I agree with Kayla...lighten up people.

Mom23B...earlier in the day you "sounded" like you were at peace..finally got some madness behind you and sitting with your dear dad. You seemed calm and o.k. That was good to "hear". You are such a strong woman!

To everyone else...when you are so rude to dad you are attacking the man that M23B loves. And that may hurt her. This is not the right way to support her.

And Lemonman...back off! Your posts to dad are just nasty and uncalled for. Not gonna accomplish a thing with what you are doing.

JMHO

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: marriedandlonely ]</small>

D23, you might want to check your punctuation before hitting "Add Reply" -- just in case, you know. Gotta maintain that intellectual superiority. . .

Seriously, you make me very sad. Very sad indeed.

The fact that Dad is an MD shows that intelligence has nothing to do with being dumb. WS are high school dropouts, MDs and PHD's. Affairs are all dumb and stupid actions. Dad could be the best physician in the world but that means nothing to his family and the pain they are going thru, does it? Affairs are hugely based on egos and ego-stroking. Dad wasn't feeling his ego being stroked at home, Mom had switched her focus to the kids and being a wife. He didn't know how to get her to focus on him and started feeling unimportant as a man to Mom. OW started giving him attention, telling him he was great, and stroked his ego. That boosted his self-esteem and after that OW had power over him because she understood him, she made him feel good because she was focused only on him. It is a trap that most fall for no matter how smart.

Dad is showing a lot of heart by putting himself on national television. My husband wouldn't even go to a counselor because he didn't want to be told he was a piece of S*** by one man. Dad is willing to sit there and have the whole world say it. How many other WS would do that?

Hang in there, Dad! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mom, stay strong! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Cathy

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: boobyprize ]</small>

Once again...is it the intent here to drive people off the board? Just wondering...because it seems to be working.

Thanks KaylaAndy.

Just a suggestion Dad...when you receive a post that ignites you...ignore it, there are too many other posters to answer. (BTW, you've never talked about one of my posts... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )

A bit of advice from early in our recovery. As a BS I was hurt and sad and not confident our M would work. I was seeking reassurance at every turn. I EXPECTED my H to bend over backwards to fulfill every need, answer every question, fulfill every request.

This time doesn't last forever, it enables the FWH to fall back in love, to help the BS heal. To make up for the lost love and attention.

Then the pendulum will swing back, the M returns to a normalcy...

Help her out, do what she asks, love her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marriedandlonely:
<strong> I agree with Kayla...lighten up people.


And Lemonman...back off! Your posts to dad are just nasty and uncalled for. Not gonna accomplish a thing with what you are doing.

JMHO </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL...OK, I guess this is my cue to simmer down for the night. Goodluck DAd with this situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> Do you think that packing up and moving away from the "evil" nurse is going to solve these deep seeded problems in their marriage? HELLO !!!!!!!!!!!!!! This has NOTHING to do with an OW plotting against him and feeding his ego. DAd23B is a man of free will. He is a doctor who has "saved many lives" and "caught many a rare diseases to help his fellow man", </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>and mocking doesn't help him see the double-minded man he portrays/reveals here. deal with your anger, at the person who has earned YOUR anger. Dad hasn't. He's done nothing to you personally so cut the mocking, disrespectful tone. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>he MADE THE DECISION TO LEAVE HIS CHILDREN AND WIFE NOT ONE, NOT TWO, NOT THREE, BUT 4 TIMES. The OW has no "loyalty" to MOm or anyone. LEAVE HER OUT OF IT, this is about dad2B AND HIS CHOICES. DO people see how ludicrous this is to blame the OW at all in any of this. She may be a morally, reprehesible Slut, BUT THIS IS ALL D23B doing. He is not being abducted by some "aliens" and he does not have "cancer". HIs actions define his character, and they are speaking louder than words now. Yeah, i agree he has taken a royal beating today and I am not sorry for him. If he feels 1/10 of the pain he has caused maybe this will wise him up. DO you think there are not other nurses to "feed his ego" when he packs up and gets a fresh start somewhere new? Running from the problems will not solve anything. Their will always be a "nurse" somwhere for the taking. ALWAYS !!!!!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't feel sorry for him either. Do not confuse pity and compassion - have you ever had a child get in over their heads through their own exercise of free will? If you have, then you can understand what I'm talking about.

You will not get your messages through to Dad by further beatings. He will go hard and defensive and you become the enemy.

