I wrote about it above- Catholic.

Did I miss something, I thought you two were already married?

Well, that was bracing! I just read your other post. You're not married to him yet.

But you're about to marry him?

My heavens.

GC

I took it as you are renewing your vows.
If you aren't married, by all means, stop the wedding while you are having these thoughts!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
<strong> In case you
have forgotten me- I am married to my XMM.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you said you were married?

Oh, sorry. Didn't make the connection..not all churches require that you be a member of THAT particular sect to married there.

OK..so I have a few questions about this, because I am trying to lay a foundation in my mind on which to build my opinion before I advise any further.

If you are a Catholic..and therefore a Christian how are you bringing resolve to the issues of

1 His unbelief. You are being yoked with an unbeliever..this is directly contrary to scripture. Was he honest with the priests that he is not a believer..or did he lie his way through it to get the desired result?

2 The adulterous nature of the marriage

3 The fact that it is his 3rd marriage

4 TPP..Do you think that maybe you have not made the right decision in this marriage? Do you believe that God smiles on it..does it have his blessing in your opinion?

If you came to the conclusion that it did not..how would you feel about it?

What leads you to believe that it might?


Noodle

We are married- it was a civil ceremony
attended by (but not perfomedby) the deacon. We could not marry
in the Catholic Church at that time. We are
now free to (annulment of 1st marriage, 2nd (one
involving the A) was already declared invalid,
much counseling and much confession.
This weekend we are re-marrying in the Catholic
Church- sorry for the confusion.

Got your email addy Pink.

Don't call off your church wedding. You have either been civicly (sp) or common law married all this time. Don't go down the path of destruction because of a mistake you made in the past. This makes no sense.

YOU ARE NOT SOILED! You made a mistake in judgement as did all the WS on this board.

I'll email you after the festivities this weekend when things calm down.

You are getting responses from the best here.


Gray, thanks for the compliment!

1 His unbelief. You are being yoked with an unbeliever..this is directly contrary to scripture. Was he honest with the priests that he is not a believer..or did he lie his way through it to get the desired result?

Yes he knows- the church laws have changed greatly- all he needs to acknowledge is respect
for my beliefs and they encourage him to raise
any children we have Catholic. This is not a
problem for him. It should be noted that I am
40, he is 58.

2 The adulterous nature of the marriage

Yes, it is a sin- something we both needed to
come clean about and ask for forgiveness through
confession. This was performed. Much of the
counseling we received was about this.

3 The fact that it is his 3rd marriage

Yes, also addressed in counseling and heavy
questioning by tribunal in granting of annulment.
They wanted to make sure he was 100% on
board with the commitment required. He made one
mistake during his 2nd marriage with me. He
has shown himself to be honest in this respect.

4 TPP..Do you think that maybe you have not made the right decision in this marriage? Do you believe that God smiles on it..does it have his blessing in your opinion?

Yes, I believe I made the right decision. My fear
in part- is I don't know if God smiles on this.
I try to remind myself that he loves and wants
the best for me and forgives sin and blesses
those that seek with true heart his blessings

TPP,

With a heavy heart I will tell you, that I think you are making a mistake..and that somewhere inside..I think you know it.

I think that it is significant that you came here today..and I think that it is significant that we "met" because I have a strong sense that I "should" tell you what I am about to say even though..to be really honest..I don't want to. I'd rather disregard your post or just give you "best of luck" responses.

I know that you have said that God wants what is best for you..and I agree with this completely..but I really believe that you are trying to make what you want be what is best for you..and in this instance I do not think that this is so. I think that you are not really listening..and are hiding behind being able to juuuust scootch by church law rather than saying..what can be ..really..celebrated? What can we paint on the horizon with eagerness and integrity? I think that you and I both know that this marriage is NOT a cause for celebration..and..TPP..I think you are cheating yourself out of something else because you are afraid to let this go. I think that there is something worth celebrating waiting for you..and with this action you may be choosing not to take it.

I think a lot of the "soiled" feelings come from the strong likelyhood that you are still resisting Gods will and insisting on your own will being done. This is a clear indication that true repentance has not occurred..only feelings of guilt that you want to be rid of without actually turning away from what you have done.

