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I didn't want to threadjack another thread where Ark asked the question on why many WS disdain the term adulterer, with a question of my own: Why do so many BS's disdain the term 'lover' for their 'adulterer' spouse's OP?

Strangely Dr Harley uses the words in some of his infidelity articles including the one titled "What to Do When You (or Your Spouse) Becomes Pregnant with a Lover's Child". So if the good doctor uses it, why should some BS get bent out of shape when a WS or BS uses the much more blunt, and emotional term 'lover'?

I'm not trying to be cute here but if we as BS are willing to use an accurate but emotionally impacting word like 'adulterer' to describe the WS, then why stop with the more euphemistic term OM/OW?

TMCM

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

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I can't stand the term "lover", so I would feel very comfortable using it to describe the OP my SO is/was/may be cheating with.

I can very easily see myself saying "who was that on the phone, your LOVER?"

Yeah, I like it.

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Weaver,

Thanks for your input and I totally understand your queasiness with the term itself. My concern is that when a BS uses emotionally charged terms like 'adulterer' he/she opens the door wide open to DJ [disrespectful judgements] big time.

TMCM

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HMM..

The term lover doesn't bother me..although the use of OWs name doesn't make me flinch either and that is a common thing to not be tolerated [so maybe I'm just weird <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ]..but put into another context..I can see how it might apply in a similar fashion.

Adulterer is an accusatory term..no other way it can possibly be received. You may as well call them a thief, or a rapist. It's specific and a criminal offense and can't be taken as anything but an attack. Lover..can go either way. It's an accurate term in either case. I would be more offended at use of the term "girlfriend" in regard to an OW [which many people here do, and it doesn't seem to bother them..go figure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ] because the title of "girlfriend" suggests legitimacy in the relationship. That person may just as ludicrously be referred to as my husbands wife by the same lack of logic. Which threatens me. Which raises my hackles.

I think the terms that step on our territory are the terms that sour our mouths..and it's as individual as the persons involved. A term such as lover..maybe...probably causes the spouse to feel diminished by default..if they have a lover who isn't you, you have been defrauded, demoted.

Interesting..I'll give it some more thought.

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Oh, okay.

Well the the term "lover" would be a DJ if it came out of my mouth. I would have to stick with (F)OP or (F)affair partner if it was to be respectful.

But maybe saying lover is less yucky for others.

I use the name "miss wonderbra" (they're fake you know) when describing my ex's OP, or if I am in a really good mood and tyring not to hurt his feelings, I just use her name.

I didn't read the post you brought this over from, so I am probably just babbling incoherently here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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What thread did this come over from?

[perking up with interest]

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My concern is that when a BS uses emotionally charged terms like 'adulterer' he/she opens the door wide open to DJ [disrespectful judgements] big time.

see I don't see the term adulterer NOTE THE SPELLING. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

though the reaction is emotional often from the WS...I don't see the term itself being lobbied as emotionally charged...and would say that some BS are surprised by the vicious response that word begets...

adulterer is clearly definable...
probably in my old random house sitting right here...

lover...totally subjective in definition....

infact I find the word lover disdainful because of the WS and OP tendency to change definitions....especially of the word love...NOT to say the don't FEEL loving feelings for one another...but it is definitely tainted and twisted...

lover also denotes without question a sexual aspect...and in my opinion...the sex part of an affair..

that's the easiest part of the whole thing...
teenagers get that sex feels good....

ws and op use sex as a weapon and a conquest/imagined contest and all kinds of things it's not supposed to be....

I get that it feeeeels gooood...
but it's lacking a firm foundation...

quite a few on that other website...spending a lot of time in the back seat of a car... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

yeah I think that's how God envisioned people using his gift of human sexuality...and when you can't have the full package of real partner that can NOT really nourish and meet needs 24/7...let's atleast call them lover....

the word lover ...blech...shallow shallow shallow....

ARK,

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOODLE:
Adulterer is an accusatory term..no other way it can possibly be received. You may as well call them a thief, or a rapist. It's specific and a criminal offense and can't be taken as anything but an attack. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They're all descriptions that are objectionably definable without any bias. One who steals is a thief, one who has sexual intercourse without the partner’s consent is a rapist and one who has sex outside of a marriage is an adulterer. The ones that find the label offensive are thieves, rapists and adulterers. Maybe the term extramarital sexual explorer would be preferable to them....better yet....ESE's...but they're still adulterers.

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Binder,

That is my point precisely..there IS no good way to take that term..if it accurate..then your behavior..and by extension your person, is pretty shabby. And you say people don't respond well to it? Huh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It isn't a DJ to call a thief a thief..but they won't like it.

Now lover on the other hand..has no inherent negative conotations..in fact often the opposite. Which is likely why it affects people differently.

