Oh yeah, your question. It took me a while to calm down about the hat thing.

Um, send her an email, don't call her. Then, if she can't answer your questions in an email, let her call YOU.

There you go! "Simple is as simple does." Or is that only "Stupid is as stupid does?" I don't mean the stupid one, just the simple one.

Spidey

Well, Spidey, we're getting down to the wire here, so here's the scoop...

The BAD news is that now they're telling me my weather domain only goes down to the PA/MD line, and anything south of that is none of my business.

FINE! That's why the weather always SUCKS down there, obviously!

The GOOD news is that, after checking the latest forecast, you'll be able to take your hat off by Sunday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I know as you're running around getting ready for your trip, you've probably done 2 marathons already...

just wanted to say a couple things before you go.


Item One:
-----------

TWO people in the last two days have told me the same thing:

They bet my STBXW is surprised that I'm making the move to end our M "so soon" -- ie. she probably thought I'd wait around a lot longer.
And, that once she sees that it's really going to happen, she will be devastated.

I reminded them that:
She checked out on our M (starting with the EA) a full 18+ months ago.
She moved out 7 months ago, and has not taken one single step towards reconciliation or anything resembling it.
She has not taken one single step towards getting help figuring out whatever it is she needs to figure out.
She's been physically involved with OB -- to some degree, at least -- over a period of 14+ months.

So... I was doing really well... then I hear this stuff TWICE in the last two days, and I start to dwell on it a little too long... and before you know it...

You know the story. I started sinking a little... a little, but still TOO much.
I started feeling guilty. I started the "I should've... I could've..." stuff.

Continuing my proud (I'm being sarcastic, trust me) tradition of not following MB methodology, I'm going to force myself to call my STBXW this evening, and creatively, caringly, straightforwardly telling her that if she has any interest at all in discussing an attempt to reconcile, she has to tell me -- uh... tell me NOW.

She will say "no," of course. Or more likely, say something not-quite-no but not-quite-yes. Same old same old....

Which is OK. I've come to the point of accepting not only the end of our M, but also the way she's NOT handled ANYTHING appropriately... "fairly"... compassionately...

But, she will always know that up until the very last second, it was HER choice.

And just as important, *I* will know that SHE knows that she could've saved our M. One of my fears is that I'll spend the rest of my life, to some degree, always wondering if she ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTOOD that I wanted to save our M, that I was willing to do the work, that I was willing to do whatever it took, that I left the door open for her --- up until the very last second.

Enough of that. Wish me luck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



Item Two:
-----------

Spidey...have a great, wonderful, fun, safe, exciting, relaxing, enjoyable trip !!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And I hope you don't mind, but I got you a little going-away present. All you have to do is click here:

http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1868598&cp=1452344.1452610

You are BAAAAD! Yes, I have run several marathons today, it feels like. I did treat myself, though ~ NO, not to an ugly knit hat, thank you very much (my H tries to get me to wear those on winter camping trips, but they make my HEAD ITCH! So I wear one of those elastic flannel thingies that goes around my ears ~ kind-of a "hip" ear muff thingie) ~ but to a pedicure. It was wonderful. While my boys got their hair cut, I sat and had a woman rub my feet and legs, while I was sitting in a chair that was massaging me, and she painted my toenails for the wedding, so I didn't have to. My old polish was not looking too good for a wedding.

We are packed, I am pooped, and we have to get up at 3:30 am. Ugh.

OK, I know 2 people in 2 days have said the same thing to you, and you can take that as a "sign." However, you can also look at all the other stuff you wrote about, for the last 18+ months of checking out on the M, 14+ months of physical contact with OB, 7 months of her leaving and not giving ONE INCLINATION that she is willing to come home . . . yeah, you can take all of that as a "sign" as well.

I know people mean well. But I have been with you for a while now, and I think your WW is NOT at a place where she can come home to you. She is gone, even to herself. She didn't just check out on you and the M, tqt, you know she did something far worse ~ she checked out on herself. And just knowing you this short period of time, I KNOW you would do ANYTHING to help her if she let you. And honestly, if I know that for 100% sure-positive, after 25 years with you ~ she HAS to know that as well. It is your nature. She knows that. And, just in case she forgot because of her wayward-ness, you have told her several times already.