And..and I think you will regret this. As time goes by, I really think that you will look back on this and wish that you had chosen differently.

I think that GC was quite astute in his analogy..that you stole a pile of gold..and that you felt so bad that you promised never to do it again..and the other person now doesn't want it back..so what is a woman to do with all of this wealth?....and in this case..I think the answer is to step away from it also and regain your honor in this world. Then..go and apologise to his wife and truly wash your hands of this sickness.

I am so sorry that I just can not support you in making a choice that I really believe will bring further destruction into your life..and into your faith.

I will leave your thread..as this is very unsolicited and surely most unwelcome..but I would not be able to sleep tonight if I told you differently or did not speak at all.

You do have my best wishes in life

Noodle

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> follow through with your Catholic ceremony as planned ... it is obviously very important to you. You have earned this following the church's prescribed steps to reconciliation.

I think your H should put the *kabosh* on his XW's phone call updates. I do not see how this continued contact between them benefits YOUR marriage or her FUTURE marriage .(since there are no children involved)

If you think you "owe it to XW" .... I beg to differ. If it makes you uncomfortable (it would me) then it needs to be addressed as a problem and work toward an agreeable solution with your H.

Since you asked <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep

I have been following this thread since the beginning with interest and pink I have posted to you long ago when you first came here.I still stand by my feeling that your relationship was born out of the pain and suffering of other's and it was a sin.Time does not erase this and just because the ex W now(according to you but who really knows)is supposedly going to get remarried and is so "happy" doesn't give you the green light to go ahead with this next marriage.

I am sorry, I know you will probably disagree with this as will other's here but I truly do not believe a marriage should be taking place between you two.Some say let bygones be bygones and everyone has "moved on" anyway so let's all just forget what happened but there will always be a layer of hypocrsiy to whatever you and this man,already married twice,will try to achieve.You help to destroy one marriage in order to obtain your own.You destroy vows of one marriage in order to obtain the same.You covet/take what was not yours and yet want the same that you robbed another woman of.You both are trying to annul and invalidate the very same that you want to have for yourself:marriage.I find this horrible.

The only way I see you being clear of sin in a relationship is to be with another man who was not a co-conspirator in adultery.He("fiance") is trustworthy to you? What makes you think the third time is the charm? Why is he still talking to his ex wife? Why is she calling if she is so happyily engaged elswhere? They have no children correct? He's already begun with questionable behavior and who knows if it is appropriate.Afterall,some men and women do stay in touch after a D from time to time but many don't.How can you trust this man who was untrustworthy? Trust is earned and you both have not been together long enough to have that solid foundation and it's flawed anyway by the past.He never worked on his previous marriage,he had an affair with you,and was divorced months later.You expect to have children with this man who is nearly 60 years old? How will that fair for the/any children? I see a lot of work trying to go into an already faulted beginning,in many ways.

I don't mean to come across as mean but I have very strong feelings about this kind of situation and I have to admit there aren't many like you actually here talking about it.We spend so much time here talking about how bad adultery is and how marriages born from affairs are statistically failed ones in most cases,that they are born from pain and suffering and selfishness and to hear some people here forgetting that and actually supporting you in this new endeavor upsets me,still.Asking for forgiveness from God is your own business and receiving it is God's will,not mine,but like many other scenarios,I don't see an honest,loving,respectful and decent beginning here.It truly makes me curious why you came back after all this time asking about the apology.I too think that it's to ease a guilty soul as you try to make a go of this new attempted marriage.Maybe I am wrong but things you have said in the past and here on this thread make me wonder.

Just my opinion here.

O

O~~~

They've been legally married for awhile already. She is talking about a church ceremony, but they ARE married.

Are you suggesting they should divorce? .... Or should they attempt to have a miserable life together as their punishment???

Pep

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Ugh.I thought they weren't LEGALLY yet? I must have misread something.I have to go back now and reread.I thought she is getting married THIS weekend no?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> Ugh.I thought they weren't LEGALLY yet? I must have misread something.I have to go back now and reread.I thought she is getting married THIS weekend no? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES they are! ... they are celebrating in the Church this weekend ... but they have been legally married for (? can't remember exactly ?) somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 years or so.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ok,Civil ceremony already done.CHURCH ceremony this weekend.

