Are you back in the "wanting my WW back at all costs?"

No... no I'm not.
I'm starting to recognize with much more clarity that when I start waivering in that general direction (it's not a conscious thing, but I allow myself to go there), that it's things like loneliness and "discomfort" that I'm wanting to resolve.
Maybe a simpler, more accurate way of saying it is "being desperate to get my life back, at all costs."

But, like I said, I recognize what's going on in my head, so... I'll be ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


IF she is unwilling/unable to change, would it not be "logical" to cut your losses at some point?

Yep.

Hey, wait... what's with the logic, all of a sudden? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


or 2)starts making choices suited to the M woman she is, and she seeks help to understand how to get back to where she needs to be.

I'm running out of confidence... in her... Maybe it wasn't confidence before -- maybe it was just hope.


It requires a LOT of talking, crying, yelling, holding, understanding, compassion ~ and a total willingness of BOTH parties to do whatever it takes to facilitate healing in the M. It truly is not for the weak, it's hard on the weary, and it is impossible for someone who cannot even face their own issues/demons.

I'm seriously frustrated by the fact that NONE of that bothers me, or scares me in any way. IOW, I've been ready, willing and able. My WW, however, appears not ready, not willing... and is most probably not able, anyway...


Why didn't she come over the other day? Most likely fear. She probably still fears rejection from you.

Do you think she understands that we're getting to the point where I will never -- NEVER --- want to see her again?


You keep her too comfortable. You have built her a little soft puffy couch on top of that fence she is sitting on. And you bring her little slices of cake (from your heart!) each time she even LOOKS hungry ~ she doesn't even have to ASK.

It's my nature, I guess....


She is one spoiled girl, tqt.

Ya think so? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


ps. Kind of down today... can you tell? I'm starting to really feel that "disconnection"... starting to think of her as a complete stranger.
Oh man, she made such a terrible mess of things...

And the Reconcil-O-Meter says: 3% and falling

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hey, wait... what's with the logic, all of a sudden? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah, ya caught that one, eh? I must not have disguised it cleverly enough. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Not one thing in your last post surprised me. I know YOU aren't afraid of the work and pain of recovery, but she it. And I know it is in your nature to spoil those you care about.

The kinda SICK thing about A's, that H and I have talked about quite extensively, is that the WS knows the BS sooooo well. They can play on all the weaknesses, doubts, even the "strengths" of the BS ~ all to get what they want at all costs.

I still remember H telling me I was being jealous and controlling when I would raise my doubts about his relationship with FBF/OW. And FBF/OW would be saying the same types of things to me when I would raise my doubts to her. I even remember her saying once when I asked her a direct question, "I'm sure, Spidey, I have MORALS!" And she was very upset. And I felt BAD about it.

Because your WW has used your good nature against you, to some extent. She knows she doesn't HAVE to make a decision right now. She probably has a general comfort level that she could still go either way.

And what I have seen here at MB time and time again, is that most WS's don't really "get it" until the BS has let them go. I don't know why that is. Does it instill panic that clears the "fog" when they sense true detachment from their source of unconditional love? Is it a simple human-nature mind game? Could it go back to the playground and childhood ~ that just when you decide that person isn't worth the effort to hang around with, that same other person decides that you are the ONLY one to hang with?

I don't know. Maybe it is as simple as restoring a "balance" to the relationship. You beginning to feel towards her the way her actions have been towards you? Detached?

I think you should put your house up on the market. You need a change. Since you already shaved your head, there's not much we can change for personal appearance. OH! You could grow a goatee! Or a mustache. OR, shave those if you already have them.

But I think you should sell your house. OR, start working on that bathroom remodel job. I think you need to start shaking up your life, and see what falls out. That's what I did. I began a sexless life, while still M'd, to a man who didn't want to be M'd to me, and actually (against all odds) had a fabulous time.

You are now at a crossroads. You are standing at an intersection (metaphorically!) in which many paths lead out, in all different directions. Let's say there are 5 paths. For you, what would the little wooden signs (the kind that point in the direction of the destination) of these various paths say?

Spidey

I think you should put your house up on the market.

Now, wait a second, Spidey... this gets awful eerie sometimes...

I was JUST getting ready to post (ie. whine, whimper, et al) the following:

Sometime between last evening and this morning -- after not sleeping AT ALL -- I've made The Decision that I do not want to stay in this house. So, on the market it goes, as soon as all the 12,000 details have been taken care of.

