Ahhh..fantasy land today. Sure, I messed up in our M, but his A is what took us over the edge. Just ONCE I would like him on his knees and groveling...begging me to take him back, telling me he will do ANYTHING to make me his again. I want the friggin' knight on a white horse, okay? I want to be fought for. I want him to think I'm worth it without me having the prove it! Sigh...just once. Hey, I can dream, can't I? A funny side note to that "fighting for me" fantasy. When we first got married, he NEARLY engaged in ...hmm..dunno...probably would've been a ONS kinda thing but I found out and nipped that one in the bud. He was away for summer for a military thing and I refused to speak with him the entire summer. At that time, I DID get the on-the-knees-begging and the 'i will not let you go.' blah blah blah. So why the hell is it so hard for me to get a backbone now when I know it worked in the past? I did bring that up to him a couple of weeks ago. Mentioned how ironic it was that the only time he really and truly fought for me was the one time that I made him fight for me and I was ready to kick him to the curb. lol..didn't really have anything to say to that reminder.

Anyhooo....our visit. I mentioned briefly earlier this week how he brought up the phone counseling. That was just kinda strange because I felt our visit wasn't going that well. not disastorous or anything, but I had the feeling it would be the last time we'd really see each other like that.

In the end it seems that our visit really kinda went better than I had thought. I think we both just sorta had a lot on our minds and neither of us really wanted to talk about it. We didn't have an R talk until the night before he left and some surprising things were said. It seems as though he might be considering the possibilites of our marriage. He refused to come out and say that, but everything else he said pointed in that direction.

Is it crazy to be happy that I might have a fence-sitter on my hands now? lol...I know it sounds crazy to want that, but I don't know..this is all just kinda too strange for me to really digest.

All in all I will say that my expectations have not changed, but some hope was replenished.

I will give him the counsling numbers and leave it at that. I did tell him that I can NOT do anymore. I told him that I love him very much and want to rebuild our marriage. I told him that I beleive that we have a very good chance of being able to do that. But I also said that I can't do anymore than I've already done. I'll continue with the changes that I've been making as they benefit ME more than anything else. I told him the next move is his and that I would no longer try to push him in overt or subtle ways. Supringly, his response to that was that he was glad I push him and don't just let things go. Hmm...whatever.

Soooooooo...please pray for me to have the strength not to push things with him. I feel like I'm on eggshells. Before the visit I was kind of resigned towards a divorce, which was both a horrible and yet liberating feeling. Now..well..I just don't want to alter the course I have set for myself.

and if you like me..lol...you can pray for me that he comes begging for me to take him back...just so I can feel REALLY good about myself for a day.

<small>[ November 05, 2004, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: maddyk ]</small>

Maddy- Glad your visit went as well as could be expected. Don't give up hope. Mine finally split with OW after 22 long months. So hang in there.

Hi Maddyk,

Accept what he says, but watch his actions... Hopefully, he will follow through with the counseling!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just ONCE I would like him on his knees and groveling...begging me to take him back, telling me he will do ANYTHING to make me his again. I want the friggin' knight on a white horse, okay? I want to be fought for. I want him to think I'm worth it without me having the prove it! Sigh...just once. Hey, I can dream, can't I? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep working on yourself and SHOW him what he's missing... I think that eventually, as he sees the changes in you, that he WILL come back...

