EXPOSURE!! CERRI'S HUSBAND***** ANOTHER WOMAN

This is the first of my exposure efforts. My husband was asked to leave our home on January 10 after a verbal assault on my children. The verbal abuse in our home had escalated over the previous months and this was the last straw.

In the first couple of days that he was out he searched on roommatelocator.com and found a woman who was looking for a male roommate. When he called her she invited him to come over and bring a bottle of wine.

Steve has, in the past, visited prostitutes, had affairs, and alcohol is the identified substance of choice with which he gives himself permission to cheat.

He tried to tell me, when I confronted him about the purchase, that he had only visited with her for a couple of hours. I asked for her number and he "didn't have it." I gave him the option to drive to work to get it (at 11pm) or have me expose all of his sordid past to his boss on Monday morning.

He suddenly "remembered" that I could find her on the same site.

I asked him repeatedly if he had sex with her and he denied it over and over again. Even when I had her number and put him on hold to call her.

She confirmed that he did come there, that they shared a bottle of wine (that he bought) and that they HAD SEX!

I have said since d-day 1 that if he cheated on me again I would expose to everyone I know.

SO HERE IS MY EXPOSURE

My husband

CHEATED ON ME WITH A *******STRANGER THAT HE ONLY KNEW FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS.

[ January 30, 2005, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

Oh, no. Let me know if there's anything I can do.

When I read this subject, I thought... it cannot be.

GC

I am so sorry that this has happened to you again. Yet, I am so proud of you for setting your boundaries and not yielding on them!! You are a strong, intelligent and capable woman. Take care of you and of those beautiful kids!

Words are inadequate, Cerri.

I'm sorry, you're sorry..maybe even he is sorry..the whole world is sorry as ****..but it doesn't really fix anything does it?

Exposure aside..have you previously laid out any concrete plans for this possible eventuality?

Noodle

[ January 30, 2005, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

My dear Cerri,

My heart goes out to you. Dealing with this on such a personal and professional level does not make it less painful.

You are a great coach and know you need to use the skills and tools you have for your family. Your WS is just that and he knows it. The how and why of a WS is the illogic of the world. I know you are hurting but use your skills.....for you and your family. Vent here, reverse babble, plan B as needed, etc. You know the ropes.

Let us know how we can help. You got my addy right? Let me know. I would consider it a pleasure to help out what I can.

MB hugz for you and your family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BTW, that bottle of wine was probably a bad year. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Ws' have no taste and OWs stink. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Aloha,
L.

cerri,

Sorry to hear this. Let me know if you need my help, you know how to reach me.

-rh-

cerri - Sorry to hear this. Yep, we live in a very imperfect world. It is very painful to go through this and I am thinking about you and your family.

[ January 31, 2005, 03:40 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Just wanted to add my name to the list of those offering thoughts and prayers.

I am so sorry.....

Penny, I am SO sorry, my heart just fell when i read this. {{{{Penny}}}} I hope you're not alone right now and thank God you do have so much support to draw from. After everything you've done geez.....I am just sitting here with tears running down my face. I wish it wasn't true. I just don't know what to say, what a blow. Take very good care of yourself, you and the kids are in our prayers. KB

[ January 31, 2005, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri,

I know how upsetting this is for you right now but do you think it wise to leave his name there? Exposure has it's point of reason right?

Just a suggestion.

take care,
L.

[ January 30, 2005, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]

[ January 31, 2005, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Besides, I'm following my teacher's advice to "Put it on the evening news."

Cerri - Hang in there. We are here for you. Your story is quite depressing, but I'm glad that you are sticking to your boundries.

cerri,
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
((((((hugs!)))))

Not posting much these days, but after seeing this one, I just wanted to let you know that you are WORTHY.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

[ January 31, 2005, 03:36 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Hi Cerri!!

I just happened to be on the board tonight & saw this. I am very sorry. Feel free to let me know if you need anything from the Lone Star State.

[ January 31, 2005, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cerri:
As a hostile act of violence toward me. And that's the part I just can't comprehend. This is the man who told me on the phone tonight that he loves me <more vomit> and that he'd really like to find a way to recover.<hr /></blockquote>I think that is not about you so much. He definitly has issues such as personalities flaw.

jmho

If you are really done ... exposure serve no purpose for your M. I would edit the detail out.

again jmho

-rh-

Cerri-

Hi, I'm Caren...we haven't met before today, I wish it were under better circumstances.

I just wanted to let you know I'm sorry for your pain, and that you are in my prayers.

-Caren

[ January 31, 2005, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

((((Penny))))

I've been a lurker here for quite a long time now and have kept up with alot of the folks here.

You are a very beautiful woman, inside and out. I am sooo sorry your husband did this to you. Is he in the habit of sabotaging things? Sheesh! I'm so, so sorry your going through this ****ola.

Hugs and prayers to you and your family.

*MochaMe*

[ January 30, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

[ January 31, 2005, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

You are a very strong woman, you have survived many past hurts, you will survive this one. Plus this time you many countless freinds that will be here for you.

-rh-

[ January 31, 2005, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

[ January 31, 2005, 03:40 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Hey Cerri - I'm so sorry that you're going through this again... I can only imagin the pain that you're feeling right now. I'm praying for you and your children.

Semper Fi,
RIF

Dear Cerri,

I'm so sorry you are going through this <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> When I read this I just wanted to offer my support - you've helped so many people here and you are very good at what you do.

I am glad this is a deal-breaker for you because after everything you've been through, IMHO, you don't need to put yourself through any more. If you do, you have to ask yourself why you keep trying with someone who treats you like this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

From what you say of his past history and the continuing verbal abuse, it doesn't look to me like he is on the way to reforming his life and his outlook on others, even if he is in counselling, says he loves you, or says he is willing to do MC.....

What is clear is that he has a compulsion to test the limits by breaking them....

Abusive people are people who need to be in control ALL the time....by being abusive, they get a sense of power, and they feel they are in control...and when they are "nice", they are not "nice" in the same way that non-abusive people are - being "nice" is a way of keeping you sucked in, as you put it - its the flip side of the abuse, and its there to keep you in and under their control...

What he just did is him testing your deal-breaker to see if he can get away with it...and if you let him get away with it by attempting recovery yet again....you will have demonstrated to him that he can still control you....

IMHO, exposure, while it may be useful for punishing him, and helping him realize that there are consequences to breaking the limits, it will not bring the marriage back.....because it is over.

When its over, its over. A deal-breaker is a deal-breaker, or it has no purpose.

My heart is breaking for you because I can hear your heart breaking here, but after the initial anger and shock, this is really about you and what you want for your life and your children and what you want to live with...not about him.

(((((cerri)))))

LIR

I dont have much I can say other than I'm very sorry he has hurt you and your children, again.
That what astounds me..again... I think I'd rather jump off a bridge than cause my H and kids any more pain than I have done so far.
I find it hard to understand that he gets so far into recovery and does it all over again.

Surely he must now understand he has some real behavioural issues and would want to go to any length to get it treated???

I guess it will have to be a deal breaker condition for you if you decide to try & recover the M...but here I am teaching you to suck eggs... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You and your kids and even your Steve in my prayers

Cerri

I'm so shocked, and so sorry. You've done so much to help others, this is deeply unfair.

But I'm glad to see you enforce your boundaries - and demonstrate to us what boundaries mean. Even in your pain, you're helping us.

It seems clear that he did what he did out of anger at your boundary enforcement - it was a way of making you suffer for throwing him out, and he knew you would find out. This is what stops so many of us from enforcing boundaries - the dread that the kick-back will hurt us and force us to make a decision that we don't think we have the courage for. You're showing us that we CAN live with the consequences of our consequences.

My prayers are with you. {{{Cerri}}}

TogetherAlone

cerri, very sorry to read about this.

I think it's hard for anyone to really believe that the person we love most in the word can perform such a deliberate act, designed specifically to hurt us. It's something that we (I) just can't understand. His version of control and probably thinking, "yeah, I know what she said about it being a dealbreaker, but she can't/won't leave and I can do what I want." I don't know if this describes your husband, but sometimes it is not enough for people to have control--but they also feel the need to constantly exert and show displays of this control and the only way they feel safe doing that is by hurting others. I would say your h displays this through his verbal abuse and acts like the ONS.

This is so sad for everyone involved. You and your children will be in my thoughts, cerri.

aislinn (formerly maddyk--still maddyk at symc)

Oh Cerri, I am so sorry this has happened to you again. How awful. This is always something we dread happening especially when we are pretty sure that they 'got it' 'last time'. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw your post and had to take a double take at the date.

[ January 31, 2005, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri

We haven't spoken much, but your contributions have been amongst those I STUDIED not read when I was learning about the demon of infidelity that attacked our lives six months ago.

It is easy to believe when reading SYMC, the great Harley books, Torn asunder, Monogamy myth etc etc that keeping somebody faithful and happy by meeting their ENs, filling their love bank and avoiding lovebusters is a mechanical certainty.

Your horrible situation seems to demonstrate that while MB principles can work for normally reasonable people who have been drawn into an affair, some people are not only too self-serving to respond to such efforts but in fact have personalities that allow them to actively INFLICT the pain of infidelity on others as a certain heart-piercing weapon.

Behaviour such as you describe in your WH appears to me to go far beyond what MB was designed to deal with. His infidelities seem to be a symptom of a serious set of personality issues rather than anomalies.

I cannot imagine what makes a man verbally abuse his children and offer violence within his home, other than deep rooted malevolence and spite.

I would never offer advice to one such as you cerri, but if a dog kept biting ME deliberately and barking at my kids ain't no way that hound is back in MY house. EVER.Not as a punishment but as perpetual protection for myself and my kids.

All God's blessings Cerri. You will be fine.

((((((((PENNY)))))))

do what you need to do to be safe with your children. bob's ending paragraph is right on...

I'm sorry for you and your children.

Doesn't he know what you do for a living? The advice you surely give?

(((((Penny)))))

Cerri - suffice it to say that we know the pain and anger that you are feeling...and you know that we do.

Suffice it to say that only YOU know all the dynamics of your marriage and only you know your Boundaries and the attendant consequences that go with a violation of those Boundaries.