I've been looking for another place to buy (yes, even condo/townhouse), but can't find anything... suitable/price-range/somewhere I'd LIKE to live... SO...I'm looking at a couple of lots this afternoon or tomorrow, and have decided to build...........

So, big deal... people sell their houses and move all the time... well, it's clear that this little project will pretty much HAVE to force things (ie. our marriage) to a conclusion -- probably sooner than it would've happened otherwise.

I'm even trying to budget in a (compromised version of) piece of investment property... which I've also been researching... and if I keep my wits (and wallet) about me, within a few months I could be setting up my lawn chair on my new piece of the earth, and gazing out over the Caribbean Sea... with an ice-cold bottle of "Blackbeard Ale" in hand...

My WW kinda blew up 25 years of my life, and for the last probably two years has put my life on complete hold -- and I feel the time is right to start pursuing some dreams of mine. For me. And also for the next person in my life... who hopefully will someday say (just like my WW did not more than a few years ago) "we're so lucky to be able to do this."


Other things are happening, too -- I just haven't written about them. I was a musician in a former lifetime (gave it up in part for my wife, so we'd have more time together), and have started getting back into it... slow going, and kinda frustrating thinking about how much work I have to do to "catch up," but I'm enjoying it. One of the lead singers I used to play with has been way up on the charts in Europe and South America for years now!

Also considering going for my MBA, part-time, and I'm in the process of gathering info...

Rock Climbing course starts in a couple or so weeks. The official title of the course is "Rock Climbing for Unattached Babes" --- I was really surprised to see they offered such a course, but hey, why not give it a shot, huh?


You need a change.

You betcha. And a woman or two...er, I mean... a woman, too.


Since you already shaved your head,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


there's not much we can change for personal appearance. OH! You could grow a goatee! Or a mustache. OR, shave those if you already have them.

Funny... I've had a mustache since I was about 20 years old. My WW never saw me without it.... until, early one morning on our "vacation" on the Outer Banks last September (while she was in the most Massive Fog Bank ever) I decided to shave it. We spent the entire day together, and it wasn't until around 7:00 that evening that she even noticed... a little self-absorbed, perhaps?

I've since grown it back. Not for her, though.


Speaking of "her"... she's on her way back from Fla today. Wonder if she's arrived at a plan...

How fitting that she leaves her Land 'o' Fantasy vacation and comes back to a VERY damp, cold, dreary, rainy day here. She must know -- she HAS to, doesn't she? -- that now that the sleazy sun 'n' fun party is over, she's staring at the big "D" right between the eyes. I don't envy her. But, I don't envy me, either.

At least the poor dogs get to leave the kennel... THAT's a good thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good grief! I have jumped through hoops this morning to finally be able to post on this thread. This is my first post on this new system, BTW.

For some reason, I can't get into General Questions. I could about 30 minutes ago, but when I wanted to post, couldn't. Grrrrr. So luckily I added this thread to My Space yesterday, and I got in through there. Sheesh.

Anyway, how are you doing? What's going on? Our garage sale was moderately successful. The other night I ate late, and had nightmares of the A all night long. I woke up yesterday feeling beat up. So, yesterday was kinda poopy. And you can bet I didn't eat late last night!

Um, what else. I am also up to 3.5 miles on the running. Wow, that is just about it. How pathetically boring my life is. OH! My son got accepted to the Talent Search that he took the SAT and ACT for, so he is going to college for 20 days this summer ~ University of Denver. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />I feel all those emotions about it, plus about 100 more that they don't have emoticons for. I'm happy, scared, freaked out, nervous. Last night before I drifted to sleep, I was picturing his plane going down. Ugh. I had to stop myself, or I would have been up all night. "He's going to have a great time, and he is going to be just fine." That is my mantra about the whole thing. He is only 13!

Anyway, that is the big news here. IF you can, on this new system, post back and give us an update.

Spidey

Yikes! "Intuitive" is not the overwhelming theme of this new software.

Hi Spidey! I missed you! I was about to send out a search party...

So sorry to hear about the nightmares. It stinks that no matter how well things are going, no matter how much healing has taken place... there's still that CRAP inside the BS's head somewhere. Do you tell your H when that happens?

I was just thinking this morning... about the sheer POWER of affairs -- causing NOTHING but destruction and pain, mangling EVERYTHING in their path -- like some sort of Hurricane from Hell.

