Oh m23b, I've been posting, on and off, this board for a few years. I seldom get so "wrapped up in a storyline". Currently however, you and faithinme have me in awe. You both appear to be wise, kind and wonderful women.

I've been reading your threads lately (never did finish the "original story" stuff). I think I have a handle on what's been posted.

I am so sad that your H doesn't seem to have the empathy that is required to work through such a crisis.

I'm even more sorry that during this very sad time with your father, he is not there being your rock. You do need a rock. You NEED a rock.

That is why I am shocked that he brought up a lunch with an old boyfriend, and tried to "in some very small way" make his sins diminish.

(my story is that my H was a serial cheater. And, he was emotionally abusive to me as well. At one point I did have an affair...long distance, mostly emotional (but we did meet once)...and it is something I VERY much regret).

My husband went ballistic about it. Life was HELL for some time. Some time down the road he said to me..."I'm not surprised you had an affair...in face, I would be surprised if you didn't, after the way I treated you". He no longer throws it in my face. Two wrongs do not make a right, and we both know that. But he was able to muster up the empathy inside of him to recognize that I was left prime and vulnerable to that type of attention. AGAIN, NO EXCUSE!!!!!

But M23B, your H seems lately to be looking for things to diminish his horrible record as a husband...and he's found it in a short-term relationship that was "close to" crossing the line (by your own admission), but that did not get that far. Oh, how I bet you too wish that he had stopped at just a lunch, and a bit of romantic chatter...instead of going full throttle into bed with his OW....and yes, and then to get her pregnant to boot.

There can be no reasonable comparison between the two.

I don't know much about the OW in your situation. From the comments on the board, I get the impression that she has behaved very badly (beyond the affair). But, you know that it is not about her, it about him and his choice. YOU KNOW THAT anyway.

I didn't catch you on tv (I was on the run that day). I commend BOTH of you on your bravery.

The little I have read about your H (and I try to NOT put too much weight on the negatives) is that he has a LONG way to go. He is behaving like a spoiled child. And, he is setting the worst possible model for your boys. How sad that makes me. (btw, their pictures are absolutely adorable).

As for his glib comment about Dr. Phil getting on him about having the OW in your home...HELL, he should be fried for that. He should be SO embarrassed, SO ashamed, and SO apologetic. Anything less than that just floors me.

And I guess that is exactly what scares me here...that he doesn't even seem to "get" he most basic of human responses. He may understand it on ONE level (the intellectual one...after all, we know how intelligent he is....he is a Dr.). But, on an emotional level, he is but a babe. That is abundantely clear.

In his quest to "figure it out", he has all of those in his life reeling with pain and confusion...yet he appears to NOT be rushing the issue to conclusion.

His apparent comment about you not being his intellectual equal is very true....(now listen)....I think you are MUCH smarter than he is...in EVERY way that counts.

I think your H is sick and tired over getting told what a fool he is...but hey, it was his choice to have an affair, and his choice to not resolve the issue in a more compassionate way, that have brought him to this place. It's like putting on three coats in the summer heat, and then complaining about the heat. Geesh!

I'm sorry to see you and the kids having to deal with this. I pray for resolve of this, one way or the other, so that you and yours can move forward.

As for the OC...you were prepared to let the child into your heart at one point in time...try to keep that open if you can. The baby is also an innocent here, and as painful as it's presence may be in terms of triggering reminders of the affair.

You are an amazingly strong women. How you can get up each morning and breathe will all that is going on just boggles my mind. If you can handle all of this (even if it shakes you to the core, as I'm sure it does), imagine what you can do when life calms down some, and you get something akin to "normal" again.

In the end, you will not only survive, but you will revel. As for your H, it's his choice how he survives. His personal integrity is right on the line here. He can grab that lifeline and save himself, or drown in the mess he's made.

Just wanted to share my thoughts with you.

