Kandi,

Hoping you are finding some peace on this holiday as you grieve the loss of your dad. I hadn't read this update until now and, of course, like everyone else, urge you to protect yourself and the boys from any more chaos.

I liked wath FaithfulNew said: treat yourself and your mom to creature comforts and gain a strong footing.

You deserve a break.

~ Snow

Some friends of ours invited us over today. As I posted on my other thread, the service yesterday was beautiful. The music played was

"Go rest high on that mountain"...played at the beginning

"We'll meet again"...thank you to whoever found that song for me...

"I'm already there"...my tribute to my dad

"Tears in heaven"
"I will remember you"

Dad stood up at the podium with me while I read the Eulogy. WE visited Daddy today. The alien left a while ago cuz he has an ER shift tonight and tomorrow...

Bottom line is that he screwed up and got caught AGAIN...

So, what do I do now...I have already kicked him out of the house...did I over react? MAYBE!!!, but dangit, I AM NOT going to live this way. He says to me, "just dont file for a divorce" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Well, what the heck does that mean? Dont file for a DIVORCE????

CJ...WE gave my dad the most wonderful service we could have...I am taking care of my mom and she me...We are going to go shopping tomorrow and take the boys to see Polar Express

LIR...makes perfect sense to me what you said...you heard dad on TV... OW is in a DESPERATE situation! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> DANG...I was never in a DESPERATE situation when I was PG...WOW, that's gotta hurt the ego <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I wonder, just wonder what goes thru a WS's and an OW's mind for that matter, who have been on national TV tellng their story and then go BACK to the OW....what will everyone think once they hear this from ME in a few months. And yes, I will go back in a few months for an update.

He knows why he isn't home now...he knows...I will miss him, but I will move on...I will make our life as normal as I posibly can for me and my boys. I lost my daddy and my H on the exact same day! Hard to believe. Hard to believe that I called him at the moment my dad died the first time and he was tlaking to the OW...(he died twice that day...the first time he came back to life for some unknown reason only GOD will know, but he did)...

I told him I had no intentions of filing for divorce as long as he is NOT in contact with the OW...did you know he was already back in contact with her when I said this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I just cannot imagine a woman tkaing somone back like him after he goes on TV and insults her lke that...He laughed when I said she lives at home...he said she was desperate...WOW! She really must be desperate...Well, I can still look at MYSELF in the mirror each morning...I can still hold my head up high and walk out my front door! YUP, that's me...I can do that...

I am hoping to go to Disney Land for Christmas...I will take my mom with us and celebrate the new year with Mickey and co...

I could not get thru the most difficult time in my life without all my MB frineds. tHank you so much...

Much love,
kandi

Kandi,
Please read my posts under conversation on the private forum. I feel like I fell down a chute. Now my H is willing to go through Harley's program, and I don't know if it matters any more.

You don't seem to have gotten to that point yet -- God knows why! What you need to do is file for divorce to protect the financial support of your children while making it clear to him that the door is open to reconciliation. At this point, it may make sense to say that you need to relocate and have him file a restraining order against OW if she contacts him again. There are ways....

Please do let us know when you go back on the dr phil show.

Cherished

Thanks Cherished...I will have to read that thread when I have a bit more time and my mind is a bit clearer..It looks pretty long <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I know I shouldn't make any final decisions at this moment...at this time of my life...My gosh though, I have been dealing with this for almost a full year...how much more can one endure?

I just dont know what to do...I know what to do thta is best for the kids? But what is best for ME? I need to just let him go...I cant live with sharing my H for the rest of my life...NOPE didn't sign up for that...and he knows that...

I know him and i know he will use the fact that *I* kicked him out as his ticket to see her

"well, you kicked me out, what was I supposed to do"

he doesn't see the reason WHY he got kicked out...

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, IF he can live up to my boundries then we can reconcile...but I will set some high boundries this time...I need to come up with a list...and yes I WILL proceed with the divorce as to PROTECT my children...do you hear that DAD..PROTECT OUR children...I will NOT let that woman take what is our childrens...like I said to DT3B before..I willlive on the streets if I have to, but I will be damned if our kids will...And if it takes a divorce to protect those kids, I will do it.

does filing for divorce give him the right to go back with the OW? NOOOO, it does not...just as the big man said "You need to finish THIS relationship FIRST before you start on another one"...PERIOD!

