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Well, I know I have not been marriage building for a very, very long time. And I do not know if I can switch gears and have some of the old pros (like WAT, Melody, Pep, Just J, AMM, ARK, etc) comment on what I am dealing with now, but, I would very much appreciate some semi-objective insights.
WH is home for the next month. He is not home to build the marriage, he is not here to recovery, he is not home for any other reason but that he is broke, and wants to spend some extra time with the kids, until his apartment is ready in December. I offered to let him stay here...
Since he has been back, he has done a myriad of disrespectful things, and I am not sure what I should be doing at this point!
1.) Using my computer to email OW.
2.) Submitting my children to VERY ungodly things (music, movies, etc)
3.) Saying he was here to see the kids, but has barely spent a second with them
4.) Acting like he owns the place.
I am a total and utter idiot. I need to define some boundaries, but then, am struggling with guilt from feeling like if I am too constrictive, he will leave, and I will have the burden of making my childrens father leave the house.
Insights?
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SerendipiT, I am just going to get out of the way for lemonman's coming post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I am just trying to understand WHY you would let him home once he was out? Please give me some of your reasoning for this action?
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Ummm...Cymanca. Good question. Because he was previously in Canada for a 9-week training assignment. My children were very very very hurt that he would totally leave like that, and if they did not feel abandoned enough already, they certainly did then.
When he shared that he was moving out of his place to save on rent while he was gone, and then later, that his new place was not available until 12/10, it seemed logical that the time at the house here would give him the desperately needed opportunity to reconnect with them.
I decided I needed to get over myself. It was no longer about me, but about them. And they needed me to be strong, and let them have this time.
That was my logic anyways.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SerendipiT: <strong> Well, I know I have not been marriage building for a very, very long time. And I do not know if I can switch gears and have some of the old pros (like WAT, Melody, Pep, Just J, AMM, ARK, etc) comment on what I am dealing with now, but, I would very much appreciate some semi-objective insights. WH is home for the next month. He is not home to build the marriage, he is not here to recovery, he is not home for any other reason but that he is broke, and wants to spend some extra time with the kids, until his apartment is ready in December. I offered to let him stay here... Since he has been back, he has done a myriad of disrespectful things, and I am not sure what I should be doing at this point! 1.) Using my computer to email OW. 2.) Submitting my children to VERY ungodly things (music, movies, etc) 3.) Saying he was here to see the kids, but has barely spent a second with them 4.) Acting like he owns the place. I am a total and utter idiot. I need to define some boundaries, but then, am struggling with guilt from feeling like if I am too constrictive, he will leave, and I will have the burden of making my childrens father leave the house. Insights? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow !!! DO you realize how incredibly dysfunctional your line of thinking is? You let him back NOT BECAUSE he wants to work on the marriage, not because he wants recovery, but because he is broke and needs a play to stay untill his "love palace" is complete. He once again dishonors you by using your computer to email the the OW, and does not aby time with your children. Hers is a big 2 X 4 coming to you !!!!!!!! THIS IS DOORMAT BEHAVIOR. THIS IS NOT PLAN A BEHAVIOR !!!! How can he possibly respect you ? HOW???? DO you have such littel self love for your slef that you would let this man do this to you? ANd to top it off, you are feeling guilty that if he leaves because you are being too constrictive you will have the burdeb of mkaing their father leave. OMG !!!! YOu know, I can't help but wonder if somehow the principles of Marriage builders have confused you. You are acting in a self denegarting, self dishonorable way. I am sorry if this post is not filled with love and support, but you just don't get it. I am truly sorry for your pain, but at this point you are doing more hurt to your children and self tnan helping. This is sad to watch. Good luck and best wishes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca: <strong> SerendipiT, I am just going to get out of the way for lemonman's coming post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I am just trying to understand WHY you would let him home once he was out? Please give me some of your reasoning for this action? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am pretty predictable huh? Well as predictable as I am, I look for Believer to chime in here any second with a post on how Plan A needs to be continued... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...this is not funny, it is actually pathetic and sad.