...and BTW, You should feel REALLY good about yourself... regardless of what your H does! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Maddyk, how was your weekend?

hey maddy just getting on the forums after the weekend. you are a pretty level-headed person so you are not going to do anything that you haven't really thought about it but i would just tell you to stick to you guns about what you said to him (not do anymore). i say this because it's very important that we follow our words w/actions. of course, this is what we want the WS to do as well. to me the visit sounded very encouraging. you expected the worse, almost prepared for it, and were pleasantly surprised.

i know what you mean about wishing you H was a fence sitter. i thought the same thing at one time. because i knew if my WH would just allow himself to see my changes and allow himself to feel things for me then he really would have done some major waffeling. but he didn't, he never looked back. but i don't care anymore, our divorce is in process and i can't wait to get on with the rest of my life.

prayers are definitely being said in your name and continue to keep us posted, RR

RIF, thanks for asking! Weekend went well (my husband had gone back to Puerto Rico on Thursday). Had not spoken to my husband but briefly Saturday morning on an online game we play, Star Wars Galaxies (yeah, I can be a nerd!). I had told him what I had planned for the day and evening and he was excited for me..lol, jealous that he can't do the same sort of stuff in PR. Said he'd call me Sunday morning.

So he did call Sunday morning and we just had normal chit-chat kind of stuff. After we talked for awhile, HE initiated an R talk. He reiterated that he had a blast with me during his visit. Said that it helped him to see some things and some changes that really made him think. Said that over the last few weeks he had really been thinking hard on things. Lol, he paused between just about every word he said so I could tell this was difficult for him. I feel that he wants to work on things, but is afraid to give false impressions. So I did tell him that this was all kind of surprising to me. Told him I felt that before his visit it seemed that his INTIMATE love for me was fading and that I had been worried that our visit would not go well. Said I was surprised he felt the visit went so well as I felt there was something strange going on that I just couldn't put my finger on. That I didnt' feel the visit was going bad, but that until we talked about things the night before he left, I thought it would likely be our last visit like that. Told him that my expectations of what will happen have not changed because of our talk, but I had been losing a lot of hope before and that was replenished. Seemed easier for him to talk after I said those things. I feel that he is afraid that if he works on things with me I will take it as a signal that everything is okay and we just need to work on the issues. I tried to let him know that was not the case. At any rate he seemed able to talk more freely.

He said that over the last few weeks he has gone from being 95% sure that the divorce was what he wanted and what was right for everyone, to being in the 50-50 camp. Is 50-50 good enough for me? No, not forever..and not even for very long. But I see this as a baby step and I think baby steps are good! If he had said that he moved to being 95% positive that the marriage is what he wanted, I would be worried! I don't feel that he was fooling himself when he said he was fairly sure about wanting the divorce. I do think some of it was the "fog" of the single-life he was living, but I didn't feel that he was fence-sitting before. I had felt that he would regret not trying harder one day, but that day would not come for quite awhile.

He did talk about the things that made his view on our marriage different, which was good. I'd hate to be wondering what changed! Some of those things are good...like him seeing my changes and such. Some are not ideal...like him seeing me move on with my life and so he questions his decision. He said he felt like an [censored] for saying that. I explained that while that is not the ideal reason for staying in a marriage, it's a good a reason as any to at least work on things. I said that I felt that neither of us wants to stay in a marriage just so the other person is not with someone else or because we're afraid of the other person being happy without us. But that as we worked on things, we would be able to figure out if we either stay married for the right reasons or get divorced for the right reasons.

He also discussed the things that were keeping him from committing fully to working on things which was also good. Also hard for him to talk about. His big contribution to the state of our marriage (aside from affair) is that he was rarely open with me about his feelings, except for feelings of love. When something was bothering him, he'd stuff it. He stuffed it until he had an affair, then told me how unhappy he was and wanted a divorce! We both tend to be conflict avoiders, but him much more so than me. Anyway, there are two big things. One we might not be able to DO anything about, but which might resolve itself over time. The other is definitely something *I* can do something about. It was not easy for me to hear because I do not have a good reason for not accomplishing it thus far (basically, I haven't gotten a job yet and lack of motivation for *anything* on my part was a big love buster for him). So we talked about that quite a bit. I thanked him for telling me something that must have been difficult for him to say. I talked about a lot of the changes that I have been able to make, but that I'm not 100% there yet. I do not want to give false impressions on the goals I've set for myself either. I talked about this being one of the reasons I'm in counseling--lack of motivation and letting things happen to me, rather than MAKING them happen for me. I talked about how at first I went at the job-hunting with a LOT of motivation but then began to get discouraged and have let things slide. I'll admit here and admitted to him that there are things I could've done to make this happen sooner. Not necessarily MORE things I could've done, but I could've done them differently. So this is an area I still need to work on and I understand his concerns for a variety of reasons.