And if you want to tell her again, do it. But do not, DO NOT (I am yelling that to show my emphasis) doubt yourself in the future that you didn't communicate that well enough to her. She has nobody to blame but herself if she walks away from your M filled with regret. You are very giving, kindhearted, forgiving, and I think you genuinely enjoy seeing/helping/encouraging people to succeed at whatever is important to them. She knows you will probably be her #1 fan for life. But this is her choice. You cannot take on responsibility for that.

So, scoot those silly thoughts out of your head, so you can concentrate more on fixing my weather. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll try and log on during my trip, because I am addicted. But if you don't hear from me, I will be back the first Saturday in May, late. Don't fall off any rocks while I'm gone! Take care.

Spidey

What a coincidence, Spidey! That's exactly what I was planning to do while you're away! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

While my friend, advisor and coach is galavanting around Maryland, I've let my story fall behind a little.

Called STBXW last Thurs night, to find out how much progress she's made on the D process.
She hadn't done anything. No surprise there.

Some highlights of our conversation:

Me: DO you want a divorce?
WW: Think it's pretty much what we need to be doing.

WW: something about me being controlling
Me: Controlling in what way? You mean the things you brought up in MC?

(Those things were:
1) I convinced her to put only one coat of wax on the kitchen floor a month earlier
2) I was controlling about the timing of when we refinanced the mortgage, a year earlier)

WW: (Silence)

Me: Was there anything else I was controlling about?
WW: (Silence) No, I guess not

WW: You did a lot of good things (meaning over the course of our M). I just didn't recognize them as being good things.

Discussion of trying to save our M, which, never happened... WW admits that.

WW: How do you do that (try to save M) when there's somebody else involved? (good question!) I did not try for the reason I said (ie. somebody else/OM/the affair).

WW: We didn't go out very much... no, I guess we did. (ok!)

WW: You had to work out every day, so we couldn't do anything after work a lot of times. (took her 18 months to come up with that one. The truth is, my workouts back then lasted 30 minutes, and she also worked out either right before me, right after me, or WITH me)

Me: Well I wish you would've said something if my workouts were an issue for you/us.

Discussion... about what exactly, I don't remember...leading to WW saying:

WW: I realize I just don't open up, period.

a minute later...

WW: I don't know who I want to be... someday I'll figure it out...

------

And that was pretty much it.

She went away for the weekend -- I assume with OM. And I stayed home and started working on a Separation Agreement, which she had agreed to start a couple thousand days ago...

Here's the latest and greatest -- an email exchange with STBXW this morning:

Me: In our last conversation, I asked you if you wanted a divorce. You said something like "it's pretty much what we need to be doing." That didn't answer my question, though.

WW: The answer is yes. That's what I need to do. For me for you. I PROMISE to work on the details before the end of this week.

Me: That's wrong on both counts. (save the 2x4's, please)
What you've needed to do for you was talk to someone.
What you've needed to do for both of us was to try.

WW: Can we meet to talk sometime this week? I'd prefer at the house. I can bring (the dogs) if you would like me to or not. (note: she hasn't been at the house for a couple months, maybe 3?)

Me: What is it you want to talk about?

WW: The last 18 months up to today. I think it will help both of us and I owe you a face to face explanation of why and what I have done.
Also I just want to talk with you face to face..not on the phone or email.


I haven't responded to her yet...

I feel myself getting sucked back in... BIG time.
I can't think of any reason to see her "face to face." If she has an "explanation" then the phone will work fine... right? What could she possibly explain at this point, anyway(?)

While my friend, advisor and coach is away... if anyone has any thoughts/advice for me, I'd sure appreciate it!

tqt, I am interested to know what you replied to her. I hope she didn't come over. I think you are right on that ~ you are allowing yourself to get sucked back into her chaos.

I am technically in Virginia now . . . I will check back soon. Take care of yourself. See what happens when I leave??? Good grief. Where the HECK are my emoticons here in Virginia? They seem to have stayed in Idaho, where it is warmer, and not so many people. I'll give the old-fashioned :-)

Spidey

Hi Spidey, I was JUST thinking about you...