BUT, in his mind, he has said it does...he said that when I spoke to the lawyer, that meant it was ok for him to speak to her... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

So, I have huge dicisions to make in the upcoming year? gonna need lots of support...from everyone..

EVERYONE...ML, WAT, PEP, ARK...everyone...let me have it...tell me what you think...go on..give it to me...

m23b

"he will use that fact that I kicked him out as an ticket to see her"

Ticket = excuse, and all excuses are of equal value..did you have a preference? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

"well, you kicked me out, what was I supposed to do?"

What he is supposed to do depends entirely on where he wants to go.

"he doesn't see the reason why he got kicked out"

Do you really believe that?

"I will not let that woman take what is our childrens"

Right on! So what are you doing now/today to secure their future?

"he said that when I spoke to the lawyer, that meant it was ok for him to speak to her."

Transparent emotional blackmail..however, the reverse holds true, no? Since he spoke to her, I guess your hands are tied, you'll have to speak with your lawyer as per his stipulations. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />


Noodle

Hey noodle...thanks for the laugh...first time i have laughed in about 5 days...except for the day of my dad's funeral when the yellow jacket was chasing me across the parking lot and I threw my bag across in front of an oncoming car...Then when I got IN the car, my car, the yellow jacket was on my moms purse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> that was pretty funny...

Really, I enjoyed, your post...

so what am I doing TODAY to secure my childrens future...nothing since I am still in SAT...I took them to see The Incredibles though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I will however be contacting my lawyer when I return to town to SECURE the childrens future...and I KNOW that if dad is reading and i Know he is...he would want the same thing. although he says he would always support me and the kids financially if the court gives that damn BI*CH everything, then what is left for us...sorry, but if that is the only way to secure our future...gotta do it...

I'm still laughing..thanks noodle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

"he said he would always support me and the kids financially"

He also said he would love, honor, cherish, and forsake all others.

Words are meaningless and forgettable..depeche mode

Noodle

you are right noodle...that is why I am seeing a lawyer and why I SAW one a week ago... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

From what I saw here in Minnesota, when you go to a lawyer, it's all about money. How much money does it take to run a household with three children? Child support is a set percent, and alimony is the difference between what child support is and what you can reasonably expect to need to run your household. That's in Minnesota, not Texas.

Save receipts. Is he out of the house?

Cherished

Mom -

Now is the time for you to take care of yourself. Unfortunately, Dad is still addicted, although he doesn't realize it. You have been through too much (Believer hugs Mom, and pats her on the back).

I wouldn't do anything right now. Just relax, and recuperate. I still have a lot of hope for your family (and even Dad). This addiction stuff is tough.

I kicked him out of the house last Sunday, the night my dad died. Actually BEFORE my dad died when I confirmed from the last number dialed on the phone it was HERS! WHat a dork! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm not gonna say anything on here, but I do know that I will be taken care of, rightfully so, when it comes time for the divorce...Dang, I followed this man around the freakin world and contry for 12 years...supported him thru thick and thin...spent countless, sleepless nights while he went thru residency and also moonlighted...I also supported him on the job he accepted in this God forsaken city I am stuck in even though I didn't want to move here...supported him when he quit the group he was in and decided to go solo...And I even supported him in his decision to take on the directorship of those DA*N Nursing Homes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> all for what???

Well, it is now time to bathe my son's and time for mommy to go to bed...I hope <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm glad he's out. You deserve better.