So basically we discussed why things are changing for him, and the things that are still keeping him from committing to rebuilding. This is all good to me. BABY STEPS!!

Another positive for me is that he talked about the future. We discussed how certain things might go if we do not get a divorce (like..what would I expect out of our living arrangements, and what about when he left puerto rico). This is not something he's ever done since our separation...talked about the "what ifs" if we do not get a divorce.

So as I said, RIF...I like these baby steps and though I fantasize about the groveling and begging--lol, I'd be much more wary of a recovery if it happened that way. We both have a lot of work to do...both pre-recovery and recovery, if that happens. I'm being very cautious here and don't want to jump the gun. It could turn out that after he's back in Puerto Rico for a couple of weeks that he will start detaching again.

So all in all I feel good about things. I believe I'm still of the state-of-mind that I can accept a divorce if that happens. I'm still moving on with things as there really just is no other way. I need to make these changes for myself with or without my husband. I am starting to see an honest effort on his part for change as well. It remains to be seen if things stay that way. Cautious, but hopeful!

roughroad, thanks for posting, I always appreciate your input!

I think the most important thing for me to do, roughroad, is to continue on the path I've set for myself. Maybe my husband will meet me along the way and maybe he won't. Yes, I definitely want my marriage but I will be lost forever if I do not continue towards my goals. I do not wish to be lost any longer in my marriage or out of my marriage.

This sounds kind of odd, but his reconsidering our marriage is kind of...hmm...incidental. Yeah, I think it's great that he's thinking about things and my heart warms to him. But my marriage is no longer the reason for my changes. The reason is ME and it's so wonderful to be at that point. If my changes can also help rebuild my marriage, well that's wonderful! But it's not really the goal anymore. Wish I had realized that all along.

Plan to email ya today or tomorrow AM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes, i know exactly how you feel and i think many BS who have spent much time here would agree about the changes that you make eventually become things you do for yourself.

i had a talk w/my pastor last night after church. i haven't talked to him since july (about what's going on) and i thought i would give him update and just kind of share some of my concerns about this whole new chapter in my life. anyway, one of the things he asked me and wanted to make sure he knew and that i realized what i've learned through all this. i told him even though i was faithful that i didn't think that i was the wife that God wanted me to be and that our M started off on the wrong foot from the beginning. not that i didn't believe God could do anything but just that this really has all happened for a reason. that i've been humbled and had my eyes open and i know now the way things should be in a marriage and what i want.

he was actually kind of funny, he made sure and told me that i didn't need to be afraid of being an old maid, that he just didn't see that happening with my age and other things. i told i'm glad he thought so <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> he told me he knows i want and will do the right thing. i think the same thing can be said of you. i don't remember reading about the details of your first M but i think at this point you have really got a grips of the way things need to be for you and a lot more wiser then when you first started out.

the changes we make affect all areas of our life, not just our M. i for one, can really see how my changes have affected the way i interact w/people on an everyday basis. i wasn't mean or rude before but i think i'm definitely a lot more friendly and considerate. so keep up the great work with YOU. BTW, how does your son feel about all what's going on? if you don't want to post that here you can always email me, which i'm looking forward to reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

prayers to you and have a good day! RR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need to make these changes for myself with or without my husband. I am starting to see an honest effort on his part for change as well. It remains to be seen if things stay that way. Cautious, but hopeful!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that as you continue to work on yourself that your H will come around even more! It sounds like you guys are communicating better and that's a great start!

Semper Fi,
RIF90