This sucks. Period. I wanted to vent a little because, well.... this sucks. What you ask? It sucks that I have destroyed my wife. I hate seeing her so beat down. I would whip the he11 out of the guy that did it.... but that guy is me. Sad, really.

Last night we were doing some of the questionairs. We did the recreational activity one for husband and wife. Mostly positive, actually. It really put in perspective, for me, that we have a large amount of things we like to do that coincide. It was an uplifting deal for me. Then we started on the personal history. We started filling it out and then I said how about we just talk through it because I didn't require a written record of all of it(I figured with teenagers around, maybe not the best idea). she was fine with that and we began talking. We discussed parents, siblings and so on. she would do a page. I would do a page. That was going well and then it was midnight and I was spent(I had been fighting falling asleep for a few hours) Right after we stopped, her mood went from seemingly glad we were discussing things to completely indifferent and fairly sure we would never be able to pull this recovery business off.

It kills a little piece of me everytime she says things like that because I am the one that put her in this position.

She thinks I love her because of the things she does for me. Well, practicing RH, I would have to say that is a component of the reason... but not the entire reason. I love who she is. How she looks. I admit what I did was wrong and destructive, but I was blind to what was truly important to me. Sad thing is, now that I can see, it may be too late. I pray it's not. She is the world to me.

She says you "loved" me before. I was blind and selfish. The guy I was then spent way too much time on the computer playing games. The guy I was put my gaming buddies before her. The guy I was felt pressured by her and used that for a reason to do what I did.

Well... sadly, the pressure I was feeling was due to the fact I did not always tell her the truth about how I felt. And when the truth would slip out somehow, she would see things I said not matching up and begin interrogating me about the decrepencies. My fault. The gaming buddies? I am still friends with them but I haven't played with them for a while. And anytime they have needed me(we play in matches competitively) I have declined because she was more important than them. Blind and selfish? Well, I am not blind anymore. I see what I did and I now see what it has caused. Ouch. Selfish? RH messes with me on this one because I want to stay in my marriage. I want. does that make me selfish? I want to make her happy. But I want that to be with me. selfish?

somedays I do want to throw in the towel, but only because this hurts me too and I want the pain to stop. But, as I have said, I will not take the cowardly out on this. And more than that, I love her dearly and can't even stand the idea of us not being married.

I hope that the #1 priority in my life(granted... she was not always, damn me) will accept her new place in my priorities and see the light at the end of the tunnel. It is hard I know, froz. But it's hard for me too. Nothing says "you suck" like destroying the one thing you love and then scrambling trying to fix it.

anyway... sorry for the stream of consciousness posting...

Patriot,

Rant away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Your right to think difficult things suck baby howler monkey butt has not been dissolved because you are the WS.

It is difficult and painfull. Especially when you are on the wrong end of some very bad choices, and when you realize that your WSness extends far beyond your actual A..that your entire life framework is going to need reconstructing.

Dealing with the BS fog is no day at the fair either. I'm in, I'm out..we can..it won't work..all necessary and unavoidable steps for the BS who is trying to be willing to try reconciliation..but what a knifes blade to stand on and for such a long time!

I think the FWS gets a fair idea of what the BS experiences with regard to uncertainty about the future..and uncertainty that what they are investing in will bear a good return. it's a gamble, that's for certain.

You can expect lots more of it too..because when she says she wants out..she probably really means it..that moment..and when she wants to try for salvage..she means that too.

Basically, she wants what she can never have..not with you..perhaps not with anyone and there is mourning to be had for what has been taken from her by force from one she loved and trusted.

As are a destructive force the likes of which can not be measured against any circumstance in life. There is truly nothing like it.

Noodle

Hi Patriot:

Most on this board hoped to hear this from you. Please let me explain (by the way; I was a BS, so I know where Froz is coming from. I also know what would have worked for me, if WXW had been receptive):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sucks. Period. I wanted to vent a little because, well.... this sucks. What you ask? It sucks that I have destroyed my wife. I hate seeing her so beat down. I would whip the he11 out of the guy that did it.... but that guy is me. Sad, really.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're going through your own type of recovery here. It's a good thing that it hurts you so much. You now realize how much froz means to you. Soon; you will need to forgive yourself. The trick is to forgive yourself w/o any expectations for Froz to do the same. When she does forgive you is totally on her time and this time-frame should never be judged, particularly not by you! She will hurt for a long time and you are the only one who can help her with this. So be there for her. when she hurts, soothe her, apologize again (forever if necessary) and love her!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Last night we were doing some of the questionairs. We did the recreational activity one for husband and wife. Mostly positive, actually. It really put in perspective, for me, that we have a large amount of things we like to do that coincide. It was an uplifting deal for me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Great! Confirmation that you two have the potential for a special marriage!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then we started on the personal history. We started filling it out and then I said how about we just talk through it because I didn't require a written record of all of it(I figured with teenagers around, maybe not the best idea). she was fine with that and we began talking. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You should not have skipped the writing exercize! Writing is part of what Froz (and your M) needs. Remember; you broke her trust. Any time we write something down; it holds more weight than words - because there is no room for manipulation at a later date. Froz needed this reassurance. I suggest you go back and do the exercize in writing and put the results in a safe so as not to be seen by anyone else! Remember; this is about you & Froz - so don't allow any room for excuses and shortcuts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right after we stopped, her mood went from seemingly glad we were discussing things to completely indifferent and fairly sure we would never be able to pull this recovery business off.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will have these experiences several more times. Although perhaps sub-consciously; she is needing support from you when she does this. Since you did not write down what was needed, she could not "hear" your words when she needed confirmation. Remember also that her memory is whacked out as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She thinks I love her because of the things she does for me. Well, practicing RH, I would have to say that is a component of the reason... but not the entire reason. I love who she is. How she looks. I admit what I did was wrong and destructive, but I was blind to what was truly important to me. Sad thing is, now that I can see, it may be too late. I pray it's not. She is the world to me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not too late! She wants you. She needs you. You have to step up and be there for her. It's time for you to become the leader (spiritual and emotional) in your marriage. It's time to "Be The Man!"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I am not blind anymore. I see what I did and I now see what it has caused. Ouch. Selfish? RH messes with me on this one because I want to stay in my marriage. I want. does that make me selfish? I want to make her happy. But I want that to be with me. selfish?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Awesome words. Make sure she sees this!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">somedays I do want to throw in the towel, but only because this hurts me too and I want the pain to stop. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not an Option!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And more than that, I love her dearly and can't even stand the idea of us not being married.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Awesome!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope that the #1 priority in my life(granted... she was not always, damn me) will accept her new place in my priorities and see the light at the end of the tunnel. It is hard I know, froz. But it's hard for me too. Nothing says "you suck" like destroying the one thing you love and then scrambling trying to fix it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will see it! Just keep doing what you're doing. Keep froz' feelings before yours and everyone elses. She will eventually love you more than ever before. You 2 have the potential for one of those "special" marriages that very few have. Stay the course! One day you'll be old & gray, this will all be a long, lost memory and you two will still be in total love. How awesome is that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FR

Hi, Pat...

I've seen a couple of your posts now. There seems to be no doubt that you are penitent and want to fix the damage you've done.

It's going to be hard...and frustrating. You will need to learn patience with her, and yourself.

One word of caution. I notice a fair amount of self-flagellation in your posts. I'd encourage you to ask yourself why you are doing this.

Beating yourself up may initially show that you are remorseful but quickly wears thin. Be careful that you aren't doing it to garner pity. You want to recover respect, not pity. True remorse will be demonstrated in your actions. Recovering your wife's respect will be tough enough. The sooner your can start recovering your self respect, the sooner she will begin to believe there is hope for your future.

There is nothing more pathetic and unattractive than someone who has done wrong crying about how they are hurting because of what they've done to themselves. Yes, I know the pain is real, but it's the kind of pain for which we have to buck up and manage. I'm not telling you that your feelings aren't important, but that you now have to have awareness of how expressing them affects your wife and other relationships.

I ultimately had to seek professional counseling. It gave me a safe place to talk about all those "poor pitiful me" feelings without fear of discouraging my wife.

From now on...simply acknowledge what you did was wrong, say you are very sorry, and be consistent in word and deed.

Low

<small>[ January 11, 2005, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I love who she is. How she looks</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She is the world to me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> she was more important than them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love her dearly</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I apologize for crashing this thread, but I felt compelled to interject.

The above statements are all things that were said to me while my then-fiancee was conducting an affair. They are being said to me still. Obviously I cannot distinguish the difference between a truth and a lie. He has an uncanny ability to paint a picture with words that looks like the vision in my heart and always has. I don't seem to have the capability to differentiate between what is real and what is the illusion of the beautiful artwork he creates to avoid the one thing he is truly afraid of...being alone.

Froz.... start a new thread....

When a couple posts back and forth like this on each other's thread... it's almost always a disaster.

Pep

Froz,

I know those things may seem like they were lies...how could he feel those things and still have an affair? But the truth is he probably believed them then

While my affair was ongoing, I often told my wife ILY...I did, in fact, love her very much. I had compartmentalized my affair.

I knew she was important to me...I just didn't know how important until the possibility of actually losing her became very real. I had a choice between OW and my Wife...it was no contest, my wife was my world. The thrill of the affair had distracted me from that.

So, I would encourage you to believe that he meant these things, even during the affair. They were not lies.

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LowOrbit:

So, I would encourage you to believe that he meant these things, even during the affair. They were not lies. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Low ... I agree with you ... but you may not see the problem with this.

WHAT good is an "ILY" now?

The words lose their meaning.

"I love you AND I can screw around behind your back."

The love or lack thereof is NOT the problem in this marriage... it is a matter of

trust
respect
integrity

Pep

You're right Pep...

I am well aware that the mweaning of these words gets called into question.

Did you know that I would NOT tell my wife I loved her for a long time after d-day?

It was because I came to realize that that I didn't understand those words. I also came to realize just how powerful they really were.

I wanted to make sure that I knew what I was saying the next time I said it.

It took alot of soul searching, but I did, in fact, love my wife even during the affair.

Does she struggle with this? Of course she does, but it does ME good to know it was true. It lets me view the affair for what it was...a distraction from what was real.

Low

*Sigh* Fishracer....the old and grey comment made me cry.....my husband always said he wanted to grow old with me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

-Caren