<small>[ January 31, 2005, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

I have 2 things to say ....

Number one.... ((((( Penny ))))) .... I am so saddened by this turn of events. NOT the ONS as much as the abuse your family has endured. To me, this is the most troubling news. That abusive sort of behavior is more ingrained and hardwired than the silly events that can lead up to a ONS.

Number two.... ((((( Cerri ))))) .... Only a really dumb man would do to "The Cerri" something as silly as a ONS. Your H Steve, knows firsthand of "The Cerri" , and the determination she is capable of ....and Pep, for one, would question his sanity for waving this ONS in front of "The Cerri's" nose. "The Cerri" is not some schlep who is going to avoid conflict and be afraid that her wandering husband might "get mad" if she exposes, or that exposure might "push him into OW's arms" .... HE KNOWS YOU ... and he did this anyway ???? Is he crazy???

Support and encouragement and prayers sent for Penny and Cerri.

Pep

<small>[ January 30, 2005, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

{{{cerri}}}}

I'm so sorry. Be strong!!!

<small>[ January 30, 2005, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: TreeReich* ]</small>

I understand this is an exposure, pro or contra is individual opinion, and I don't know more then I've read on this thread, but after reading this

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he's cheated on three wives, hired hookers, hung out at strip clubs, kicked his wife and baby daughter out of the house so he could move his affair partner in, and he's out of our home now because of his severe verbal abuse of me and the kids.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really don't understand why you are so shocked??

The more we expect the more we can be disappointed... and I just don't get why to expect so much in these cases...

And, what are you going to do now?

If this is your 'professional' challenge to heal him, I can get that,
But not if it's your personal challenge... at least not if these 'repeats' makes you so... as you feel now...

Cerri,
Does that mean you're not exposing this to everyone you all know personally?

I think a primary condition needs to be that ALL people who know know Steve need to know. That's a way of enlisting others help.

I was listening to talk radio. A man called in and admitted how he'd had a consentual affair with a 16 year old and had done 3 years for statuatory rape.

Everyone he knew, he told about the affair. It was his way of preventing the situation from ever happening again.

I think Steve needs to be willing to do this.

(((((((((Penny))))))))))

You were the first coach I called when I confessed my A to my H. You were so very helpful, but my H wanted a 'face-to-face' counselor, and so you and I parted ways. You were so kind to have followed up with me via e-mail afterward.

Oddly enough, even though he wanted a f2f counselor, he ended up going for one month and then quitting. My point is basically that it was a control tactic.

It has taken me a while to recognize it, but my H also verbally and emotionally abused me. And his reactions toward me were more about control than anything else.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is not about sex. It is about the pattern of abuse that affects not only me but the children in this family - his and mine. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've answered your own question here, my dear friend. I'm certain you are aware that abuse is about control and retaliation. His escapade was nothing more than his reaction to losing control of the M (with you standing up to the abuse, and having him leave the house), and retaliation to have you feel the 'hurt' he was feeling.

My H used to degrade me before my A - he felt badly about himself, and so would degrade me so that he would feel better - mainly by lowering me to his level. After my A, he felt deeply hurt (as would anybody), and the verbal and emotional assaults became unbearable. It was about hurting me like I hurt him.

I see the same reactive pattern in your H. And I commend you for following through on your boundaries. I think what some people are forgetting here is the abusive aspect. To back down even 1% on your boundaries would be giving the intonation that he is able to 'control' your actions to a certain extent. And that would perpetuate his abusive nature.

I sympathize so much with you. And even though I cannot give any advice (as my M is ending, and aside from disallowing the abuse, it is in his court to address the underlying tendencies), I feel such great sadness in you. But also such strength.....and that is encouraging.

Thinking of you, and wishing you to find some peace in this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Hell hath no fury like a goddess scorned. The Mor-Rioghan is out in full force today, isn't she?

I am so sorry this happened to you. But I am wondering -- with the description you gave us of his past and present actions, how can you consider "leaving the door open" for eventually reparing the marriage???

I understand how difficult it is to break that bond. It's like sawing through your own arm. But I really am having trouble understanding how you could think of having this man back in your life and your children's lives.