Yep, there ARE a lot of people in this general neck of the woods, aren't there?!?
Soooo sorry about the cold weather -- at least the rain is gone for the duration of your trip, or so it appears.

Hope you're having a great time!
There's no place like home, though, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Here's how I replied to STBXW:

"If there's something you want to explain, by phone would be better. After 8:00, please."

She wrote back: "FINE"



Came into work this morning to find a real NASTY voicemail from her that she left on HER way to work. Unfortunately, "snotty" is the best word I can think of... or maybe just "malignant sarcasm."

It seems that she tried to call me last night, and from her message it was obvious she was VERY perturbed that I was on the phone most of the evening. Then, she went on to accuse me of cancelling her car insurance as of 5/14...
She ended her message by saying "Nice talking to you last night!" (sarcasm, etc...)


So, I sent her an email:

About your phone message...
If there's something I did to deserve that nastiness, why not tell me what it is?

(and then I explained that I was doing her a favor by filling out the insurance
info on her vehicle registration renewal, which I sent to her last week)

If you think that I would somehow cancel your car insurance in advance, and
do it without telling you --- well, maybe you should take a step back and
think about it some more......



Her response:

Sorry ...just in a hate everyone mood.... I'll try to get my stuff together and
communicate on a nicer level.

Have a pleasant day.

----------------------------

She wasn't always like this... or I would've been gone a long time ago. Or rather, I never would've married her.

Just a hunch, but I don't think her new "man" is doing such a bang-up job of 'making her happy.'

Hmmmm....

is this around the time when she says to herself... "Ooops" ?

Talked to STBXW a while ago. She didn't answer her cell phone, but then called me back 45 seconds later. As it turns out, she's out of town, at her Mother's for the weekend.

(The night before last I tried to reach her the same way, and she didn't answer, and didn't call back. She was with OM.)

I asked her why she called me back tonight, but not when I called 2 days ago... and said "because you were with OM..."

She said "yeah."

I asked her what was going on with the Separation Agreement, etc...

Bullsh!t response... (she's done nothing)

Then I asked her what she was doing, IOW what's going on, why hasn't she called me to make progress on things, etc.

Here's that part of the conversation:

Me: "I don't understand... why haven't you done anything... blah blah... What have you been doing?"

STBXW: "Me? Oh... living in my new townhouse, taking care of the dogs, going to work, pretending I didn't have a life before all this happened..."

Didya catch that last part? WTF?!?!?!

So there ya go...

I'm beginning to think life on this planet is WAY too weird for me....

WHY oh WHY is your WW so very strange??? Is she drinking the "funny" water over there, or something?

Honestly, I think that you finally pulling away from her, finally . . . just letting her on her own, with your expectation of D out there and consistent, is the best thing you have done ~ for both of you. Perhaps the sky is falling around her ears. But you know what???

SHE is the one with the work to do to make it right again. SHE is the one who MUST come to you with a plan.

Let all her talk just go right through you. No, we don't know what the HE!! her words mean. For all we know, they mean nothing, or something, or everything. We can't know. Stay your course, tqt. After your hard work, introspection, thought, and love, you HAVE a clear path now. You have earned that path, you have put much hard thought and LOVE into it.

And again, she is just throwing her chaos around, not caring who catches what part of it. She has no protection for you, no thought for you. You have told her what you want and need countless times ~ either reconstruction of the M, or for her to release you. What has she done with that information, with the knowledge that she is literally holding another's life hostage by their own words and honor (ie, marriage vows and love)??? NOTHING!

You are lucky to be away from her during this most selfish and self-centered time of her life, IMO. Let her stay away from you. Just talk right over/through her fogese, and continue on your path. She knows what she must do to come home. Reiterate it in an email to her if you think she could possibly be unclear about it after all this time ~ WW, if you want to work on, or explore what was before your A, you must have NC with OB and move back home and go to MC with me. There is no room for all 3 of us in our M.

Short of that, you should realize that all other things she does and says is for her benefit alone. You need to seriously be asking yourself ~ what has she done for me lately?

Caused a lot of pain, shown no remorse, made a lot of excuses, and continues to sit like a bump on a log when it comes to doing the ONE HONORABLE thing she can do for you.

Who does she think she is, the Queen of Sheeba? Who died and made her Goddess of the Universe? Seriously, why does she think she can walk all over your heart and soul with impunity?

All of the dialogue she has given you lately just reinforces (to me) what your course of action should be ~ continue on with what you are doing. I know it is painful, but she has left you no other option. She is a poison sucking all the life from you right now. Nowhere in your vows, or in the Bible, does it require you to be in this state of non-M. It is insulting, not just to you, but to the very foundation of what a M is supposed to be!

Ugh. Perhaps I'll come back later and reread this post, and soften my verbage. I don't know.

It reminds me of what the OW did to my H when he was wayward. She told him in no uncertain terms that "what they did was wrong, and should never have happened," that she felt badly for everything. THEN, when my H would start saying nice things about me to her, she would say stuff like, "Sounds like you want to go back to her" (in a mean and snippy way, leaving no room for mistaking her tone), and also indicating that "once the D is final," perhaps they could be together again.

It was all a form of control. She kept him far enough away that she felt "safe" from me (because I'm such a danger!), but close enough to her to keep him away from me, always sending him "mixed signals." Kept him confused for 3 months! Until he finally confronted her, and broke it off for good when he came home to me.

Even when he wrote his NC email to her, she replied! She said she understood he needed NC with her, then at the end of her 2 page reply, said, "Make sure you let me know how you do hunting this year!"

WTH? I got so mad at that. I said, "She says she understands NC, then asks you to tell her about your hunting???" And my H said, "Who cares what she says? We can't control her, only us. And WE aren't going to communicate with her anymore. That is all we can do."

Yeah, I knew we were on a good path to recovery when he said that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yay! I found my emoticons again. I think I "Quick Replied" in Virginia, and they aren't there for that.

Anyway, the weather wasn't too bad. It was a bit windy, but my hair was a real trooper! I had my first up-do for the wedding (all hair piled high on top of the head, with many bobby-pins and hairspray). I never looked so good! It was fun. Everyone said I looked like a princess. Luckily, the bride looked like an AMAZING queen, so I didn't detract from the wedding ~ but I was a very cute accessory! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ANYway, I have so much work to do today, I better go get to it. I got a lot done this morning already, while all the boys are still sleeping (even the tall old one). I sure do love the time alone I get in the morning before they all get up and start talking. I missed that on my trip.

Take care.

Spidey

Welcome Home, Spidey!

Maybe because you ARE one? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Ya know, we in the eastern part of the country have this day we call "Mother's Day."
It's the one (1) day of the year when women-with-children (Mothers) are forbidden to say stuff like "I have so much work to do today, I better go get to it."

Pretty cool concept, donchathink?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


You'd be surprised how much I can relate to that!


Ummm... is this a test?

I don't know. I'm so confused... I really am. And I'm back to feeling SO very sorry for her... and worried about her.

Can there be a happy ending to this? I've been trying to come up with one...

More tomorrow, after some sleep!

There's a lot going on in my head... and I'm trying to organize my thoughts before posting.

Spidey, your words don't go unheeded... quite the opposite.
Just wanted to get that out there (here).

You are so RIGHT! I did take full advantage of my Mother's Day privledges yesterday, after I got the few "necessities" done (ie, paying bills, updating our online banking, posting here at MB, etc.). Shortly after I signed off yesterday, I ran out of gas ~ it corresponded to the first kid getting up ~ coincidence??? Dunno.

I layed around all day and read my good book I got at the Baltimore Airport. Until I got hungry, then I showered, put on my pajamas, and had the boys take me out for dinner. Then we came home, I plopped back down again, and read more of my book. It was wonderful.

Today I did my one load of laundry that I had detergent for, did my cooking job for my vegetarian family, then went to the store for MY family and bought lots of cereal and dairy products and fresh produce.

Then we watched DS13 do almost 3 hours of tennis tournament, and now we are skipping Scouts (<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) in order to have a relaxing dinner and we got a movie. I plan on being asleep by the time the kids go to bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



I know, it is your nature. There is a fine line between feeling those feelings, though, and trying to "take care" of her. She has made her bed, and she needs to stay put in it until she CHOOSES to get out. I know you keep thinking she just needs a hand-up from you to get out of there, but I think that situation is deceiving. Does that make sense?

It is a classic WS move to attempt to keep all their options open. Do I think she does this consciously? No, it is just the nature of the WS-beast. Her reaction to you moving forward is actually "good," if you ask me. I think you should do MORE moving forward, and see where these new feelings she is having take her.

Please don't stop what you are doing. Over and over here I have seen WS's not want to come home, until the BS is ready to move on.

Hang in there. So, what's going on with your house-selling/moving/boat-buying/property-buying? Haven't heard much about that lately.

Spidey

Umm, Spidey, I gotta ask you something. Don't answer if you don't want to.

Is going out to dinner in your pajamas an Idaho thing?

You didn't do that in Baltimore, did you?

Spidey??!?

Long, rambling, disjointed post follows...

First, the easy stuff!

All still in the works, but may come to a screeching halt before taking any definitive action.
Why? Because I need to be, ummm... "legally detached" from my STBXW first.


To this:
And this:

I'll say THIS:
There is, and has been all along, a pervasive WEAKNESS of some kind in my W. I can't figure out what it is, where it came from... it seems to run in her family -- some twisted combination of

- the inability to express emotions
- the unwillingness (inability?) to deal with reality
- pride, perfectionism, and absence of humility

My point is, whatever this weakness is... there's no way she's going to get herself of out the bed she made.
There's no way she's going to tell OB that she wants to end their R.
There's no way she's going to admit to anyone that she made a huge mistake.

No way!



Unfortunately, it looks as if our M will come to an end -- and I won't know anything more than I did seven months ago.
Remember just a few days ago when she just HAD to see me "face to face" and "explain" everything? I told her I'd prefer a phone conversation.
Well... she seems to have lost any interest in explaining.

All of this fence-sitting and stalling -- seven months of it -- and then when I call her to slowly steer things to a conclusion (because I've been given no other choice), she acts like it's No Big Deal. IOW, she's been paralyzed into NO action, but when I'm proactive about it, she doesn't resist. And I get no remorse. I get nothing, really, other than occasional off-the-wall comments like "I'm pretending like I didn't have a life before."

I called her last night, and emailed her a proposed settlement arrangement. We discussed it, and it went smoothly, for the most part. No emotion from her -- all business.

I guess I've been carrying 95% (+/- 5%) of the emotional load in our M since the beginning, and this is no different. Now that I've come to realize that, I feel like a fool.

She did say "we'll have to get together and go over stuff..." That comment, along with the "face to face," almost makes me think she wants to see me for some reason. As we head to D, I KNOW that given the choice, I'd choose to never see her again, and will probably make a concerted effort not to... how sad...




Just the other day she said "I don't know who I want to be..." Well, we all get lost sometimes, don't we... but that's a huge statement for her -- just saying that -- exposing SOMEthing that's going on in her head, showing some vulnerability... for her, that's pretty big stuff.
But I'm certain there's nobody else to whom she can say things like that. Which is one reason I'm worried about her... she threw away the one person she NOW knows was there for her all along.

My almost total lack of anger has bothered me, and confused me. But I think I've figured it out, in part... simply because it's hard to all at once feel sorry for someone and be angry with them. And I do feel deeply sorry for her. I think she's in pain, and a lot of turmoil, and I think she's afraid....of course, who caught up in this nightmare we call "infidelity" is not all of those things?

But she's too weak to speak up... to raise the S.O.S. flag... and there's nothing I can do about it.
She got herself into a hole a long time ago, and kept digging. So much time, so many chances to take even just one little baby step in the right direction... to utter just a few simple words which could've started us towards recovery.

But instead, I think about how she took The Most Horrific Thing (PA and the aftermath), and somehow found a way to make it worse... and worse...



