Well...I just got finished watching. Don't know what to say.

There were some things that really bothered me... but I'm not going to rehash them...they've already been said...here there and everywhere.

My opinion ?

M23.... a doormat.? That's not what I saw, or what the general public saw.

I WILL tell you what I did see though..and D23..I think this would benefit you more than anyone.

I saw M23... NUMB. She is starting to shut down.

I hope things have changed at this point.

D23...you said..
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is the hardest part for you and the rest to swallow jph....my 3 kids love me, my wife still loves me. We are still a family </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We've known that all along. It's not a revelation, you don't really think M23 is fighting with all she's got for this M for ***** and giggles do you ?

But I am wondering why it wasn't followed up with and I love my 3 kids, and I love my wife.

This was a tough crowd, so I'm not going to go further into this.

I don't think you've really come to terms with what this has done to your family. Honestly. it's not funny, and it's not something to use as a literary retaliation. They've been damaged.... probably for the rest of their lives.

This situation is FAR more serious than you seem to realize.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

BFD? The average is 3-5 every 5 years here buddy. 8000 hours in the ER by myself? What do you have a a friggin trauma team to come in with you? Business was fine today and will continue to be because most people could give a **** who you sleep with as long as your good. As for referals I do the referring to the specialists pal and so far I don't see them turning me down.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dadto3boys:
<strong> BFD? The average is 3-5 every 5 years here buddy. 8000 hours in the ER by myself? What do you have a a friggin trauma team to come in with you? Business was fine today and will continue to be because most people could give a s^&T who you sleep with as long as your good. As for referals I do the referring to the specialists pal and so far I don't see them turning me down. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOu got that right, we won't be turning any referalls down. PLese correct me, are you a family doc or ED doc? , just curious. LOL, and as far as my trauma team coming in with me, yeah kind of.... being as I am a trauma surgeon. No biggie though, please call with a consult...my future kids colleges depend on it. If this situation weren't so terribly pathetic I would be laughing my [censored] off at you, but sadly that is not the right thing to do here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You ain't seen nothin yet, wait till next week. The hate mail will turn to death threats. M23 had told me she was not planning on coming back until her dad passes. I had planned on maybe going racing this weekend to get away for a day. So I agreed not to and she posts it anyway. I skimmed the hate mail I earned every bit of it. Here is the hardest part for you and the rest to swallow jph....my 3 kids love me, my wife still loves me. We are still a family. That show taped 3 days into my recovery over a month ago. OK am I selfish, cruel, immature, self absorbed? Sure.
A monster? at times yes. It's addiction and the answer is strict NC. I have saved many peoples butts in the ER and caught many a rare disease to make a positive difference in many peoples lives. I have been practicing 13 years with zero law suits. So fire away I can't be all bad.


""my 3 kids love me, my wife still loves me. We are still a family. ""

I can not believe that you've said this. You know something yeah your wife and kids still love you for now, but will they respect you in the long run. Personally i would would want the LOVE AND RESPECT of my spouse and kids.
By the way your kids will always love you because you are their dad, but if you keep this up they will come to know that in the long run they can not count on you for substance.

I have to say that you wanting time off to go racing when you have had plenty of time off when you were sleeping with your girlfriend while your wife was taking care of your kids.

Now when she needs you the most for support your still worried about getting your needs met for racing.

I know that you think that she will stay and fight but I have to say that she will get to the point when she might want to throw in the towel, and be done with all of your drama.

As for the other woman well she slept with you knowing that you were married and that you were not happy in that marriage. what does that say with how she views the vows that you took with your wife ( we already know where you stand) plus what happens when if & you do decide to leave and get the divorce (she gunning for you to get) and she finds that all the $$$ that she thinks you have gets divided in half and that all the baggage that comes with a broken home, and she starts to zero in on the new young dr with no exwife and kids to deal with........ what happens when all the crap that you left behind follows with you.

P.S.
Let me tell that I was abused as a child by my older sister, now while I still do love her because she is family I do not like her nor do I respect her or have anything to do with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dad wrote:
"I have saved many peoples butts in the ER and caught many a rare disease to make a positive difference in many peoples lives. I have been practicing 13 years with zero law suits. So fire away I can't be all bad."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dad,

What you do for a living does not excuse your actions as a man, husband and father ... or even a human being.

What you do for a living does not define you. It's how you "TREAT" the people who love you.

Please forgive me Dad, but your posts sound disturbingly smug.

I would think some of what has happened to you and your family in the last 6 mos would be used to learn from and perhaps even humble you. Have you considered that?

Jo

Dad

No hate here. I've been in your shoes. I know how it feels to be torn between two people. I've also been in Mom's shoes. Not knowing if your H is going to come home, or where is he tonight.

It's a hard place to be, I just wish I had all these wonderful people to knock me upside the head and set me straight. I did decied to stay with my H. Thank God!! Xmm showed his true colors and I would have been miserable with him.

