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quote:
This present situation is giving OM the impression he CAN seek out contact.
Despite what many FWWs post here many still cling to the OM in one subtle way or another. It may be by allowing this passes in the hall way, reading old emails, or even remembering the good old days (most will deny it).

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Suzet...I am in a similar sit where OW works in same area as me. I have sort of a complicated story at work with all of the events that have happened, but one boundary is absolutely no contact. YOU have demanded this in your NC letter, right? It seems that there is absolutley NO REASON why OM should be/has to be contacting you. At the very least, why didn't he just email you or call you--if you were the ONLY one with this knowledge of where this other person was that he needed to see?

IMHO, the best way that it was explained is what Kasey said--there are no "accidents" or "coincidences." If there happens to be an "accident" you need to create an "accident" yourself and avoid this OM at ALL COSTS.

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liny I just want to tell you I like your sig line.

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Hey kasey--thanks, have to give credit to Finally Learning though!

Suzet...another "option" you and your H may have, besides the options that have already been given...

Next time he does contact you, maybe your H should give a "personal" call to the OM. This would do many things: prevent *you* from having to initiate contact; send the message that both you and your husband do not want this OM in your life's. Period.

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Suzet,

I think you know your answer. You said it yourself, he has crossed your boundaries. I think you need to simply tell him he is crossing boundaries you have set for yourself and you want him to NOT talk to you again.

I also think that if you are worried about your boundaries being crossed, you should tell your H. Asking him what HE thinks is sort of passing the buck on this. If you want your H's support in shutting this down, then ask for it. Don't drop it in his lap and say "how do you feel?".

I think your worries are well founded, act on them.

God Bless,

JL

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Another thought dear Suzet..

it's rather immature of OM to seek you out for chit chat after you have sent him TWO letters requesting the opposite.

He needs some maturing.
He's not a gentleman.

Don't make the mistake of thinking "oh, but I'm also to blame, I was the WW, blahblah...".

You have earned your "F".
You have matured.
Keep this guy away.. let him grow up.

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quote:
He's not a gentleman.
Exactly, very few OMs are! If a real man ever got tangled like that he would likely see the error of his ways and apologize to your H. Instead the H treated the OM as a gentleman because he expected OM to also be a gentleman----- bad mistake!

H needs to get on the phone and have a few words with OM to set him straight. I think Suzet should ask H to take care of this business once and for all.

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Suzet,
I didn't read through all the posts, so hopefully I won't just be repeating a bunch of things... Your post caught my attention because I still work with the OW. (See my brief story in my signature line...). I gave my OW one letter of closure, and then had to follow it up with an email when she tried to contact me. I made it extremely clear that the no contact was a PERMANANT CONDITION. She, for the last 2 weeks, has abided by that. (I'm only post d-day by 5 weeks...) It sounds to me like the OM in your case is still trying to get to you. Whether it's for a response or whether it's to test the waters because he wants to reignite something, it doesn't matter. He's violating your expressed wishes (twice over, I might add...).

There are a few things I am coming to realize in my situation:
1.) Although I am working with OW right now, this will not be a permanent situation either. I simply cannot completely heal and have any lasting/meaningful recovery in my marriage until there is ZERO contact, and no possibility of contact. Maybe you should consider that...???
2.) Although your H says he's ok with the "accidental contact", and that you are handling these situations correctly, I wonder if deep down inside his healing isn't really progressing either. I'm not trying to make judgements; I'm just going off what my H has told me. There have been some "accidental contact" situations in my case, although I don't actually talk to her, just brush by. My H has told me I'm handling these correctly, but that his total recovery and healing is dependent on abosolutely NO CONTACT. ??? I don't know.
3.) If it were me, and I genuinely meant what I said in my no contact letters, I don't think I'd allow this guy to "pop in" or create small talk or any of the rest of it. I think I'd make him feel like a jerk by pretending not to see or hear him. Perhaps in his distorted way of thinking he thinks that if he gets any reaction out of you at all--even if it's "professional and appropriate" that it is lisence for him to continue such behavior. Beware!! Over time this may help your guard shrink and your committment to NC fade...

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Suzet:

I think you are aware of the damage that could be caused by opening yourself up to the OM in anyway. You are a good person who immediately shared the contact story with your husband and that is good.

