Yes, because now being the W- I can better
understand what the pain I caused must have
been like for her.
It's not about "me" but about empathy that
I would not have understood to the extent I do
now.

I've got that... you don't want the same happened to you...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
It's not about "me" but about empathy that
I would not have understood to the extent I do
now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... and empathy is not the same as truly remorse...

It's always good if we learn from our mistakes... especially if we don't repeat them...


Back to the question, apology or not...
your H might say to her your wish and see what her reaction would be...

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

It's been 3 years, let it go.

The OW in my case said the same exact thing of,
"During the A, the W was honestly
never really a thought. If I had allowed myself
to truly "think" about her- the A would have
never happened."

How the hell can the wife never be a thought? I don't get that statement, all it says is you were willing to ignore the obvious. But that's neither here nor there.

PP, you need to let it go. Maybe if you had done this maybe even a year, year and half after I might see the significance. But three years, your apology is irrelevant, it's to make YOU feel better. And your right, she probably does still love him or at least care about him. But that is to be expected, they were married, they obviously still talk so their "relationship" is at least civil.

Your apology is about you and therefore I feel it's not an apology!

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: 2B Us Again ]</small>

What have you and your H decided to do?

Pep

Pepperband- I haven't discussed it with him
yet. I will over this weekend. POJA will be
hard- he has always had problems apologizing.
Maybe you can enlighten me on something. Why
do some of the ladies feel that this apology
is all about me? Yes, I feel I did something
tremendously wrong and it has taken me a long
while to get to that point. I want (nor expect)
anything from XW. I have nothing personal to
gain by apologizing- well, maybe some sense of
having acknowledged the wrong I commited.
Why do some people here feeling I'm wanting to
do this for all the wrong reasons. If these
reasons are wrong- what would be the "right"
ones. Do you think they would feel differently
if our affair ended and we went our separate
ways as opposed to marrying. Does that make me
seem insincere?

Why don't you try asking us, the ones who think you are doing this for the wrong reasons!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whydo some of the ladies feel that this apology is all about me?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps it is the way you approached this question and how you phrased your reason for wanting to do this.???

You did not say something like: "I deeply regret EVER being the OW. I want to apologize to the XW only if it will help her heal from the harm I helped inflict on her."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have nothing personal to
gain by apologizing- well, maybe some sense of
having acknowledged the wrong I commited.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It will help YOU heal... you know it, and I know it. BUT the real question is will an apology help HER???

I donno. Neither do you. But that is the only really altruistic reason to offer an apology after this length of time.

If she appears to be happy and healed... then what is the point .... if not to help you heal?


Anywho... that's what I see.

Pep

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Because
a) I directed this email to Pepperband.
b) I have had several email conversations
with her in the past- she probably knows me
best (of the people on this board)
c) She doesn't feel the need to vent her own
pain by kicking other people- no matter how
subtle.
d) She can be objective and fair

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why do some of the ladies feel that this apology is all about me? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't speak for any lady other than myself, but . . . I think it is a couple of things. First, the length of time you let go by. It seems that now you might consider it a "safe" time to apologize. She seems to be moving on, "no harm no foul" kind of thing. Perhaps now you feel your apology might be met with something other than hostility?

The other thing, has it truly taken you 3 years to understand the damage your actions caused another human being? You posted earlier that now that you are happily married, you understand how devestating it would be to lose said happiness. Just as XW lost her happiness, family, and you are partially responsible for that.

So, by finally taking accountability for your actions, if that is what you are doing, are you trying to "ward" off the same thing happening to you? Because there is an ENTIRE website out there with women just like you were, feeling it is their right to be with a MM (and they have LOTS of reasons/excuses/justifications).

An aplogy this late in the game is almost insulting, to be honest, IMO. And it ALMOST seems as if you are trying to become involved in someone's life (again), who has chosen to move on.

She has moved on. The best gift you could give to this woman, IMO, is to follow what you know of her wishes ~ to not communicate with her. Work on you, work on your M, learn about relationships ~ you have plenty to keep yourself busy.

Peace to you, PP.

Spidey

???? We have emailed???

News to me!