geez I swear will he never learn....well his loss your gain.....and I know you've heard that said from many people....now as for the "legal matter" from experience like i said you have 3 children compaired to the wicked B!tch of the souths 1 who isn't born and YOU are the wife who has been left...Judge will definatly favor you over a slutty mantrapping mistress *read that dad and evil wench <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> *....and I swear woman if you go to disneyland and don't come to say hi I will be very VERY insulted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .....but anyways I have now joined the ranks with treereich....my WH is no longer the object of need and want I care to chase after or plan A or even plan B anymore....one day *after starting AD's* I was sitting there and had this wake up call....It just hit me.......I have been sitting here for 3-4 months crying and being depressed over his sorry cheating A$$.....and what for to be miserable...HELL NO...No more I say....I had 6 different guys ask me out and turned them all down because I was so devoted....and the depression I had been slipping into well it was making my every waking moment horrible...so I got up off my duff and have been mostly enjoying raising my son...we have SUCH a good time together....he is the best date i've ever had....we have great convos *toddler giberish mind you*...and after the date I get so much love....hugs and kisses and giggles.....so we have been having a great time together making memories on our own...visiting museums and aquariums and such....and then something spectacular happened....I meet a guy....and I really like him....but if anything is to happen it won't for awhile we are taking it slow...as we both just got out of long relationships...and both had our hearts stomped on....but I really think he's amazing and he knows about my son and thinks he is cute as a button and can't wait to one day meet him......so see mom good things can happen.....I know karma will rule out in the end....something amazing and fun and happy and ubberly good will happen to you...and dad...weeelll lets just say karma works both ways *evil grin*....*hugs* take care girl

<small>[ November 26, 2004, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: missinghimterribly ]</small>

Mom...I know that you are hurt and hurt beyond words. Just one advice to you...do not act on something when you are hurt and angry.

Do not divorce because you are angry and hurt. This is not the right thing to do. You might regret it later.

Be absolutely calm when you decide on something like this.

You can do a legal separation of something but dont do divorce yet. Not now...not when you are hurt. Grief for your dad and then grief for the lost of your marriage. Dont rush.

I did the same thing like you did. I used the same excuse to protect me and my DD financially blah blah...we divorce them because this is what our WS DO NOT want us to do and we know this will hurt them. Divorce will not get WS back. Patience will.

You are very confuse now....take time to relax and cool down.

I have done everything and my signed divorce papers are now sitting on the table. Only then did my own cloud of pain cleared and i realise that this is not the path i want to go on...at least not yet. I am now taking a sort of cooling off period to think. I feel you should do the same...

Take care

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">geez I swear will he never learn....well his loss your gain.....and I know you've heard that said from many people </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His loss is no one's gain. Everyone is hurt and everyone suffers.

Dadto-no-one's actions inflict pain to all involved.

((((Momto3boys))))Peace to you.

Susan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"he said that when I spoke to the lawyer, that meant it was ok for him to speak to her."

Just trying to put some perspective here...and correct me if my memory is not correct....but hadn't he already left you at the time you hooked up with that old boyfriend for your "inappropriate, but NOT an affair" emails with your old boyfriend???? Were you not called a bunch of nasty names for that????

Good for the goose, good for the gander, seems to only apply to HIM????

I'm not surprised he hasn't been here lately. HE KNOWS that he has been a cad. His pregnant OW is no doubt giving him all of the ego boosting he needs. He is "finding himself" at the expense of his wife and 3 beautiful sons. There's no defense that anybody would buy on this one...not on this board...and not in real life (except for those in OW's world, who would see his "sticking by her" as somehow noble).

Dr. P was correct, he has to finish off this relationship before moving forward with this next one. That fact that he is fence-sitting "do not file for divorce Kandi" is unfair to EVERYBODY in this situation...except for himself of course....he's buying time to see how the cards fall before he makes a commitment. Unfair to you, your kids, your families.....and even unfair to his pregnant OW.

I fear for this man's emotional future. He's made a major mess of many lives. Let's see what he is made of. Will he continue to be a [censored] in the divorce proceedings? Will he be hateful to you Kandi? Will he try to make it up to the boys "somehow" (and I don't know how...but honesty and willingness are part of that). Is he up to the task of mending the wounds that he has bestowed?

Kandi, want to say that I am glad you were able to recognize a little levity at your father's funeral (with the yellowjacket incident). Your Dad would have wanted you to have the ability to laugh, even though broken-hearted.

How are your boys doing with Dad out of the house AGAIN? Even if he decides to stay in the marriage, and deal with his OC responsibly, my thoughts are that he should NOT live in the family home for quite awhile. He yo yo'd in and out...and I don't think it's fair to you or the boys to have to worry about the next yo yo trip out of the door.

My thoughts are with your family as you deal with this.