Also: I would suggest that you change the topic of your post to something less shocking and sordid. Not that his actions are not both; it's just that, as you said, it's not about the sex. It's about his continued abuse and intentional cruelty.

Frankly, when I first saw the subject line I thought somebody was trolling the site. You deserve better.

It could be that you are just in shock right now, and when the pain eases somewhat you will just coldly tell him "Shame on your beard!"* and close the door in his face.

Do go and eat a little something, and drink some hot tea. Take care of yourself and thank you for helping us by sharing your experience.
Mulan

*An old Irish insult, said by a woman to her husband when he had done something particularly stupid and/or humiliating. It really means "Shame on your manhood."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ January 30, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

Ok, a part is answered.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
I'm leaving the door open for the marriage but there are no guarantees.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The three before and the forth? now - why would he change...


I am deeply convinced that, at the end, we get what we allow/deserve, and so far we are not surprised/shocked/shattered with outcome we might be fine... Acceptance...
For we choose it...
But not the children... and not for the children...

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

Penny,

Whew....this took my breath away. I haven't had time to read all the posts - so I may be repeating others, but.....He needs serious IC...

I'm so speechless that I'm not going to babble...I'm not going to babble....

Prayers to you, your H and the kids.

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

Cerri,

I don't know if I can offer you much in the way of solace but to say the following. Dr David Viscott once said that part of any pathological relationship is not only summarized in the role of the "sick" partner. He states that the healthy partner is partly responsible for that pathology because they put their own needs into the mix and deepen that pathology by having that need.

Your need to have your husband fill the role of a husband & father, makes him worse. Not only is he incapable of a loving, stable relationship, your expectation and demands for him to do so, deepen his gross personality defect. Here is a man that(in the way you and I view love) doesn't love you, won't love you and can not love you. You need to seperate from him. Often getting rid of a negative in your life is as healthy as obtaining something positive.

In a way his actions can be interpreted as "get away from me so that I can't hurt you anymore".

It might be wise to listen to his message.

Forgive him and let him go.

<small>[ January 30, 2005, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]</small>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so sorry. Take care of you and the kids first. Breathe and breathe again. That's what you told me.

I'm aching and mad and sad for you. You are doing EVERYTHING right.

PS: We can resume whenever you feel right about it. I'll wait to hear from you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

Just as an aside....Last year at the Smart Marriage conference, I was there, and heard with my own little ears, and in the presence of Steve....Penny describe in detail (and living color) what exposure would look like if there was ever another A. There was no question that her husband took her seriously. So, this is far from a surprise for anyone...especially her husband. I am sorry beyond belief that she has had to follow through with this plan....but far sorrier that it was necessary at all because of the selfish and thoughtless acts of her husband. It is an awful boundary to feel compelled to defend....and my heart goes out to anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Starfish,

Thank you and the others for taking such good care of Penny during this....Her bravery is mind-boggling. Makes me want to get on a plane to hug her personally. That inner trembling/hands shaking takes so long to go away.

I'm glad she's not alone...Sheesh, how many of us are there??? Penny and a few hundred??? of her friends wanting to ride this out with her, hold her hand - support her all the way!

I love these people!!

<small>[ January 30, 2005, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: CSue ]</small>

Cerri - Do some normal family things and get some sleep. The protection plan will help you make decisions - MUCH LATER. It is too soon to figure everything out. We will support you.

Okay, I understand the concern that the posters have for Cerri's well being, but how can you question her decisions?

She is obviously quite versed in this particular subject, I believe that she knows what she's doing and if she is willing and able to repair her marriage, then she should.

We don't have to live with her husband, we don't interact with him on a daily basis, we can only know him from what we read about him. I assume he is multi-faceted person, that has good qualities as well as bad.

I think that these decisions should be left up to Cerri, as friends we should offer support without giving advice and support whatever she decides, then as friends that decision should have your unwaivering support.

I know that is one of the main reasons I come to the MB boards, I can put my feelings out here, without being judged....it's something that I can't get anywhere else, people in my real life are judgemental because they don't wish to see me get hurt again, I understand this, but it doesn't mean I want their unsolicited advice.

So, Cerri, although we have just met, I offer you my support.

-Caren