Pep

Thanks Pep,
As you probably know from my past emails that
has also been my point of view. But even on
this string. I believe the first post on the
second page- there is a BS saying I should
apologize- regardless.
Just wanted you opinion.
And yes, if any contact from me would hurt her-
I would not wish to do it!
I may have done an awful thing- but that doesn't
make me an awful person.

Hi, Pink Paige.

I'm not Pepper either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , but I will say that it's good that you intend to POJA this with your H first.

Assuming your H agrees, I don't see anything wrong with your apologizing to the exW for causing her pain. As long as you aren't looking at it as asking for or expecting forgiveness. That would certainly be up to the exW to offer or not, IMO.

I think a short and earnest "I know I caused you pain, and I sincerely apoligize for that. I am sorry."...or something like that wouldn't be out of line. ExW may or may not respond in a positive manner. That's strictly up to her.

Lori

Pep,
By email- I mean posted back and forth on this
board.
Sorry if I don't have the computer lingo down
quite yet.

Hi Pink,

I'm a BS and I'd like to respond to you. First of all, I do think that you know and realize that what you did was wrong and that your H's XW was deeply hurt.

Second, I would tell you to not send an apology letter and to let it go. Let her be in peace. Going thru infidelity and divorce is a very painful thing and if the XW has now found peace and she's in a better place then let her have this peace. Believe your H when he says that she does not want to hear from you.

Personally, I would not want an apology from the OP, especially once I've moved on and had built myself a good life.

If you have a happy marriage now with your XMM then continue building on that and quit worrying about the past. Work on overcoming issues that led to his infidelity in the past so that you don't find yourself in the same shoes some day.

There is nothing that you can ever say or do that is going to take away the pain that this woman has felt. This is something that you are going to have to live with. But learn from it (as you are) and become a better person.

Good luck to you and hubby!

Kati

I don't think people are "kicking you" to vent our own pain. That is what you are reading into it.

Also, if you post something on a forum, you should really expect people to reply. I have had people jump in all the time on forums I have directed to someone, it's to be expected, and I appreciate the different views.

You don't like what some of us are saying because we don't agree with you, that is also to be expected. But maybe you should try and see where we are coming from, remember a lot of us are the BS.

We are just trying to be honest, and I'd think you would take what we have said into consideration as a BS, and not look at it as an attack on you.

Really look at what Spider Slayer said. Very good points are being made, and what most of us have been saying all along!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
Why do some people here feeling I'm wanting to
do this for all the wrong reasons.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think that your (YOUR) reasons are wrong...
you just use wrong words to explain yourself... e.g. repentance... among some other ones...

....continuing to think here....

I wouldn't mind hearing a sincere apology from the OW after 13 years and 10 years (since H's A's). I WOULD NOT want to hear a bunch of insincere make-me-feel-better junk from them, tho. Just an apology would be nice, TO ME.

TO ME. People are all so different. The exW may NOT appreciate hearing ANYTHING from you... we don't know, obviously. That's why POJA with the H would be important. He knows her better than you (or us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) and he may have a strong opinion one way or the other.

anyway....just more thoughts...

Lori

Paige...

If XOW called me to apologize at this point.... I'd wonder if she was in a 12 step program and she had reached step nine!

Have you studied the 12 steps of AA?

Even if you have not (and are not an alcoholic), I recommend you do a google search of the 12 steps and take a look at how step 9 is worded and the recommended approach. This might help you reach a decision.

Take care.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
c) She doesn't feel the need to vent her own
pain by kicking other people- no matter how
subtle.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

(... but you feel... makes me wondering, how your vent would look like if you were BS... just curious, nothing personal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

***Do you think they would feel differently
if our affair ended and we went our separate
ways as opposed to marrying.***

Of course we would. If you had ended the A and given your OM and his BW a *chance* to heal from the damage your intrusion caused, that would be one thing.

But what you are saying is "Gee, I'm real sorry I robbed that bank, but I sure am happy with all the money I got to keep." Does that sound remorseful to you?

If you are truly sorry, leave the poor woman alone. You got what you wanted -- somebody else's husband -- so go and enjoy it. Don't rub any more salt into what will always be an open wound.
Mulan