I immediately thought of my wife being contacted by her XOM again and how I would be upset if she didn't firmly nip it dead immediately. I think your XOM was testing the waters as a few others have suggested and he may have renewed his interest in you again. That tells me he is bold and does not care about your H or your family but only of himself.

Be firm with him and don't even leave the window open a crack. Deadbolt the doors and windows to prevent the possibility of a relapse. I know you are more aware today than before and I know you won't accidently let it happen again.

I hope my wife remains strong if faced with the same situation. I hate the thought of her having ANY contact at all.

TooSoon

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Suzet,
Hello old friend. I poped in and saw your post.
I glanced through some replies. but didn't read very carefully, so forgive me if I repeat.

No Contact is for you AND your husband. This FOM should NOT be contacting you or your husband for any reason. Small talk is just not necessary.
NOTHING, let me repeat this, NOTHING that happens to your dear husband or you is any of his business. I would tell your husband that you feel this way. No more business between the two of them. No more computers. NOTHING.

If he begins to walk beside you at work. Stop. Let him pass. If he inquires.........tell him that you do not wish to talk to him, and would prefer he go ahead of you.
End this now. You and hubby may seem fine with it, but this FOM will intrude into your life until he cause a problem again.
VERY firmly. Very "to the point".
Stop it now.
That is my best advice. I hope it helps. I hope he gets the hint. Two letters, and some time passed.......I tell you, Suzet, He is at it again. Don't give him ANY room in your precious marriage.
God Bless!
TSC/tray

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Thanks everyone for your responses and all the helpful opinions and advice – I really appreciate it! [Smile]

Bob –
Yesterday you’ve asked me the following questions and I’ve promised to respond to it today:
quote:
Does this man add such irreplaceable value to your lives so you can't just backlist him ?
Also if your H was as hurt as, say, I would be by your contact would you impose NC harder ?

Bob, I see you’ve made the wrong assumption by saying that OM have a irreplaceable value in our lives. I don’t know why you’ve made this assumption because it’s simply not true and absurd! I don’t think ANY recovered/recovering FWS’s and BS’s will ever view an OP as and “irreplaceable value” – especially not people who posting on this MB website and seeking advice! [Eek!]

Bob, I’m simply in the unfortunate position of still working at the same company as OM and living in the same town than him, and both me and my H are just trying to cope with this situation the best we can under the circumstances without making a fuss… However, as I’ve read through all the responses this morning, I’ve realized that we can’t allow this situation to continue and that I need to make my boundaries clear to OM again if the opportunity presents itself.

Brownhair said: ”This present situation is giving OM the impression he CAN seek out contact.” I think this is true and the main reason I feel uneasy and concerned.

Remeber Bob, I were involved in an inappropriate friendship and beginning of an EA and although my involvement were very painfull to both me and my H, both of us however feel there is a huge difference in the damage and pain caused by someone who were involved in ‘just’ an inappropriate friendship, comparing to someone who were involved in an intense EA and/or PA. If I were involved in an intense EA/PA, both me and my H would definitely feel much stronger about OM’s attempts to contact and both of us would impose NC much harder. Yesterday evening I had a chat about this with my H again. He said that he do care about OM’s contact with me and if this situation continues, he do feel I need to take proper action and make my stance clear to OM again.

quote:
Originally posted by Stanley:
I think your H needs to be a little tough and not act like nothing happened by helping OM with his computer.

I agree with this. Both me and my H are good natured and forgiving people (especially my H) and maybe this is part of the problem. My H is a non-confrontational person who doesn’t believe in keeping grudges against people and on some level I’m the same. Although these are good qualities and something I really admire and appreciate about my H, I do see how some manupilative people like OM can misuse these qualities in both me and my H and use it to his own advantage if we are not careful.

Octobergirl, thanks for your thoughts. I know we haven't seen eye to eye in the past on certain issues but I appreciate your post. [Smile] I do realize that I should have acted stronger towards OM. I feel I’ve probably acted too friendly and politely and this is part of the reason I feel concerned. I also want to make it clear to you that the reason I acted like that is NOT because I feel it’s okay to still have contact with OM, NOT AT ALL, but because of the issues I’ve posted to Stanley and Bob in the paragraphs above.

quote:
Originally posted by cheeks:
Perhaps in his distorted way of thinking he thinks that if he gets any reaction out of you at all--even if it's "professional and appropriate" that it is lisence for him to continue such behavior. Beware!! Over time this may help your guard shrink and your committment to NC fade...

Cheeks, thanks for this. Your ‘warning’ is very valid and I’m aware how important it is to keep up my guard and take proper actions if necessary. As I’ve said earlier, me and my H had a talk yesterday evening and has decided I will make my boundaries clear again if it is necessary and if this situation continues.

To all the other members I haven’t mention in this post: committed; Kasey; brownhair; LINY; Just Learning; Toosoon & tsc (hi there old friend! [Wink] )…. I have read each and every one of your posts and each and every one of your gave me some valuable opinions and/or advice and some things to think about. Thanks again!

God bless,
Suzet

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Hi suzet !

you said Bob, I see you’ve made the wrong assumption by saying that OM have a irreplaceable value in our lives. I don’t know why you’ve made this assumption because it’s simply not true and absurd! I don’t think ANY recovered/recovering FWS’s and BS’s will ever view an OP as and “irreplaceable value” – especially not people who posting on this MB website and seeking advice!


I didn't make any assumption Suzet, I asked a question. I asked because I am trying to work out why you and yoru H still tolerate him in your lives.Maybe its hard for me because its kind of binary in my world view - if someone has an affair, the OP is a threat for life AND it is disrespectful to the BS to remain in contact with them.

If there is NO affair then different rules of contact apply - the person may or may not play a healthy part in your lives.

But if there has been an affair there is no healthy part OP can play in the lives of the FBS /FWS family IMO.

You seem to be advocating that you only almost had an EA with this man so you only nearly have to maintain NC.

I don't understand mate. No 2X4 honestly, I just don't understand.

He either poses a threat to your M or he doesn;t, I don't se grades of threat of OPs. And its clear to me as I read your scenario here that OM is quit edeliberately involving himself in your lives. That is not the action of a person who is 'over' you. It smacks of low grade stalking IMO.

All blessings to you whatever you decide.

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Bob, Bob, my friend……sigh…… [Smile] ... I have great respect & admiration for you and I don’t want to argue with you, but it seems you keep misinterpreting and misunderstanding my words…. I keep getting the feeling that you're making the wrong assumptions about how I think and feel. I hope I can clear this out.

quote:
if someone has an affair, the OP is a threat for life AND it is disrespectful to the BS to remain in contact with them.
Yes Bob, I agree with you. An OP is a threat for life and it is disrespectful towards the BS if the WS remain in contact with the OP. But Bob, my contact with OM is not deliberate and purposeful… During all these accidental contacts I have ALWAYS kept it cool and professional. I have kept my distance. In my NC letter last year I requested OM to keep his distance and don't talk with me. He is the one who violates this now and not respecting the boundaries. Bob, I just tried to handled this situation the best I could without making a fuss. As I’ve said before, unfortunately I’m in the position of still working at the same company as him. Accidental contacts between us is unavoidable. The best I can do now is following the suggestions I received on this thread and make my boundaries clear to OM again… What else do you suggest me to do? If it was possible for me to quit and find another job I would have done so a looooong time ago. Please read the thread I posted to Susan on the 1st page of this thread.

quote:
If there is NO affair then different rules of contact apply - the person may or may not play a healthy part in your lives.

But if there has been an affair there is no healthy part OP can play in the lives of the FBS /FWS family IMO.

I agree…

quote:
You seem to be advocating that you only almost had an EA with this man so you only nearly have to maintain NC.
I never meant or said this Bob… You’ve made the wrong assumption.

Suzet

[ January 18, 2005, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

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Bob, Bob, my friend……sigh…… Please don't patronise me Suzet, I deserve better than that.

Suzet I am a simple man, and I have made no assumptions but asked questions and asked for clarifcations. You jump to your own defence as if accused with everything I say.

FACT IS you and your H treat OM like a friendly-ish acquaintance ( selling him PCs, being polite when you bump into him, exchanging New years pleasantries , discussing your H employment problems etc etc.). HOW can you POSSIBLY think this is NC as defined by MB or anywhere else?

You say you handle NC violations from OM as well as you can without making a fuss. Why is not making a fuss worth tolerating NC violations ?

I make no value judgments on this, just trying to understand. You and your H must do as you think is best for you.