I continue to be amazed at how many different parts of my life have been flipped upside down... sometimes just little things, perhaps a minor inconvenience I have to put up with, but still reminders of all the senseless destruction that she's caused. She's STILL drifting around out there in La La Land, and it'll be quite some time before I get the "mess" cleaned up that she left behind.

The GOOD news here is that I'm less and less emotionally wrapped up in all of it -- and instead becoming just kind of irritated and ticked off that I have to spend so much time and energy picking up all the pieces...

I'm doing fine. Don't have time right now to write the details (will post more later), but there have been some "developments" of sorts since last Wednesday -- in my head, in my heart, and on the logistical side of things.

And yes, I broke out of my Pseudo-Plan B on Monday night. No, we're not D'd yet (but we're not renewing our vows, either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />).

But I'm ok with where things are... and where they're going.

More later......


ps. Spidey, that's great news about the 3.5 miles! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

pps. And about your son.... W O W !!! That's incredible! I can imagine all the different emotions. Betcha you are SO proud of him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So... now for the scoop....

WW returned from Fla last Wednesday; I didn't hear a peep from her through Monday, which is when I decided to bag Pseudo-Plan B and find out how things were progressing.

We're talking back to a momentary Plan F here, obviously.....

Why? Because I feel like I'm past the point of no return. I'd still be willing to try, I suppose, but I know the only way would be to PULL her back, and I'm WAY beyond the point of having any desire to do that.

So, I called her Monday night.

Some excerpts, paraphrased:

Me: (paraphrased) What's going on?

WW: "not much of a change from last time" (translation: she's done nothing)

WW: something like "trying to figure out where I'm goin' and what I'm doin'" (translation: she's still lost)

WW: "every time I talk to you I get upset"

WW: something like "not sure if I'm ready to be on my own"

I did succumb to the need to bash the OB with some NOT-very-nice-AT-all adjectives: she didn't flinch.


WW: something about (R w/ OM) "sometimes doesn't feel comfortable" and "I question things sometimes"

Me: some commentary about how she should be questioning a lot of things. Told her that "if, a year and a half into it (with OB), you're still questioning... still feeling uncomfortable, then blah blah blah...."

Me: "A year and a half into OUR relationship, I wanted to marry you."

Me: "You sound just as confused as ever."

Me: "Have you thought recently about talking to somebody?"

WW: yes, she has -- again/still. Said she was just looking at MC's business card. (the MC who helped things fall apart last September)

More discussion about The Email that I never got. WW: "You STILL didn't get it??!?"

WW: "Ok, I'll get stuff done tomorrow (regarding divorce) and call you tomorrow night."

Me: "You don't need to call me, just email me and let me know what's going on."
Then I hung up (without saying goodbye, which is NOT like me).


Didn't hear anything from her through yesterday, and decided to call her last night to set up a definite time to call her tonight.
So, we're on for 8:00 tonight. (Any messages you want me to pass along? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)


Here's the deal.... I think she's scared, I think she's confused, I think she doesn't know what to do. Nothing new there. But, since she's dragged this out for so long, I'm pretty sure now that I couldn't take her back, even if she wanted to reconcile... or attempt to...

BUT! NONE of this makes ANY difference anymore... because she will NOT leave her job. And that is what I'm planning to get into tonight. No matter WHAT she's thinking/feeling, she'd have to quit her job which AIN'T gonna happen, so let's quit wasting any more of our lives, and get it over with.

I'm concerned for her, and will tell her that, and strongly urge her to talk with someone.

So, it's just about a done deal. We're closing in on the last chapter of the book. Regardless how she handles things from here -- whether or not she volunteers anything -- maybe a tidbit of openness and honesty?? -- I'm very close to being ready to file myself.

I just want to take a last stab or two at trying to understand who this person is that I spent 25 years with.

On another note, I'm meeting with a Realtor on Monday re: selling the house. Life goes on..........

###

In one of my many oh-so-cheerful, upbeat and inspirational "how to save a screwed-up marriage" books, there's a section that discusses whether or not you SHOULD want to save the relationship. I was reading it last night. It goes on to suggest that there are times when, because one of the partners in the R is "impaired," perhaps the R should NOT be saved.


Here's this author's (he's a Psychiatrist) test of "impairment":


Is she basically honest?