Thank you to all who have replied...JanetS, actually we haven't even been home since he has been out of the house...my dad passed THAT night, so we have been in SAT since then. We go back tomorrow (sunday). It will be very difficult on the boys, but he has made his bed and I feel he needs to sleep in it for a while.

I am not sure WHY he doesn't want me to file for the D...all his actions tell me otherwise. He says he loves me and I do believe him, but I have also said I will not share my *H* with anyone else...Right now he is a WH, not a H as orchid would say and I have to agree with her.

I am not going to *FILE* for the Divorce yet, but I will get all the paperwork going. Doesn't mean I have to file...I know I must grieve for my dad, and I really dont think THAT has hit me yet...the fact that he is not here anymore hasn't set in yet. Once again, the alien has made it a priority for me to focus on HIM and not anything else. hard NOT to...

MHT, as much as I appreciate your post and your enthusiasm for meeting another man in YOUR life, I will not go there. Just as the BIG man said "you have to finish THIS relationship before moving onto the next"...I never had any intentions on having an affair with another man...those emails were just that, emails...I never met with that old Boyfriend...

Two wrongs dont make a right and I am still married...no matter what the circumstances are, I am still a married woman and I will not be meeting any other man. I will however have fun with my boys. I am in no hurry whatsoever to meet another man. If I did, it would only be out of hurt and anger, thus draggin another person in the mess of things that my H has creeated.

So my goal for this week is to get ready for xmas, and get back on a schedule for the kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure WHY he doesn't want me to file for the D...all his actions tell me otherwise.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To me, looking in from the outside... his actions say he doesn't want a divorce. He wants a wife and family and a mistress and a family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He says he loves me and I do believe him,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What "love" means for him right now ---> he gets some of his needs met with you

... What love does not mean for him ---> interest in meeting your needs.

His definition of love is what feels good for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but I have also said I will not share my *H* with anyone else</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, you've not lived up to these words, hence you lack credibility in your resolve.

In fact, you've been sharing him for quite some time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...Right now he is a WH, not a H as orchid would say and I have to agree with her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes... here's an example...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Once again, the alien has made it a priority for me to focus on HIM and not anything else. hard NOT to...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A generous man?... I think not.
A kind man? ... I think not.
A thoughtful, careful man? ...I think not.
A man of purpose and courage? ... I think not.

This "dad" (using the phrase "dad" in the least meaningful way) is not an example of "Manhood" you'd deliberately choose to marry if you were dating.

Alien indeed. Child-like need for attention. If you review the tapes of the TV show.. look at how little genuine remorse he shows... he's all blustery and making faces for the camera.

Weird.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So my goal for this week is to get ready for xmas, and get back on a schedule for the kids.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love your goal! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep

<small>[ November 27, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

***That fact that he is fence-sitting "do not file for divorce Kandi" is unfair to EVERYBODY in this situation...except for himself of course....he's buying time to see how the cards fall before he makes a commitment. Unfair to you, your kids, your families.....and even unfair to his pregnant OW.***

I've said it before and I will say it again -- why are you waiting for this man to "choose" between his wife and his girlfriend?

Kandi -- he is not ever going to do that. He has said flat-out that what he wants is BOTH of you, and that's exactly what he's got. He is not going to make a commitment to one or the other. The only commitment he will ever make is to himself and to having a varied sex life.

He doesn't necessarily have to have both women in the same house at once, though I'm sure he would like that. He'd fit in great with those polygamist families hiding out in Utah and Northern Arizona.

No, the back-and-forth thing that you have both been going along with for so long will suit him just fine. Either way, he's got two women to sleep with, and can just go from one to the other when he feels like it. (And I sure wouldn't be surprised to find that there is either a third woman, a series of one-night stands, or some prostitutes littering his trail, either.)

He has manipulated you both into going along with this. He stays with one of you for a while and professes fidelity and loyalty and love because that's what each of you wants to hear. Then, when he's itching to get a little taste of something different, he picks a fight, gets "kicked out" by the angry girlfriend or the evil wife, and goes straight into the waiting bed of the other one.

And in the meantime, both of you get angry and wring your hands and wonder why he won't "make up his mind" and "choose between you."