If you are FIRM that the marriage is over, then a public announcement of the issue is spiteful and mean. Simply "get on with the ending" and go your separate ways. The purpose of exposure, as you know, is NOT to punish the offender. It is to destablize the affair and open the door to recovery efforts. If you've negated recovery as an option, then don't be seen as a "mean and spiteful bit@h" or "just another emotional woman." Simply DO what is necessary. Those who have a legitimate "need to know" can be told the circumstances, for the rest, it's none of their business.

It would seem that at least a separation is in order. You need time to decide on your PERMANENT course of action, and you need time to get past the initial flood of anger to be able to think clearly and make firm decisions. If the decision turns out be to continue recovery efforts despite this major detour, then remember the phrase "a lawyer who has himself as a client has a fool for a client." If the decision is to divorce and "move on," know that not all marriages are salvagable because it DOES take two people working at it to make it work.

Here is where I bring up a relationship with Christ. If you'd prefer not to discuss this, please say so and I'll not bring it up again.

Do either of you consider yourselves to be "born-again" Christians? Until that question is answered, I'll withhold furhter comment.

Cerri, know that we'd all like to hold you in our arms and just hug you and let you know that tomorrow WILL be a better day.

God bless.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />For a couple hours of flirting and a few minutes of pleasure you throw away a marriage you claim means more to you than anything else and you bring certain exposure on an enormous scale? It doesn't make sense.

Except --

As a hostile act of violence toward me. And that's the part I just can't comprehend. <hr /></blockquote>Penny...

It is soo much more about HIM than it is about you. Steve has some problems he has never conquered. He is someone who fills his life with an abusive need to control, with booze to allow him to violate his own boundaries, with cheap sex to fill a hole in his soul. Sure, he may have been mad at you, but this is so much more. This is a man that needs to do some serious work on himself.

It is not about you.

Hugs--

Kathi

Cerri --
You're going to need all the love and support we can offer. I believe the Forum rules here are that giving a person's full name will result in removal from the board, so expose on the evening news if you want but don't cut off one source of support by broadcasting on MB.

Like lemonman, you are following MB principles to give your M all you can but also recognize that marriage is about mutual care, not staying no matter what.

Hugs --
Cherished

[ January 31, 2005, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri,
My H is now getting a front-row seat in the dissolution of a M. His boss's husband left her, and they are going through a divorce. He was telling me that she was popping pills and there were closed doors and she seemed very distraught. A week ago, she took a medical leave because she had a nervous breakdown.

When my H's affair came out, I think I may have been close. My exposure included going to the woman's house, in a nice part of Minneapolis, at 3 in the morning, going into her car and kicking around the car seat, and yelling "Sophia ... is a whore" at the top of my lungs.

Not my finest moment.

The person who asked if you were a born-again Christian was trying to help. Your reply concerns me. This is a great forum for people in meltdown -- I was up the night lordlady decided to file -- but can you make sure of two things:
- your kids are OK - maybe you can get someone to watch them, and
- you don't do anything which is irrevocable -- not your husband, YOU

A week after the A came out, I was at my sister's house in California, and my 3 year old was swimming in the pool. I was holding the baby. Suddenly, I realized that she had been yelling "Help" and there was silence. I ran up and pulled her, still, out of the water. She's eating breakfast right now, but she remembers...

Cherished

Cerri,

I read this with incredible sadness, because like the others on this board I look up to you in your wisdom and compassion, reading everything I can find that you write.

Being in love with a troubled man is among the most painful lessons we are given as women in this life, I think. I know that pain.

And I am so sorry.

[ January 31, 2005, 03:36 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

[ January 31, 2005, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

All right I'm gonna play Cherri on this board...

first off...
you gotta take care of you....
while I realize this has your head spinning and your hands shaking...
you gotta take care of you..

make sure you are drinking fluids...
eat something high protein...a little bit here an there at a time...

put the music on that soothes your soul...
pray whatever pray Wiccan pricesses pray..
seek serenity...

no more
no more conversations with hubby right now...
there is no point really

not right now..

what I am telling you is what I hope you would tell me...

go protective....

posting your exposure is going to bring out a lot of emotions from others on this board...which is fine...
just be wary of the emotional toll for you...
don't over spend ...

ARK who is so very sorry that this happened...

[ January 31, 2005, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Penny,
I am so sorry to hear this. You are a wonderful person and you know you have everyone's support.
You are in my thoughts and prayers

Enchanted

[ January 31, 2005, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

I know, I've been all through your site. Shortly after I found MB posters mentioned symc and I added it to my study list. I think I've learned alot in the past nine months... but this, to me is just boyond belief.

Don't get me wrong. All A's are bad.

This one seems to sink to a new level of stupidity.

My thoughts are with you, Penny.

WAT

cerri,

You are letting your emotions drive you rather than your knowledge and sense of dignity. I agree with others that have suggested that you edit the details of your supposed exposure. If divorce is the course you will take then exposure of this sort a mute point. Instead it is vindictive.

I also realize that you need to vent your anger and frustration over this matter but I don't believe that plastering obscenities all over the MB board has ever been your style. I noticed that you did not plaster the word **** all over your website. Why is MB different?

Your opinion of MB is evident in that you are using it at the moment for the sole purpose of venting in such a manner that you do not tolerate on SYMC.

I cannot say that I am surprised by your H's actions, considering his history. I am more surprised at your reaction, especially considering your resume.

[ January 30, 2005, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

Thanks WAT. It means a lot.

C

Cerri:

We know that you 'know' you'll find healing. We know that you 'know' you are doing the right things to protect your family. But just the same we feel for what you're feeling. No book, no board can ever explain to the heart why someone as deserving and valuable as you has to have this experience.

My prayer for you is that soon you truly feel what you already know, that you will have all the peace, happiness, love, and yes, respect you deserve.

Until such time hang with us while you hang in there. We're holding you up. We can do no less

{{{Cerri}}}

Cerri,
I thought you were being flippant when you said, " I'm not sure what Steve identifies as - a non demoninational farmer would be closest." In the first email, you said he worked at somewhere in Chaska, and it would be unusual that a wife would not be sure of her husband's religion. If you were not being flippant, I'm glad. Reading this through the filter of my own experience, I am concerned that you could do something irrevocable.
Cherished

[ January 30, 2005, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Cerri-

For what it's worth, I think you are completely justified in putting your H's info on this board. I understand your motivation. People questioned my exposure method also.....I seriously would have rented a billboard if I could've afforded it.

-Caren

[ January 31, 2005, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri --
The point here, at least for me, is not your or your husband's religious beliefs. It's whether or not you are in the midst of a nervous breakdown, and if you are, can you make sure that you and your children are safe physically?

I almost got sideswiped with all four kids in the car four days after the A was exposed. I pulled out of a side street in front of another car. Again, I look back and think I couldn't handle anything at that point, not even driving. I made the wise decision to clear out, and my sister took me and our two pre-schoolers for a week.

The emotional trauma will lessen with time. This may well be the end period of the marriage but it is not the end of your life or the life of the children.

Cherished

Why isn't it on your web site?

cerri: I've never posted to you, but I've seen where you've helped so many. May you get the help and support you need. Your family will be in my prayers!

{{{{{cerri}}}}}

Cerri,
I have not ever posted to you before, but I did join **edit** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I am sorry for everything that you are going through right now.
I have had evil thoughts about my WH and OW at times. I have pictures of her and her vechile, and I thought about posting them with wanted signs, etc. BUT, I realize that those things would have been done out of anger. Is that okay? Maybe yes, maybe no. The answer for me was NO, for the simple fact that one day, I will more then likely be faced with a custody battle. I don't want my WH to have anything against me that proves that I made irrational decisions when I am using that method against him. For ME that was my inspiration to keep my anger inside, and on this board (well 90% of the time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I don't think the exposure is bad, for me it was just something I had to REALLY think about before I did it.
I have just rambled on and on....I am sorry.
I do wish the best for you and your children.
Danielle

i think what alot of people are missing here is she stated very clearly(or so it seems) that this would happen if he did it again. he knew it and agreed. she is following through on what she said she would. boundries.....and consequences for crossing them. i dont think she is doing it maliciously-----come on, with her experience she could come up with way better than this if it was just malicious.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

is there hurt and pain...heck yeah...but i dont think this is pure vendetta.....

I have all of the OW's personal information, right down to her SS#, and it's everything I can do not to write it on a whole pack of post it notes and stick them all over the place....public library by the computers...etc.

I haven't done it, but I think about it all the time, and I'm just keeping it on the back burner, she really has no idea who she's dealing with.

-Caren

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I'll let the mods decide. I have to say that I find it somewhat humorous that I could get modded for following Harley's advice but not for ****.] <hr /></blockquote>cerri - (((((Penny))))) - "Allowance" for the mental aberrations that result from "d-days," etc.

You and I both know that "potty mouth" may "feel good," but it accomplishes little and solves nothing. Still, it's one way to blow off some of the pressure and a way to give a tiny voice to the depth of the hurt feelings.

Personally, I think that at a minumum, a separation is in order. There simply is NO valid excuse for his DECISION. No blame shifting, no transference of responsibility, no "childhood past" causitive agent. We each have FREE WILL. We CHOOSE. We base those choices on whatever WE ourselves think is most important to ourselves.

That brings us to the idea of a "moral compass." The issue for both you and your husband is "what, or who's, moral compass, if any, should be embraced and applied to your individual lives?" What ARE the "black and white" issues irrespective of "societal acceptability?"

Your husband seems to be of the humanistic moral relativistic school of thought; "If it feels good, do it." No "right or wrong," only feelings are important, and then, ONLY your own feelings, not anyone else's.

Conviction, remorse, confession, repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation, change.....to what purpose if "sin" does not exist? If "this time on earth" is all there is, what point is there in following ANY "moral code" other than "what's in it for me?"

Cerri, your husband seems to be "of this school." Since anything remotely touching on "obey God" has no meaning or relevance, "obey whom" becomes the question. Or perhaps even more basic, why even "obey" anyone or anything other than our own selfish desires?

There are fundamental issues that both you and Steve need to think about and address. Right now it is quite obvious that you have two different "ships" and two different "captains" who are charting two different "courses" for your lives with two different "destinations." One would say this is very representative of being "unevenly yoked," even without Christ as the common yoke.

"For better or for worse...in sickness and in health...until death do us part." I don't know if any such words comprised part of the commitment ceremony between you and Steve, but if so, or something similar, then the question remaining is how YOU value YOUR commitment....or has it been replaced with "until I am hurt and no longer feeling loving, then we part."

It is a hard time. You know that you are reacting emotionally to a lot of things right now. Take that proverbial "deep breath" and THINK before speaking or acting.

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

[ January 30, 2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by nikko:
 i think what alot of people are missing here is she stated very clearly(or so it seems) that this would happen if he did it again. he knew it and agreed. she is following through on what she said she would. boundries.....and consequences for crossing them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>I am not saying it was bad, in fact I WISH that I could make my WH and OW exposure nasty. I wish I could post it in the paper. I can't for the kids sake, but I would love to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
He knew what his consequences would be, and he tested to see if she would actually follow through. Looks like he got his answer..
Bless you and the children Cerri!
Danielle

I can understand the feeling to get a little revenge. A mutual friend of mine and the OM told him if he had done that to his wife he would have knocked the OM out. That started to get the OM attention. I still haven't decided what all to do. To much to lose over it I guess. Good for you Cerri for making a stand we are here to give support.

[ January 31, 2005, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri did you get any sleep? How is it going with getting it off your chest? Hope it is helping relieve some stress.

Cerri-

I just visited your website, never been to **edit** before....I just wanted to say I love the way you define marriage.

I also love this statement: "Marriage is not supposed to make you happy. Itâ€™s supposed to make you married....." by Frank Pittman

-Caren

[ January 31, 2005, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

That great that you are protecting you and the kids. I understand the no sleeping and no eating thing. My WW couldn't understand why I was losing weight not that I have much to lose. It was great for the spare tire. LOL

♥ ♥ ♥

Cerri,
Can you e-mail me off the board?
I have a question for you

Danielle

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

OMG! Penny, I am soooo incredibly sorry about this! When I first read the thread header I thought surely, this is an OLD thread...then I saw the date and my heart dropped.

Just know that I am thinking of you hun! {{{PENNY}}}

Cerri... I never post on MB any more but Nikko put a call out on MBL so here I am. I was in similar shoes in November when after 3 1/2 years of recovery my H. did something I considered the "last straw." Like Steve, my H. is a troubled person for whom MB principles do not seem to apply. Nor did the help of two MCs.

The good news is I immediately started feeling better after he left the house, and two months later I am still feeling wonderful. I no longer have to focus so much of my energy on "fixing" someone who does not really want to be fixed. I can focus on myself, my children, my friends, hobbies, new career options, etc. with such an incredibly posititve energy.

I had planned not to date for a year, but I was at the same NYE party as a former neighbor, widowed one year, and we both felt this incredible spark. Last night was our first official get together and I couldn't believe how great it felt to be really appreciated for who I am. Whether this turns out to be a short fling or a long-term relationship, I know in my heart I have a lot to offer the right person and do not have to spend the rest of my life waiting to step on the next land mine.

The best part of the separation has been that my life is now under my control. If I get involved with a man who is toxic or troubled, the red flags will alert me to run as fast as I can. As the book says, "Co-dependent no more!"

So, all I can say is what my DV (and happily remarried) friends said to encourage me after the separation, "There will be a brighter day." Believe it or not, I am thankful to my H. for his "last straw" because it freed me to live a better life.

As for the exposure... I am not one to judge. I did a lot of "crazy" things post D-Days. We all have. One of my friends even brought a fire extinguisher to her H.'s girlfriend's house to "extinguish the flame of love." We laugh about that now. So do whatever feels right... even if you regret it later. Not very PC advice here, but I am one of those unsaveable secular moral relativists.

Cerri,

Lots of hugs to you. I for one agree with your exposure. He knew this would be the consequence and did it anyways. If nothing else, at least he knows that you're serious.

I prescribe some Billie Holliday, a pedicure, and chamomile tea.

Dobie

[ January 31, 2005, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Check your emails. I've sent only about three.

Tons of hugs.

[ January 31, 2005, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

I have 2 things to say ....

Number one.... ((((( Penny ))))) .... I am so saddened by this turn of events. NOT the ONS as much as the abuse your family has endured. To me, this is the most troubling news. That abusive sort of behavior is more ingrained and hardwired than the silly events that can lead up to a ONS.

Number two.... ((((( Cerri ))))) .... Only a really dumb man would do to "The Cerri" something as silly as a ONS. Your H Steve, knows firsthand of "The Cerri" , and the determination she is capable of ....and Pep, for one, would question his sanity for waving this ONS in front of "The Cerri's" nose. "The Cerri" is not some schlep who is going to avoid conflict and be afraid that her wandering husband might "get mad" if she exposes, or that exposure might "push him into OW's arms" .... HE KNOWS YOU ... and he did this anyway ???? Is he crazy???

Support and encouragement and prayers sent for Penny and Cerri.

Pep

[ January 30, 2005, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

{{{cerri}}}}

I'm so sorry. Be strong!!!

[ January 30, 2005, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: TreeReich* ]

I understand this is an exposure, pro or contra is individual opinion, and I don't know more then I've read on this thread, but after reading this

<blockquote>quote:<hr />he's cheated on three wives, hired hookers, hung out at strip clubs, kicked his wife and baby daughter out of the house so he could move his affair partner in, and he's out of our home now because of his severe verbal abuse of me and the kids.<hr /></blockquote>I really don't understand why you are so shocked??

The more we expect the more we can be disappointed... and I just don't get why to expect so much in these cases...

And, what are you going to do now?

If this is your 'professional' challenge to heal him, I can get that,
But not if it's your personal challenge... at least not if these 'repeats' makes you so... as you feel now...

Cerri,
Does that mean you're not exposing this to everyone you all know personally?

I think a primary condition needs to be that ALL people who know know Steve need to know. That's a way of enlisting others help.

I was listening to talk radio. A man called in and admitted how he'd had a consentual affair with a 16 year old and had done 3 years for statuatory rape.

Everyone he knew, he told about the affair. It was his way of preventing the situation from ever happening again.

I think Steve needs to be willing to do this.

(((((((((Penny))))))))))

You were the first coach I called when I confessed my A to my H. You were so very helpful, but my H wanted a 'face-to-face' counselor, and so you and I parted ways. You were so kind to have followed up with me via e-mail afterward.

Oddly enough, even though he wanted a f2f counselor, he ended up going for one month and then quitting. My point is basically that it was a control tactic.

It has taken me a while to recognize it, but my H also verbally and emotionally abused me. And his reactions toward me were more about control than anything else.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />It is not about sex. It is about the pattern of abuse that affects not only me but the children in this family - his and mine. <hr /></blockquote>You've answered your own question here, my dear friend. I'm certain you are aware that abuse is about control and retaliation. His escapade was nothing more than his reaction to losing control of the M (with you standing up to the abuse, and having him leave the house), and retaliation to have you feel the 'hurt' he was feeling.

My H used to degrade me before my A - he felt badly about himself, and so would degrade me so that he would feel better - mainly by lowering me to his level. After my A, he felt deeply hurt (as would anybody), and the verbal and emotional assaults became unbearable. It was about hurting me like I hurt him.

I see the same reactive pattern in your H. And I commend you for following through on your boundaries. I think what some people are forgetting here is the abusive aspect. To back down even 1% on your boundaries would be giving the intonation that he is able to 'control' your actions to a certain extent. And that would perpetuate his abusive nature.

I sympathize so much with you. And even though I cannot give any advice (as my M is ending, and aside from disallowing the abuse, it is in his court to address the underlying tendencies), I feel such great sadness in you. But also such strength.....and that is encouraging.

Thinking of you, and wishing you to find some peace in this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Hell hath no fury like a goddess scorned. The Mor-Rioghan is out in full force today, isn't she?

I am so sorry this happened to you. But I am wondering -- with the description you gave us of his past and present actions, how can you consider "leaving the door open" for eventually reparing the marriage???

I understand how difficult it is to break that bond. It's like sawing through your own arm. But I really am having trouble understanding how you could think of having this man back in your life and your children's lives.

Also: I would suggest that you change the topic of your post to something less shocking and sordid. Not that his actions are not both; it's just that, as you said, it's not about the sex. It's about his continued abuse and intentional cruelty.

Frankly, when I first saw the subject line I thought somebody was trolling the site. You deserve better.

It could be that you are just in shock right now, and when the pain eases somewhat you will just coldly tell him "Shame on your beard!"* and close the door in his face.

Do go and eat a little something, and drink some hot tea. Take care of yourself and thank you for helping us by sharing your experience.
Mulan

*An old Irish insult, said by a woman to her husband when he had done something particularly stupid and/or humiliating. It really means "Shame on your manhood."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

[ January 30, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]

Ok, a part is answered.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cerri:
I'm leaving the door open for the marriage but there are no guarantees.<hr /></blockquote>The three before and the forth? now - why would he change...

I am deeply convinced that, at the end, we get what we allow/deserve, and so far we are not surprised/shocked/shattered with outcome we might be fine... Acceptance...
For we choose it...
But not the children... and not for the children...

[ January 31, 2005, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Penny,

Whew....this took my breath away. I haven't had time to read all the posts - so I may be repeating others, but.....He needs serious IC...

I'm so speechless that I'm not going to babble...I'm not going to babble....

Prayers to you, your H and the kids.

[ January 31, 2005, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri,

I don't know if I can offer you much in the way of solace but to say the following. Dr David Viscott once said that part of any pathological relationship is not only summarized in the role of the "sick" partner. He states that the healthy partner is partly responsible for that pathology because they put their own needs into the mix and deepen that pathology by having that need.

Your need to have your husband fill the role of a husband & father, makes him worse. Not only is he incapable of a loving, stable relationship, your expectation and demands for him to do so, deepen his gross personality defect. Here is a man that(in the way you and I view love) doesn't love you, won't love you and can not love you. You need to seperate from him. Often getting rid of a negative in your life is as healthy as obtaining something positive.

In a way his actions can be interpreted as "get away from me so that I can't hurt you anymore".

It might be wise to listen to his message.

Forgive him and let him go.

[ January 30, 2005, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so sorry. Take care of you and the kids first. Breathe and breathe again. That's what you told me.

I'm aching and mad and sad for you. You are doing EVERYTHING right.