Is she basically secure within herself?

Could she survive without you?

Can she communicate feelings and thoughts through some means -- words? touch? facial expression? body stance?

Does she show evidence of understanding what you feel, what you say?

Does she demonstrate interest in what you feel, what you say?

Does she encourage you in the development of interests that make you feel alive?

Does she say when she disagrees with you?

Does she allow you to disagree with her?

Does she maintain her respect for self and others when under stress?


"A persistent no to any one of these questions indicates that she lacks part of the basic psychological makeup needed to maintain a love-bond."


Let's just say I had to honestly answer "NO" to... quite a few of them...

tqt, I really like those questions from that book you are reading. And scarily, before 8 months of MC, I would have answered NO to many of those questions, as well. I think my H would have, too. We just didn't understand a lot of stuff.

Sounds like you are coming into a better place than you have been. I'm glad you are beginning to make decisions that work for YOU, rather than always putting her first. Because doing that will get you nowhere, me thinks.

Hang in there! Keep posting.

Spidey

Yes, I'm still here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Not sure where "here" is, but that's exactly where I am......

Processing, pondering, puttering.

I did speak with WW the night before last... she must've been anxious in some way to talk to me, as I did NOT call her when I told her I would (wasn't ready), and she ended up calling me twice and leaving a message that she was there, and to call her.

I won't go into the details, because there's really nothing new. She's still very confused. She just seems STUCK. Still justifying things... still not defending OB... still admitting at least thinking about talking with someone.

Admittedly, I wasn't very pleasant with her. I felt bad after the call ended. Perhaps the highlight of the conversation was when I suggested (and this I did in as caring a way as possible -- I was trying to make a point, and I believe it's an important one) that maybe she wasn't able to love ANYone. She IMMEDIATELY replied "I've been thinking about that myself." I let it go at that.

I told her that this was all such a waste of time, and that I've been in denial of some things myself all this time, not the least of which is the fact that to even get to Step 1 of saving our M, she'd have to leave her job, and I knew she wouldn't do that. She replied with some rambling about her looking around for another job (ie. she has been looking(?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />). I prodded just a little, and then it became "well, I'm always keeping my eyes open for something that might come along...."

The subject of Fla came up, and I asked her if she really did not want OB to go, or was she lying to me about that. She said "No, I wasn't lying."

At the very least, I'd bet my wedding ring on the fact that OB has lost a helluva lot of his lustre. Which is great news, I suppose, except that it means WW is hanging around him (etc! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />) for his company, his attention, and probably because she doesn't know how to end the A.

I really should maim the b'stard. Just as a favor to my STBXW, of course.

The conversation ended with the assumption that she was going to get the necessary forms, etc. and get the D-ball rolling.

Haven't heard anything from her.

And me? I'm in a very strange place right now. It doesn't feel at all familiar, and I guess that's because I've never been here before...

I know I still love her, and I know that regardless of whether or not I SHOULD, I would -- given the opportunity -- be open to attempting to rebuild our M.

At the same time, I'm accepting (that should be ACCEPTING, with emphasis) things as they are -- that our M is, for all intents and purposes, over. The only pain I feel now is that of regret, and sadness. That we failed. Even more regretful that we never tried to work things out -- that being the curse of the A, and all its fallout.

I did ask her how she would be able -- for the rest of her life -- to deal with the fact that she did not even try to save our M. She answered the question with silence.

On the other hand, I know I've tried... in the best way I could, under the circumstances (not always The Best Way, but the best way *I* could).

At this point, I'm very tempted to give my STBXW another phone call, and say "It's becoming obvious to me that neither one of us wants a divorce. Why are we wasting all this time?"

That sounds pathetic, but I don't really feel that way at all. I don't feel like I need her, and I don't feel all that much of a WANT, either. It just seems so incredibly stupid to throw away 25 years without even trying......

All for now.... thanks for listening!

Hi Spidey, I just noticed you're online... How are you?!?

Hi. I'm sorry I haven't posted in a while, but this new forum is soooooooo frustrating for me! Most of the time, I cannot even get into GQII. I can get to this thread, because I saved it in my space as a favorite topic. But even when I get in here, by the time I get to the end of the thread to see what your last comment was, it has already logged me out again, and I have to start the #!@&^%*(%%##%$% process all over again! GRRRRRR.