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wow !!! DO you realize how incredibly dysfunctional your line of thinking is? You let him back NOT BECAUSE he wants to work on the marriage, not because he wants recovery, but because he is broke and needs a play to stay untill his "love palace" is complete. He once again dishonors you by using your computer to email the the OW, and does not aby time with your children. Hers is a big 2 X 4 coming to you !!!!!!!! THIS IS DOORMAT BEHAVIOR. THIS IS NOT PLAN A BEHAVIOR !!!! How can he possibly respect you ? HOW???? DO you have such littel self love for your slef that you would let this man do this to you? ANd to top it off, you are feeling guilty that if he leaves because you are being too constrictive you will have the burdeb of mkaing their father leave. OMG !!!! YOu know, I can't help but wonder if somehow the principles of Marriage builders have confused you. You are acting in a self denegarting, self dishonorable way. I am sorry if this post is not filled with love and support, but you just don't get it. I am truly sorry for your pain, but at this point you are doing more hurt to your children and self tnan helping. This is sad to watch. Good luck and best wishes </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lemon: Ok. I can buy all of that...easy on saying I am pathetic...I will show you how pathetic I am when I whoop up on ya! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The thing I struggle with is that previously, before the affair, before all of it, I was the most disrespectful, cruel, hurtful, abusive, Love Buster on the planet earth. I am in advertising, so I think on marketing terms, and in marketing terms, I was the biggest WITCH on the earth, that was my brand name, and I could illicit, proudly at the time, a shudder with my Witch-with-a-B behavior. Now, I do not want to be that person. Regardless of the outcome of this marriage, I do not want to be that person. I need help developing boundaries now, without the old "image" popping up. In other words, I have confronted many of the issues detailed above, but I tried to do it supremely patiently, calmly, and respectfully. However, one of two things happens. I am still the big bad WITCH, or, there is not effect at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SerendipiT: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wow !!! DO you realize how incredibly dysfunctional your line of thinking is? You let him back NOT BECAUSE he wants to work on the marriage, not because he wants recovery, but because he is broke and needs a play to stay untill his "love palace" is complete. He once again dishonors you by using your computer to email the the OW, and does not aby time with your children. Hers is a big 2 X 4 coming to you !!!!!!!! THIS IS DOORMAT BEHAVIOR. THIS IS NOT PLAN A BEHAVIOR !!!! How can he possibly respect you ? HOW???? DO you have such littel self love for your slef that you would let this man do this to you? ANd to top it off, you are feeling guilty that if he leaves because you are being too constrictive you will have the burdeb of mkaing their father leave. OMG !!!! YOu know, I can't help but wonder if somehow the principles of Marriage builders have confused you. You are acting in a self denegarting, self dishonorable way. I am sorry if this post is not filled with love and support, but you just don't get it. I am truly sorry for your pain, but at this point you are doing more hurt to your children and self tnan helping. This is sad to watch. Good luck and best wishes </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lemon: Ok. I can buy all of that...easy on saying I am pathetic...I will show you how pathetic I am when I whoop up on ya! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The thing I struggle with is that previously, before the affair, before all of it, I was the most disrespectful, cruel, hurtful, abusive, Love Buster on the planet earth. I am in advertising, so I think on marketing terms, and in marketing terms, I was the biggest WITCH on the earth, that was my brand name, and I could illicit, proudly at the time, a shudder with my Witch-with-a-B behavior. Now, I do not want to be that person. Regardless of the outcome of this marriage, I do not want to be that person. I need help developing boundaries now, without the old "image" popping up. In other words, I have confronted many of the issues detailed above, but I tried to do it supremely patiently, calmly, and respectfully. However, one of two things happens. I am still the big bad WITCH, or, there is not effect at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not saying you are pathetic...please don't think that. I understand your pain and how incredibly hard this must be for you. I was really talking about the overall situation and your husbands behavior. I only hope the best for you. Please don't think that I am judging you, I AM NOT. I do think that you aren't showing yourslef enough self love here. That is all I really intended to post to you.
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Dipiti, You are not pathetic, confused maybe, doing some fence-sitting of your own. I made some pretty big mistakes myself being too darn soft all the while being abused mentally by my W's selfish, disrespectful actions, YOU WILL EVENTUALLY GET TIRED OF IT, YOUR WS WILL EVENTUALLY PUSH YOU SO FAR PASS YOUR BOILING POINT THAT YOU WILL SNAP OUT OF IT. I agree with Lemonman, he's just concerned for you and your childrens mental health. Your H is abusing them and infecting them with his selfish and fogged actions. Right now your H is the equivalent of a HEROINE ADDICT and you are all but buying him the drugs. At least make him have to go out and score his own dope. Get it? Please take care of yourself, you and your family deserve so much better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Sincerely, FM
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I haven't been checking in lately, so it was a nice surprise to hear from you ... well, nice and not nice, given how you're doing!
