I agree with Pep.

I would not feed his delusions..and I would not make myself vulnerable to them by exposure.

If he is coming against your wishes..he can find his own means of doing so.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> side note here..... someone at the school I work for was going to give a extra car they have to charity. They heard what happened to my car and offered it to me instead. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT ONE?!?>
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Providence, Faith. It's Providence.

I love you - you are also a lighthouse of strength for me!

I've got a tent I can send you. I'll bet it's super cold where you are.......(evil smiley inserted here)

FIM - In your jurisdiction, what legally binding terms - if any - get established when you file? I think I remember correctly that you do not have, or cannot get (because it isn't available to you), a legal separation that would have specified such things as visitation, access to the home, etc.

It seems that at some point in the divorce process issues like this have to be settled. If filing for divorce accomplisges this in your area, perhaps he needs to be served in SAT or when he gets off the plane?

WAT

FIM ~ I have followed your story and replied when I felt I had something to offer. I guess what I don't understand here is if you have filed for divorce, and are set on going through with it given all that you have been through, then why subject yourself and your children to yet another one of his 'visits'? The reality starts now. He should be served now, he should not be staying at the house attempting to play house and change your mind yet again...anything he choses to do is his responsibility not yours. What is in this for you and your kids? Are you still trying to show him what he is missing in the hopes he will come home? And what will you have if he does? If you are indeed going to do this then do it, don't just threaten him with it.

<small>[ January 25, 2005, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: victoria farrar ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by victoria farrar:
If you are indeed going to do this, then do it don't just threaten him with it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EXactly!

Good post VF.

Pep

FIM - stop reading this reply. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by victoria farrar:
<strong>why subject yourself and your children to yet another one of his 'visits'?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Vic - it's because she's not yet sure she wants a divorce, IMHO.

OK, FIM, start reading again.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

WAT

WAT, that may indeed be the case and if it is then why do it?

What I see is the same old song and dance that has been going on for how many months? FIM says go away and H says oh honey I am coming home. He comes, makes happy then goes off to OW again. Same thing happening again, FIM takes a stand, H calls and says I have booked a flight home, she says stay there and he is on his way anyway. He doesn't take anything she says seriously...and why should he when FIM welcomes him back every time he pulls this. I may not sound very MB at the moment, but part of that is also pointing out when people are caught up in repetitive behavior that has gotten them no where in the past and is likely to get them there again.

When does this endless cycle stop? When FIM finally puts her foot down on his shenanigans and lets him know she means what she says, backs it up with time and action...and lets him reap the seeds he has sown.

Sorry lemonman, if you are reading this, sort of wandering into your territory.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Vic - I agree. Full Monty.

FIM - keep in mind that we can't see your facial expressions, we can't hear your voice, we can't see your body language. We only read your words. I am not convinced.

I don't think you're certain about the divorce.

If you are, play hardball. Take no prisoners. All you have to gain is anxiety by allowing him into your home - unless you legally cannot prevent it.

WAT

okay, okay, okay already!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You're all correct.

I am rolling over on this. I told him not to come, I believe his coming is only going to disrupt the peace that I'm trying to build for me and the kids and I need to stop worrying about what he's going to do for a place to stay.

I'd like to believe I have a bit of a b*tch in me, and I certainly can. But, it really does go against my nature to not try and take care of people.

Hell, I even wanted to protect OW from her own actions!

But, I do need to take a stand here. I need to move forward and that is going to mean letting Dork figure this one out for himself. He's so smart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> that he outmanuevered me on coming here, he can be smart enough to find a place to stay.

As for the divorce, I do want it.

I don't know exactly how to put this, but I'll try. I do want it. I need it even more.

I don't desire it. I desired to try and fix my marriage. I desire to raise my children in a family with their father and mother. I desire to have a husband who wants to work on our marriage and to grow as a man, a husband and a father.

I know that what I desire isn't realistic.