Suzet its probably best that I don't repond to this thread any more. I CLEARLY see half-enforced NC, a near-welcome for OM in your lives and a lot of excuses for this status quo, when you tell me clearly this is not the case.

I will only say that if OM in my situation made any approach to contact let alone new years pleasantries, court case discussions or PC purchases he would be eating his teeth tout de suite.

All blessings

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Bob, I didn’t patronise you, but I’m sorry if you perceived my words that way… It was truly not my intent. Again, I’m sorry... [Frown]

Suzet

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Suzette,

HI!!! I've missed you, ya know? I've been reading this thread and admiring you for how you've handled everything. I think you ARE doing the best you can under the circumstances. And it's astonishing to me that you are able to "reject" OM even when there has been contact. This tells ME that you have settled things in your mind. I'm happy for you! [Smile]

BOB,

I finally agree with you....you probably should not post here anymore. It looks to me like you are not at a point in YOUR recovery to respond to threads like this. I have seen you throw some mighty big 2X4's over the past week or two, at other FWW's in similar situations. And what I think is that you are taking THESE FWW's personally....as though they are a threat to you. I understand where you're coming from, but it is NOT helpful to tell them what YOU would do, because YOU are not their husbands....each situation is a little different, and I think Suzette is doing everything she can, and will take the advice she has received and use it IF it is helpful. Bob, I think you often have good advice, it's just that you seem to interject it with your personal feelings, and that is not your place. [Frown]

NOW

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Hi NotOnlyWords, it’s so nice to hear from you!!! Thanks for post and thanks for your support and encouragement! [Smile] I have often thought about you and the other members here on MB’ers while me and hubby were away on holiday! How are you???

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Suzet,

I'm doing ok....RH and I are getting closer all the time, and I feel so fortunate that he "understands" so much. I read a lot here and sometimes get so upset by what I "see" going on and I have to back off for a while. Maybe I'm not so different from Bob.....I tend to take things "personally" here sometimes, and when I see some FWW's getting 2 x 4'd, I feel it, too. Mostly it's the FWW's that have come a really long way in recovery....I just don't think they need the "derailement". There are going to be challenges on the journey, no matter how far any of us has come, because we just can't "hide" from life and things we'd rather avoid. Sometimes, I think, these situations that "pop up" are a test, and also tend to bring you closer together.... and from what I can tell, you and your hubby are really OK!!!! The two of you need to handle it the way you see fit, and as long as you are in agreement, no matter what anyone else on here says, that is your goal. I find it too confusing to listen to so many people giving their opinions....I only care about RH's anyway....he's the only one I have to worry about.

Glad to have you back!

NOW

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NOW,

Thanks, is good to be back with ‘old friends’ on MB again and I’m glad to hear you (and RH) are doing okay! From your post it’s clear that you and I think and feel the same in so many ways. I also tend to take things too ‘personally’ sometimes and then I get defensive and frustrated when I feel misunderstood or when I feel wrong assumptions about me has being made… I think this is what happened during my interactions with Bob on this thread – we both took each other’s comments ‘personally’ - and I’m sorry things turned out this way. [Frown]

quote:
There are going to be challenges on the journey, no matter how far any of us has come, because we just can't "hide" from life and things we'd rather avoid. Sometimes, I think, these situations that "pop up" are a test, and also tend to bring you closer together....
Very wise words… I agree with you! [Smile] During early withdrawal and recovery it was extremely difficult for me to work at the same company as OM. I was very frustrated about my circumstances and fruitless attempts in finding another job. In the beginning I felt fearful at work almost all the time. Just the thought of bumping into OM made me feel very anxious and stressed. But today I'm so glad to say I have overcome all that issues. I know my recovery would have been so much faster if I could just quit my job and find another one. But God allowed this “thorn” to remain in my life and today I’m a much stronger person partly because of that. We may never know all the ‘why's’ of what God allows in our lives but I believe He allows everything for a purpose. The following verse from Script (once given to me by ForeverHers) have very personal meaning for me:

"To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."

Blessings,
Suzet

[ January 18, 2005, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

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Suzet,

That was an awesome post.....I never thought about that verse quite that way, but it really rings true to me....I can relate! Anyway, thank you for sharing that with me.....it meant a lot!

Have a great day!

NOW

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