Again -- he is NOT going to "choose between you." He has chosen to live between two women, and he will pay any price to keep this arrangement.

What price are you willing to pay to live like this?

He has found out what you are willing to tolerate -- and no matter how hurt and angry you get, no matter what you say, you ARE tolerating it -- and now that he knows this, he will go right on digging in his heels and pushing you just as far as you will let him push you.

He did not go on the Dr. Phil show to get help. He went because it was just one more way to string Kandi along, tell her what she wants to hear, and keep her playing his game. And it worked, too, didn't it?

You say he is out of the house now. But for how long? He should NEVER be allowed back in unless and until he's been living on his own for at least six months, with NO other women in his life. Anything less is just playing his game of gee-it's-fun-to-have-two-women-to-have-sex-with. As long as you are willing to be part of his harem, that's all that you will be to him.

Kandi -- you tried, but you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You cannot make a loving husband and father out a self-absorbed narcississt and modern-day polygamist.

Stop waiting for him to "decide." He has ALREADY decided, and he shows you that every day. YOU have to be the adult here and take this garbage out of your and your children's lives. Stop waiting for him to take out the trash. He is not ever going to do that. That's why your life stinks right now -- it's full of his garbage.

YOU have to stop telling him what he "should" do.

YOU have to tell him what YOU are willing to live with.

YOU have to say "Ed, you can do whatever you want, but *I* will not live with your garbage in my life." Then YOU do whatever it takes to get his mess out of your house and out of your life, and be amazed at what clean fresh air smells like.

If you are willing to tolerate being part of a modern-day harem, then keep waiting for him to "choose."

If you want to protect your sanity and protect your children and keep three young boys from seeing that yes, women WILL tolerate this sort of arrangement, then do what you have to do -- Plan B for real, and almost certainly Plan D -- to protect yourself and your family.

A year from now, you will look back on the Dr. Phil show tapes and wonder how you could ever have put up with this.

Good luck. Stop letting this cruel and selfish man run your life. Run it yourself instead.
Mulan

Thanks Pep! You are absolutely right! I have watched those tapes over and over again, even writing down on paper some of the things that stuck out like:

"I mean, I love my wife, I love my family. Yes. On the other hand, the other woman is pregnant. I still have feelings for her. I can't deny that. She is in a desperate situation in my view and it just pulls at me that I can't help her in any way,"

"And I'm also kind of withdrawing from that initial emotional intimacy which I had with her and just going back into my shell and just pondering the whole situation."

"I don't view it as all about me. I view it as there's two women that I care about and regardless of how the second relationship came about, it does not change the fact that I care about her and she's pregnant and she also has feelings as well. Now, granted my wife and my children and my entire family, everything I've ever built is there, yes. But that doesn't change that other fact."

remember his BODY language when he said that
one!

Dr. Phil asks Ed: "Do you or do you not want to do the right and best thing to try to get everything back in a healthy way?"

"If that's possible, yes."

Dr. Phil says: "Regardless of what your feelings are for this other woman, you absolutely must acknowledge that there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with emotions," Dr. Phil tells Ed. "You can't just do something because it feels good at the moment. I think it is patently unfair for a man or woman to compare some new, exciting, taboo, date, fantasy love with a relationship they've been in for years where there are kids, bills, a house to run, noses to wipe — that is just such an unfair, ridiculous comparison. You're not going to ever resolve this by saying, 'Well, do I feel better over here playing house with this woman that I don't have any responsibilities and history with?' Do you not think that if you leave here and go there that six, seven months from now she's going to have a screaming baby in one arm, a diaper bag on another arm and runny noses and all the same stuff you've got where you are now?

There's a right way and a wrong way to do this. And the first thing you've got to do if you're going to have any chance is you've got to cut off any contact with this woman unless [Kandi is] involved. If you want to talk to her about that child, then you do it with your wife there.

You cannot continue to work with that woman and save your marriage. Period. You've either got to sell the house and move or work in a different place or you've got to arrange your work schedule such that there is no contact."


"I've always wanted a girl"

"I still have feelings for the OW"

"I've always wanted a girl"

"I still have feelings for the OW"

These are just some of the things that stick out in my mind day after day and I have to keep going over them in my mind to remind myself...just a few minor things, you know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />