The stories here about the WS actions over and over again, just plain stink. Really stinks..... we can list them out, we can tell the same story over and over (just with different names, times and places) but it still stinks.....

How can the BS use that to their advantage?

I have brought this up before..... there are advantages to using this kind of approach.

More coming later....

Added disclaimer: The title may seem offensive. I highly recommend you at least read through to page 2 where I have started my further comments. Clarification may help. Hope so. Informative comments from all are always appreciated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid, I have a plan that falls right in line with this. If you go to my War thread, the last post from me says it all. In this case it is against OW. But, as it is part of a much bigger plan, it helps. I think.

I think I smell it.

MIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>

More coming later.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I certainly hope so.....

I was sure that I had taken a shower....didn't realize there was a stench..

**sniff...sniff**

you realize, of course, that if I, as a WS had opened a thread using the words "BS" and "stench" in the same heading, I would be run off the board, complaints about my choice of wording, and my choices in life in general, would be attacked...

you know, "stench" is godawfully RUDE........


Dylan ...

Yikes... Orchid... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'm sitting here stunned. I'm actually offended by one of your posts...

That's never happened before...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something???

dewt

I think affairs stink. Something is rotten in our particular Denmark. Stench, yeh probably.

I think the best thing we know is that WS act the same. There seems to be one story that plays over and over. It's like those Rock'em Sock 'em robots. You almost always know which arm is going to come up to punch. Sometimes, we just choose not to look.

Are you having a bad day Orchid? (((((hug)))))

The "stench" of an active WS comes from failure of the basic "hygiene" of human behavior.

The "deodorant" for a former WS manifests itself in honesty, remorse, regret and the forgiveness these can generate. It works very well.

WAT

I adore my husband... you know, the man he is today.

But while he was a WH ... his actions DID stink !!!!

Here is but one...

WH (before discovery) told me and our kids that he "had to go" to his hometown to care for his ailing Dad. Fine. On Father's Day. OK, fine ... you want to be with your Dad on what might be his last Father's Day. WH spent a few hours with his ailing Dad. Spent the remaining 4 days with OW at a resort.

Dewt, and Soulloss ... are you telling me WH's affair actions were not stinky and full of stench????

Go ahead... open a thread about BS stench ... and I'll share some of my own stench on that thread. Taking offense at what is true ... does not make sense to me.

Pep

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Let's not forget there is a difference between a WS and a FWS. The former stinks. The latter can come out smelling like a rose if they do all the right things. My FWS smells as sweet as a newborn baby today. During the affair, stinky poo!

~ Snow

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Snowbelle:
<strong> Let's not forget there is a difference between a WS and a FWS. The former stinks. The latter can come out smelling like a rose if they do all the right things. My FWS smells as sweet as a newborn baby today. During the affair, stinky poo!

~ Snow </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My husband is gorgeous ... inside and out !

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:


How can the BS use that to their advantage?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THIS is the center of O's point !!!

Pep

I agree with snowbelle that it is important to make a distinction between WS and FWS for the former stinks like a skunk while the latter smells 'lemony fresh' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TMCM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Dewt, and Soulloss ... are you telling me WH's affair actions were not stinky and full of stench????</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I don't speak for soulloss, but as for me, that's not at all what I'm saying.

I'm objecting to the tone, and to the fact that there's a difference between saying "WS stink" and WS actions stink.

But mostly I'm objecting to the tone. To say "WS stink" is a HUGE disrespectful judgement that blankets everything with a spirit of condemnation that, while justified, does little to help in dealing with it or acting in a positive, marriage building manner.

It allows people (BS) to feel self-righteous and justified in angry, hurtful thinking patterns. And right or wrong, where does that get us?

In my experience, many WS are actually good people that for whatever reasons are acting in a very stinky manner. Putting aside judgemental, emotional reactions and label and instead focussing on the understanding of WHY and then learning from that seems to me to be more of what this site is (read: should be) about.

Love ya,

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm objecting to the tone, and to the fact that there's a difference between saying "WS stink" and WS actions stink.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is what Orchid said --->

"The stories about the WS actions over and over again, just plain stink."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But mostly I'm objecting to the tone. To say "WS stink" is a HUGE disrespectful judgement that blankets everything with a spirit of condemnation that, while justified, does little to help in dealing with it or acting in a positive, marriage building manner.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are presuming a "tone".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It allows people (BS) to feel self-righteous and justified in angry, hurtful thinking patterns.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not feel allowed to self-righteous, angry, or hurtful thoughts by Orchid's words. Do you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And right or wrong, where does that get us?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my experience, many WS are actually good people that for whatever reasons are acting in a very stinky manner.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what Orchid said. Acting in a stinky manner.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Putting aside judgemental, emotional reactions and label and instead focussing on the understanding of WHY</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The "why" is not as important as stopping the stinky destructive behavior, in my opinion.

Are you trying to shame another long-time BS from freely expressing herself Dewt?

Pep

Don't cheat on me, lie to me and my children, risk bringing STD's into my bed, and then ask me to talk nice to you .
PM

Gotta agree with Pep here, Dewt. Perhaps you are offering an interpretation that is all your own? I read Orchids post and believed she was saying that the actions of WS are so similar and repetetive that the BS's here can learn a lot without having to go through all of it themselves. She's hinting at a way for BS's to smarten up and use all of the info on the slimy, stinking WAYS of WS's and use them to their advantage. I can't wait to hear more on the subject.

Lemony Fresh! I like that TMCM!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Here is what Orchid said ---

"The stories about the WS actions over and over again, just plain stink." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. I got that. No problem there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>You are presuming a "tone".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. And hoping that I'd misunderstood. Which was what my first post was about. Still hoping that Orchid will come back and clarify.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>I do not feel allowed to self-righteous, angry, or hurtful thoughts by Orchid's words. Do you?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I usually find Orchids posts to be thought provoking and positive. I look to her as a source of wisdom here at MB. Otherwise I would not have noted nor posted to this thread topic in the first place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>And right or wrong, where does that get us?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">????</strong>[/QUOTE]

My point was that being able to fly the banner of righteousness (ie smelling like roses as oppossed to stinking) brings us no closer to reconcilation. It is my opinion that the contrary is more often the case.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>That's what Orchid said. Acting in a stinky manner.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, but then there's the thread title, and then a mention of using this as a sort of approach. This just confused me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>The "why" is not as important as stopping the stinky destructive behavior, in my opinion.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok. I understand that. My view differs greatly in that understanding the "why" is paramount to stopping the stinky behaviour in a more 'get to the root of it' kind of way. I also believe the understanding the "why" is a key building block in a lasting and meaningful recovery. I believe that if we lose sight of the "why" it makes all those stinky behaviours even harder to take, and harder to forgive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Are you trying to shame another long-time BS from freely expressing herself Dewt?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. Like I said, my first reaction was to be offended. But I was surprised by that and was hoping that I'd misunderstood.

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Snowbelle:
<strong>I read Orchids post and believed she was saying that the actions of WS are so similar and repetetive that the BS's here can learn a lot without having to go through all of it themselves. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yes! And this I sooo totally agree with. A thousand percent.

My point is that by labelling it as 'stinky' we are making a huge Disrespectful Judgement. We are setting a tone to our perspective that will inhibit understanding and forgiveness. Two concepts that are crucial to even approaching recovery.

dewt

I see your point, Dewt. Perhaps the TITLE could be altered. Would that have helped you to read it a little differently?

~ Snow

oops...

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>