PS: We can resume whenever you feel right about it. I'll wait to hear from you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[ January 31, 2005, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Just as an aside....Last year at the Smart Marriage conference, I was there, and heard with my own little ears, and in the presence of Steve....Penny describe in detail (and living color) what exposure would look like if there was ever another A. There was no question that her husband took her seriously. So, this is far from a surprise for anyone...especially her husband. I am sorry beyond belief that she has had to follow through with this plan....but far sorrier that it was necessary at all because of the selfish and thoughtless acts of her husband. It is an awful boundary to feel compelled to defend....and my heart goes out to anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Starfish,

Thank you and the others for taking such good care of Penny during this....Her bravery is mind-boggling. Makes me want to get on a plane to hug her personally. That inner trembling/hands shaking takes so long to go away.

I'm glad she's not alone...Sheesh, how many of us are there??? Penny and a few hundred??? of her friends wanting to ride this out with her, hold her hand - support her all the way!

I love these people!!

[ January 30, 2005, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: CSue ]

Cerri - Do some normal family things and get some sleep. The protection plan will help you make decisions - MUCH LATER. It is too soon to figure everything out. We will support you.

Okay, I understand the concern that the posters have for Cerri's well being, but how can you question her decisions?

She is obviously quite versed in this particular subject, I believe that she knows what she's doing and if she is willing and able to repair her marriage, then she should.

We don't have to live with her husband, we don't interact with him on a daily basis, we can only know him from what we read about him. I assume he is multi-faceted person, that has good qualities as well as bad.

I think that these decisions should be left up to Cerri, as friends we should offer support without giving advice and support whatever she decides, then as friends that decision should have your unwaivering support.

I know that is one of the main reasons I come to the MB boards, I can put my feelings out here, without being judged....it's something that I can't get anywhere else, people in my real life are judgemental because they don't wish to see me get hurt again, I understand this, but it doesn't mean I want their unsolicited advice.

So, Cerri, although we have just met, I offer you my support.

-Caren

I never counseled with you, but my C once told me forgiveness doesn't mean you have to put yourself in the position of continuing to allow someone else to treat you badly.

I'm sure forgiveness isn't even on the table for you at this point, but the protection you are putting in place for yourself and your children is a positive course.

Steve's actions are horrible and have been enacted against you, but his behavior is about the twistedness inside of him, not you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

He'll have to fight this battle on his own because he has deliberatly cut himself off from your care.

Get some food and rest. Sending you thoughts and prayers of strength and purpose.

[ January 31, 2005, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

hi cerri...

i didnt mean to come accross as questioning your decision....i meant that the liability issue loooms large with greedy lawyers and you dont need that hassle...much luck to you...thanks to all in here for listening to me and everyone...there is geuine concern and friendship on this site....
dan

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by CarenMc:
 Okay, I understand the concern that the posters have for Cerri's well being, but how can you question her decisions?

She is obviously quite versed in this particular subject, I believe that she knows what she's doing and if she is willing and able to repair her marriage, then she should.

We don't have to live with her husband, we don't interact with him on a daily basis, we can only know him from what we read about him. I assume he is multi-faceted person, that has good qualities as well as bad.

I think that these decisions should be left up to Cerri, as friends we should offer support without giving advice and support whatever she decides, then as friends that decision should have your unwaivering support.

I know that is one of the main reasons I come to the MB boards, I can put my feelings out here, without being judged....it's something that I can't get anywhere else, people in my real life are judgemental because they don't wish to see me get hurt again, I understand this, but it doesn't mean I want their unsolicited advice.

So, Cerri, although we have just met, I offer you my support.

-Caren <hr /></blockquote>Hi Caren! I dont think it is a matter of people questiong her decisions, but rather her ability to make rash decisions NOW!

Penny is in a state of shock right now and although she KNOWS what she needs to do, the ability to make rational decisions is beyond her right now..and that is where her staff at **edit** will come in and help her. I know the people over there are taking good care of her!

It was only 11 months ago that my dday happened and I remember oh so vividly the state of shock I was in for days. I was all over the map for months! Penny is more grounded than most, so I dont think that she will take long before she gets back on track!

I have no doubt in my mind that she will make it thru this. She has helped me and many others see and stay the course...It is because of her that I am where I am today and my H is not home with me...and yes, that is a good thing...cuz I would still be living in the abussive sit. I was for years before!

Penny, I am thinking of you non stop!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cerri:

I told a client this week when she was concerned about her partner coming home too soon that she obviously didn't know how anal I am about conditions. <hr /></blockquote>LOL, I believe it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Cerri (Penny),

{{{{{{{Cerri}}}}}}} First of all, color me dumb; I didn't realize that you were the same person! I don't think I've ever spoken to you but I wanted to offer you support and tell you that I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Obviously you're wonderful with supporting others here and on your other board, so I hope that you'll get the support you need and deserve.

Reading your post was like reading a fiction story. It's hard to take in. You're amazing to have forgiven your H for his past indiscretions. I don't know if I would have been that strong. It sounds like he does have some major personal issues going on. Has he been in constant IC? Has he been diagnosed with a sexual addiction? It's so hurtful to think that his last indiscretion was with someone "meaningless", and it makes me think even more that it's a severe problem on his part.

I wish you well. I have a Wiccan friend, and she gets TONS of support from her church and from her Wiccan friends. They all seem to appear and rally for each other. I hope that you have the same support. I hope that you can take care of yourself at this time--remember to eat, try to sleep, take one breath at a time. Your children need you. Take care!

CC

Personally, I'm amazed at the difference 12 hours has made... and I suspect that things will change fairly quickly over the next few days. I don't know what will happen with Penny and Steve's marriage. It is an unbelievably difficult thing to have to step back and know that there is an utter limit to what I can do to help.

I am, though, continuing to hope for the healing of everyone involved. And at this point, that's a lot of us.

Pardon me for being blunt, but after reading this:

~~he's cheated on three wives, hired hookers, hung out at strip clubs, kicked his wife and baby daughter out of the house so he could move his affair partner in, and he's out of our home now because of his severe verbal abuse of me and the kids.~~

and NOW he has cheated again.........YOU are the one making yourself m iserable by allowing this man in your life. And now you are 'leaving the doors open for marrige' again??????????

Just what is it going to take for you to wake up here? You seem like a really intelligent woman, but this man has you under his thumb like there is no tomorrow.

I know you are in pain, but for heaven's sake - WAKE UP! You are wanting to 'work out your marriage' with a man who continually cheats, HIRES PROSTITUTES, and is physically abusive????? Am I missing something here? Do you know the health risks he is bringing home to you and your kids? I am a nursing student, so let me explain.....

Research has shown that 80% of all adults have genital warts. The virus can lie dormant in men for up to 10 years but still be spread. Many women don't realize they have them because they begin to grow in th e uterus. You can also get genital warts in your throat from performing oral sex. Eventually the warts from a womans uterus will spread to the outside of her labia. THERE IS NO CURE FOR GENITAL WARTS.

That is just ONE example of what you are dealing with. There are many diseaases out there that can be spread by sexual contact and even condoms will not protect you from them all. Medical tests will not even see some of them until 6 months after the fact.

Why do you keep putting yourself through this? At this point, your pain appears to be a result of your own doing. Do you REALLY think some 'contract' or 'boundaries' are going to stop this man?

Move on while you still have some dignity.

Sorry for being so harsh, but this just blew my mind. Right now you are nothing but a sitting duck waiting to get shot.

Cerri,

Something to think about: perhaps making the statement that if Steve ever cheated again that the marriage would be over should never have been made.

I only say this because I made the same statement after my H's first affair, only to find that I still wanted to fix our marriage when affair #2 was uncovered five years later! I meant it when I said it. I truly did. Just like I had always said if I had a husband who cheated I would kick his butt to the curb (and I didn't do that, either, when affair #1 was uncovered).

It doesn't mean we are weak-willed and can't keep our own boundaries. It just means, to me, that such statements go along with not making promises you can't keep. Marriage is a complex thing, and whenever something happens (good or bad) it takes time to sift through what happened to arrive at an answer that makes sense at all.

My heart and prayers go out for you.

~ Snow

Cerri,

Snowbelle wrote:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />It just means, to me, that such statements go along with not making promises you can't keep. <hr /></blockquote>And I think the most difficult promise to keep is made to ourselves.

My prayers are with you and your family.

Carol

CapitalC - You make excellent points.

Several people on this thread have said similar things, though you're perhaps the most blunt of them. There is certainly something to be said for understanding when things haven't changed. Self preservation is extremely important in any such situation.

In this case, well, Penny and Steve have a long history and have fought through many difficult issues. This is the first of this particular difficulty in five years. That doesn't excuse what happened. It does, though, maybe put it in a certain context.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Snowbelle:
 Cerri,

Something to think about: perhaps making the statement that if Steve ever cheated again that the marriage would be over should never have been made.

It doesn't mean we are weak-willed and can't keep our own boundaries. It just means, to me, that such statements go along with not making promises you can't keep. Marriage is a complex thing, and whenever something happens (good or bad) it takes time to sift through what happened to arrive at an answer that makes sense at all.

My heart and prayers go out for you.

~ Snow <hr /></blockquote>Snow:

Interesting way you look at things I must say. I can't say I agree with you even a little bit on this, but that is probably nothing new. This whole situation is very sad and tragic.

LM

penny...
as i learn more i believe that i have changed my view...i am so sorry that you have endured this...i have no credible advice for you...good luck my dear...
KA

Actually I can relate to Snowbelle 110%! I, too, said I would never stand by my H if he cheated on me... yet I did and didn't regret it til now.

I also told him "never again" and yet here I am!

You never know what you can do and take until you have "been there and done that"

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Momma'sSad:
 Actually I can relate to Snowbelle 110%! I, too, said I would never stand by my H if he cheated on me... yet I did and didn't regret it til now.

I also told him "never again" and yet here I am!

You never know what you can do and take until you have "been there and done that" <hr /></blockquote>Hey, I have done it also. You are right, and I agree with your statement:

You never know what you can do and take until you have "been there and done that"

NEVER in a million years would I have thought that I would take my xWW back after infidelity. BUt I did rather easily and enthusiasticaly. And, yep...I in the end regretted it becasue she did it again. If I took her back AFTER YET ANOTHER infidelity, I would only have myself to blame for accepting this behavior. I made a promise to myself and my wife (after the 1st time SHE WAS CAUGHT)that one of my DEAL BREAKERS in the future would be that should she ever betray me and our marriage again, that would be "it" for me. You see, at this point, I could not use the statement you just made: You never know what you can do and take until you have "been there and done that"...because NOW I have been there and done that......not being true to myself and my boundaries would have only led to more heartache and betryal down the road for me......and FOR ME ( I fully understand that this is a VERY personal decsision) , I could not live with myself if I moved my boundaries and rationalized yet another betryal. That is my opinion. My marriage did not make it, but in the END, I consider myself a SUCCESS because I am a happier, more fulfilled person than I have ever been. I will someday remarry, and it is that person who will bear the fruits of my personal struggles this past year. A failed marriage in no way shape or form defines me, just as a Former WS actions should not define them. If the original poster wants to remain married, she will need to find a way to take back the promises and move the boundaries. Perfectly fine...but lets be honest about it here.