I've seen lots of posts about do this and that to tweek the browser and such, to avoid most of these problems, but . . . I have no patience for all that. I'll ask my H to look at it soon, but he's been very busy at work. So, I haven't dropped off the planet, I am doing well, and I think of you each day. Too bad this new forum can't sense my THOUGHTS and post those! Good grief.

Have you been having problems? One of my friends emailed me yesterday (just got it today ~ my internet was down off and on the past few days) telling me you called me out on GQII. Of course I would have responded on that thread, if I could GET IN GQII!!! How frustrating. Are you getting that from me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

*sigh*

So, what's going on? I liked the list of questions you listed in your last long post. Before 8 months of MC, I don't know what my answers would have been to many of those ~ or my H's answers. I was thinking there would have been a lot of "No's." We finally did the EN questionaire the other night. H didn't want to, but he knew it was important to me. Turns out, he really liked it. He read quite a bit in the book "His Needs, Her Needs," and he liked what Dr. Harley had to say. We talked for about 4 hours about it, and had a lot of great communication. We both understand a lot more than we did. My H now knows my #1 need is conversation. He didn't know that. Now he understands why I take it so personally when I call during work time, and he's "too busy." I understand that will happen from time to time, but I was getting it a LOT. Now he realizes that is as important to me as admiration is to him. Makes a big difference to understand what you can do specifically to brighten your partner's day.

I am going to join a marathon training group. It goes for 27 weeks, and at the end, you can run a marathon, supposedly. There is coaching, massages, seminars, and groups to run with. I'm excited. I'll keep you posted.

Not much else going on here. Hope you are having a FANtastic Thursday!

Spidey

Hi Spidey <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I called you out because I was starting to worry about you!

Nothing all-too-exciting happening, which is why I haven't really been posting. I think the publisher would prefer a few blank pages, rather than weigh the book down with (even more) monotonous, self-serving drivel, right?

Things should pick up shortly, however... I've made some decisions. Details soon.

Thanks for checking in, Spidey. I'm glad you're ok!!

ps. You ARE planning to let me know when you start your cross-country run from Idaho to PA... right? (Congratulations on the marathon training -- the expression "very cool" comes to mind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

Hey there. Yeah, I've had a few concerned emails from others, too. I haven't been doing BAD, just inside of myself quite a bit. I had Greg update me with Mozilla Firefox last night, and so far I can stay logged in, and get around here better. But guess what ~ I STILL cannot get directly into GQII. Isn't that the strangest thing. So, my Plan B is to have H assess the situation again for me later. I tried reading the self-help trouble shoot page, and it made my eyes cross. it is just not my thing!

I am very excited to hear about the developments, when you are ready to give the details. I added on another 2 1/2 minutes to my run this morning. I was sucking wind at the end. I was passing the same 2 older ladies for the third time, and they were looking at me very alarmed. I assured them I was on the "home stretch." They both smiled in relief, and one of them said, "Good!" It made me laugh. After I caught my breath. Before I caught my breath, it just tickled me on the INSIDE.

Take care, and keep us updated!

Spidey

Hello, tqt! Hello? Where are you? All my stuff works, and I am now ready to read what has been going on over there and . . . I keep getting a BIG FAT NOTHING when I come and look on your thread!

Turns out, most of my difficulties here were coming from a networking problem at the house (yes, we have a network in our house) that H got fixed. And now that I have been introduced to Mozilla, I am in love with it. So all is great here. Haven't been logged out in over a day! And I can get into all the forums, bounce all around, even post! Yay!

Anyway, give us an update! We are all very nosey!

Spidey

Ouch! Hey!!


Yikes! A full-blown EA with a piece of software!


Hmmm... should I be honest, or tweak reality a little bit for the book?

Not sure where to start. And for some reason, all of a sudden afraid to appear pathetic.
Probably why I haven't been posting.

Let's try this approach... random thoughts...

Not fooling myself into thinking I have any choice in the matter, but: I know I don't WANT a D, but at the same time, I'm also pretty sure it's the best thing.

Even if some sort of reconciliation effort were to happen, I'm not sure of my ability to deal with the PA part of the A -- it's gone on for too long. Discussed earlier in this thread (Pages 440 and 587, I think), the PA part of it has always been the worst part of this whole deal for me -- I'm just not sure I could recover from that in an emotionally healthy way.

