For those of you who don't know, my H had an affair with our child caregiver and as a result of the affair she became pregnant. She decided to keep child (single, 19 yr. old, lives at home with parents). The child (a boy) is now 8 months old. H and I made agreement that when he saw OC I would be included and we do it together. He has maintained for 8 months now that he has not seen this child nor talked to her with the exception of her calling last week for money. Guess what - I go pick up film from the developer and the first picture on the roll is a picture of OW (she is in my H's vehicle)! I knew it was recent, because the camera wasn't purchased until July of this year! Now after confrontation (love busting a lot) he said that he had seen the OC 4 times and a total time of 30 minutes. The OW would call and say "I can't believe you don't want to see him, it's not his fault". My H caught in a web of wanting to see him, yet "thinking I wasn't ready to deal with this emotional thing after all I've been through" chose to keep it from me. His explanation of the picture was that he was turning around to take a picture of him and accidentally snapped the picture of her. My question - how can you survive when you make these agreements and then one party doesn't hold their end of the bargain then? What happens? Do you just give up and realize you can't trust them? I'm EXTREMELY EMOTIONAL (like my mother) and I know in the past I wouldn't tell her stuff because she would "go off the deep end"! Therefore, (not to excuse his behavior by any means) but I have been there and done that and I do have a VERY BIG PROBLEM with my reaction to ANYTHING I don't want to hear. Please - is there any chance that I can ever trust him to confide in me? I am really freaking out today (my 1st day back to work after a week of vacation)!<P>------------------<BR>

DD<BR>I had a similar experience with my H lying to me because he didn't want to upset me. of course I found out.<BR>So maybe they need to learn about honesty by trial and error.<BR>This must have been very painful for you!<BR>I think all we can do is keep drumming into their heads that lies always get found out and they hurt much more than the truth. <BR>Let H know that if he had told you and included you, he would have been proving to you and OW that you came first in his life. He would have given you the opportunity to have a choice in your reaction. By lying he didn't give you a chance for any self defence.<BR>I have no idea how to regain trust if they won't help. I think his only shoice now is to make sure he includes you. Maybe the sooner the better?<BR>Are you up to seeing the OC with him? Maybe you could break the ice and tell him that if it is something he wants you want to do it with him soon? Make the first step and get it over with?

Thanks Wasstubborn. I'm sorry for you too - I have done fairly well and I don't think he is "seeing her", but the fact that he hasn't included me hurts so much. I have been adamant that I didn't want to see the child and didn't want him to see him either - until I heal some. Apparently he felt the desire/need to see the other child and the only way past it (in his mind) was to do it and keep it from me. I have told him (and have been telling him for the last couple of months) that when he wanted to see him I'm ready. So now - we have talked AGAIN and he assured me that we would find the time for US to see him. The OW doesn't want me to have anything to do with her child. So that is another predicament. I have ready many of your posts - but at the moment I can't think. Did you and your H ever work out the lying issue? I'm just wondering - how many times do you keep making agreements and then they're broken and then you try again and make an agreement, etc. etc. You know it's like pieces of your heart are just being torn out piece by piece.<P>------------------<BR>

DD<BR>If you are ready to see this child I really think you should take the bull by the horns. Get it done. If the OW doesn't want you to have anything to do with him (I'm going to get nasty here) she should have thought about whether or not you wanted her to have anything to do with YOUR H.<BR>Your H needs to let her know that you are a package deal now.<BR>Don't let her manipulate you. If she wants to make rules then you can make some too!<BR>forgive me I'm a litle fiesty this morning!<P>My H and lies? Well he is a work in progress. Some days I believe he is learning. Some days I wonder how anyone who has lied this long can ever tell the truth. Some days I get huge paranoias. time and patience is all I can count on. Honesty is such a big thing with me. Conflict avoidance is such a big thing with him. Eventually he may learn that if he lies to avoid conflict, he usually ends up with a much bigger conflict than he imagined.<BR>I am learning to have different expectations and to accept less than I want. For Now.<BR>It's all aprt of this lovely ride they built for us isn't it?<BR>

I agree with wasstuborn....The OW has no business making any demands. You & your H are a package deal, whether she likes it or not. She is the one who welcomed herself into your marriage. Don't let the OW manipulate you...

You definately hit the nail on the head. That's my point - I say - it's too bad if you don't want ME around your child. You were keeping my child and sleeping with my H. You know there are some things she will have to pay for. I didn't get a choice in their little escapades and apparently she thinks everything is going to go her way. It makes me furious because my H is like yours - a major conflict avoider. He understands where I'm coming from but "doesn't want to rock the boat." He says "why she would have a fit if I wanted to take him home and she thought you might be doing something with him! I'm like so?<P>I'm sorry for your aches and pain - my stomach is tied into a knot at the moment just thinking "is she calling him, asking to meet her to see "their" child. Her parents have forbidden my H from their home and she doesn't work and lives off the fat of the land - her parents don't want her to work, they want her to stay at home and raise her child! (puke) yeah- I get to go to work everyday while that _ i t c _ get's to run around all day and try to find my H to see him. I guess- you're right - you have to expect less and do more. It just isn't fair. I know I played a part in our relationship not being where it needed to be after the birth of our child, but I didn't have an affair to get my needs met (when I was lonely too). YOu know? I'm just so sick today.<P>------------------<BR>

No Trust and Wasstubborn: I agree with you both 110%! However, my H is the key here. He has to be the one to say "me and my wife this or that or the other!" She calls him when I'm at work and he is self-employed so is out and about all the time. He wants to avoid conflict so he feels it's easier for him to meet her and see the kid than it is for me and him to see him together. He says NOW - (If I won't cause a scene) he'll tell her what the deal is. But he's such a coward. And I always have to bring the subject up - then he thinks I'm a nag, you know?<P>------------------<BR>

DD<BR>I know exactly what you are talking about!!!!<BR>I'm not sure if there is any way to get through to them except slowly.<BR>It isn't fair. Just like you said. We have to try and look beyond this moment.<BR>I did a lot of that at the begining. in fact my H tells me that one of the things that brought him to reality was when I talked about the years down the road and where we could be. Shere did we sant to be? <BR>I will think on this some more today.<BR>Try to relax a little. It won't do any good for you to be sick. Deep breaths. take care of yourself and be a little selfish today!

Wasstubborn: I really think you can be a source of encouragement to me (and perhaps vice versa). If you would like to e-mail me personally please do so at . Thanks again for your advice and I'm trying to breath very very deeply.<p>[This message has been edited by Daycare Disaster (edited September 20, 1999).]