This is all so depressing. My sincerest condolences go out to the original poster. Some people are just "wired" differently, and despite everything that we may "give" them, they will still betray. Filing all of the EN's in the world just doesn't do it sometimes. They are who they are. All so sad.

LM

Penny,

Sorry its come to this. I guess its time to move on... I can tell you are a strong woman. You'll do fine.

I imagine this is going to be really tough for you given your job. Being so focused on saving other peoples marriages, it'll be hard to let yours go. Also you'll probably be triggered on a daily basis. But hopefully it will accelerate your journey through the pain and hurt and you can get on with your life faster.

All the best with your new life!

Miker

Loving someone can really SUCK.

I guess the one thing you can take solice in is the fact that the Problem is NOT you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

This guy obviously has issues to deal with, most likely from childhood according to Dave Carder (Torn Asunder).

Only you can decide what to do, God will only give us as much Pain as we can handle? How much more can you endure? Is it worth it? Do you move boundries again?

Don't consider your job when making this decision. Your marriage has nothing to do with giving great advice.

I'll pray for you and your family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Andrew

As one healer to another, I can understand how it is you would be willing to want to save your family and marriage.

I know. Tried for 3 years myself. In the end, had to save ME. He would not willingly change.

That is something we must discuss here. Why. Why did he do this? It is based on a self gratification issue. He felt he could. His past behaviors show he has lack of control in some areas. Especially alcohol and sex. I am gonna guess as your H, he sought help and you got him good help. But did he change. I am thinking no. I am thinking he could have been living day to day dealing with who he is by pushing those feelings under the surface.

Once, even after our D, in mid 04, my x told me "don't you get it? You're better off now. You don't have to deal with somebody who's done this stuff before...and could do it again. I think I will never cheat on her. Right now I am happy." And I found out that he's cheating from a patient of mine (xh's secretary's husband) and I didn't even look for the info. It was handed to me.

Could it be his recovery attempts were not genuine? I think so.

And I think it's smart to read what you said about him...visited prostitutes. Threw wife and child into street to move affair partner in the home. Yea, that's a real attractive man. Somebody that TODAY would make me run for the hills and I am a healthy and healed person who is starting her life over...

You are so wonderful and have been so kind and blessed many here. We want you to have healing and happiness.

And I am not feeling that maybe working this out is a good thing. Mind you, I am all about saving a marriage...but there is an old baseball saying...three strikes, you're out! He's had MORE than the requisite three strikes. How many allowances can you make for somebody who has repeatedly imho, committed crimes against his FAMILY?

As a health provider, you could have caught an STD. They are rampant.

I think this is about your H being all about himself. He is a hedonist it sounds like. And you, your faith, is about healing. And restoring balance. I don't see him ever giving you either peace or real balance after this. I am sorry.

Think about what he did to change after he did those very bad things. What did he REALLY do? Was it lip service?

You see, my xh seems to fall into a pattern. I speak of him in reflection now so I can better choose in the future btw...here's his pattern: 1)had serious college gf. Got engaged. Cheated on her and immediately moved in with an OW. 2)Married this gf (former OW) and they lived together for 4 years married. Went to church with her, had very involved church life. Cheated on her rampantly. 3)Met me while divorce from Wife 1 was in swing...I thought he was already divorced as she lived in another state...so it was his word I took. She was not there to say otherwise. 4)Marries me. We date 2 years and go to church. Have lots of friends and get successful. Grow his business together. I quit my profession. Have a child. He begins cheating after almost 6 years of marriage. Grows violent with every D day. 5)During separation (very few months after) moves in with one of his affair partners. She gets preggers when our D is not going fast enough. He marries her 3 days after our D is final in 04. She has child. 6)Within 6 mos. of marriage is cheating on present ow/wife.

He has a pattern. A cycle. It will be maybe three years of fidelity at most. Then he goes out on a hunt for something new. A cycle.

Does your H have a cycle? Is he simply living true to who he is? When I look at that cycle, I see why I had to have my life back. My son needed his mom whole.

Without very very serious help (psychiatrist maybe)he will not be able most likely to break this very serious destructive lifestyle.

It is so hard for you to be as decisive as you are in your daily practice when it is happening to you. I am sooo sorry.

I just think you need to look at another angle for clarity. Get your staff to do that as well for you since this is such a difficult time. My prayers for healing for you and children ok?

You deserve happiness and healing and love.

I just do not think he can be easily changed. I wish I could say otherwise.

And just like I tell people, I am for marriages. I want to see miracles happen here. But sometimes we have allow ourselves to be supported and open the shades to our own house so we can let in a little light of reason.

Mom23-

I understand what you're saying....of course my case was all backwards, I felt a million times better after D-Day, cuz I'd been spinning my wheels not having any hard evidence for almost 5 months....5 MONTHS of having that 'gut feeling' but being unable to prove it....it SUCKED....I have felt better and better every day since I found out.....I'm so weird..LMAO.

When I went to the suicide crisis center on New years day, it was because I thought my WH wasn't having an affair, that my gut had been THAT wrong....and if he wasn't having an affair, that meant he just didn't love me...etc, etc....I couldn't handle that. I didn't know what I was fighting against....that make sense? At least when there's another woman...I know my parameters...I know how to fight....before I was fighting against myself.

-Caren

[ January 31, 2005, 03:25 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri-

Well said, and I'm gonna have to agree with you. I have also been married once before, but I was only 17....and just thought that the marriage vows were just something people said at weddings....I didn't think a whole lot about them, but when I married my WH, I was 27 years old...and I meant every word I said. I think alot of people take things like that too lightly...I know I did, and apparently so did my WH.

I really believe with all my heart that I am going to come out of this a better person, and that I am going to come out of this with a marriage that is brand new, and different.....more stable.

I love my WH despite the pain he has caused, and I am not willing to cut and run or to divorce him. I am going to fight for what I believe is right.

-Caren

double post

[ January 30, 2005, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: CSue ]

Penny,

I'm hoping you're sleeping by now, I'm trying to picture your Taker on a caffine, sugar buzz - not good!

Of course no one can tell anyone else when their marriage is over; to do so would be extreme DJs.

It's not possible for us to put ourselves in anyone else's shoes. For the most part we can only imagine what it feels like...This is like grieving. People want to say something helpful and sometimes the strangest things come out.....

That's why I like to stop, when I find myself babbling...like now!!

Cerri, I'd like to comment on some of what you just said. I hope you take it for what it's worth. PLEASE know that I am not trying to be mean here - just realistic.

~~I know that many of you think that I need to end this marriage, and you may be right. But that decision is mine to make, and mine alone.~~

It is NOT your decision to make. He has already made it for you by continuing to damage your marriage. HE decided to destroy the vows, HE decided to have sex with another woman, HE decided to verbally abuse you and your kids, HE decided to END this marriage. There are no decisions left for you to make because you have given him the pwoer to make them all for you.

~~I also know that vows are not about what someone else does or does not do - they are about you and your personal integrity.~~

WRONG! As your life partner it IS about what he does/does not do as well as your personal integrity. He made a commitment to you that he is too childish to hold up to. It's 'what he's doing' thats causing you this pain. And just where is your personal integrity in a relationship like this? Crying yourself to sleep? Not eating? Wondering if your husband is out with another woman?......is THAT your integrity?

~~I meant what I said when we got married and for right now - I still mean it today.~~

You mean it - but he doesn't. Is that a marriage to you? You can't 'make' someone love/respect you, no matter how hard you try.

~~However, lest you think that he is going to just waltz back in here and we're gonna play footsie - you obviously don't know me all that well. ~~

We know you well enough to know that you have allowed this to happen to you numerous times - and I've only been here for 2 days!

~~`I am one hard a**ed woman when it comes to enforcing boundaries that are clearly stated. This offer that I've made to him today PROTECTS ME AND THE KIDS. It puts him at risk and on the line.~~

What risk? What line? What protection? It's never stopped him before - do you really think it's going to now??? He'll just do it again and think ' well next time she'll take me back and make even tougher boundaries'. Big deal (to him)!

~~Yes, I could have simply chosen to file for divorce tomorrow morning. But doing so puts me in a position of a battle that drains energy, time, and money~~