I think she's been gone long enough that she now knows she can survive just fine without me, and that life does go on. Coming back to the M means a whole new set of pain for her, which I'm sure she'd rather avoid. And avoid, she will.
Said another way, she's probably figured out that she can manage just fine, and not have to deal with what she's done - to herself, to her husband, to her marriage. Perfect!

Last week, I felt firmly in Ready-to-File Mode.
So I called her Thurs evening, asked her for some info regarding her 401k, "so that I could take care of the things she should've taken care of a long time ago."
She said she couldn't really talk right then, because her Mother was there for the weekend. I said "I'd like to say Hi to her." So, bash away at me, but I talked to my MIL (I called her by her first name -- I couldn't squeak out the "Mom" which I always called her), and was very respectful and told her exactly why I was calling WW, told her to have a nice visit, and said goodbye.

WW emailed me the info I requested later the next day -- I can't get rid of my sneaking suspicion that her Mother kinda pushed her into giving me what I asked for... not to push the D, but to nudge WW into doing what she agreed to do.

Realtor came last week, and now I have all the information I need to put the house on the market, and I should have no problem selling it.

So... NOW what?

I haven't taken any further steps toward D. It's really just a matter of downloading some forms, filling them out, sending a copy to WW, and hashing out the financial details with her. We could be D'd in 30-90 days (still unclear about the actual length of time).

Up above I said: "I know I don't WANT a D, but at the same time, I'm also pretty sure it's the best thing."

That's where I am. In my own little self-induced limbo. I still love my wife -- I guess that's part of the problem.
I'm also unable to see my future without her, except for little glimpses here and there. Is that the way it works... is that "normal?"

I did have a rough weekend... I guess with Daylight Savings Time, and the warm, sunny weather, all of a sudden Spring is definitely here...
For some reason, I never thought about how when Spring/Summer rolled around, I'd be staring at a whole 'nother set of triggers, and sources of pain and sadness, and fear. My first Spring "alone"... for... almost 30 years(?!?)

Anyway... I had to get myself outside... I hate being inside when it's nice out, but I was sorta nervous about what I needed to accomplish -- cleaning out all of WW's flower beds and getting started on the yard work, etc. It was very difficult. I let myself sink down (emotionally) to the point of no return -- which I'm very good at avoiding by now, but sometimes I can't stop it in time. I had to stop working, and get the hell out of there...... didn't really have anywhere in particular I needed to go, but I just couldn't stand it anymore.

I see all the neighbors out... working, playing, whatever... and of course they can see me... and I feel like I'm wearing this big huge heavy sign that says "My Wife Left Me."

So... for now, like I said... that's where I am. Trying to move forward (which I definitely am, but I guess it's a very slow, 2-steps-forward, 1-step-back deal). Moving forward, and still "wishing" that I could turn the clock back.... WAY back.

I do miss my wife, though. Speaking of "wishing"... I also wish, perhaps most of all, I knew if my wife still exists, or if that person is gone forever -- and in her shoes is now this new WW-person. Or did she never really exist at all, except in my head?


Whoa! This is MUCH too depressing... need to add a couple pick-me-uppers to the mix.

Saw My Girlfriend at the gym (where's the :twitterpated: smiley face thingy?!?) over the weekend.... made her sorta giggle a couple times -- do I get points for that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Had my first rock climbing class on Sat morning -- and I was wrong! At least the INSTRUCTOR is older than me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Exchanged a few emails with.... believe it or not... and she started it, not me.... my "highschool sweetheart." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> What's the big deal? It's only been 27 years since we drifted apart...

Think I'll save that for another post.... (or another forum? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />)

I guess you will know if she is still exists, if she dumps OM and wants to rebuild with you. If not, then she has probably shifted into the WW-person. It is so sad. I have seen one of my aquaintances here turn from the wonderful mother/wife/friend I met over a year ago, to a WW-person who is D'ing her BH and breaking her family (the hearts of the two cutest little tikes I have ever seen!). She vaccilated, she came home and left again (twice!), and has finally filed. Once she did file, after talking about doing it for 6 months, she sat on the process for another 6 months!

But she just can't seem to get it together. She believes that she is just a weak person that is too attracted to money and power ~ the OM has lots, and the BH has little of either. She thinks it is a character flaw within herself, and that she isn't capable of doing better/more (morally or ethically).