I guess I can see your point of view about Plan A, so it's hard for me to condemn what you've done. I'll let others chime in.
But one thing I've seen so many BW's do, that won't work: YOU CANNOT MANIPULATE YOUR WH INTO CARING FOR THE KIDS! I see so many BWs, on MB and in my own life, try to get fogged-out H's to act like fathers. They break their own nose on this one. Having him in the house isn't helping them -- it's hurting them more, it seems.
If he's not taking on the role of father -- count him out, write him off. Maybe in four or five years he'll see what he's done -- and maybe the kids will let him back in. But trying to get him to take on the role will waste your energy and frustrate you. Start thinking of him being out -- for the rest of their lives. Suppose he dropped dead. How would you accommodate and absorb the "dad" role into your household then? Start doing it now.
That will make the issues of your marriage, divorce, etc., clearer to you. He won't have anything to bargain with or withhold from you -- since you've already counted him out. He will have to bargain his way back in when he is serious about being a father again, if ever. It will make you a tougher, cooler negotiator as well.
Right now, the children need protection FROM him. The messages he is sending are hurtful.
My own credentials: my stepkids' mom has trying to make my WH "active" in their lives for years. It hasn't worked. He's fogged out again in an A -- just like he was with her. (Wasn't me. I'm #3.)
Just had my college-age stepkids over for dinner -- as I do every week. I'm trying to provide some caring for all the kids. I don't think they'll ever recover from his emotional neglect, paired with his nominal presence. And their mom was so twisted up in these issues -- I don't think they'll get over that, either. They need someone to care FOR THEM, not someone trying to manipulate someone else caring for them.
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DipiT,
I so agree with the others. Get him out of there. After a month of putting up with his sorry [censored] you are going to be a wreck.
Can you tell him you changed your mind and he must go now?
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The thing I struggle with is that previously, before the affair, before all of it, I was the most disrespectful, cruel, hurtful, abusive, Love Buster on the planet earth. that was then dipity...(as familymatters put it...cute...)....this IS now... the thing is that to every WS and to every BS we promote the ABILITY and POTENTIAL that people CAN and DO change.... BS CAN change WS CAN change... pain and growth and changing thought processes... is done here again again... so what about the type of person you WERE ?? can't change that can't do anything about it... so what!!! this is here and this is now...and YOU are no longer that person...and you can not let your fear or embarrassment of who you once were stand in the way of who you are today... today you say to him.. softly gently this isn't working. I am sorry it isn't working it was a mistake you have to leave.... with out fear of what he interperts or accuses you of reverting back to.. as long as YOU know that YOU will never ever go back to being that person...then you are fine... and those old patterns die hard....and they may and will resurface at times of crisis..think before you act....think before you lose the control you have worked hard at... and know that person is not you.... and that you choose to neve back to being her... I was people and persons in the past that I did and do not like today.... I have some of those demons... some that I am ashamed of.... and sometimes I can see my reaction to something being just a knee-jerky and cruel if I choses too... but I try not to... and find that even my worst lashing out today..is nothing compared to what I used to be like... so I know I have changed.... and you have as well.... this is not an emotional beating up issue... this is a logistical pragmatic issue... husband.. this will not bode well with our divorce process... I can not have you here emailing and contacting women while this is going on...and I can not will not ask you not to do...but I will ask and insist that you leave.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> See how kind hearted you really are... dear I won't control you or even try to control you...but go play with your OW somewhere else.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ARK
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Wow! Thank you so so so so so much MB friends. Coming through for me AGAIN.
Last night, I was on the phone in my room, and he knocked on the door to ask if I was on the phone. I told him yes. He said he had wanted to use the phone. I told him, "sorry." Then, a few minutes later, he got in his car and left. I am sure he was going to a pay phone to call one of the several OW.
So, I decided last night, pretty much exactly what Ark said.
Gently go in and say "WH, this is not working. You need to leave. Please be out by Saturday."