I want a divorce because my desire can't happen by my will alone. I want a divorce because I need to move on. I want a divorce because I only have myself to blame if I give up what I want most (happiness and fullfillment)for what I want now (to not be divorced).

I need it because this isn't healthy for me or my kids.

So, I probably do need the kick in the pants and 2 x 4's to stay on track sometimes.

I was taking the easy route...short term easy anyway... by just letting him stay in the guest room and watching the kids while I'm out.

Long term though, that would just make things more difficult.

So, he can drag the tent out of the garage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , get a hotel or cancel his trip altogether.

I'm having him served when he gets here...absolutley.

There is nothing in the divorce papers that specifies his rights to be in the house. Since it is in both of our names and there is no restraining order....he may have a legal right to be there.

I don't think he'd push that one though.

I do need to get something drawn up for property division and all that fun stuff. The divorce petition simply says that it will be determined at a later date and/or by the court.

So, thank you for bringing me back down to earth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

...and sorry WAT...I even read your post. Curiosity and all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FIM

When I read your post about Dork coming home, I must admit that my heart sank. I thought...not again!...why is she letting him do this...again?

FIM, are you seeking to retrieve yourself from the damage being done by a sadly selfish man, or are you just trying to scare him into returning? Be honest with yourself - seriously honest. Because otherwise you will not be able to act with the strength that you need to show - for your children's sakes even more than yours.

You seem to have a busy weekend planned. So prsumably you had made arrangement for your children? Arrangements that they knew about and were comfortable with? But instead, without their agreement, they find themselves lumped for long periods, in their own home, with a man who has lied to them and betrayed them, a man who they must feel deeply uncertain about? He may be their father, they will still love him, but he is a source of pain and anxiety to them, and they must be protected from that. FIM, this is not a good thing to do to them.

There is nothing to be gained in allowing Dork anywhere near his family except under controlled conditions that protect the children. If he wants to see them, he can do it as the divorced dad you claim you want him to be. He can find a hotel to stay in. He can arrange a time to pick them up. He can have them for an agreed package of time. The children can be told gently that the relationship with their father must now be more formal and limited. Anything else is unfair to them.

FIM, he has had MANY chances. One more chance is not going to scatter the magic fairy dust. Showing him what he's missing is just...showing him what he can come back and experience whenever he likes.

[Edited to say: FIM, you posted while I was typing, so ignore (some) of the above. Good on ya, girl.]

TogetherAlone

<small>[ January 25, 2005, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: TogetherAlone ]</small>

TogetherAlone -

We were posting at the same time...

as I said, you're all right. I do appreciate the well deserved kick in the pants <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I hadn't planned to have the kids anywhere else. They were going to hang out with me at the school. It will be easier for me to have them with Dork though.

I'm going to make sure that time is specified and limited though. They are what concern me most with his visit. His leaving is always hard on them.

Faith -

I think you still have hope for your marriage, which is not a bad thing. But don't even worry about it - if he continues his previous behavior, you will get sick of him and not care any more.

Then you will be able to tell him to hit the road and mean it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TogetherAlone:
<strong> FIM
You seem to have a busy weekend planned. So prsumably you had made arrangement for your children? Arrangements that they knew about and were comfortable with? But instead, without their agreement, they find themselves lumped for long periods, in their own home, with a man who has lied to them and betrayed them, a man who they must feel deeply uncertain about? He may be their father, they will still love him, but he is a source of pain and anxiety to them, and they must be protected from that. FIM, this is not a good thing to do to them.

There is nothing to be gained in allowing Dork anywhere near his family except under controlled conditions that protect the children. If he wants to see them, he can do it as the divorced dad you claim you want him to be. He can find a hotel to stay in. He can arrange a time to pick them up. He can have them for an agreed package of time. The children can be told gently that the relationship with their father must now be more formal and limited. Anything else is unfair to them.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. This is what stands out for me. The children forced to spend a substantial amount of time with a man who has disrupted their very life, children who have exhibited emotionally some of the devastation that has been caused by him.

He may forever be their dad, but can we imagine how uncomfortable their encounter with him is going to be? And to be left with no other adult to lean on for support?

I would NOT allow him unsupervised or substantial amounts of time with the children. I would make arrangements for him to see them for a couple of hours at FIM's parents, or at the church or church school. Don't leave them emotionally vulnerable to someone who has not had them as his primary concern for months now.

It is expecting too much of them.

Your husband does not respect you. He doesn't respect your children. He has totally ignored your request and has made arrangements to DO WHAT HE WANTS WHEN HE WANTS IT *regardless* of YOUR desires/wishes. And YOU are accommodating his disrespect. Guest room, tent, hotel room - none of the above. You shouldn't care, you shouldn't assist. I would find pastor, priest or family member to supervise a short visit. Do not leave your children alone to deal with him, to "interact" with him. For *their* sake.

Draw the line, Faith. Stay the line. Don't sacrifice your children's mental/emotional health for a man who has no respect for you or his family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told him not to come, I believe his coming is only going to disrupt the peace that I'm trying to build for me and the kids and I need to stop worrying about what he's going to do </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FIM ~ if this is what you think/feel then under no circumstances let him do it. You have that control. This is not about doing what is easy; none of it is. You have to be the one to do what you know is right for you and your children.

Do you think leaving them with a man they really don't know or have had a relationship with is a good thing? What if he tells them that he is there to stay or to work on things with mom? How would that make them feel...or better yet what kind of signal is it sending to them when he leaves again with no word...that it is okay for your spouse to treat you that way?

You say that it is in your nature to care for people. That I can understand; I have been told for years that I am always taking in strays and trying to make things better...but sometimes being a caring person is standing your ground and allowing people to face the consequences of their actions ...saving them is not the same as caring about or for them.

I agree with Garmus. He may be lying to them the whole time only to break their little hearts. Maybe he could see them at your girlfriend's home? Or at the school?

All of his actions are what is pushing you in the direction of divorce, so I agree that he should be treated like that. Now, don't hurt me here, but I believe that if there were any chance for the marriage, love would need to be it's toughest and faith your strongest to not get sucked in. Show me the man who gets a job at home and moves back even if it means living in a tent and then I will believe him.

For now, serve him and treat him like the divorced man that his actions have said he is. If he wants his family, he is going to have to fight very hard-I mean tent in the back yard and begging for local work and just do a 360. I would not expect it (actually I do when he gets a taste of reality as the OW is LBing and he is staying at the motel 6 or homeless shelter or better yet, why not the church rectory!!).

Act the part of a woman serving him papers. You are no longer his keeper by his choice. Do not be an enabler to him. He needs to face the consequences of his actions and you must protect the kids at all cost from his lies and promises.

Again, I support whatever you need to do. Hugs-Jersey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by new jersey:
<strong> I agree with Garmus. He may be lying to them the whole time only to break their little hearts. Maybe he could see them at your girlfriend's home? Or at the school?

All of his actions are what is pushing you in the direction of divorce, so I agree that he should be treated like that. Now, don't hurt me here, but I believe that if there were any chance for the marriage, love would need to be it's toughest and faith your strongest to not get sucked in. Show me the man who gets a job at home and moves back even if it means living in a tent and then I will believe him.

For now, serve him and treat him like the divorced man that his actions have said he is. If he wants his family, he is going to have to fight very hard-I mean tent in the back yard and begging for local work and just do a 360. I would not expect it (actually I do when he gets a taste of reality as the OW is LBing and he is staying at the motel 6 or homeless shelter or better yet, why not the church rectory!!).

Act the part of a woman serving him papers. You are no longer his keeper by his choice. Do not be an enabler to him. He needs to face the consequences of his actions and you must protect the kids at all cost from his lies and promises.