If this child does turn out to be yours, Mom does have the capibility to love this child. It can be done. But be forward, most OW will and do play games when it comes to visits and anything else with the child.

nevermind

I'm probably not intelectual (did I spell that right?)enough to hold a conversation with dad anyway.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: Miss Priss ]</small>

Actually dt3b,

It could very well affect you. People may not care whose pants you are in..but they most certainly care that you have demonstrated poor judgement. Would YOU refer someone to a known addict whose homelife is coming apart at the seams?

They'll take the referrals from you..just probably not be giving any to you..as it could reflect badly on them.

Or not.

But you really won't have any way to predict..just have to wait and see.

Have you given any consideration to not having anything to do with this OC, even if it should prove to be yours?

Perhaps a finacial settlement and no contact [it's best if you never even see the child..so as not to emotionally attach]

I really think that is the best way to insure NC and the best way to demonstrate your devotion to your wife. She has suffered loss..it is time for you to as well, and giving up your lover doesn't count. Giving up this child would be a very positive statement to all involved, would free OW [whose judgement and soundness as a parent you trust implicitly right?..so no worry that she will be just fine without your presence] to find a full time Dad instead of Uncle Dad and allow everyone involved to move on with their lives.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ....my 3 kids love me, my wife still loves me. We are still a family. That show taped 3 days into my recovery over a month ago. OK am I selfish, cruel, immature, self absorbed? Sure.
A monster? at times yes. It's addiction and the answer is strict NC. I have saved many peoples butts in the ER and caught many a rare disease to make a positive difference in many peoples lives </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.

Dad,

My dad was involved in the Apollo Space Program. A very important part of putting the first man on the moon. Highly respected in his field. As a kid I knew this,,,but to me he was just...DAD. And I worshipped him. The very best dad in the world. It didn't matter to me how important he was at work or what he did for a living. All that mattered to me was that he loved me, my brother and sister AND Mom VERY much and spent every day of his life showing us that love.

Mom and Dad -

I still have lots of hope for the 2 of you and your family.

Mom - You are much stronger than you know. It takes a tough person to go through all that you are having to face. But I think you can do it. You are always in my prayers.

Dad - You got yourself in a real mess. It's not going to be easy, and everyone is going to be hurt. However continue to do the best you can and save your marriage.

No matter what anyone says kids are better off with both parents.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:
<strong> Actually dt3b,


Have you given any consideration to not having anything to do with this OC, even if it should prove to be yours?

Perhaps a finacial settlement and no contact [it's best if you never even see the child..so as not to emotionally attach]

I really think that is the best way to insure NC and the best way to demonstrate your devotion to your wife.
Noodle </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think that I could DISAGREE more with this post, but I am gonna keep try and be civil here on this one (not one of my strong suits <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

This one takes the cake for me let me tell you. Yeah, lets show devotion to the wife (WHO HAS ALREADY STATED ON NATIONAL TV THAT SHE COULD LOVE THIS CHILD LIKE HER OWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!) by never seeing or being involved in this child's life. WHAT ABOUT THE POJA every ** MB zealot talks about all the time. This is terrible advice. I thought that this was supposed to be a decision made TOGETHER...........Dad23b has SAID that he wants to be involved in this child's life. Look at his reaction on TV, HE WANTS DESPERATELY FOR THIS CHILD TO BE HIS. Does punishing him by FORCING him to NC the child "even out the score". Is this the price he has to pay for his marriage? DOes paying a check and "forgetting" this child exists show devotion. DAD23b will NEVER stop seeing this woman if he does not want to. Forcing NC on the child (if this is not what he wants) will never be the solution to his infidelity. Is this what POJA is about? Please enlighten me on this. This is the exact *****reason why this site drives me mad at times. The concepts are great when they fit into WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT !!! wHY BOTHER........UGGHH ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

YOu got that right, we won't be turning any referalls down. PLese correct me, are you a family doc or ED doc? , just curious. LOL, and as far as my trauma team coming in with me, yeah kind of.... being as I am a trauma surgeon. No biggie though, please call with a consult...my future kids colleges depend on it. If this situation weren't so terribly pathetic I would be laughing my***off at you, but sadly that is not the right thing to do here.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Lemonman
What a pompous ***! His ER "conquests" will look good on his headstone, sure won't be "loving and devoted husband and father."

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No matter what anyone says kids are better off with both parents </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believer,
I'm not saying this isn't the case with M23B/D23B, but that statement couldn't be further from the truth.

Kids are better off in a loving, safe, and nurturing environment, PERIOD...be that with one parent, 2 parents, a stranger for that matter.

My 1st H turned into a raging lunatic from his gambling addiction and beat me bloody...how were my kids better off ?

I pulled them out of that situation...because I didn't want my son to grow up thinking it was okay to disrespect and beat on his wife...and I didn't want my daughter growing up thinking that's what marriage should be.