I decided, he could react two ways.
a.) Argue at the injustice of it all, what did I do?? I will explain that I cannot continue to be hurt (calls, emails to OW, late nights out with friends, his current lifestyle, etc).
b.) He could act very indignant, and basically say, I told you it would not work, act as if it was his idea to leave. In which case, I will not dignify his response. Just say thank you.
My son told me this weekend, he wished Dad would just go. So the "reason" I justified in my mind of him being here is not even panning out.
I went in this morning, to tell him, and totally lost my nerve. I asked him where he went last night. He lied and told me, "I was not ready for bed yet, so I went to Starbucks, but they were closed, so I came home." That is ridiculous, I know it is, etc.
I had totally planned on moving the conversation of, ok, you are doing some disrespectful and hurtful things, I just don't think this a good idea, I believe it best you go.
He said what he said this morning, and I just went DUH...froze...and said OK and walked away. STUPID!
I am struggling, almost exactly as Lemonman described, with why I do not demand more respect from WH. There is no other context in my life where I would allow someone to treat me this way. Yet, I have allowed so so so so so so much more disrespectful, cruel, mean, selfish behavior from WH. And this all predates the current A, turn of events, etc. WHY?? There was NEVER any other love relationship, ANTYTHING where I would have been tolerant of this behavior, and I am not understanding WHY I am doing this.
Any other comments would be more than welcome.
Thanks everyone for your insights.
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Hi DipiT! Good to hear from you, but not good to witness what's going on. Everything that was written to you is so "right on". I usually don't think it's best to tell someone what to do, but in this case it is necessary. Am I remembering correctly that your H spent a weekend with you several months ago and you couldn't stand it? I think you even brought up the possibility of him staying with you for a month back then. Dipi, you are one tough Mama! I know this for a fact. Get strong and kick this exH's butt of yours out of your home. Of course do it in the respectful way Ark outlined for you. Something like, "H, this ain't working for me. I thought it was a good idea at the time to have you stay here, but you know what, it isn't. We are getting Ded and this situation is confusing and damaging to me and our children. Of course I will always welcome you into our children's lives as their father, but you will have to fulfill that role living elsewhere." Hey, if you have to, write your thoughts down and either read them out loud to him, or give him a letter.
What A.M. said is so true. You can't make him make good choices. Either he is going to choose to be a responsible good dad, or sadly he won't. Dipi, if your DS is saying he wants his dad to leave, then you know it is the right move. Also, I remember he didn't exactly help you out financially when you 2 were separated. Let him fend for himself now. Set up those bounderies girl, PRONTO! I'm giving you a great big, cyber bear hug!!! You can do this! He is still an alien creature. Send him back to the mother-ship as fast as you can. CV
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Thank you CV. Everyone can use my story as a perfect case study of what NOT to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
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DipiT, I won't tolerate you putting yourself down. Now how many times have I had to write this exact post to you in the past? OK, here goes. I was a 1st hand witness to how hard you tried to save your M. Your H is still reliving his adolescence. This is his choice and you can't do anything about it. You did many things right. Presently you may have made a slight(OK, more like huge)error in allowing him to stay with you. That can be corrected. This is something you do have control over. Let the alien H find his own place to live. You were being kind and he isn't being kind or respectful back. Sometimes witchy is good. Be a good witchy woman now! Send him on his merry way! Then we can have a cyber goodbye party, OK? CV
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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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Pardon me, Serendipity, but you referred to multiple OWs??????? I thought he was with the Calcutta Babe? Or am I getting confused?
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AMM: Sorry it took me so long to respond. Get this...he has asked India-chic to marry him (they call each other "my dear husband" and "my darling wife"). So, he is (this is hard to follow):
Cheating on his wife with India chic, cheating on his fiance India chic, with a new one, Toronto-chic, and now I am learning of a new one, San Antonio chic.
He is an international cheater.
I told him to go. And so, the drama begins.
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SerenDipiT,
First, I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. Giving him shelter after he caused you so much pain may not have been a very smart thing to do - but it suggests to me that you have a very good heart.
On the issue of telling him to get out: would it be easier if you did that in writing? It's easy to lose your nerve when you are eye-to-eye with someone. But...putting things in writing can make it a lot easier.
Maybe since your husband likes email so much, you should send him one?
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Does India chick (Calcutta Cutie? Delhi doll, Bombay bombshell, Tamil tamale, Ceylon Sweetie?) know of the others?
<small>[ November 17, 2004, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>
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