Spidey, I'm glad you didn't soften your verbage. Those were powerful words, and exactly what I need to hear. (which is why you wrote them, of course!) The last 15++ months HAVE sucked a lot of the life from me. And I know I need to save what's left -- for me, and for the next person in my life.

I'll close this messy little post with someone else's thoughts on the matter:

Ahem, it is a "Mother's Day-just-got-back-from-a-trip-and-very-tired-and-not-feeling-so-good-thing. Let's see . . . nope, I didn't eat in my pajamas in Baltimore. However, I have no doubt that if I would have wanted to eat in them in Virginia, my wacky friends their would have changed into theirs and joined me. It is so wonderful to have friends like that. I was marveling at my wonderful friends as my H and I were heading to the airport last Saturday. How did I get so lucky??? To go and pick up right where we left off, to feel so special and wanted and loved. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!

Did I tell you I met Kloe and (last time I accidentally called her by her old name of SadMarylandLady) New&ImprovedMarylandLady? Or, is her name HopefulMarylandLady? I haven't seen her post in forever. Anyway, we met in Maryland and had a very nice, 2.5 hour dinner. I took H, as he was my driver, and they enjoyed asking him questions, and hearing his POV. Good thing, since there was no way I could drive and look at a map in a totally unfamiliar area of Maryland, in rush hour traffic. We are all in different stages. H and I are in very firm and stable recovery, over 1 year. Kloe and her H have been in Recovery (well, he's been home) for about 4 months, but they are just starting MC and getting into/through all the "issues." And SML is trying to be in Plan B. Her and her H are soooo much like me and my H used to be. Hopefully, she got a better understanding of the dynamics she is in, and what she can do to help herself.

And they both brought their babies ~ they were soooo cute. Both girls, almost the same age (one came early, one late). I'm pretty sure we were the best looking girls in the Macaroni Grill that night ~ my H was very lucky to be there with us! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Is that quote at the bottom of your last post from, say, your mother? She seems like a wonderful lady. And she is right on. Or could be your Dad. Either way, you are lucky to have such parents.

I don't have any advice to give. Sounds like you are doing great on your own. I support you no matter what ~ other than dating before you are properly D'd. And, as our MC advised our friend here whose WW left him for her old highschool sweetheart in another state, you should wait about 6 months for your head to clear, and heart to begin healing.

My H and I bought him a t-shirt that says "WANTED [in bright red letters] Meaningful One-Night Relationship"

He's not that kind of guy, but we like encouraging him to get in the dating game. In a month or so, he is thinking about joining an on-line singles thing. Not really dating, just getting to know to decide if you want to date. I didn't think much of them, but my BIL (the one who just got married) met his girl that way, and they are GREAT together.

Well, I gotta sign off. My Niquil is kicking in (finally). I could only do one job today, my head hurt so bad. I think it is the barometer change. I felt crappy a couple days in Virginia, too. The weather is so different, the whole climate. We are high desert over here, in our 12th year of drought, and you people don't even have to water your lawns! Well, hardly.

Chat at you later.

Spidey

NOW I feel terrible... teasing you when you weren't feeling well... I'm sorry, Spidey!

Hope you're feeling better today!


And your friends were undoubtedly saying the same thing about you!


I can only surmise that it's true, but just in case, let's ask your H for the real scoop <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Yes... that quote is indeed from my mother. You asked me that before about another quote, and I don't think I answered your question.

She IS a wonderful lady... we haven't ALWAYS seen eye-to-eye, but this nightmare has brought us closer, and she's been great through it all. I've actually read to her some of YOUR words of wisdom and encouragement, and she is QUITE impressed with you, Ms. Slayer! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



As ALWAYS, your support is appreciated way beyond what my simple words can say.

I'm doing pretty well, I guess -- as long as I keep looking forward. I've trained myself to not look back... at least for now. I can't do that forever, and I suppose someday it won't be so painful.

BUT... the overwhelming feeling right now is worry -- for/about her. I'd prefer to be angry... it'd make things a lot easier!
She was supposed to get in touch with me yesterday, but it didn't happen. As we get down to the wire here, she's still "resisting" in her own way. My imagination occasionally tells me that that means she's not ready for D. And then comes the worry, concern... and confusion.