Is living in this nightmare SAVING you time, energy and money?? I think not.

~~~t also creates a situation where my children and I need to leave our home and try to find somewhere else to live in a community that tends to be pretty expensive.~~

Lower your standard of living.

~~If what I have proposed works out we will not have to worry about that ever again.~~

How many times have you said that before? Well, let's see.....he screwed up so I'll just make him stick to my boundaries, my way. Sorry - he hasn't done it in the past and he isn't going to now. Honestly, what is a freakin "boundary" to someone who wants to cheat???? It's a joke.

~~am very good at negotiating with my Taker and that's what this offer is all about. It's non negotiable - he can take it or leave it.~~

Of course he'll take it! Then he can settle in again until he gets ready to cheat again. SSDD.

~~But I was dead serious when I took those vows and today is not the day I abandon them.~~

He has ALREADY abandoned them. You 'hanging on' to them is only causing you more misery.

~~I understant that in no way does this man deserve me or this family.~~

Smartest thing you've said yet.

~~But I deserve the right to decide for myself when I'm done. ~~

Yes, you do 'deserve' the right - but as I said above, he has taken that right away from you because he has already made the decision.

WHAT are you hanging onto here? It's obvious that you love him (A LOT), but he does not love you the way a husband should love a wife. LET GO OF HIM. What does it say to your son when his role model is a man who continually cheats on his mother and she allows it?? Do you want your son to grow up thinking that cheating is 'ok' and that women are supposed to just take him back when he does it? Thats the example you are setting.

I am 'one of those' who has always said that I'd never take a man back if he cheated on me (and fortunately I haven't had to deal with that), but I know in my heart I'd give it another chance. You are PAST that. You have given chances out the ying-yang!!

As someone pointed out to me in my thread about my husband not working.......you are enabling him to do this. Take the power out of his hands and put it into YOURS.

I mean.......after ALL he has done....could you EVER really trust him again???? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with a man you are always having to check up on, wonder what he is doing, and always having doubt???? That can't be healthy - and it surely isn't happy.

Cerri - get some sleep hun, you need to clear your mind.

CaptialC:

I know your heart is in the right place, but please take some cover girl. You have just done the equivalent of stirring a hornets nest.

LM

Stirring a hornets nest is not my intent at all. I do realize just how harsh I sounded, but some people need that. I am also one of those people.

When you talk about something like this on a discussion board, you can't expect everyone to just be all "honey it's gonna be ok" about it. Yes, it WILL be ok someday......as soon as she quits letting this jerk run all over her. He is taking advantage of her feelings and she is distraught. That is human nature to feel the way she does. I also know that you cannot turn off feelings like a light switch, but sometimes you have to put a dimmer switch on it......so you can dim the feeeling of love just enough to get yourself out of a bad situation.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cerri:
Yes, I could have simply chosen to file for divorce tomorrow morning. But doing so puts me in a position of a battle that drains energy, time, and money - things that are in short supply for me right now. It also creates a situation where my children and I need to leave our home and try to find somewhere else to live in a community that tends to be pretty expensive. If what I have proposed works out we will not have to worry about that ever again.<hr /></blockquote>He'll will pay for his mistakes with money!?!
So, you and your kids (not his too???) could aford the same standard life.

That'd be only sense I could see from you still trying.

PS: It irritates me more and more here when people hide real things behind some famous words as vow, God's wish, Love, Marriage...
C'mon people, calling a spade a spade doesn't hurt at all; moreover, it helps more to recognize where you are and what for, and - where you wanna be.

[ January 30, 2005, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by CaptialC:
 Stirring a hornets nest is not my intent at all. I do realize just how harsh I sounded, but some people need that. I am also one of those people.

When you talk about something like this on a discussion board, you can't expect everyone to just be all "honey it's gonna be ok" about it. Yes, it WILL be ok someday......as soon as she quits letting this jerk run all over her. He is taking advantage of her feelings and she is distraught. That is human nature to feel the way she does. I also know that you cannot turn off feelings like a light switch, but sometimes you have to put a dimmer switch on it......so you can dim the feeeling of love just enough to get yourself out of a bad situation. <hr /></blockquote>Well, my newbie friend, I would ordinarily write a post back to you, but I am just gonna sit back and watch. This is Cerri's thread and I don't want to thread jack. But, please heed my WELL EXPERIENCED ADVICE and take cover.

Cheers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM

LOL lemonman!

CapitolC, ahem, why are you on this board? This a Marriage BUILDING board, not a marriage Destroying board. Cerri is obvioulsly the only person who can make her OWN decisions.

News Flash!!! MOST people on this board have been betrayed in at least one way or another and MOST people on this board are here to give there marriages another chance!

oh boy...I'm gonna stop at that! I probably should not have even posted.

I think that this Capitol C person is an old poster in disguise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

nevermind... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

committed

[ January 30, 2005, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
 nevermind... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

committed <hr /></blockquote>Committed:

Why did you edit that post ?

LM

[ January 31, 2005, 03:25 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

It's alright Capital....I do most certainly understand your sentiments. As a longtime member and close friend of cerri's...lots of folks know her work and her commitment to saving marriages. Please check out her site and get a feel for what an incredible activist for marriage and fidelity she is...on a national level. She is a crusader and a marriage coach who has helped countless people on this site...and folks from all over the world fight infidelity. She sure is going to give her own marriage the same energy she's giving others.

This thread shows two things....none of us are safe from infidelity...if it could happen to Penny...it could happen to any of us. But it also shows the strength....not weakness...of this lady.

As a member of the team that is putting together the conditions for reconciliation...I can promise you that she will be protected and free to decide if she is willing to continue in her marriage. If her husband is actually willing and able to follow through it will take every resource he has (and a few small miracles)as well as blood, sweat and tears....if he can't....I have no doubt Penny will act accordingly and swiftly....but always with dignity.

Blessings to you and for your deep concern.

hugs

Shouldn't, I liked it!

Although, I understand you...

[ January 31, 2005, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri,

I'm sorry I didn't post sooner. I haven't been on the boards lately at all.

My thoughts are with you. I'm sorry you have to deal with this again. And you are right, your decisions are yours alone. No one else has to live with them but you.

If there is anything I can do, let me know.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cerri:
Not exactly - but something like that. His D lives with her mom. We pay significant child support and her standard of living is not at risk. My children's is.<hr /></blockquote>I finally like something here.
Even if it isn't exactly... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Errr - you're not talking about me are you?<hr /></blockquote>About (too) many people I read here...

And about you... you mentioned vow THEN other reasons TOO.
(IMO, if it's all about vow - no other reasons to stay exist... and vice versa...)

[ January 31, 2005, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Cerri,

I barely know you. Posted awhile back on your site and haven't really been back. But I just feel for you. I hurt for you. The disappointment, the shock AGAIN, the no sleeping again. Bless your heart. I have kind of skimmed this thread, no time to read the whole thing with midterms this week.<sigh>

Anyway, just wanted to throw out there something I am sure you already know. This isn't the time to make any major decisions being under the influence of sleep deprivation and the shock of it all. I would hope those that are suggesting an immediate divorce are just having a knee jerk reaction to seeing someone they care about being hurt. I kind of liken it to watching a friend walk into a fire and immediately reaching out to stop them.

Still your choice to walk in or stay out or be in limbo for a period of time.

Well, just wanted to say my heart hears your heart crying. Hugs ((((((Cerri))))))

Tiggy

Edited to add---Oh I see you already said it is your decision alone. More power to you hon. Be gentle everyone please. It's easy to see that Cerri's hubby is being jerkish at the moment but it still our place to be supportive and remember we each probably have our own jerkish person that brought us here. Peace.

[ January 30, 2005, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Tiggy ]

First let me say that I also am part of the team that's working with/for Penny to build a safe plan for her (and the children's) future. Now, with that being said...

Just sitting here chuckling and watching from the sidelines.

Those of us who know Penny well are enjoying watching the conversations that are going on. Lemonman, LOL, I hear ya! Oh yes!

Capital...Penny is an expert in the marriage saving venue. I hope you have, by now, visited her website. Perhaps you would even like to join us over there. We welcome all who are respectful posters.

Sharon

(sorry...double post)

[ January 30, 2005, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]

grrrrr...another - apologies

[ January 30, 2005, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]

[ January 31, 2005, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ISGirl:
Just sitting here chuckling and watching from the sidelines.<hr /></blockquote>Does it mean Penny is OK, not shattered, not dissapointed, not sad, not miserable... so we can join you chuckling and smiling?

Super then. Cheers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Cerri,

Since I am new here I do not want to get off on the wrong foot. I may need your help someday. It's obvious that I simply view things differently than you and some of the people here. To me, it's no longer a matter of 'marriage' because no marriage exists. It's a matter of your personal strength thats needed to get you out of this unhealthy environment.

~~huh. Well first, I really didn't notice that you sounded harsh. But I'm not exactly known for pulling punches myself.~~

Gathering from some of the other replies, it appeared that I did - even though it was not necessarliy my intent.

~~Errrr -- you may not know that I OWN a bulletin board for marriage that is far more action oriented than MB has been in years. In case you didn't catch it I initiated Protection Phase (a much more in depth and supported version of n/c than Plan B) three weeks ago. I had stringent requirements for reengaging in the marriage attached to that process.~~

Yes, I knew about the other board, but haven't visited it. You implemented a protection phase 3 weeks ago, yet he cheated on you within 2 days aog. How protected are your feelings?

~~You will note that no where in my post did I ask for advice. I am a professional marriage coach and coach trainer.~~

Honestly, with all due respect, that is what concerns me most. I admire you to no end for devoting your life to saving marriages, but as you know, not all marriages can be saved. I don't see how going back into a never-ending cycle of abuse is going to save your marriage. I would think as a coach, that you would have already seen that this is one of those marriages which can't be saved. I see it and I'm not even experienced in your field.

~~I have a superb staff who know what they're doing and who have been with me day and night through every minute of this. My purpose in posting this here was to fulfill my agreement about exposing future infidelity in every communication channel available to me.~~

This is one that I really wanted to ask you about, but wasn't sure how to word it.....how does 'exposing' someone help the crisis? I would feel like a fool if I exposed my husband for cheating and then took him back. What does that say about me to everyone who I told about the affair? I genually mean that question with sincerity and not sarcasm. I am hoping to learn what the purpose of exposure is because I honestly don't know.

~~That's not to say that I don't appreciate greatly the support and the care. It's been immeasurably comforting to know that I can still be a person and not just the expert.~~

Hey, we are all human and all have feelings. As I said before, I am dealing with my own marriage problems in another thread because my husband is too lazy to work. Sometimes it's easier to give the advice than to take it - I speak from experience, which is why I am here. I want to learn how and when ot take others advice. People on the outside usually can see the whole picture.