Of course the rest of the world can see that she can do anything she puts her mind to. But she chooses to stay in the justification/rationalization of what she thinks is the easy way out. Little does she know, like your WW, that she will regret for years and years her actions, what "could have/might have" been. Instead of doing the hard work now, they both will carry around hug bags of guilt and remorse and CRAP.

OK, now until you file, stop emailing the high-school sweetheart! I WILL be on the East coast in less than 3 weeks, and I WILL drive down to PA and kick your a$$ ~ do not doubt it. OK? Sheesh. Don't you listen to anything I say? Do not play with the fire that seems so innocent and small right now ~ that is how your WW's A started ~ remember that. Enough pain has been created; do not create more.

So . . . you aren't sure what the next step is, or you are just taking them very slowly ~ as you are ready for them? We are all here for you. Keep posting. I think you are in a "normal" spot. It sucks there are "normal" spots in infidelity.

This morning, the little girl that hangs with me before school, and myself, were watching the old Family Fued ~! with Richard Dawson, the kisser! He kisses them all, on the lips, several times, and sometimes they do it for long times! We are shocked. Even old Mormon moms kiss him!!! Shocking. Anyway, this morning's question was something like, "100 people surveyed, the top blah blah blah . . . What is the biggest reason, besides money, that marriages in the US end?" Please realize that this little girl and I sit with our hands on our knees (our buzzers), and we shout out our first guess and see if we would win. So, this morning, I slap my knee really hard and shout out, "Infidelity!" The little girl just kinda looked at me (she is in 3rd grade). I know her parents D'd because her father had an A with his secretary, and now they are M'd. She lives down the street with her mom and older sister. I don't know how much she knows. Anyway, guess what? I had the number 1 answer. In fact, there was a M'd couple on the other team, the H is the one that guessed Infidelity. Richard started asking them questions, and come to find out, they were D'd for a year, and got remarried. I bet I know why!

It is such a small world. Even if you do D, please realize it isn't 100% for sure the end of your relationship with your WW. Things change, people change, and she truly might (maybe not this year, or next) become finally uncomfortable enough in her own stink to become motivated to get out of it. But it is for her to do, not you. If she does, you will know she is no longer the WW-person.

And you didn't make up your real W. She was there. She was real. Do not doubt your life, your reality, your senses. I know how easy it is to do, but as time goes on, it will all seem a lot clearer, a lot different to you. I really believe that, because it sure has for me.

Spidey

Spidey, when you're done kicking my a$$, will ya help me clean the garage? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Point well taken... BUT! There's absolutely no comparison between "HSS" and WW ... meaning... HSS is fully "in control" of her boundaries, emotions, etc. As am I, of course! Nothing to worry about, I assure you.




Guess I'm kinda poking around in the dark, trying to feel my way to the next step.

I know I'm "progressing." In other words, I can feel my attachment to, desire for, and love for my WW slipping away a little more each day.

Wow... after how strongly I've felt about her for 25 years, and now I have to describe this forced mercy-killing of all my feelings for her as "progress"...


After running some errands at lunch time, I was coming back to the office, and had this very distinct feeling: the further away from her I get, the better off I am. I'm starting to feel good about things -- starting to feel single, almost.

Then, lo and behold... I came back to a voicemail message from WW. First one in a long time.

She said:
"Hi, it's me. I just wanted to know if there's anything else you need from me to finish the taxes. Email me, or call me later."

Obviously, if there was something I needed from her, I'd ask for it.

Methinks taxes are not the first thing on her mind....

Edited Wed. AM to add:
Spidey, I'd like to email you, to get your opinion on something... would that be ok?

tqt...isn't amazing how being totally away from ANY type of contact with WS helps you take steps away from the hurt and then one little speck of communication gets you right back to that awful place again. When I don't hear or see WH I actually think I am getting over him and ready to move on. Then BAM! (thanks Emeril) I am pulling myself out of the tar pit again. "Oh Honey I love you please come home and work this out". I did tell WH at last counseling session that I needed him to be Gone ...out of my life...never to see him again. That is what I needed to get through this. Has he complied? No....calls about little things and is all sweet about it.....all the while still "running" into OW.

I am starting to believe he likes what he is doing to me. I know I am a big girl and should do an official Plan B. I am just chicken....

Sounds like you are doing OK...one day at a time and just think maybe by fall we will be out of this crap. I am counting on it. I don't even think I was WH back...I just want my life back and the pain gone....with or without him.