So, here's what'll happen: she'll say nothing, we'll be D'd, and I'll spend the next 25 years wondering... did my first wife really want to end our marriage? Or was there something she wanted to say, but just couldn't get it out?

This isn't the way it's supposed to be.



I'm not that kind of guy either, but... do ya think he'd let me borrow his shirt?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Exactly!

Thank you for all your compliments. Your WW is NUTS to give up such a cheerleader as yourself. She will find it is a cold, dark world without you in it, brightening her day, I tell you.

It is so weird. Today, I was talking to one of H's co-workers, whose WW has left him and their 2 small children for her boss (the man I cook for). And I asked how the D was proceeding, as the WW has sought it out. But I guess she has done nothing about it. So the man just hangs in limbo, like you.

And I guess the WW is now thinking that she wants to move to London with the OM (who has D'd his W and alienated his small children) ~ and have no contact with the kids. I guess her dad was M'd 5 times, and had kids in 4 of the 5 M's, and didn't see any of them when he left the M. My friend is afraid she is reliving his history, as you have indicated you are afraid your WW is doing.

Then I look at me, and my mom's history with men made me double-sure I wanted to only be M'd once in my life. I guess it depends what happens in whose life, or maybe it doesn't matter at all. It all just seems so horrible.

Anyway, this post has taken me a long time to write tonight, and it's kinda disjointed. I'll post again in the morning.

Spidey

THANK you, Spidey.
If you ONLY KNEW how many people have told me I looked like a [censored] in my mini-skirt and pom-poms!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



I was just thinking about that... As you've said... who knows?!? what's going on in her head. But she did go through her parents' messy D, and of course whatever happened before her family broke apart. But she always had a hard time talking about it, and even when she did, it wasn't on a very deep level.


My STBX-BIL said "You'd think she (WW) would've learned." He was referring to the Hell that he and his sister went through -- their father's infidelity and the downward spiral from there...

It's what we DO with the STUFF that life throws at us, right? We can learn from it, grow from it... or we can let it diminish us, even destroy us.

Well, in my last post I said she was "resisting" in her own way. She called last night -- she was "working on the numbers" (settlement agreement; that I gave her). I'll skip the details because they're not very exciting anyway, but it was a 30-second? conversation, and... lo and behold, after all this time, after all I've tried to do, after all this NOTHING from her... it appears she will be in War Mode from here on out.

The bottom line for me, I think, is that since D-Day 15 months ago, I've seen the true character of the person I thought I wanted to spend my life with. It hurts to see it... it hurts to say it... but right now I can find virtually NO redeeming qualities in the woman I've been madly in love with for 25 years. I like to think they're in there somewhere, just buried under all the mess...

Anyway...it appears that now, to her, I'm the enemy.

I'm beginning to realize, and understand... because of her experiences growing up, and the "emotional education" she received from her parents (ie. plenty of it -- just the wrong kind)... the values instilled in her... all that baggage she's carried, all those demons still in there... I've probably NEVER BEEN more than the flip-of-a-switch away from being her enemy.

I guess I'm talking about the capacity to love... to trust... it's REALLY hard for me to accept, but I've come to realize that perhaps my STBXW has no such thing.

Hmmm... if you cannot trust... can you love? Maybe that's it, right there. My poor STBXW was raised in a world devoid of trust -- her world, I mean.

Quote from my STBX-MIL: "Honesty and trust only go so far in a marriage." I think I've written that already... a couple hundred pages ago.

All of this is making me kinda sick.... so I'll stop.

----

ps. because, in reading this over, I'm a little embarrassed... one of those posts that I'm reluctant to submit...

for those who may be thinking I enjoy "bashing" my STBXW... I'm not bashing. Just trying to understand, trying to make some kind of sense of it all. I've loved her for a long, long time... the good AND the not-so-good parts.

Thanks for listening!

pps. speaking of not feeling well... Spidey, how are YOU feeling... better I hope?!?

Thanks for asking. I am feeling better. I felt better yesterday than I do today, unfortunately. I was hoping to be on a straight, UPward climb to wellness, but, alas, I can only go as fast as my body will let me.