~~You might want to ask WAT what would happen if you posted those statements on the BB that I own. We don't allow name calling of any sort. Period end of sentence. It is degrading, disrespectful, and demeans the human dignity of everyone involved.~~

My fault, and I apologize. I simply HATE cheaters and can easily let my emotions over-run my mouth.

~~Perhaps you'd like to have a conversation about the newest findings on the neurochemistry of the mating and pairing drive? How dopamine and seratonin act on the brain to create warm fuzzies (or severe distraught in the case of love gone wrong) as well as the obsessive thought patterns. There are interesting points to be made about the biochemistry surrounding all aspects of the mating drive - lust, romantic obsession, and attachment - and how we can use our understanding of that biochemistry to plan and execute our strategies for dealing with marital crises.

Let me know when you're up to date on the research - I always love a good intellectually stimulating conversation.~~

I am currently taking Psychology courses in school, so I am learning a little. They are required courses for my degree and I find them quite interesting. However, regardless of all that is involved with the nature/nurture and/or the brain, I see the scientific reasons for what he does, but I cannot see the scientific reasons for what you are doing by staying. There may be chemical reasons for his behavior, but that in no way obligates you to stay in an unhappy, unhealthy relationship.

I understand this is a marriage 'building' board.....but some can't be built. Sure, I don't have the knowledge that you do in this field, but I can't see anything that is truly going to make this man change.

I challenge your questions/comments out of the hope that I will learn something - not to be mean. The last thing I would do is kick a person when they are down. I know you are hurting and I don't want to contribute to that. I look at your experience and realize that I could be in your shoes someday and I want to know all facets of the situation.

Maybe this isn't the best time to 'learn' from you, but it's a real life situation that many of will face in our lifetime and I really am just trying to understand your actions so that I may be better prepared myself someday.

To the poster who thought I am an old member, I'm not. I came here yesterday morning after finding the board on Google. I came here because of questioning my own marriage. I too, want to build my own marriage and not throw it away, however I am not dealing with something as serious as cheating (to me that is the worst). It's easy for me to point out what I feel Cerri is doing wrong here on her thread....maybe she can point out my faults on mine. When I say 'faults', I mean areas that need to be improved. Isn't that what discussion is about?

[ January 31, 2005, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Belonging,

What I alluded to was the posters who may not know Penny/Cerri and understand what they are up against with regard to challenging her.

Penny is an amazing Marriage coach and advocate. She is schooled in the MB concepts and has her own practice.

Those who don't know her...well, they will soon enough.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"For instance, therapists are trained to encourage people to pursue the parts of their lives that bring personal happiness and satisfaction , even if these goals are at odds with what's best for the marriage, the children , or even the individual in question in the long run. The therapist wants you to feel good and do whatever it takes to make that happen."<hr /></blockquote>I will never agree with this, especially not if there are children involved.
It's too selfish, the same as an A is a selfish act and never considers negative consequeces on kids, just 'me, me, me' needs.

That's another extreme, opposite of so-easy-counseling-to-divorce if you are not happy nowadays (by the way, they too encourage clients 'to pursue the parts of their lives that bring personal happiness and satisfaction', don't they?!

And no extreme brings real happines and satisfaction, not in the long run.

I'm sorry this is happening to you right now -
but personally, it makes me sad to see so much activity on this thread when Cerri is *****-to-the-wall sure she knows what she is doing, and has made it clear she isn't asking for advice.....at least she doesn't want any advice that goes against her expert opinion...

Your marriage....cerri....your call....

Somewhere down on these boards are other people who need help, like StillMe whose WW tried to commit suicide today.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

LIR

[ January 31, 2005, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

[ January 31, 2005, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Just wanted to show my support...i have heard about you and have been to SYMC.

I dont know how you can take another hit like this.

I am still struggling with the first and waiting for it to end. I have told myself i will never do this again. This will be the one and only time i will do this waiting for him to come out of the fog.

Take Care.

~~I'm sorry this is happening to you right now -
but personally, it makes me sad to see so much activity on this thread when Cerri is balls-to-the-wall sure she knows what she is doing, and has made it clear she isn't asking for advice.....at least she doesn't want any advice that goes against her expert opinion...

Your marriage....cerri....your call....

Somewhere down on these boards are other people who need help, like StillMe whose WW tried to commit suicide today.... ~~

Lady In Red, I noticed this too. It really is silly for any of us to keep posting on a thread where there is no question/solution.

There are many other threads listed from people who actually want the help.

This thread has went to 11 pages when most don't even get 11 posts.

Cerri, I will email you for that information. Thanks.

Well, Penny, ISgirl, you sould have said that on the first page for we didn't see it that way but a devastated W after 'again A'.

Now it's more clear, Penny made a plan, it'll bring financial security, she must have got used to As in a way and following chemistry of her H's brain, hopefully serotonin and what ws else will be just fin in no time.

So, let's have a virtual drink, toast, and move to a topic where someone really needs help and will accept different opinions too without putting in danger someone's very good intentions.

All the best, Byebye <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

double post

[ January 30, 2005, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: CaptialC ]

double post

[ January 30, 2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: CaptialC ]

Do you people not have ANY hearts! I mean come on Belonging to nowhere! I think you really need to quit while you are down! This woman is incredibly strong! She is hurting right now..Why the sarcasm...

See this is what I do not understand about half the people here! When the person you are posting to, does NOT do what YOU want them to, you have to hit em where it hurts. and CONTINUE hitting them when they are down...

Oh sorry, she's not doing what all of you people want her to do...Leave, divorce, there is no saving! For petes sake...forget it !

Hey, Penny, I never would tell anyone to stay or go. Especially the first day. Plus, coming from me, "Dump his tushy and file for divorce" would be a huge laugh. Let's see, I'll be separated 21 months, and I filed oh, 18 months ago, and where am I? In MC, for heaven's sake!

Get some sleep. Do you have Valerian Root? I love the stuff. Preferrably with a good glass of wine.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cerri:

If you are sincerely interested email me and I will send you a copy of my Infidelity Overview which outlines the steps necessary for addressing a spouse's affair and the reasons behind them.

I am currently offering an in depth infidelity class that covers much of the above material. You might want to consider taking that as well.

C <hr /></blockquote>I know this is a SERIOUS thread jack, and I am sorry....
But *I* personally have heard a lot about **edit**, and enrolled but am confused about the differences, etc.
I would like more info <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hey, maybe this can make the thread 'nicer'
My e-mail is **edit**

Dani

Hello cerri,

I too am so sorry to hear about your WH's actions.I feel confident in that you will make the right decision for yourself and children when you are ready.If there is anyone here that knows what the heck they are doing,it's you.

You know,toxic people just don't have a place in my life and so I make the choice to keep them out.I am still working on my own WH but it's a power we all have that can help us keep our sanity and dignity.

Prayers to you cerri! Stay strong.

O

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lemonman:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
 nevermind... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

committed <hr /></blockquote>Committed:

Why did you edit that post ?

LM <hr /></blockquote>Wasted Words lemonman...wasted words.

I was turning this thread into a thread about words...and integrity in those words.

Too many emotions are keeping those words from being of any value.

I thought maybe I had edited before it could have been read by too many people. Maybe I didn't do it in time.

committed

P, sweetie, I love you dearly, and thus I am going to say only this:

GO TO SLEEP, you madwoman!

And if you answer my text message with anything other than "I'm going, I'm going!" I may call your house and get the boys to sit at the cardinal points around your bed until you're unconscious. (I think M would make a great Archangel... not sure about the other three.)

So -- Cerri -- just out of curiosity, what *would* it take for you to say, "Enough. That's the last straw. I want a divorce." -- ?
Mulan

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cerri:


You will note that no where in my post did I ask for advice.
C <hr /></blockquote>So noted.

Leaving to edit...

committed

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lemonman:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by committedandlovingit:
 nevermind... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

committed <hr /></blockquote>Committed:

Why did you edit that post ?

LM <hr /></blockquote>Wasted Words lemonman...wasted words.

I was turning this thread into a thread about words...and integrity in those words.

Too many emotions are keeping those words from being of any value.

I thought maybe I had edited before it could have been read by too many people. Maybe I didn't do it in time.

committed <hr /></blockquote>Okie-dokie...that is what I thought. I am kind of sorry that you edited it though, I would have been very interested in the response.

Cheers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM

Cerri --
This is from a Harley radio program:

Counseling from my perspective is an opportunity to change somebodyâ€™s mind, to change somebodyâ€™s thoughts, to change somebodyâ€™s attitudes, to change them. And a lot of times you got to begin with their attitudes. But thatâ€™s not where you end. You canâ€™t end with attitudes, because you have to end with behavior. Iâ€™ve known a lot of people that fully believe that they should not be beating their wife, and yet they canâ€™t stop because they havenâ€™t learned to stop doing thatâ€¦So the first step is to recognize that there is no excuse for an affair. If her husband were to tell me, every time I have an affair, I feel guilty, I feel like Iâ€™ve sinned against God, Iâ€™ve sinned against my wife, Iâ€™ve sinned against my children, Iâ€™m a horrible person to be doing this. Then I would say, â€œNow, what we have to do is create an environment where youâ€™re not going to have another affair. And itâ€™s going to be very restrictive, at least at first. Youâ€™re basically going to be watched 24 hours a day. Youâ€™re not going to be able to do and say what you want to say. Itâ€™s just like with helping a person overcome addiction to alcohol. You canâ€™t be working in a bar when you are trying to recover from being an alcoholic. This womanâ€™s husband says, â€œItâ€™s your fault that Iâ€™m having an affair.â€ And Iâ€™d say, â€œWhat can she do to get him to stop?â€ And the answer is â€œAbsolutely nothing. Thereâ€™s nothing she can do. She has to walk away. She has to turn her back and walk away from him. Otherwise, sheâ€™s going to continue to be hurt by him the rest of their lives. The same thing is true of men that beat their wives. The same thing is true with men or woman who are verbally abusive. The question is: â€œHow do I get my spouse to stop being abusive? How do I get my spouse to stop hurting me?â€ The answer is, â€œThereâ€™s nothing you can do. Itâ€™s all on the part of the person who is doing the damage.â€

I had to realize that the ball was in his court. There was nothing I could do to stop him from beating me up or cheating on me. It was all up to him. Yes, my calling the woman's husband was what resulted in exposure of the affair, but he still had to decide what he wanted.

Cherished

Penny,

I am very sorry to hear this latest. My thoughts are with you.

Cerri,

I am so surprised and saddened by this news. I know you have a lot of good friends and a lot of help from those one your site. I hope that you can get some sleep, something to eat, and that your H has enough brains to walk through the door you have left open. I am guessing that that door is through a counselor's office.

Please take care of yourself.

JL

[ February 05, 2005, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]

lol....and I though I was blunt!

If the shoe fits.......

That last post made me realize something.....

Cerri, maybe your husband just feels left out. I mean, you do seem to be pretty hung up on yourself. Everything you say is about "you, you, you".......what about him?