I don't know Pep.I think this came up before with someone else and not a few of the people here were suggesting D.Personally,I just give my opinions and that's all I can do.People are going to do what they want despite that.I don't think at this point divorcing or staying together much matters.I just would not be in pinks position.It is not the way I would begin a marriage and even though she already is,I don't have hope or support for it.The way in which the marriage was obtained is not appropriate to me.I wouldn't want to live with that in my heart and soul,no matter how many people I asked forgiveness from or even God.So they can try to make it the best MB marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> they want but to me it will always be stained.

O~~~~

It took me awhile to wrap my mind around this situation as well.

What I finally arrived at was this

I take any emotional feelings about their marriage out of the equation.

I accept the FACT that theirs is indeed a marriage.

I stop judging their marriage on anything but where they are right now.

That's how I needed to approach this in order to arrive in a mental space where I could be helpful to her.

In fact, I have used this thinking model before on MB, but in different circumstances. There are other legal marriages on MB that I emotionally detest for other reasons. But If I am to be helpful, I have to take myself out of my feelings and simply adjust my thoughts and my advice to the facts at hand.

Pep

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
but to me it will always be stained. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like my marriage is stained by infidelity? maybe...

This serves the greater good how? To what benifit?

Pep

I see how you feel but I feel differently.Yes they may be married already.But,to me the sanctity of marriage means so much to me that to consider beginning in a relationship with someone who most obviously did and does not hold this(based on what I am hearing) as close to his heart or believe in I just have a hard time with considering.Otherwise why is he on his third marriage now,why did he commit adultery,a sin in the Catholic/christian churches,not work on his previous marriage or at least this last one before he had the affair,and now portend to "believe" in it again by going down the asile one more time.Just what DOES this man think about marriage I wonder?

You say you don't judge their marriage but where they are now but I have a problem with that because to me that can lead us to accept behaviors that shouldn't be acceptable in this society."judging" a marriage as is isn't always the best indicator of what will be.We can take the emotion out and deal with what is but marriage has a lot of emotion.It's undeniable.

I am not really sure what it is exactly pink wants from us.She admits to being a TOW member and that too bother's me.I just refuse,refuse to accept this on any level.I will not ever give it credence,marriage license or not.It's the height of hypocrisy about a very sentimental and holy act/joining.I will feel the same way 20 years from now.People around me might change and be accepting but I will never allow myself that.Of all the beautiful things in marriage I believe in and upheld,marriage and reltaionships born in the milieu of adultery have no place being IMO.

In stained I meant that if your FWH left you pep and married the OW.Stained by all the pain and suffering of the adultery which destroyed the marriage and family.Your marriage and family was saved and you have recovery.I am not talking about that.

Pinks original question was about an apology.Aside from it being a questionable reason to be here in my mind,I don't feel that an apology would be welcomed had I been the exW.I would not want to hear one word from this woman."I just called/e-mailed to say I am sorry about all I have done to you but by the way,I am having a grand time being your exH's new wife".Argh.Not that she would actually say this but the painful idea is right there.That's how I would take it anyway.

O

edited to add: if you want to continue this discussion on another thread,that would be ok with me but I feel funny about being here now.This thread was addressed to you so I feel I should get off.

<small>[ January 28, 2005, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Wow...I love it when a debate heats up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Everyone has such good points.

I agree with Pep in that you have to take the emotional reaction out of it, I said in a previous post, her presence here is a trigger for a lot of people...and to some degree it is to me.

I mean, hind sight is 20/20, I'm sure that Pink probably doesn't think that her marriage occurred under an ideal set of circumstances.

I'm sure she knows that the odds of the marriage surviving are not in her favor, and yet, she is married, and has made the steps to be forgiven by God....I really don't know what more you can ask of the woman.

I don't know, but I can honestly say that I don't think an apology will benefit the XW...I really don't. I think it will send her world, she just started calming down, back into upheaval.....it's going to dredge up stuff that she thought she buried....and I dunno, it may cause her engagement to de-rail, the woman is going to be FURIOUS, if that happens, as the saying goes "Screw me once shame on me, screw me twice...shame on you".

Don't add insult to injury Pink.

Well that's my .02, LOL, take it for what it's worth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-Caren