Since Dad is nothing to you; why unleash anger at him; if you truly desire to help mom, then soften the message and remove the mocking sarcasm.

In medical terms, you need the finest point on your injection instrument as possible, and the gentlest touch, or the muscle will rebel, squeeze any antivirus serum right out and no medical benefit will be achieved if you insist on using your current method to give input! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> Do you think that packing up and moving away from the "evil" nurse is going to solve these deep seeded problems in their marriage? HELLO !!!!!!!!!!!!!! This has NOTHING to do with an OW plotting against him and feeding his ego. DAd23B is a man of free will. He is a doctor who has "saved many lives" and "caught many a rare diseases to help his fellow man", </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>and mocking doesn't help him see the double-minded man he portrays/reveals here. deal with your anger, at the person who has earned YOUR anger. Dad hasn't. He's done nothing to you personally so cut the mocking, disrespectful tone. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>he MADE THE DECISION TO LEAVE HIS CHILDREN AND WIFE NOT ONE, NOT TWO, NOT THREE, BUT 4 TIMES. The OW has no "loyalty" to MOm or anyone. LEAVE HER OUT OF IT, this is about dad2B AND HIS CHOICES. DO people see how ludicrous this is to blame the OW at all in any of this. She may be a morally, reprehesible Slut, BUT THIS IS ALL D23B doing. He is not being abducted by some "aliens" and he does not have "cancer". HIs actions define his character, and they are speaking louder than words now. Yeah, i agree he has taken a royal beating today and I am not sorry for him. If he feels 1/10 of the pain he has caused maybe this will wise him up. DO you think there are not other nurses to "feed his ego" when he packs up and gets a fresh start somewhere new? Running from the problems will not solve anything. Their will always be a "nurse" somwhere for the taking. ALWAYS !!!!!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't feel sorry for him either. Do not confuse pity and compassion - have you ever had a child get in over their heads through their own exercise of free will? If you have, then you can understand what I'm talking about.

You will not get your messages through to Dad by further beatings. He will go hard and defensive and you become the enemy.

Since Dad is nothing to you; why unleash anger at him; if you truly desire to help mom, then soften the message and remove the mocking sarcasm.

In medical terms, you need the finest point on your injection instrument as possible, and the gentlest touch, or the muscle will rebel, squeeze any antivirus serum right out and no medical benefit will be achieved if you insist on using your current method to give input! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the reminder, I sometimes get to fired up...LOL. I like your last paragraph, it has a nice touch.

I don't think the intent of this thread is to drive anyone anywhere.

This situation took on a whole new twist when it's publicly televised.

Under normal circumstances...I think you see different responses.

These responses all directly reflect feelings associated with this type of thing. Harsh ? Run on over to the Dr. Phil discussion boards...there are people from all walks of life...who've never suffered the pain of infidelity..flinging **** much worse than THIS.

It doesn't help when there's a touch of smug thrown in...and a mocking attitude.

I've refrained from posting anything to harsh, too soft, and I will not defend anyone in this matter. This was going to happen...nothing anyone can do or say...will avoid it...it goes with the territory.

This hit many sore spots with this community...we all have to be ready for the hurt feelings....rough reading...and don't READ or respond to posts that enrage us. As long as it remains within the TOS...it's going to be a free for all.

It will blow over....until next week...and then they'll be another round.

It's better to accept it will happen..and do the best we can with it.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
In medical terms, you need the finest point on your injection instrument as possible, and the gentlest touch, or the muscle will rebel, squeeze any antivirus serum right out and no medical benefit will be achieved if you insist on using your current method to give input! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lemonman, when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Pep

Dang, lemon man:
I thought you said you were a pariah around here.

Guess I must be as well, cause you just keep coming up with things I Agree with.

Yes, MBers principles work, but they must be flexible to work in the real world.

Once a Child is added to the equation.....the rules are a little different.
Especially when that child is NO accident and is in Fact "created" with purpose and intent.

I know this is MBers....but marriages Can and Do End.
However, being a Parent is FOREVER.

By the way, Mom 2 3 is OK with this (as much as one can be).....so let THEM work it out.

This rest is all mine (so your off the hook lemon):
I'm always amazed at the Mothers who are "OK" with a FATHER that is more then willing to Walk away from HIS OWN child. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

With this logic, should DAD to 3 decide to leave MOM 2 3.....then he should forgo seeing his 3 boys and just Move on with his life with his Nurse OW & the New child.

Of course this is illogical and makes no sense.
Well, so too is abandoning your flesh and blood.

That's a huge problem in this country already.....Men who create babies and then don't stick around to raise them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (teach them, instruct them, nurture them, love them).

However a man creates a child, it is HIS responsibility (for Life) and that means waaaay more than just a "check".

Being a Father has no more to do with having an x OW, then it does with having an Ex W.
You can be a Dad to YOUR kid with either.

******************
Had to add this, from your last post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From lemon Man:
LEAVE HER OUT OF IT, this is about dad2B AND HIS CHOICES. DO people see how ludicrous this is to blame the OW at all in any of this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry but you are on a roll here lemon.
This is true in all cases.
Its NOT the "evil" OP that is the BS problem....it is their own WS.
Wish more here could see/own that reality.

Temptation is Always around us....some give in....some don't. Teach them to deal with it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
In medical terms, you need the finest point on your injection instrument as possible, and the gentlest touch, or the muscle will rebel, squeeze any antivirus serum right out and no medical benefit will be achieved if you insist on using your current method to give input! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lemonman, when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Chuckle........ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I guess this is why I am a trauma surgeon and not a plastic surgeon. It's a learning process, I will get better....perhaps when the meds Cymanaca presrcibes me kick in I will have a more "compassionate" tone with regards to this situation/thread. I guess untill then I will try and use restraint... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I said "try".

ok. I also mocked, and I apologize, but please allow me to take exception to one phrase in your post, Kayla, which is: "Dad is nothing to you."

I disagree.

Dad's (commendable) willingness to be honest does not change the fact that he's openly displaying the very kind of thinking that has been so hurtful to many on this board. He knew it wouldn't be pretty, and it's not.

D23B, I apologize, not that I think anything I post would have any impact on you. Still, it makes me look bad. I'm sorry; you just have to know that your words are crushing to BS's. I wish the best to you and your family. PM

Ok lemonman...careful how you talk about the nurses, if it weren't for us telling you how to do your job you'd be lost!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (being a nurse myself I love to give the docs a rough time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Anyway, it's been awhile since I've been around here and WOW look what has happened!! M23B's, so sorry to hear about your Dad. It is readily apparent you need love and support now more than ever. You are in my thoughts.

D23B's, many, many months ago I wrote a few posts to you (the content of which you disregarded). Sadly, at this point, you are looking all around you for enemies and yes, you are defensive. Can't say I blame you. Let me say this, every individual is responsible for the choices they make. With choice comes consequence (good and bad). You are feeling the consequences now. You now have the opportunity to chose a new path. No one will do it for you. You can remain ambivalent and passive in your marriage OR you can decide to be passionate and active in saving your M. M23B's can't do this on her own. She no longer has the emotional resources.

The choice on how to act next is yours...and so are the consequences!

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mgm:
<strong> Ok lemonman...careful how you talk about the nurses, if it weren't for us telling you how to do your job you'd be lost!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (being a nurse myself I love to give the docs a rough time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOu don't think that I don't know this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . It is many a nurse who have saved my patients when one of my residents tries to replete potassium and orders a 1000meq bolus, or when I say "give em a little salt" and they literally tey and put salt into the f-ing IV bag. LOL. I should have paid my medical school tuition to the ICU nurses b/c they are the one's who taught me real medicine. Any good doctor knows it is the nurses who run the show and do the real "treating". You want to know what is pathetic? I have done a triple A repair skin to skin in 84 minutes, but have needed to call a nurse to show me how to turn the dopamine drip down to 5 mics becasue I am cluelss on how to work those pumps. Trust me, I know that you speak the truth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lemonman:
<strong> Thanks for the reminder, I sometimes get to fired up...LOL. I like your last paragraph, it has a nice touch. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lol - touch indeed. Comes from too many encounters with needles and doing my own immunotherapy injections; or staring down the nail-sized needles the Red Cross uses to take my blood donations.

Of course, I have my own version of Dad to deal with, who has caused his share of flame wars over on the emotional needs board - but it's been a while. I know what it's like to live with a man who is vocationally superior! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And I know I don't get anywhere by telling him how wrong he is on anything. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> even when he is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I've learned a bit about rebellious muscles. (husband is a rehab/sports massage therapist.

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

I felt like Dr Phil glamourized the OW and Dads Affair "The Doctor & the Nurse"

Dad's OW is an LVN at a Nursing Home. She was a trade school grad. Not to offend anyone here.
But those of us that went to Nursing school and achieved a degree then sat for our RN boards this upset me. She was NOT an ER RN. In my state LVN's are very restricted I dont think they can even give out meds so you dont see them anywhere near an ER. In my 17 years as a RN I have never worked with an LVN (not allowed in my area of practice).
For the record Dad is an ER doctor but he does own and operate his own Family practice.
Here where I live alot of the ER doctors do this it seems to have more money in owning clinics than working strickly for a hospital ER.

It also bugged me that Dr Phil would also ask Mom a question then Answer it.
Mom did he pick up on that stage fright??

Other than that I thought it was great. I thought they both looked wonderful
And I was happy how honest both were being.

The show was taped several weeks ago just after Dad ended contact for the last time. Next weeks show was taped this last tuesday. So at the time of the taping Dad was in the beginning of "withdrawl" and he was confused. I hope he see's things more clearly now.

Dad has gotten alot of 2x4's tonight as he expected he would. As far as being disappointed in the OC being his? I think he would be. Because that would be just one more failed judgement call on his part. And he has made a few. Does Dad want to be a "daddy" again? Highly doubt it, I think he would rather go "racing" than having to sit around the house changing diapers.

I am not giving Dad a 2x4 I have always told him what I thought, in fact I probably scare him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As far as his ego, well I married a man with a very large ego in alot of aspects of his life.
I think I have help calm that down a bit (my H was out of control) Some have better tact than others, some just do the delivery better. Dad knows what he has done is wrong
Now it's time for him to STEP UP TO THE PLATE and do the RIGHT thing.

And Dad if your confused about that, take a look around you. See those adorable angels of yours?
GOOD, No question what the right thing is.
Remember YOU are gonna have to be the strong one for them when their "Grandpa" passes. Their Mom will be too overcome with grief to truly be there for them. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

SOM

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I STILL haven't read all the posts! Thanks to all who think I looked good and not like a doormat. I certainly dont feel like a doormat. I think I am going to have to get thru the first 6 pages i printed first then print the rest out tomorrow.

like I said, all I have to do is start a thread and watch the drama! Thanks for the support and yes, drama today..I really need all of it right now. I think they are ALLl good posts.

I must go ahead and defend dad. He did tell me he wasn't going to go racing, but I still posted the conversatin cuz AT THE TIME, that is what was my dileman and what was bothering me. I wont go on...He has agreed to come be with me. I NEED him and yes, although i did not come out and say it, I NEED him here with me. I need to hold him. I need ot be strong for my mom and dad right now, and I need Ed to come hold me up.

Ed is NOT in contact with OW...He is working on the marriage, not like I would like, but who can with all the emotions running wild right now. I do nbelieve we can make this.

I really cannot wait til you all see next weeks show. It is awesome from what i remember! REALLY is. You wont see poor little old Kandi up there, You will see the woman you know on these boards! goodnight all!

HIGH SOM!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> LVN's are very restricted I dont think they can even give out meds so you dont see them anywhere near an ER. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">except to see her BF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> sorry,couldn't resist! Love ya!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StressedOutMom:
<strong> I felt like Dr Phil glamourized the OW and Dads Affair "The Doctor & the Nurse"

Dad's OW is an LVN at a Nursing Home. She was a trade school grad. Not to offend anyone here.
But those of us that went to Nursing school and achieved a degree then sat for our RN boards this upset me. She was NOT an ER RN. In my state LVN's are very restricted I dont think they can even give out meds so you dont see them anywhere near an ER. In my 17 years as a RN I have never worked with an LVN (not allowed in my area of practice).

SOM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SOM:

Interesting, thank you for sharing this information. This definitely changes the situation and will helps us all to see the MAJORITIVE role the Nurse, I am aorry, I mean LPN (is she even this qualified? ) played in this destruction of the marriage. It is great that they have you to support them through this tough time, they sure are lucky to have you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SOM,

Thanks for the clarification. I assumed (wrongly so) by all the posts and such that she was an RN.

Soooooo, if D23B's places such high value in intellect (and education??), as he stated on the Dr. Phil show why would he get involved with someone like the OW???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> No need to answer...it was rhetorical.

M23B's,

Need to add that I'm so proud of you and Dad for the courage the two of you displayed by going on the Dr. Phil show! Both of you should hold your heads high!! Not many ppl out there could do what the two of you did on national television!!