YOU are the professional, they are YOUR kids, YOU go to church (or place of worship), YOU are the educated one, YOU are the one hurting, YOU make the decisions, YOU are the one exposing him, YOU are the one who separated from him, YOU are the one making the boundaries, YOU are the one leaving the door open.........see what I mean?

Maybe he feels so left out of YOUR life that he needs to find other women to actually feel that he's wanted anywhere.

This whole time I have blamed your husband.......maybe he was just trying to feel wanted somewhere. It doesn't excuse his behavior, but could certainely explain it. I think maybe you should adress some control issues of your own and then see where things go, if you really want this marriage to work.

[ January 30, 2005, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: CaptialC ]

Hi Cerri!!

With the size of this thread, you may never read this post, but I just want to offer some encouragement anyway.

Please remember that your emotions have been just as raw as anyone's in this situation. Luckily, you have been able to talk with lots of good friends.

The only other thing I want to offer you is to get some rest. Few people can function with such a stressful situation on little rest. Sleep as much as you can & get some perspective. I will be sending some Christian prayers for you.

Cerri,

I sent you an e-mail about MKP! Thinking of you!!!

Stillwed

I respectfully ask those of you who want to pick fights with cerri to please hang up your gloves and cut our girl some slack.

Thanks...

GC

GC, respectfully, I have to disagree.

Every poster on this board is in the same kind of pain and same kind of situation. I thought of this during the tsunami in SE Asia. There were people in ordinary life in countries all over the world losing loved ones in the normal course of events and their losses were as real to them and as important to them as the thousands who died in the disaster.

I also found the use of obsenity extremely distasteful especially when it's not allowed on the **edit** board. We're edited on I-ville every day for the mildest of bad language and I thought it was extremely disrespectful to everyone here to start a thread with obsenity in it's title.

Jen

Penny also used foul language in her post at **edit** and she was moderated.

double post

[ January 31, 2005, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: neverenough ]

Cerri,

I am very sorry to hear of this terrible piece of news. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Capital C:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Cerri, maybe your husband just feels left out. I mean, you do seem to be pretty hung up on yourself. Everything you say is about "you, you, you".......what about him?

YOU are the professional, they are YOUR kids, YOU go to church (or place of worship), YOU are the educated one, YOU are the one hurting, YOU make the decisions, YOU are the one exposing him, YOU are the one who separated from him, YOU are the one making the boundaries, YOU are the one leaving the door open.........see what I mean?
<hr /></blockquote>And just WHO do you think should be making the decisons at this point? Cerri's husband is in a very emotionally unhealthy state right now. You want HIM to protect HER? You want him setting the boundaries? That would be laughable if it weren't such a serious situation.

Opinions I appreciate. Although,I remind you, they were unsolicited on this thread. More importantly, your post above is simply and profoundly CRUEL. NO ONE who has experienced the gut-wrenching pain of infidelity would ever ATTACK another in the middle of this kind of trauma.

I've read your other posts, CapitalC. Would you enlighten me as to how you can so forcefully demand that someone here give up on their marriage and yet YOU remain in a relationship where your husband lives off all the women in his life, smokes pot and plays Play Station all day? You say he's never been unfaithful..And just how do you know this with any kind of certainty? He's certainly not plugged into your marriage or your family life. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong.

Would it hurt to be a little kinder here?

Nat

So when I wake up at 3 am ill and shaking and having visions of my husband doing things with some stranger that should have been saved for me and then pulling his wet (uncondomed) body out of her. Bringing his laundry with her her..... on it here to my home to wash...... This is what I find.

I think I can cry now.

Thanks, MB, I knew I could count on you.

{{{{{cerri}}}}}

There will ALWAYS be insensitive people...

Many of us here are hurting right along with you... You and your family are in my prayers.

Semper Fi,
RIF

ba109 said the following:
quote:
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You will note that no where in my post did I ask for advice. I am a professional marriage coach and coach trainer.
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This really seems pretentious to me. A "professional" would not react to a poster in such a condescending manner. A professional would not lace a thread title and posts with obscenities.

ba109, I sort of expected this sort of thing from CaptialC, since she is brand new and really doesn't understand much yet, but you surprise me with your callousness.

It matters NOT if someone is a "professional" or not, or possibly even moreso because one is a professional with THEIR life hanging out there for all to see. INFIDELITY HURTS! Infidelity causes extreme emotional duress. Infidelity causes normally "sane" people to react in "insane" ways until they are able to get their feet back underneath them. But YOU would make no "allowance" for crazy times, for emotional reactions. No, you think a "professional" should be void of emotions and be a complete "Vulcan." Sorry, we are all HUMAN, and we all make mistakes of one magnitude or another.

One would THINK that if there is any group of people who would understand the "crazy times" of infidelity it would be here among people who have personally experienced it for themselves. They KNOW what it's like to react emotionally, out of extreme pain, anguish, and disbelief. But not ba109, not CapitalC.
quote:
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Let me know when you're up to date on the research - I always love a good intellectually stimulating conversation.

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A professional would not challenge another posters intellect nor would they flaunt their own.

ba109, excuse for the bluntness of THIS reply, because it IS "just my opinion" (as you ended your post); CapitalC jumps into this discussion with uninformed opinions and "brand new" to the whole concept of recovery from infidelity. CapitalC is obviously posting what SHE would do, because HER emotions are controlling, not logic and understanding, not compassion or forgiveness. Yet you seem to think that anyone who says something like; "why don't you wait until you are further down the road and have gained knowledge and experience before trying to "chastize" someone else and how they are handling their own personal he!! of betrayal, is "unprofessional" or "rude."

quote:
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My purpose in posting this here was to fulfill my agreement about exposing future infidelity in every communication channel available to me.
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So, you really could care less what anyone here thinks then. Your mission is accomplished. Why do you keep responding?

Because Cerri has every right to post here, for whatever reason, as do YOU and the rest of us. If you YOU don't like it, don't read it.

quote:
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Really - my personal motto is "I don't do nice," and this is NOT the day to push my buttons.
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Maybe you should stop this drama then, because you are really starting to show your ***.

No, Cerri is showing that she is human and can be hurt just like the rest of us. IF someone is showing their backside, you might want to consider the circumstances before jumping in to show yours with your own disrespectful judgments.

jmo

jmo, back at 'cha!

P.S. I wonder where WAT is and why he is "strangely" silent on something like this sort of direct frontal attack on someone else? Hmmmm....I wonder what's missing that tends to "trip Worthatry's trigger?"

[ January 31, 2005, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

ba...capital,

What each of you fail to understand is that someone can be a professional and have an upheaval, trauma, horror so devastating that it's the roles as wife, woman and mother that cry out in pain. How professional do you think a fireman is, when he's on fire....or a doctor when he's sick....or nurse when her child is dying....or a surgeon when his leg is cut off? In many ways, one must feel even MORE powerless when it's your job to save marriages and you are struggling to save your own.....especially, when you're being verbally chastised because you acted for a moment like a human being instead of just a professional.

It's a hard day when folks who don't even know you criticize you, or your professionalism is attacked....but when that day is also the day you find out your husband has had unprotected sex with a stranger...it must feel as though the whole world has turned inside out.

When you poke wounded animals....they bite.

Professional?? (Interesting demand)
I realize I don't know alot of what is going on here, and what someone's false expectation of a woman in pain is, but what I do know is that Cerri is fighting for her family, and that is all that matters. none of us can second guess that, and what she needs to do.
Anyone on her for not doing what they think she needs to do, needs to back off and take care of their own life.

When I read Cerri's post that had in the subject line:

"My husband ****** another woman"... I was in disbelief and shock that the moderator would allow that to be there.

And then I read on and she posted his name and address, as well as where he worked.

THAT WAS WRONG...No matter how hurt she was, THAT WAS WRONG.

And SO WHAT that she had said she would expose to the world; THAT ALSO WAS WRONG and very vindictive.

We can give THREATS that if someone does this or that we will do something, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do, does it?

Cerri, what you have done here is far from being 'professional' so quit BRAGGING that you ARE a professional...Even us 'REGULARS' would not publish our H's name and address.
I am glad you had the decency to delete it.
Just go ahead and hurt like us NORMAL people, and we will give you love and understanding.

This is my first post, however I have been following MB guidlines...I do not see where Harley suggests we publish in the newspaper for the world to see, our mates unfaithfulness...Show me where!

We all are hurting here or we wouldn't be here; but we still can be NICE, even to our cheating mates...I did promise for 'better or worse' with my husband and now is 'the worse'...I will not even give the details!

(Edited for spelling)

[ January 31, 2005, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

flowergirl,

Every Monday and Thursday afternoon at 1:00pm (CST) Dr. Harley is the featured guest on Joyce Harley's (his wife's) radio show, In Focus with Joyce Harley, which is aired from St. Paul, Minnesota on AM980 KKMS. One of his more famous quotes is: "Put it on the evening news!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Starfish - Does he really mean that, literally? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Flowergirl, et al,

I think Cerri left...she edited out most of her posts.

In case she comes back {{{{Cerri}}}}

NOW

starfish, <blockquote>quote:<hr /> It's a hard day when folks who don't even know you criticize you, or your professionalism is attacked.... <hr /></blockquote>My bluntness is often perceived as criticism. My sensitivity meter is not as calibrated as many others. My post is not critical, it is my POV of this disintegrating thread. Cerri has the power to end it before others start posting their POV also which you can see is already starting to get ugly.

Cerri, of all people, knows that negativity is bound to creep in as a thread grows. Cerri also knows that regardless of whether she asked for opinions or not, she is going to get them by default because of the arena that she posted in.

[ January 31, 2005, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: ba109 ]

Good Lord, do any of you people remember the utter agony you went through on Dday and the days following?!!!

Give Cerri some slack here. She's hurting!

She'll make her own decisions just like the rest of us in her own time.

{{{{{Hugs for Cerri}}}}}

Oops! My first double post.

[ January 31, 2005, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: TooOld4This ]

Reading through this thread, what I think of is something Harley has said to me on numerous occasions over the past three years: "The ball's in his court."

As a BS, I thought I was responsible for making him realize how badly he would hurt me if he had an affair, I felt guilty that I didn't follow Harley's advice to expose the affair two weeks after the first kiss, I ran around reading books and going to therapy and trying to find a marriage counselor that would work for us -- and you know what? -- I gave out. It's not that I truly believed that the ball was in his court. It's that, as Joyce Harley said on the radio in January 2003 "it's like pushing a wet noodle", I couldn't save my marriage with all the effort and exposure and commitment in the world. I gave out, and when my H pushed our 10 year old in October, that's when he decided to go to therapy. The ball was in his court. He had to recognize this was his problem.

Cerri, what I see is that you have worked hard and done what you could and now the ball is in his court. It seems to me that Plan B is about backing away until your spouse makes a commitment to care for you.
Cherished