

And I think that's a key factor here: it doesn;t really matter what a person looks like, necessarily. What matters is that the other person is "into" you. My wife's affair was with a guy who I think - and she admits - isn't very attractive. But...he showed a lot of interest in her in the WAY she wanted someone to show interest in her (he was apparently very "expressive.")

By the way, CN or some other WS...can you help me understand something? I know that needs often drive people to the point of having an affair. But..what is going through your mind at the actual "choice" moment? I mean..you are already there, in the room and it's obvious that the opportunity exists. I read lots of posts here in which people say they knew it was wrong, but they did it anyway. At some point, it seems to me, a conscious choice is made. Am I correct about that?

Great question Andrew. What I've seen/read so far is that it just happens. There has to be that moment of no return where WS makes the decision to commit the act. For me, that is what hurts the most, then the decision to go back repeatedly.

What is the feeling? Anger at spouse that you are forced to do this. Absolute indifference. Don't care. Thrilling, can I keep this from him. What is it?

I think that I always showed my H that I was "into" him, I doted over everything, telling him how sexy and wonderful that I thought he was quite frequently when we were together. He was one of the people who had a difficult childhood with an alcoholic father, and I wonder if he wasn't capable of absorbing this type of attention, so I don't know that it was an attention deficit in his case. He says that it started as friendship so I guess he couldn't or just wouldn't talk to me. He now says that he talks about his feelings when he needs to, which is NOT OFTEN, what I wonder is, how did he find so much to talk to her about?

This issue is kind of a critical one for me, because the way my wife describes her ONS, she obviously ahd several opportunities to walk away.

I'd view the situation differently if it had been a matter of overwhelming passion which led to the two of them falling into a situation without thinking about it.

But..in my wife's case, there seemed to be a lot of flirting going on.

The basic rundown: OM asks here to dance. he kisses her. They move to the couch. There is a pause and some flirting and teasing. And so on...down the line. At one point, he apparently says that he has to go get a condom.

So...there are a LOT of potential "choice points" here. At every one of those points...she made the decision to continue.

I haven't been able to get any answers from her as to WHY she made that choice. Hopefully, someone here can provide some insight.

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: AndrewA ]</small>

Very interesting thread.

Comfort, you are just like my H. He couldn't split his affection. I "knew" right away but was lost as to what was up for a few months. He just wasn't into me. EVER. Even though the A has been over since April we still haven't been intimate.

It's so embarasing for me to know that I was forcing myself on my husband. We've only actually had sex maybe 4 or 5 times in the last year, but that's because I was pushy. I've stopped trying and have almost given up hope for any type of physical relationship with H.

We are "temporairly separated" ,have been for 4 months. H feels tremendous guilt of not being able to "Be a husband to me." I know that sex with a pregnant lady isn't every guys dream, but our daughter is now 4 months old and my figure is back, am a size 4-6.

However, he did slap my butt the other day.

I guess romantic love is a slow process? Maybe I should just give up on that. But when I do I feel trapped.

Choice points, exactly. How about afterwards. The BS knows they did wrong, how can they look at their spouse the next day. But in my case, my W continued. How can she go back again? These are questions I will need to have answered in time, along with many others. I have stated many times that I love my W, but to just have her back and not have complete recovery just isn't going to work. First, I need, and am entitled to answers. Second, and most importantly, WE need to learn from our past so that we are not damned to repeat it. I WILL NOT GO THRU THIS AGAIN.

I have to confess a strange feeling that has been bothering me all day. For the first time I can remember, I am breathing easy. I have not talked, emailed, TXT, nothing with my W today, don't care and don't care if I see her tonight either. I really don't "feel" like dealing with her at all today. Is this normal? I still love her, just don't want to deal with it.