My H is taking great care of me, though. He wasn't even upset that he raced home to be on time for dinner, only to find me "resting my eyes" on the couch (the result of ingesting 2 Nyquils, I think). He made me tomato soup and geve me crackers and more water. I love him!

I didn't take your last post as STBXW-bashing. Heck, I've done more of that than you have! I'm not proud of it, but I also hesistate to edit my posts. Long ago I realized that if I didn't feel the way I felt, I shouldn't hit "Continue." I try and leave even my ugly ones in place, so everyone can see that everyone loses it from time to time.

Wow, all of that stuff is pretty major, friend. My H has asked me that question before ~ Can there be love with no trust? A M with no trust?

My trust has come back very slowly. Not trust in regards to day-to-day stuff. I don't think H is calling OW/FBF, or trying to get with any other women. I think where my lack of trust was, until just recently, was how he would handle another life crisis ~ one of HIS life crisis. I was afraid he wouldn't be up for taking care of himself, and that I would get hurt in the process.

He has really shown me what he is capable of during this recovery, though. Many many many times, he was the force that held the M together, when I just wanted to run, or quit, or throw my hands in the air and just scream for forever. I have a lot more faith in him than I used to, that's for sure.

How do you feel you are becoming the "enemy?" Is she acting like you are trying to steal from her, or take something away from her, in the separation agreement?

I still cannot get over how much my H saw me as the "enemy" during his A, and even after OW/FBF broke it off with him. I had been so loyal and steadfast with him for so many years, and suddenly, everything I 1)had ever done in the past, and 2)was currently doing, were all seen as his reasons for seeing me as the enemy. It was horrible. I felt like I was living in a nightmare, like my reality had been turned inside-out. I kept thinking I would/could wake up, and he would be there next to me, ready to chase my bad dreams away.

Then, I accepted reality. I accepted that he didn't love me anymore, that he had changed. And I realized that that was OK, because I didn't like who he had become. And if he wasn't willing/able to change back, then I didn't want him. He was no longer the man I had fallen in love with, that I wanted to be with. I didn't recognize his eyes anymore.


NO! Who are these people? You look GREAT in your mini-skirt, hairy legs and all, and don't you let anyone tell you any different! They were probably just jealous, so they were trying to put you down, to make themselves feel better. And who doesn't love a man with pom-poms??? You are FABulous!

Spidey

Spidey... howzit goin' today???

I've been meaning to ask you... I ASSUME! you're not trying to keep up with your running schedule, are you?!?

I know how I feel when I screw up my workouts more than a couple days -- not good. Old guys like me can't afford to let things slide for long... it's hard enough to make any gains as it is!

Anyway, I do hope you're feeling better, and out of the woods.
NEXT time you spend a week partying it up in the cold, clammy EAST... ummm, wear a HAT, would ya? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I was the enemy late last summer, I think after she first decided to leave (or rather, first convinced herself she was leaving, as it took a few more months to actually do it). I can't even explain it... she was reliving her past (her parents' D) -- she watched as her father became the enemy -- and my STBXW was following some script that she thought she was supposed to follow. I forget the exact timing of everything, but we were supposedly working things out, and then like flipping a switch... all of a sudden I was living with Linda Blair in the Exorcist. It was H E L L.

In retrospect, I should've bailed out THEN, but... her behavior was so bizarre that I was truly worried about her mental stability.

But, the point is, that whole deal I just described included her ranting and carrying on (I heard the conversations she had with her brother, as I was still in Spy Mode) about a "settlement" which she envisioned, and she was ruthless... no, worse than ruthless. Quite simply: I was The Enemy.

Fast-forward (please!!) to a couple days ago -- I heard the tone of her voice... that's all it took for me to ASSume that once again, I'm the enemy. We'll see... maybe...hopefully, I spoke too soon. Haven't heard from her in a couple days.



And look where you guys are today... Pretty cool, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Ya know, I keep reading that line... staring at it... OVER and OVER... it's... it's HUGE!
It's GOTTA be the FIRST time ANYone ANYwhere has EVER said that to ANYone!!
And you said it to ME! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ahem... Spidey... think about it... could that be the title for our book???