I too am toying with the idea of having a "friend", not as a revenge thing, but something healthy to make me truely believe that there is life after spouse. Not too serious about persuing it becuase I understand the ramifications it couls have on reconciliation, but I am beginning to believe we are way beyond that.

Take care...and by the what is TQT?

Hello to my friend Homer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Far be it from me to jump on the Plan B Wagon and tell you this (since I'm a Plan B Flunkie of the Highest Order), but what you're describing is what Plan B is for... and I know you know that!

But you are absolutely right... the more time away from her, the more I start to feel like myself again. Hey, I even get to the point where I figure out that I'm not that bad of a guy after all! Going through this stuff for so long takes its toll on the old self-esteem.....




Or, maybe he's so overwhelmingly self-absorbed that he doesn't quite GET what he's doing to you...




You can't keep this up forever, Homer! But, I get the impression HE could... so it'll be up to you to change the dynamics of the whole thing, won't it?

Sorry for the cliche, but you said it yourself! YOU DESERVE BETTER!

Ya know, I just don't get it... WHAT is your H doing?!? What is he trying to accomplish??
I also get the impression that he has NO CLUE that he could LOSE YOU. Is it time to drill that into his thick skull?




Yes. Don't know about you, but I've completely forgotten what it feels like to NOT be wading through this crap.



YOU take care, too... keep your head up. Think seriously about Plan B, maybe??

And what is TQT, you ask? I can't tell you EVERYthing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey tqt and Homer! I was just thinking about you the other day, Homer. I'm glad to see you here. I'm sorry your H is still acting like the WS-person. You are right, currently your M is not able to recover. BUT, that is how it is today. The reason Plan B is around is to end your WS's cake-eating/fence-sitting ~ one way or the other. Unfortunately, once they get to the point of acting that way, it is hard to pull them out ~ just like an addict from their drug.

And it also affords you the protection and "normalcy" that you need more than anything right now. It is so funny about Plan B ~ it sounds so scary until you get into it ~ then, for me at least (when I was ready to do it, even though I ended up only doing it for a few days before our next MC appointment with our new MC), it felt powerful. I finally felt I was in control of my feelings, my day, myself.

You wrote it yourself, Homer. When you have no contact you feel good, better. Then, he contacts for no other reason than to make sure you still care (that is what they do, the WS ~ they panic and think maybe you have had enough and they might have to do some actual WORK, so they contact to be reassured of your unending love and devotion for them ~ right out of the WS-handbook), and you tailspin to your own square one again. Why continue to put yourself through that? Your words, not mine. That is how you described the sitch.

You can control you, Homer. Make yourself proud. And no "friend." I'll come kick your a$$, too, believe it.

tqt, no, I will not help you clean your garage ~ that is "man's" work. However, I will vacuum your house that only gets vacuumed bi-annually, I will paint so that your house will sell faster and for more, and I will gladly supervise any home improvements (you know, "Move that over here, and move this over there. More to the right, no, down a little. OK, it's a little crooked, but . . . are you sure you want to put that THERE?" And of course I will keep you supplied in food and beer for insurance to the completion of the tasks. Geez, how could my H have ever wanted to leave ME? And all of THIS? HM!

So, tqt, did you call your WW back? Or are you going to make her sweat it out? Nah, didn't think so. You are not the make-a-woman-sweat-it-out-kind of person.

I know what tqt stands for. It stands for Two Quarter Toast. Or, Tangible Quality Territory. Titanium Quantifiable Tunefork. Terrier Quadratic Thunderbird. Titanic Quadrilateral Thimble (or is it Thumbnail?).

I know I am getting close . . .

Spidey

YIKES!!! Keep goin' Spidey! This is gonna be GREAT for the book! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />





Huh? Wha?!? I did! I did! I DID go to heaven!!

WAIT a second... NOW I know who you are... I saw you in a MOVIE once!




heh heh heh.... excuse me?




Nope... didn't need to... she just called again. And gee, I ALMOST made it to the phone in time...

She left a message: "Hi it's me. Just wondering if you got my message at work that I left, about the ummm... ... ... ... the taxes. (seems she almost forgot what she called for!) Give me a call when you get a second and we can talk about it. Thanks, bye."



Sheeesh!!! I canNOT believe you guessed Titanium Quantifiable Tunefork. Just WHAT are the odds?!?


ps. SS, you have mail...