Again, I support whatever you need to do. Hugs-Jersey </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NJ,

Just wanted you to know how much I appreciate HOW you put this info across. With the proper amount of strength and love. Excellent post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Please keep up the good support work.

All the best,
L.

FIM,

You have received excellent advice, but I feel compelled to add a post because of the strong similarities between your WH and mine.

If I could do anything differently the past 6 months it would be to take a firm stand with my WH. By "firm stand" I mean a 100% firm stand, no little exceptions. Let your WH face 100% of the consequences of his actions and do not assist him in any way, shape or form or this cycle may never be broken. For example, allowing him to sleep in a tent in your backyard sounds harsh, but it is still too much assistance. He should find his own accomodations somewhere else. He chose a path that he knew could lead to losing his family, and now he must experience the full impact of the consequences of that decision. Don't make the same mistake that I did.

God Bless

P.S. Consider reading the book "Tough Love" if you haven't already.

<small>[ January 25, 2005, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: cuteIShot ]</small>

Faith,

It took nearly an hour for me to read through this entire saga, and let me say:

Kudos to you, girl! YOU ROCK! You are sound like you are feeling strong!! I am brimming with pride for my gender just reading your posts!! I wish I had possessed half the balls you've got when I was dealing with my fence-sitting husband!!


Congratulations! You're truly standing up for yourself and your children! You are a role model!

You are the epitomy of an independent and strong woman. Your H is an idiot. If I were a man I'd snatch you up in a minute! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Keep up the good work! We're so proud!

Very good points and advice. Thank you.

So, this is the skinny....

I've contacted the courthouse in SAT and they gave me the number to a process server who will be serving WH his papers tomorrow.

Contacted WH to let him know that he needs to find another place to stay.

I'll be talking with the girls to let them know that mom and dad are getting a divorce and dad won't be living with us.

The visit this weekend is supposed to be a surprise for them but I am going to let them know he's coming so they are prepared and know what is going on.

I told WH that I am telling them about the divorce and that under no circumstances is he to counter that. I did tell him that he can visit the kids at the house when I am there. I feel most comfortable with that since I don't trust my family to be in the same zip code with him let alone a confined area.

I feel confident that I can do this better than a friend or relative. I would rather be there to handle any situations myself. I am going to be sure to explain pretty clearly what's going on with the girls though. I want them understanding the situation. They're pretty smart cookies

It sucks that they have to deal with it though. At least this time they will know what's going on though.

My older daughter may choose to not see him anyway. I do know that she loves him and wants him home, but she also has quite a bit of anger towards him too. I won't make them see him if they don't want to.

When I told STBXH that he needed to find somewhere else and that seeing the kids would be limited, he started in on the whole, Just let me get back there so we can talk. I want to work on this. Blah blah blah.

Then he told me that he thinks I'm just acting out of anger and I'll regret this decision by tonight.

okey dokey.

I've been thinking about this all day and trying to figure out why I feel so stongly that I want the divorce yet have such a hard time taking all the concrete steps to live it.

I came up with a reason that I'm going to have to delve into a little more later but this is my original thought.

It's darn difficult to go from a Plan A mindset to anything else. I thought my Plan A was pretty good and I was very comfortable doing it. I put all of my energy, heart and soul into it. Being a giver, that was fairly easy.

Putting my foot down and maintaining my boundaries has been much more difficult. Once again, it's a personality thing but one I must overcome.

I should not have to be pushed to my limit to enforce my own boundaries with this. Really and truly, I see myself reliving my relationship with my mother.

That in and of itself should require serious counseling on my part!

So, this is rambling now and I'm off to try and put these thoughts in some order.

Faith - Rest up sweetie. Don't worry about all of this too much. Either your husband will step up to the plate, or he won't. It is good to protect your family, which does not include your WH at this point.

But believe me, when it is time for the big D - you won't have any doubts.