Noodle

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:

I use the name "miss wonderbra" (they're fake you know) when describing my ex's OP, or if I am in a really good mood and tyring not to hurt his feelings, I just use her name.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I use to refer my XWW [first W] OMs as L.O.S.E.R.S [League Of Sexually Energized Rectal Sphincters] <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by noodle:

What thread did this come over from? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's from emotional affairs...defined

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^

adulterer is clearly definable...
probably in my old random house sitting right here...

lover...totally subjective in definition....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lover could be a subjective term but not in the context of an affair.

TMCM

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AAAAHHHHHHHHH...... Binder says after stating obviously what Noodle obviously had already stated so she could again state the obvious to show Binder that it was obvious.


Back to lurking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
AAAAHHHHHHHHH...... Binder says after stating obviously what Noodle obviously had already stated so she could again state the obvious to show Binder that it was obvious.


Back to lurking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have we started hitting tomorrow's bubbly? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

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Oh..I hadn't realized you weren't already agreeing with me.

'Cause..ya know..It's so obvious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[says Noodle..who has no sense of entitlement at all..nope..and who never makes assumptions either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ]

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To be honest, I would have preferred that my FWH and the OW would have just said it straight out! They had become lovers! They kept calling themselves "just good friends." Up until the very end, that is what they called themselves. Uggghhh.

I felt for a long time that they had defamed the word "friend." That bothered me so much. Then H would try and tell me that him and I could still "be friends," even after he D'd me ~ and I thought that was horrible! I didn't know what his knew definition of "friend" was. Seemed corrupted.

So, I say "call it like you see it." Don't try and cover it up with niceties.

Personally, since I felt the description of "rutting like animals in heat" was too harsh, I prefer to now refer to them as WS, OP, and the act as SF. I separate it all out.

Spidey

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
To be honest, I would have preferred that my FWH and the OW would have just said it straight out! They had become lovers! They kept calling themselves "just good friends." Up until the very end, that is what they called themselves. Uggghhh.

I felt for a long time that they had defamed the word "friend." That bothered me so much. Then H would try and tell me that him and I could still "be friends," even after he D'd me ~ and I thought that was horrible! I didn't know what his knew definition of "friend" was. Seemed corrupted.

So, I say "call it like you see it." Don't try and cover it up with niceties.

Personally, since I felt the description of "rutting like animals in heat" was too harsh, I prefer to now refer to them as WS, OP, and the act as SF. I separate it all out.

Spidey</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course they were friends, they just 'forgot' to tell you that they were friends 'with benefits'.

Those foggy, crazy lovesick 'friends', don't you just love 'em? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


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***Why do so many BS's disdain the term 'lover' for their 'adulterer' spouse's OP?***

Because being his lover was supposed to be *my* place. *My* title. And she stole it. Gee, why didn't she just start calling herself "Mrs. Hisname," too?

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Does it really matter how the WS "feels" about a term. Last time I checked it was society, not me, that defined words. I cannot help the fact that adulterer is defined as a person having sex outside of marriage. I cannot help that most of society deems adultery wrong. I cannot help that WS feel bad at being called adulterers. It's just a word, and that word has a definition placed on it. If that definition matches the person/thing that you are using it on what's the big deal. Again it goes back to the example of thief, if the thief doesn't like to be called that... STOP stealing.

Now of course I'm not saying that while in recovery you should purposely use words that hurt your WS. However I feel that WS had actions and those actions have definitions. If they don't like it don't do it.

Native

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If the purpose of ones efforts is to save/rebuild the marriage, then emotionally charged words like 'adulterer' and 'lover' should have no place in the lingo of the BS. There is an old MB saying that still rings true and it is:

'Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?'

TMCM

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I agree, that if trying to save the M these words should probably not be used.

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My WH used this term, saying that if an emotional affair is valid, then he would be an adulterer. I feel that this is why he will not even consider what he did was wrong, because to him he would have to then consider himself an adulterer. I don't believe that I used this term to him.
How could I get him to believe in emotional affairs, that then led to a PA, even though we are seperated, if this term is so hard/horrible for him? Is there a nutural ground to go to?

I don't think the OW can be considered his "lover". Is it normal for people to keep their "lover" a secret? To hide it? To deny it? To use the terms such as "good friends", or "just friends". They might have an emotional connection - by secret but why hide it in the light of day?

At one time my H, (not WH big difference) was my "lover". We brought happiness to each other, was not ashamed who knew it. We didn't hide it, that's why we got married. We had children. We enjoyed our family and friends together. We had trust and honesty.

I do think, in my suitation when we started slipping in being "lovers" our M was affected, and we didn't notice it until it was too late. The feeling of having a "lover" is what I miss from him. Otherwise....we would be "just friends"?

<small>[ December 30, 2004, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: allirose89 ]</small>

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