Mom
Just read these last few posts and say ditto to their wisdom. If you remember FIM's posts and how quickly after Dork left that she regained a sense of peace. Living in this nightmare is more stressful than you realize. Once out of it, it's amazing how quickly one feels better. I too experienced the same feelings. The first few days were stressful but suddenly, I was relieved. I wouldn't go back to that drama for all the tea in China...

My husband's leaving had nothing to do with xow in fact the A had been over for years. The A is just a symptom of what's really wrong. I remember when you first posted you said that your marriage wasn't all that strong. Mine wasn't either. I tolerated...and tolerated..and tolerated until I lost myself. It's so easy to get wrapped up in raising kids and providing them a two parent family that we forget that the alternative may not necessarily be bad. For my daughter, no father would have been better than her father. My heart aches that I didn't get out sooner.

It's like childbirth, until you've been through it, you have a hard time understanding that you'll get through fine. It's was the same with me. I thought living with sure misery was better than chancing possible worse misery. I was wrong. My health is failing, I should be totally blind possibly in the next five years and I'm working at a job in which I'm overqualified...but it's pure heaven in comparison to my life before. I have new friends, going new places, and I'm independent. I consult no one about my coming and going. I've changed churches and am looking for a new home-my home-no one else's home.

My stbx has done everything he can possibly do to come home. I won't talk to him. He has to go through attorney's. He's miserable. Now he knows how wonderful his life was and he threw it away because of HIS actions. He's facing the holidays with no family and no home. He's living in our lake property that isolated and an hour away. I don't care. I'm happy. That divorce he filed has sat idle for over 3 months...he did it to scare me but it thrilled me instead.

My point is Mom as someone once told me long ago, you can't rake leaves in the desert. If it's not there, it's not there. You'll be fine. Go live your life and as I told FIM..live it to its fullest!

Dear JPH, you are a brave lady. I'm so terribly sorry to hear your eyes are dying on you. Is there any chance of saving your sight at all? What is the problem?

And mom23, I'll also jump on the bandwagon and say my life is more peaceful without my miserable husband around. The biggest factor in getting past an A is NC and with the possibility of another child involved, that is so hard to implement. I still don't think this is the time for you to make any rash decisions. There's too many factors at the moment affecting your state of mind. Kind thoughts. TT

MT3B,
I'm with Mulan. It really hurts to see that my children are suffering from our marital problems, and supposedly Sophia has been out of the picture since D-day 2 1/2 years ago.

Like Dad, my H shows no empathy towards me, and again the affair is no longer the issue. The issue is the lack of empathy and care.

Is Dad avoiding causing you any harm? No.
Is Dad meeting your needs? Look at how he is handling your father's illness and pending death.
Is Dad trying to work with you to create a lifestyle that works for both of you? No. Dad is blatantly saying he wants to have you and OW.

He doesn't care about you.

You don't want to model a marriage like that to your children. Whether you like it or not, you are teaching those boys of yours that it is acceptable to have an affair and treat their wives like Dad is treating you.

Plan B is about reclaiming your own integrity. It is about saying, "This is not OK."

Cherished

Got in late last night! It has been utter HELL here at the house. Sarcasm, accusations, "Yup, I knew you would do that" and so on, on dad's part. I have asked him NOT TO talk to me, yet he continues in the path of destruction. I have told him I am moving forward, with or without him...he KNOWS that I would rather it be WITH him, but he still doesn't "get it"...get the fact that I will not live in the past the rest of my life. He cant get over the fact that *I* had lunch with an old HS school FRIEND...NOT FLAME...FRIEND!!! While he was effing (as kimmy says) a slut in MY bed! He also cant get over the fact that Dr. Phil called him on that one. "I cant believe he said something about that..I'm really going to look bad after that" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That is the LEAST of my worries...you see, he doesn't feel badly that he had her over here, he feels badly that he got CAUGHT! See the irony of this???

I would like to quote a few things...all by dadto3boys

Oct 9, 2004:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am back to tell you all that I am really going to work on my marriage. My wife is at the point of leaving and has lined up some guys who are chomping at the bit to to step into my shoes. Ok so lets acknowledge some soon to be painfull facts.
I do not deserve my wife.
I have been cruel and selfish
I have crossed all the boundaries that constitute honesty and decency.
I have had no regard for my children
I have disrespected my wife repeatedly
I have betrayed my wife repeatedly
I have done this with no remorse whatsoever until now.
I am a liar and a cheat.
Ok there you go I already have covered the attacks so do not bother being redundant.
I love my wife
I will worship the ground she walks on to earn back her love and pray for her trust and respect someday. It starts now. I have told OW in front of my wife. I will work out the details of how I will be a father to a child on the way which is probably mine. I will own up to that. I will not let OW back into my life using this child as a pretext. I will do my best not to let this affect my beautiful innocent 3 boys. Now I will go out and prove it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oct 9, 2004
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it is not too late. I am just lucky to have her. Life is unfair, I should be distraught and alone, with no life to look forward to. I am just lucky. Time will become my ally. If I am transparent time will win back her trust. The OC issue is a hurdle that as I said will be dealt with. First stay the course for the remaining 4 months,of pregnancy, then paternity test then we go from there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LIR I appreciate your post. I sincerely want no contact with OW. I will wait four months and after the paternity test, if mine I will provide financial support. I like the idea of waiting 6 months to a year after the birth to see if any POJA arranged relationship is possible. By that time I will know what OW intentions really are and if she plans to use OC as a battering ram agaist my family then NC OC and that's it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oct10, 2004
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That is when i realized I was about to make the biggest mistake of my life. I dropped the notion of being with OW like a lead ballon. I felt a torent of emotion for my wife that I had not felt in recent memory, This time I was not thinking I would appease my wife and secretly go back to OW. I want her(wife) back. The NH is a big POJA. I cannot quit for 30 days, I have OW schedule, and so does my wife, I can also go after hours with my wife. I have given the pager and my cell phone to my wife, she cannot page me or call me with out my wife knowing. I am not concerned with OW. Yes I may be forced to quit, but remember OW knows where all the nursing homes are (total of 4) she knows where my office is, all the when and where's she has. So my point is I would have to put my business and home up for sale. If my wife wants me to I will, It is uder POJA. I get caught I am toast. My wife will leave period. OW is a huge risk to me but I have to let her in, I WILL NOT. You will all see. Predict all you want, I know I will come through this time. Only time will tell you as I have no credibility. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My how things change sooooo quickly...put house up for sale??? Quit job??? Under POJA??? yea right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> House will be oging up for sale...only because dad hasn't owned up to his side of the bargain...Oh WAIT...he HASN"T seen her people! He HASN"T called her! I keep asking him if he wants me to buy him a trophy for NOT seeing her these past 3 weeks...He DID see her..that is when our recovery STOPPED!!! He just doesn't "get it"...He is cold and fogged out now!

Oct 10, 2004
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want my life back because strangely my last 9 months were a total waste. I hurt my family, hurt myself and lost all that precious time to enjoy what I consider to be a great life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oct 10, 2004
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I took my wife for granted that simple. I used her good nature against her to prolong my A. Yes disgusting I know. Once I saw she could go at any time and she could do better and leave me flat on my face it got real hard to justify the A. I will have no contact with OW period. Doctor visits whatever not my problem, it may not even be mine. My wife still loves me and wants our marriage as long as I follow through. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AS LONG AS I FOLLOW THROUGH

following through means throught you MIND as well...may not be in the A physically, but mentally yes....read the title of this thread...ACTIONS speak louder than words. He hasn't approached me in three weeks...what happened to the 500 times a day reassurance, the I love you"s, the I cant wait to prove to you how much I want you/love you, the I cant believe I ever doubted us...all gone...out the door...

Oct 10, 2004
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I now see what I have and can easily lose. I do love my wife otherwise I would have left and not come back. I always came back. Now I need her to see I am staying for good as a loving husband who will give her all my love and attention. she will get a new redefined husband who will put her needs on top and make her feel she made the right choice to stay with me. This will not be the same marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What happened??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> a new redefined husband??? wow, if this is what new, redefined husband is... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Put my needs on top and make me feel I made the right choice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Oct 11, 2004
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hurt my wife I need to fully understand that to help us recover. I need to feel some of the pain she felt. I will never come close to what she felt </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your damn right about that one!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am not motivated by jealousy yes I am possesive of my beautiful wife but I love her and want her back. Before it was territorial a few months ago while I was in the A. Not the same feeling this time. I will go to work now and prove myself for today. Then tommorow and the next day. One by one. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel a huge weight has been lifted I am not struggling to juggle 2 lives, this is so much better than the mess I was living. In a way I want my wife to bash me now for all I have done but instead she is happy that her husband is back. This is the honeymoon and I know later she will need to get angry again. I will keep doing the right thing no matter how pissed off she gets, It is the healing process. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Dad keeps telling me over and over again that *I* will never get passed the past! When in reality, it is *HE* who will never get passed the past! I cant get passed the past if I am constantly reminded of it! I cant do that...anyway, must get to the grocery store.

If each of you allow yourselves to focus on the other's actions, healing change will be difficult.

Real change occurred when I stopped focusing on what my H was or wasn't doing and I focused on me... and I mean ME. The anger and frustration that both of you exhibit stems from not being able to control the other's actions or reactions. I remember being so PISSED that he brought this drama into our lives. I just wanted it OVER and I wanted my life back. I kept calling the OW to mess w/ her... to exhibit some control over her life... really, really bad on my part.

Then one day I had to really look @ what the anger was doing to my life. It was exhausting. I think I had finished Divorce Remedy (Weiner-Davis) and decided to make a plan & do some 180s. 1st, I stopped the arguments... if he baited, I didn't take the bait. I think "hmmmm," or "I don't know" became my answer of choice. Or, "do what you think is best." I also remember saying, "I can't control what you do."

I began individual counseling so as not to bend the ears of my friends so much... spent a year there.

There was also, for me, the aspect of the 'chase.' Telling him that I loved him, kissing him, asking him to come to bed. I stopped cold turkey. The next time I told him that I loved him we were being baptized together an he said "I love you, too."

What doing these things ensured was that when I made the decision that I would no longer tolerate the 'girlfriend,' I could put some teeth into that decision. I wasn't angry. I wasn't emotional and he knew I meant it. It is time to separate because I am unwilling to be in a marriage where you get to have a wife and a 'haram.' I had made a plan for MY healing... to be ready to make healthy decisions in my life... not decisions based on retaliation or anger.

Plan B can help you get the emotional distance you need... but it can't be a threat or manipulation... it is truly meant to keep your love bank strong and allow yourself some healing. Plan B and/or divorce are not weapons.

I made many mistakes on the Affair Rollercoaster, but also learned some of the best lessons on it.

Cali

Momof3boys,

I am stunned...I did not realise that the couple on last week`s Dr. Phil was you and your H. I normally do not post on General Questions however I do read (though not post) through the Pregancy board so I did know your story.

I just realised today who you were while flipping through the MB photo album.

I have to say you are one tough lady and I admire you a great deal for putting yourself on international televsison in an attempt to repair this. And I thought I had gumption. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> You beat me hands down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I watched that show closely. Since experiencing the pain and subsequent recovery from my own H`s A`s...learning about the whole process has become a hobby of mine. It intrigues me.

About the possibility of Dr. Phil finding you "stupid" for staying in the M....

To some outsiders this is the way it appears. But any of us who have been in the BS`s shoes know that this is not the case.

We are not stupid at all. We are fighting for what we know is right. We want the ideal outcome for ourselves and our families.

However I agree 100% with Dr. Phil`s advice. And I know you are a very intelligent woman...and it seems Dr. Phil does as well.

I think Dr. Phil would like to see a positive outcome for you and I understand where he is coming from with his advice to you that YOU have the ability to make certain decisions to enhance the possibilty of a positive result. There are no guarantees but you do have more power in this than you realise.

There is a huge difference between 'wanting' to be married and "needing" to be married.

When a BS is willing to tolerate a long period of mistreatment at the hands of the WS it gives the impression to everyone (the WS included) that the BS "needs" to be married rather than "wants' to be married.

There are many reasons why a person would need to be married...family reasons...social postion...finances...ect.

But there is only one reason why a person would "want" to be married and that is love. We want to be with people we love.

Your H is an intelligent man. Whether he admits it or not he knows exactly how cruel is is being to you. I am sure he is questioning himself as to the reasons why you are tolerating this. He may be drawing the conclusion that you "need' him rather than "want" him. I am sure he is asking himself "How could she love me after all I have put her through?' "Is it me she wants or what I can provide for her"

When you set a boundary with a WS and you give the NC ultimatum you are sending a VERY clear message to the WS that you do not need them. You are also sending the message that if you choose to remain in the M and work to repair the M it`s because you WANT the WS. If you remain in the M it`s because you want to...not because you NEED TO/HAVE TO.

I think most people would choose being wanted and loved over being needed.

I would venture the guess that the very fact that you are willing to tolerate this makes your H feel unloved.

My H finally snapped out of his fog when he realised that I was going end the M. He understood the jig was up and that I was going to move on without him. He had to make a decision and he had to make it fast. He had no room to waffle. So although I did not make the decision for him I forced him to make the decision.

I think this is what Dr. Phil is trying to have YOU do....force the decision. The longer it takes for the final decision to be made the LESS likely it will be that you have a good outcome. More time passes...more love it lost...the LB`s pile higher and higher and OW digs her claws in deeper an deeper.

You are such a lovely articulate woman. Life will have better things in store for you no matter how this turns out. You DO do have all the power to end this right now...one way or another.

And for Dadof3boys,

If you read this, if you don`t get on board soon it will be too late. However if you choose to repair this you will. It won`t be easy but it can be done. My H and I came through recovery and we had several different issues to deal with too...not just his A`s. If you want it and are willing to make the hard choices and do the work it can happen.

One more thing....do you realise that you are hurting the OW by your actions? Not just your W but the OW too. You are being equally cruel to both of them. It`s time you made a choice and let one go free to make a happy life for herself. You are hurting the two women that you profess to care about. Do they BOTH deserve this? Do you realise how you are hurting them both?

I think you know which woman would be the better choice here...You lucked out when you chose to marry your wife and I doubt you would have such luck twice in one lifetime.

<small>[ November 15, 2004, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Daisy37 ]</small>

m23b,

I've been following your story for a few days now.

It certainly is drama-filled.

I hope I will not be flamed by saying this, but here's my take on your sit.

You either have to kick him out or leave. The staus quo is not helping and is actually being counter-productive. He knows he can see this OW and carry on the A with relatively next to no consequences (you welcome him back when he wants you, you stay when there is the possibility of an OC, etc.) What is that saying? Insanity is doing the same thing, but expecting different results. This is what you are doing.

I know you are at horible time re: your father, but really, the stress and pain your WH is causing you is making this time worse, not better.

You need to focus on you- and I know this is hard because you read like a woman who needs to be in control, and you feel that going plan b is going to take away your control. but it wont. You keep talking about how you will not accept this way of life to your WH, yet you do nothing to follow through. This only gives your WH implied consent to his actions (and I know that is not the case).

You also keep saying "when is he going to realize?....". He may not. But why are you allowing yourself to react to his actions rather than going out and acting out (in a good way) yourself. You get that A's are wrong, he does not- so do something that is in accordance to that! Show him some consequences for his behaviour!

You are a mom- have you ever let your 3 boys experience the consequences of their behaviour? I'm sure you have. Your H needs this as much as you do. Right now he's getting you both and in doing so, he has no consequences of his actions- he doesn't even have to CHOOSE!!! He's got what he wants.

Please. I saw you on Dr. Phil and I could not belieive how nice and pretty and well spoken you are. You need to belieive in yourself. I know what A's do to one's self-esteem, especially if you are like me and did not have much to begin with. But at some point you have to say "enough is enough and I deserve more and better" ANd then you must follow through!

albw

YES! Cali,

That's when things turned around in our M too, when I "gave up" trying so hard to control the situation. I had to start removing myself from the arguments and anger. I was attacking my H, punishing him, making him pay for my pain and hurt. What helped was when I began to SHOW him how pained and hurt I was, and telling him.

I was never comfortable crying in front of him, telling him how hurt I was, but hte alternative was worse...I would get angry instead of cry...I would push him away instead of let him know how his actions made me feel.

This was a habit I had our entire M...the anger and rejection, the jealousy (found out later it was completely founded), the criticism. I tried to change throughout our M life...didn't want to be a nag like my mom. I had been given hints all throughout our M life, a couple of 2X4's, some gunshot wonds (figuratively), but it took a complete tornado and the threat of losing our M that woke ME up.

That was tough to take, I had spent so much time blaming HIM, and I had to look at what part I played in the "dance". And now that I've changed my dance steps, he has to change his dance steps too (or he'll look weird doing the robot while I'm doing the "Macarena"). And I'm still changing hte dance steps...to mix it up...and because I know he enjoys peace and tranquility, but he also enjoys excitement every now and again (so I hide around corners and try to scare him...or see him sitting on the sofa and will literally lunge toward him, but not fall too hard, I'm a big gal).

One other thing I can suggest? HUMOR!!
Add some humor to your lives, it dispels arguments and makes life joyful...hard to keep an argument going when you're laughing. One of our favorite tricks at the house is to open the dish sprayer with a rubber band...so the next time someone turns on the kitchen faucet they get a chestful of rain! You can put a love note on a post it note and place it on the underside of the computer mouse so the little bally thing won't work... But other than playing tricks, you can be more funloving, like practicing new hairdos in the shower with the shampoo...then walk out to show everyone...

We went to a marriage workshop with Mark Gungor "Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage." And he introduced something called a Flag Page, a website that asks you some questions then places you in categories that describe yourself...(there's a fee for the website, but it was SOooo worth it). There are 4 countries, Fun, Control, Perfect, and Peace. Can you guess what my country I live in is? Yep, the Fun country, but my minor country is Control. My H's Country of choice is Peace, and a side of Perfect... So we have some challenges.

Once I learned this, and was able to be OK with having Fun (and my H knew what a BIG part of my life this was) then I've been happier expressing myself. I have learned not to step on him and make the home a very peaceful place, and he seems happier too. He wanted to go to a friends house to play with a new toy for our son, and I asked him to come home, that I wanted to play with it too, and he CAME HOME...a MAJOR change...in the past he would have looked for ANY excuse to get away.

I've rattled on, thanks for opening me up...

So let's see...

You are not in Plan A.
You are not in Plan B.
You are not in Recovery...not really.
WS is still contacting OW.
You are continuing with AO's LB'sand DJ's.

Your thread is titled, ACTIONS speak louder than words!!! You continue to make this all about the WS when if fact it should be all about you and what actions YOU are taking to protect yourself from the actions of the WS.

Even with the assistance of the infamous Dr. Phil your only concerns seem to be how you looked on tv and whether you came across as a doormat. Comments like *wait till next week, I really take control of the stage* just promote the continuing self-nourished drama.

You are so out of control it's ridiculous. This website is nothing more than a place for you and your WS to do battle and seek attention for your unending drama from the unending supply of enablers on the site.

So, perhaps you've heard this line before...how's this workin' for ya?

This is my opinion of the m2,d2 circus. I think this site is doing more harm to your marriage than it is restoration.

(minor edit)

<small>[ November 15, 2004, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

I think this site is doing more harm to your marriage than it is restoration.


I've been in a circus for more than 2 years. More than 1,400 posts, 80 of them with Dr. Harley on the private forum. More than 100 therapy sessions.

It is very hard to understand what to do when you are committed to marriage and yet living with a man who does not honor those vows. After all this time, I have finally come to realize that I am the one who needs to change.

I think MT3B is right there. You cannot change your husband. You can only change yourself. Do you accept your husband's behavior or not? If not, you can honor your marriage vows, and give your spouse a chance to decide to care for you, by separating.

MT3B, consider reading my exchange with Dr. Harley on the private forum under conversation. I sense that you are close to seeing those two facts as well.

Cherished

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
[QB] Got in late last night! It has been utter HELL here at the house. Sarcasm, accusations, "Yup, I knew you would do that" and so on, on dad's part. I have asked him NOT TO talk to me, yet he continues in the path of destruction. I have told him I am moving forward, with or without him...he KNOWS that I would rather it be WITH him, but he still doesn't "get it"...get the fact that I will not live in the past the rest of my life. He cant get over the fact that *I* had lunch with an old HS school FRIEND...NOT FLAME...FRIEND!!! While he was effing (as kimmy says) a slut in MY bed! He also cant get over the fact that Dr. Phil called him on that one. "I cant believe he said something about that..I'm really going to look bad after that" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That is the LEAST of my worries...you see, he doesn't feel badly that he had her over here, he feels badly that he got CAUGHT! See the irony of this???
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok first of all had my WH had his slut in our bed....I would have kicked his [censored] and he knows I could have so he never did.....dad...you need to wake the fudge up....i've been in the fog I KNOW.....what your doing right now WILL loose you your family...think about this....should you continute on your path and end up loosing your family...how will you explain it to your boys when they ask you why you don't want to live with them or be a family with them....how are you gonna explain to them why you left them and started another family with OW....imagine there little faces and how they will loose respect for you as they grow up and watch you putz around making these mistakes....they will have the love and respect for mom...not you...you yourself have already heard it from there mouths there opinion on the situation....they are VERY smart kids....*kicks dad* now stop acting like a [censored] or I WILL come down there

I've been reading all of this ever since I saw mom and dad on Dr. Phil last week, and subsequently found this board...anyway, the more I read, the less respect I have for dad and the less hope for their marriage. Sorry, but that's just the way I see it.

The man has zero respect for his family. I don't know how anyone with an iota of integrity could have unprotected sex with a woman who has already had one illegitimate child and is so obviously trying for another in an attempt to permanently tie herself legally and financially to dad. Is this self-proclaimed intellectual saying he can't see through the tramp? She's transparent, her motives are deafening, and he didn't even see it. He still can't see it. He had the nerve to defend someone like that to his wife? She's done something so cruel yet he's blind to it. It makes my stomach turn. This pregnancy is damaging to his children and the unborn child. What kind of corrupt person would purposely plan this? How can he do that to his sons and how can mom forgive that? I couldn't. Better still, how could he like a person like that? It boggles the mind.

Mom I feel for you but you have to think of yourself and your children. They are the innocent victims of your husband's selfishness. Maybe it would be best if he went to the OW, gave you half the assets, 52% of his income (which you are legally entitled to), then stopped torturing you with his fickleness. Let him get a taste of reality with OW (who sounds like a fabulous mom by the way - making then not raising her babies) and a newborn, I bet the fantasy comes to a screeching halt. On the plus side, he won't be bored anymore.

He can't make a decision but you can. You can live a happy, fulfilling life without him, and he will live a life of misery with OW (of that I have NO DOUBT), forsaking those beautiful boys. Be strong, he wants OW, I think he should have her. They deserve eachother.

just checking in hey mom you out there? how ya doin hun?

I'm ok...still reading, but really dont have much to say right now...I am just thinking a lot right now. Thinking of my future and what to do...taking care of ME...I'm in SAT right now, with my DS4...But I am hanging in there. I'll be OK...thanks darlin!

so I guess dad is too chicken to read the forum anymore......I am still tempted to come down there...glory be....it would be nice to have a friend close and nearbye.....