Raised them alone for the next 10 years.... my son...treats his fiance with the utmost respect..and my daughter doesn't take gruff from anyone.

THAT'S good parenting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by fingers33:
<strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Lemonman
What a pompous ***! His ER "conquests" will look good on his headstone, sure won't be "loving and devoted husband and father." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, but the reality is, IF he is an ER doc, it won't matter what his character is. The pts come to the hospital NOT him, so this won't affect him monetarily. He is a smug, arrogant guy (I have been called the same many a times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and the comment he made about zero lawsuits in 13 years is kind of laughable, but hey, this was his moment to look "tough" on the message board....we should let him have it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayedinjersey:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No matter what anyone says kids are better off with both parents </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believer,
I'm not saying this isn't the case with M23B/D23B, but that statement couldn't be further from the truth.

Kids are better off in a loving, safe, and nurturing environment, PERIOD...be that with one parent, 2 parents, a stranger for that matter.

My 1st H turned into a raging lunatic from his gambling addiction and beat me bloody...how were my kids better off ?

I pulled them out of that situation...because I didn't want my son to grow up thinking it was okay to disrespect and beat on his wife...and I didn't want my daughter growing up thinking that's what marriage should be.

Raised them alone for the next 10 years.... my son...treats his fiance with the utmost respect..and my daughter doesn't take gruff from anyone.

THAT'S good parenting. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOu took the words right out of my mouth (not an easy thing to do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). Very nicely said and the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

Hey People!! Yeah, You guys with the 2x4s. Don't you recognize total and absolute defensiveness when you see it?

Ease up! The guy has probably been through social h*ll today and we're not letting him off the hook, but enough with the slamming nasty comments. Kapesh?

Dad - I know I ain't seen nothing yet. And you're trying to salvage some semblance of self-respect/pride out of this day when you've been reduced to hamburger.

I do know this. You're in my prayers, as is Mom. Is packing up and leaving this whole mess behind starting to look more attractive? Fresh start? You and Mom and 3 boys, in a new practice, somewhere far far away from a nurse who plotted and stalked you by feeding your ego from the get-go?

It's hard to be humbled like this. It will take a strength of character you don't know you have yet to find peace; but I believe it's within you and I believe that Mom craves that same peace.

Prayers for blessings your way.

Kayla

I just was on the Dr. Phil website...and it says that the OW speaks up...is this true ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by fingers33:
<strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Lemonman
What a pompous ***! His ER "conquests" will look good on his headstone, sure won't be "loving and devoted husband and father." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, but the reality is, IF he is an ER doc, it won't matter what his character is. The pts come to the hospital NOT him, so this won't affect him monetarily. He is a smug, arrogant guy (I have been called the same many a times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and the comment he made about zero lawsuits in 13 years is kind of laughable, but hey, this was his moment to look "tough" on the message board....we should let him have it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good, all the more money for child support and alimony when Mom finally decides to kick his ***to the curb.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Everyone here means well but ...

unless you have experienced the OC situation, you cannot know how these two people really feel.

I'd also like to offer that there will be very strong opinions on contact -vs no contact of an OC (perhaps go read on the P/OC board).

Understandably, this is a highly emotionally charged subject. Every situation is unique just as the married couple that will make that decision.

Having experienced this sitch, I can tell you that THE SINGLE most important thing is that both parties are radically honest about what they want and what they can handle.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong>
I do know this. You're in my prayers, as is Mom. Is packing up and leaving this whole mess behind starting to look more attractive? Fresh start? You and Mom and 3 boys, in a new practice, somewhere far far away from a nurse who plotted and stalked you by feeding your ego from the get-go?

Kayla </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think that packing up and moving away from the "evil" nurse is going to solve these deep seeded problems in their marriage? HELLO !!!!!!!!!!!!!! This has NOTHING to do with an OW plotting against him and feeding his ego. DAd23B is a man of free will. He is a doctor who has "saved many lives" and "caught many a rare diseases to help his fellow man", he MADE THE DECISION TO LEAVE HIS CHILDREN AND WIFE NOT ONE, NOT TWO, NOT THREE, BUT 4 TIMES. The OW has no "loyalty" to MOm or anyone. LEAVE HER OUT OF IT, this is about dad2B AND HIS CHOICES. DO people see how ludicrous this is to blame the OW at all in any of this. She may be a morally, reprehesible ****, BUT THIS IS ALL D23B doing. He is not being abducted by some "aliens" and he does not have "cancer". HIs actions define his character, and they are speaking louder than words now. Yeah, i agree he has taken a royal beating today and I am not sorry for him. If he feels 1/10 of the pain he has caused maybe this will wise him up. DO you think there are not other nurses to "feed his ego" when he packs up and gets a fresh start somewhere new? Running from the problems will not solve anything. Their will always be a "nurse" somwhere for the taking. ALWAYS !!!!!!!

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>